Let me give a little back story to people have some perspective. I know the person who of whom I’m going to speak. I like him, he’s a good kid (guy, but 21 is a kid to me), and we get along very well (lots of similar interests). We’ll call him Rob.
Last weekend I was in a position that required the following:
Confront Rob who was highly intoxicated and who was holding a small caliber hand gun. It was loaded and there was a bullet in the chamber, and his laser scope was on.
The circumstances that surround why he pulled the gun are unimportant. Little to say, his life was in absolutely no danger. He just went insane. More on that later. I entered into the situation when I noticed the laser. It must have traveled a few times through some smoke or something, as it caught my eye from maybe 20 meters away. Then I heard someone say “Put your gun away!!!”. I moved quickly toward Rob and was yelling something to effect of:
“Rob, drop the ****ing gun” over and over.
I moved between him and the guy he was pointed the gun at (who was in a crowd of people that included several friends), then he pointed the gun right at me and made eye contact, but I was close at this point and basically tackled him. Luckily, for whatever reason, he dropped the gun it seemed more or less of his own will. I got up, grabbed the gun while another person worked to restrain Rob as he was now melting down completely. Walking into the house I popped the clip and popped the bullet out the chamber.
At that point I realized that this gun that was pointed at me had no safely. There was a bullet in the chamber and laser was on, meaning his finger was on the trigger. I hid the gun and quickly headed back outside to try and defuse the mayhem that was going on. After separating Rob from the guy that he had been arguing with when he pulled the gun, I restrained Rob like, standing bear hug style, and he lost it again, but it was more an emotional outburst (crying, screaming, anger pointing in no particular direction).
We tried to get him inside but Rob is a strong dude. I’m luckily a little stronger, and also luckily he seemed to be lashing out in general and not directly at me. This went on for about 30 minutes with me preventing him destroying too much of the house (not completely successfully at that). At one point I had to put him in a full nelson and tell him I was going to have to call the cops if he didn’t calm down. That seemed to register and about 5 minutes later, he was perfectly normal, as if nothing had happened.
I haven’t had a chance to sit down and talk with Rob since that night, but I will this weekend. I’m not mad at Rob. I’m worried about him. I know him well enough to know that he would never do the things he did with a clear head. Now I need to know what to say. I have an idea, but I’m no expert. Any input would be appreciated.
As a side note, and not one that I will be debating here (it’s not the debate forum), I used to dislike guns. Now I ****ing hate them. And if someone else had had a gun as well? What a horrible thought, it could have only made the situation worse.
And my mind won't stop racing. What if I hadn't known him? I would have attacked him for sure. It could have been so much worse. In my mind I keep thinking "what if he had pulled the trigger?" Could I still have gotten the gun from him? Better me than someone else. At this point I guess I'm just trying to vent. I haven't talked much about it to anyone, and when hearing the story retold to me by a couple of people that witnessed it I have a bad emotional reaction, but I can't really interpret what I'm feeling, I just know it upsets me. What if I hadn’t been strong enough to constrain this guy and he hurt someone? What if what if what if…..
Should I be mad? I don't feel mad.
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Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
One of you keeps Rob's attention while another at the edge of the crowd slinks around behind him. You'd want the guy sneaking up on Rob to come from behind, at an angle, so that if Rob's finger slipped, the bullet would fire off, away from anyone.
If someone else had a gun, at best Rob would've dropped his gun. At worst, Rob would've dropped it from a cold, dead hand. I'd probably hate Rob more than the gun. Try cutting and lifting to build some confidence. That way you can bertstare that beta FA.
One of you keeps Rob's attention while another at the edge of the crowd slinks around behind him. You'd want the guy sneaking up on Rob to come from behind, at an angle, so that if Rob's finger slipped, the bullet would fire off, away from anyone.
Anyone that's been in a situation like this can tell you that without training (which I don't have) time speeds up. Everything happens fast. Really fast, so fast you have time to react, not plan. It's probably all the way down to a fight or flight response.
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Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
"If you can't something smart, do something right."
