Years ago I was at a poker tournament. I was much younger than everyone else at the table (much younger than I am now :)) and some of the older folks asked me how I got into poker.
I said something to the effect of; “I’ve always loved cards. Ever since I was a kid I’ve played every card game I could get my hands on euchre, poker, uno, Magic…”
A heavy set older man with a huge (I’m talking huge) crucifix around his neck replied: “Magic? That’s satanic stuff!”
I laughed in his face… until I realized he wasn’t joking. I replied: “Not at all, its math and strategy, just like poker. The game is different but, at its core, it’s all logic and problem solving just like any other card game.”
“If its ‘magic’, its Satanic…” he replied.
I shrugged my shoulders and played cards. I’m an atheist so I didn’t really see any point in continuing the discussion. He wasn’t going to be enlightened by a 20-something kid and I wasn’t about to have a religious epiphany inspired by an old fat dude wearing a Flavor-Flave crucifix.
I've been persecuted because of my religion but never because of Magic. I'm a christian and I play. There are a few people that are a bit... shall we say 'over the top' about it.
Only takes right time, right place for the comments to ensue. Most Christians that tend to do that are the evangelicals who don't read much outside of Christian literature and maybe history about the Middle East but don't consume too many pagan works. Some of the more scholarly Christians I've met that have read mythology and the like, tend to be the ones that just go sort of "meh it's just a game" or "meh, that's just literature."
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Umm I'm pretty sure it isn't the strongly held beliefs of the majority of the human race. It is a large chunk, but not "the majority".
Anyway I haven't ever really encountered anyone who has told me not to play mtg because of demons and whatnot. Although I haven't ever really seen a devoutly christian person at any of the stores in the area. Maybe they just don't show up?
The person who mentioned there being a difference between religious and cultural/family-related beliefs hit the nail on the head, I think. It is likely that someone the lady respects in religious circle said something about magic being demonic or whatever (note that person likely obtained their knowledge in the same way) and she blindly accepted it.
Fwiw, I am Christian but often feel like things like this terribly misrepresent Christian ideals. I wonder if she has taken a look at her behaviors and applied the same standards to herself. Looking at and criticizing others is not a Christian tenet, though many Christians do exhibit this behavior.
Umm I'm pretty sure it isn't the strongly held beliefs of the majority of the human race. It is a large chunk, but not "the majority"
The Non-Religious only represent about 11% of the World's population. (World Factbook Citation). By any metric 89% of a population is 'the majority'. Note that the comment is about 'religion', even though by 'religion', most western people ethno-centrically mean Abrahamic Faiths. In either case, those beliefs make up more than half the world population.
Please take future questions, comments or concerns about mod actions to my help desk, don't bring them up here where it can potentially derail the thread. I try to explain why I'm giving an infraction when I give it to avoid the confusion that sometimes arises from carded posts.
Anyway I haven't ever really encountered anyone who has told me not to play mtg because of demons and whatnot. Although I haven't ever really seen a devoutly christian person at any of the stores in the area. Maybe they just don't show up?
And what does a devoutly Christian person look like? I am "devoutly Christian", but there's nothing about my appearance or even my demeanor that would indicate that.
I don't wear a crucifix, nor do I go about asking every pod at FNM if they want Jesus. In other words, most Christians, even (maybe especially) the devout ones, are not necessarily that different from you in terms of how they look or conduct themselves.
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And what does a devoutly Christian person look like? I am "devoutly Christian", but there's nothing about my appearance or even my demeanor that would indicate that.
I don't wear a crucifix, nor do I go about asking every pod at FNM if they want Jesus. In other words, most Christians, even (maybe especially) the devout ones, are not necessarily that different from you in terms of how they look or conduct themselves.
Interesting. From the people that I have met that claim they are devout christians it is very apparent not by looks, but by the fact that they bring it up all the time. They always bring up things like church or what they did with their church groups even if they conversation has little relevance to such things. I have about 3 or 4 friends like this and know quite a few more from school/work/sports.
Interesting. From the people that I have met that claim they are devout christians it is very apparent not by looks, but by the fact that they bring it up all the time. They always bring up things like church or what they did with their church groups even if they conversation has little relevance to such things. I have about 3 or 4 friends like this and know quite a few more from school/work/sports.
