Here is the thing. They aren't using the word to refer to gay people. They are using it to refer to a situation they don't like. That's a world of difference.
So it'd be okay for a white person to say "that's so black" when referring to something they don't like so long as it's not directed towards a black person? Maybe even to call a non-black person they don't like a ******?
Edit: Alternatively, what of, for instance, saying a greedy person is "being a Jew"? Is that somehow not anti-Semitic because you're not actually using the word to refer to a Jewish person?
Here is the thing. They aren't using the word to refer to gay people. They are using it to refer to a situation they don't like. That's a world of difference.
No...it really really doesn't. They are still choosing to use a word that denotes a sexual orientation and relating to a situation they feel is bad, wrong or otherwise detrimental. If you're making a conscious choice to use that particular word when there are plenty of other more appropriate words without denigrating connotations. Then you are by your own choice choosing to support the sociological, historical and cultural prejudices that helped foster that atmosphere. After that, all the iterations of "No guys and gals it's totally ok!" is just making an excuse for it. Part of that whole, being part of civilization, newfangled thing. Is that you know, OTHER people exist. And a context that is ok for you does not translate to a context ok for everyone else.
Nice way to prove that you're a douche-bag. Guess what? Gay people aren't some homogenous group that all think the same. Did you know there are gay republicans, and even gays that don't support gay marriage (I have no idea why, but hey that's their opinion)? The more you know...
BTW, I lived in the south, deep south, Swainsboro to be exact when I was growing up.
Please. If you'd read what I posted, you'd realize exactly how I didn't say anything of that nature.
Gay people are just that: people. And each person is an individual, unique. I simply expressed my skepticism of the fact that you claim to be gay while defending homophobia; it's nothing I haven't seen before it's just exceedingly rare.
That being said, I'm fine with you having your opinions; you should just realize that the what you're advocating hurts other people and doesn't help anyone.
EDIT: I hate it how people can't get it through their heads: When you say "That's gay," describing something negative, the implication is that bad things are gay, and therefore gay things are bad.
To be blunt about it, I don't think anyone except the gay community should have any right to dictate how the word "******" should be used. Think about it this way: Black people reclaimed "the N word." They didn't sit around wanting one thing to come of it while white people told them, oh no, it's okay to use "******" because you aren't really being racist, you're just removing the word from its original meaning. Reclamation is why black people get to say the word within their own communities but white people don't get to say it period. In the same way with gay people and "******," they don't need straight people deciding how to use the slurs which are symbols of past and current oppression. Especially when, as landmage said, their armchair opinion stems from a lack of actual experience with the matter.
Also to make that tired old argument that "******" and "gay" have been removed from meaning "homosexual" when used pejoratively is to ignore the vast amount of homophobia present with people who do sling those words around.
The first paragraph I think I disagree with, I personally find the sparing use of certain slurs, some that apply to myself, some that don't, incredibly amusing, though the key here is to use them sparingly, and in a way that makes it clear you are not advocating bigotry towards anybody. As for use of the N-word within and outside of the black community, I hope someday a white person can be friendly by calling a black person the n-word, r prounounced or unpronounced, and that that black person can be friendly by calling the white person the N-word back. Or to put it another way, I hope white children will one day be playing with black children and when someone says in a friendly way "hey little n-words" all the children look up excitedly.
I also don't buy into the philosophy that you have to belong to a certain group to use word X or Y. One reason I don't care for this philosophy is this situation. You come into a group of people, you here one of them using the N-word kind of excessively, they are white, you tell them they should not being using this word unless they are black, you then find out that they are in fact 1/4 black. Do you now have to be atleast some portion black. This is just one problem with the philosophy of "if you aren't one of us you can't use our word".
As for the second paragraph, sometimes when people that I know are not homophobic say the F word or that's so gay, sometimes it can hurt, sometimes it doesn't, shrug, maybe easier said than done but don't take it personally, and if you do choose to ask them to refrain from using those words in that manner, be cool about it, because if you are cool about it they might cut you some slack, and tone it down a bit.
When I was still playing magic my store was very accepting of the LGBT players. The owner of my LGS would kick people out for using "gay" in a non-respectful manner. I knew 3 or 4 LGBT teens/adults that played often and 8 or 9 others that played once a month. The people in my store who didn't like it either went to another store or didn't say anything. A couple people had a problem with allowing LGBT people in our store, but they ended up just going to play at another store instead of complaining further. It was never really a huge deal because we were there to play magic, not talk about sex.
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My best friend, who I met through Magic, is gay and even though there are a few right wing conservatives at my store, he is accepted by basically everyone (Even them Republicans). Nobody cares either way, he is a person and is treated like such. Some stupid comments here and there, but that's to be expected I guess.
