That just might be a good reason for us not to go out, being that he could be sent to jail for pedophilia, but... all he's guilty of is 'loving too much', right?
Nope, pretty sure he'd be guilty of statutory rape.
Personally, I've never seen the attraction to being with someone much older/younger than yourself. And I think it's ever further problematic in your teens, where every year makes a lot more of a difference in terms of where an individual is at in their life.
Hey, just keep trying. Love is really, really tough. At least the guy you like isn't leaving high school in five days x_x
I had a relationship sorta like that a few years ago. I think a lot of it has to do with them being comfortable in their skin, and not being worried about the consequences. As a senior, he's probably thinking one of two things: He has a few days left of school, so it wouldn't matter if he came out. Or, he has a few days left of school and he doesn't want to be abandoned by his friends. The age difference might be a little weird for him, too.
I had a relationship sorta like that a few years ago. I think a lot of it has to do with them being comfortable in their skin, and not being worried about the consequences. As a senior, he's probably thinking one of two things: He has a few days left of school, so it wouldn't matter if he came out. Or, he has a few days left of school and he doesn't want to be abandoned by his friends. The age difference might be a little weird for him, too.
Oh, he came out like, junior year. So before I even knew him. I think I remember him saying that age was the big reason. But whatevah.
Edit: Oh, here is an interesting tidbit that is completely normal to me but shocking to everyone I say it to: We go to an all boy's school. Paradise.
Maturity really is more important than age, I think. It comes out more online, where, since a lot of the time age is anonymous, people assume your age matches your maturity level.
A lot of people mistake me, for, like, a thirty-year-old woman on the internet. It's slightly unsettling.
EDIT: My profile picture is totally of me now!
WEIRD, RIGHT?
Awkward! I was joking about the 'loving too much' thing. It's a Michael Jackson reference. Yeah, even if he wanted to I probably wouldn't let him go through with anything, because I couldn't stand the thought of anyone I know being put in jail.
I saw him at a party today, and later I started crying. Not like the miserable crying, but like, the shedding an old skin and starting anew crying. We had a lot of fun, but it's just so weird to see my first love go.
Edit: Tuatha, is your banner from Wicked? I'm going to see it for the first time in a month or two.
Well, what I was saying is, if you act immature, it'll likely be assumed you're younger, and vice-versa.
Perhaps that isn't true in all online communities, but how often is a poor typist compared, for example, to a thirty-year-old?
It's always eleven or twelve. Or usually, at any rate.
That story is insane. I don't really have any other words. Couldn't he have just SAID he wasn't going to do it?
People today...the internet makes it too easy to back out of something, because there's no repercussions.
Well, I daresay even neurology isn't set in stone. However, I wonder how much would be required to alter such a thing, especially considering how difficult it appears to be to "change back." Perhaps it could be something that influences brain development in early infancy, but that seems very loosely founded as a theory.
Well it depends on what aspect of neurology we're talking about. Nerves, for example, almost never undergo mitosis and if the connection between a part of the body and the brain is injured, it will take a very long time for the nerves to re-establish feeling because they don't have the same genes active which give them "guidance" how to grow as in early development - so you end up with haphazard randomness.
Interactions in the brain are subtler, admittedly. I guess I question the idea of neural development taking such a different route in a post-natal state, because there doesn't seem to be much of an explainable reason or cause for the change or fork. It suggests at a separate relationship, but that's just based off my current knowledge which is in no way definitive. Still makes me wonder, though, why would some children be queer when others were transgendered if it's from the same stem?
Yes. Much of Catholic theology and morality seems contingent on implicit ideas about appropriateness - some things are only good in some contexts, and in no others. It is largely based on the premise that the early founders of the Church were essentially infallible, and they use this as base material to verify their operations as a Church. This seems to be meant to "break the tie" when it comes to disagreements among Christendom about how to appropriately interpret the Bible.
Ha, yes.
I kind of like that. Not only we have to concede that the Bible itself is infallible, but indeed those who chose which books were canonically part of the Bible must have similarly been an infallible process, especially considering all of the apocrypha and pseudepigrapha floating around at the time. Really modern day Christianity is nothing more than the theological prevalence of the idea of Jesus as divine as opposed to Jesus being human... and as with so many things, one was more common than the other because it was more intellectually simple and easier to proselytize to the masses. It is so often the case that religion wins over mysticism because humanity is unfailingly and reliably stupid.
I have to say I have in many ways sided with the theology of Orthodox Christianity over the Roman Catholic Church. But that's like saying I agree with Mahayana Buddhism over Theravada... since I don't agree with either religion, ultimately, it's kind of meaningless.
The Church has definitely capitalized on the human need for a strong authority figure. Fabricated authority seems pretty repugnant to me, but I guess all you have to say is that it really comes from G-d to get people to succumb to your will and tithe to you. I'm surprised that the Orzhov guild didn't cause any kind of controversy, but then, that would be a kind of implied guilt if it did, wouldn't it? In the book I'm writing, one of the antagonistic entities is the "Imperial Church," and I've wondered sometimes if that won't draw criticism from types like William Donohue. But I suspect most Christians will assume the writing is a positive Christian allegory...
What I find troubling is that this appears to be not only their chiefest standard for such measurement, but their only one (in effect). As I see it, that's not nearly good enough, especially considering how much influence the Church has on everyday people. That's a lot of responsibility.
Dominionists I've encountered all seem to think, more or less, that society would benefit from being of a "Christian" nature. I'm not sure how exactly it could be, and they certainly don't provide any evidence as to why. To the contrary, all you have to do is look at their abusive families and more visible cult practices to see the opposite is true. I've met too many "survivors" with PTSD to think that the increasing parallel economy of extremist Christians is in any way harmless or deserving of tolerance.
Yes. I often think of it as the "give a man a fish" scenario. What we need is a workable, exoteric system to determine morality.
