Apparently communications in online games are a threat. What a joke.
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"No one may threaten or commit violence ('aggress') against another man's person or property. Violence may be employed only against the man who commits such violence; that is, only defensively against the aggressive violence of another. In short, no violence may be employed against a nonaggressor. Here is the fundamental rule from which can be deduced the entire corpus of libertarian theory." - Murray Rothbard, Cited from "War, Peace, and the State"
Apparently communications in online games are a threat. What a joke.
Lets assume you are a terrorist cell. You want to communicate with other cells, but you know the NSA is listening to all conventional discussion means. But, wait! nobody would ever communicate through World of Warcraft (or any other MMO). Because the idea is preposterous.
So now, by virtue of the idea being so preposterous, its actually a really good idea. Since its extremely unlikely the NSA is listening.
I am now imagining a terrorist cell that communicates via WoW.
A: "So are we set for Thursday, right?"
B: "Yeah, I just got the last piece of my raid gear this morning."
C: "I thought Thursdays were PvP days?"
A: "Uh... We're not playing WoW this Thursday..."
C: "What?! I didn't see any planned server downtime."
B: "I think it's that new patch to fix the Panda thing."
A: "THURSDAY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WOW. WE DELIVER THE PACKAGE."
B: "Ohhhh. LOL."
C: "Oh yeah, totes forgot about that."
B: "Well, there goes three hours of farming."
C: "Can I haz ur stuff?"
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
I think its funny they are deploying agents in game. Better watch out who you troll lol.
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"No one may threaten or commit violence ('aggress') against another man's person or property. Violence may be employed only against the man who commits such violence; that is, only defensively against the aggressive violence of another. In short, no violence may be employed against a nonaggressor. Here is the fundamental rule from which can be deduced the entire corpus of libertarian theory." - Murray Rothbard, Cited from "War, Peace, and the State"
This is not anything new. I recall NCIS doing an episode on this with hitmen using a online game of get rich game to hand out orders. If anything; I find cartels are more apt to use WoW to make contacts.
Can you imagine an agent getting payed to play WoW, then going home and being asked what you did today to protect the USA?
It's really hard to judge whether this is insane or genius. If bad guys are actually using MMOs to circumvent traditional collection, then this is a case of the NSA doing a good job keeping up with new technologies. If bad guys aren't using MMOs like that, then it comes off as silly and ridiculous. Without knowing which scenario this is, it's tough to know how to feel about the program.
It's really hard to judge whether this is insane or genius. If bad guys are actually using MMOs to circumvent traditional collection, then this is a case of the NSA doing a good job keeping up with new technologies. If bad guys aren't using MMOs like that, then it comes off as silly and ridiculous. Without knowing which scenario this is, it's tough to know how to feel about the program.
Honestly, it doesn't matter. As bLatch said, if they don't monitor it, the terrorists will likely use it. This move could be preemptive and still be the smart thing to do.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
Waste of resources, these are already monitored by the companies that own the games. What does the NSA have to gain from agents in game. How does that give them access to /tells and guildchat that would be relevant?
They are doing this because a few targets have been known to play a certain game, they weren't doing anything nefarious just playing like anyone else.
So we're so scared of "the terrorists" that we're now saying that we must monitor any and all means that someone who might be a terrorist could potentially use at some point to send a message. Hooray for progress.
Lets assume you are a terrorist cell. You want to communicate with other cells, but you know the NSA is listening to all conventional discussion means. But, wait! nobody would ever communicate through World of Warcraft (or any other MMO). Because the idea is preposterous.
So now, by virtue of the idea being so preposterous, its actually a really good idea. Since its extremely unlikely the NSA is listening.
Actually, this is exactly what I've been thinking for years, that if I ever 'broke bad', that's how I would do it. It's forums and chatrooms and online games that will be the methods of communication for the future.
Online games are perfect for this because they're innocuous, they don't store your chat logs on the computer, etc.
No, separating the wheat from the chaff... well, good luck. It's incredibly hard to monitor for that reason, too.
... they don't store your chat logs on the computer, etc.
I believe I remember UO (Ultima Online) having .txt files in your generic folder save events and PMs (convos were bubbles above your head, but PMs were direct screen to screen).
Online games are perfect for this because they're innocuous, they don't store your chat logs on the computer, etc.
Chat logs might not be stored on your computer, but they are stored. This is why it is so retarded to "send agents into a game", if you have a suspect that plays a game you can request (with or without warrant) there chat logs from Blizzard or whomever.
Waste of resources, these are already monitored by the companies that own the games. What does the NSA have to gain from agents in game. How does that give them access to /tells and guildchat that would be relevant?
They are doing this because a few targets have been known to play a certain game, they weren't doing anything nefarious just playing like anyone else.
It may be a waste but I can see why they want to try it.
Sure they could just ask for the logs of player they suspect... but what if they dont know who to suspect?