They are accepted just fine and anyone who says something offensive would probably get himself banned from the shop pretty quickly.
I remember someone getting a scolding from a TO once for going on about how gay it is to counter things. He did stop that though when the TO told them that there are gay people at the events and that he is being a jerk.
You're not. There's 2 other LGBT regulars at our store, at least.
Huh... I've been oblivious to it - too busy playing Magic most the time to hear otherwise I guess You'll have to tell me who they are later for curiosity's sake.
Oh please. Im gay but im not offended by people using "gay" or "******" to describe what they don't like. Language evolves and people need to understand that. When someone says "thats so gay", they do not mean to offend (in fact alot of those people are very pro-LGBT). They are just using it in the colloqiual sense with absolutly no ill-will attachted.
Frankly whether you are personally offended versus a many who are is completely irrelevant to the point. At IxidorV2 and I's LGS the amount of slurs that could be taken as homophobic is more than excessive at times. Do I find them calling each other ****, gay or whatever all the time offensive? The words themselves no. It's the repeated use of the words and the obvious lack of maturity that gets to me. These people need to grow up and use their big boy words. And, frankly, any argument made for the use of these words really misses the mark in assuming language is so black and white and having not been there to take into consideration context, the person(s) or tone among other things. One can't simply assume what is behind words being used when they aren't present.
We have one out gay guy at our store, most people just don't care, the only ones who made some kind of stink about it when they learned were some high school kids, but they have mostly just shut up about it now.
You really have a massive variety of people and belief systems in MTG players. I do NOT know if blanket statements such as "MTG players are more liberal" or "MTG players are more accepting because they tend to be socially awkward people" are necessarily true. We have already seen many threads on here concerning whether MTG is a woman-friendly community.
There are a ton of factors that figure in to the group makeup of a LGS and I think that you are just as likely to run in to insensitive and immature people as you are more mature and understanding people (disclaimer: maturity knows nothing of age).
Every LGS I have visited has a few people that are abrasive. I spend most of my MTG playtime in private settings just because of this.
If you have a LGS that is convenient but has people who are not LGBT-friendly then I would see what I could do about finding groups of friendly people that are willing to gather outside the LGS atmosphere and leave trips to the LGS for buying cards.
My LGS is more or less apathetic about the behavior that goes on in the store but I still like the owner. I purchase my cards and leave. Unfortunately, this keeps me from most tournament play and really only satisfies a casual player.
Even though I do not believe the part about fathers is correct, the rest of it is pretty accurate in some cases. I know some people that call each other ****** just as weird friendly joking gesture. I know some people where, they have feelings of homosexual love, but don't know any other way of expressing it. So they resort to pseudo-jokingly "acting gay". Its almost like trying to send a hidden message hoping the other person will get it, and reciprocate. But if they do get it, and react negatively, you can just go "hey man, its just a joke", and carry on like nothing happened. I used to do it myself a little before I got over it and came out.
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Its strange really. Telling someone they arae immoral for eating meat is okay, but telling them they are immoral becauase they are gay is wrong? I honestly don't mind if people say that practicing homosexuality is immoral (as long as they are polite in expressing thier opinion and not hostile). There are alot of things I find immoral (driving fuel-inneficient cars, being wasteful, ect...). There are certian things everyone finds immoral. Why should someone be offended by certian things being found immoral at not others.
I know you might not be receptive to this comment on first glance, but... I think you should mind.
It's one thing to take an open palm approach to the muddy scenario of religion being monstrous in-set public opinion, but you're doing it at the cost of bandying the objection of immorality.
You're not bandying it, but the sword is being swung right in front of you. Would you be silent if it were tossed at another? Do you react if this 'polite nonhostile' person is not treated in the way you would him? Can you justify the difference in the scenarios you both allow?
I am not making some cockneyed Sapir-Whorfian corollary here about treating two things the same with the same word. Something is at stake here you might not see at all.
The wrong falls into three kinds: malum in se (wrong in itself), malum prohibitum (wrong because it is prohibited), and the wrong which cannot be policed in principle. The one which is not like the others is the second, because in here fit traffic laws for driving on only one side of the road, a law directly contradicted between nations. No one puts stock in that the way they do the other two. An example of the first is fraud, murder, or theft. An example of the third is betrayal.
Of the other two, they say the thing is prohibited because it must be, our morals demand it - or we wish it could be. Its nature in itself is something offensive , and offensive in a way that is felt licenses the majority to bend the freedoms of outsiders who don't respect it. People have many differing opinions and feelings, but you will get a person to admit the difference between the clear unjust, and the offensive-to-him. If you are culturally literate you are aware of how much sleep people can lose over even that example of the third sort of wrong.
