For some reason I think this will be Nintendo's Dreamcast...
Unlikely.
First of all, Dreamcast only sold 10.6 million units and lasted all of three years. This is not going to happen with the Wii U.
Major differences include:
1. Negative publicity and devastating financial problems resulting from the failure of the Sega Saturn. The Wii, on the other hand, was an incredible success for Nintendo.
2. Competition. The Dreamcast had to contend with the PS2 and Gamecube. Right now, the Wii U has no competitors save the 3DS for the so-called "eighth console war," and while Microsoft is scheduled to release its X-Box 720 sometime between 2013-15, the Playstation 3 was supposed to be Sony's installment for this generation as well.
3. Adding on to this, the PS2's major draw was the fact that it also had a DVD player. There is no peripheral that is a real equivalent to this in terms of draw. The closest would be motion technology, a major source of the Wii's success, and it's been proven that Nintendo is the most successful at using this.
4. Lack of third party support. The Wii managed to succeed without third party support, and Nintendo has been courting third party support with the Wii U.
The Wii may have been an incredible success for Nintendo but aside from that the Wii U offers NOTHING in terms of ingenuity and innovation in comparison to it's current competition being the PS3 and XBOX 360. Part of the problem with the Wii was that it had a lack of hardcore gamer support as it catered to casual gamers much more often than in the N64 Era where you had a mixed variety of hardcore and casual at the time.
Another problem that Nintendo always seemed to have had since the late 90's was that they've been too focused on nostalgia over novelty games and when you focus too much on nostalgia in contrast to your competition you're going to lose sales and get shunned in favor of systems like the PS3 and XBOX 360 that hardly cater to casual gamers as much as the Wii U does.
I don't think Nintendo has anything left to offer on the console market as they favor more on the handheld market yet the irony of that is they've been hurting themselves on that criteria by region locking good handheld games for the 3DS outside Japan that would help boost their business. If there's anything that has helped Nintendo on the handheld market recently it's the Pokemon franchise cause it's quite literally the "Call of Duty" for casual gamers.
In terms of the handheld market, Nintendo's only competition is Sony with the PS Vita which is pretty good but has a slight advantage over Nintendo due to stupid region locking which is just as bad as Capcom's DLC shenanigans. I don't know why Nintendo insists on region locking and it seems like Sony might be following the same path with the PS Vita as well and what I find awkward especially in E3 2012 this year is that Microsoft doesn't have any interest in the handheld market as much as they do in the console market.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
The Wii may have been an incredible success for Nintendo but aside from that the Wii U offers NOTHING in terms of ingenuity and innovation in comparison to it's current competition being the PS3 and XBOX 360. Part of the problem with the Wii was that it had a lack of hardcore gamer support as it catered to casual gamers much more often than in the N64 Era where you had a mixed variety of hardcore and casual at the time.
I see this criticism leveled a lot, but the new control is actually really innovative. I expected it to be gimmicky, and I suppose like anything it can be, but Nintendo Land used it in some pretty interesting ways.
I'm not sure if you ever played Pac-Man VS back in the day (in my group we only played it a handful of times because how difficult it was to get all the accessories together, but we still think of it as one of the most gaming experiences we've ever had), but the screen essentially allows you to play that kind of game all the time.
Another problem that Nintendo always seemed to have had since the late 90's was that they've been too focused on nostalgia over novelty games and when you focus too much on nostalgia in contrast to your competition you're going to lose sales and get shunned in favor of systems like the PS3 and XBOX 360 that hardly cater to casual gamers as much as the Wii U does.
While I don't agree with your conclusion, your assessment is correct in that Nintendo has been banking too much on Nostalgia, to the point where Skyward Sword and some other recent games have suffered.
However, there will always be a market for a platforming Mario game. Let's not kid ourselves.
