In it, the author trashes the idea of Bitcoins, an online currency independent from any one country's monetary system. Some of the authors points include:
- The lack of a known identity behind the creator of Bitcoins.
- The rapidly fluctuating value of a bitcoin.
- The currency is supposedly widely used by "tax evaders, drug dealers, and terrorists".
- Other digital currencies such as Cybercash have failed.
- No government fall back in the case of currency trouble.
All in all, it seems to be quite an alarmist article, but the thing that struck me and made me want to post it here was actually this excerpt:
Quote from Linked CNN Article »
One of the self-proclaimed largest Bitcoin exchanges is Mt. Gox. The name originally stood for Magic: The Gathering Exchange, an online site designed to trade cards used in playing the card game popular with the younger set. An exchange based on trading kiddy cards does not seem like a sound foundation for a monetary system.
Sort of a good point, but... THAT M:TG BASHING!
So, what are your thoughts about Bitcoin currency? Its certainly risen in value ( I found a post here from 2012 where bitcoins were valued at $8, while they're $100 now according to the article).
Also, was your reception of the article influenced by the reference to M:TG?
I certainly feel like bitcoins are too inherently risky to be a real currency. There's a lack of accountability behind the currency in comparison to those backed by countries. I couldn't bring myself to invest a significant portion of my money in them, for example...
On the other hand, my knee jerk reaction to the article was "this guy is totally paranoid!" probably more due to how he discredited himself in my mind with his reference to M:TG than to anything he wrote.
Any analysis of the long-term future of bitcoin is inherently so speculative that it's going to be proven wrong somehow.
But there's no way I'm going to rush to invest in it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
They have a purpose, a very specific purpose. Investment is not the key idea behind the currancy.
Really, bitcoins are a proof of concept. Right now the kinks are being worked out. Having a currancy where a DDoS attack can lower the price of the currancy is their current problem. How do you address this problem: Bitcoin prices go up. You sell. Then you ddos the site, so that the price drops and you can reinvest. You now control the price of bitcoins and can abuse it to make tons of money.
Problems like this have to be fixed before anyone can seriously think of investing in bitcoins. Right now its purely a gamble.
The other complaints like its being used for drugs or terrorists is true, but the problem hits other online currancies too. North Korea has a talented hacking group which scams and goldfarms in Lineage II(?). They then sell the gold from the game and use that money to help fund NK's nuclear program. Drug organizations do the same thing with WoW money. They use it as an international currancy to get their money safely from one country to another.
These are inherent problems with all of these online currancies. Bitcoins are being used for illegal uses, but they aren't the only ones. How we address it will be interesting. Are bitcoins illegal? Should we make all online currencies illegal? Is it possible to stop people from using underground currancies? I'd go with no. These are just new problems which will have to be solved.
(Another interesting one is how stable in the long run will the underlying concept of Bitcoins. From what I know its based on computers solving problems. It gets progressively harder to solve the problems. Problems are released every so often to ease demand. Does this system work well enough to be a true currancy? I duno, but its interesting.)
Serious-minded adults see the world in grey and aren't fun, so there's that for what it's worth!
I don't get this Bitcoin and I guess no one can. It hasn't a sovereign controller, a regulator, or issuing authority, and its legitimacy is sketchy. Its sustainability is dodgy. Its approach to privacy is utterly shonky. Its concern for law, such as tax law, is questionable.
It is anything but prudent to invest in this currency, as it is also anything but prudent to actually invest anything into the thesis of James J. Angel, at least at the CNN article.
At best, this is an experiment and nothing more, so thank goodness there's an actual limit to the amount of Bitcoins that will be issued.
The thing about bitcoins is that even if they are deemed to be a "bad" thing, or deemed illegal or whatever, there's very little that anyone can do about them. Truth be told, they mainly only exist at this point because they can be used to purchase illegal goods and services - but maybe that will change.
Truth be told, they mainly only exist at this point because they can be used to purchase illegal goods and services - but maybe that will change.
Without a central bank or any government backing or authority, and lacking any intrinsic value as data, bitcoins will be vulnerable to the kinds of swings they have undergone. I don't see any legitimate business accepting a currency that can drop 60% in one day as payment for anything.
The play well as a concept into the inherent distrust many people have of central authority, but honestly at this point I treat them more as a pump and dump scam than anything else.
It's annoying that there's so much speculative abuse of bitcoin, but to the way I'd like to use bitcoin, that actually just doesn't matter. The way it is now, you shouldn't see BTC as anything more than a medium of exchange. Prices should be still denominated in standard currencies, and BTC only used as a lightweight way to get money from point A to point B. Swipe your smartphone, press OK, and bam, paid. There's systems like that around for gas and trains, but this would be generic. A key part here is to never have a significant stake in BTC, just enough for typical daily use, so the impact of even extremely wild speculative swings really isn't that bad.