Definitely. And by system, hopefully something more coherent and substantive than "look in the Good Book!"
I wonder if the bulk of society really couldn't be kept under control if not for the concepts of eternal rewards and punishments after death. A lot of theologians seem to think that these ideas are intrinsically linked to justice. It's really sad when you're mind is so warped that your only idea of justice is for in every instance the punishment not fit the crime.
Although I must say the deeper your delve into morality in Christianity the more you do uncover about a pre-existing system. Really I think it is derived from Roman law, and some of that legalism starts to spurt through. For example, the idea that Jesus had to "pay" for the sin of humanity by dying. It's definitely reminiscent of something.
If I may say so, this is a form of moral absolutionism, only in a broader sense than the more traditional morally absolutionist systems. The moral relativistic stance is that all morality is totally subjective, that no definition, value, or norm has any objective merit, and no rason for adoption other than personal preference. Moral absolutionism, in a very basic sense, is the notion that morality is somehow objectively quatifiable, or that there are objectively meritous values or norms.
Looking at things this way, "good" or "bad" aren't effusive intangibles, but shorthands describing levels of fitness to an overall system of moral theory - presumably, moral truths.
Deontology, ideally, is a kind of practical condensation of these theories, which are designed for utilitarian purposes. We can't have a perfect casuistry, and in many cases, measuring the apparent utility of a certain action in a situation might be immoral - such as situations dealing with human dignity, etc. I think part of this has to do with how we end up defining "utility."
I basically agree with you. As you say, entities do not so much have a moral quality in this sense, but actions do. Saying a person is good is more of a shortened way of saying that person tends towards good actions. This is more effective as a moral system, I agree, than a legal one. Legal systems almost universally need to be concerned with observable social utility, including social order, which I think is simpler than the more subtle, overarcing moral goals.
I guess I would term it moral objectivism. Of course, objectivity and the absolute are fairly equivalent terms, but with the absolute in morality I think there is a slight connotation of difference than my set of beliefs. Or, at least, I think of moral absolutism as proposing that you can name a set of actions that are moral and a set of actions that are immoral and this is always the case. I think this is untrue. Every action has the potential for moral consequence, but its morality cannot be discerned before the impact of the action has been created. The same action can be moral in one situation and immoral in a different one. I don't think moral absolutism has room for this distinction, even though it to treats in objectivity.
Yes, I think that is often true. Many of the arguments I've seen have been reasoned and understandable, and yet a lot of the time I get the sense that they act more like excuses to justify the bias of the person arguing them.
As with other things. It tends to be a dead giveaway when they continue to rely on the justification despite its logical refutation.
With homosexuality, I don't think it's so much that to them it is immoral as that they want it to be. And they'll accept any kind of paradigm that allows for this constant. Unfortunately, reality isn't really that flexible.
Especially in the case of some norms. I've argued that about the Church's stance on homosexuality. I think that not only is there little merit to their contentions with homosexual behavior, but there are merits to opposing those contentions. The prescriptions they give for homosexuals aren't healthy, and have almost no practical cause. As such, I couldn't, in good consience, ever agree with them.
I agree.
Honestly, the idea of celibacy doesn't personally bother me that much. Under different circumstances, I might consider it. But I wouldn't be celibate simply because of someone else's ideas of how immoral the alternative would be for me, because I simply disagree with those notions. In the same way, I also disagree with the idea of obeisance. And so, even though I find the idea appealing, I could never be a monk.
Unfortunately, many Christians seem to be fine with a basically authoritarian morality. That's distressing.
It's a need for them.
I think having an authority of some kind is a way of feeling secure and keeping equilibrium. It may be that, deep down, they're really just children that were too sheltered to ever really be self-dependent. The idea of leading their own lives and having personal responsibility and accountability for their own actions must be terrifying. The fires of damnation is the only thing that really keeps them in line. Frankly, I find that more immoral that those that are committing the "sins"!
True. And, as you say, in many cases we may not really have much awareness as to what realistically consitutes equality or inequality in a given context.
So it would seem. Equality can be a good thing, but it can be taken to an extreme as many things. I think we see a lot of this in the White vs. Red conflict. White provides equality to people, which can be really helpful, and other times, not. Red, conversely, provides freedom, but in the lack of equality the strong can exploit the weak. I suppose in a sense equality and liberty are at opposing axes, and society needs a balance of them, or we result in authoritarian communism versus anarchy. Neither is particularly appealing.
For me, the only ones I care about, mainly, are my parents. I'm aware that I have other family that I've largely become estranged from because I feel kind of alienated (considering my being transgender might be anathemic to them), but I've come to terms with that. My immediate family are who I'm concerned about. The only ones who don't know are my parents, and that's only because I haven't started any hormone replacement or anything yet. In honesty, I figure that it should be pretty obvious to them that I'm not really a guy. Though, they're used to me, and don't know much about trans people.
Hmm.
My parents know, and they found out about it before I wanted them to. Actually, my plan was to move away after high school, go to some far away college and never speak to them again. I figured that they would disown me, so I was determined to disown them first.
Once they found out, they did not disown me, however. My father was disappointed, because I'm the only one who can "pass on the family name" in the traditional sense. Over time they became accepting and it wasn't a big deal. They even became liberal democrats.
It's the more extended parts of my family that don't know, such as my grandparents. My grandfather actually just gave me a car, to my complete astonishment, and I think he might retract the gift if he knew. There's no way to know, though. He once paid a girlfriend of my uncle several thousand dollars to leave him, so he's definitely the type to be overly controlling.
I get that. I sometimes feel like I bring up my status too much online, because I have little opportunity with most conversations to talk about that. However, this may be because it's such a central conflict in my life, and tends to impact many areas of my daily existence. I certainly hope I don't appear to bring it up constantly. Although, in ways that apply to something I'd be talking about anyway (such as work, clothing, religion, social gatherings, etc), I'd think it would be understandable and appropriate.