I don't think Nintendo has anything left to offer on the console market as they favor more on the handheld market yet the irony of that is they've been hurting themselves on that criteria by region locking good handheld games for the 3DS outside Japan that would help boost their business. If there's anything that has helped Nintendo on the handheld market recently it's the Pokemon franchise cause it's quite literally the "Call of Duty" for casual gamers.
[/quote]
I don't think region-locking particularly hurts their business. It sucks for people who want to play imports (like Jump Superstars, the only import I've ever seen make it to retail shelves here), but ultimately the people who would do it are a small minority.
I think your criticisms, while a little extreme, are not entirely unfounded. Nintendo does have problems, and they are early out of the gate again this time. I don't think they'll be replicating the Wii's success, where the decision of what to buy was always what to buy in addition to the Wii, but I don't think the Wii U is going to be a slouch, either. I had the same opinion of the Wii when it came out, that it was jumping the shark, gimmicky, etc, and I was proven wrong. The biggest problem I have with your argument is that it's literally the same argument that has surrounded the last 4 Nintendo consoles. "N64 can't compete with the Playstation... and it's going to get killed by the Dreamcast... why won't they use discs?" "The Gamecube was vastly outsold by the PS2 and Nintendo is going to stop development of Consoles." "The Wii is gimmicky and will never stand up against real consoles."
Having been around for all of them, I just feel like ruling Nintendo out is like ruling out Rocky for the win. Whether or not the Wii U is going to be Rocky 5 or not (the one everyone likes to pretend doesn't exist), we'll see.
Microsoft sees the writing on the wall that the handheld market is hemorrhaging due to the rise of smartphones. Microsoft is concentrating on that, not making some dedicated handheld, as the market will not support 3 different handhelds. Heck, it barely supports two, though it might as well be one outside of Japan, with the 2nd console being the PSP, as it continues to dominate the Vita in sales in Japan.
The Vita has no advantages over the 3DS because it lacks any truly remarkable games. The vast majority of the Vita's games are just essentially ports of PS3 games. There is truly nothing innovative on the system that would make people want to buy it. Yes the Vita has the 2nd Thumbstick... but quite honestly, the Thumbnubs on the Vita are horribly undersized, whereas the 3ds one is quite large and concave, so that your thumb doesn't slip.
But the Wii U lacking in ingenuity and innovation? The tablet controller is innovation and a control input that has never been done before on home consoles. Nintendo once again managed to design and market a console that people didn't know they wanted until they created it. Nintendo is creating a market where one previously did not exist. The Wii U is Nintendo's attempt to be a best of both worlds model, where it continues to dominate the new market it carved out while stealing the established market.
I'll say this: its going to be an extremely difficult sale to the new market as to why they would want to buy a Wii U. The Wii does everything the Wii U does and the Wii has Wii Sports. However I think that Nintendo realized this and decided on the Tablet controller, because a Tablet is something that is familiar and far less intimidating than a regular controller. If Nintendo is successful at maintaining its new market share, it will be the Tablet controller that is the reason.
Of course Nintendo will continue to be a viable company, because they don't sell consoles at a loss. Not to mention that Nintendo doesn't have to pay fees to 3rd parts companies to use DVD or Blu-Ray technology.
The Wii may have been an incredible success for Nintendo but aside from that the Wii U offers NOTHING in terms of ingenuity and innovation in comparison to it's current competition being the PS3 and XBOX 360.
What are you talking about?
The PS3 and the XBox 360 are innovative? All they've done is more of the same. That's why the Wii kicked their asses and compelled Sony and Microsoft to create lackluster efforts in motion control which will probably end up resulting in a large loss for them.
The Wii U offers something very new with its new control scheme, which combines motion control, a second screen like the DS, and traditional control scheme. I expect to see amazing things come out of the Wii U.
Criticize Nintendo if you want, they've made their share of mistakes, but innovation should not be one of them.
I've also been hearing good things about Nintendo's new online strategy. Which, of course, they're really late to the party for. But they're supposed to be doing new things and addressing some of the ways they were behind, so I'm cautiously optimistic.
