I actually believe the complete opposite. I believe now that reprints will be done in a new fashion. More than likely we'll see a 30-50 card reprint subset show up coinciding with every block after the next one (following TS, they obviously wouldnt redo it right away). So, not Peanut, but the next main expansion will more than likely have 50 reprints to go along with the normal set, and we'll see that happen every major expansion there on out.
Rick- Can you explain what you're so angry about regarding the color pie? You know that Peanut isnt going to be full of blue burn spells, right? This is only for Time Spiral block, the rules are out the window.
Ok, i'll put it to you this way. As all the cards are "timeshifted", so becomes the Color Pie. The Color Pie back from Alpha molds together with the color pie from current MTG by coming through a time rift, and you get Time Spiral block, where there are a few cards touching in every area. Blue got a kill spell, white gets permanent destruction, red gets Worship (or Ali of Cairo :p). I must say-- i love it. It allows you to play more decks.
For example-- why can't you play a UR combo deck right now? Because most likely, theyre going to have some big beating creature that you have no way of dealing with, so before you can combo out, you're dead from damage.
So they print 1 blue creature, just ONE. It has a destroy creature ability, at the minimum cost of returning 2 land to hand (under the assumption you can lay the third returned back down). That's a pretty steep cost, but that killed creature allows a deck that otherwise wouldn't cut it to survive.
That's why i enjoy this so much. Same with AliofCairoWorshipMorpher. Now, i can make a dedicated Braid of Fire/Firebreathing deck, and still not get dominated by a hoarde of weenies.
Personally, i'd like a whole BLOCK of twisted color pie, just so in the future colors aren't totally neuteured when they can't handle good cards. An example of that would be Mono Black in a world where enchantments run rampant. It's just not fair for the black player, so instead of giving them a million options like green/white has, you give them 3-4, and only 1 of which is decent enough to see real play outside dedicated decks.
Rick- Can you explain what you're so angry about regarding the color pie? You know that Peanut isnt going to be full of blue burn spells, right? This is only for Time Spiral block, the rules are out the window.
It's just that I think the color pie shouldn't be messed with, ever. I love white because of what it is, so I get angry when they randomly give it burn, or randomly give its abilities to other color. I like blue because of what it is as a control color, and I hate it when blue gets a direct damage spell that has absolutely nothing to do with its philosophy. I'm not very fond of red because of what it is, so I hate it when red gets tappers or when red's (narrow-minded and booooring :p) abilities bleed to other colors without really belonging there.
I think few players realize how vital the color pie is for the game. Rosewater himself has said it's as vital as the mana system. So, would players be cool with a block that completely disregarded the mana system? Say, a block that used a different means altogether to limit when a spell can be played (or better yet a comparison, a block that didn't limit it at all)?
@Kon - I know from experience we tend do agree about most stuff regarding the game, but here I'll have to completely disagree with you. Heck, since Invasion, they have been enforcing the color pie a lot, and it never stopped them to amaze us with new ideas. They don't need to break the pie for the game to be constantly new, as they have proven themselves. But by doing so, they blur color identities and limitations, making the game look like it did in the beginning from a flavor balance standpoint: a big mess. Few things are untouchable about the game, but my logical line of thought makes me see the color pie as one of them.
And also, why do you think blue doesn't have efficient counters? It has the biggest number of good counters it has had in AGES. It has Disrupting Shoal at zero mana. Spell Snare at one. Remand, Mana Leak, and Rune Snag at two. Hinder and Voidslime at three. That's more than enough right there. Now compare with the amount of playable discard black has, or the amount of decent LD red gets. Historically, Counterspells have been considered as disrupting to the gameplay experience as both those mechanics, yet it shows up a lot more and in way better levels. As to card drawing, it has some very good cards in Jushi Apprentice, tidings and Compulsive Research, to name a few. Of course, they're not as good as, say, Fact or Fiction - but they're not supposed to be.
Sorry for the bitterness guys; it's just that I'm seeing what I love the most about this game being shredded into pieces, which makes me conteplate quitting my favorite game ever for the first time in my life.
What's up with all of the color pie thing, so purples are to be posibly legal, so... I don't se much of a problem, so the pie is shifted somewhat, don't care since I dont play as of now, and if I were playing I would definately not care as long as it provides a healthy environment for playing. So blue gets direct damage, blue seems to be getting a bit aggro with some shadowy creatures and stuff we've seen and stuff, it does need something to cope with the uncounterable monsters coming in this set. Magic is great, but it's still a game... I guess Oh yeah and I know I suck Gotta go study, have an examn on psychology and math... (a lot of bottle in the brain)
Rick- I suddenly feel sad for you brother. I hope you wouldn't go as far as leaving the game over this one block. It is only 1 year, but i understand how you feel. I left the game during Mirrodin block because i hate artifacts in general. They're colorless. Color is the best part of the game. I came back in time for a flavorful Kamigawa block, and i'm glad i didn't stay out.
I enjoy this thoroughly, and perhaps that makes me feel even worse that you hate it, but i agree with Khan that if this didn't happen, where would we be in 3 blocks? 10 Char variants later, what? How many different counterspells can they do? Cancel should say they realize they're running out of different ways to do it that would be considered effective or fun
Please dont quit brother. Rebels man. Rebels .
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Legendary Storyline Poster--- Ixidorsdreams (yeah, it was me ;))
I think paranoid said everything, with maestry. My props to you 'noid
Personally, I'm offended. I can't even begin to understand the reason why Flying Men and Psionic Blast are going to be T2 legal. If they were going to bring 121 ''purple'' cards of old to shake thing up, why are those two and the other clear misses among those? Tormod's Crypt? Come on. And Squire and Dandan among Akroma and Avatar of Woe? This whole mess doesn't make any sense.
Still, I won't quit because of that. Far from it. I won't give up. But I'm very disappointed about the purple cards, and so far there's 3 cards that I'm getting for sure (and only 3):
Call of the Herd
Mystic Enforcer
Mystic Snake
Those are good. But balanced. Those are iconic for their colors. But they make sense. Those cards fit in my UGW decks, and those cards are the ones that made me smile when I saw them. Fiery Temper and Avalanche Riders come as close seconds, and the fact that we can play Wizards in T2 (Finkel, Bob, and Kai can be played in a UB wizards deck to some success) also makes me smile. But that's pretty much it.