I think I was mostly bothered by the superficial nature of the conversations that I had with people. I didn't want people to think of me as shallow and having no depth or class.
And I kind of wanted to know if people would find me as interesting if my sexuality never came up. I think when you're an adolescent and forming so much of your identity, being defined by just a single trait is kind of scary. I'm still kind of in an identity crisis now, and I imagine it will take me quite some time to really know myself.
That seems wise. I try to take a gentle approach when trying to change myself, and that seems to be advocated. Discipline is surely appropriate, but adding undue pressure to yourself or beating yourself up tend to be detrimental, I think.
You're probably right.
I used to not be concerned with it, figuring that it would go away as I got older. As I began to notice more adults with the same problems, I think I started to panic a bit.
I always find it invigorating and enjoyable when I do get up and do something productive. Maybe you just have to do it often enough that the feeling of accomplishment can motivate you.
I'm that way, so I understand. I feel I tend to be more expressive and less guarded of my feelings online. However, I do tend to be more guarded about personal facts, even just names. Though I'm a bit guarded about those, anyway.
Anonymity and physical distance can make one feel a lot more safe, at least if my experience is any indication.
I think, for me, it's nice to interact with people in an environment where it is difficult, if not impossible, to have preconceived notions about a person. I want to be known purely for my ideas, intelligence and what I have to say, not for being eccentric or withdrawn.
I bet loners connect more often than not. I've tended to be kind of aloof and introverted, and yet occasionaly met someone who seemed similar and found a very deep connection.
That may be. I guess from my perspective, it seems like everyone else pushes me away that I've neglected to notice how I do the same.
There have been times when I have wanted to be friends with someone, but they just found me annoying or trivial. I've probably become cynical about it.
You're not alone in that. I hate going outside by myself for an extended period (unless it's, like, in the country on a bright day). I almost can't cross a street by myself without getting anxious. At times I do feel like I'm being childish, but it can really get me stirred up. As I'm sure you can understand.
Oh yes, and I can't stand scary movies! Although I could personally write a very mean horror novel. I guess I'm unaffected by the disturbing content of my own mind.
I have this bizarre fear of serial killers, and I really hate to be alone at night, even though I am most of the time.
I should probably invest in a firearm or something. Or, maybe not.
That is cute. But I know what you mean. That can make one feel kind of self-conscious and burdensome, even if that's not the case. I figure I'd probably be pretty high maintenance, too. I think that, in the context of a romantic relationship especially, I'd have what might be called "special needs."
Heh.
I think he likes to think of himself as being a protector figure. My special needs seem to play into his of needing to be needed. He hasn't complained so far, so maybe he likes doing it. He'll roll his eyes at me if I ask him to carry me around, though. That's probably because he knows that's more laziness than anything.
I don't mind touchy feely people as long as they don't take a lot of liberties. There's this guy at work who touches me (and, I assume, others) in ways I don't like. You know how some people will softly press your shoulder or arm when they want your attention, or are moving beside you and want to alert you of their presence? He does that, only more so. He touches people (well, me at least) in other places, like lower back and so forth, that I consider to be quite personal areas. Plus, he does random things like poke me on the back of the neck (which I also consider to be a fairly personal area), or smack me on the shoulder.
This bothers me, and I always find it jarring. In the case of people who are more respectful (such as the nice guy I mentioned earlier), I don't mind.
Hmm.
I'm probably too imperious for anyone to try that with me. Maybe you should try looking mean.
Really? That doesn't sound strange to me. Did you ever used to get yourself hurt a lot because of you energy, or because of being excited?
No, not physically, anyway.
My way of dealing with it was to be hyper and obnoxious in public. Doing things like, you know, tickling people a lot and being really annoying.
I think the fact that I got this way around people really contributed to a negative self image because I didn't want to be that way but I couldn't seem to help it. So now, I go out of my way to be really serious and under control, and I've perhaps hit the other extreme.
Being in the military really puts a hamper on me trying to talk a bout my sexuality in a general conversation or coming out. I never really had the need to talk about my "gayness" to anyone really, other than those i feel should know, like my best friends and family. Yes thats an awkward situation and really dont like talking about sex with my parents. The only reason I would even tell them is because I dont want them not knowing who I really am. I want them to no im that im in a relationship with someone i love and i want them to meet them , I plan on telling my parents the next time i come home which will be in september, I think it'll will be best in person as opposed to a phone call.
Good luck!
I think with me I sort of came out with a vengeance. Instead of denying who I was, I affirmed it... overtly and aggressively. It lead to a whole other set of problems, but I think a lot of people who come out in their teens go through this. Being an adult, you have a better idea who you are, and more maturity, so it's something you have more control over. Of course, that probably depends somewhat on when you first knew. I probably wasn't really ready when I was 13, but at that point it became so obvious (and I had such a crush...) that there would be no denying it any longer.
When talking to people i just meet or associates, i dont go blabing about my sexuality off the cuff. I think thats kind of tactless to bring it up in a conversation with someone you dont really know to well. Like "Hi im gay, whats your name", ill bring it up if we talk about something that leads to it, like talking about going on a date or boyfriends etc. But rarely will i proudly proclaim IM GAY just for the sake of saying it. I only hide it to those i work with and thats only because of DADT, but in the same breathe I dont try to make me being gay the only thing to identify myself as.
Definitely.
When I started going to college, I saw it as an opportunity to completely forget about who I was in high school, and re-make myself to a group of people that had never met me before, and had never known my past self. One of the things I wanted to do was go into the closet, at least at first, to see what people thought of me at face value instead of having my sexuality contribute to preconceived notions about my personality and interests.
Now I'm not really out or in, but I don't really know anyone well enough for it to matter.