I'll say this: its going to be an extremely difficult sale to the new market as to why they would want to buy a Wii U.
I don't think the Wii U vs. Wii comparison is hard. It has the tablet and it has HD and is just a stronger machine and so forth.
I think the problem is that the possibilities of the GamePad are much harder to sell in a commercial than the motion control of the Wii was.
Of course Nintendo will continue to be a viable company, because they don't sell consoles at a loss.
After the price cut, the 3DS was being sold at a loss (I think they have returned to selling it at a profit as costs came down).
The Wii U is being sold at a loss right now, mostly because of the GamePad. The lack of DVD or Blu-Ray, however, minimizes that loss. It will work with Netflix, Hulu, YouTube and Amazon though.
Nintendo is probably in for another year of disappointing profits because of that, but I'm optimistic about their chances. They've sold 22 million 3DS's and while I'm not expecting the Wii U to be the blockbuster that the Wii was, I still am excited for the possibilities. Even if they don't end up on top again like with the Wii, that doesn't mean they'll really be in trouble (the GameCube was a profitable console for them, even while it had relatively low market share).
The only problem is that I wish I was excited for a new Metroid, 3D Mario, Mario Kart, new IP, Zelda, or what have you. I know there's a Smash Bros coming of course. I just hope there'll be something huge out by summer 2013, which will be my prime gaming time.
I am eagerly awaiting Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate. And ZombiU is a pretty worthwhile game, and probably one of the best survival horrors I have played in a long time.
What I would really like to see on the Wii U, would be a console Pokemon game. I would literally shove money into the pockets on Game Freak and Nintendo if such a thing came into existence. I'm not talking about Snap, or Colleseum, I'm talking about an actual, full fledged pokemanz game.
The Wii may have been an incredible success for Nintendo but aside from that the Wii U offers NOTHING in terms of ingenuity and innovation in comparison to it's current competition being the PS3 and XBOX 360. Part of the problem with the Wii was that it had a lack of hardcore gamer support as it catered to casual gamers much more often than in the N64 Era where you had a mixed variety of hardcore and casual at the time.
Another problem that Nintendo always seemed to have had since the late 90's was that they've been too focused on nostalgia over novelty games and when you focus too much on nostalgia in contrast to your competition you're going to lose sales and get shunned in favor of systems like the PS3 and XBOX 360 that hardly cater to casual gamers as much as the Wii U does.
I don't think Nintendo has anything left to offer on the console market as they favor more on the handheld market yet the irony of that is they've been hurting themselves on that criteria by region locking good handheld games for the 3DS outside Japan that would help boost their business. If there's anything that has helped Nintendo on the handheld market recently it's the Pokemon franchise cause it's quite literally the "Call of Duty" for casual gamers.
In terms of the handheld market, Nintendo's only competition is Sony with the PS Vita which is pretty good but has a slight advantage over Nintendo due to stupid region locking which is just as bad as Capcom's DLC shenanigans. I don't know why Nintendo insists on region locking and it seems like Sony might be following the same path with the PS Vita as well and what I find awkward especially in E3 2012 this year is that Microsoft doesn't have any interest in the handheld market as much as they do in the console market.
Nintendo's new IPs have a sizable lead over the older ones as far as the Wii is concerned. The 3DS is more brand heavy with Mario and Monster Hunter.
As far as the second point, when serious attempts have been made, like, say, Resident Evil 4, players have responded. Curiously this doesn't seem to have happened with porting Wii staples to PS3.
Import sales are pretty much a non-factor. The really zealous superfans will import and/or mod a system in the first place.
To all the naysayers, Nintendo is doing something correctly that cannot be denied: Turning profit. If the big N were losing money, I could see the possibility of their fall, but since N is making a ton of money doing what it does, I don't see any problems in their future, which is good for fan-men like myself, as we always get more Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, and all of their other marquee titles.