Perhaps you're conflating "devout" and "evangelical"?
Interesting. From the people that I have met that claim they are devout christians it is very apparent not by looks, but by the fact that they bring it up all the time. They always bring up things like church or what they did with their church groups even if they conversation has little relevance to such things. I have about 3 or 4 friends like this and know quite a few more from school/work/sports.
Yeah, I'm familiar with that sort of attitude too. Maybe I'm wrong, but when I see christians act that way around non Christians, it just strikes me as passive aggressive proselytizing. At that point, why not just be direct and ask people if they wanna come to church? That would at least be honest.
I get that there is a mandate within my faith to share Christ. But how does a christian do that effectively? Surely, talking to people about Jesus against their will isn't effective. I find that trying to live my life in a way that honors my faith speaks for itself. My non Christian friends know I wont try to convert them, and it has led to very natural, mutually enjoyable conversations about faith for all.
Not that I have it all figured out, but that is what has worked in my relationships.
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Yeah, I'm familiar with that sort of attitude too. Maybe I'm wrong, but when I see christians act that way around non Christians, it just strikes me as passive aggressive proselytizing. At that point, why not just be direct and ask people if they wanna come to church? That would at least be honest.
It's a bit of a fine line, but it depends one the spirit in which it's done. If it's in a "hey I can sneakily work church into the conversation here" kind of way, well that's a bit deceitful and dickish way to go about things.
However, much of the times people just talk about that stuff because, that's their life. What else are they supposed to talk about? When having a conversation you talk about your life and your experiences, and a lot of what they've been doing just happens to be church related or involved doing things with people who go to their church. No hidden agenda, just talking about life.
Maybe, do evangelicals call themselves evangelicals? Or is it a negative connotation?
Evangelicals are basically everyone who isn't Catholic. It's almost another way of saying Protestant. There is some debate about which denominations actually are evangelical, but 'not Catholic' is a pretty good dividing line.
Most people use 'Evangelical' to refer to Churches without a central authority (like most Mega-churches), that tend to have a bad reputation for rich pastors and far more extreme views on certain social issues (homosexuality, for instance) so it can be taken in a variety of ways.
My Aunt saw me updating my deck after FNM and saw the cards. She told me I was doing devil's work playing that game.
I told her she worked as an auditor for the IRS and now as the auditor for her church's missionaries. She told me not be a smart ass and never said a word about it again.
@OP- let it go and view these people as entertainment. Also, don't go Denny's cause that was your first mistake. There has to be somewhere else in the universe to eat/hang out at.
My friend was teaching his buddies to play magic and there mom thought he was teaching them wichcraft so that they would start summoning demons in real life! It was so crazy and does not even make sense because there are way better creatures to summon from Magic than demons so who would even bother with that in real life? I dont get it at all...
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I said something to the effect of; “I’ve always loved cards. Ever since I was a kid I’ve played every card game I could get my hands on euchre, poker, uno, Magic…”
A heavy set older man with a huge (I’m talking huge) crucifix around his neck replied: “Magic? That’s satanic stuff!”
I laughed in his face… until I realized he wasn’t joking. I replied: “Not at all, its math and strategy, just like poker. The game is different but, at its core, it’s all logic and problem solving just like any other card game.”
“If its ‘magic’, its Satanic…” he replied.
I shrugged my shoulders and played cards. I’m an atheist so I didn’t really see any point in continuing the discussion. He wasn’t going to be enlightened by a 20-something kid and I wasn’t about to have a religious epiphany inspired by an old fat dude wearing a Flavor-Flave crucifix.
Only takes right time, right place for the comments to ensue. Most Christians that tend to do that are the evangelicals who don't read much outside of Christian literature and maybe history about the Middle East but don't consume too many pagan works. Some of the more scholarly Christians I've met that have read mythology and the like, tend to be the ones that just go sort of "meh it's just a game" or "meh, that's just literature."
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Umm I'm pretty sure it isn't the strongly held beliefs of the majority of the human race. It is a large chunk, but not "the majority".