Actually being in game is probably more about pattern recognition and finding people coming into the game that dont fit typical players patterns than it is about spying on a particular person. They are looking for things like that group of guys that just show up online in town together to chat privately and never seem to make any progress despite being online a lot...
It may be a waste but I can see why they want to try it.
Sure they could just ask for the logs of player they suspect... but what if they dont know who to suspect?
Actually being in game is probably more about pattern recognition and finding people coming into the game that dont fit typical players patterns than it is about spying on a particular person. They are looking for things like that group of guys that just show up online in town together to chat privately and never seem to make any progress despite being online a lot...
once again though, couldn't that be done just by asking the company for data that they could use to compare time online vs progress? Being in game seems absurdly inefficient.
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"Proving god exists isn't hard. Proving god is God is the tricky part" - Roommate
once again though, couldn't that be done just by asking the company for data that they could use to compare time online vs progress? Being in game seems absurdly inefficient.
once again though, couldn't that be done just by asking the company for data that they could use to compare time online vs progress? Being in game seems absurdly inefficient.
maybe... and it's possible that they do.
I think a lot can be gained though by being in game and gaining the trust of other players. I would bet that there are people you can talk to in WOW to eventually lead you to drugs, porn, other illegal resources... These people might not just stick out like a sore thumb and be easy to find through log files. Especially when you consider the ridiculous number of logs files that exist. And as has been mentioned some of these people might be smart enough to keep any nefarious chatter in a more secure medium and only use the game as a way to find clients.
Lets assume you are a terrorist cell. You want to communicate with other cells, but you know the NSA is listening to all conventional discussion means. But, wait! nobody would ever communicate through World of Warcraft (or any other MMO). Because the idea is preposterous.
So now, by virtue of the idea being so preposterous, its actually a really good idea. Since its extremely unlikely the NSA is listening.
Let's assume you are a terrorist cell.
You are now retired, because you have already defeated the US in every meaningful way.
Terrorists succeeded in one act against us, and since then haven't had to do anything, because we have destroyed our own way of life on their behalf.
Also, the idea that terrorists are using world of warcraft(or any mmo) for this is a complete joke that only our inclusive paranoid government could ever take seriously.
Patriot Act, NDAA, expansions of Hoover era spy tactics on US citizens, etc. etc.
The terrorists won. They won handily. Out of paranoia and fear, we threw away the things that made us who we were. We've been slowly throwing it away ever since LBJ, but maybe even since Teddy.
9/11 just accelerated it tenfold.
Every police car will soon be a anti-riot-suv with a gun turret and data searching facial recognition cameras all over it. The Boston lock-down was a practice run.
Go back to your tinfoil lined bunker IcecreamMan, you're drunk.
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Thanks to Xenphire @ Inkfox for the amazing new sig
“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
I think a lot can be gained though by being in game and gaining the trust of other players. I would bet that there are people you can talk to in WOW to eventually lead you to drugs, porn, other illegal resources... These people might not just stick out like a sore thumb and be easy to find through log files. Especially when you consider the ridiculous number of logs files that exist. And as has been mentioned some of these people might be smart enough to keep any nefarious chatter in a more secure medium and only use the game as a way to find clients.
It's not the NSA's mandate to find drugs, porn, or other "illegal resources" (porn is illegal? O_o).
"Gaining the trust of the players." Would that entail playing the game? I hope to god my tax money is not going towards paying NSA agents to play WOW all day just to "gain the trust" of people who might not even know the identity of other players.
Honestly, this idea is so stupid I thought the Onion, the Daily Show, or College Humor wrote it. The fact this story might actually be real is...beyond absurd.
Let's assume I'm a US spy that is sick of my job but likes playing online games. I convince the US government that there are terrorist cells in WoW and now they let me play all the time, so long as I eavesdrop on other players.
You are now retired, because you have already defeated the US in every meaningful way.
Terrorists succeeded in one act against us, and since then haven't had to do anything, because we have destroyed our own way of life on their behalf.
Also, the idea that terrorists are using world of warcraft(or any mmo) for this is a complete joke that only our inclusive paranoid government could ever take seriously.
QFT. The idea that we need counter-terrorism agents trolling around ****ing World of Warcraft is so patently absurd I couldn't read the article with a straight face. The NSA is watching me farm for EXP? I feel safer already. Talk about jumping the shark.
It's interesting that a society obsessed with misquoting 1984 isn't more outraged with the enormous amount of clout that the NSA has been given to intrude into their daily lives. It's trite, I know. It's just something I've noticed.
Apparently communications in online games are a threat. What a joke.
Lets assume you are a terrorist cell. You want to communicate with other cells, but you know the NSA is listening to all conventional discussion means. But, wait! nobody would ever communicate through World of Warcraft (or any other MMO). Because the idea is preposterous.
So now, by virtue of the idea being so preposterous, its actually a really good idea. Since its extremely unlikely the NSA is listening.