-Shepherd Book
What you did was stupid, but you may very well have saved multiple peoples lives. It takes stones (big giant ones) to do something like that. As far as I can tell you were just a friend trying to stop another friend from doing something very very stupid. You're just lucky his finger didn't slip and he's lucky all he got out of it was a semi crappy night. It was a near death experience, I can only imagine you'd have mixed feelings about it.
And Rake, did you even read what he wrote. Some people....
After you're in several of these situations it comes more natural, but you default on what you have been trained if anything, or what has worked in the past.
My best friend has had to remove weapons from his intoxicated brother on more than one occasion.
I'd like to point out also that in your case and the ones I'm describing much alcohol was involved. Perhaps this discussion should be about acceptable limits.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Without proper training you just kinda have to do what you can do.
There are techniques for disarming a guy in a "more safe" way, because with a loaded gun you are never going to have guarantees.
Not that I am an expert but I have taken a course on how to deal with these kind of situations and de-escalation techniques. I also hold a conceal carry permit, but in a situation where I was drinking or around people who were drinking I would not have had my gun on me, and sounds like in this situation having one laoded gun being thrown around was enough.
I probably wouldn't have announced myself or placed myself in front of Robb and instead come at him from behind, making sure the people who were in front of the gun could see me, make eye contact with them so they know what you are doing and giving them opportunity to react. Then go for the wrist and his gun. But this could be the exact wrong answer.
So much depends on his mind set. A soothing word might work better than anything. It takes a lot of training to read these situations. Just be proud that you may have saved somebody's life.
It depends on the person. Time for me slows down in high risk situations. Drinkning and guns never go together and someone should have gone to jail over this (drunk person). Don't be mad at the gun, cause he can be just a dangerous in a car. Certain people handle firearms situation differently and you what you though was best. You may have a touch of PTSD, and thats normal. Don't let early judgments from fear decide your life, such as your hate for guns. Move on, and consider not being in drinking socializations with the drunk anymore.
I haven’t had a chance to sit down and talk with Rob since that night, but I will this weekend. I’m not mad at Rob. I’m worried about him. I know him well enough to know that he would never do the things he did with a clear head. Now I need to know what to say. I have an idea, but I’m no expert. Any input would be appreciated.
What I don't understand in American culture, is why we are so tolerant of surrendering our will to alcohol. I don't think I know a single person who drinks that doesn't have a story of doing something really, really stupid while drunk, yet in most cases these stories don't dissuade them from drinking.
In this case I'm thinking Rob could learn a little better when to cut himself off so he avoids putting himself in a situation where he does not, as you say, "Have a clear head."
What I don't understand in American culture, is why we are so tolerant of surrendering our will to alcohol. I don't think I know a single person who drinks that doesn't have a story of doing something really, really stupid while drunk, yet in most cases these stories don't dissuade them from drinking.
In this case I'm thinking Rob could learn a little better when to cut himself off so he avoids putting himself in a situation where he does not, as you say, "Have a clear head."
It is a world wide issue of stupid public drunks. Some can handle their liquor and the rest entertain millions on Tosh.0 and youtube.
For best results- A hand full of college kids, 4 bottles of Tequila, a tricycle, and cheap ramp.
Are you sure that it was just the alcohol and not a mental illness? If he is mentally ill, he could have a repeat of the episode and this time people could get killed.
Are you sure that it was just the alcohol and not a mental illness? If he is mentally ill, he could have a repeat of the episode and this time people could get killed.
Why didn't anyone call the cops?
Seriously.
To the OP, you sir have balls of plutonium to do what you did. Bravo on potentially saving someones life.
Immediately after disarming him, the police should have been called, he should have been arrested for pointing a gun at innocent people, charges should be pressed, and he should be doing serious jail time on felony weapons charges. One little slip of his finger and either you or another innocent person could have been killed.
Scenarios like this are the exact reason I am anti gun and anti Second Amendment. The EXACT reason.
To the OP, you sir have balls of plutonium to do what you did. Bravo on potentially saving someones life.