Long story short, whether literate or not, people have a concept here, and it's serious to them.
Do you want there to be a word, that can be charged with such baggage, but still passed over with politesse and nonhostility? Is it right that this same language becomes ever weaker and weaker , as Human beings let talk of it but just don't react to it the way they used to? These arguments are not had because, not that we can let one another believe what works for him, not because we think we need to demonstrate civility, but because we are letting each other be self-concerned and awash in 'his business'... our behaviour still dividing us. Just with a sinister quietude.
We're not fighting for the idea there is a right and wrong, giving up because there is a climate in which we can get support anyway, and making true sense of differences is hard.
... that's harping on social degeneracy, which is a thesis beyond the scope of this thread, and I might disagree with myself on a different day. Just stick an IMO in front of it; but I hold to the paragraph prior.
Let's throw the Sapir-Whorf corollary out there. How do you expect, you invite someone to sort something they tell you outright is immoral? This -is- a critical word for the function of society. It defines our species. It's the absence of things that make it worth it to hang around each other and fight each other's battles (which, unless you have mecha, you need to do).
That word _has_ an agenda attached to it. You are incapable of getting out of playing the game , no matter what inaction you take, as soon as it's uttered.
A person is saying that something you know to be necessary is fundamentally corrupt and to be avoided, universally.
So...
You back off from the confrontation seeing where your fellow man is coming from, but if you're winning a battle for one side, you're kind of playing against the word 'immoral'. And that's something I think you have to care about. Doesn't it have to mean something? What is left to you to say the real Evil is ?
You can't really believe he's right to call it that. If you imagine you are just 'letting him to his devices' - hey, Time is finite, I get it - because it's not in it for you to correct him. . . Good man, mirror that argument. Is he doing what he did with equal lack of regard? Is that concerning? Or if he is doing it with regard, are you fair with not responding? Or perhaps it's more frightening if his claim is thought through.
I don't think this is semantics and I don't think that just leaving the cases of the obvious evil to being 'obvious' is enough. Sure, you agree in the instance, but your principle is undercut. If you believe something then there are words for it. If the words to state your position coherently are taken, then so too is your very ability for belief.
Oppression can take root in many ways. And self-worth can be eroded in many ways.
Please think a while longer on whether this is really a battle you want to surrender every time. And know who is losing so you can own your decision.
Huh, I may have to try your LGS again if that kinda stuff's the norm. Though no one at my LGS gives me any crap except for like one guy who's kind of an ass... I'd laugh so hard if it was the same person.
If we're talking about the person whose last name is related to matte white sleeves being placed on a head then we're talking about the same person You really ought to show up more often, yo. Casual Saturday-night magic at Pastimes is where it's at. Though about half of the regulars are going to GP Tacoma this weekend, including the MTGS members Zebi and Mr.C
On the subject at hand... I still use gay and *** in my speech, though only really when I'm talking with close friends. I'm bi/pan-sexual... but for some reason it's been hard to weed it out of my speech. Obviously I don't mean it in a homophobic way, but still it is annoying for me.
As for use of the N-word within and outside of the black community, I hope someday a white person can be friendly by calling a black person the n-word, r prounounced or unpronounced, and that that black person can be friendly by calling the white person the N-word back. Or to put it another way, I hope white children will one day be playing with black children and when someone says in a friendly way "hey little n-words" all the children look up excitedly.
Yeah, in a perfect world no words would have such power over people as "******" for black people and "******" for gay people, but in the real world things aren't going to improve when people outside a group try to dictate when slurs become acceptable to say.
Do you now have to be atleast some portion black. This is just one problem with the philosophy of "if you aren't one of us you can't use our word".
Is that person part of that group? If so they can use the word, if not they can't. The real world is never as black-and-white (no pun intended) as reductionist examples try to make them. There are always going to be grey areas that have to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis and ambiguous situations where there's no answer even within the affected communities.
Quote from unkyunk »
I know some people where, they have feelings of homosexual love, but don't know any other way of expressing it. So they resort to pseudo-jokingly "acting gay". Its almost like trying to send a hidden message hoping the other person will get it, and reciprocate. But if they do get it, and react negatively, you can just go "hey man, its just a joke", and carry on like nothing happened. I used to do it myself a little before I got over it and came out.
Then they really ought to find a different way of expressing it, to be blunt. We're talking about mature adults who should be able to realize that "pseudo-jokingly 'acting gay'" might send the message, but that it's also prone to causing offense on several different fronts. Put another way, anything that relies on being able to fall back on the appearance of being homophobic is not the answer.