The Wii U apparently is not sold at a very large loss. Since it apparently turns a profit after a customer buys their first game (and this may also apply to accessories and extra controllers in that case) it must be being sold at near cost.
I'm not too worried about the Wii U getting off the ground. It might be slow to start or have a smaller user base like the GameCube, but I'm sure it'll be fine. Combine that with 22 million 3DS's sold so far, and I wouldn't be too worried about Nintendo's long-term profitability.
They've been in the red for the last three quarters I believe, and they're selling the Wii U at a loss. But they're moving towards profits again, and doing a lot better than Sony, from a monetary perspective.
Sony's main problem is its reluctance to axe the worst aspects of their business.
If they would stop production on Sony televisions starting tomorrow that would be a huge step forward on profitability.
Nintendo Land has been great, taking me back to the Smash Brothers/Goldeneye days of local multiplayer in high school. Asynchronous multiplayer with the GamePad is a lot of fun, and there are some cool new directions it could be developed in. Otherwise, been doing Assassin's Creed 3 and Trine 2, both are a lot of fun and have good implementation of the GamePad screen, but I'm excited to see what can be done for games that are more designed for it. Read the "Ask Iwata" about ZombiU, sounded like they had some great ideas, although the genre doesn't really appeal to me.
Nintendo Land has been great, taking me back to the Smash Brothers/Goldeneye days of local multiplayer in high school. Asynchronous multiplayer with the GamePad is a lot of fun, and there are some cool new directions it could be developed in. Otherwise, been doing Assassin's Creed 3 and Trine 2, both are a lot of fun and have good implementation of the GamePad screen, but I'm excited to see what can be done for games that are more designed for it. Read the "Ask Iwata" about ZombiU, sounded like they had some great ideas, although the genre doesn't really appeal to me.
How is AC3 on the Wii U? I might want to get a Wii U to play Zombi U and maybe AC3, but I already have a PS3.
Also, I went shopping after Black Friday and there were still plenty of Wii Us in stores. I don't know if it's not selling as well as the Wii or if Nintendo anticipated demand and produced more.
Allegedly it sold better than the Wii originally did, but it didn't sell as much as Xbox 360 or PS3 during the Thanksgiving week. The numbers I heard were 400,000 Wii U and 300,000 Wii (surprising) vs 750,000 Xbox and like 500,000 or something PS3, I forget the exact numbers there.
I haven't actually played Assassin's Creed on any other system, I'm just starting the series, so I'm not very good for comparison, but it's been running quickly enough, looks great, and it's nice to have the map always available on the GamePad.
I'm surprising my family Christmas morning with a Wii U Bundle. I'm hearing that there is a firmware upgrade that takes quite some time to install. Is this correct? If so how long does it take? (I'm thinking of opening the box and doing the upgrade before Xmas morning) Also does it need to be downloaded? We get our internet through WiFi hotspot card and I don't think that thing can handle something like that (firmware download).
Unlikely.
First of all, Dreamcast only sold 10.6 million units and lasted all of three years. This is not going to happen with the Wii U.
Major differences include:
1. Negative publicity and devastating financial problems resulting from the failure of the Sega Saturn. The Wii, on the other hand, was an incredible success for Nintendo.
2. Competition. The Dreamcast had to contend with the PS2 and Gamecube. Right now, the Wii U has no competitors save the 3DS for the so-called "eighth console war," and while Microsoft is scheduled to release its X-Box 720 sometime between 2013-15, the Playstation 3 was supposed to be Sony's installment for this generation as well.
3. Adding on to this, the PS2's major draw was the fact that it also had a DVD player. There is no peripheral that is a real equivalent to this in terms of draw. The closest would be motion technology, a major source of the Wii's success, and it's been proven that Nintendo is the most successful at using this.
4. Lack of third party support. The Wii managed to succeed without third party support, and Nintendo has been courting third party support with the Wii U.