Still, I won't give up. The 301 cards from Time Spiral are so interesting, good, unique, nostalgic, etc that they are enough for me. I'll make my best to barely touch the purple cards if I can avoid it.
And I will beat every single deck with Psionic Blast out there. That, my friends, I promise.
Well i'm gonna touch the purple stuff. For me, these are brand new cards. I've never seen them, never played with them or against them (mostly, minus Mirari-Butcher-Woe-Akroma...think thats about it maybe). They make for a bigger card pool, and a nice change from the normal. As i said before, you can only make so many crappier/better variations on old cards before you go "wow, can this color do anything else?"
I'll put it to you this way, and it's an argument i've had with Shady on MSN before:
Blue should feature theft as a piece of its pie.
And i don't mean reprint Confiscate in every Core Set. I mean i want updated theft. I was theft and then pain for theft. I want discard theft. I want there to be so many ways that i can steal stuff that people r afraid to bring the big boys on the board. I want more land theft.
That's a place where they could go with the color blue, but i cant really think of what every other color would be enchanced in as far as under-done mechanics in a color.
But other than that, it's the same old thing all the time. I was telling Nan today that these purple cards were probably printed seperate, after TS was done. They saw TS and said "it just feels the exact same as any other block, with more variations on the same old cards". By printing the purples, they can give the colors a breath of fresh air, even if it's only a few cards. Yeah they'll be powerful, but all colors are gaining here, and so it's still gonna be fair and balanced.
I won't go into the whole distribution of cards, as i havent done a Pre-Release or paid to play since Kamigawa block so it doesn't matter, i would suggest MWS for people who find that to be an issue. I will say this can only be healthy for the game, and there's always bannings for mistakes they made.
Rick i wanna play you in TS so bad it hurts bro! Don't quit!
REBELS!!!!!!!!!
Oh and i just know they're going to make a better Wrath sometime this block. I have been feeling the better Wrath for sometime now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Legendary Storyline Poster--- Ixidorsdreams (yeah, it was me ;))
James, you are doing a load of work compiling the spoiler together.
The official checklist has been made known just now, and there are sooo many evocative names...and also, the "Timeshifted cards" column :p.
Sarpadian Empires, Vol. VII is a card, there are 26 slivers in total with very sexy names, Norin is a red legend...and a few James's cards just have got their names (I did what I was able to help ;)). A great, great amount of info can be decoded from the names...there are so many apparent homages again, and a few surprising names...
Jedit's Dragoons Ixidron (if this has nothing to do with Ixidor, I'll eat my left shoe) Aspect of Mongoose
The slivers are a separate chapter...Two-headed, Telekinetic, Sidewinder, Ghostflame...
@Rick: brother, do not leave Magic. It would be crazy, but it will be fun, I think. There's so much good stuff in blue and white that the world would weep if you leave
Take care, I have to do some REAL work today as well....:sweat:
The game might break because of purple cards legality, but it could also enhance it greatly. It makes the game more diverse, innovative it teaches relatively new players about the game's development since its beginning and what the colors should really be.
That's the problem, I think. The wizard you described isn't a blue wizard in the Magic world - it's a planeswalker. That would be a wizard in the DnD world, and we all know WotC don't like intermingling their two most recognizable brands too much. I firmly believe every color in the last few blocks are exactly what they should really be (aside from some concerns over white, I'll admit).
I for one think they could have very well evoked nostalgia without mutilating the color pie (I've even been toying around with card ideas last night; for example, a way to evoke the Psionic Blast feel within blue's pie slice.) Heck, the Magus cycle is a terrific way to do that.
But the truth is, I probably won't quit over this. I'll certainly play a lot less constructed than I do now for the next two years, but that's not what bugs me. What bugs me is that I had faith that WotC were bound to the constant balance and betterment of the gameplay experience as a whole, and now I simply can't trust them anymore. I know next block will probably have the pie restored, but so what? They've already set a precedent, not to mention ruined extended for me for many, many years to come.
Quote from Dante »
That's a place where they could go with the color blue, but i cant really think of what every other color would be enchanced in as far as under-done mechanics in a color.
I agree with you here; blue should definitely steal more stuff. I can, though, think of the underdone aspect of white: rules-setting. Making things cost more. Making your stuff cost less. Tapping permanents (not only creatures). Keep things from untapping. That's white way to combat, for example, other control decks. And just try to find a single monowhite rules-setting card after Hokori was printed. It seems all of a sudden they forgot all about that Randy Buehler article from some three years ago.
Quote from Craig »
The only one I don't overly like is that red has no way whatsoever of dealing with enchantments
They've been making some very clever and flavorful attemps at that lately. Aura Barbs, for example. I still don’t think red should get to destroy enchantments, but cards like that are always welcome.
Quote from Kon »
Now the next logical step would be to test, if the "nostalgic-color pie-illiterate" cards they are reintroducing into T2 might actually break the format. But the way I see it this is not the case. Psionic Blast isn't going to break the format, and the same goes for Bad Moon. One could argue about the power level of Tormod's Crypt and the Rack for example, but these have absolutely nothing to do with the color pie.
Yeah, I agree that the color pie and the power level issues are different ones. (And I'm way more concern with the former.) But when it comes to blue, those aspects are intrinsecally connected. Blue's overpoweredness for a long time came from the fact that it was the color that could do everything. And with Time Spiral, but is that color again. Like I said (and heavy blue decks like Counterbalance and Izzetron show), blue's current counter, card-drawing, bounce, and finisher suite is absolutely nothing to scoff at. I'd say that bloue is currently the most powerful color in Standard - albeit it's not broken as it used to be. But when you start giving it stuff that, philosophically, it's simply not supposed to have, you have a problem. I'm reminded of the time where blue had at its disposal rules-setting, efficient weenies, efficient finishers, and creature removal. Where does white stand there? That's absolutely unfair and insulting not only to white fans, but to people that, like me, love the delicate balance of can's and cannot's in the Magic universe. I think everything I hate about time spiral can be explained in this quote:
Quote from Kon »
(so that they reflect both the high power level and the color disrepancies of older formats).