Quote from Talore »
If we're talking about the person whose last name is related to matte white sleeves being placed on a head then we're talking about the same person You really ought to show up more often, yo.
Then yes, same person, and relevant to the thread, I had some amusing back-and-forth with him at FNM earlier tonight that really shows some people are glacially slow on the uptake (tl;dr obviously trans person refers to herself as female, gets blank, genuinely confused "why would you do that?" kind of reaction). As for the second part, where I'm living now makes it slightly less of a trek so I might just at some point.
Then they really ought to find a different way of expressing it, to be blunt. We're talking about mature adults who should be able to realize that "pseudo-jokingly 'acting gay'" might send the message, but that it's also prone to causing offense on several different fronts. Put another way, anything that relies on being able to fall back on the appearance of being homophobic is not the answer.
This is the problem here. Nowhere in that post did I state the purpose is to fall back on the appearance of homophobia. You just read that into the post. The stated purpose was to fall back on the idea that you were joking and not being serious. Nothing homophobic there at all.
You're injecting the presence of homophobia where there is none. Now its all fine to say that you are offended by the use of the word ******. But its silly to say that anyone who uses the word ****** is homophobic, or that even the majority who use it are homophobic.
Healthy? Well, when you are in a small Bible Belt town expressing it that way is much more healthy for your social life than saying "hey guys im gay".
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We are all a**es to each other in that "bro" way so it's not like any of us care, we know a couple of openly gay magic players, one shows up with his BF from time to time and generally go with the flow of things. We aren't there to judge or hurt anyones feelings, we are all big boys and girls. Don't try to put yourself above others and demand special treatment and no one will give a crap in the magic community. We are all a little special in our own ways. Some of us are fat, some of us are bald, some have extra hair, some are physically handicapped, some mental handicaps, so it's not like we are nazi german and have set guidelines for how our community members have to act and look.
Some of us are fat, some of us are bald, some have extra hair, some are physically handicapped, some mental handicaps, so it's not like we are nazi german and have set guidelines for how our community members have to act and look.
Well, I would expect at least a few guidelines towards behavior in a normal setting. My local game scene has a couple of policies in regards to profanity, body odor, and public displays of affection because there are children usually around.
As for ostracizing a member of the community for a certain quality, I'd like to thing that my community is better than that.
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Beyond my own preference for other women, I have no idea who's what at my LGS -- although I can't say I'd care or have any desire to speak about such things. I generally find public discussion of sexuality in inappropriate locales, such as a gaming store, to be, well, rather inappropriate.
Heyo, just curious if as far as you are aware your local game shop/play group had any gay/bi/trans magic players. Also, what do you feel the level of acceptance of these players is among the rest of the folks at the shop? Including myself(I'm bisexual) my local shop has a couple guys that are gay that show up now and again and I so far have felt very accepted there.
Why does it matter? Why does it friggin' matter if you're gay, straight, bisexual, or you had new parts added/removed?
This is the problem with the LGBT community, and even my friends who fall into that community agree: there's so much "We want to be accepted" and there is always the problem of it is "shoved" in the face of anyone who is asked. "I'm gay, got a problem?" No, I don't have a problem with you being gay. What I have a problem with is you consistently needing to validate that you are, in fact, gay every time you see me, like it somehow makes you special.
I have a friend who is openly gay and a furry. He shows up at tournaments with animal ears and a tail. He constantly asks, "If you could be an animal, what would it be?" We tell him we wouldn't, he says he'd be a hyena. We tell him we don't are. We tell him good for him, but no. He continues to tell us he's gay and likes to yiff.
You want to be accepted? Fine. But you don't need to make a thread asking about general acceptance of your lifestyle. If you don't force your views on anyone, you are accepted by everyone but the most closed-minded of individuals. If you can't accept that, then you can hide under a rock.
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You want to be accepted? Fine. But you don't need to make a thread asking about general acceptance of your lifestyle. If you don't force your views on anyone, you are accepted by everyone but the most closed-minded of individuals. If you can't accept that, then you can hide under a rock.
I don't know of many people who are "forcing" their gayness on people. This question isn't about people wanting to walk around their LGS going "I'M A HOMO! TRA-LA-LA!~ Hey sailor, looking for a good time? ;D <3" ...
It's more a matter of feeling safe and comfortable in an environment that you go to relax and have fun in. And it turns out, having people doing fake "funny" homosexual advances/innuendo on each other and using a fundamental quality of who you are as a disparaging term or insult (this is so gay, you gay!, "OMG, you're such a ***!", etc) can make you feel awkward and uncomfortable.
