This story is particularly interesting to me because it takes place in my home province not far from somewhere I used to live. This kind of media exposure and Anonymous action isn't something I am used to associating with where I'm from.
Some background. Not unlike the Steubenville case, the case of Rehtaeh Parsons involves a young girl being gang raped by several classmates while drunk at a party, pictures and video being taken and then spread via social media, an investigation dropped due to lack of evidence and constant bullying of the victim by classmates after the fact. Rehtaeh transferred schools but still the bullying persisted. She went to counseling, but even after a year she was still clearly grappling with some heavy issues. Earlier this week, after a year and a half of living with what happened, Rehtaeh hanged herself. It's sparked a huge media salvo, allegations of failure on the part of the RCMP to investigate the case and now Anonymous has stepped in.
In a statement titled "Operation Justice For Rehtaeh," Anonymous wrote that it had confirmed the identities of two of the four boys accused and was working on a third. The statement also said it is only a matter of time before they find the fourth.
"We do not approve of vigilante justice as the media claims," the statement, which addresses the Nova Scotia RCMP, read. "That would mean we approve of violent actions against these rapists at the hands of an unruly mob. What we want is justice. And [t]hat's your job. So do it."
The RCMP conducted a yearlong investigation after the Parsons family reported the rape, but no charges were filed. In an interview with Canada's CBC program "Maritime Noon," Rehtaeh's mother, Leah Parsons, suggested that prosecutors decided not to pursue the case because the accused may have been able to use ignorance as a defense.
Tensions are on the rise as media coverage continues. There's a lot of outrage about how the RCMP handled the case as well as a lot of concern that Anonymous could cause more harm than good. Earlier this week, Nova Scotia Justice Minister Ross Landry refused to reopen the case in light of Rehtaeh's suicide, but has since backpedaled since Anonymous announced its involvement.
Rehtaeh's family has maintained that her suicide was the result of feeling utterly failed by those around her. Friends, teachers, police, all of whom she felt abandoned her and let her down. Her father has made a statement (I can't link to it because the site he used has exceeded its bandwidth) (ETA: found one! But beware, this is a very depressing read) claiming that his daughter was severely disappointed in so many people and institutions she trusted.
In March, Rehtaeh posted a quote from Martin Luthor King Jr that I think sheds some light on how she felt:
“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”
Those who behave like beasts deserve to be put down like beasts. My best to Anonymous; I hope they're the competent ones rather than the high school kids with an axe to grind.
I am so jaded about the justice system. After witnessing and experiencing the sham that is "law and justice" I have very little faith.
It wouldn't surprise me if one of the rapist(s) was related to someone on the police or the court system and there was top down "old boys club code is silence" protecting the criminals.
This is horrifying. I couldn't even make it through that letter without wanting to throw up.
This is why so many girls never come forward as being rape victims. Our judicial system's short comings are highlighted for the whole world to see when **** like this happens. I'm mortified.
Sigh. I just want to say something about Anonymous as a group. A local radio show in the Cleveland area had a member of Anonymous come on and talk. They really do go after rapists and people they deem as garbage. They're so huge it's actually scary.
The member was telling the host right before he got off the phone, and I'm paraphrasing here "It's a good thing you didn't do anything to offend me because I have all of your information right here in front of me. Who knows what I would have done?" Not just the host, every other member of the talk show who actively participates in discussions. I have a lot of experience with guys like this back in the AOL and MIRC chat days and they do this "just because they can."
That's the kind of people these guys are. Those four boys better pray to whatever God they believe in for mercy, because their lives are going to be seriously ****ed up from this; just like Rehtaeh's was.
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I'm a bit concerned about the fact they didn't think they had enough evidence to go to trial. Where was her friend? Why no rape kit? Why did she tell no one for a week?
Do we know if she was unconscious like Potts?
Even drunk, there aren't many women who want to be gang banged, esp not high school girls. (In fact the only ones I can think of are in Dom/Sub relationships where the Dom partner is always looking out for the well being of his Sub. Those people are in their mid 30's and would never allow abuse).
