I don't really want to multi quote all the posts I want to reply to, so I'll just say a few additional bullet points that I think addresses the majority of what people have been saying.
1) First of all, thank you to all who have had serious replies and suggestions thus far. Even if it laced within posts that attack me, I do appreciate it.
2) The poster who said I was more tired of being vilified rather than just being around "non-white people" is correct. I have no problems with people of alternative sexualities, races, genders or creeds. I myself perfectly respectfully allow those around me to believe what they want to believe without ramming my beliefs down their throats. I'm of the belief that you're not harming me, even if I find you squiky, it's none of my business to tell you how to live your life.
However, where I'm from the same courtesy isn't afforded to people like myself, white, straight Christian males. Where you are shamed and berated until you fall in line with their politically correct world view. They justify it by saying "Well you white straight Christian guys have been in charge for thousands of years, so it's about time you got a taste of your own medicine" despite the fact that you know, A- I've done nothing wrong rather than just existing and B- I thought this line of thinking was what liberals have been fighting AGAINST, not trying to subvert into just being reverse racism and sexism.
3) That's what I mean by "where people can just be people". I'm not trying to dehumanize homosexuals or anyone else, but at least in the South I've always heard that there is Southern Hospitality where everyone treats like a neighbor should and children are taught to respect their elders, women respect their husbands and societal norms are just that, the norm.
4) Funnily enough when it comes to the Time Machine comment, I've always told people that I feel like I was born in the wrong generation. My wife and I firmly believe in the normatives of the man being the head of the house and being the breadmaker while the wife stays at home at takes for the kids. So I've often wished we could be blasted back to the 1950's where our traditional values would be praised, rather than shunned and gawked at.
5) Bottom line is, if I can just find a peaceful place to live where I can walk down the road to my suburban neighbor and say "Have a Blessed Day" and they would shout back "We are blessed!" or at least not scowl at me like I just hit a vampire with ultra violet rays, than I would be in heaven on earth.
I don't know about Abilene, but the cities you listed are more liberal than you seem to believe. The southern United States has seen a large migration of people from the rust belt and northeast in the last decade and much of that liberal culture is being brought along. If you want to move to the Bible Belt, and considering your very specific desires, the more rural areas are your best bets (but expect a lower income).
Honestly, I think Montana, Idaho, or the great plain states may be more suited to your liking.
I think you are taking a rather homogenized view of the US. People live to look at statewide electoral maps and say America is a bunch of red and blue states based on "who won the state". But if you color is according to how people actually voted, you realize we live in a purple country. Thinking you can run to the South and be transported to pre Civil War Gone With The Wind is wishful thinking.
I was considering moving to the South for a job opportunity, I spent a weekend in around the area of the Research Triangle in North Carolina, and you know who I saw? Indians. Lots and lots of Indians. Lots of ethic Indian food joints, along with more than a few Hindu and Muslim places of worship.
I believe your ability to feel persecuted is going to follow you wherever you go. I cannot imagine someone being persecuted for being a white, Christian male unless they are doing something to provoke that reaction.
I think it would be a lot cheaper and easier to identify what behavior of yours is drawing out these reactions in people and work on changing that.
but at least in the South I've always heard that there is Southern Hospitality where everyone treats like a neighbor should and children are taught to respect their elders, women respect their husbands and societal norms are just that, the norm.
That is over generalization to the extreme. I think you are kidding yourself if you think you can fly out to some random southern state and get airdropped into 50's-town USA. The south has an incredibly racially and ethnically diverse culture these days, and no offense but your views of that area seem like they were drawn from TV or fiction
I agree with people that a middle of nowhere town in flyover country is probably the best you will find if you are looking to try and live in a homogenous environment.
That is over generalization to the extreme. I think you are kidding yourself if you think you can fly out to some random southern state and get airdropped into 50's-town USA. The south has an incredibly racially and ethnically diverse culture these days, and no offense but your views of that area seem like they were drawn from TV or fiction
as a southerner i can confirm that the south is largely full of white trash and thugs. not everyone, not nearly everyone, but a good amount. i couldn't put numbers to it, but generally wherever you go in the US you're equally likely to find scumbags, it's really a human thing much more than a locational attribute.
You're right, the things I am doing that draw a negative oppressive reaction are the following:
I'm a Christian and I defend my faith when it is attacked.
I'm white and I don't feel guilty for the actions of ancestors 200 years older than me.
I'm a guy and I don't subscribe to the tenants of believing in the Patriarchy and Rape Culture as a thing.
I'm straight and I'm not attracted to people of the same sex or transgenders of the opposite sex.
I'm proud to be American and don't participate in Flag Bashing everytime someone mentions the military.