I'm gay (bi), but am not out to my gaming community (hasn't come up for the most part, so it's not relevant). But I will say that the things people say and do at my LGS cause discomfort and awkwardness, and leads me to suspect that if the cat were to come out of the bag, while I wouldn't be treated hostilely per say, I would be treated differently (either constantly ripped on as "the gay guy" or people behaving awkwardly around me).
So in essence this is much more about whether your LGS is a friendly and neutral environment in which peoples' language and behavior isn't making for a hostile or unpleasant atmosphere towards people who happen to be gay - not a question of whether gay people are met with torches at pitchforks at the LGS.
This is the problem with the LGBT community, and even my friends who fall into that community agree: there's so much "We want to be accepted" and there is always the problem of it is "shoved" in the face of anyone who is asked. "I'm gay, got a problem?" No, I don't have a problem with you being gay. What I have a problem with is you consistently needing to validate that you are, in fact, gay every time you see me, like it somehow makes you special.
So because someone falls under an LGBTQ category, they suddenly validate themselves to everyone, that they shove it in everyone's face? Laughable.
You want to be accepted? Fine. But you don't need to make a thread asking about general acceptance of your lifestyle. If you don't force your views on anyone, you are accepted by everyone but the most closed-minded of individuals. If you can't accept that, then you can hide under a rock.
Are you really angry because of a thread? Really?!? This is hardly an appropriate reaction. There are still parts of society that don't accept and/or hate LGBTQ people. It is an actual issue. It isn't about people parading their sexuality, it's about people being prejudged based on knowledge of their sexuality.
At my LGS one of my friends is gay, and also quite a good level 1 judge (hopefully level 2 in not too long). There are also three lesbians, two of which are quite active. One of the three is a level 1 judge.
Their sexuality seems to be a non-issue for the most part. We do have some fun with the subject though, such as when my friend (the gay judge) suggested me and another friend dump our GFs and get boyfriends instead. My other friend replied that he thought it sounded "kinda gay", and we all had a laugh. Being straight/gay isn't exactly at the top of the list for subjects to talk about though. Since we are both judges, judging and TOing comes up the most, then social events, then a bunch of other subjects. His boyfriend knows a lot about computer programing and IT, which is interesting even if I am not that good at it, so if he is present that subject may come up as well.
The stated purpose was to fall back on the idea that you were joking and not being serious. Nothing homophobic there at all.
Treating homosexuality as a joke seems a tad homophobic to me ("acting gay" for a laugh seems to homophobia as putting on blackface for a laugh is to racism).
Quote from FaheyUSMC »
This is the problem with the LGBT community, and even my friends who fall into that community agree: there's so much "We want to be accepted" and there is always the problem of it is "shoved" in the face of anyone who is asked. "I'm gay, got a problem?" No, I don't have a problem with you being gay. What I have a problem with is you consistently needing to validate that you are, in fact, gay every time you see me, like it somehow makes you special.
I think this is a perception issue. Few if any gay players are actually going to go about being all "have I mentioned in the last hour that I'm gay?" to you, but you might feel that this is the case if you hold them to different standards than you hold heterosexuals. For instance, when a straight guy is talking about girls he likes, or relationships of his, or whatever, it gets accepted as a simple part of conversation. But when a gay guy is talking about guys he likes, or relationships of his, suddenly it becomes "shoving it in people's faces," even when he acts no differently about it than straight people do for their sexuality. And make no mistake, I do imagine that if you cared to look at it in such a way, straight people would be "shoving it in people's faces" just as often if not more often than gay people "shove" it in your face. While this double standard may not be outright homophobia (although it definitely comes off as such), it's definitely heterosexist, which isn't a very good place to be in.
tl;dr Gay people being open about their sexuality aren't shoving anything in anyone's faces that straight people don't already do. Any problems with the former but not the latter are personal issues.
I have a friend who is openly gay and a furry. He shows up at tournaments with animal ears and a tail. He constantly asks, "If you could be an animal, what would it be?" We tell him we wouldn't, he says he'd be a hyena. We tell him we don't are. We tell him good for him, but no. He continues to tell us he's gay and likes to yiff.
And I'm both openly pansexual and visibly trans. I show up at tournaments dressing pretty much normal, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've ever mentioned being trans or pansexual, discounting times when other people brought it up first (and also not including the pronouns I use when referring to myself in the third person). And most of the time when people bring up the subject I actually don't pursue it very far.
In short, just because one person annoys you doesn't mean you get to use them to generalize outward into an entire spectrum of people.
If you don't force your views on anyone, you are accepted by everyone but the most closed-minded of individuals.
