Well, it's finally happened. Polanski is facing extradition to the US to face his 30 year old sentencing for statutory rape.
In a nutshell, the story is that Polanski was (and still is) a world-famous director and back in the late 70's, he got a 13 year old girl drunk and drugged up at Jack Nicholson's house and proceeded to rape her. He was caught and plead guilty to having sex with a minor. He managed to get himself out of jail citing work reasons and fled the country, never to return. He's spent his exile in Europe, continuing his career as an Oscar-caliber director.
Until this weekend, that is.
While in Switzerland to receive a lifetime achievement award, Swiss police apprehended him as per a request for extradition by US officials who secretly filed the request when they learned of Polanski's plans to visit a country with extradition treaties with America (Polanski had been spending his exile in countries that do not extradite to the US or have limited treaties for extradition). Polanski and his lawyers are fighting the extradition, knowing that if he ever steps foot on American soil he will probably never see freedom again. And foreign officials from both France and Poland (he has dual citizenship with the two) are fighting for him as well.
Our "moral fortitude" in this country makes me sick. Isn't it painfully obvious that this country was founded by puritans?
I am not advocating sex with minors, but what if John Phillips were still alive? What about Woody Allen?? give me an effin break...
One thing you forgot to mention is that Polanski was the husband of Sharon Tate...the chick who was stabbed to death (egregiously) by the Manson Family. Tell me that wouldn't mess you up...
Anyway, I hope the US government wastes money/time/legislation on this so I can pay more taxes for frivelous arrests of non threatening/nonviolent criminals. Cause that is what we "should" be doing :-/.
Our "moral fortitude" in this country makes me sick. Isn't it painfully obvious that this country was founded by puritans?
I am not advocating sex with minors, but what if John Phillips were still alive? What about Woody Allen?? give me an effin break...
One thing you forgot to mention is that Polanski was the husband of Sharon Tate...the chick who was stabbed to death (egregiously) by the Manson Family. Tell me that wouldn't mess you up...
Anyway, I hope the US government wastes money/time/legislation on this so I can pay more taxes for frivelous arrests of non threatening/nonviolent criminals. Cause that is what we "should" be doing :-/.
SO, you're saying that his wife's murder caused Polanski to commit pederasty? I don't think that's how PTSD works.
Polanski perverted the system. He dodged justice. And Europeans have for years played down his crime on the basis that he's famous.
I am sick of that special privilege for famous people. It's disgusting and frankly so was Polanski's crime.
I am utterly appalled that any country (especially France) can support rape. As anti-feminist as I am, there is no excusing what Polanski did and he should be persecuted with the full extent of the law. It doesn't matter if his wife was murdered. Hurting an innocent 13-year-old is inexcusable. I honestly cannot see any good argument why this man should be given a second consideration, especially noting that he fled the United States.
SO, you're saying that his wife's murder caused Polanski to commit pederasty? I don't think that's how PTSD works.
Polanski perverted the system. He dodged justice. And Europeans have for years played down his crime on the basis that he's famous.
I am sick of that special privilege for famous people. It's disgusting and frankly so was Polanski's crime.
Jerry Lee Lewis, Woody Allen, Michael Jackson (RIP), R. Kelley, among others are guilty of the same thing.
I was not rationalizing kiddie-diddling, just saying.... this is an attempt to show the world what we are capable of as opposed to "bringing a threatening fugitive to justice", a more perverted aspect of our culture (ie rape of foreign policy) than famous people priveliges.
EDIT: Don' t you think if this behavior would have continued he would have been busted in Europe? What about Jack Nicholson too? Like, who lets this crap haeen in their house? Anyway...
Jerry Lee Lewis, Woody Allen, Michael Jackson (RIP), R. Kelley, among others are guilty of the same thing.
Are they? None of them pled guilty to it, although some were tried and acquitted. And you can say the Jackson trial was a miscarriage of justice if you want; it doesn't make the Polanski situation not a miscarriage. The difference is, the Polanski situation can now, hopefully, be resolved.