(...I'm such a hermit...:-/)
Unfortunatly im basically living a double life, I live with a gay roomate and have a very active social life among the gay community but i also have straight work friends that i hang out with and have to hide any info about who im dating or seeing or interested in. Again the DADT pops up again, i keep it from them because they could get into trouble too although i think most of them would be ok with it. Hiding it from them really keeps me from getting closer to them, since they no nothing about my love life, they have no idea that i was in a relationship for the past year or, who im currently dating. Its a shame but ill be out of the military in September!
It's a shame it has to be that way. I knew about my sexuality for several months before telling people. I knew being in middle school it was possibly the worst possible time, but I felt bad for deceiving people, and I was already accused of it, and famous for the fact, by much of the student body.
Will you miss Japan? I imagine the culture must be pretty fascinating, and the land is pretty beautiful.
Life Update: I'm learning how to drive a car. I'm getting much better at it now with drivers ed (which is the point).
Driver's Ed was a horrific experience for me.
I was already afraid of the prospect of driving because in my childhood I went through eight different car crashes and had seen people die from them.
It was much worse once I got to the part where I actually drove with the instructor. The man was extremely abrasive which didn't help me, being already nervous, and such an arse. And his teaching techniques were pretty horrible - towards the end of it I just quit the whole program, because I didn't think anything could possibly be worse than getting into that car with him even one more time, much less several. It's the only time I've ever really given up or failed something.
I remember the first time I went out with him, which was the first time I had ever really driven a car, he told me that I shouldn't become a doctor because I was nervous driving.
Totally unfair characterization. Just because I'm a Spike doesn't mean I don't ever let Johnny show his hot smile. It's just that he pops in with cards that form a mana curve...
Hey, just keep trying. Love is really, really tough. At least the guy you like isn't leaving high school in five days x_x
But while we're there, here is my story about my man:
There is this guy at my high school. He's kind of 5 years older than me. He's the first person I told I was gay. And I was like, totally head over heels for him. So I asked him out. And he said 'possibly'. Then he was sick the weekend we were going to go out. And it was sort of like, 'um... let's not reschedule.' So then blah blah blah drama blah blah random people going OMG ROSS ASKED THAT GUY OUT!!! Everyone was shocked when they heard the story. But anyway, this was all the beginning of the school year. About a month ago, we were talking, and he said that he had always liked me, and that he actually wanted to be with me. I was like, crying because despite how bubbly and energetic I am, I never really have close relationships with anyone. And it was the first time someone had told me that since I came out and my parents decided they weren't the biggest fans of me ever. I suppose I can't complain, I didn't get like kicked out of my house or anything, and I still have food and money and stuff, but it's just really sad. Like, no one has really wanted me around for several months.
But, of course, too good to be true-ness sets in, and ever since, he's never wanted to talk about that day, and we've just been friends. We hang out a ton and still talk a lot, so... I don't know.
The worst part is that right now I'm listening to the song I first listened to on the day I met him right now. sigh. Talk about memory lane -_- Hope you all didn't get smashed by the wall of text on your way through.
You also remind me of my younger self.
I really don't know what to say, other than that being in high school sucks. And no matter how unlikely or trite it seems, things will be ok in time.
Nope, pretty sure he'd be guilty of statutory rape.
Personally, I've never seen the attraction to being with someone much older/younger than yourself. And I think it's ever further problematic in your teens, where every year makes a lot more of a difference in terms of where an individual is at in their life.
I suppose it may be related to some people's internalized notions about sexuality, especially if it involves ideas about dominance.
I think a lot of young people are attracted to older people because they fancy themselves more mature than others their age. I was that way, once. After all, all of my crushes were on teachers (it didn't help that one of them was also hot for student :-/). I guess in my case, I was more physically attracted to older men, too.
I definitely agree that each year of adolescence makes a huge difference, much more than the years of difference in adults. Just don't tell any adolescents that.
I think a lot of young people are attracted to older people because they fancy themselves more mature than others their age.
I think that's a large part of it. Though thinking that being with someone who has a car/house/career/bald spot/etc somehow makes you more mature by association is immature in itself.
I definitely agree that each year of adolescence makes a huge difference, much more than the years of difference in adults. Just don't tell any adolescents that.
I do tell them that. At length. And often.
I heard the phrase "mature for my age" so much from friends growing up that I think it's lost all meaning to me. My friends sometimes may not have been immature in the same ways as our peers, but that didn't mean they were mature. Even for their age. Hell, I'm in my twenties and I'm self-aware enough to knowI've still got a lot of growing up to do, despite how far I've come.
Quote from FMota »
Ross, this is probably a sore spot with you right now, but, for your own good, consider what your parents have been through to bring you up so far. I was 13, 3 years ago, and I whole-heartedly hated my mother, and honestly thought she was cruel to me on purpose. But, in the last year, I woke up one day a realized how much has been done for me, especially by my mother. I can't repay her (at least not for a long time), but at least I can treat her with the respect she deserves for being my mother. I'm pretty sure things would've gone a lot smoother for both me and my mother had I realized my obligation sooner.
Oddly enough, my relationship with my parents seemed great until my late teens then over the course of the last five years, it deteriorated. I didn't see how warped our relationship was until I grew up a little. Plus me being a fudge-packing, skank of an embarassment didn't help things.
Quote from Rocket »
maybe you should add a section called "enemies of the gaymers" to your first post
...... why? You gunning to be the first name on the list?
Oddly enough, my relationship with my parents seemed great until my late teens then over the course of the last five years, it deteriorated. I didn't see how warped our relationship was until I grew up a little. Plus me being a fudge-packing, skank of an embarassment didn't help things.