Immediately after disarming him, the police should have been called, he should have been arrested for pointing a gun at innocent people, charges should be pressed, and he should be doing serious jail time on felony weapons charges. One little slip of his finger and either you or another innocent person could have been killed.
Scenarios like this are the exact reason I am anti gun and anti Second Amendment. The EXACT reason.
I know a guy that has his conceal and Carry. Wears his gun almost all of the time (when he goes for bike rides, shopping etc..) but when he goes drinking as soon as the car is parked the gun is unloaded, goes in it's case and is put under the seat/in the trunk.
This guy could have been just as dangerous in a car, and would have still been dangerous with a knife.... the problem wasnt the gun it was having a quick temper and being drunk.
Okay, just a quick question: how does the laser being on mean his finger was on the trigger? I know of a laser that you grip the handle firmly.. sounds like Rob has a nice gun.. (which makes me wonder how crazy Rob got a nice gun?)
Anyway, what you did was correct, to an extent. It was good to put yourself between Rob and his victim. Even if Rob woulda shot that guy, and even though he pointed a gun at you, he is much, much, less likely to shoot you. Even in his irrational state.
As for how you detained Rob, that could use some work. Instead of a bear hug, or full nelson, both of which are very breakable, you should have used a rear naked choke.(with body triangle) If Rob is super crazy, Rob could have bit you, and broke your face with head butts. Martial Arts or maybe at minimum a gun extraction class could help. Of course you're not expected to encounter these situations, but preparing is great none the less.
If I put myself in your shoes, I would have started a distraction of Rob with some help of other bystanders. At that point, you need to break his grip on the weapon and get him in a choke. Don't let Rob tire out fighting you. It takes 6 seconds to put someone to sleep.. when he wakes later he should understand why you did so. (Again this all depends on what you know. IF you know a safe break away, grab the gun and point at him. Maybe use a nice tackle like you did if it's the best option. Head kick knockout. Who knows)
If I would have been carrying, one life lost is better than many. If I actually saw Rob's finger on the trigger, it's a hard call how it would have ended. If I couldn't talk Rob down or safely make a attack using my body, I would have put one in Rob's chest. If I felt like Rob wasn't going to do it, I would continue to talk to him while police came on scene, but that could end in suicide by cop. I'd like to just put one in Rob's arm or knee, but then I go to jail because I clearly wasn't afraid fro my life and took the time to aim at a specific point.
Regardless, good job. Keep it up. But be a little more prepared next time.
I know a guy that has his conceal and Carry. Wears his gun almost all of the time (when he goes for bike rides, shopping etc..) but when he goes drinking as soon as the car is parked the gun is unloaded, goes in it's case and is put under the seat/in the trunk.
So someone can break into his car, steal his gun, and put another gun in the hands of a criminal. What a responsible gun owner. And yes, that happens often.
This guy could have been just as dangerous in a car, and would have still been dangerous with a knife.... the problem wasnt the gun it was having a quick temper and being drunk.
Knives and cars serve a purpose to society other than killing people. Guns don't. All it takes is one irresponsible fool taking the life of another person to convince me that guns need to go. One mother losing their child, one person losing their brother or sister, one child losing a parent, any of those are too high a price to pay so gun owners can enjoy shooting things.
The lunatic who pulled a gun and pointed it at the OP should be locked away for a LOOONG time.
In all seriousness, a man who pulls out a gun and waves it around, even while drunk, is a danger to society. My freshmen year of high school, one of my classmates died at a party where a guy did exactly that, 'harmlessly' shot through a wall and killed the guy on the other side.
A person who does that has a serious problem. People don't just drive home drunk once, and I guarantee you another time he gets wasted he will pull out that gun again. It was pretty stupid to confront an unstable guy with a gun, but that gun has to go. He's proven he can't use it responsibly.
In the future, you call the police when crap like this happens. An unstable drunk guy with a gun isn't a one-time mistake.
So someone can break into his car, steal his gun, and put another gun in the hands of a criminal. What a responsible gun owner. And yes, that happens often.