Edit: I assume Canada has no double jeopardy like we do here in the US. Is it possible they thought the fallout from going to trial and not being able to convict was greater than just not trying?
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I see Anon as a necessary evil. Them enacting vigilantee justice on a case like this says more about the holes in the justice system than it does about Anon themselves. If the law did half the job it's supposed to, this wouldn't even be a problem. Conjecture of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if one of these kid's daddies have friends in high places.`Being very wealthy or having good connections makes you practically immune to the law.
It doesn't. Though that is just an allegation from the Parsons family of what one of the investigating officers had told them. The RCMP have been decidedly cagey about why they gave up on the case, frequently only citing "lack of evidence".
Why no rape kit? Why did she tell no one for a week?
Both are answered the same: she was 15, terrified, humiliated and ashamed to tell anyone. Her parents only learned about the rape because the photos and video went viral in the community and Rehtaeh had a breakdown.
It's obviously not what anyone wished it went down after the fact, I'm sure everyone would have rathered she had been strong enough to request a rape kit and come forward that day, but I don't think the reaction is uncommon or not understandable.
Do we know if she was unconscious like Potts?
From the reports I've read, she was only semi-conscious and was vomiting.
So there's a new wrinkle to all this. Anonymous has decided to respect the wishes of the Parsons family and not release the names of the rapists. But it's looking likely that they may not need to as students at Cole Harbour High are coming forward and naming names. The boys involved allegedly bragged to others about what they had done and spread the word via social media. Apparently in light of Rehtaeh's death, her peers who had remained silent for the past year and a half finally decided to speak out. Whether it's guilt or shame causing them to act now, the results are shaking the community enough that the RCMP is officially reopening the case.
In an interview with Canada's CBC program "Maritime Noon," Rehtaeh's mother, Leah Parsons, suggested that prosecutors decided not to pursue the case because the accused may have been able to use ignorance as a defense
It doesn't. I'd try them as adults and make sure the other prisoners know why the scum's been locked up with them
Well then you'd have to first finish law school, pass the Bar, and become a prosecutor or whatever you need to do.
Sounds like you wouldn't have what it takes, though; a prosecutor shouldn't publicise these things so that prisoners can get at these guys in the brig, but it is his or her duty to try a criminal case and perhaps even secure a conviction if and where one is appropriate within the law. The justice system has no place for those that believe that they're righteous and better than the rest when they're no more than vigilantes or advocates of ethically and/or legally questionable practices.
There's not enough information to make an informed post on this matter, and I'm not familiar with the relevant body of evidence law and trial rules. I don't, however, condone the behaviour of Anonymous. There is a system in place and, despite its shortcomings and failures, it exists and people should have faith in that and the law. If there are issues, the response and solution is to reform it, not circumvent it in part or in entirety.
Rape is unfortunate. Teen rape is unfortunate but I'm not sure, generally, if it's any more or less so than non-teen rape.
I've said this on other fora as well: but these kids are not convicted of anything yet. I'm kind of concerned about Anon being involved. Especially if they release the names of potentially innocent people to a mob out for blood.
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We have laboured long to build a heaven, only to find it populated with horrors.
If I had a daughter and this happened, screw "not condoning vigilante justice". I would go kill those responsible. Yes a conviction would be assured, but justice would have been done. Ignorance is no defense.
There is a difference between justice and revenge.
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We have laboured long to build a heaven, only to find it populated with horrors.
Well then you'd have to first finish law school, pass the Bar, and become a prosecutor or whatever you need to do.
Sounds like you wouldn't have what it takes, though; a prosecutor shouldn't publicise these things so that prisoners can get at these guys in the brig, but it is his or her duty to try a criminal case and perhaps even secure a conviction if and where one is appropriate within the law. The justice system has no place for those that believe that they're righteous and better than the rest when they're no more than vigilantes or advocates of ethically and/or legally questionable practices.