I am now imagining a terrorist cell that communicates via WoW.
A: "So are we set for Thursday, right?"
B: "Yeah, I just got the last piece of my raid gear this morning."
C: "I thought Thursdays were PvP days?"
A: "Uh... We're not playing WoW this Thursday..."
C: "What?! I didn't see any planned server downtime."
B: "I think it's that new patch to fix the Panda thing."
A: "THURSDAY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WOW. WE DELIVER THE PACKAGE."
B: "Ohhhh. LOL."
C: "Oh yeah, totes forgot about that."
B: "Well, there goes three hours of farming."
C: "Can I haz ur stuff?"
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Can you imagine an agent getting payed to play WoW, then going home and being asked what you did today to protect the USA?
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EDIT Couldn't insurgents just set up a password protected Counter Strike server? Terrorists Win and such.
Art is life itself.
Honestly, it doesn't matter. As bLatch said, if they don't monitor it, the terrorists will likely use it. This move could be preemptive and still be the smart thing to do.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Some games have started to have voice comms in game - as in EvE (I'm sure there are others).
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
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I dont think anyone will be sent to gitmo just for ganking a player that happened to be an agent...
They are doing this because a few targets have been known to play a certain game, they weren't doing anything nefarious just playing like anyone else.
Actually, this is exactly what I've been thinking for years, that if I ever 'broke bad', that's how I would do it. It's forums and chatrooms and online games that will be the methods of communication for the future.
Online games are perfect for this because they're innocuous, they don't store your chat logs on the computer, etc.
No, separating the wheat from the chaff... well, good luck. It's incredibly hard to monitor for that reason, too.
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I believe I remember UO (Ultima Online) having .txt files in your generic folder save events and PMs (convos were bubbles above your head, but PMs were direct screen to screen).
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Chat logs might not be stored on your computer, but they are stored. This is why it is so retarded to "send agents into a game", if you have a suspect that plays a game you can request (with or without warrant) there chat logs from Blizzard or whomever.
Warning for inappropriate use of "retarded"
It may be a waste but I can see why they want to try it.
Sure they could just ask for the logs of player they suspect... but what if they dont know who to suspect?
Actually being in game is probably more about pattern recognition and finding people coming into the game that dont fit typical players patterns than it is about spying on a particular person. They are looking for things like that group of guys that just show up online in town together to chat privately and never seem to make any progress despite being online a lot...
once again though, couldn't that be done just by asking the company for data that they could use to compare time online vs progress? Being in game seems absurdly inefficient.
Some people play for the social aspect.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
maybe... and it's possible that they do.
I think a lot can be gained though by being in game and gaining the trust of other players. I would bet that there are people you can talk to in WOW to eventually lead you to drugs, porn, other illegal resources... These people might not just stick out like a sore thumb and be easy to find through log files. Especially when you consider the ridiculous number of logs files that exist. And as has been mentioned some of these people might be smart enough to keep any nefarious chatter in a more secure medium and only use the game as a way to find clients.
Let's assume you are a terrorist cell.
You are now retired, because you have already defeated the US in every meaningful way.
Terrorists succeeded in one act against us, and since then haven't had to do anything, because we have destroyed our own way of life on their behalf.
Also, the idea that terrorists are using world of warcraft(or any mmo) for this is a complete joke that only our inclusive paranoid government could ever take seriously.
Patriot Act, NDAA, expansions of Hoover era spy tactics on US citizens, etc. etc.
The terrorists won. They won handily. Out of paranoia and fear, we threw away the things that made us who we were. We've been slowly throwing it away ever since LBJ, but maybe even since Teddy.
9/11 just accelerated it tenfold.
Every police car will soon be a anti-riot-suv with a gun turret and data searching facial recognition cameras all over it. The Boston lock-down was a practice run.
Go back to your tinfoil lined bunker IcecreamMan, you're drunk.
Thanks to Xenphire @ Inkfox for the amazing new sig
“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
It's not the NSA's mandate to find drugs, porn, or other "illegal resources" (porn is illegal? O_o).
"Gaining the trust of the players." Would that entail playing the game? I hope to god my tax money is not going towards paying NSA agents to play WOW all day just to "gain the trust" of people who might not even know the identity of other players.
Honestly, this idea is so stupid I thought the Onion, the Daily Show, or College Humor wrote it. The fact this story might actually be real is...beyond absurd.
Win!
QFT. The idea that we need counter-terrorism agents trolling around ****ing World of Warcraft is so patently absurd I couldn't read the article with a straight face. The NSA is watching me farm for EXP? I feel safer already. Talk about jumping the shark.
It's interesting that a society obsessed with misquoting 1984 isn't more outraged with the enormous amount of clout that the NSA has been given to intrude into their daily lives. It's trite, I know. It's just something I've noticed.
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Annul is really good in EDH