Sure if they happen to know that there is a gun in his car and they want to take the time to cut through the locks on the gun case and trigger guard. The gun is just as safe in his car as it is in his home. Nice try to turn this into a gun control debate though.
Knives and cars serve a purpose to society other than killing people. Guns don't. All it takes is one irresponsible fool taking the life of another person to convince me that guns need to go. One mother losing their child, one person losing their brother or sister, one child losing a parent, any of those are too high a price to pay so gun owners can enjoy shooting things.
Yeah my throwing knives serve a wonderful purpose to society. So do the 1.75 liter bottles of alcohol that routinely end up empty next to dead college and high school kids... What a wonderful service to society those serve. Again nice try to turn this into a heated debate.
Scenarios like this are the exact reason I am anti gun and anti Second Amendment. The EXACT reason.
Faulty reasoning to say all guns and rights associated should be removed. Cars, knives, and girlfriends kill more than guns do. Drunk People will always find a way to injure themselves and others with what is at hand. Stop drinking the Liberal ideologcal koolaid of restricting rights to magically cure a uniquie, constant social problem of public drunkeness.
Are you sure that it was just the alcohol and not a mental illness? If he is mentally ill, he could have a repeat of the episode and this time people could get killed.
Why didn't anyone call the cops?
No one called the cops because it was a small party and everyone knew each other. There was a point when I told him he had to calm down or I'd have to call the cops, and I would have if the situation had not been resolved quickly after that. By the time someone would have called the Cops, the gun was hidden and he was not going to hurt anyone (beside me (which was unlikely), and given his state, I wouldn't press charges for that).
I'm not a shrink, but I don't think he has a mental disorder. I'm sure he could use some counseling though. Little to say, he won't be carrying and drinking around me again, regardless.
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Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
I don't think the OP actually wants advice, I think he is just bragging about this situation, which may or may not have happened as described/happened.
I know a guy that has his conceal and Carry. Wears his gun almost all of the time (when he goes for bike rides, shopping etc..) but when he goes drinking as soon as the car is parked the gun is unloaded, goes in it's case and is put under the seat/in the trunk.
That's great. Most of the time that is proabaly what people do that reason i support gun rights (but it makes me hate guns no less).
This guy could have been just as dangerous in a car, and would have still been dangerous with a knife.... the problem wasnt the gun it was having a quick temper and being drunk.
No, the problem was the gun, clearly.
You move away from a guy with a knife. You can disarm a guy with a knive and even if you get stabbed you're not likely to die (particualry with that many people around, and the same could might be said about guns, but I have the feeling the numbers favor knives). A bullet hole is a completely different ball of wax.
Whether he would have had a gun or knife or been in a car doesn't really matter to me. All of them are dangerous. But I'd rather have a guy point a knife at me, or start up a car and start driving toward me then have a gun pointed at me any day. If you can't say the same...well, I guess we'd have to call it a difference of opinion. At this point though, no one coming to one of my house parties is welcome to bring their gun. They can bring a knife or their car as they please.
Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
Anyway, what you did was correct, to an extent. It was good to put yourself between Rob and his victim. Even if Rob woulda shot that guy, and even though he pointed a gun at you, he is much, much, less likely to shoot you. Even in his irrational state.
As for how you detained Rob, that could use some work. Instead of a bear hug, or full nelson, both of which are very breakable, you should have used a rear naked choke.(with body triangle) If Rob is super crazy, Rob could have bit you, and broke your face with head butts. Martial Arts or maybe at minimum a gun extraction class could help. Of course you're not expected to encounter these situations, but preparing is great none the less.
If I put myself in your shoes, I would have started a distraction of Rob with some help of other bystanders. At that point, you need to break his grip on the weapon and get him in a choke. Don't let Rob tire out fighting you. It takes 6 seconds to put someone to sleep.. when he wakes later he should understand why you did so. (Again this all depends on what you know. IF you know a safe break away, grab the gun and point at him. Maybe use a nice tackle like you did if it's the best option. Head kick knockout. Who knows)
If I would have been carrying, one life lost is better than many. If I actually saw Rob's finger on the trigger, it's a hard call how it would have ended. If I couldn't talk Rob down or safely make a attack using my body, I would have put one in Rob's chest. If I felt like Rob wasn't going to do it, I would continue to talk to him while police came on scene, but that could end in suicide by cop. I'd like to just put one in Rob's arm or knee, but then I go to jail because I clearly wasn't afraid fro my life and took the time to aim at a specific point.