When you are these combinations of things in California, you are the outsider. If you are white you better be ashamed of your privilege. If you are Christian you better not ever talk about it. If you are a guy you better believe women are better than you. If you are straight you better be into BDSM, open to experimentation or something alternative lest you be branded a bigot.
Somehow, I feel like The Bible Belt will not have nearly as many of these problems as I currently face today.
First, all major metropolitan areas tend to be leftist. Now, moving beyond that there are small towns within the sphere of influence to that area such as NYC or Philly that have very conservative leaning districts. Other cities you've mentioned can and do have pockets of conservative areas. However, as I have grown there are generally shifts in politics even among older groups that change over time. People and areas do shift demographically during your life time.
My best suggestion is to:
1. Find a really good church that fits your ideology that has good people there
2. Have pockets of friends in different areas, if you want to hang with conservatives there are places to meet them. Consider joining your local RNC chapter.
3. Go to multiple churches and get involved with charities that have conservative leaning areas
Frankly, the best Christians I tend to like to see as friends that happen to be open about their religion are the ones that are genuinely nice people that care about their family, friends, and communities.
You'll find that there are also different kinds of conservatives out there, and they have their own quirks that will get on your nerves. Believe me, it may take 20 fricken years, but the people around you will find some way to irritate you.
5) Bottom line is, if I can just find a peaceful place to live where I can walk down the road to my suburban neighbor and say "Have a Blessed Day" and they would shout back "We are blessed!" or at least not scowl at me like I just hit a vampire with ultra violet rays, than I would be in heaven on earth.
You do realize that if you do that in a conservative area, you're still going to get looked at funny, right? I just don't see many conservative people that talk like that a whole lot in public. Certainly people talk more about God, sure, but at some point it's a tad more casual than that sort of thing. The typical response would be more than likely "have a good day" than "we are blessed."
There's also those in the Bible Belt area that will see you with a stick up your ass always talking about God all the time, to a point that it is soulish. Also, you're going to run into rural libertarian strains which also have their own attitudes that do not coincide with social conservatives.
As for rural decay and communities, there are various gangs that have moved out of the city and into the rural areas and now there are areas rampant with drug use as the jobs dry up. Some of these places are a living shell of their former selves, and have no other respite than to wallow in a hell. I'll suggest the book Methland which chronicles one such town.
Have you tried looking for different churches in your area, charities, ect.? Having a small group of friends that you can have talks with would help your worldview and deal with your religious social issues. Some churches do mass better, others have wonderful young professional programs. Look also towards Chambers and other such organizations, they can help you meet more like minded folk.
I think you're disgruntled, and need a change of venue and need to find a good niche. A good niche in getting established is sort of like an ass groove on your computer chair. Sure picking out a "great chair" is possible, but you need to work that ass groove in over the years.
I hope you find the right chair, but remember if you want your ass groove to be the best fit you have to work at it.
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Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
You're right, the things I am doing that draw a negative oppressive reaction are the following:
I'm a Christian and I defend my faith when it is attacked.
I'm white and I don't feel guilty for the actions of ancestors 200 years older than me.
I'm a guy and I don't subscribe to the tenants of believing in the Patriarchy and Rape Culture as a thing.
I'm straight and I'm not attracted to people of the same sex or transgenders of the opposite sex.
I'm proud to be American and don't participate in Flag Bashing everytime someone mentions the military.
When you are these combinations of things in California, you are the outsider. If you are white you better be ashamed of your privilege. If you are Christian you better not ever talk about it. If you are a guy you better believe women are better than you. If you are straight you better be into BDSM, open to experimentation or something alternative lest you be branded a bigot.
Somehow, I feel like The Bible Belt will not have nearly as many of these problems as I currently face today.
How about trying the following?
Be a Christian and be tolerant of people who disagree with your faith
Be white and have empathy for people of other races who suffered due to the color of their skin
Be a guy and don't pay attention to such incredibly fringe notions as Rape Culture
Be straight and support people loving people without judgement.
Be proud to be American and support the right Americans have to express themselves, even if you do not agree
I think it would contribute a lot more to your long term happiness than trying to basically run away from anything in the world you don't agree with. I think you are going to be sorely dissapointed if you think you can fly south and escape to The Donna Reed show. The world you are describing only existed on TV.
Somehow, I feel like The Bible Belt will not have nearly as many of these problems as I currently face today.
No offense, but in my experience, when you think everyone else is the problem, it's usually you. As the Zen quote goes, "When faced with a rough road ahead, it is far easier to put on sandals than try to cover the entire road in soft leather". If you and the world have a problem, don't try and change the world. It's easier to change you.
I can be as respectful and sympathetic and non-judgmental as possible (which are traits I already exhibit, I'm a lot more mellow in real life than the keyboard warrior you talk with on a regular basis on here) and it still doesn't change the hearts and minds of extremists who hate you just for being you.