I've started to feel the same way. Slowly, over time, I've started to realize that my parents aren't the best people ever. I've kind of gotten to the age were I'm starting to make my own choices, and everytime I hear 'Well, abortion is wrong' or 'gay people shouldn't have marriage' or even comments about other people like 'He is just so incompetent I can't believe he has a job'. Just like, how am I supposed to respond when I'm sitting right there? Like, "Oh... great." Every day it seems like it's getting harder to respond to my parents in a positive emotional way. I haven't hugged either of them for several months.
really don't know what to say, other than that being in high school sucks. And no matter how unlikely or trite it seems, things will be ok in time.
From what I've heard about high school, I consider myself to be in a pretty good high school. There is a ton of acceptance for differing sexuality, different walks of life, etc. Of course, a few bad apples can spoil the bunch and be a total pain.
Actually, my plan was to move away after high school, go to some far away college and never speak to them again. I figured that they would disown me, so I was determined to disown them first.
Same thing here. Apparently it is very hard to convince people of your heterosexuality when you have the worst gay lissssssssp ever and all you know about is fashion.
So, on a different topic: Which legend is hotter? Tolsimir or Stonebrow?
Interactions in the brain are subtler, admittedly. I guess I question the idea of neural development taking such a different route in a post-natal state, because there doesn't seem to be much of an explainable reason or cause for the change or fork. It suggests at a separate relationship, but that's just based off my current knowledge which is in no way definitive. Still makes me wonder, though, why would some children be queer when others were transgendered if it's from the same stem?
Some people insist that changes do occur in the brain's individual characteristics throughout life because of stimuli. The relatively few studies that have empirically shown that there is a physical difference between the brains of males and females, and that transgender brains that have been studied invariably are like the brains of the sex they identify with in these physical ways, are often met with that contetion: how do we know their brains were always that way, as they could have formed that way because of that identification, instead of that identification being caused by the brain?
That seems strange to be when taking into account that gender identity "disorder" often manifests during infancy or very young childhood. The argument seems to cede that this kind of thing has some physical, neurological reality - and yet, completely downplays what this would say about that phenomenon. Perhaps they believe that socialization is what causes people to have a certain gender identity. That theory, however, has already been disproven by the existence of kids who were operated on to appear as another sex (such as because of accident, like a boy whose ***** was damaged during circumcision and was given vaginoplasty), were socialized as that sex, and yet continued to have the other gender identity in spite of that.
As for gay vs. trans . . . supposeldy we have different neurological sexes, right? In utero, each fetus would initially have a "default" female brain. There must be some hormonal process that stimulates development of characteristics to become "brain-male" in the first place. It seems very plausible for this to not happen at all sometimes, or only have a weak influence, etc. I mean, otherwise, how could we have strong bisexuality? It can't be a binary, on/off kind of characteristic.
You know more about biochemistry than I do, so you'd be able to say better than I. The theories I've read posit that "brain sex" is developed because of prenatal hormonal exposure, and that higher or lower levels of this exposure will logically lead to higher or lower chances of certain traits really developing.
I've got to go now, but I'll back later to finish this.
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All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the light that you see. All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the peace that you feel. All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to fill your heart on my own.
But the rainbow is an image of hope for many reasons, as it is a brilliant sight coming out of oftimes dismal weather.
Help has come in the form of a bit of basic algebra. I feel that it'll shed some light on your problem here.
Basically:
S + T = W
...S in this case stands for 'spam' and the T stands for 'light trolling'. And the W? That stands for 'Warning'. I love math. -- {mikeyG}
Margaret Russel 6UU
Legendary Creature-Human Fashionista Judge
Margaret Russel can't be the target of bad furniture.
:love:, T: Befriend target Gay permanent named "Jonathan Addler". Destroy target Guest Judge's Opinion.
7/7 "You just can't design a room around a cat!"
Jonathan Addler :love::love::love:
Gay Legendary Creature-Human Fashionista Judge T: See target decorator later.
3/3 "He's just the mayor of excuses village." "If I had to live in this room, I would shoot myself."
Help has come in the form of a bit of basic algebra. I feel that it'll shed some light on your problem here.
Basically:
S + T = W
...S in this case stands for 'spam' and the T stands for 'light trolling'. And the W? That stands for 'Warning'. I love math. -- {mikeyG}
Fab Five :love::love::love::love::love:
Legendary Creature t: Target non-Gay creature is Gay.
5/5
Disco Pharmacist
Creature
:love:, t: Target Gay creature gets +2/-2 until end of turn.
Hookup :love::love:
Instant
Choose one - Remove two target Gay creatures from the game; or remove target Gay creature and target non-Gay Drunk creature from the game. At end of turn return creatures removed from the game this way to play with an infection counter on them.
Fabulousify :love::love::love:
Enchantment
Non-creature permanents are Gay.
Goddamn I can just keep going and going...
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Life is such a loose term... he's probably doing some non-magic related activity and thinking of Magic and Men, or is that just me
...There are things to do besides Magic and Men? I was just joking about the whole 'life' thing... I thought that was just a fairy tale they told to scare little scrubs... o_o
Y'all forgot the most obvious one:
The Gay Agenda WWW:love::love::love:
Gay Enchantment
When The Gay Agenda comes into play, gain control of all permanents, the media, and world governments.
Players can't play spells unless they are fabulous.
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Except, besides skipping grade 9, I was born in december, so for the first few months of tenth grade I was thirteen.
That was a little bit weird, societally.
But I lived through it. I wasn't aware I was gay until a month or so after my fourteenth birthday, though.
Nope, pretty sure he'd be guilty of statutory rape.
Personally, I've never seen the attraction to being with someone much older/younger than yourself. And I think it's ever further problematic in your teens, where every year makes a lot more of a difference in terms of where an individual is at in their life.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
I had a relationship sorta like that a few years ago. I think a lot of it has to do with them being comfortable in their skin, and not being worried about the consequences. As a senior, he's probably thinking one of two things: He has a few days left of school, so it wouldn't matter if he came out. Or, he has a few days left of school and he doesn't want to be abandoned by his friends. The age difference might be a little weird for him, too.
