Every city in the US will eventually file. The economy is completely unsustainable and no own is willing to do what would be required to fix it. No shock here.
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Detroit has been in a persistent vegetative state for 20 years.
The country itself is headed for an implosion. I give us 20 years tops because no one in Washington has the guts to really tell the American people the ugly truth.
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Just read an article out of Milwaukee a few weeks ago that Milwaukee is headed the same way. All the bigger companies that were supporting the city have been moving out of the city to other smaller communities and in some cases out of the state. I will not be surprised when the empire crumbles. Its going to be ugly.
I think there's a wee bit of hyperbole in this thread. The US is not going to "implode" and bankruptcy is certainly not an inevitable outcome for every city in the nation.
Detroit is a very special case, that is pretty much the worst of all scenarios coming together. 50+ years of corrupt politicians, declining industry, shrinking tax base, population flight, and what pushed Detroit over the edge were bad financial deals involving credit swaps and overleveraged borrowing.
The outcome for Detroit absolutely could have been avoided if it had a fiscally responsible government at any time between oh, say, 1960 and today.
Every city in the US will eventually file. The economy is completely unsustainable and no own is willing to do what would be required to fix it. No shock here.
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I'm not surprised at all. Wouldn't be surprised to see Chicago go next.
We need to re-establish the entire financial system.
it isn't the finances it is the fact that state governments and down to the cities have mismanaged their funding for so long that they can no longer function.
They have promised to much to pension funds, healthcare fund, etc ... so that now they spend more money trying to keep up with that than anything else.
They panic so they raise taxes. higher taxes cause businesses and people to move away. when the jobs go you will see an increase in crime rate.
the police can't handle all of the crime and so more people will move.
it is the perfect storm of economic and social collapse.
the city hired a person to try and get the debt problem under control. basically offered pension plans and other creditors about 10 cents on the dollar as a settlement.
they rejected it. so when the city actually files bankruptcy and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. they can pretty much discharge a lot of those debt without paying anything.
they can rework all contacts to more stable positions.
more and more states and cities are going to go this route if they are not able to do something to get their budgets under control.
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I think there's a wee bit of hyperbole in this thread. The US is not going to "implode" and bankruptcy is certainly not an inevitable outcome for every city in the nation.
Detroit is a very special case, that is pretty much the worst of all scenarios coming together. 50+ years of corrupt politicians, declining industry, shrinking tax base, population flight, and what pushed Detroit over the edge were bad financial deals involving credit swaps and overleveraged borrowing.
The outcome for Detroit absolutely could have been avoided if it had a fiscally responsible government at any time between oh, say, 1960 and today.
Detroit is not a special case because it's not the only city that is in financial hell. Plenty of other US cities and even whole states (CA and IL immediately come to mind) are teetering on the brink of insolvency. Detroit really should have filed for bankruptcy years ago; it's just that the city was a dead man walking due to borrowing money constantly until it could no longer do so. Remember, city and state governments don't have a printing press like the federal government does. They can't monetize debt. If city/state governments run up deficits with no end in sight, they eventually have to face the music.
Ultimately, the problem boils down to monumental promises made on public pensions. People are living much longer than they ever have been. It makes no sense to give someone a 6-figure pension with premium healthcare to someone that retires in their early fifties and then goes on to live to 80+. Local and state governments can't support those types of pension programs.
Detroit is not a special case because it's not the only city that is in financial hell. Plenty of other US cities and even whole states (CA and IL immediately come to mind) are teetering on the brink of insolvency. Detroit really should have filed for bankruptcy years ago; it's just that the city was a dead man walking due to borrowing money constantly until it could no longer do so. Remember, city and state governments don't have a printing press like the federal government does. They can't monetize debt. If city/state governments run up deficits with no end in sight, they eventually have to face the music.
Standards and Poor gave their nod of approval to the most recent California budget. It really isn't that bad here. Especially as the housing market picks back up, California will benefit the most as we have the most people.
it isn't the finances it is the fact that state governments and down to the cities have mismanaged their funding for so long that they can no longer function.
They have promised to much to pension funds, healthcare fund, etc ... so that now they spend more money trying to keep up with that than anything else.