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candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Isn't there a statue of limitations on rape in California? I bet that Polanski will be charged for fleeing the country to evade arrest at best. The victim wants the rape case dismissed just so it'll be over and she'll likely have to take the stand if the case goes to trial. I want to know why the US is so vigorously persuing Polanski. He's 76 and not some big time criminal.
He ran when he knew he was guilty of a pretty serious crime.
He deserves punishment, whether it was then or now, but by waiting so long, he's just been avoiding it. Kind of cowardly if you ask me.
His wife's murder, him being a great director, this is all irrelevant. I like Polanski's films (I have a friend that refuses to watch because of his history), but I think the man DOES deserve to be punished for what he did.
@apaulogy: I think that you lost any hope of people treating your posts in this thread with credibility when you referred to it as 'kiddie-diddling'.
On one hand, it feels like this apprehension is just pettiness on the part of the US. It's been 3 decades, and there are worse criminals that they could be putting effort into apprehending. It's sad how sensationalist our gov't is sometimes.
On the other hand, he never should have fled in the first place. He committed a crime, and even pled guilty. He should have faced his punishment then.
Bitsy is probably correct in that he'll just face charges for fleeing, and not the rape itself. I doubt he sees any jail time. The US just wanted to be able to pat itself on the back by saying that it caught someone that evaded justice for so long. Then some politician will spin this into something like 'We caught Polanski even though it took 3 decades, we'll catch Osama eventually too!!!!!'.
Isn't there a statue of limitations on rape in California? I bet that Polanski will be charged for fleeing the country to evade arrest at best. The victim wants the rape case dismissed just so it'll be over and she'll likely have to take the stand if the case goes to trial. I want to know why the US is so vigorously persuing Polanski. He's 76 and not some big time criminal.
If I'm not mistaken (though I might be, the history of a case five years before my time in a country that's not my own is probably a little fuzzy), Polanski fled the country after the trial concluded and he was found guilty but before sentencing. So there shouldn't need to be a trial for the rape, just the sentencing he skipped out on, though there would be a trial if they charge him for evading arrest.
If the events went like that, he's probably in trouble. Most likely, they will want to make an example out of him, so they'll throw the book at him. Including exacerbated charges for evading, etc.
What bothers me most is that France treats it as if it's no big thing. And France's culture minister has flatly stated that Polanski's artistic achievements have something to do with it.
It's a miscarriage that anyone with influence can get away with a crime.
What bothers me most is that France treats it as if it's no big thing. And France's culture minister has flatly stated that Polanski's artistic achievements have something to do with it.
It's a miscarriage that anyone with influence can get away with a crime.
France has no extradition treaty with the U.S.
Not sure how charges for evading arrest will go, but, since I'm fairly certain Polanski has been charged with everything he could be charged with (just no trial, yet).
Here are the relevant parts to the relevant statute: (Cal. Pen. Code Sec. 799 et seq)
803(d) If the defendant is out of the state when or after the offense
is committed, the prosecution may be commenced as provided in
Section 804 within the limitations of time prescribed by this
chapter, and no time up to a maximum of three years during which the
defendant is not within the state shall be a part of those
limitations.
Ahh, no help there!
804: ... prosecution for an offense is commenced when any of
the following occurs: ...
(d) An arrest warrant or bench warrant is issued, provided the
warrant names or describes the defendant with the same degree of
particularity required for an indictment, information, or complaint.
Ok, there we go.
I don't see how there could be any Statute of Limitations issues.
Was he tried or sentenced in absentia for anything?
A child rapist finally gets what he deserves. How is this a bad thing? I don't give a **** if he was the best director in the world. He did a horrible thing and needs to be punished.
And why on earth would anyone give a confessed child rapist a lifetime achievement award. WTF is wrong with those people.
And why on earth would anyone give a confessed child rapist a lifetime achievement award. WTF is wrong with those people.