Regardless, good job. Keep it up. But be a little more prepared next time.
You probably wouldn't have done any of that (regarding restraint, and clearing of bysstanders) if you had been in my shoes. Like I said, when something like this happens, you don't think about a plan of action. I was more than willing to let someone else handle bystanders, he needed to be restrained before something really bad happened. Consideration for my safely was, obviously, not even part of my thought process (which is a little scary I’ll admit).
I guess it should be mentioned that I didn’t want Rob to hurt anyone else, I also didn’t want to hurt him, or let him hurt himself. The list of priorities were short: 1. Get the gun 2. Stop others from getting hurt 3. Stop Rob from getting hurt 4. Stop myself from getting hurt. It’s a ****ed up priority list, but that’s just how it worked out in the moment.
Couple of things to consider as well: Rob is a young man. 21, and in the military. Calling the cops as a lot of you suggest (which very might be what I should have done) would have dismantled his life a long time (again, my internal debate is raging about if this even matters, and if I should have just called the Cops anyway). Would I call the cops if it happened again? Hell yeah I would. I also wouldn’t be so gentle. That 30 minute tussle would have been over in 10 seconds if it had been the second time. Rule number 3 gets thrown out the window.\
In all seriousness, a man who pulls out a gun and waves it around, even while drunk, is a danger to society. My freshmen year of high school, one of my classmates died at a party where a guy did exactly that, 'harmlessly' shot through a wall and killed the guy on the other side.
A person who does that has a serious problem. People don't just drive home drunk once, and I guarantee you another time he gets wasted he will pull out that gun again. It was pretty stupid to confront an unstable guy with a gun, but that gun has to go. He's proven he can't use it responsibly.
In the future, you call the police when crap like this happens. An unstable drunk guy with a gun isn't a one-time mistake.
Well, I'm going to question this decision forever. I have, in my mind, built up this idea that NO ONE would be stupid enough to do what he did a second time. I now that's a good bit of cognative dissonace, believing what I want, not what is realistic. But if it does happen again and someone getst hurt, when I didn't do enough to stop it the first time... that would be unbearable.
Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
I don't think the OP actually wants advice, I think he is just bragging about this situation, which may or may not have happened as described/happened.
Call the police when someone has a gun.
Well **** you too. Yeah, I'm bragging about having a gun pointed at me. What is there to brag about exactly? I would have much rather not had someone pull a gun. It was a really fun party before that. I was experiencing an inexpressible feeling akin to anxiety and general emotional distress and I felt maybe writing about and talking about it with people might help. Clearly I’m an attention seeking liar.
Believe what you want. I came here because I post here a lot and wanted the opinion of people I know have a tendency to think about this **** that comes out of their mouths/keyboards. That group clearly doesn't include you.
But thank you for your unenlightened, idiotic opinion.
Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
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Last weekend I was in a position that required the following:
Confront Rob who was highly intoxicated and who was holding a small caliber hand gun. It was loaded and there was a bullet in the chamber, and his laser scope was on.
The circumstances that surround why he pulled the gun are unimportant. Little to say, his life was in absolutely no danger. He just went insane. More on that later. I entered into the situation when I noticed the laser. It must have traveled a few times through some smoke or something, as it caught my eye from maybe 20 meters away. Then I heard someone say “Put your gun away!!!”. I moved quickly toward Rob and was yelling something to effect of:
“Rob, drop the ****ing gun” over and over.