They panic so they raise taxes. higher taxes cause businesses and people to move away. when the jobs go you will see an increase in crime rate.
the police can't handle all of the crime and so more people will move.
it is the perfect storm of economic and social collapse.
the city hired a person to try and get the debt problem under control. basically offered pension plans and other creditors about 10 cents on the dollar as a settlement.
they rejected it. so when the city actually files bankruptcy and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. they can pretty much discharge a lot of those debt without paying anything.
they can rework all contacts to more stable positions.
more and more states and cities are going to go this route if they are not able to do something to get their budgets under control.
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Chicago gets down graded credit rating on 19th. They have the second highest unemployment rate and are laying off 21,000 teachers and admin in the public school system. They have some of the highest city taxes in the country. Detroit may just be the tip of the iceberg. Cities filing bankruptcy may be the only way to save those cities, how ever many there are.
it isn't the finances it is the fact that state governments and down to the cities have mismanaged their funding for so long that they can no longer function.
They have promised to much to pension funds, healthcare fund, etc ... so that now they spend more money trying to keep up with that than anything else.
They panic so they raise taxes. higher taxes cause businesses and people to move away. when the jobs go you will see an increase in crime rate.
the police can't handle all of the crime and so more people will move.
it is the perfect storm of economic and social collapse.
the city hired a person to try and get the debt problem under control. basically offered pension plans and other creditors about 10 cents on the dollar as a settlement.
they rejected it. so when the city actually files bankruptcy and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. they can pretty much discharge a lot of those debt without paying anything.
they can rework all contacts to more stable positions.
more and more states and cities are going to go this route if they are not able to do something to get their budgets under control.
You'd be surprised, it varies from city to city, but the general problem with most modern cities is that the rich have left the city - it isn't so much that they city is spending too much, it's that the tax base they had to afford that spending has fled over a relatively short period of time (one or two decades), leaving only the poor people who need extra funding. This is an oversimplification of course, but I think you all get what I mean.
it isn't the finances it is the fact that state governments and down to the cities have mismanaged their funding for so long that they can no longer function.
They have promised to much to pension funds, healthcare fund, etc ... so that now they spend more money trying to keep up with that than anything else.
So its just the states and cities fiscal irresponsibility that is the culprit here? It has no correlation to our financial system being debt based?
Maybe there is more to it...
more and more states and cities are going to go this route if they are not able to do something to get their budgets under control.
It seems ironic that as Detroit goes bankrupt, and as all our wealth is slowly but surely leeched out of us, that our banks are showing exorbitant profits...
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"Define Irony: Bunch of idiots dancing on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash"
So its just the states and cities fiscal irresponsibility that is the culprit here? It has no correlation to our financial system being debt based?
Maybe there is more to it...
Not really. If someone eats poison, it doesn't mean food is a bad idea.
You need to be very careful when talking about specific financial situation, finances are almost always incredibly unique to the situation, and it's easy (but often incorrect) to extrapolate broad conclusions from single data points.
Stuff like
- it's not the only city that is in financial hell.
- Plenty of other US cities and even whole states are teetering on the brink of insolvency
- Detroit may just be the tip of the iceberg
- the general problem with most modern cities is that the rich have left the city
Are just alarmist chicken little slogans. Please provide sources to back up sweeping claims like that.
There are approximately 25,000 cities in the US (depending on how you define "city"). 8 out of 25,000. You can't look at that data and say things like "The country itself is headed for an implosion." or "Every city in the US will eventually file. The economy is completely unsustainable". That's simply disingenuous.
Please do the research and observe the facts and based your information on those, not uninformed opinion or mob financial anger (which 99% of the time is just financial jealously). Banks profits have nothing at all to do with Detroit. Populist rage doesn't solve any problems.
Detroits problems were completely solvable. They simply lacks the leadership to solve it while it got worse and worse. This is a failure of the political system, not the financial one.
You need to be very careful when talking about specific financial situation, finances are almost always incredibly unique to the situation, and it's easy (but often incorrect) to extrapolate broad conclusions from single data points.
Stuff like
- it's not the only city that is in financial hell.
- Plenty of other US cities and even whole states are teetering on the brink of insolvency
- Detroit may just be the tip of the iceberg
- the general problem with most modern cities is that the rich have left the city
Are just alarmist chicken little slogans. Please provide sources to back up sweeping claims like that.
I made no such claims... I merely pointed out the irony of the big picture.