There's not enough information to make an informed post on this matter, and I'm not familiar with the relevant body of evidence law and trial rules. I don't, however, condone the behaviour of Anonymous. There is a system in place and, despite its shortcomings and failures, it exists and people should have faith in that and the law. If there are issues, the response and solution is to reform it, not circumvent it in part or in entirety.
Rape is unfortunate. Teen rape is unfortunate but I'm not sure, generally, if it's any more or less so than non-teen rape.
Do you have a young female sibling? Get her drunk, let some other boys about the age of the scum pass her around. Then report back on your faith in the justice system etc.
I can appreciate well-played smartassery, but it has no place in this thread.
Do you have a young female sibling? Get her drunk, let some other boys about the age of the scum pass her around. Then report back on your faith in the justice system etc.
Sorry, what?
Are you appealing to emotions? What has a young or younger female, real or hypothetical, got to do with anything? Don't boys or young male siblings get diddled or raped too, and would the actions or lack of actions affect your in the justice system or its effectiveness, foundations, or operation?
Look, even if I were raped (and this is probably easier to say now than when I'm hysterical after being raped), the justice system is there and you simply do not do things that would amount to taking the law into your own hands. That is a matter of fact.
I can appreciate well-played smartassery, but it has no place in this thread.
Beg your pardon? I'm absolutely serious; again, law has its place in society, and we are all to respect that. No one is essentially above the law.
I'm not sure how you read my post and I don't know what you took from it; however, if you're offended by it, I do apologize for how you feel.
If I had a daughter and this happened, screw "not condoning vigilante justice". I would go kill those responsible. Yes a conviction would be assured, but justice would have been done. Ignorance is no defense.
Maybe if prosecutors around the world focused less on trivial things like copyright infringement (which I assume is given M(B)ILLIONS in funding) and more on human decency and defense of the weak we would have a better world.
Please read the article again. You appear to have an inadequate understanding of the article (search for "ignorance" in the article).
Of a non-comprehensive understanding of the law and its intricacies, well, that is forgivable.
Law is fine so long as it hasn't gone sour, as seems to be the case with a possible ignorance plea. I stand by my opinion of the beasts and wish the anons godspeed in their endevours. I can respect a Law that maintains civil order; not a Law that condones rape.
Law is fine so long as it hasn't gone sour, as seems to be the case with a possible ignorance plea.
Again, consider the source. As it is, that the supposed failure to pursue criminal prosecution was allegedly due to the accused possibly using a defence of ignorance is hearsay and, moreover, absurd and baseless.
I stand by my opinion of the beasts and wish the anons godspeed in their endevours.
Duly noted.
I can respect a Law that maintains civil order; not a Law that condones rape.
Of course you can, and of course you can't. Very well, dear.
Clearly, this deals with issues for which one might have or develop strong feelings, with or without a necessarily thorough understanding of the issues themselves and their complexities or interactions with other things. We'll leave it at that.
I don't condone vigilante justice or condemning people without due process.
Batman is only awesome because he is fictional.
Absolutely on the latter point; and, indeed on the former.
I think it is worthwhile to note that 'vigilante justice' is a mockery of justice. It is anything but justice, and the inclusion of 'justice' in the term is affront to justice and any forms it may present. Entire areas of law such as administrative law and means and routes of recourse exist to deal with the inadequacies or failings of the law or parts thereof, so that the law retains its integrity and coherence. If one transcends the boundaries of the law or justice to deliver law or justice, which are conceptually very different, then what law or justice is there? For that reason, no reasonable individual can support Anonymous in their misguided actions, however well-intentioned.
I can't see how anyone can support or condone causes or proponents of causes fuelled by delusional ideas, wrong or incomplete information, or a lack of critical thinking.
For goodness's sake, can't Anonymous simply collectively, like mature and well-rounded individuals, raise their concerns in a proper manner? They are neither the executive nor judicial arms of governments or those with delegated responsibilities.