Which brings me back to the typical justification of "It's your turn to be discriminated against now". Which I always figured was what equal rights activists were fighting against, but what do I know, I'm just a racist sexist white guy.
I can be as respectful and sympathetic and non-judgmental as possible (which are traits I already exhibit, I'm a lot more mellow in real life than the keyboard warrior you talk with on a regular basis on here) and it still doesn't change the hearts and minds of extremists who hate you just for being you.
They why can't you be respectful, sympathetic, and non judgmental about these "extremists?" (which FYI is a very disrespectful, unsympathetic, judgmental term to use)
Which brings me back to the typical justification of "It's your turn to be discriminated against now". Which I always figured was what equal rights activists were fighting against, but what do I know, I'm just a racist sexist white guy.
If you are saying you just walk down the street minding your own business and you have random people walking up to you out of the blue and say "It's your turn to be discriminated against now, you white male Christian!" then I'm sorry but I don't believe you.
You are trying to portray yourself as a victim, while leaving out the role you are playing in the situation. If you conduct yourself in such a way as to seek out prejudice, chances are you will find it. If you want to find things that offend you, chances are you will find them.
Reminds me of the comment Jon Stewart made about Glenn Beck's "Freedom Town": He wasn't looking for freedom FOR things or people he agreed with, he was looking for freedom FROM things or people that he disagreed with. It sounds like that's what you are thinking you can get in the South: not freedom for your beliefs, but freedom from anyone who doesn't share your beliefs. I would submit that your basic goal here is flawed and should be re-examined.
I know this is a bit out of your target zone, but this is a serious suggestion of a place I think you'd like: try Omaha, NE. It's a large enough city to have a thriving economy and plenty of jobs, good suburban neighborhoods, strongly Christian, and is still relatively conservative.
Cities such as Kansas City, KS and Indianapolis, IN will also have much of what you're looking for.
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
They why can't you be respectful, sympathetic, and non judgmental about these "extremists?" (which FYI is a very disrespectful, unsympathetic, judgmental term to use)
If you are saying you just walk down the street minding your own business and you have random people walking up to you out of the blue and say "It's your turn to be discriminated against now, you white male Christian!" then I'm sorry but I don't believe you.
You are trying to portray yourself as a victim, while leaving out the role you are playing in the situation. If you conduct yourself in such a way as to seek out prejudice, chances are you will find it. If you want to find things that offend you, chances are you will find them.
Reminds me of the comment Jon Stewart made about Glenn Beck's "Freedom Town": He wasn't looking for freedom FOR things or people he agreed with, he was looking for freedom FROM things or people that he disagreed with. It sounds like that's what you are thinking you can get in the South: not freedom for your beliefs, but freedom from anyone who doesn't share your beliefs. I would submit that your basic goal here is flawed and should be re-examined.
Uhm, I can be and I am. It's kind of a part of my daily job in customer service to let people yell at me and have it roll off my shoulders. So I save my vitriol for liberalism until I log onto the internets and have a chance to rant about it there.
You're just dead wrong with your perceptions of what happens to me during my daily life since you haven't walked a mile in my shoes and know what I encounter and deal with.
But I can hardly blame you. A guy comes into this forum and starts a thread disagreeing with every single one of your world views and says he's sick of hearing those kind of opinions and it's natural for you to picture me wearing a Klan hood the entire time as I prepare for a good ol' midnight lynching of them there homosexuals.
Just know that you're wrong, and continue to believe that I am evil incarnate. It's no different than the reactions I'm already used to on a daily basis.
We do not know Kraken and in all likelihood we will never know Kraken. He could be an obnoxious person who just invites conflict. Or he could be working or doing business around people who genuinely create a hostile environment for him. He may be especially sensitive because of recent time at, say, a California public university, which would almost certainly expose him to a bunch of young women talking about rape culture. There is no point to trying to assess his personal reasonability.
Many of the comments/suggestions above have been accurate:
Consider moving to a more moderate suburb; for example, if you're in San Fran move to Santa Rosa, not Berkeley.
Make sure you develop relationships with a strong Christian community. To put it bluntly, the fact that you're venting here rather than talking to people in your church doesn't reflect favorably on the Christian side of your "white conservative Christian guy" identity. Consider, especially, becoming part of a genuinely multicultural church, which may stretch you in ways that benefit you in more hostile environments.
Check yourself for offensive behavior.
Reconsider missions and your potential role in California.
Many urban areas in the South have plenty of "liberals." If you want conservative candyland, you won't find it. if you want somewhere more moderate with a greater degree of intellectual and cultural freedom, the South will probably satisfy.