Another problem that Nintendo always seemed to have had since the late 90's was that they've been too focused on nostalgia over novelty games and when you focus too much on nostalgia in contrast to your competition you're going to lose sales and get shunned in favor of systems like the PS3 and XBOX 360 that hardly cater to casual gamers as much as the Wii U does.
I don't think Nintendo has anything left to offer on the console market as they favor more on the handheld market yet the irony of that is they've been hurting themselves on that criteria by region locking good handheld games for the 3DS outside Japan that would help boost their business. If there's anything that has helped Nintendo on the handheld market recently it's the Pokemon franchise cause it's quite literally the "Call of Duty" for casual gamers.
In terms of the handheld market, Nintendo's only competition is Sony with the PS Vita which is pretty good but has a slight advantage over Nintendo due to stupid region locking which is just as bad as Capcom's DLC shenanigans. I don't know why Nintendo insists on region locking and it seems like Sony might be following the same path with the PS Vita as well and what I find awkward especially in E3 2012 this year is that Microsoft doesn't have any interest in the handheld market as much as they do in the console market.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
People have been saying that since the Gamecube, though.
I see this criticism leveled a lot, but the new control is actually really innovative. I expected it to be gimmicky, and I suppose like anything it can be, but Nintendo Land used it in some pretty interesting ways.
I'm not sure if you ever played Pac-Man VS back in the day (in my group we only played it a handful of times because how difficult it was to get all the accessories together, but we still think of it as one of the most gaming experiences we've ever had), but the screen essentially allows you to play that kind of game all the time.
While I don't agree with your conclusion, your assessment is correct in that Nintendo has been banking too much on Nostalgia, to the point where Skyward Sword and some other recent games have suffered.
However, there will always be a market for a platforming Mario game. Let's not kid ourselves.
[/quote]
I don't think region-locking particularly hurts their business. It sucks for people who want to play imports (like Jump Superstars, the only import I've ever seen make it to retail shelves here), but ultimately the people who would do it are a small minority.
I think your criticisms, while a little extreme, are not entirely unfounded. Nintendo does have problems, and they are early out of the gate again this time. I don't think they'll be replicating the Wii's success, where the decision of what to buy was always what to buy in addition to the Wii, but I don't think the Wii U is going to be a slouch, either. I had the same opinion of the Wii when it came out, that it was jumping the shark, gimmicky, etc, and I was proven wrong. The biggest problem I have with your argument is that it's literally the same argument that has surrounded the last 4 Nintendo consoles. "N64 can't compete with the Playstation... and it's going to get killed by the Dreamcast... why won't they use discs?" "The Gamecube was vastly outsold by the PS2 and Nintendo is going to stop development of Consoles." "The Wii is gimmicky and will never stand up against real consoles."
Having been around for all of them, I just feel like ruling Nintendo out is like ruling out Rocky for the win. Whether or not the Wii U is going to be Rocky 5 or not (the one everyone likes to pretend doesn't exist), we'll see.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
The Vita has no advantages over the 3DS because it lacks any truly remarkable games. The vast majority of the Vita's games are just essentially ports of PS3 games. There is truly nothing innovative on the system that would make people want to buy it. Yes the Vita has the 2nd Thumbstick... but quite honestly, the Thumbnubs on the Vita are horribly undersized, whereas the 3ds one is quite large and concave, so that your thumb doesn't slip.
But the Wii U lacking in ingenuity and innovation? The tablet controller is innovation and a control input that has never been done before on home consoles. Nintendo once again managed to design and market a console that people didn't know they wanted until they created it. Nintendo is creating a market where one previously did not exist. The Wii U is Nintendo's attempt to be a best of both worlds model, where it continues to dominate the new market it carved out while stealing the established market.