Thank you Anonymous for forcing the reopening of a case. If I was the one in charge of those rapist, they would live hell in a prison until they are 80. Also might want to ask a plastic surgeon to slightly modify their body to make it easier to accept many partners in prison. They would know what it is to be raped. But since I'm not the one charged of judging them, I will let the law decide what will happen. Hope they will get slapped in the face by the reality and consequences of their actions.
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In this instance there's really no complexity or shades of gray. There's simple the fact that the kids from privilege took advantage of the girl was she was out of it; said event lead to photos being posted on the internet. A sense of isolation led the girl to hang herself.
If our justice system saw fit to try the culprits as adults and sent them to a prison where the guards tipped the inmates off as to why the kids are in there...I would have more faith in the system. I doubt the kids would last long in there, given the code of honor many prisoners hold to.
Thank you Anonymous for forcing the reopening of a case. If I was the one in charge of those rapist, they would live hell in a prison until they are 80. Also might want to ask a plastic surgeon to slightly modify their body to make it easier to accept many partners in prison. They would know what it is to be raped. But since I'm not the one charged of judging them, I will let the law decide what will happen. Hope they will get slapped in the face by the reality and consequences of their actions.
If I say so myself, I am rather tough on crime; but, whoa, that is excessive and simply undue. I'd hazard to ask what has happened to you or why you just said that but I don't think I want to open that Pandora's box.
Anyway, if you're going to advocate vigilantism or anarchy, well, why not simply hope that all rapists are summarily executed following drum-head trials or lynch them? How would their being mutilated and tortured, as part of a judicial order or not, fair, just, or at all acceptable?
What individuals such as yourself should hope for, and see as being more ideal, competent and effective government and governance. Government, due process, rights (particularly those, those civil and political ones, upon which the West prides itself as having offered to the world), and all that we take for granted are the only means by which to keep reform and punish according to an objective measure.
And, for a multitude of reasons, really, thank God you're not judging them. If indeed education is the remedy to extremism or radicalism and for refinement and temperance, then that should be required in short order. How the bloody hell can you suggest something so heinous as a sentence - of which there are various schools of thought - that involves the commission of a crime and a flagrant violation of human rights? Rape is an unnecessary evil, the 'punishment' for which is not more rape, even if it is something that has become entrenched in the prison system and infected society.
In this instance there's really no complexity or shades of gray. There's simple the fact that the kids from privilege took advantage of the girl was she was out of it; said event lead to photos being posted on the internet. A sense of isolation led the girl to hang herself.
If our justice system saw fit to try the culprits as adults and sent them to a prison where the guards tipped the inmates off as to why the kids are in there...I would have more faith in the system. I doubt the kids would last long in there, given the code of honor many prisoners hold to.
And, wait, you actually believe and stand by all that you just said, and that you're okay with all of that?
What is that you do again or your background if I may ask?
This makes me sick. How is there not enough evidence? THERE ARE PICTURES ON THE BLOODY INTERNET! Sounds like another case where the authorities had to minimal work and that was still to much. It seems like nowadays police won't take any steps in investigation. They want a solid case dropped right into their lap, but only if the case isn't too thick and if it comes with a box of donuts.
Some background. Not unlike the Steubenville case, the case of Rehtaeh Parsons involves a young girl being gang raped by several classmates while drunk at a party, pictures and video being taken and then spread via social media, an investigation dropped due to lack of evidence and constant bullying of the victim by classmates after the fact. Rehtaeh transferred schools but still the bullying persisted. She went to counseling, but even after a year she was still clearly grappling with some heavy issues. Earlier this week, after a year and a half of living with what happened, Rehtaeh hanged herself. It's sparked a huge media salvo, allegations of failure on the part of the RCMP to investigate the case and now Anonymous has stepped in.
Source
Tensions are on the rise as media coverage continues. There's a lot of outrage about how the RCMP handled the case as well as a lot of concern that Anonymous could cause more harm than good. Earlier this week, Nova Scotia Justice Minister Ross Landry refused to reopen the case in light of Rehtaeh's suicide, but has since backpedaled since Anonymous announced its involvement.