This is actually a very common argument, and I'm always puzzled by how it never seems to work in reverse. When someone throws heterosexist arguments at queer people and follows it up with "don't force your views on people," they're doing the exact thing they say not to do, yet in their mind it's apparently a different thing. In all seriousness, how would it be any less valid of me to say "don't force your heterosexist views on anyone" than for you to say "don't force your LGBT stuff on anyone"?
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So it'd be okay for a white person to say "that's so black" when referring to something they don't like so long as it's not directed towards a black person? Maybe even to call a non-black person they don't like a ******?
Edit: Alternatively, what of, for instance, saying a greedy person is "being a Jew"? Is that somehow not anti-Semitic because you're not actually using the word to refer to a Jewish person?
No...it really really doesn't. They are still choosing to use a word that denotes a sexual orientation and relating to a situation they feel is bad, wrong or otherwise detrimental. If you're making a conscious choice to use that particular word when there are plenty of other more appropriate words without denigrating connotations. Then you are by your own choice choosing to support the sociological, historical and cultural prejudices that helped foster that atmosphere. After that, all the iterations of "No guys and gals it's totally ok!" is just making an excuse for it. Part of that whole, being part of civilization, newfangled thing. Is that you know, OTHER people exist. And a context that is ok for you does not translate to a context ok for everyone else.
Please. If you'd read what I posted, you'd realize exactly how I didn't say anything of that nature.
Gay people are just that: people. And each person is an individual, unique. I simply expressed my skepticism of the fact that you claim to be gay while defending homophobia; it's nothing I haven't seen before it's just exceedingly rare.
That being said, I'm fine with you having your opinions; you should just realize that the what you're advocating hurts other people and doesn't help anyone.
EDIT: I hate it how people can't get it through their heads: When you say "That's gay," describing something negative, the implication is that bad things are gay, and therefore gay things are bad.
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The first paragraph I think I disagree with, I personally find the sparing use of certain slurs, some that apply to myself, some that don't, incredibly amusing, though the key here is to use them sparingly, and in a way that makes it clear you are not advocating bigotry towards anybody. As for use of the N-word within and outside of the black community, I hope someday a white person can be friendly by calling a black person the n-word, r prounounced or unpronounced, and that that black person can be friendly by calling the white person the N-word back. Or to put it another way, I hope white children will one day be playing with black children and when someone says in a friendly way "hey little n-words" all the children look up excitedly.
I also don't buy into the philosophy that you have to belong to a certain group to use word X or Y. One reason I don't care for this philosophy is this situation. You come into a group of people, you here one of them using the N-word kind of excessively, they are white, you tell them they should not being using this word unless they are black, you then find out that they are in fact 1/4 black. Do you now have to be atleast some portion black. This is just one problem with the philosophy of "if you aren't one of us you can't use our word".
As for the second paragraph, sometimes when people that I know are not homophobic say the F word or that's so gay, sometimes it can hurt, sometimes it doesn't, shrug, maybe easier said than done but don't take it personally, and if you do choose to ask them to refrain from using those words in that manner, be cool about it, because if you are cool about it they might cut you some slack, and tone it down a bit.
Edit: for reference I am a bisexual white male.
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They are accepted just fine and anyone who says something offensive would probably get himself banned from the shop pretty quickly.
I remember someone getting a scolding from a TO once for going on about how gay it is to counter things. He did stop that though when the TO told them that there are gay people at the events and that he is being a jerk.
Other than that it seems ok.
Why would Republicans not accept him?
Specifically male homosexuals. But, then, it also has a long history of being the correct term (as in, not a slur) for anal penetration.
Neither of those meanings are "valid" in colloquial English anymore, and the word is pretty much a non-word now.
Huh... I've been oblivious to it - too busy playing Magic most the time to hear otherwise I guess You'll have to tell me who they are later for curiosity's sake.
Frankly whether you are personally offended versus a many who are is completely irrelevant to the point. At IxidorV2 and I's LGS the amount of slurs that could be taken as homophobic is more than excessive at times. Do I find them calling each other ****, gay or whatever all the time offensive? The words themselves no. It's the repeated use of the words and the obvious lack of maturity that gets to me. These people need to grow up and use their big boy words. And, frankly, any argument made for the use of these words really misses the mark in assuming language is so black and white and having not been there to take into consideration context, the person(s) or tone among other things. One can't simply assume what is behind words being used when they aren't present.
(Also known as Xenphire)
There are a ton of factors that figure in to the group makeup of a LGS and I think that you are just as likely to run in to insensitive and immature people as you are more mature and understanding people (disclaimer: maturity knows nothing of age).
Every LGS I have visited has a few people that are abrasive. I spend most of my MTG playtime in private settings just because of this.