There are approximately 25,000 cities in the US (depending on how you define "city"). 8 out of 25,000. You can't look at that data and say things like "The country itself is headed for an implosion." or "Every city in the US will eventually file. The economy is completely unsustainable". That's simply disingenuous.
Please do the research and observe the facts and based your information on those, not uninformed opinion or mob financial anger (which 99% of the time is just financial jealously). Banks profits have nothing at all to do with Detroit. Populist rage doesn't solve any problems.
Out of those 25000 cities, how many went bankrupt prior to 2010? Pretty sure that statistics can be um, manipulated... How about looking past the pretty pictures and actually looking at the reality of things?
Detroits problems were completely solvable. They simply lacks the leadership to solve it while it got worse and worse. This is a failure of the political system, not the financial one.
I find it somewhat hypocritical that you dismiss claims based on a lack of sources and then make your own outlandish claim. If Detroit was "completely solvable", why did it go bankrupt?
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"Now you're talking semantics. What if I told you insane was working 50 hours a week in some office for 50 years, at the end of which they tell you to piss off... Ending up in some retirement village, hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time. Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?"
"Define Irony: Bunch of idiots dancing on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash"
I'm sure everything in Rome looked pretty okay just before it took a harsh and abrupt nosedive.
8/25,000
Well that looks awesome, that's like less than 0.004%
The reality though is that countless cities right now are doing the exact same things that led to the fall of Detriot.
Driving manufacturing jobs away, debt spending like crazy, giving huge salaries and bonuses to the top positions, laying off police, teachers, and public works, making closed door deals with their friends and falling further into corruption, voting for special interests instead of for their constituents, raising taxes because it's the only thing they know how to do, and so much more
Just because they haven't claimed BK (yet), and just because the shiny veneer they have painted over the dirt has not yet peeled away doesn't mean anything.
When it does, it will be a cruel ***** to watch.
Detroit died a long time ago and was kept on life support, until they finally pulled the plug. I can name a few cities that are on it now.
It's about having record profits in the money sector, but no actual growth in manufacturing, engineering, or the production of real goods.
There are so many factors, but the truth is there if you're willing to do the research.
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are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
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So its just the states and cities fiscal irresponsibility that is the culprit here? It has no correlation to our financial system being debt based?
Maybe there is more to it...
I get so sick of hearing this.
There are two sides to every transaction. Also debt only exists if money is borrowed.
Which is half the problem with governments from cities to the federal government. they are constantly borrowing money to prop up their finances until they can't pay the debt anymore.
no one is instantly in debt. there are some states running surpluses.
from what I have seen there are about 8 that are going to run surpluses.
which means they don't have to borrow and get in more debt.
they can start paying that debt off which means more income for the state itself as it's debt grows smaller.
If Detroit was "completely solvable", why did it go bankrupt?
pretty simple. the guy they hired to solve the problem tried. The offer was 5-10 cents on the dollar for all outstanding debt to be resolved.
the creditors rejected the offer.
so now the city claims bankruptcy. it doesn't have to pay any of it.
it can rework any and all pension and other contracts as needed to rid itself of un-sustainable payments.
Driving manufacturing jobs away, debt spending like crazy, giving huge salaries and bonuses to the top positions, laying off police, teachers, and public works, making closed door deals with their friends and falling further into corruption, voting for special interests instead of for their constituents, raising taxes because it's the only thing they know how to do, and so much more
Manufacturing in the US has been dead for a while. it is just to expensive to make anything here.
unless you are in a specialty market and can afford to do it. I agree Detroit and MI in general under their last Gov. chased off a lot of people with how things were ran that made it worse.
MI has other issues with the unions up there. Companies are tired of dealing with them so they are moving operations to right to work states where unions don't have as much influence. paying enough so that people won't want to join a union and are saving money as well.
that is just part of the problem. the high crime rate in Detroit is just as bad or worse.
many people left for the suburbs and left the city to lower income and criminals pretty much. this hurt taxation base as people moved away which is typical of a large city.
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"Although most of the U.S. economy is composed of services, the United States is the world's largest manufacturer, with a 2009 industrial output of US$2.33 trillion. Its manufacturing output is greater than of Germany, France, India, and Brazil combined."
