Neither have I haha. Maybe it's because I'm Caucasian. I take pride in my knowledge of US history but I couldn't tell you what month the Emancipation Proclamation was signed (although I think I could make a pretty good guess now), and I definately could not say when Juneteenth became a national holiday.
You know what? Its not a big deal, lets just forget all the old wars and those who died for them. The American Revolution, what was that? War of 1812, when was that fought again? Who cares about the civil war? The great world wars: who was Archduke Ferdinand? Who was Hitler? Who was Benito Mussolini? Joseph Stalin? The war of the roses? George Washington? Queen Elizabeth? The Russian Revolution? Ect. Ect. These are not importent people or events and did nothing to impact our daily life... End sarcasm.
I really hope you were joking, because thats a problem today; history and its importance takes a back seat. It may not be needed in day to day life but it should be known in general.
(I just ratled off some important people and events off the top of my head. They may or may not have anthing to do with America but are important in one way or another in some way. I know that many other people exist and have had an impact on the world we live in and involved in many countries around the world. Respect.)
Thank you, this needed to be said.
Overall, I'm not surprised by the out come of this test. I had a person in my US History class who said that we won our Independence from Spain during an oral quiz. Now this could be an honest mistake. Another classmate of mine said the South won the Civil War....honestly believing it. When we finally taught her that the North won, and got her to memorize she made a bigger ass of herself. She agreed the North won, but apparently she also believed the Confederacy won and the Union lost.
Living in the West makes me sad. My test results are grouped with California.
i'm fairly certain that statistic was heavily biased; asking uneducated people (look at the variance between >50,000 and <50,000 dollars income), residents of the household instead (which may include children), etc.
If it is true, loss of faith in humanity, removing my genitals so my kids don't grow up in this world, etc etc.
These results aren't surprising. I wouldn't blame the education system. Anyone who went to school learned it at some point. Many people, as decades separate their schooling and their corporate lives forget things they learned. To many people it's just a day to barbecue and launch fireworks. Both I hate more than anything else.
Juneteenth is primarily celebrated in the deep south, mostly Texas, and is usually just a parade, or a news story to most people. The reason why it took two years to get that information to the slaves was because there was a war, and the Emancipation Proclamation didn't actually free slaves in the South until the South was officially reinstated with the Union.
I like History a lot, and it always fascinates me when I learn something new about American History, but it dosen't really bother me when people don't know it all. Yes, it's important, but people get a little overworked on the idea that history should be more important than business practices, or programing skills. People really don't need History to live their lives from day to day, so I honestly don't blame someone if they don't know a bit of information about The War of 1812 outside of it was fought in 1812. (Primarily in 1814 actually)
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"I've always been a fan of reality by popular vote" - Stephen Colbert (in response to Don McLeroy)
The Declaration of Independence says all men are created equal yet it took amendments to the US Constitution to give basic rights to all men(and women!).
Hate to break this to you, but many argue that the constitution doesn't grant basic right to people (especially woman).
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Listen to my M:tG flavor Podcast: Story Circle! (Newest episode is all about Innistrad previews.)
i'm fairly certain that statistic was heavily biased; asking uneducated people (look at the variance between >50,000 and <50,000 dollars income), residents of the household instead (which may include children), etc.
If it is true, loss of faith in humanity, removing my genitals so my kids don't grow up in this world, etc etc.
there is no inverse correlation between amount of money someone makes and their level of education. There may be a tendency, but I have a BA and work for a nonprofit making less than 50K per year because I do not want to nuzzle up to Satan's genitals for a Christmas bonus...
I'm sorry, fighting against Great Britain was a joke? Really now?
King George III was a horrible tyrant. He expected the American colonists to help foot the bill for the Seven Years War, which included the French and Indian War. The English can die for us on our soil, but heaven help them if they try to take our money.
The Revolutionary War was definitely good for us in the long-run, but in terms of the high ideals spouted to justify it, it was as joke. Hell, we spent just short of 4 years killing ourselves over taxation WITH representation a century later. (By no means the only major element of the Civil War, but there's a reason the Tariff of 1828 was called the Tariff of Abominations, and it's not because people were just mildly annoyed.)
there is no inverse correlation between amount of money someone makes and their level of education. There may be a tendency, but I have a BA and work for a nonprofit making less than 50K per year because I do not want to nuzzle up to Satan's genitals for a Christmas bonus...