Oh, he came out like, junior year. So before I even knew him. I think I remember him saying that age was the big reason. But whatevah.
Edit: Oh, here is an interesting tidbit that is completely normal to me but shocking to everyone I say it to: We go to an all boy's school. Paradise.
A lot of people mistake me, for, like, a thirty-year-old woman on the internet. It's slightly unsettling.
EDIT: My profile picture is totally of me now!
WEIRD, RIGHT?
I saw him at a party today, and later I started crying. Not like the miserable crying, but like, the shedding an old skin and starting anew crying. We had a lot of fun, but it's just so weird to see my first love go.
Edit: Tuatha, is your banner from Wicked? I'm going to see it for the first time in a month or two.
Perhaps that isn't true in all online communities, but how often is a poor typist compared, for example, to a thirty-year-old?
It's always eleven or twelve. Or usually, at any rate.
That story is insane. I don't really have any other words. Couldn't he have just SAID he wasn't going to do it?
People today...the internet makes it too easy to back out of something, because there's no repercussions.
Well it depends on what aspect of neurology we're talking about. Nerves, for example, almost never undergo mitosis and if the connection between a part of the body and the brain is injured, it will take a very long time for the nerves to re-establish feeling because they don't have the same genes active which give them "guidance" how to grow as in early development - so you end up with haphazard randomness.
Interactions in the brain are subtler, admittedly. I guess I question the idea of neural development taking such a different route in a post-natal state, because there doesn't seem to be much of an explainable reason or cause for the change or fork. It suggests at a separate relationship, but that's just based off my current knowledge which is in no way definitive. Still makes me wonder, though, why would some children be queer when others were transgendered if it's from the same stem?
Ha, yes.
I kind of like that. Not only we have to concede that the Bible itself is infallible, but indeed those who chose which books were canonically part of the Bible must have similarly been an infallible process, especially considering all of the apocrypha and pseudepigrapha floating around at the time. Really modern day Christianity is nothing more than the theological prevalence of the idea of Jesus as divine as opposed to Jesus being human... and as with so many things, one was more common than the other because it was more intellectually simple and easier to proselytize to the masses. It is so often the case that religion wins over mysticism because humanity is unfailingly and reliably stupid.
I have to say I have in many ways sided with the theology of Orthodox Christianity over the Roman Catholic Church. But that's like saying I agree with Mahayana Buddhism over Theravada... since I don't agree with either religion, ultimately, it's kind of meaningless.
The Church has definitely capitalized on the human need for a strong authority figure. Fabricated authority seems pretty repugnant to me, but I guess all you have to say is that it really comes from G-d to get people to succumb to your will and tithe to you. I'm surprised that the Orzhov guild didn't cause any kind of controversy, but then, that would be a kind of implied guilt if it did, wouldn't it? In the book I'm writing, one of the antagonistic entities is the "Imperial Church," and I've wondered sometimes if that won't draw criticism from types like William Donohue. But I suspect most Christians will assume the writing is a positive Christian allegory...
Dominionists I've encountered all seem to think, more or less, that society would benefit from being of a "Christian" nature. I'm not sure how exactly it could be, and they certainly don't provide any evidence as to why. To the contrary, all you have to do is look at their abusive families and more visible cult practices to see the opposite is true. I've met too many "survivors" with PTSD to think that the increasing parallel economy of extremist Christians is in any way harmless or deserving of tolerance.
Definitely. And by system, hopefully something more coherent and substantive than "look in the Good Book!"
I wonder if the bulk of society really couldn't be kept under control if not for the concepts of eternal rewards and punishments after death. A lot of theologians seem to think that these ideas are intrinsically linked to justice. It's really sad when you're mind is so warped that your only idea of justice is for in every instance the punishment not fit the crime.
Although I must say the deeper your delve into morality in Christianity the more you do uncover about a pre-existing system. Really I think it is derived from Roman law, and some of that legalism starts to spurt through. For example, the idea that Jesus had to "pay" for the sin of humanity by dying. It's definitely reminiscent of something.
I guess I would term it moral objectivism. Of course, objectivity and the absolute are fairly equivalent terms, but with the absolute in morality I think there is a slight connotation of difference than my set of beliefs. Or, at least, I think of moral absolutism as proposing that you can name a set of actions that are moral and a set of actions that are immoral and this is always the case. I think this is untrue. Every action has the potential for moral consequence, but its morality cannot be discerned before the impact of the action has been created. The same action can be moral in one situation and immoral in a different one. I don't think moral absolutism has room for this distinction, even though it to treats in objectivity.
As with other things. It tends to be a dead giveaway when they continue to rely on the justification despite its logical refutation.
With homosexuality, I don't think it's so much that to them it is immoral as that they want it to be. And they'll accept any kind of paradigm that allows for this constant. Unfortunately, reality isn't really that flexible.
I agree.
Honestly, the idea of celibacy doesn't personally bother me that much. Under different circumstances, I might consider it. But I wouldn't be celibate simply because of someone else's ideas of how immoral the alternative would be for me, because I simply disagree with those notions. In the same way, I also disagree with the idea of obeisance. And so, even though I find the idea appealing, I could never be a monk.
It's a need for them.
I think having an authority of some kind is a way of feeling secure and keeping equilibrium. It may be that, deep down, they're really just children that were too sheltered to ever really be self-dependent. The idea of leading their own lives and having personal responsibility and accountability for their own actions must be terrifying. The fires of damnation is the only thing that really keeps them in line. Frankly, I find that more immoral that those that are committing the "sins"!
So it would seem. Equality can be a good thing, but it can be taken to an extreme as many things. I think we see a lot of this in the White vs. Red conflict. White provides equality to people, which can be really helpful, and other times, not. Red, conversely, provides freedom, but in the lack of equality the strong can exploit the weak. I suppose in a sense equality and liberty are at opposing axes, and society needs a balance of them, or we result in authoritarian communism versus anarchy. Neither is particularly appealing.