Exactly. I DON'T want that. If I did, I wouldn't be playing Standard and Extended, but Legacy and Vintage. I hate eternal formats with a passion, and mostly because of that. Right now, that those anomalies are in every single format, where do people like me run to?
Quote from Kon »
And as for the innovation/new ideas part of your reply, I simply don't agree that without constantly changing and stretching the color pie the game can remain innovative and fresh. You just need to change your own rules every now and then to prevent the evolution of the game from being predictable. By assuming that some aspects of the game are "untouchable" you're only limiting your design space.
Oooh, time to quote that bastard Rosewater again. (And this time I'm talking about something I deal with every day at work.) Limitations breed creativity. The limitations the color pie brings are the very thing that helps designers have the amazing ideas they constantly have. "Blue can't have direct damage, so how can we get around at making a card that feels like a 'psionic blast' without actually giving blue burn?" Hmmm, lets see...
Psionic Explosion - :2mana::symu:
Instant
Target player puts the top four cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard. Put the top two cards of your library into your graveyard.
Flashback
There. VERY nostalgic, in-color pie, and with a twist to boot (not how the card interacts with itself, possibly dumping other copies of it into the yard, so that you can use the flashback on them). All inspired by restrictions. Just take a look at the article I linked to on my last post.
As to your argument that the game gets old if color get the same abilities over and over and over... that's why they explore virgin design space, and that's why we constantly see twists on counterspelling for blue, twists in life gain for white, twist in discard for black, and so on. Printing blatantly off color abilities is NOT the way to solve thsi problem; only a way to blur the very identity of the game and to dodge restrictions that are vital to Magic.
Quote from Kon »
Ahem... then I suppose Blue decks are dominating the format? Hardly Blue is where it is supposed to be (according to their standards) in order not to be broken. Specifically, the power level of the other 4 colors has gone significantly up, and that's why you don't notice the relatively decreased competitiveness of the current blue arsenal.
Quote from Kon »
Agreed. Blue doesn't dominate the format, but it's still among the best colors. Not only that, it's arguably the only color than can stand almost on its own (again, see Izzettron and Counterbalance). Truth is, blue is still the absolute best color when it’s alone. White currently has no way at all to deal with control decks. Black and red can’t hit enchantments. Green can’t deal with creatures. What about blue? It has answers to all of those in counterspells alone, plus stuff like bounce. Try to make monocolored decks in standard, then fare them against each other. Which one do you think would come out on top?
And the funny thing is, if I had to choose what the “omnipotent” colors should be, they would most certainly be white and black. Those are the colors that want absolute power, albeit for different reasons (white because it feels it can make the best decisions for the whole, black because it feels it’s better than everyone else).
Quote from Kon »
About the T2 counterspells: Best counters in ages?? Hardly. Probably better than the counters blue got during the Otarian cycles but still rather expensive and dull. And no, neither Rune Snag nor Mana Leak are exceptionally good counters. Just fairly good and they get played because they fill a certain slot. The real counters are at 3 mana, which is rather expensive.
See my comparison to Land Destruction, which is a mechanic historically as loathed as boring and uninteractive as counterspelling. You're right - blue doesn't have exceptionally goode counters, but it should NOT get them, like red shouldn't get exceptionally good LD spells. Blue should get a handful of decent counters, and that's it. You shouldn't fill blue's 2-mana slot with a plethora of decent counters, the same way you shouldn't fill red's 3-mana slot with too many decent LD spells. And even if Remand isn't a hard counter per se, it's 1) equally frustrating to play against, and 2) a cantrip that lets you find real counters more quickly. (I guess you'll agree that nearly all Remands cast in T2 are followed by another counterspell the next turn.)
Quote from Kon »
About T2 draw spells: You must be kidding. NEVER was there a T2 environment where blue had weaker draw spells. Be it Accumulated Knowledge, Gush or Thirst for Knowledge, there always was a good instant draw spell. But not now. Blue card draw has been partially castrated.
Again, that's how it should be. Blue card drawing was so broken that, even with most of it at sorcery, and even with the constant revamping of every other color, they're still used. A LOT. That is to show that aberrations like Fact of Fiction or Accumulated Knowledge should never see the light of day again. Counterspelling and card drawing are the most powerful mechanics in the game. If they appear in a overly high power level, it's simply not fair to every other color in the game.
Whew, looooooooooooooog post, huh? Feel free to skip it all if you want.
Rick you have a valid point, but A) they don't do the Taxing ability much cause it's very overpowered. and B) I would love to see taxing in black. Had to say it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Legendary Storyline Poster--- Ixidorsdreams (yeah, it was me ;))
Hey, Harry isn't blue! He hates to study, and prefers action! He's impulsive yet very caring for the ones around him! He's sooooo :symw:/:symr:! (Hermione, now that's a blue ***** if I ever saw one.)
But I see what you're getting at, Noid. I just wish it were different, because that kind of nostalgia doesn't appeal to me at all.
@Dante - Too much taxing is indeed kinda powerful, but there are loads of other ways to do rules setting. I'm also kinda pissed that blue got a morpher that prevents things from untapping, not white. Damn you blue mages!
And to finnish the post on a humorous note... they've done it again!! A white-blue-black-red card that somehow costs GGG! So much for the guy who said "It's not like they're printing direct damage in green" in the mill...
@Kon - Meh, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. lue burn IMO isn't nostalgia, its a cheap way to get around color pie restrictions. Blue shoudln't get burn, it doesn't fit the color's philosophy at all (kinda like a tapper could probably philosophically be every color but red).
But noooo, the Bees are absolutely NOT justifiable by the color pie! By nostalgia, yes, but definitely not by the color pie. Flying is almost okay, but the shade ability and Shock? Nonono!