There's no correlation at all? I'm not saying there's a relationship but i believe there is a correlation.
And i don't mean to be offensive at all if you took any from it, it was just speculation with what i thought to be facts.
King George III was a horrible tyrant. He expected the American colonists to help foot the bill for the Seven Years War, which included the French and Indian War. The English can die for us on our soil, but heaven help them if they try to take our money.
This catch phrase is so annoying. God forbid we don't want them to take our money! It gets the conversation no where
The Revolutionary War was definitely good for us in the long-run, but in terms of the high ideals spouted to justify it, it was as joke. Hell, we spent just short of 4 years killing ourselves over taxation WITH representation a century later. (By no means the only major element of the Civil War, but there's a reason the Tariff of 1828 was called the Tariff of Abominations, and it's not because people were just mildly annoyed.)
Hulolololololol.
The Declaration of Independence must mean, idk, nothing to you? Bill of Rights? Any of that? I feel that those are very important documents which made America the freest nation on Earth. Nobody's perfect.
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"If you're Havengul problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems and a Lich ain't one." - FSM
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
The Declaration of Independence must mean, idk, nothing to you? Bill of Rights? Any of that? I feel that those are very important documents which made America the freest nation on Earth. Nobody's perfect.
Words in mouth much?
Now why don't you tell me how much I don't care for people that sacrificed their lives?
Besides the US Constitution and Bill of Rights postdating the Revolutionary War by a decade, no, they mean nothing on their own. They do nothing on their own. Same with the Declaration of Independence.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Was this true before the abolition of slavery? Immediately afterwards?
I don't expect anyone to be perfect. I expect people to recognize that what gives these ideas strength and meaning isn't their penning, nor a specific war or date. Rather, they're made up of an ongoing struggle over hundreds of years (in this case). That progress is a laborious and slow process that can only happen when people step back and honestly examine the flaws in their own ideals.
It's too easy to just to accept legends and heroes and fall into complacency, ignoring that these ideals remain challenged even in our own times. There are still fights to be fought.
We are not responsible for the sins of the apathy and narrowmindedness of our ancestors, but we are responsible for our own.
There's no correlation at all? I'm not saying there's a relationship but i believe there is a correlation.
And i don't mean to be offensive at all if you took any from it, it was just speculation with what i thought to be facts.
I did admit there is a tendency toward amount of money made per year and education, but ambition has a lot to do with it too...
You didn't offend. I am a 30yo white male. You would be hard pressed to hurt my feelings. I was merely pointing out that line of thinking could be dangerous is all...
Most educated people have a choice to make once education is reached: Do I want to be a slave? Is it worth sacrificing my values? Those that don't make this choice either value money VERY highly, above all else, or they have no values outside of money.
It shocks me how shocked people are by these figures. The responses to the statistics shows that people have more of an optimistic view on the overall American intellect. Why?
Our country has some very intelligent individuals, but honestly, in large masses, we're pretty stupid...
Words in mouth much?
Now why don't you tell me how much I don't care for people that sacrificed their lives?
Besides the US Constitution and Bill of Rights postdating the Revolutionary War by a decade, no, they mean nothing on their own. They do nothing on their own. Same with the Declaration of Independence.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Was this true before the abolition of slavery? Immediately afterwards?
I don't expect anyone to be perfect. I expect people to recognize that what gives these ideas strength and meaning isn't their penning, nor a specific war or date. Rather, they're made up of an ongoing struggle over hundreds of years (in this case). That progress is a laborious and slow process that can only happen when people step back and honestly examine the flaws in their own ideals.
It's too easy to just to accept legends and heroes and fall into complacency, ignoring that these ideals remain challenged even in our own times. There are still fights to be fought.
We are not responsible for the sins of the apathy and narrowmindedness of our ancestors, but we are responsible for our own.
+100000
Here Here sir.