I would add that you should consider the Midwest and the Rockies, which while being less "conservative" than the South still tend to have a freeer intellectual/cultural environment on average than California or the Northeast.
Come to Texas it's got everything you want if you stay out of the big cities and don't mind massive freakin' bugs, horrible summers that last from May to October and exploration into excess! Just get a big ass truck, raise that thing 5 feet off the ground, put giant wheels on it, buy a gun, a few anti-obama/liberal bumper stickers, attach a giant exhaust pipe and drive 105 down the highway with your middle finger out the window and you'll fit right in.:)
Seriously, just move to a quiet suburb that's where the true christian right lives in this country. The country is extremely polarized right now politically, so you'll never escape the hate that people lay down on each other for being left or right of the aisle. It's best to just seek out others like you nearby then uproot your entire life and move because you think the culture will suit you just fine. In reality, people here aren't screaming about liberals and being anti-homosexual. They're just living their lives, being people who just happen to be christian conservatives. There are still liberals, they are still vocal, but you know what? So are the conservatives, and they're no better or worse.
Just deal with it, and if you can't then I don't know what to offer you other than to find a way to escape that doesn't involve moving thousands of miles.
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"I've always been a fan of reality by popular vote" - Stephen Colbert (in response to Don McLeroy)
Just know that you're wrong, and continue to believe that I am evil incarnate. It's no different than the reactions I'm already used to on a daily basis.
Yeah, it's kinda what I thought. Anyone who doesn't think you are right is definitively "wrong", and anyone who doesn't mourn for your plight in life thinks you are "evil incarnate".
I believe you when you say you get these reactions on a daily basis. I would suggest examining what it is about your behavior that evokes these reactions. I don't think your location really has anything to do with it. You are actively seeking out persecution, and finding it. That's fairly location independent.
Echoing what bighaden said, just move to a suburb. But beware that you don't move to somewhere where you're the wrong kind of Christian. Having grown up in Louisiana, they only accept Baptists and Presbyterians there. Get out of there with your Pentacostal nonsense and you're literally Satan if you're Seventh Day Adventist, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or Lutheran.
Kraken, I think what you fail to realize is that no matter where you go there will always be some sort of status quo; some sort of social norms and folkways that you will be criticized for not following. The bible belt has it's own special brand of conformity and social repression. It's not so great living down there if you're a sexual minority or are in a biracial relationship, for example. This notion that you want to find a place that is completely tolerant and accepting is false, because no such place exists. Your choice is really if you want to live among spineless PC knuckleheads or backwards hair-triggered fundamentalists. Pick your poison.
Idealistically, I wish everyone adopted a live and let live philosophy of life. For example, when my highly religious friend says 'God bless' to me, even if I'm an atheist, I'm not offended. I say 'thanks' because his intentions were good. Sadly, this isn't the world we live in. People will always want to find something to disagree or fight with you about and a sudden change of location won't free you from that. If you indeed have a family, then I would suggest you consider what is most equitable for them. Consider your job situation and quality of life. You can't escape criticism, but if you feel as if you stand to tangibly gain something from moving to the bible belt, go right ahead. It's not exactly where I would prefer to live, but to each their own I suppose.
Quote from Valarin »
The world you are describing only existed on TV.
This. I hate to break it to you, but the Leave it to Beaver family structure was somewhat of an American myth. As for time travelling to the 50's, I doubt that would make you much happier. The 50's were actually a time of profound social change where people began to question and push against the traditional values that you cherish. You would have to travel back to pre-World War I at least.
Well I've never been there myself but I've met a few people from Nacogdoches TX and they've all seemed really enthusiastic about living there and all seemed to fit your descriptions as far as their religious beliefs and moral values.
"Nacogdoches was nominated as one of the "Friendliest Towns in America" by Rand McNally and USA Today."
Echoing what bighaden said, just move to a suburb. But beware that you don't move to somewhere where you're the wrong kind of Christian. Having grown up in Louisiana, they only accept Baptists and Presbyterians there. Get out of there with your Pentacostal nonsense and you're literally Satan if you're Seventh Day Adventist, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or Lutheran.
^ So true.
In Buffalo, White folks are either Catholic or Missouri Senate Lutheran(in my LGBT support group ALL the White folks were raised in or current members of one of those groups!) and Black folks are JVW or Pentocostal. All others are pagans and burned at the stake. j/k But you really do have to find where your kind of people live.
One thing you should think about is starting your own group for people who feel the same way you do. I know that there are a lot of people who feel like their connection to their national and ethnic identities are fraying and that there is a breakdown of core values and common decency. The challenge with any group is to keep the fire burning, especially during certain times of year(e.g. the holiday season, spring break, etc). If you do start a group I would advise you to stay away from White nationalism, no matter how similar your goals may be. Nationalist movements that are based on race tend to make you look ignorant. Cultural preservation is a worthy goal but not at the expense of national solidarity.