"Although most of the U.S. economy is composed of services, the United States is the world's largest manufacturer, with a 2009 industrial output of US$2.33 trillion. Its manufacturing output is greater than of Germany, France, India, and Brazil combined."
Low skill manufacturing jobs were largely replaced by machines. It's not even 'outsourcing', it's 'robots do 90% of the work and we replaced the other 10% with engineers'. There's still plenty of manufacturing in the US, but blue collar manufacturing is no longer viable economically, and is even starting to get squeezed out in China by automation. Even if all those plants were still located in Detroit, there'd be less than 10,000 jobs operating them.
Manufacturing hasn't been obsoleted any more than finance is the future face of business. For all the flak that sector has received, its most damning condemnation is that they haven't yet managed to exceed the profitability of index funds for investors. The only people really profiting from these instruments are the financiers themselves.
"Although most of the U.S. economy is composed of services, the United States is the world's largest manufacturer, with a 2009 industrial output of US$2.33 trillion. Its manufacturing output is greater than of Germany, France, India, and Brazil combined."
You do realize the difference between manufacturing output, and manufacturing jobs right.
I specifically said "manufacturing jobs" for a reason.
Sure, we still make plenty of stuff in the U.S. But we do it with as few warm bodies as possible.
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Low skill manufacturing jobs were largely replaced by machines. It's not even 'outsourcing', it's 'robots do 90% of the work and we replaced the other 10% with engineers'. There's still plenty of manufacturing in the US, but blue collar manufacturing is no longer viable economically, and is even starting to get squeezed out in China by automation. Even if all those plants were still located in Detroit, there'd be less than 10,000 jobs operating them.
Manufacturing hasn't been obsoleted any more than finance is the future face of business. For all the flak that sector has received, its most damning condemnation is that they haven't yet managed to exceed the profitability of index funds for investors. The only people really profiting from these instruments are the financiers themselves.
This is true. there is very little in the way of a person doing manufacturing. Depending on the place you still have welders etc but is it mostly machines. you don't have 100 people on an assembly line anymore doing there little job. you have machines that run it.
while this has decreased the amount of people needed it has called for more experienced people to run the machines.
on the finance side I agree as well. I have yet to see any finance product actually make money for the people that buy it. the finance person makes a ton of cash on the commission that he gets and he is about the only one that makes anything.
which is why it is usually better to go with a fee based manager instead of a commission based one.
in the end Detroit and MI in general along with a few other states have set itself up for failure by not addressing what I needed to be profitable.
The city I live in is getting the same way which is why I wish I could move away from here. Go some where else.
I would like to move to Austin. We will see what happens.
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You do realize the difference between manufacturing output, and manufacturing jobs right.
I specifically said "manufacturing jobs" for a reason.
Sure, we still make plenty of stuff in the U.S. But we do it with as few warm bodies as possible.
Of course they would do it with as few people as possible. Any business strives to not need too many extra people. It is the fact that we have very efficient capital that has gotten rid of many of the good paying manufacturing jobs. It isn't because China does it cheaper (they got the low skilled manufacturing jobs that didn't pay as much) and it isn't because of hostile regulations on part of local, state, and federal government. It is because they just don't need the people to manufacture the amount they want to.
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http://www.cnbc.com/id/100764427
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/18/us-usa-detroit-bankruptcy-idUSBRE96H16O20130718
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/18/detroit-prepares-bankruptcy-filing-friday/2552819/
Personally, I'm not shocked that this has happened. It was only a matter of time before the city of Detroit was finally brought to its knees.
- Willy Wonka
The Quote function doesn't work for me on this forum. Sorry for any confusion created.
Detroit has been in a persistent vegetative state for 20 years.
The country itself is headed for an implosion. I give us 20 years tops because no one in Washington has the guts to really tell the American people the ugly truth.
Thanks to Xenphire @ Inkfox for the amazing new sig
“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
Detroit was a no brainer the city is a cesspool and no one wants to live there or do business.
It is about like NY city was before Rudy cleaned it out. All the criminal elements must have moved to Detroit.
they depended to much on the auto industry to keep them going.
they didn't build anything else up.
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Detroit is a very special case, that is pretty much the worst of all scenarios coming together. 50+ years of corrupt politicians, declining industry, shrinking tax base, population flight, and what pushed Detroit over the edge were bad financial deals involving credit swaps and overleveraged borrowing.