Because it cuts both ways. Just like his accomplishments as a director shouldn't absolve him of his sins, his disgusting crime(s) should not diminish his accomplishments as an artist.
For all his terrible actions, he is a highly decorated, world-renowned director and on the basis of his work alone arguably deserves a lifetime achievement award.
According to Wikipedia, it does. However, even if France didn't, condoning and defending rape is a horrible thing. Not having a extradition treaty merely means a nation won't make an effort to search out and extradite a foreign criminal. It does not mean that the country is against every law set forth by the United States, especially one as global and unconditional as one regarding rape. If anything, this gives the European stereotype of lax morals new meaning. You really don't have to be religious to understand what the man did was wrong.
If anything, this gives the European stereotype of lax morals new meaning. You really don't have to be religious to understand what the man did was wrong.
I don't suppose you need me to bring up the concept that morality is not universal and that other cultures may or may not share our views on things.
Well, I just can't believe he had the audacity to continue making movies after that stunt. And why did people even agree to work with him and such? And who would watch his movies. I never would and I wouldn't get within 100ft of that man. Why didn't he have an angry mob of people at his door? Do Europeans just not care about child rapists? Someone trying to avoid prosecution for rape by hiding in the US could never get away with something like that. His career should have ended.
According to Wikipedia, it does. However, even if France didn't, condoning and defending rape is a horrible thing. Not having a extradition treaty merely means a nation won't make an effort to search out and extradite a foreign criminal. It does not mean that the country is against every law set forth by the United States, especially one as global and unconditional as one regarding rape. If anything, this gives the European stereotype of lax morals new meaning. You really don't have to be religious to understand what the man did was wrong.
Ah, I'm sorry -- it has no extradition treaty binding here.
I guess we did extradite Noriega, didn't we.. and we did get back Ira Einhorn... ya, not sure what I was thinking.
I'm trying to find its text now - maybe it doesn't apply to individuals convicted before its going into effect? Countries like the US and France don't simply refuse to comply with treaties quite so blatantly, so there has to be something more.
With Einhorn, for instance, France refused to extradite because they don't extradite where there has been a trial in absentia. Laws were changed, Einhorn was extradited, and so on and so forth.
Well, I just can't believe he had the audacity to continue making movies after that stunt.
What else was he going to do? It's not like there's a great deal of money in that other thing he's famous for ...
And why did people even agree to work with him and such? And who would watch his movies.
Well he was still an acclaimed director who made excellent films. There will always be people who want to work with great artists just as there are those who will pay to see great art.
Which isn't to say he wasn't without controversy, he was plagued by it for three decades. That just didn't stop his work from being appreciated. Which is a good thing.
I have to say that in spite of his great achievements, a child rapist who flees to another country to evade jail is a pretty nasty variety of criminal. Sure you can defend him claiming that he fled because he was scared and that he only committed rape because his parents died in the Holocaust and his wife was murdered by the Manson Family...but guess what, not all holocuast survivors of family members of murder victims are rapists. What happens to you does not excuse violent crimes like rape. Stealing to live if you are a poor drug addled hood rat is somewhat understandable and can be blamed largely on circumstances, but rape and murder cannot.
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I guess we just disagree on a philosophical level, Mikey. I don't think anyone who has done such a terrible crime should ever be given such great praise. I don't care how good of an artist he is, he should have been shamed into obscurity by the public. And I've heard that Manson makes some really nice art, but nobody gives him awards...:rolleyes:
I guess we just disagree on a philosophical level, Mikey. I don't think anyone who has done such a terrible crime should ever be given such great praise.
So were you to watch a movie and love it and afterward I tell you that the writer/director/lead is a convicted murderer, does that somehow diminish your artistic appreciation of the film? I don't see how that's logical at all. Polanski arguably being a bad man does not make his films bad as a result, they exist independent of his crimes.