As a history loving American, I have to agree with everything said here.
Ben Franklin, William Samuel Johnson, George Washington, George Read, James McHenry, Jacob Broom, John Blair, and the more than 30 other signees of the Declaration were long dead before real equal rights would be achieved, and some would argue that real equal rights have NOT YET been achieved even today.
Not to mention that while we killed Germans for what they were doing, we were putting Japanese (and other Asians thought to be) in our own concentration camps. Sure, better than Auschwitz, but that's like saying getting stabbed is better than getting burnt.
I love my country, I love what we HOPED TO BECOME. Our IDEALS were once the stuff of legend! Freedom. For everyone. Follow your dreams. You can make it here!
I think those days are gone.
I fail to see, in 2010, an American Dream being fought for. All we have now is one giant debt being written to pay for another giant debt, and all the moneychangers buying their yachts and escaping.
All we seem to have today is one liar being voted over another liar and both liars trying to make their friends richer in the process.
We might as well put Sponsor stickers all over the capitol building like NASCAR.
Every seat in congress today is bought and paid for, and laws are being written by corporations to their benefit.
Am I alone?
This poll doesn't make me sad. The state of this nation makes me sad.
Am I alone?
Who knows what tomorrow brings.
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Thanks to Xenphire @ Inkfox for the amazing new sig
“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
Words in mouth much?
Now why don't you tell me how much I don't care for people that sacrificed their lives?
Besides the US Constitution and Bill of Rights postdating the Revolutionary War by a decade, no, they mean nothing on their own. They do nothing on their own. Same with the Declaration of Independence.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Was this true before the abolition of slavery? Immediately afterwards?
I don't expect anyone to be perfect. I expect people to recognize that what gives these ideas strength and meaning isn't their penning, nor a specific war or date. Rather, they're made up of an ongoing struggle over hundreds of years (in this case). That progress is a laborious and slow process that can only happen when people step back and honestly examine the flaws in their own ideals.
It's too easy to just to accept legends and heroes and fall into complacency, ignoring that these ideals remain challenged even in our own times. There are still fights to be fought.
We are not responsible for the sins of the apathy and narrowmindedness of our ancestors, but we are responsible for our own.
Many of the most prominent founding fathers were against slavery and they supported women's rights, but they chose the union with an opening for rights to be established for all people later rather than starting more wars. It was the lesser of two evils, and no it didn't have the best of consequences. This was a major point made in my history class.
I'm not accepting anything and "falling into complacency," don't put words in my mouth. If you really want to call the contemporaries narrow-minded and apathetic, you failed history class. It's ludicrous to say those who fought for independence were apathetic and narrow-minded.
And the Revolutionary War was not fought merely over taxation, nor immediately, irrationally, and childishly so. In fact, the people had been petitioning to King George for several years before declaring war. Taxation without representation was only one issue they had with Great Britain.
The years it took to establish the Constitution and the Bill of Rights was actually one of the intentions: some of the founding fathers had the foresight to sit back and plan things out a little better. So the fact that it was a decade later is irrelevant.
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"If you're Havengul problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems and a Lich ain't one." - FSM
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Not to mention that while we killed Germans for what they were doing, we were putting Japanese (and other Asians thought to be) in our own concentration camps. Sure, better than Auschwitz, but that's like saying getting stabbed is better than getting burnt.
That's a disingenuous comparison. We detained Japanese-Americans in WW II out of an overzealous concern for "homeland security"... not with the goal of starving, shooting or gassing them all to death to solve "the Japanese Problem." Deaths of Japanese-Americans in detention centers were sporadic and incidental to the ordeal; Jews were sent to concentration camps in order to be killed.
I love my country, I love what we HOPED TO BECOME. Our IDEALS were once the stuff of legend! Freedom. For everyone. Follow your dreams. You can make it here!
I remember a giddy feeling I once had, that these ideals were still being manifested and expanded upon in our postmodern world. It wasn't all that long ago, either... really, less than two years ago, when for the first time a black man ascended to the presidency.
I think those days are gone.