Yeah, it's kinda what I thought. Anyone who doesn't think you are right is definitively "wrong", and anyone who doesn't mourn for your plight in life thinks you are "evil incarnate".
Funny, because I don't recall calling out "everyone" who has criticized me in this thread, as some people have some valid points to bring.
But you on the other hand, have said I was a horrible person from the start, so it's pretty obvious you've come to picture me in devil's horns and pitch fork.
You've got your own victim blaming picture in your head about how I'm just a bigoted privileged white guy who shouts his faith from the roof tops on a daily basis waiting for the stones to fly in my direction, so that's how you're going to perceive me and treat me.
And I'm telling you, that you're nothing special. Your reaction to me is the same reactions I get from customers and strangers on a daily basis.
So this is the part where you realize you've made your point, I've told you you're wrong, and there's nothing left for you to say. So there's the mature path of moving on and realizing that you're not getting through to this particular individual, or theirs the other path where you stick around and keep stamping your feet insisting that I'm a witch hunting, gay bashing, segregationist bigot who deserves what's happening to him, while the rest of us move on without you.
I don't really want to multi quote all the posts I want to reply to, so I'll just say a few additional bullet points that I think addresses the majority of what people have been saying.
1) First of all, thank you to all who have had serious replies and suggestions thus far. Even if it laced within posts that attack me, I do appreciate it.
2) The poster who said I was more tired of being vilified rather than just being around "non-white people" is correct. I have no problems with people of alternative sexualities, races, genders or creeds. I myself perfectly respectfully allow those around me to believe what they want to believe without ramming my beliefs down their throats. I'm of the belief that you're not harming me, even if I find you squiky, it's none of my business to tell you how to live your life.
However, where I'm from the same courtesy isn't afforded to people like myself, white, straight Christian males. Where you are shamed and berated until you fall in line with their politically correct world view. They justify it by saying "Well you white straight Christian guys have been in charge for thousands of years, so it's about time you got a taste of your own medicine" despite the fact that you know, A- I've done nothing wrong rather than just existing and B- I thought this line of thinking was what liberals have been fighting AGAINST, not trying to subvert into just being reverse racism and sexism.
3) That's what I mean by "where people can just be people". I'm not trying to dehumanize homosexuals or anyone else, but at least in the South I've always heard that there is Southern Hospitality where everyone treats like a neighbor should and children are taught to respect their elders, women respect their husbands and societal norms are just that, the norm.
4) Funnily enough when it comes to the Time Machine comment, I've always told people that I feel like I was born in the wrong generation. My wife and I firmly believe in the normatives of the man being the head of the house and being the breadmaker while the wife stays at home at takes for the kids. So I've often wished we could be blasted back to the 1950's where our traditional values would be praised, rather than shunned and gawked at.
5) Bottom line is, if I can just find a peaceful place to live where I can walk down the road to my suburban neighbor and say "Have a Blessed Day" and they would shout back "We are blessed!" or at least not scowl at me like I just hit a vampire with ultra violet rays, than I would be in heaven on earth.
You have a completly warped view of the South. The South is not, contrary to your beliefs, still in the Victorian era. Like as a Southernor, born, bred, and never leaving, I find your number three borderline offensive and definately ignorant.
You need to move out to the middle of no where in middle america farm country.
Also what does "societal norms are just the norms" even mean? That we're stuck in an antiquated system of morals that is not going to change? When you get to the south, you'll probably find it incredibly cliquey and most people will turn their nose up at a Californian, unless you're in a big city, which will be shockingly to liberal for you.
Just curious Kraken, but have you been living in big cities while on the west coast? If so, I don't think you necessarily need to move to somewhere like the Midwest or the Bible Belt. San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle are probably the three most liberal cities in the US. Outside of those metro areas (and likely Eugene too), there is a lot of "red" in the Pacific NW. It sounds like you just need to move to a more rural area.
Echoing what bighaden said, just move to a suburb. But beware that you don't move to somewhere where you're the wrong kind of Christian. Having grown up in Louisiana, they only accept Baptists and Presbyterians there. Get out of there with your Pentacostal nonsense and you're literally Satan if you're Seventh Day Adventist, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or Lutheran.
I'm from Louisiana. It's probably the most catholic state in the country. You could not be more innacurate.
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I'm from Louisiana. It's probably the most catholic state in the country. You could not be more innacurate.
I doubt that. Places with a significant Hispanic population, like Florida or New Mexico, would be higher for sure. Only 1 million(or 28% of the state population) people in Louisiana identify as Catholic as opposed to roughly 8 million(or 40%) people in New York.