Mikey is right that Polanski's personal behaviors have no bearing on his ability to create movies, and any awards that he would receive from this.
If you argue otherwise, then you are logically compelled to accept the other half of this argument, which is that people that achieve great accomplishments should be treated less severely by the law in the first place. Fair is fair, afterall.
In reality, he doesn't deserve special privilege, judicially, because of his accomplishments as a movie person. Similarly, his accomplishments as a movie person are not besmirched by the fact that, in real life, he is a scumbag.
Honestly, this is a pretty straightforward and logically obvious viewpoint, it's hard to believe that anyone could disagree. No other argument makes sense.
@ThatOneNinja: Are you a baseball fan? Do you agree that Babe Ruth should be in the Hall of Fame? Afterall, he has a long police record as a womanizer and a violent drunk.
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In a nutshell, the story is that Polanski was (and still is) a world-famous director and back in the late 70's, he got a 13 year old girl drunk and drugged up at Jack Nicholson's house and proceeded to rape her. He was caught and plead guilty to having sex with a minor. He managed to get himself out of jail citing work reasons and fled the country, never to return. He's spent his exile in Europe, continuing his career as an Oscar-caliber director.
Until this weekend, that is.
While in Switzerland to receive a lifetime achievement award, Swiss police apprehended him as per a request for extradition by US officials who secretly filed the request when they learned of Polanski's plans to visit a country with extradition treaties with America (Polanski had been spending his exile in countries that do not extradite to the US or have limited treaties for extradition). Polanski and his lawyers are fighting the extradition, knowing that if he ever steps foot on American soil he will probably never see freedom again. And foreign officials from both France and Poland (he has dual citizenship with the two) are fighting for him as well.
Thoughts?
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Our "moral fortitude" in this country makes me sick. Isn't it painfully obvious that this country was founded by puritans?
I am not advocating sex with minors, but what if John Phillips were still alive? What about Woody Allen?? give me an effin break...
One thing you forgot to mention is that Polanski was the husband of Sharon Tate...the chick who was stabbed to death (egregiously) by the Manson Family. Tell me that wouldn't mess you up...
Anyway, I hope the US government wastes money/time/legislation on this so I can pay more taxes for frivelous arrests of non threatening/nonviolent criminals. Cause that is what we "should" be doing :-/.
SO, you're saying that his wife's murder caused Polanski to commit pederasty? I don't think that's how PTSD works.
Polanski perverted the system. He dodged justice. And Europeans have for years played down his crime on the basis that he's famous.
I am sick of that special privilege for famous people. It's disgusting and frankly so was Polanski's crime.
Jerry Lee Lewis, Woody Allen, Michael Jackson (RIP), R. Kelley, among others are guilty of the same thing.
I was not rationalizing kiddie-diddling, just saying.... this is an attempt to show the world what we are capable of as opposed to "bringing a threatening fugitive to justice", a more perverted aspect of our culture (ie rape of foreign policy) than famous people priveliges.
EDIT: Don' t you think if this behavior would have continued he would have been busted in Europe? What about Jack Nicholson too? Like, who lets this crap haeen in their house? Anyway...
Are they? None of them pled guilty to it, although some were tried and acquitted. And you can say the Jackson trial was a miscarriage of justice if you want; it doesn't make the Polanski situation not a miscarriage. The difference is, the Polanski situation can now, hopefully, be resolved.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
He deserves punishment, whether it was then or now, but by waiting so long, he's just been avoiding it. Kind of cowardly if you ask me.
His wife's murder, him being a great director, this is all irrelevant. I like Polanski's films (I have a friend that refuses to watch because of his history), but I think the man DOES deserve to be punished for what he did.
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On one hand, it feels like this apprehension is just pettiness on the part of the US. It's been 3 decades, and there are worse criminals that they could be putting effort into apprehending. It's sad how sensationalist our gov't is sometimes.
On the other hand, he never should have fled in the first place. He committed a crime, and even pled guilty. He should have faced his punishment then.