I fail to see, in 2010, an American Dream being fought for. All we have now is one giant debt being written to pay for another giant debt, and all the moneychangers buying their yachts and escaping.
All we seem to have today is one liar being voted over another liar and both liars trying to make their friends richer in the process.
We might as well put Sponsor stickers all over the capitol building like NASCAR.
Every seat in congress today is bought and paid for, and laws are being written by corporations to their benefit.
Am I alone?
This poll doesn't make me sad. The state of this nation makes me sad.
Am I alone?
Who knows what tomorrow brings.
I find optimism in my own little corner of the world, in my wonderful, inquisitive stepchildren. (My nine year-old already knows geography better than most people twice her age... and possibly better than me.) My wife and I just do our best to instill intelligence, open-mindedness and critical thinking... and I have to believe that it's for the best, that it will somehow matter in the end. I agree that there are many reasons to feel dismal about the state of America today; but pessimism never takes the whole picture into account.
Indeed, who knows what tomorrow brings.
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Love. Forgive. Trust. Be willing to be broken that you may be remade.
Many of the most prominent founding fathers were against slavery and they supported women's rights, but they chose the union with an opening for rights to be established for all people later rather than starting more wars. It was the lesser of two evils, and no it didn't have the best of consequences. This was a major point made in my history class.
I'm not accepting anything and "falling into complacency," don't put words in my mouth. If you really want to call the contemporaries narrow-minded and apathetic, you failed history class. It's ludicrous to say those who fought for independence were apathetic and narrow-minded.
You can start, and we'll see where things go. Otherwise, given the 'hulololololol', I can only assume you enjoy it.
Embellishments of historical figures aside, are you implying that the thoughts and actions of less than .01% of the population supplant those of the other 99.99%?
And the Revolutionary War was not fought merely over taxation, nor immediately, irrationally, and childishly so. In fact, the people had been petitioning to King George for several years before declaring war. Taxation without representation was only one issue they had with Great Britain.
I noted it because the another poster mentioned it, and it's one of the most inaccurately understood, yet widely touted aspects of the revolutionary war. It's typically brought up entirely without historical context, and vilified to a great extant.
The infamous tea tax, for example, wasn't problematic in terms of prices, but for the state-authorized monopoly it granted.
If the issue was reversed, and most people portrayed Americans as motivated entirely by greed, I'd note the hardships faced by local businessmen shut out by the tariffs. That anyone could find themselves in a similar position when the next tariffs come around. That the Parliamentary system was ill-equipped to handle the increasingly diverse and pressing issues of a growing colony across the seas. Etc.
At this point, I'd also like to say:
The negativity I spout (when it's actually intended to be negative) has nothing to do with Anti-American sentiment. Americans can't be the inspiring revolutionaries who overthrew tyranny and oppression without having oppressive tyrants, and painting Great Britain of the 1700s and King George III that way is disingenuous.
You can start, and we'll see where things go. Otherwise, given the 'hulololololol', I can only assume you enjoy it.
Embellishments of historical figures aside, are you implying that the thoughts and actions of less than .01% of the population supplant those of the other 99.99%?
The hulololol was sarcasm mixed with shock. Accepting a fact is not synonymous with becoming complacent.
There's a reason they led the Revolution. You won't gain support of a series of colonies that regard themselves as separate entities if they don't believe in your cause.
I noted it because the another poster mentioned it, and it's one of the most inaccurately understood, yet widely touted aspects of the revolutionary war. It's typically brought up entirely without historical context, and vilified to a great extant.
The infamous tea tax, for example, wasn't problematic in terms of prices, but for the state-authorized monopoly it granted.
So are we agreeing or disagreeing here?
If the issue was reversed, and most people portrayed Americans as motivated entirely by greed, I'd note the hardships faced by local businessmen shut out by the tariffs. That anyone could find themselves in a similar position when the next tariffs come around. That the Parliamentary system was ill-equipped to handle the increasingly diverse and pressing issues of a growing colony across the seas. Etc.