So, Prodigal Sorcerer? Lord of Atlantis? Gogo, Time Spiral! Man, I hate this set more by the minute. I guess they really can't follow up an awesome block with another.
EDIT: Look at the opened booster packs. They're taking it seriously on making white suck hard and blue get all the abilities in the game of Magic. Firebreathing now.
Quote from Kon »
How serious would you think I am if I told you that I actually believe MORT would be a perfect addition to the clan?
Like I said, color pie issues aside, we tend to agree about stuff.
I have to agree with Herder in what he says makes perfect sense: the color pie should be a tool, not a limitation, for eventually, they'll run out of ideas. And that Psionic Mill is HORRIBLE. Dampen Thought costs 1U man. Cmon.
Also, flames can be blue, and often are at their hottest ;).
Herder- Wow, i really hope you're joking on the MORT comment. I would hope for MY sake you wouldn't elaborate more on that, but if you hate me so much that you'd make me leave the clan, then please speak with Shady about what he thinks of MORT joining the clan.
I just want some ****in escape man.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Legendary Storyline Poster--- Ixidorsdreams (yeah, it was me ;))
And that Psionic Mill is HORRIBLE. Dampen Thought costs 1U man. Cmon.
I wasn't talking about power level, but still, the Psionic mill mills 8 cards for 4 mana without the need to use another card, and is potentially a carddrawing spell (you may dump copies of it into the yard with its abilities, only to pay the flashback cost). It's all about the design intrincacies, man.
I still can't believe you guys are okay with blue getting burn. That's magic, people: there are stuff a certain color does, and stuff it doesn't. There's no point in saying 'it's just another blue mill spell, give me blue burn' or 'just another white lifegain card, give me white counters'. When you blur the line that much you're just bound to throw the colors' identities to the wind. You want burn? Play red. You want counters? Play blue. And so on. But oh well, I've said enough, and I gotta save something for the little e-mail I'll send Rosewater on Monday.
I don't like blue, Rick, but sometimes i wish i could play a few counters. If they ever decide to move counters to a white ability also, i'll overjoy and play it. I love white :). And black. Of course black...
Norin the Wary is just...weird. He's hilarious, but can we save comedy cards for unglued please?
Wow i hope they reprint Sylvan Safekeeper. Very cool card.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Legendary Storyline Poster--- Ixidorsdreams (yeah, it was me ;))
Sorry guys, my internet conked out on me yesterday after the power went out and I haven't been able to figure out how to fix it. I gotta say that Time Spiral is looking better and better by the minute. And most of the purple cards are getting me REALLY excited. Gotta go now, class is starting.
PS: Rate my set, lazy bastards!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Bouncer & Clan Rep of the Greek Alliance!
Many thanks to:
Sig: CharlieD at Limited Edition Signatures
Avvy: XenoNinja at HotP Studios
Hey pals, sorry for neglecting clan business in the past few days
Too much work, a nervous boss, getting up early and the pre-prerelease rumor madness...and after the DIS and CSP silence, my sources have awakened again :D.
Half an hour ago I have got two cards from a source, nice homage to Elephant Guide (called Griffin Guide, guess what token it makes? :p) and an ultimate "lucky charm" that you can choose a color for, and that also makes mana...a true plume from a Bird of Paradise. Check them out.
But I am almost unable to view anything at MTGS, especially in the Mill...and with the modem. I just hope that I'll get the post through.
Did I already mention that I am looking forward as hell to the PR?
Okay, goodnight, my pals, and I promise that I will post more tomorrow (maybe even rate your set, Vax ;))
Take care, dear friends!!!
H.
EDIT: Thanks for the comment, Rick (In the Mill). You're welcome, bro
No threats now Paranoid, but i can honestly say, even seeing him browsing makes me seeth. I have to be on my damned best behavior every time i read a post of his, and it's nice not to have to go through that here...the GA is literally a safe haven for me.
Thank you Paranoid however for the kind words. Politics are fun.
I got a second job today, working at an old fashioned Milkshake n Burger diner. There's a really cute girl there, who either talks way too much (and even then), or really likes me because she got me the job almost by herself (didn't have to pull out the old Charisma, heh heh). She asked if i drink too, and we share mutual friends...
I don't wanna get ahead of myself, but if i want to survive, i just need to find more things that make me happy in life. Unfortunately, Jewels refuses to be one of them, so .... I gave her my loyalty, she gave me my heart in a handbasket.
So... i dunno...but having another job is good, it's about i got more income. I just got suspended at my other job (for a week) over some total bullstuff. I hate this crap.
Poor mtgs server I know my posts will go through, although surfing is slow for me on cable as well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Legendary Storyline Poster--- Ixidorsdreams (yeah, it was me ;))
I don't wanna get ahead of myself, but if i want to survive, i just need to find more things that make me happy in life. Unfortunately, Jewels refuses to be one of them, so .... I gave her my loyalty, she gave me my heart in a handbasket.
That's too bad, man. I hope the two of you can come to good terms, because we all know how genuinely worried you were about her.
@Noid - I agree fully with you. MORT seems like a nice guy to me, but if Dante has problems with him, I understand.
@Honza - Wow, you thanked me and said I was welcome in the same line!
My new baby Chronosavant tends to agree with you. Although bleh, freaking Tormod's Crypt is back. Still, white got a bigger rate of overcosted/underpowered cards than any other color (see Errant Doomsayers, Flickering Spirit, Plated Pegasus, Icatian Crier, Foriysian Interceptor, Gustcloak Cavalier, to name a few).
I agree with Noid though - this topic is better of dead already. I hate Time Spiral, Noid accepts it, Kon and Dante like it, the others are scattered inbetween. Nothing will change that now (at least until we play with the cards).
Wow, seen Platinum Angel and Worship on Scepter? You will. That's one nice card (the W instant). White just got a boon, Rick.
Although, the more and more i see it... i can't help but think blue got way too much in the bleeding. It seems they got pinging, direct damage, weenies, mass removal (Ixidron turns everything down, and it can't unmorph essentially without a morph cost :p), and even some fatness. Truly, i think they may have done blue JUST a little too good. I'm scared...