Rehtaeh's family has maintained that her suicide was the result of feeling utterly failed by those around her. Friends, teachers, police, all of whom she felt abandoned her and let her down. Her father has made a statement (I can't link to it because the site he used has exceeded its bandwidth) (ETA: found one! But beware, this is a very depressing read) claiming that his daughter was severely disappointed in so many people and institutions she trusted.
In March, Rehtaeh posted a quote from Martin Luthor King Jr that I think sheds some light on how she felt:
“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”
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Those who behave like beasts deserve to be put down like beasts. My best to Anonymous; I hope they're the competent ones rather than the high school kids with an axe to grind.
Art is life itself.
It doesn't. I'd try them as adults and make sure the other prisoners know why the scum's been locked up with them
It wouldn't surprise me if one of the rapist(s) was related to someone on the police or the court system and there was top down "old boys club code is silence" protecting the criminals.
This is why so many girls never come forward as being rape victims. Our judicial system's short comings are highlighted for the whole world to see when **** like this happens. I'm mortified.
Sigh. I just want to say something about Anonymous as a group. A local radio show in the Cleveland area had a member of Anonymous come on and talk. They really do go after rapists and people they deem as garbage. They're so huge it's actually scary.
The member was telling the host right before he got off the phone, and I'm paraphrasing here "It's a good thing you didn't do anything to offend me because I have all of your information right here in front of me. Who knows what I would have done?" Not just the host, every other member of the talk show who actively participates in discussions. I have a lot of experience with guys like this back in the AOL and MIRC chat days and they do this "just because they can."
That's the kind of people these guys are. Those four boys better pray to whatever God they believe in for mercy, because their lives are going to be seriously ****ed up from this; just like Rehtaeh's was.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Do we know if she was unconscious like Potts?
Even drunk, there aren't many women who want to be gang banged, esp not high school girls. (In fact the only ones I can think of are in Dom/Sub relationships where the Dom partner is always looking out for the well being of his Sub. Those people are in their mid 30's and would never allow abuse).
Edit: I assume Canada has no double jeopardy like we do here in the US. Is it possible they thought the fallout from going to trial and not being able to convict was greater than just not trying?
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It doesn't. Though that is just an allegation from the Parsons family of what one of the investigating officers had told them. The RCMP have been decidedly cagey about why they gave up on the case, frequently only citing "lack of evidence".
Both are answered the same: she was 15, terrified, humiliated and ashamed to tell anyone. Her parents only learned about the rape because the photos and video went viral in the community and Rehtaeh had a breakdown.
It's obviously not what anyone wished it went down after the fact, I'm sure everyone would have rathered she had been strong enough to request a rape kit and come forward that day, but I don't think the reaction is uncommon or not understandable.
From the reports I've read, she was only semi-conscious and was vomiting.
So there's a new wrinkle to all this. Anonymous has decided to respect the wishes of the Parsons family and not release the names of the rapists. But it's looking likely that they may not need to as students at Cole Harbour High are coming forward and naming names. The boys involved allegedly bragged to others about what they had done and spread the word via social media. Apparently in light of Rehtaeh's death, her peers who had remained silent for the past year and a half finally decided to speak out. Whether it's guilt or shame causing them to act now, the results are shaking the community enough that the RCMP is officially reopening the case.
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Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Will the boys be punished? I am expecting some harsh penalty for these rapists.
One year has been passed, the pictures of the incident were widely spread. Until she died, of course, then society began its revolt.
What is more revolting is the silence of all people related to her, besides her family.
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Pourquoi?
Oh gee, moms can say the darndest things.
Read the article again, specifically:
Well then you'd have to first finish law school, pass the Bar, and become a prosecutor or whatever you need to do.
Sounds like you wouldn't have what it takes, though; a prosecutor shouldn't publicise these things so that prisoners can get at these guys in the brig, but it is his or her duty to try a criminal case and perhaps even secure a conviction if and where one is appropriate within the law. The justice system has no place for those that believe that they're righteous and better than the rest when they're no more than vigilantes or advocates of ethically and/or legally questionable practices.