While greed is too negative of a word, I'd say they were motivated by selfishness (or self-interest if that word holds too negative a connotation for you as well). They were becoming their own entity and did not like being told what to do from someone across the ocean who would neither recognize them as anything more than a colony nor give them fair representation in Parliament. Yes, the men of the colonies enjoyed more freedoms than the average British man of the time (primarily because of the ocean that separated the homeland and the colonies, and because the British soldiers were more lax with the colonists for a small bribe), but it was the principle that mattered to them.
At this point, I'd also like to say:
The negativity I spout (when it's actually intended to be negative) has nothing to do with Anti-American sentiment. Americans can't be the inspiring revolutionaries who overthrew tyranny and oppression without having oppressive tyrants, and painting Great Britain of the 1700s and King George III that way is disingenuous.
But he was. Not allowing a colony which is bigger than the homeland to even have any say in what happens to them is oppression. Being told to do so by the orders of one man is tyranny. Again, just because he wasn't starving them to death is beside the point: It was primarily a matter of principle.
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"If you're Havengul problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems and a Lich ain't one." - FSM
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
But he was. Not allowing a colony which is bigger than the homeland to even have any say in what happens to them is oppression. Being told to do so by the orders of one man is tyranny. Again, just because he wasn't starving them to death is beside the point: It was primarily a matter of principle.
I agree. Government without consent of the governed is tyranny, even if it governs without brutality.
But he was. Not allowing a colony which is bigger than the homeland to even have any say in what happens to them is oppression. Being told to do so by the orders of one man is tyranny. Again, just because he wasn't starving them to death is beside the point: It was primarily a matter of principle.
And yet they didn't seem to care about that principle until money was involved.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
And yet they didn't seem to care about that principle until money was involved.
Money is the concept of labor being made into physical reality: it gets you a house, it gets you food, it clothes you, it buys you what you need, and it does the same thing for your family and friends. It is certainly something to protest against when a king from across the ocean decides he's going to do with the reapings of your labor what he wishes without giving you any say in the matter.
I feel you're implying that money is evil. Am I correct?
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"If you're Havengul problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems and a Lich ain't one." - FSM
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Money is the concept of labor being made into physical reality: it gets you a house, it gets you food, it clothes you, it buys you what you need, and it does the same thing for your family and friends. It is certainly something to protest against when a king from across the ocean decides he's going to do with the reapings of your labor what he wishes without giving you any say in the matter.
I feel you're implying that money is evil. Am I correct?
Approach this from another direction. Do you feel that one should be able to force changes or termination to terms of a contract when they are no longer favorable? To reap the rewards of another's investments, and then refuse to furnish one's own side of the agreement?
However unfavorable the situation could become, a colony is a colony. The Americas were never settled under any other pretense. Further, America as we know it today could not have existed without the beneficial aspects of that relationship. Restricting and taxing American trade is another side of the same coin that involved subsidizing the growth of the same economy. One can not accept the latter while becoming indignant about the former.
As far as government went, the parliamentary system was what it was. Despite the by-area voting of members of the House of Commons, members of parliament theoretically represented the interests of the nation at-large. The interests of colonists in America were then represented as a part of the greater empire, within the context of the government as it existed.
Approach this from another direction. Do you feel that one should be able to force changes or termination to terms of a contract when they are no longer favorable? To reap the rewards of another's investments, and then refuse to furnish one's own side of the agreement?
However unfavorable the situation could become, a colony is a colony. The Americas were never settled under any other pretense. Further, America as we know it today could not have existed without the beneficial aspects of that relationship. Restricting and taxing American trade is another side of the same coin that involved subsidizing the growth of the same economy. One can not accept the latter while becoming indignant about the former.
As far as government went, the parliamentary system was what it was. Despite the by-area voting of members of the House of Commons, members of parliament theoretically represented the interests of the nation at-large. The interests of colonists in America were then represented as a part of the greater empire, within the context of the government as it existed.
There were contracts indeed.. with the original settlers.
Parliament was set up the theoretically represent the interests of the nation at large? Well actually it didn't.
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"If you're Havengul problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems and a Lich ain't one." - FSM
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
There were contracts indeed.. with the original settlers.
Parliament was set up the theoretically represent the interests of the nation at large? Well actually it didn't.