1) First of all, thank you to all who have had serious replies and suggestions thus far. Even if it laced within posts that attack me, I do appreciate it.
2) The poster who said I was more tired of being vilified rather than just being around "non-white people" is correct. I have no problems with people of alternative sexualities, races, genders or creeds. I myself perfectly respectfully allow those around me to believe what they want to believe without ramming my beliefs down their throats. I'm of the belief that you're not harming me, even if I find you squiky, it's none of my business to tell you how to live your life.
However, where I'm from the same courtesy isn't afforded to people like myself, white, straight Christian males. Where you are shamed and berated until you fall in line with their politically correct world view. They justify it by saying "Well you white straight Christian guys have been in charge for thousands of years, so it's about time you got a taste of your own medicine" despite the fact that you know, A- I've done nothing wrong rather than just existing and B- I thought this line of thinking was what liberals have been fighting AGAINST, not trying to subvert into just being reverse racism and sexism.
3) That's what I mean by "where people can just be people". I'm not trying to dehumanize homosexuals or anyone else, but at least in the South I've always heard that there is Southern Hospitality where everyone treats like a neighbor should and children are taught to respect their elders, women respect their husbands and societal norms are just that, the norm.
4) Funnily enough when it comes to the Time Machine comment, I've always told people that I feel like I was born in the wrong generation. My wife and I firmly believe in the normatives of the man being the head of the house and being the breadmaker while the wife stays at home at takes for the kids. So I've often wished we could be blasted back to the 1950's where our traditional values would be praised, rather than shunned and gawked at.
5) Bottom line is, if I can just find a peaceful place to live where I can walk down the road to my suburban neighbor and say "Have a Blessed Day" and they would shout back "We are blessed!" or at least not scowl at me like I just hit a vampire with ultra violet rays, than I would be in heaven on earth.
Honestly, I think Montana, Idaho, or the great plain states may be more suited to your liking.
Good luck.
I was considering moving to the South for a job opportunity, I spent a weekend in around the area of the Research Triangle in North Carolina, and you know who I saw? Indians. Lots and lots of Indians. Lots of ethic Indian food joints, along with more than a few Hindu and Muslim places of worship.
I believe your ability to feel persecuted is going to follow you wherever you go. I cannot imagine someone being persecuted for being a white, Christian male unless they are doing something to provoke that reaction.
I think it would be a lot cheaper and easier to identify what behavior of yours is drawing out these reactions in people and work on changing that.
That is over generalization to the extreme. I think you are kidding yourself if you think you can fly out to some random southern state and get airdropped into 50's-town USA. The south has an incredibly racially and ethnically diverse culture these days, and no offense but your views of that area seem like they were drawn from TV or fiction
I agree with people that a middle of nowhere town in flyover country is probably the best you will find if you are looking to try and live in a homogenous environment.
as a southerner i can confirm that the south is largely full of white trash and thugs. not everyone, not nearly everyone, but a good amount. i couldn't put numbers to it, but generally wherever you go in the US you're equally likely to find scumbags, it's really a human thing much more than a locational attribute.
I'm a Christian and I defend my faith when it is attacked.
I'm white and I don't feel guilty for the actions of ancestors 200 years older than me.
I'm a guy and I don't subscribe to the tenants of believing in the Patriarchy and Rape Culture as a thing.
I'm straight and I'm not attracted to people of the same sex or transgenders of the opposite sex.
I'm proud to be American and don't participate in Flag Bashing everytime someone mentions the military.
When you are these combinations of things in California, you are the outsider. If you are white you better be ashamed of your privilege. If you are Christian you better not ever talk about it. If you are a guy you better believe women are better than you. If you are straight you better be into BDSM, open to experimentation or something alternative lest you be branded a bigot.
Somehow, I feel like The Bible Belt will not have nearly as many of these problems as I currently face today.
My best suggestion is to:
1. Find a really good church that fits your ideology that has good people there
2. Have pockets of friends in different areas, if you want to hang with conservatives there are places to meet them. Consider joining your local RNC chapter.
3. Go to multiple churches and get involved with charities that have conservative leaning areas
Frankly, the best Christians I tend to like to see as friends that happen to be open about their religion are the ones that are genuinely nice people that care about their family, friends, and communities.
You'll find that there are also different kinds of conservatives out there, and they have their own quirks that will get on your nerves. Believe me, it may take 20 fricken years, but the people around you will find some way to irritate you.
You do realize that if you do that in a conservative area, you're still going to get looked at funny, right? I just don't see many conservative people that talk like that a whole lot in public. Certainly people talk more about God, sure, but at some point it's a tad more casual than that sort of thing. The typical response would be more than likely "have a good day" than "we are blessed."