Even with all the black cards (And the one that turns everyone all 0/2 is freakin sweet), i find that White and Blue got way more power than everyone, with Red following close behind. I'm scurred. oh well. I guess that+Pyroclasm is a 2BBR Wrath of God. Meh.
Need more applications...
Man, i'm about to work for 24 straight hours between both my jobs. Wish me luck, don't wanna get fired on the first day
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Legendary Storyline Poster--- Ixidorsdreams (yeah, it was me ;))
the one that turns everyone all 0/2 is freakin sweet (...)I guess that+Pyroclasm is a one sided 2BBR Wrath of God. Meh.
There. I am surprisingly okay with black getting that effect though... although on second thought it's definitely white through and through.
And I also really like the white rare split second, especially since I know what I *really* wanted was never gonna happen.
Meh, no prerelease for me tomorrow again. I'm used by now, it's been like that since Saviors. To replace it, we have another Coldsnap sealed tourney, but I'm not sure I'll play. Gotta save money for Time Spiral, especially since I'll be able to get up to THREE rares (:eek:) in a booster pack.
Rick: White doesn't suck! Did you see the Crusade Flash spirit? That's awesome. And of course we already knew Icatian Javelineers (spare me the color pie lecture, I think the Javelineers are perfectly viable :D), Magus of the Disk, Serra Avenger, Mangara and Holy Nimbus. Other new cards i like: Angel's Grace, Chronosavant.
Indeed. It did get shafted purple-wise though.
I gotta admit that, were it not for the color pie abominations, I'd actually see Time Spiral as a very cool set (not Ravnica-cool, but still ;)).
I must say that I have not a favorite card so far, but I greatly look forward to playing casual slivers, to the prerelease, to all the homages, art and flavor texts.
I won't be probably able to get to the internet tomorrow to discuss the first prerelease experience of other people, and to discuss strategy for Sunday. But I know one thing...It'll be probably the greatest fun I have ever had at Magic tourney.
Btw...Ib Halfheart is indeed the gobbo from the French site long ago, and his flavor text says "Everybody except me....CHARGE!!!!!" Another great flavortext from the set. You are not able not to love it :D.
Celestial Crusader kicks a$$, and so does three quarters of the cards....Rift Bolt, Deep-Sea Kraken, Jaya.... heck, even Norin the Wary skyrocketed a few levels (more precisely, from (less than) zero to hero) in my eyes when James confirmed Pandemonium in purplies :D.
And yeah, three-rare pack would be mega-cool to get Too bad that with my luck, this is not gonna happen to me even if the hell freezes :p.
In case I would not be able to get online until Monday anymore, I wish you the best luck at the prereleases. Hold the Greek Alliance banner high, I'll try to do my best as well!
Take care, and have a great time, my dear, dear friends
Rick- Can you explain what you're so angry about regarding the color pie? You know that Peanut isnt going to be full of blue burn spells, right? This is only for Time Spiral block, the rules are out the window.
Ok, i'll put it to you this way. As all the cards are "timeshifted", so becomes the Color Pie. The Color Pie back from Alpha molds together with the color pie from current MTG by coming through a time rift, and you get Time Spiral block, where there are a few cards touching in every area. Blue got a kill spell, white gets permanent destruction, red gets Worship (or Ali of Cairo :p). I must say-- i love it. It allows you to play more decks.
For example-- why can't you play a UR combo deck right now? Because most likely, theyre going to have some big beating creature that you have no way of dealing with, so before you can combo out, you're dead from damage.
So they print 1 blue creature, just ONE. It has a destroy creature ability, at the minimum cost of returning 2 land to hand (under the assumption you can lay the third returned back down). That's a pretty steep cost, but that killed creature allows a deck that otherwise wouldn't cut it to survive.
That's why i enjoy this so much. Same with AliofCairoWorshipMorpher. Now, i can make a dedicated Braid of Fire/Firebreathing deck, and still not get dominated by a hoarde of weenies.
Personally, i'd like a whole BLOCK of twisted color pie, just so in the future colors aren't totally neuteured when they can't handle good cards. An example of that would be Mono Black in a world where enchantments run rampant. It's just not fair for the black player, so instead of giving them a million options like green/white has, you give them 3-4, and only 1 of which is decent enough to see real play outside dedicated decks.
I think few players realize how vital the color pie is for the game. Rosewater himself has said it's as vital as the mana system. So, would players be cool with a block that completely disregarded the mana system? Say, a block that used a different means altogether to limit when a spell can be played (or better yet a comparison, a block that didn't limit it at all)?
@Kon - I know from experience we tend do agree about most stuff regarding the game, but here I'll have to completely disagree with you. Heck, since Invasion, they have been enforcing the color pie a lot, and it never stopped them to amaze us with new ideas. They don't need to break the pie for the game to be constantly new, as they have proven themselves. But by doing so, they blur color identities and limitations, making the game look like it did in the beginning from a flavor balance standpoint: a big mess. Few things are untouchable about the game, but my logical line of thought makes me see the color pie as one of them.
And also, why do you think blue doesn't have efficient counters? It has the biggest number of good counters it has had in AGES. It has Disrupting Shoal at zero mana. Spell Snare at one. Remand, Mana Leak, and Rune Snag at two. Hinder and Voidslime at three. That's more than enough right there. Now compare with the amount of playable discard black has, or the amount of decent LD red gets. Historically, Counterspells have been considered as disrupting to the gameplay experience as both those mechanics, yet it shows up a lot more and in way better levels. As to card drawing, it has some very good cards in Jushi Apprentice, tidings and Compulsive Research, to name a few. Of course, they're not as good as, say, Fact or Fiction - but they're not supposed to be.
EDIT: here's the link to an article I wholeheartedly agree with (but apparently a certain Rosewater doesn't :rolleyes:): http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr85
Sorry for the bitterness guys; it's just that I'm seeing what I love the most about this game being shredded into pieces, which makes me conteplate quitting my favorite game ever for the first time in my life.