Anyway I haven't ever really encountered anyone who has told me not to play mtg because of demons and whatnot. Although I haven't ever really seen a devoutly christian person at any of the stores in the area. Maybe they just don't show up?
Fwiw, I am Christian but often feel like things like this terribly misrepresent Christian ideals. I wonder if she has taken a look at her behaviors and applied the same standards to herself. Looking at and criticizing others is not a Christian tenet, though many Christians do exhibit this behavior.
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The Non-Religious only represent about 11% of the World's population. (World Factbook Citation). By any metric 89% of a population is 'the majority'. Note that the comment is about 'religion', even though by 'religion', most western people ethno-centrically mean Abrahamic Faiths. In either case, those beliefs make up more than half the world population.
Please take future questions, comments or concerns about mod actions to my help desk, don't bring them up here where it can potentially derail the thread. I try to explain why I'm giving an infraction when I give it to avoid the confusion that sometimes arises from carded posts.
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And what does a devoutly Christian person look like? I am "devoutly Christian", but there's nothing about my appearance or even my demeanor that would indicate that.
I don't wear a crucifix, nor do I go about asking every pod at FNM if they want Jesus. In other words, most Christians, even (maybe especially) the devout ones, are not necessarily that different from you in terms of how they look or conduct themselves.
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Interesting. From the people that I have met that claim they are devout christians it is very apparent not by looks, but by the fact that they bring it up all the time. They always bring up things like church or what they did with their church groups even if they conversation has little relevance to such things. I have about 3 or 4 friends like this and know quite a few more from school/work/sports.
Perhaps you're conflating "devout" and "evangelical"?
Maybe, do evangelicals call themselves evangelicals? Or is it a negative connotation?
If I talk about say, my love of dogs, does that make me a dog lover?
And the funny thing about relevance is that only people who bring it up think about it.
Yeah, I'm familiar with that sort of attitude too. Maybe I'm wrong, but when I see christians act that way around non Christians, it just strikes me as passive aggressive proselytizing. At that point, why not just be direct and ask people if they wanna come to church? That would at least be honest.
I get that there is a mandate within my faith to share Christ. But how does a christian do that effectively? Surely, talking to people about Jesus against their will isn't effective. I find that trying to live my life in a way that honors my faith speaks for itself. My non Christian friends know I wont try to convert them, and it has led to very natural, mutually enjoyable conversations about faith for all.
Not that I have it all figured out, but that is what has worked in my relationships.
UBW Sharuum
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UR Jhoira
URG Riku
U Vendilion Clique
It's a bit of a fine line, but it depends one the spirit in which it's done. If it's in a "hey I can sneakily work church into the conversation here" kind of way, well that's a bit deceitful and dickish way to go about things.
However, much of the times people just talk about that stuff because, that's their life. What else are they supposed to talk about? When having a conversation you talk about your life and your experiences, and a lot of what they've been doing just happens to be church related or involved doing things with people who go to their church. No hidden agenda, just talking about life.
Evangelicals are basically everyone who isn't Catholic. It's almost another way of saying Protestant. There is some debate about which denominations actually are evangelical, but 'not Catholic' is a pretty good dividing line.
Most people use 'Evangelical' to refer to Churches without a central authority (like most Mega-churches), that tend to have a bad reputation for rich pastors and far more extreme views on certain social issues (homosexuality, for instance) so it can be taken in a variety of ways.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
My mother AND my fiancees mother both think what I'm doing is bad and invites demons into the home.
They are both divorced and not exactly saints.
It confuses me to no end.
Jesus and I are bffzzz, trust me guys, he doesn't care. He'll play magic with me when I get to Heaven, he's probably really good.
Pfft. Someone should tell Jesus mono-white lifegain is a terrible deck.
I told her she worked as an auditor for the IRS and now as the auditor for her church's missionaries. She told me not be a smart ass and never said a word about it again.
@OP- let it go and view these people as entertainment. Also, don't go Denny's cause that was your first mistake. There has to be somewhere else in the universe to eat/hang out at.
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Nicol Bolas is so awesome! And so is Kokusho!
Bolas x Kokusho 4eva!!! <3
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