There's also those in the Bible Belt area that will see you with a stick up your ass always talking about God all the time, to a point that it is soulish. Also, you're going to run into rural libertarian strains which also have their own attitudes that do not coincide with social conservatives.
As for rural decay and communities, there are various gangs that have moved out of the city and into the rural areas and now there are areas rampant with drug use as the jobs dry up. Some of these places are a living shell of their former selves, and have no other respite than to wallow in a hell. I'll suggest the book Methland which chronicles one such town.
Have you tried looking for different churches in your area, charities, ect.? Having a small group of friends that you can have talks with would help your worldview and deal with your religious social issues. Some churches do mass better, others have wonderful young professional programs. Look also towards Chambers and other such organizations, they can help you meet more like minded folk.
I think you're disgruntled, and need a change of venue and need to find a good niche. A good niche in getting established is sort of like an ass groove on your computer chair. Sure picking out a "great chair" is possible, but you need to work that ass groove in over the years.
I hope you find the right chair, but remember if you want your ass groove to be the best fit you have to work at it.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
How about trying the following?
Be a Christian and be tolerant of people who disagree with your faith
Be white and have empathy for people of other races who suffered due to the color of their skin
Be a guy and don't pay attention to such incredibly fringe notions as Rape Culture
Be straight and support people loving people without judgement.
Be proud to be American and support the right Americans have to express themselves, even if you do not agree
I think it would contribute a lot more to your long term happiness than trying to basically run away from anything in the world you don't agree with. I think you are going to be sorely dissapointed if you think you can fly south and escape to The Donna Reed show. The world you are describing only existed on TV.
No offense, but in my experience, when you think everyone else is the problem, it's usually you. As the Zen quote goes, "When faced with a rough road ahead, it is far easier to put on sandals than try to cover the entire road in soft leather". If you and the world have a problem, don't try and change the world. It's easier to change you.
Which brings me back to the typical justification of "It's your turn to be discriminated against now". Which I always figured was what equal rights activists were fighting against, but what do I know, I'm just a racist sexist white guy.
They why can't you be respectful, sympathetic, and non judgmental about these "extremists?" (which FYI is a very disrespectful, unsympathetic, judgmental term to use)
If you are saying you just walk down the street minding your own business and you have random people walking up to you out of the blue and say "It's your turn to be discriminated against now, you white male Christian!" then I'm sorry but I don't believe you.
You are trying to portray yourself as a victim, while leaving out the role you are playing in the situation. If you conduct yourself in such a way as to seek out prejudice, chances are you will find it. If you want to find things that offend you, chances are you will find them.
Reminds me of the comment Jon Stewart made about Glenn Beck's "Freedom Town": He wasn't looking for freedom FOR things or people he agreed with, he was looking for freedom FROM things or people that he disagreed with. It sounds like that's what you are thinking you can get in the South: not freedom for your beliefs, but freedom from anyone who doesn't share your beliefs. I would submit that your basic goal here is flawed and should be re-examined.
Cities such as Kansas City, KS and Indianapolis, IN will also have much of what you're looking for.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
Uhm, I can be and I am. It's kind of a part of my daily job in customer service to let people yell at me and have it roll off my shoulders. So I save my vitriol for liberalism until I log onto the internets and have a chance to rant about it there.
You're just dead wrong with your perceptions of what happens to me during my daily life since you haven't walked a mile in my shoes and know what I encounter and deal with.
But I can hardly blame you. A guy comes into this forum and starts a thread disagreeing with every single one of your world views and says he's sick of hearing those kind of opinions and it's natural for you to picture me wearing a Klan hood the entire time as I prepare for a good ol' midnight lynching of them there homosexuals.
Just know that you're wrong, and continue to believe that I am evil incarnate. It's no different than the reactions I'm already used to on a daily basis.
Many of the comments/suggestions above have been accurate:
Consider moving to a more moderate suburb; for example, if you're in San Fran move to Santa Rosa, not Berkeley.
Make sure you develop relationships with a strong Christian community. To put it bluntly, the fact that you're venting here rather than talking to people in your church doesn't reflect favorably on the Christian side of your "white conservative Christian guy" identity. Consider, especially, becoming part of a genuinely multicultural church, which may stretch you in ways that benefit you in more hostile environments.
Check yourself for offensive behavior.
Reconsider missions and your potential role in California.
Many urban areas in the South have plenty of "liberals." If you want conservative candyland, you won't find it. if you want somewhere more moderate with a greater degree of intellectual and cultural freedom, the South will probably satisfy.
I would add that you should consider the Midwest and the Rockies, which while being less "conservative" than the South still tend to have a freeer intellectual/cultural environment on average than California or the Northeast.