*****
ricklongo and RicardoLongo on MTGO
*****
Visit my gaming blog: http://www.gamingsweetgaming.blogspot.com
****************
Check out Rick's Picks, my PureMTGO article series
****************
I enjoy this thoroughly, and perhaps that makes me feel even worse that you hate it, but i agree with Khan that if this didn't happen, where would we be in 3 blocks? 10 Char variants later, what? How many different counterspells can they do? Cancel should say they realize they're running out of different ways to do it that would be considered effective or fun
Please dont quit brother. Rebels man. Rebels .
Personally, I'm offended. I can't even begin to understand the reason why Flying Men and Psionic Blast are going to be T2 legal. If they were going to bring 121 ''purple'' cards of old to shake thing up, why are those two and the other clear misses among those? Tormod's Crypt? Come on. And Squire and Dandan among Akroma and Avatar of Woe? This whole mess doesn't make any sense.
Still, I won't quit because of that. Far from it. I won't give up. But I'm very disappointed about the purple cards, and so far there's 3 cards that I'm getting for sure (and only 3):
Call of the Herd
Mystic Enforcer
Mystic Snake
Those are good. But balanced. Those are iconic for their colors. But they make sense. Those cards fit in my UGW decks, and those cards are the ones that made me smile when I saw them. Fiery Temper and Avalanche Riders come as close seconds, and the fact that we can play Wizards in T2 (Finkel, Bob, and Kai can be played in a UB wizards deck to some success) also makes me smile. But that's pretty much it.
Still, I won't give up. The 301 cards from Time Spiral are so interesting, good, unique, nostalgic, etc that they are enough for me. I'll make my best to barely touch the purple cards if I can avoid it.
And I will beat every single deck with Psionic Blast out there. That, my friends, I promise.
I'll put it to you this way, and it's an argument i've had with Shady on MSN before:
Blue should feature theft as a piece of its pie.
And i don't mean reprint Confiscate in every Core Set. I mean i want updated theft. I was theft and then pain for theft. I want discard theft. I want there to be so many ways that i can steal stuff that people r afraid to bring the big boys on the board. I want more land theft.
That's a place where they could go with the color blue, but i cant really think of what every other color would be enchanced in as far as under-done mechanics in a color.
But other than that, it's the same old thing all the time. I was telling Nan today that these purple cards were probably printed seperate, after TS was done. They saw TS and said "it just feels the exact same as any other block, with more variations on the same old cards". By printing the purples, they can give the colors a breath of fresh air, even if it's only a few cards. Yeah they'll be powerful, but all colors are gaining here, and so it's still gonna be fair and balanced.
I won't go into the whole distribution of cards, as i havent done a Pre-Release or paid to play since Kamigawa block so it doesn't matter, i would suggest MWS for people who find that to be an issue. I will say this can only be healthy for the game, and there's always bannings for mistakes they made.
Rick i wanna play you in TS so bad it hurts bro! Don't quit!
REBELS!!!!!!!!!
Oh and i just know they're going to make a better Wrath sometime this block. I have been feeling the better Wrath for sometime now.
James, you are doing a load of work compiling the spoiler together.
The official checklist has been made known just now, and there are sooo many evocative names...and also, the "Timeshifted cards" column :p.
Sarpadian Empires, Vol. VII is a card, there are 26 slivers in total with very sexy names, Norin is a red legend...and a few James's cards just have got their names (I did what I was able to help ;)). A great, great amount of info can be decoded from the names...there are so many apparent homages again, and a few surprising names...
Jedit's Dragoons
Ixidron (if this has nothing to do with Ixidor, I'll eat my left shoe)
Aspect of Mongoose
The slivers are a separate chapter...Two-headed, Telekinetic, Sidewinder, Ghostflame...
@Rick: brother, do not leave Magic. It would be crazy, but it will be fun, I think. There's so much good stuff in blue and white that the world would weep if you leave
Take care, I have to do some REAL work today as well....:sweat:
H.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
He's trying to make me have a bad day.
Nice card names, Honza bro. Ixidron aye? I wonder if it'll interact as a new morph booster like Ixidor originally was. Hmmmm....
Git now, i say GIT!
That's the problem, I think. The wizard you described isn't a blue wizard in the Magic world - it's a planeswalker. That would be a wizard in the DnD world, and we all know WotC don't like intermingling their two most recognizable brands too much. I firmly believe every color in the last few blocks are exactly what they should really be (aside from some concerns over white, I'll admit).
I for one think they could have very well evoked nostalgia without mutilating the color pie (I've even been toying around with card ideas last night; for example, a way to evoke the Psionic Blast feel within blue's pie slice.) Heck, the Magus cycle is a terrific way to do that.
But the truth is, I probably won't quit over this. I'll certainly play a lot less constructed than I do now for the next two years, but that's not what bugs me. What bugs me is that I had faith that WotC were bound to the constant balance and betterment of the gameplay experience as a whole, and now I simply can't trust them anymore. I know next block will probably have the pie restored, but so what? They've already set a precedent, not to mention ruined extended for me for many, many years to come.
I agree with you here; blue should definitely steal more stuff. I can, though, think of the underdone aspect of white: rules-setting. Making things cost more. Making your stuff cost less. Tapping permanents (not only creatures). Keep things from untapping. That's white way to combat, for example, other control decks. And just try to find a single monowhite rules-setting card after Hokori was printed. It seems all of a sudden they forgot all about that Randy Buehler article from some three years ago.
They've been making some very clever and flavorful attemps at that lately. Aura Barbs, for example. I still don’t think red should get to destroy enchantments, but cards like that are always welcome.