If you have a LGS that is convenient but has people who are not LGBT-friendly then I would see what I could do about finding groups of friendly people that are willing to gather outside the LGS atmosphere and leave trips to the LGS for buying cards.
My LGS is more or less apathetic about the behavior that goes on in the store but I still like the owner. I purchase my cards and leave. Unfortunately, this keeps me from most tournament play and really only satisfies a casual player.
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I know you might not be receptive to this comment on first glance, but... I think you should mind.
It's one thing to take an open palm approach to the muddy scenario of
religion being monstrousin-set public opinion, but you're doing it at the cost of bandying the objection of immorality.You're not bandying it, but the sword is being swung right in front of you. Would you be silent if it were tossed at another? Do you react if this 'polite nonhostile' person is not treated in the way you would him? Can you justify the difference in the scenarios you both allow?
I am not making some cockneyed Sapir-Whorfian corollary here about treating two things the same with the same word. Something is at stake here you might not see at all.
Do you want there to be a word, that can be charged with such baggage, but still passed over with politesse and nonhostility? Is it right that this same language becomes ever weaker and weaker , as Human beings let talk of it but just don't react to it the way they used to? These arguments are not had because, not that we can let one another believe what works for him, not because we think we need to demonstrate civility, but because we are letting each other be self-concerned and awash in 'his business'... our behaviour still dividing us. Just with a sinister quietude.
We're not fighting for the idea there is a right and wrong, giving up because there is a climate in which we can get support anyway, and making true sense of differences is hard.
... that's harping on social degeneracy, which is a thesis beyond the scope of this thread, and I might disagree with myself on a different day. Just stick an IMO in front of it; but I hold to the paragraph prior.
That word _has_ an agenda attached to it. You are incapable of getting out of playing the game , no matter what inaction you take, as soon as it's uttered.
A person is saying that something you know to be necessary is fundamentally corrupt and to be avoided, universally.
So...
I don't think this is semantics and I don't think that just leaving the cases of the obvious evil to being 'obvious' is enough. Sure, you agree in the instance, but your principle is undercut. If you believe something then there are words for it. If the words to state your position coherently are taken, then so too is your very ability for belief.
Oppression can take root in many ways. And self-worth can be eroded in many ways.
Please think a while longer on whether this is really a battle you want to surrender every time. And know who is losing so you can own your decision.
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On the subject at hand... I still use gay and *** in my speech, though only really when I'm talking with close friends. I'm bi/pan-sexual... but for some reason it's been hard to weed it out of my speech. Obviously I don't mean it in a homophobic way, but still it is annoying for me.
Yeah, in a perfect world no words would have such power over people as "******" for black people and "******" for gay people, but in the real world things aren't going to improve when people outside a group try to dictate when slurs become acceptable to say.
Is that person part of that group? If so they can use the word, if not they can't. The real world is never as black-and-white (no pun intended) as reductionist examples try to make them. There are always going to be grey areas that have to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis and ambiguous situations where there's no answer even within the affected communities.
Then they really ought to find a different way of expressing it, to be blunt. We're talking about mature adults who should be able to realize that "pseudo-jokingly 'acting gay'" might send the message, but that it's also prone to causing offense on several different fronts. Put another way, anything that relies on being able to fall back on the appearance of being homophobic is not the answer.
Then yes, same person, and relevant to the thread, I had some amusing back-and-forth with him at FNM earlier tonight that really shows some people are glacially slow on the uptake (tl;dr obviously trans person refers to herself as female, gets blank, genuinely confused "why would you do that?" kind of reaction). As for the second part, where I'm living now makes it slightly less of a trek so I might just at some point.
You're injecting the presence of homophobia where there is none. Now its all fine to say that you are offended by the use of the word ******. But its silly to say that anyone who uses the word ****** is homophobic, or that even the majority who use it are homophobic.
Healthy? Well, when you are in a small Bible Belt town expressing it that way is much more healthy for your social life than saying "hey guys im gay".
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Because habits are hard to break.
I'm trying to stop calling people "dicks" because I don't wnat my daughter to pick it up... but dang it's hard.
Well, I would expect at least a few guidelines towards behavior in a normal setting. My local game scene has a couple of policies in regards to profanity, body odor, and public displays of affection because there are children usually around.
As for ostracizing a member of the community for a certain quality, I'd like to thing that my community is better than that.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
Why does it matter? Why does it friggin' matter if you're gay, straight, bisexual, or you had new parts added/removed?
This is the problem with the LGBT community, and even my friends who fall into that community agree: there's so much "We want to be accepted" and there is always the problem of it is "shoved" in the face of anyone who is asked. "I'm gay, got a problem?" No, I don't have a problem with you being gay. What I have a problem with is you consistently needing to validate that you are, in fact, gay every time you see me, like it somehow makes you special.