I'll say this: its going to be an extremely difficult sale to the new market as to why they would want to buy a Wii U. The Wii does everything the Wii U does and the Wii has Wii Sports. However I think that Nintendo realized this and decided on the Tablet controller, because a Tablet is something that is familiar and far less intimidating than a regular controller. If Nintendo is successful at maintaining its new market share, it will be the Tablet controller that is the reason.
Of course Nintendo will continue to be a viable company, because they don't sell consoles at a loss. Not to mention that Nintendo doesn't have to pay fees to 3rd parts companies to use DVD or Blu-Ray technology.
What are you talking about?
The PS3 and the XBox 360 are innovative? All they've done is more of the same. That's why the Wii kicked their asses and compelled Sony and Microsoft to create lackluster efforts in motion control which will probably end up resulting in a large loss for them.
The Wii U offers something very new with its new control scheme, which combines motion control, a second screen like the DS, and traditional control scheme. I expect to see amazing things come out of the Wii U.
Criticize Nintendo if you want, they've made their share of mistakes, but innovation should not be one of them.
I don't think the Wii U vs. Wii comparison is hard. It has the tablet and it has HD and is just a stronger machine and so forth.
I think the problem is that the possibilities of the GamePad are much harder to sell in a commercial than the motion control of the Wii was.
After the price cut, the 3DS was being sold at a loss (I think they have returned to selling it at a profit as costs came down).
The Wii U is being sold at a loss right now, mostly because of the GamePad. The lack of DVD or Blu-Ray, however, minimizes that loss. It will work with Netflix, Hulu, YouTube and Amazon though.
Nintendo is probably in for another year of disappointing profits because of that, but I'm optimistic about their chances. They've sold 22 million 3DS's and while I'm not expecting the Wii U to be the blockbuster that the Wii was, I still am excited for the possibilities. Even if they don't end up on top again like with the Wii, that doesn't mean they'll really be in trouble (the GameCube was a profitable console for them, even while it had relatively low market share).
The only problem is that I wish I was excited for a new Metroid, 3D Mario, Mario Kart, new IP, Zelda, or what have you. I know there's a Smash Bros coming of course. I just hope there'll be something huge out by summer 2013, which will be my prime gaming time.
What I would really like to see on the Wii U, would be a console Pokemon game. I would literally shove money into the pockets on Game Freak and Nintendo if such a thing came into existence. I'm not talking about Snap, or Colleseum, I'm talking about an actual, full fledged pokemanz game.
Nintendo's new IPs have a sizable lead over the older ones as far as the Wii is concerned. The 3DS is more brand heavy with Mario and Monster Hunter.
As far as the second point, when serious attempts have been made, like, say, Resident Evil 4, players have responded. Curiously this doesn't seem to have happened with porting Wii staples to PS3.
Import sales are pretty much a non-factor. The really zealous superfans will import and/or mod a system in the first place.
I'm not too worried about the Wii U getting off the ground. It might be slow to start or have a smaller user base like the GameCube, but I'm sure it'll be fine. Combine that with 22 million 3DS's sold so far, and I wouldn't be too worried about Nintendo's long-term profitability.
Sony's main problem is its reluctance to axe the worst aspects of their business.
If they would stop production on Sony televisions starting tomorrow that would be a huge step forward on profitability.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
Also, I went shopping after Black Friday and there were still plenty of Wii Us in stores. I don't know if it's not selling as well as the Wii or if Nintendo anticipated demand and produced more.
I haven't actually played Assassin's Creed on any other system, I'm just starting the series, so I'm not very good for comparison, but it's been running quickly enough, looks great, and it's nice to have the map always available on the GamePad.
Mabbz on MTGO | Demgrinds on Twitch & Twitter | Helpdesk
GWBKarador, Necrotic Ooze SubthemeBWG
Hopefully they make use of this technology for the inevitable Zelda game for the Wii U.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
http://www.destructoid.com/npd-wii-u-sold-a-paltry-55-000-units-in-january-245028.phtml
- fairly poorly...