Yeah, I agree that the color pie and the power level issues are different ones. (And I'm way more concern with the former.) But when it comes to blue, those aspects are intrinsecally connected. Blue's overpoweredness for a long time came from the fact that it was the color that could do everything. And with Time Spiral, but is that color again. Like I said (and heavy blue decks like Counterbalance and Izzetron show), blue's current counter, card-drawing, bounce, and finisher suite is absolutely nothing to scoff at. I'd say that bloue is currently the most powerful color in Standard - albeit it's not broken as it used to be. But when you start giving it stuff that, philosophically, it's simply not supposed to have, you have a problem. I'm reminded of the time where blue had at its disposal rules-setting, efficient weenies, efficient finishers, and creature removal. Where does white stand there? That's absolutely unfair and insulting not only to white fans, but to people that, like me, love the delicate balance of can's and cannot's in the Magic universe. I think everything I hate about time spiral can be explained in this quote:
Exactly. I DON'T want that. If I did, I wouldn't be playing Standard and Extended, but Legacy and Vintage. I hate eternal formats with a passion, and mostly because of that. Right now, that those anomalies are in every single format, where do people like me run to?
Oooh, time to quote that bastard Rosewater again. (And this time I'm talking about something I deal with every day at work.) Limitations breed creativity. The limitations the color pie brings are the very thing that helps designers have the amazing ideas they constantly have. "Blue can't have direct damage, so how can we get around at making a card that feels like a 'psionic blast' without actually giving blue burn?" Hmmm, lets see...
Psionic Explosion - :2mana::symu:
Instant
Target player puts the top four cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard. Put the top two cards of your library into your graveyard.
Flashback
There. VERY nostalgic, in-color pie, and with a twist to boot (not how the card interacts with itself, possibly dumping other copies of it into the yard, so that you can use the flashback on them). All inspired by restrictions. Just take a look at the article I linked to on my last post.
As to your argument that the game gets old if color get the same abilities over and over and over... that's why they explore virgin design space, and that's why we constantly see twists on counterspelling for blue, twists in life gain for white, twist in discard for black, and so on. Printing blatantly off color abilities is NOT the way to solve thsi problem; only a way to blur the very identity of the game and to dodge restrictions that are vital to Magic.
Agreed. Blue doesn't dominate the format, but it's still among the best colors. Not only that, it's arguably the only color than can stand almost on its own (again, see Izzettron and Counterbalance). Truth is, blue is still the absolute best color when it’s alone. White currently has no way at all to deal with control decks. Black and red can’t hit enchantments. Green can’t deal with creatures. What about blue? It has answers to all of those in counterspells alone, plus stuff like bounce. Try to make monocolored decks in standard, then fare them against each other. Which one do you think would come out on top?
And the funny thing is, if I had to choose what the “omnipotent” colors should be, they would most certainly be white and black. Those are the colors that want absolute power, albeit for different reasons (white because it feels it can make the best decisions for the whole, black because it feels it’s better than everyone else).
See my comparison to Land Destruction, which is a mechanic historically as loathed as boring and uninteractive as counterspelling. You're right - blue doesn't have exceptionally goode counters, but it should NOT get them, like red shouldn't get exceptionally good LD spells. Blue should get a handful of decent counters, and that's it. You shouldn't fill blue's 2-mana slot with a plethora of decent counters, the same way you shouldn't fill red's 3-mana slot with too many decent LD spells. And even if Remand isn't a hard counter per se, it's 1) equally frustrating to play against, and 2) a cantrip that lets you find real counters more quickly. (I guess you'll agree that nearly all Remands cast in T2 are followed by another counterspell the next turn.)
Again, that's how it should be. Blue card drawing was so broken that, even with most of it at sorcery, and even with the constant revamping of every other color, they're still used. A LOT. That is to show that aberrations like Fact of Fiction or Accumulated Knowledge should never see the light of day again. Counterspelling and card drawing are the most powerful mechanics in the game. If they appear in a overly high power level, it's simply not fair to every other color in the game.
Whew, looooooooooooooog post, huh? Feel free to skip it all if you want.
*****
ricklongo and RicardoLongo on MTGO
*****
Visit my gaming blog: http://www.gamingsweetgaming.blogspot.com
****************
Check out Rick's Picks, my PureMTGO article series
****************
Rick you have a valid point, but A) they don't do the Taxing ability much cause it's very overpowered. and B) I would love to see taxing in black. Had to say it.
But I see what you're getting at, Noid. I just wish it were different, because that kind of nostalgia doesn't appeal to me at all.
@Dante - Too much taxing is indeed kinda powerful, but there are loads of other ways to do rules setting. I'm also kinda pissed that blue got a morpher that prevents things from untapping, not white. Damn you blue mages!
And to finnish the post on a humorous note... they've done it again!! A white-blue-black-red card that somehow costs GGG! So much for the guy who said "It's not like they're printing direct damage in green" in the mill...
*****
ricklongo and RicardoLongo on MTGO
*****
Visit my gaming blog: http://www.gamingsweetgaming.blogspot.com
****************
Check out Rick's Picks, my PureMTGO article series
****************
But noooo, the Bees are absolutely NOT justifiable by the color pie! By nostalgia, yes, but definitely not by the color pie. Flying is almost okay, but the shade ability and Shock? Nonono!
So, Prodigal Sorcerer? Lord of Atlantis? Gogo, Time Spiral! Man, I hate this set more by the minute. I guess they really can't follow up an awesome block with another.
EDIT: Look at the opened booster packs. They're taking it seriously on making white suck hard and blue get all the abilities in the game of Magic. Firebreathing now.
Like I said, color pie issues aside, we tend to agree about stuff.
*****
ricklongo and RicardoLongo on MTGO
*****
Visit my gaming blog: http://www.gamingsweetgaming.blogspot.com
****************
Check out Rick's Picks, my PureMTGO article series
****************
Also, flames can be blue, and often are at their hottest ;).
Herder- Wow, i really hope you're joking on the MORT comment. I would hope for MY sake you wouldn't elaborate more on that, but if you hate me so much that you'd make me leave the clan, then please speak with Shady about what he thinks of MORT joining the clan.
I just want some ****in escape man.
I still can't believe you guys are okay with blue getting burn. That's magic, people: there are stuff a certain color does, and stuff it doesn't. There's no point in saying 'it's just another blue mill spell, give me blue burn' or 'just another white lifegain card, give me white counters'. When you blur the line that much you're just bound to throw the colors' identities to the wind. You want burn? Play red. You want counters? Play blue. And so on. But oh well, I've said enough, and I gotta save something for the little e-mail I'll send Rosewater on Monday.