Hmm.
My parents know, and they found out about it before I wanted them to. Actually, my plan was to move away after high school, go to some far away college and never speak to them again. I figured that they would disown me, so I was determined to disown them first.
Once they found out, they did not disown me, however. My father was disappointed, because I'm the only one who can "pass on the family name" in the traditional sense. Over time they became accepting and it wasn't a big deal. They even became liberal democrats.
It's the more extended parts of my family that don't know, such as my grandparents. My grandfather actually just gave me a car, to my complete astonishment, and I think he might retract the gift if he knew. There's no way to know, though. He once paid a girlfriend of my uncle several thousand dollars to leave him, so he's definitely the type to be overly controlling.
I think I was mostly bothered by the superficial nature of the conversations that I had with people. I didn't want people to think of me as shallow and having no depth or class.
And I kind of wanted to know if people would find me as interesting if my sexuality never came up. I think when you're an adolescent and forming so much of your identity, being defined by just a single trait is kind of scary. I'm still kind of in an identity crisis now, and I imagine it will take me quite some time to really know myself.
You're probably right.
I used to not be concerned with it, figuring that it would go away as I got older. As I began to notice more adults with the same problems, I think I started to panic a bit.
I always find it invigorating and enjoyable when I do get up and do something productive. Maybe you just have to do it often enough that the feeling of accomplishment can motivate you.
I think, for me, it's nice to interact with people in an environment where it is difficult, if not impossible, to have preconceived notions about a person. I want to be known purely for my ideas, intelligence and what I have to say, not for being eccentric or withdrawn.
That may be. I guess from my perspective, it seems like everyone else pushes me away that I've neglected to notice how I do the same.
There have been times when I have wanted to be friends with someone, but they just found me annoying or trivial. I've probably become cynical about it.
Oh yes, and I can't stand scary movies! Although I could personally write a very mean horror novel. I guess I'm unaffected by the disturbing content of my own mind.
I have this bizarre fear of serial killers, and I really hate to be alone at night, even though I am most of the time.
I should probably invest in a firearm or something. Or, maybe not.
Heh.
I think he likes to think of himself as being a protector figure. My special needs seem to play into his of needing to be needed. He hasn't complained so far, so maybe he likes doing it. He'll roll his eyes at me if I ask him to carry me around, though. That's probably because he knows that's more laziness than anything.
Hmm.
I'm probably too imperious for anyone to try that with me. Maybe you should try looking mean.
No, not physically, anyway.
My way of dealing with it was to be hyper and obnoxious in public. Doing things like, you know, tickling people a lot and being really annoying.
I think the fact that I got this way around people really contributed to a negative self image because I didn't want to be that way but I couldn't seem to help it. So now, I go out of my way to be really serious and under control, and I've perhaps hit the other extreme.
Good luck!
I think with me I sort of came out with a vengeance. Instead of denying who I was, I affirmed it... overtly and aggressively. It lead to a whole other set of problems, but I think a lot of people who come out in their teens go through this. Being an adult, you have a better idea who you are, and more maturity, so it's something you have more control over. Of course, that probably depends somewhat on when you first knew. I probably wasn't really ready when I was 13, but at that point it became so obvious (and I had such a crush...) that there would be no denying it any longer.
Definitely.
When I started going to college, I saw it as an opportunity to completely forget about who I was in high school, and re-make myself to a group of people that had never met me before, and had never known my past self. One of the things I wanted to do was go into the closet, at least at first, to see what people thought of me at face value instead of having my sexuality contribute to preconceived notions about my personality and interests.
Now I'm not really out or in, but I don't really know anyone well enough for it to matter.
(...I'm such a hermit...:-/)
It's a shame it has to be that way. I knew about my sexuality for several months before telling people. I knew being in middle school it was possibly the worst possible time, but I felt bad for deceiving people, and I was already accused of it, and famous for the fact, by much of the student body.
Will you miss Japan? I imagine the culture must be pretty fascinating, and the land is pretty beautiful.
Driver's Ed was a horrific experience for me.
I was already afraid of the prospect of driving because in my childhood I went through eight different car crashes and had seen people die from them.
It was much worse once I got to the part where I actually drove with the instructor. The man was extremely abrasive which didn't help me, being already nervous, and such an arse. And his teaching techniques were pretty horrible - towards the end of it I just quit the whole program, because I didn't think anything could possibly be worse than getting into that car with him even one more time, much less several. It's the only time I've ever really given up or failed something.
I remember the first time I went out with him, which was the first time I had ever really driven a car, he told me that I shouldn't become a doctor because I was nervous driving.
Is that a serious question or the most subtle way ever to mock the French?
<3
You also remind me of my younger self.
I really don't know what to say, other than that being in high school sucks. And no matter how unlikely or trite it seems, things will be ok in time.
I suppose it may be related to some people's internalized notions about sexuality, especially if it involves ideas about dominance.
I think a lot of young people are attracted to older people because they fancy themselves more mature than others their age. I was that way, once. After all, all of my crushes were on teachers (it didn't help that one of them was also hot for student :-/). I guess in my case, I was more physically attracted to older men, too.
I definitely agree that each year of adolescence makes a huge difference, much more than the years of difference in adults. Just don't tell any adolescents that.
I think that's a large part of it. Though thinking that being with someone who has a car/house/career/bald spot/etc somehow makes you more mature by association is immature in itself.
I do tell them that. At length. And often.
I heard the phrase "mature for my age" so much from friends growing up that I think it's lost all meaning to me. My friends sometimes may not have been immature in the same ways as our peers, but that didn't mean they were mature. Even for their age. Hell, I'm in my twenties and I'm self-aware enough to knowI've still got a lot of growing up to do, despite how far I've come.