The main problem with this model right now is that no regular merchants accept BTC at all (I wonder if I could get my LGS to accept BTC if I volunteer to set up the systems necessary). There's room here for ecosystem startups.. which a lot of people with more gumption than me have also seen, so it's in the works. I think it'd be cool to have a "standard" debit/credit card form factor for a BTC wallet to help transition.
All currencies possess volatility, and many of these arguments are the same that kind be levied at real currencies or stocks. Stocks which possess no dividends are used as printable money for companies that is later redeemed by other people. Since the voting option of stocks is basically pointless unless you're a huge investor, indeed, many companies restrict voting to owners of privileged shares, the analog between bitcoin and other collectibles is pretty close. Though perhaps not in the direction that the self described very serious people would like.
Which is precisely the problem and the benefit of them. There aren't enough of them, and they're frequently valued very highly and thus unsuitable for basic transactions. Merchants don't want to take a currency that's $80 one day and $15 another. If treated like any other collectible item - a magic card or a stock - they're useful as a medium of trade, but volatility is not an acceptable trait for a currency.
All currencies possess volatility, and many of these arguments are the same that kind be levied at real currencies or stocks.
Be that as it may, you are well aware of the extreme extent to which the Bitcoin fluctuates and in response to a wide(r) range of factors (than other state-backed currencies), right?
Without a central bank or any government backing or authority, and lacking any intrinsic value as data, bitcoins will be vulnerable to the kinds of swings they have undergone. I don't see any legitimate business accepting a currency that can drop 60% in one day as payment for anything.
The play well as a concept into the inherent distrust many people have of central authority, but honestly at this point I treat them more as a pump and dump scam than anything else.
Hm, yeah. Good for pumping and dumping or Ponzi-ing.
Bitcoins are a weird thing. What are they, if they were totally kosher? 'Investment' is undeniable, but are they a commodity and/or currency, and what laws would apply to them or how would they be regulated?
Us 30+ people playing that kiddy card game... meanwhile at our day job we handle this tool's retirement account.
The currency has to be backed by something, whether it's MTG cards or some kinds of goods and services. If I can redeem the bitcoins for real goods/services then they have value. The problem is when the value is less than the exchange price. The prices tank.
(Ever seen a freelance board where 90% are crap) $3-5 an hour tops forcing the good ones to leave.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Representational currency is one of humanity's greatest obstacles to peace and real prosperity. I read the article and just shook my head. Do we really need another type of money?
Which is precisely the problem and the benefit of them. There aren't enough of them, and they're frequently valued very highly and thus unsuitable for basic transactions.
For this it's incorrect to think of bitcoin in terms of $/BTC, you should think in terms for $/satoshi (a satoshi is 1/100 mil BTC). Right now it takes like.. a million satoshi to get to a 1 USD. The real problem is that *right now* too few people have too much BTC, not that *necessarily* it's that case.
Bitcoins are a weird thing. What are they, if they were totally kosher? 'Investment' is undeniable, but are they a commodity and/or currency, and what laws would apply to them or how would they be regulated?
I'll totally deny that they're an investment. Real investments apply to things like businesses. Investment is leveraging capital that's otherwise just sitting around to generate real value, and you get a cut of that value. Gambling on the price of BTC is just speculation, not investment.
Representational currency is one of humanity's greatest obstacles to peace and real prosperity. I read the article and just shook my head. Do we really need another type of money?
it is a necessity if we are ever going to move forward with the removal of international borders and create a true global community.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Collaborative Pub: Ice Cold Thoughts Always On Tap Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
--------------------------------------------------- Vintage will rise again!Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Wow, I was looking at bitcoins a couple weeks ago and they were only $50. Did you know that you can farm bitcoins? It takes a bunch of people to do it, but the sites that get people together can pay you for your part in making it. The only problem is that it costs electricity and processing power, so you have to have a really low power bill and an efficient computer.
Anyway, some shops like Hexide use bitcoins for digital items (they specialize in Team Fortress 2 items), because PayPal doesn't cover digital items. eBay stopped allowing people to sell MTGO cards on eBay after scammers used stolen credit cards to buy cards and tickets.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/11/opinion/angel-bitcoin-currency/index.html?hpt=hp_bn7
In it, the author trashes the idea of Bitcoins, an online currency independent from any one country's monetary system. Some of the authors points include:
- The lack of a known identity behind the creator of Bitcoins.
- The rapidly fluctuating value of a bitcoin.
- The currency is supposedly widely used by "tax evaders, drug dealers, and terrorists".
- Other digital currencies such as Cybercash have failed.
- No government fall back in the case of currency trouble.
All in all, it seems to be quite an alarmist article, but the thing that struck me and made me want to post it here was actually this excerpt:
Sort of a good point, but... THAT M:TG BASHING!
So, what are your thoughts about Bitcoin currency? Its certainly risen in value ( I found a post here from 2012 where bitcoins were valued at $8, while they're $100 now according to the article).