The outcome for Detroit absolutely could have been avoided if it had a fiscally responsible government at any time between oh, say, 1960 and today.
Care to expand on that claim?
We need to re-establish the entire financial system.
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it isn't the finances it is the fact that state governments and down to the cities have mismanaged their funding for so long that they can no longer function.
They have promised to much to pension funds, healthcare fund, etc ... so that now they spend more money trying to keep up with that than anything else.
They panic so they raise taxes. higher taxes cause businesses and people to move away. when the jobs go you will see an increase in crime rate.
the police can't handle all of the crime and so more people will move.
it is the perfect storm of economic and social collapse.
the city hired a person to try and get the debt problem under control. basically offered pension plans and other creditors about 10 cents on the dollar as a settlement.
they rejected it. so when the city actually files bankruptcy and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. they can pretty much discharge a lot of those debt without paying anything.
they can rework all contacts to more stable positions.
more and more states and cities are going to go this route if they are not able to do something to get their budgets under control.
Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around.
Thanks to Nex3 for the avatar visit ye old sig and avatar forum
Detroit is not a special case because it's not the only city that is in financial hell. Plenty of other US cities and even whole states (CA and IL immediately come to mind) are teetering on the brink of insolvency. Detroit really should have filed for bankruptcy years ago; it's just that the city was a dead man walking due to borrowing money constantly until it could no longer do so. Remember, city and state governments don't have a printing press like the federal government does. They can't monetize debt. If city/state governments run up deficits with no end in sight, they eventually have to face the music.
Ultimately, the problem boils down to monumental promises made on public pensions. People are living much longer than they ever have been. It makes no sense to give someone a 6-figure pension with premium healthcare to someone that retires in their early fifties and then goes on to live to 80+. Local and state governments can't support those types of pension programs.
Standards and Poor gave their nod of approval to the most recent California budget. It really isn't that bad here. Especially as the housing market picks back up, California will benefit the most as we have the most people.
"It isn't the finances, it's the finances."
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You'd be surprised, it varies from city to city, but the general problem with most modern cities is that the rich have left the city - it isn't so much that they city is spending too much, it's that the tax base they had to afford that spending has fled over a relatively short period of time (one or two decades), leaving only the poor people who need extra funding. This is an oversimplification of course, but I think you all get what I mean.
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So its just the states and cities fiscal irresponsibility that is the culprit here? It has no correlation to our financial system being debt based?
Maybe there is more to it...
It seems ironic that as Detroit goes bankrupt, and as all our wealth is slowly but surely leeched out of us, that our banks are showing exorbitant profits...
Not really. If someone eats poison, it doesn't mean food is a bad idea.
You need to be very careful when talking about specific financial situation, finances are almost always incredibly unique to the situation, and it's easy (but often incorrect) to extrapolate broad conclusions from single data points.
Stuff like
- it's not the only city that is in financial hell.
- Plenty of other US cities and even whole states are teetering on the brink of insolvency
- Detroit may just be the tip of the iceberg
- the general problem with most modern cities is that the rich have left the city
Are just alarmist chicken little slogans. Please provide sources to back up sweeping claims like that.
Since 2010, a total of 8 cities have gone bankrupt, Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/07/18/detroit-isnt-alone-the-u-s-cities-that-have-gone-bankrupt-in-one-map/
There are approximately 25,000 cities in the US (depending on how you define "city"). 8 out of 25,000. You can't look at that data and say things like "The country itself is headed for an implosion." or "Every city in the US will eventually file. The economy is completely unsustainable". That's simply disingenuous.
Please do the research and observe the facts and based your information on those, not uninformed opinion or mob financial anger (which 99% of the time is just financial jealously). Banks profits have nothing at all to do with Detroit. Populist rage doesn't solve any problems.
Detroits problems were completely solvable. They simply lacks the leadership to solve it while it got worse and worse. This is a failure of the political system, not the financial one.
The food I think you're referring to is the poison... Not sure because your metaphor is a bit confusing...
I made no such claims... I merely pointed out the irony of the big picture.
Out of those 25000 cities, how many went bankrupt prior to 2010? Pretty sure that statistics can be um, manipulated... How about looking past the pretty pictures and actually looking at the reality of things?
I find it somewhat hypocritical that you dismiss claims based on a lack of sources and then make your own outlandish claim. If Detroit was "completely solvable", why did it go bankrupt?