Seriously, just move to a quiet suburb that's where the true christian right lives in this country. The country is extremely polarized right now politically, so you'll never escape the hate that people lay down on each other for being left or right of the aisle. It's best to just seek out others like you nearby then uproot your entire life and move because you think the culture will suit you just fine. In reality, people here aren't screaming about liberals and being anti-homosexual. They're just living their lives, being people who just happen to be christian conservatives. There are still liberals, they are still vocal, but you know what? So are the conservatives, and they're no better or worse.
Just deal with it, and if you can't then I don't know what to offer you other than to find a way to escape that doesn't involve moving thousands of miles.
"I've always been a fan of reality by popular vote" - Stephen Colbert (in response to Don McLeroy)
GPolukranos, Kill ALL the Things!G
Yeah, it's kinda what I thought. Anyone who doesn't think you are right is definitively "wrong", and anyone who doesn't mourn for your plight in life thinks you are "evil incarnate".
I believe you when you say you get these reactions on a daily basis. I would suggest examining what it is about your behavior that evokes these reactions. I don't think your location really has anything to do with it. You are actively seeking out persecution, and finding it. That's fairly location independent.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Idealistically, I wish everyone adopted a live and let live philosophy of life. For example, when my highly religious friend says 'God bless' to me, even if I'm an atheist, I'm not offended. I say 'thanks' because his intentions were good. Sadly, this isn't the world we live in. People will always want to find something to disagree or fight with you about and a sudden change of location won't free you from that. If you indeed have a family, then I would suggest you consider what is most equitable for them. Consider your job situation and quality of life. You can't escape criticism, but if you feel as if you stand to tangibly gain something from moving to the bible belt, go right ahead. It's not exactly where I would prefer to live, but to each their own I suppose.
This. I hate to break it to you, but the Leave it to Beaver family structure was somewhat of an American myth. As for time travelling to the 50's, I doubt that would make you much happier. The 50's were actually a time of profound social change where people began to question and push against the traditional values that you cherish. You would have to travel back to pre-World War I at least.
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
"Nacogdoches was nominated as one of the "Friendliest Towns in America" by Rand McNally and USA Today."
^ So true.
In Buffalo, White folks are either Catholic or Missouri Senate Lutheran(in my LGBT support group ALL the White folks were raised in or current members of one of those groups!) and Black folks are JVW or Pentocostal. All others are pagans and burned at the stake. j/k But you really do have to find where your kind of people live.
One thing you should think about is starting your own group for people who feel the same way you do. I know that there are a lot of people who feel like their connection to their national and ethnic identities are fraying and that there is a breakdown of core values and common decency. The challenge with any group is to keep the fire burning, especially during certain times of year(e.g. the holiday season, spring break, etc). If you do start a group I would advise you to stay away from White nationalism, no matter how similar your goals may be. Nationalist movements that are based on race tend to make you look ignorant. Cultural preservation is a worthy goal but not at the expense of national solidarity.
Funny, because I don't recall calling out "everyone" who has criticized me in this thread, as some people have some valid points to bring.
But you on the other hand, have said I was a horrible person from the start, so it's pretty obvious you've come to picture me in devil's horns and pitch fork.
You've got your own victim blaming picture in your head about how I'm just a bigoted privileged white guy who shouts his faith from the roof tops on a daily basis waiting for the stones to fly in my direction, so that's how you're going to perceive me and treat me.
And I'm telling you, that you're nothing special. Your reaction to me is the same reactions I get from customers and strangers on a daily basis.
So this is the part where you realize you've made your point, I've told you you're wrong, and there's nothing left for you to say. So there's the mature path of moving on and realizing that you're not getting through to this particular individual, or theirs the other path where you stick around and keep stamping your feet insisting that I'm a witch hunting, gay bashing, segregationist bigot who deserves what's happening to him, while the rest of us move on without you.
You have a completly warped view of the South. The South is not, contrary to your beliefs, still in the Victorian era. Like as a Southernor, born, bred, and never leaving, I find your number three borderline offensive and definately ignorant.
You need to move out to the middle of no where in middle america farm country.
Also what does "societal norms are just the norms" even mean? That we're stuck in an antiquated system of morals that is not going to change? When you get to the south, you'll probably find it incredibly cliquey and most people will turn their nose up at a Californian, unless you're in a big city, which will be shockingly to liberal for you.
I'm from Louisiana. It's probably the most catholic state in the country. You could not be more innacurate.
I doubt that. Places with a significant Hispanic population, like Florida or New Mexico, would be higher for sure. Only 1 million(or 28% of the state population) people in Louisiana identify as Catholic as opposed to roughly 8 million(or 40%) people in New York.
Pretty sure the middle of Cali is incredibly conservative.
And as long as we're speaking our minds with no filters, just don't move to a swing state. Saving western civilization is hard enough already.