Also, was your reception of the article influenced by the reference to M:TG?
I certainly feel like bitcoins are too inherently risky to be a real currency. There's a lack of accountability behind the currency in comparison to those backed by countries. I couldn't bring myself to invest a significant portion of my money in them, for example...
On the other hand, my knee jerk reaction to the article was "this guy is totally paranoid!" probably more due to how he discredited himself in my mind with his reference to M:TG than to anything he wrote.
But there's no way I'm going to rush to invest in it.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
Really, bitcoins are a proof of concept. Right now the kinks are being worked out. Having a currancy where a DDoS attack can lower the price of the currancy is their current problem. How do you address this problem: Bitcoin prices go up. You sell. Then you ddos the site, so that the price drops and you can reinvest. You now control the price of bitcoins and can abuse it to make tons of money.
Problems like this have to be fixed before anyone can seriously think of investing in bitcoins. Right now its purely a gamble.
The other complaints like its being used for drugs or terrorists is true, but the problem hits other online currancies too. North Korea has a talented hacking group which scams and goldfarms in Lineage II(?). They then sell the gold from the game and use that money to help fund NK's nuclear program. Drug organizations do the same thing with WoW money. They use it as an international currancy to get their money safely from one country to another.
These are inherent problems with all of these online currancies. Bitcoins are being used for illegal uses, but they aren't the only ones. How we address it will be interesting. Are bitcoins illegal? Should we make all online currencies illegal? Is it possible to stop people from using underground currancies? I'd go with no. These are just new problems which will have to be solved.
(Another interesting one is how stable in the long run will the underlying concept of Bitcoins. From what I know its based on computers solving problems. It gets progressively harder to solve the problems. Problems are released every so often to ease demand. Does this system work well enough to be a true currancy? I duno, but its interesting.)
I don't get this Bitcoin and I guess no one can. It hasn't a sovereign controller, a regulator, or issuing authority, and its legitimacy is sketchy. Its sustainability is dodgy. Its approach to privacy is utterly shonky. Its concern for law, such as tax law, is questionable.
It is anything but prudent to invest in this currency, as it is also anything but prudent to actually invest anything into the thesis of James J. Angel, at least at the CNN article.
At best, this is an experiment and nothing more, so thank goodness there's an actual limit to the amount of Bitcoins that will be issued.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
Without a central bank or any government backing or authority, and lacking any intrinsic value as data, bitcoins will be vulnerable to the kinds of swings they have undergone. I don't see any legitimate business accepting a currency that can drop 60% in one day as payment for anything.
The play well as a concept into the inherent distrust many people have of central authority, but honestly at this point I treat them more as a pump and dump scam than anything else.
The main problem with this model right now is that no regular merchants accept BTC at all (I wonder if I could get my LGS to accept BTC if I volunteer to set up the systems necessary). There's room here for ecosystem startups.. which a lot of people with more gumption than me have also seen, so it's in the works. I think it'd be cool to have a "standard" debit/credit card form factor for a BTC wallet to help transition.
Twitch channel
Which is precisely the problem and the benefit of them. There aren't enough of them, and they're frequently valued very highly and thus unsuitable for basic transactions. Merchants don't want to take a currency that's $80 one day and $15 another. If treated like any other collectible item - a magic card or a stock - they're useful as a medium of trade, but volatility is not an acceptable trait for a currency.
Hm, yeah. Good for pumping and dumping or Ponzi-ing.
Bitcoins are a weird thing. What are they, if they were totally kosher? 'Investment' is undeniable, but are they a commodity and/or currency, and what laws would apply to them or how would they be regulated?
The currency has to be backed by something, whether it's MTG cards or some kinds of goods and services. If I can redeem the bitcoins for real goods/services then they have value. The problem is when the value is less than the exchange price. The prices tank.
(Ever seen a freelance board where 90% are crap) $3-5 an hour tops forcing the good ones to leave.
For this it's incorrect to think of bitcoin in terms of $/BTC, you should think in terms for $/satoshi (a satoshi is 1/100 mil BTC). Right now it takes like.. a million satoshi to get to a 1 USD. The real problem is that *right now* too few people have too much BTC, not that *necessarily* it's that case.
I'll totally deny that they're an investment. Real investments apply to things like businesses. Investment is leveraging capital that's otherwise just sitting around to generate real value, and you get a cut of that value. Gambling on the price of BTC is just speculation, not investment.
When I read this I have some hope that BTC might actually develop into a real currency:
http://blog.archive.org/2013/04/03/how-the-internet-archive-is-having-great-time-with-bitcoin/
Twitch channel
it is a necessity if we are ever going to move forward with the removal of international borders and create a true global community.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Anyway, some shops like Hexide use bitcoins for digital items (they specialize in Team Fortress 2 items), because PayPal doesn't cover digital items. eBay stopped allowing people to sell MTGO cards on eBay after scammers used stolen credit cards to buy cards and tickets.