There's not enough information to make an informed post on this matter, and I'm not familiar with the relevant body of evidence law and trial rules. I don't, however, condone the behaviour of Anonymous. There is a system in place and, despite its shortcomings and failures, it exists and people should have faith in that and the law. If there are issues, the response and solution is to reform it, not circumvent it in part or in entirety.
Rape is unfortunate. Teen rape is unfortunate but I'm not sure, generally, if it's any more or less so than non-teen rape.
There is a difference between justice and revenge.
Batman is only awesome because he is fictional.
Do you have a young female sibling? Get her drunk, let some other boys about the age of the scum pass her around. Then report back on your faith in the justice system etc.
I can appreciate well-played smartassery, but it has no place in this thread.
Are you appealing to emotions? What has a young or younger female, real or hypothetical, got to do with anything? Don't boys or young male siblings get diddled or raped too, and would the actions or lack of actions affect your in the justice system or its effectiveness, foundations, or operation?
Look, even if I were raped (and this is probably easier to say now than when I'm hysterical after being raped), the justice system is there and you simply do not do things that would amount to taking the law into your own hands. That is a matter of fact.
Beg your pardon? I'm absolutely serious; again, law has its place in society, and we are all to respect that. No one is essentially above the law.
I'm not sure how you read my post and I don't know what you took from it; however, if you're offended by it, I do apologize for how you feel.
Please read the article again. You appear to have an inadequate understanding of the article (search for "ignorance" in the article).
Of a non-comprehensive understanding of the law and its intricacies, well, that is forgivable.
Duly noted.
Of course you can, and of course you can't. Very well, dear.
Clearly, this deals with issues for which one might have or develop strong feelings, with or without a necessarily thorough understanding of the issues themselves and their complexities or interactions with other things. We'll leave it at that.
Absolutely on the latter point; and, indeed on the former.
I think it is worthwhile to note that 'vigilante justice' is a mockery of justice. It is anything but justice, and the inclusion of 'justice' in the term is affront to justice and any forms it may present. Entire areas of law such as administrative law and means and routes of recourse exist to deal with the inadequacies or failings of the law or parts thereof, so that the law retains its integrity and coherence. If one transcends the boundaries of the law or justice to deliver law or justice, which are conceptually very different, then what law or justice is there? For that reason, no reasonable individual can support Anonymous in their misguided actions, however well-intentioned.
I can't see how anyone can support or condone causes or proponents of causes fuelled by delusional ideas, wrong or incomplete information, or a lack of critical thinking.
For goodness's sake, can't Anonymous simply collectively, like mature and well-rounded individuals, raise their concerns in a proper manner? They are neither the executive nor judicial arms of governments or those with delegated responsibilities.
If our justice system saw fit to try the culprits as adults and sent them to a prison where the guards tipped the inmates off as to why the kids are in there...I would have more faith in the system. I doubt the kids would last long in there, given the code of honor many prisoners hold to.
Anyway, if you're going to advocate vigilantism or anarchy, well, why not simply hope that all rapists are summarily executed following drum-head trials or lynch them? How would their being mutilated and tortured, as part of a judicial order or not, fair, just, or at all acceptable?
What individuals such as yourself should hope for, and see as being more ideal, competent and effective government and governance. Government, due process, rights (particularly those, those civil and political ones, upon which the West prides itself as having offered to the world), and all that we take for granted are the only means by which to keep reform and punish according to an objective measure.
And, for a multitude of reasons, really, thank God you're not judging them. If indeed education is the remedy to extremism or radicalism and for refinement and temperance, then that should be required in short order. How the bloody hell can you suggest something so heinous as a sentence - of which there are various schools of thought - that involves the commission of a crime and a flagrant violation of human rights? Rape is an unnecessary evil, the 'punishment' for which is not more rape, even if it is something that has become entrenched in the prison system and infected society.
And, wait, you actually believe and stand by all that you just said, and that you're okay with all of that?
What is that you do again or your background if I may ask?
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