I moved between him and the guy he was pointed the gun at (who was in a crowd of people that included several friends), then he pointed the gun right at me and made eye contact, but I was close at this point and basically tackled him. Luckily, for whatever reason, he dropped the gun it seemed more or less of his own will. I got up, grabbed the gun while another person worked to restrain Rob as he was now melting down completely. Walking into the house I popped the clip and popped the bullet out the chamber.
At that point I realized that this gun that was pointed at me had no safely. There was a bullet in the chamber and laser was on, meaning his finger was on the trigger. I hid the gun and quickly headed back outside to try and defuse the mayhem that was going on. After separating Rob from the guy that he had been arguing with when he pulled the gun, I restrained Rob like, standing bear hug style, and he lost it again, but it was more an emotional outburst (crying, screaming, anger pointing in no particular direction).
We tried to get him inside but Rob is a strong dude. I’m luckily a little stronger, and also luckily he seemed to be lashing out in general and not directly at me. This went on for about 30 minutes with me preventing him destroying too much of the house (not completely successfully at that). At one point I had to put him in a full nelson and tell him I was going to have to call the cops if he didn’t calm down. That seemed to register and about 5 minutes later, he was perfectly normal, as if nothing had happened.
I haven’t had a chance to sit down and talk with Rob since that night, but I will this weekend. I’m not mad at Rob. I’m worried about him. I know him well enough to know that he would never do the things he did with a clear head. Now I need to know what to say. I have an idea, but I’m no expert. Any input would be appreciated.
As a side note, and not one that I will be debating here (it’s not the debate forum), I used to dislike guns. Now I ****ing hate them. And if someone else had had a gun as well? What a horrible thought, it could have only made the situation worse.
And my mind won't stop racing. What if I hadn't known him? I would have attacked him for sure. It could have been so much worse. In my mind I keep thinking "what if he had pulled the trigger?" Could I still have gotten the gun from him? Better me than someone else. At this point I guess I'm just trying to vent. I haven't talked much about it to anyone, and when hearing the story retold to me by a couple of people that witnessed it I have a bad emotional reaction, but I can't really interpret what I'm feeling, I just know it upsets me. What if I hadn’t been strong enough to constrain this guy and he hurt someone? What if what if what if…..
Should I be mad? I don't feel mad.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
If someone else had a gun, at best Rob would've dropped his gun. At worst, Rob would've dropped it from a cold, dead hand. I'd probably hate Rob more than the gun. Try cutting and lifting to build some confidence. That way you can bertstare that beta FA.
Aware yourself, MW99.
Anyone that's been in a situation like this can tell you that without training (which I don't have) time speeds up. Everything happens fast. Really fast, so fast you have time to react, not plan. It's probably all the way down to a fight or flight response.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
-Shepherd Book
What you did was stupid, but you may very well have saved multiple peoples lives. It takes stones (big giant ones) to do something like that. As far as I can tell you were just a friend trying to stop another friend from doing something very very stupid. You're just lucky his finger didn't slip and he's lucky all he got out of it was a semi crappy night. It was a near death experience, I can only imagine you'd have mixed feelings about it.
And Rake, did you even read what he wrote. Some people....
My best friend has had to remove weapons from his intoxicated brother on more than one occasion.
I'd like to point out also that in your case and the ones I'm describing much alcohol was involved. Perhaps this discussion should be about acceptable limits.
There are techniques for disarming a guy in a "more safe" way, because with a loaded gun you are never going to have guarantees.
Not that I am an expert but I have taken a course on how to deal with these kind of situations and de-escalation techniques. I also hold a conceal carry permit, but in a situation where I was drinking or around people who were drinking I would not have had my gun on me, and sounds like in this situation having one laoded gun being thrown around was enough.
I probably wouldn't have announced myself or placed myself in front of Robb and instead come at him from behind, making sure the people who were in front of the gun could see me, make eye contact with them so they know what you are doing and giving them opportunity to react. Then go for the wrist and his gun. But this could be the exact wrong answer.
So much depends on his mind set. A soothing word might work better than anything. It takes a lot of training to read these situations. Just be proud that you may have saved somebody's life.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
What I don't understand in American culture, is why we are so tolerant of surrendering our will to alcohol. I don't think I know a single person who drinks that doesn't have a story of doing something really, really stupid while drunk, yet in most cases these stories don't dissuade them from drinking.