*****
ricklongo and RicardoLongo on MTGO
*****
Visit my gaming blog: http://www.gamingsweetgaming.blogspot.com
****************
Check out Rick's Picks, my PureMTGO article series
****************
*****
ricklongo and RicardoLongo on MTGO
*****
Visit my gaming blog: http://www.gamingsweetgaming.blogspot.com
****************
Check out Rick's Picks, my PureMTGO article series
****************
Norin the Wary is just...weird. He's hilarious, but can we save comedy cards for unglued please?
Wow i hope they reprint Sylvan Safekeeper. Very cool card.
PS: Rate my set, lazy bastards!
Many thanks to:
Sig: CharlieD at Limited Edition Signatures
Avvy: XenoNinja at HotP Studios
Too much work, a nervous boss, getting up early and the pre-prerelease rumor madness...and after the DIS and CSP silence, my sources have awakened again :D.
Half an hour ago I have got two cards from a source, nice homage to Elephant Guide (called Griffin Guide, guess what token it makes? :p) and an ultimate "lucky charm" that you can choose a color for, and that also makes mana...a true plume from a Bird of Paradise. Check them out.
But I am almost unable to view anything at MTGS, especially in the Mill...and with the modem. I just hope that I'll get the post through.
Did I already mention that I am looking forward as hell to the PR?
Okay, goodnight, my pals, and I promise that I will post more tomorrow (maybe even rate your set, Vax ;))
Take care, dear friends!!!
H.
EDIT: Thanks for the comment, Rick (In the Mill). You're welcome, bro
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Thank you Paranoid however for the kind words. Politics are fun.
I got a second job today, working at an old fashioned Milkshake n Burger diner. There's a really cute girl there, who either talks way too much (and even then), or really likes me because she got me the job almost by herself (didn't have to pull out the old Charisma, heh heh). She asked if i drink too, and we share mutual friends...
I don't wanna get ahead of myself, but if i want to survive, i just need to find more things that make me happy in life. Unfortunately, Jewels refuses to be one of them, so .... I gave her my loyalty, she gave me my heart in a handbasket.
So... i dunno...but having another job is good, it's about i got more income. I just got suspended at my other job (for a week) over some total bullstuff. I hate this crap.
Poor mtgs server I know my posts will go through, although surfing is slow for me on cable as well.
@Noid - I agree fully with you. MORT seems like a nice guy to me, but if Dante has problems with him, I understand.
@Honza - Wow, you thanked me and said I was welcome in the same line!
*****
ricklongo and RicardoLongo on MTGO
*****
Visit my gaming blog: http://www.gamingsweetgaming.blogspot.com
****************
Check out Rick's Picks, my PureMTGO article series
****************
I agree with Noid though - this topic is better of dead already. I hate Time Spiral, Noid accepts it, Kon and Dante like it, the others are scattered inbetween. Nothing will change that now (at least until we play with the cards).
*****
ricklongo and RicardoLongo on MTGO
*****
Visit my gaming blog: http://www.gamingsweetgaming.blogspot.com
****************
Check out Rick's Picks, my PureMTGO article series
****************
Although, the more and more i see it... i can't help but think blue got way too much in the bleeding. It seems they got pinging, direct damage, weenies, mass removal (Ixidron turns everything down, and it can't unmorph essentially without a morph cost :p), and even some fatness. Truly, i think they may have done blue JUST a little too good. I'm scared...
Even with all the black cards (And the one that turns everyone all 0/2 is freakin sweet), i find that White and Blue got way more power than everyone, with Red following close behind. I'm scurred. oh well. I guess that+Pyroclasm is a 2BBR Wrath of God. Meh.
Need more applications...
Man, i'm about to work for 24 straight hours between both my jobs. Wish me luck, don't wanna get fired on the first day
And I also really like the white rare split second, especially since I know what I *really* wanted was never gonna happen.
Meh, no prerelease for me tomorrow again. I'm used by now, it's been like that since Saviors. To replace it, we have another Coldsnap sealed tourney, but I'm not sure I'll play. Gotta save money for Time Spiral, especially since I'll be able to get up to THREE rares (:eek:) in a booster pack.
*****
ricklongo and RicardoLongo on MTGO
*****
Visit my gaming blog: http://www.gamingsweetgaming.blogspot.com
****************
Check out Rick's Picks, my PureMTGO article series
****************
I gotta admit that, were it not for the color pie abominations, I'd actually see Time Spiral as a very cool set (not Ravnica-cool, but still ;)).
*****
ricklongo and RicardoLongo on MTGO
*****
Visit my gaming blog: http://www.gamingsweetgaming.blogspot.com
****************
Check out Rick's Picks, my PureMTGO article series
****************
I must say that I have not a favorite card so far, but I greatly look forward to playing casual slivers, to the prerelease, to all the homages, art and flavor texts.
I won't be probably able to get to the internet tomorrow to discuss the first prerelease experience of other people, and to discuss strategy for Sunday. But I know one thing...It'll be probably the greatest fun I have ever had at Magic tourney.
Btw...Ib Halfheart is indeed the gobbo from the French site long ago, and his flavor text says "Everybody except me....CHARGE!!!!!" Another great flavortext from the set. You are not able not to love it :D.
Celestial Crusader kicks a$$, and so does three quarters of the cards....Rift Bolt, Deep-Sea Kraken, Jaya.... heck, even Norin the Wary skyrocketed a few levels (more precisely, from (less than) zero to hero) in my eyes when James confirmed Pandemonium in purplies :D.
And yeah, three-rare pack would be mega-cool to get Too bad that with my luck, this is not gonna happen to me even if the hell freezes :p.
In case I would not be able to get online until Monday anymore, I wish you the best luck at the prereleases. Hold the Greek Alliance banner high, I'll try to do my best as well!
Take care, and have a great time, my dear, dear friends
Good luck!
H.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)