Oddly enough, my relationship with my parents seemed great until my late teens then over the course of the last five years, it deteriorated. I didn't see how warped our relationship was until I grew up a little. Plus me being a fudge-packing, skank of an embarassment didn't help things.
...... why? You gunning to be the first name on the list?
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
I've started to feel the same way. Slowly, over time, I've started to realize that my parents aren't the best people ever. I've kind of gotten to the age were I'm starting to make my own choices, and everytime I hear 'Well, abortion is wrong' or 'gay people shouldn't have marriage' or even comments about other people like 'He is just so incompetent I can't believe he has a job'. Just like, how am I supposed to respond when I'm sitting right there? Like, "Oh... great." Every day it seems like it's getting harder to respond to my parents in a positive emotional way. I haven't hugged either of them for several months.
From what I've heard about high school, I consider myself to be in a pretty good high school. There is a ton of acceptance for differing sexuality, different walks of life, etc. Of course, a few bad apples can spoil the bunch and be a total pain.
Same thing here. Apparently it is very hard to convince people of your heterosexuality when you have the worst gay lissssssssp ever and all you know about is fashion.
So, on a different topic: Which legend is hotter? Tolsimir or Stonebrow?
What? We have enemies? Where?
Seriously, though, I'm not sure who would go on the list. Homophobia is so very outré now, isn't it?
Ick. To both. Slightly less ick to Tolsimir. But for some reason I am not a fan of blondes.
But really, the vast majority of attractive people on magic cards are women.
I wouldn't go for either either.
We should lobby for tons of gay men in Lorwyn. Hot ones.
OMG I now know what the enxt thread title will be.
Mikey, is there a policy on when clans start new threads?
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
Nothing official, but we've always started a new one after 1000 posts.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
That seems strange to be when taking into account that gender identity "disorder" often manifests during infancy or very young childhood. The argument seems to cede that this kind of thing has some physical, neurological reality - and yet, completely downplays what this would say about that phenomenon. Perhaps they believe that socialization is what causes people to have a certain gender identity. That theory, however, has already been disproven by the existence of kids who were operated on to appear as another sex (such as because of accident, like a boy whose ***** was damaged during circumcision and was given vaginoplasty), were socialized as that sex, and yet continued to have the other gender identity in spite of that.
As for gay vs. trans . . . supposeldy we have different neurological sexes, right? In utero, each fetus would initially have a "default" female brain. There must be some hormonal process that stimulates development of characteristics to become "brain-male" in the first place. It seems very plausible for this to not happen at all sometimes, or only have a weak influence, etc. I mean, otherwise, how could we have strong bisexuality? It can't be a binary, on/off kind of characteristic.
You know more about biochemistry than I do, so you'd be able to say better than I. The theories I've read posit that "brain sex" is developed because of prenatal hormonal exposure, and that higher or lower levels of this exposure will logically lead to higher or lower chances of certain traits really developing.
It's an old site, but www.transsexual.org has some good links. You might be able to find out more at www.trans-health.com, as well.
I've got to go now, but I'll back later to finish this.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the peace that you feel.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to fill your heart on my own.
Gaymers | Magic Coffeehouse | Little Jar of Mamelon | Natural 20
Gay mana duals?
Nightclub, T: black mana or gay mana.
Bathhouse, T: blue mana or gay mana.
...lol...
Brokeback Mountain, (legendary land), T: red mana or gay mana.
Can't think of any green or white variations to complete the cycle...
w/e
Help has come in the form of a bit of basic algebra. I feel that it'll shed some light on your problem here.
Basically:
S + T = W
...S in this case stands for 'spam' and the T stands for 'light trolling'. And the W? That stands for 'Warning'. I love math. -- {mikeyG}
Legendary Creature-Human Fashionista Judge
Margaret Russel can't be the target of bad furniture.
:love:, T: Befriend target Gay permanent named "Jonathan Addler". Destroy target Guest Judge's Opinion.
7/7
"You just can't design a room around a cat!"
Jonathan Addler :love::love::love:
Gay Legendary Creature-Human Fashionista Judge
T: See target decorator later.
3/3
"He's just the mayor of excuses village." "If I had to live in this room, I would shoot myself."
Help has come in the form of a bit of basic algebra. I feel that it'll shed some light on your problem here.
Basically:
S + T = W
...S in this case stands for 'spam' and the T stands for 'light trolling'. And the W? That stands for 'Warning'. I love math. -- {mikeyG}
Legendary Creature
t: Target non-Gay creature is Gay.
5/5
Disco Pharmacist
Creature
:love:, t: Target Gay creature gets +2/-2 until end of turn.
Hookup :love::love:
Instant
Choose one - Remove two target Gay creatures from the game; or remove target Gay creature and target non-Gay Drunk creature from the game. At end of turn return creatures removed from the game this way to play with an infection counter on them.
Fabulousify :love::love::love:
Enchantment
Non-creature permanents are Gay.
Goddamn I can just keep going and going...
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
Gay Legendary Creature-Human Mutant
Trample
:love:: Rosie O'Donnel deals 1 damage to target Donald Trump.
20/20
MaRo never meant Fattie like this.
Why don't the cowboys have any power? Did the enemy catch them with their pants low or something?
That's actually how I found this place too -_-
I was looking at blue's profile picture and I'm just like, "Damn that man is hot, I wish he was gay..." and then I took a closer look, and! >_>
He's just busy having a 'life'. Pah!
...There are things to do besides Magic and Men? I was just joking about the whole 'life' thing... I thought that was just a fairy tale they told to scare little scrubs... o_o
The Gay Agenda WWW:love::love::love:
Gay Enchantment
When The Gay Agenda comes into play, gain control of all permanents, the media, and world governments.
Players can't play spells unless they are fabulous.