I'm sure everything in Rome looked pretty okay just before it took a harsh and abrupt nosedive.
8/25,000
Well that looks awesome, that's like less than 0.004%
The reality though is that countless cities right now are doing the exact same things that led to the fall of Detriot.
Driving manufacturing jobs away, debt spending like crazy, giving huge salaries and bonuses to the top positions, laying off police, teachers, and public works, making closed door deals with their friends and falling further into corruption, voting for special interests instead of for their constituents, raising taxes because it's the only thing they know how to do, and so much more
Just because they haven't claimed BK (yet), and just because the shiny veneer they have painted over the dirt has not yet peeled away doesn't mean anything.
When it does, it will be a cruel ***** to watch.
Detroit died a long time ago and was kept on life support, until they finally pulled the plug. I can name a few cities that are on it now.
It's about having record profits in the money sector, but no actual growth in manufacturing, engineering, or the production of real goods.
There are so many factors, but the truth is there if you're willing to do the research.
Thanks to Xenphire @ Inkfox for the amazing new sig
“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
I get so sick of hearing this.
There are two sides to every transaction. Also debt only exists if money is borrowed.
Which is half the problem with governments from cities to the federal government. they are constantly borrowing money to prop up their finances until they can't pay the debt anymore.
no one is instantly in debt. there are some states running surpluses.
from what I have seen there are about 8 that are going to run surpluses.
which means they don't have to borrow and get in more debt.
they can start paying that debt off which means more income for the state itself as it's debt grows smaller.
pretty simple. the guy they hired to solve the problem tried. The offer was 5-10 cents on the dollar for all outstanding debt to be resolved.
the creditors rejected the offer.
so now the city claims bankruptcy. it doesn't have to pay any of it.
it can rework any and all pension and other contracts as needed to rid itself of un-sustainable payments.
Manufacturing in the US has been dead for a while. it is just to expensive to make anything here.
unless you are in a specialty market and can afford to do it. I agree Detroit and MI in general under their last Gov. chased off a lot of people with how things were ran that made it worse.
MI has other issues with the unions up there. Companies are tired of dealing with them so they are moving operations to right to work states where unions don't have as much influence. paying enough so that people won't want to join a union and are saving money as well.
that is just part of the problem. the high crime rate in Detroit is just as bad or worse.
many people left for the suburbs and left the city to lower income and criminals pretty much. this hurt taxation base as people moved away which is typical of a large city.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States#Composition
This chart would like to disagree with you Timothy.
Manufacturing hasn't been obsoleted any more than finance is the future face of business. For all the flak that sector has received, its most damning condemnation is that they haven't yet managed to exceed the profitability of index funds for investors. The only people really profiting from these instruments are the financiers themselves.
That chart doesn't disagree with what I said at all. I was pointing out that Mystery was wrong when he said
"Manufacturing in the US has been dead for a while. it is just to [sic] expensive to make anything here."
You do realize the difference between manufacturing output, and manufacturing jobs right.
I specifically said "manufacturing jobs" for a reason.
Sure, we still make plenty of stuff in the U.S. But we do it with as few warm bodies as possible.
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“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
This is true. there is very little in the way of a person doing manufacturing. Depending on the place you still have welders etc but is it mostly machines. you don't have 100 people on an assembly line anymore doing there little job. you have machines that run it.
while this has decreased the amount of people needed it has called for more experienced people to run the machines.
on the finance side I agree as well. I have yet to see any finance product actually make money for the people that buy it. the finance person makes a ton of cash on the commission that he gets and he is about the only one that makes anything.
which is why it is usually better to go with a fee based manager instead of a commission based one.
in the end Detroit and MI in general along with a few other states have set itself up for failure by not addressing what I needed to be profitable.
The city I live in is getting the same way which is why I wish I could move away from here. Go some where else.
I would like to move to Austin. We will see what happens.
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Of course they would do it with as few people as possible. Any business strives to not need too many extra people. It is the fact that we have very efficient capital that has gotten rid of many of the good paying manufacturing jobs. It isn't because China does it cheaper (they got the low skilled manufacturing jobs that didn't pay as much) and it isn't because of hostile regulations on part of local, state, and federal government. It is because they just don't need the people to manufacture the amount they want to.