I have a friend who is openly gay and a furry. He shows up at tournaments with animal ears and a tail. He constantly asks, "If you could be an animal, what would it be?" We tell him we wouldn't, he says he'd be a hyena. We tell him we don't are. We tell him good for him, but no. He continues to tell us he's gay and likes to yiff.
You want to be accepted? Fine. But you don't need to make a thread asking about general acceptance of your lifestyle. If you don't force your views on anyone, you are accepted by everyone but the most closed-minded of individuals. If you can't accept that, then you can hide under a rock.
Captain, United States Marines
"Peace through superior firepower."
I don't know of many people who are "forcing" their gayness on people. This question isn't about people wanting to walk around their LGS going "I'M A HOMO! TRA-LA-LA!~ Hey sailor, looking for a good time? ;D <3" ...
It's more a matter of feeling safe and comfortable in an environment that you go to relax and have fun in. And it turns out, having people doing fake "funny" homosexual advances/innuendo on each other and using a fundamental quality of who you are as a disparaging term or insult (this is so gay, you gay!, "OMG, you're such a ***!", etc) can make you feel awkward and uncomfortable.
I'm gay (bi), but am not out to my gaming community (hasn't come up for the most part, so it's not relevant). But I will say that the things people say and do at my LGS cause discomfort and awkwardness, and leads me to suspect that if the cat were to come out of the bag, while I wouldn't be treated hostilely per say, I would be treated differently (either constantly ripped on as "the gay guy" or people behaving awkwardly around me).
So in essence this is much more about whether your LGS is a friendly and neutral environment in which peoples' language and behavior isn't making for a hostile or unpleasant atmosphere towards people who happen to be gay - not a question of whether gay people are met with torches at pitchforks at the LGS.
Please don't evade the censor. -Viricide
Because some people hate you for it?
So because someone falls under an LGBTQ category, they suddenly validate themselves to everyone, that they shove it in everyone's face? Laughable.
Are you really angry because of a thread? Really?!? This is hardly an appropriate reaction. There are still parts of society that don't accept and/or hate LGBTQ people. It is an actual issue. It isn't about people parading their sexuality, it's about people being prejudged based on knowledge of their sexuality.
Their sexuality seems to be a non-issue for the most part. We do have some fun with the subject though, such as when my friend (the gay judge) suggested me and another friend dump our GFs and get boyfriends instead. My other friend replied that he thought it sounded "kinda gay", and we all had a laugh. Being straight/gay isn't exactly at the top of the list for subjects to talk about though. Since we are both judges, judging and TOing comes up the most, then social events, then a bunch of other subjects. His boyfriend knows a lot about computer programing and IT, which is interesting even if I am not that good at it, so if he is present that subject may come up as well.
Treating homosexuality as a joke seems a tad homophobic to me ("acting gay" for a laugh seems to homophobia as putting on blackface for a laugh is to racism).
I think this is a perception issue. Few if any gay players are actually going to go about being all "have I mentioned in the last hour that I'm gay?" to you, but you might feel that this is the case if you hold them to different standards than you hold heterosexuals. For instance, when a straight guy is talking about girls he likes, or relationships of his, or whatever, it gets accepted as a simple part of conversation. But when a gay guy is talking about guys he likes, or relationships of his, suddenly it becomes "shoving it in people's faces," even when he acts no differently about it than straight people do for their sexuality. And make no mistake, I do imagine that if you cared to look at it in such a way, straight people would be "shoving it in people's faces" just as often if not more often than gay people "shove" it in your face. While this double standard may not be outright homophobia (although it definitely comes off as such), it's definitely heterosexist, which isn't a very good place to be in.
tl;dr Gay people being open about their sexuality aren't shoving anything in anyone's faces that straight people don't already do. Any problems with the former but not the latter are personal issues.
And I'm both openly pansexual and visibly trans. I show up at tournaments dressing pretty much normal, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've ever mentioned being trans or pansexual, discounting times when other people brought it up first (and also not including the pronouns I use when referring to myself in the third person). And most of the time when people bring up the subject I actually don't pursue it very far.
In short, just because one person annoys you doesn't mean you get to use them to generalize outward into an entire spectrum of people.
This is actually a very common argument, and I'm always puzzled by how it never seems to work in reverse. When someone throws heterosexist arguments at queer people and follows it up with "don't force your views on people," they're doing the exact thing they say not to do, yet in their mind it's apparently a different thing. In all seriousness, how would it be any less valid of me to say "don't force your heterosexist views on anyone" than for you to say "don't force your LGBT stuff on anyone"?