In this case I'm thinking Rob could learn a little better when to cut himself off so he avoids putting himself in a situation where he does not, as you say, "Have a clear head."
It is a world wide issue of stupid public drunks. Some can handle their liquor and the rest entertain millions on Tosh.0 and youtube.
For best results- A hand full of college kids, 4 bottles of Tequila, a tricycle, and cheap ramp.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Because it's touted as liquid courage and people become foolish with alcohol, but it's seen as "having a good time."
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Why didn't anyone call the cops?
Seriously.
To the OP, you sir have balls of plutonium to do what you did. Bravo on potentially saving someones life.
Immediately after disarming him, the police should have been called, he should have been arrested for pointing a gun at innocent people, charges should be pressed, and he should be doing serious jail time on felony weapons charges. One little slip of his finger and either you or another innocent person could have been killed.
Scenarios like this are the exact reason I am anti gun and anti Second Amendment. The EXACT reason.
I know a guy that has his conceal and Carry. Wears his gun almost all of the time (when he goes for bike rides, shopping etc..) but when he goes drinking as soon as the car is parked the gun is unloaded, goes in it's case and is put under the seat/in the trunk.
This guy could have been just as dangerous in a car, and would have still been dangerous with a knife.... the problem wasnt the gun it was having a quick temper and being drunk.
Anyway, what you did was correct, to an extent. It was good to put yourself between Rob and his victim. Even if Rob woulda shot that guy, and even though he pointed a gun at you, he is much, much, less likely to shoot you. Even in his irrational state.
As for how you detained Rob, that could use some work. Instead of a bear hug, or full nelson, both of which are very breakable, you should have used a rear naked choke.(with body triangle) If Rob is super crazy, Rob could have bit you, and broke your face with head butts. Martial Arts or maybe at minimum a gun extraction class could help. Of course you're not expected to encounter these situations, but preparing is great none the less.
If I put myself in your shoes, I would have started a distraction of Rob with some help of other bystanders. At that point, you need to break his grip on the weapon and get him in a choke. Don't let Rob tire out fighting you. It takes 6 seconds to put someone to sleep.. when he wakes later he should understand why you did so. (Again this all depends on what you know. IF you know a safe break away, grab the gun and point at him. Maybe use a nice tackle like you did if it's the best option. Head kick knockout. Who knows)
If I would have been carrying, one life lost is better than many. If I actually saw Rob's finger on the trigger, it's a hard call how it would have ended. If I couldn't talk Rob down or safely make a attack using my body, I would have put one in Rob's chest. If I felt like Rob wasn't going to do it, I would continue to talk to him while police came on scene, but that could end in suicide by cop. I'd like to just put one in Rob's arm or knee, but then I go to jail because I clearly wasn't afraid fro my life and took the time to aim at a specific point.
Regardless, good job. Keep it up. But be a little more prepared next time.
So someone can break into his car, steal his gun, and put another gun in the hands of a criminal. What a responsible gun owner. And yes, that happens often.
Knives and cars serve a purpose to society other than killing people. Guns don't. All it takes is one irresponsible fool taking the life of another person to convince me that guns need to go. One mother losing their child, one person losing their brother or sister, one child losing a parent, any of those are too high a price to pay so gun owners can enjoy shooting things.
The lunatic who pulled a gun and pointed it at the OP should be locked away for a LOOONG time.
A person who does that has a serious problem. People don't just drive home drunk once, and I guarantee you another time he gets wasted he will pull out that gun again. It was pretty stupid to confront an unstable guy with a gun, but that gun has to go. He's proven he can't use it responsibly.
In the future, you call the police when crap like this happens. An unstable drunk guy with a gun isn't a one-time mistake.
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Sure if they happen to know that there is a gun in his car and they want to take the time to cut through the locks on the gun case and trigger guard. The gun is just as safe in his car as it is in his home. Nice try to turn this into a gun control debate though.