Bitsy is probably correct in that he'll just face charges for fleeing, and not the rape itself. I doubt he sees any jail time. The US just wanted to be able to pat itself on the back by saying that it caught someone that evaded justice for so long. Then some politician will spin this into something like 'We caught Polanski even though it took 3 decades, we'll catch Osama eventually too!!!!!'.
If I'm not mistaken (though I might be, the history of a case five years before my time in a country that's not my own is probably a little fuzzy), Polanski fled the country after the trial concluded and he was found guilty but before sentencing. So there shouldn't need to be a trial for the rape, just the sentencing he skipped out on, though there would be a trial if they charge him for evading arrest.
Can anyone clarify the procedure for that?
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It's a miscarriage that anyone with influence can get away with a crime.
Not sure how charges for evading arrest will go, but, since I'm fairly certain Polanski has been charged with everything he could be charged with (just no trial, yet).
Here are the relevant parts to the relevant statute: (Cal. Pen. Code Sec. 799 et seq)
Ahh, no help there!
Ok, there we go.
I don't see how there could be any Statute of Limitations issues.
Was he tried or sentenced in absentia for anything?
Edit: added citation
And why on earth would anyone give a confessed child rapist a lifetime achievement award. WTF is wrong with those people.
Because it cuts both ways. Just like his accomplishments as a director shouldn't absolve him of his sins, his disgusting crime(s) should not diminish his accomplishments as an artist.
For all his terrible actions, he is a highly decorated, world-renowned director and on the basis of his work alone arguably deserves a lifetime achievement award.
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Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
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Katingal: Plane of Chains
According to Wikipedia, it does. However, even if France didn't, condoning and defending rape is a horrible thing. Not having a extradition treaty merely means a nation won't make an effort to search out and extradite a foreign criminal. It does not mean that the country is against every law set forth by the United States, especially one as global and unconditional as one regarding rape. If anything, this gives the European stereotype of lax morals new meaning. You really don't have to be religious to understand what the man did was wrong.
I don't suppose you need me to bring up the concept that morality is not universal and that other cultures may or may not share our views on things.
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Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
I guess we did extradite Noriega, didn't we.. and we did get back Ira Einhorn... ya, not sure what I was thinking.
I'm trying to find its text now - maybe it doesn't apply to individuals convicted before its going into effect? Countries like the US and France don't simply refuse to comply with treaties quite so blatantly, so there has to be something more.
With Einhorn, for instance, France refused to extradite because they don't extradite where there has been a trial in absentia. Laws were changed, Einhorn was extradited, and so on and so forth.
What else was he going to do? It's not like there's a great deal of money in that other thing he's famous for ...
Well he was still an acclaimed director who made excellent films. There will always be people who want to work with great artists just as there are those who will pay to see great art.
Which isn't to say he wasn't without controversy, he was plagued by it for three decades. That just didn't stop his work from being appreciated. Which is a good thing.
Yes. Because he should have been in jail.
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Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
So were you to watch a movie and love it and afterward I tell you that the writer/director/lead is a convicted murderer, does that somehow diminish your artistic appreciation of the film? I don't see how that's logical at all. Polanski arguably being a bad man does not make his films bad as a result, they exist independent of his crimes.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
If you argue otherwise, then you are logically compelled to accept the other half of this argument, which is that people that achieve great accomplishments should be treated less severely by the law in the first place. Fair is fair, afterall.
In reality, he doesn't deserve special privilege, judicially, because of his accomplishments as a movie person. Similarly, his accomplishments as a movie person are not besmirched by the fact that, in real life, he is a scumbag.
Honestly, this is a pretty straightforward and logically obvious viewpoint, it's hard to believe that anyone could disagree. No other argument makes sense.
@ThatOneNinja: Are you a baseball fan? Do you agree that Babe Ruth should be in the Hall of Fame? Afterall, he has a long police record as a womanizer and a violent drunk.