Yeah my throwing knives serve a wonderful purpose to society. So do the 1.75 liter bottles of alcohol that routinely end up empty next to dead college and high school kids... What a wonderful service to society those serve. Again nice try to turn this into a heated debate.
I agree. It's called reckless endangerment. Maybe even attempted murder or assault with a deadly weapon. Laws already exist to cover this issue.
Faulty reasoning to say all guns and rights associated should be removed. Cars, knives, and girlfriends kill more than guns do. Drunk People will always find a way to injure themselves and others with what is at hand. Stop drinking the Liberal ideologcal koolaid of restricting rights to magically cure a uniquie, constant social problem of public drunkeness.
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No one called the cops because it was a small party and everyone knew each other. There was a point when I told him he had to calm down or I'd have to call the cops, and I would have if the situation had not been resolved quickly after that. By the time someone would have called the Cops, the gun was hidden and he was not going to hurt anyone (beside me (which was unlikely), and given his state, I wouldn't press charges for that).
I'm not a shrink, but I don't think he has a mental disorder. I'm sure he could use some counseling though. Little to say, he won't be carrying and drinking around me again, regardless.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
Call the police when someone has a gun.
That's great. Most of the time that is proabaly what people do that reason i support gun rights (but it makes me hate guns no less).
No, the problem was the gun, clearly.
You move away from a guy with a knife. You can disarm a guy with a knive and even if you get stabbed you're not likely to die (particualry with that many people around, and the same could might be said about guns, but I have the feeling the numbers favor knives). A bullet hole is a completely different ball of wax.
Whether he would have had a gun or knife or been in a car doesn't really matter to me. All of them are dangerous. But I'd rather have a guy point a knife at me, or start up a car and start driving toward me then have a gun pointed at me any day. If you can't say the same...well, I guess we'd have to call it a difference of opinion. At this point though, no one coming to one of my house parties is welcome to bring their gun. They can bring a knife or their car as they please.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
You probably wouldn't have done any of that (regarding restraint, and clearing of bysstanders) if you had been in my shoes. Like I said, when something like this happens, you don't think about a plan of action. I was more than willing to let someone else handle bystanders, he needed to be restrained before something really bad happened. Consideration for my safely was, obviously, not even part of my thought process (which is a little scary I’ll admit).
I guess it should be mentioned that I didn’t want Rob to hurt anyone else, I also didn’t want to hurt him, or let him hurt himself. The list of priorities were short: 1. Get the gun 2. Stop others from getting hurt 3. Stop Rob from getting hurt 4. Stop myself from getting hurt. It’s a ****ed up priority list, but that’s just how it worked out in the moment.
Couple of things to consider as well: Rob is a young man. 21, and in the military. Calling the cops as a lot of you suggest (which very might be what I should have done) would have dismantled his life a long time (again, my internal debate is raging about if this even matters, and if I should have just called the Cops anyway). Would I call the cops if it happened again? Hell yeah I would. I also wouldn’t be so gentle. That 30 minute tussle would have been over in 10 seconds if it had been the second time. Rule number 3 gets thrown out the window.\
Well, I'm going to question this decision forever. I have, in my mind, built up this idea that NO ONE would be stupid enough to do what he did a second time. I now that's a good bit of cognative dissonace, believing what I want, not what is realistic. But if it does happen again and someone getst hurt, when I didn't do enough to stop it the first time... that would be unbearable.
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
Well **** you too. Yeah, I'm bragging about having a gun pointed at me. What is there to brag about exactly? I would have much rather not had someone pull a gun. It was a really fun party before that. I was experiencing an inexpressible feeling akin to anxiety and general emotional distress and I felt maybe writing about and talking about it with people might help. Clearly I’m an attention seeking liar.
Believe what you want. I came here because I post here a lot and wanted the opinion of people I know have a tendency to think about this **** that comes out of their mouths/keyboards. That group clearly doesn't include you.
But thank you for your unenlightened, idiotic opinion.
Infraction for flaming --Senori
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great