The colonies were really looking for autonomy rather than representation. Even if they got representation in Parliament, they would have been outvoted on pretty much all the issues. They just did not have the population to make much of an impact.
It isn't that bad. How many of those people didn't grow up in the USA? How many people don't know their history, but know other things that are actually important to them (like job skills, etc.)? How many people are just that stupid (not that surprising)?
I don't think these are that bad. It could be a lot worse.
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"I don't know why people say a double-edged sword is bad. It's a sword. With two edges." - Kamahl, Pit Fighter
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Neither have I haha. Maybe it's because I'm Caucasian. I take pride in my knowledge of US history but I couldn't tell you what month the Emancipation Proclamation was signed (although I think I could make a pretty good guess now), and I definately could not say when Juneteenth became a national holiday.
hahahahahahahahahahaha
Or is it because people have a strange obsession with shortening names, words, etc. (<----- case in point)?
Thank you, this needed to be said.
Overall, I'm not surprised by the out come of this test. I had a person in my US History class who said that we won our Independence from Spain during an oral quiz. Now this could be an honest mistake. Another classmate of mine said the South won the Civil War....honestly believing it. When we finally taught her that the North won, and got her to memorize she made a bigger ass of herself. She agreed the North won, but apparently she also believed the Confederacy won and the Union lost.
Living in the West makes me sad. My test results are grouped with California.
Thanks to Highlight studios for the sig
If it is true, loss of faith in humanity, removing my genitals so my kids don't grow up in this world, etc etc.
Juneteenth is primarily celebrated in the deep south, mostly Texas, and is usually just a parade, or a news story to most people. The reason why it took two years to get that information to the slaves was because there was a war, and the Emancipation Proclamation didn't actually free slaves in the South until the South was officially reinstated with the Union.
I like History a lot, and it always fascinates me when I learn something new about American History, but it dosen't really bother me when people don't know it all. Yes, it's important, but people get a little overworked on the idea that history should be more important than business practices, or programing skills. People really don't need History to live their lives from day to day, so I honestly don't blame someone if they don't know a bit of information about The War of 1812 outside of it was fought in 1812. (Primarily in 1814 actually)
"I've always been a fan of reality by popular vote" - Stephen Colbert (in response to Don McLeroy)
GPolukranos, Kill ALL the Things!G
Hate to break this to you, but many argue that the constitution doesn't grant basic right to people (especially woman).
Winner of the 2nd Design Survivor Contest
Creator of the Vorthos Card Contest
Winner of 12th and the 18th Short Story Contests
Creator of the Vs. Tournament.
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there is no inverse correlation between amount of money someone makes and their level of education. There may be a tendency, but I have a BA and work for a nonprofit making less than 50K per year because I do not want to nuzzle up to Satan's genitals for a Christmas bonus...
King George III was a horrible tyrant. He expected the American colonists to help foot the bill for the Seven Years War, which included the French and Indian War. The English can die for us on our soil, but heaven help them if they try to take our money.
The Revolutionary War was definitely good for us in the long-run, but in terms of the high ideals spouted to justify it, it was as joke. Hell, we spent just short of 4 years killing ourselves over taxation WITH representation a century later. (By no means the only major element of the Civil War, but there's a reason the Tariff of 1828 was called the Tariff of Abominations, and it's not because people were just mildly annoyed.)
There's no correlation at all? I'm not saying there's a relationship but i believe there is a correlation.
And i don't mean to be offensive at all if you took any from it, it was just speculation with what i thought to be facts.
This catch phrase is so annoying. God forbid we don't want them to take our money! It gets the conversation no where
Hulolololololol.
The Declaration of Independence must mean, idk, nothing to you? Bill of Rights? Any of that? I feel that those are very important documents which made America the freest nation on Earth. Nobody's perfect.
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Ashcoat Bear of Limited
Words in mouth much?
Now why don't you tell me how much I don't care for people that sacrificed their lives?
Besides the US Constitution and Bill of Rights postdating the Revolutionary War by a decade, no, they mean nothing on their own. They do nothing on their own. Same with the Declaration of Independence.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Was this true before the abolition of slavery? Immediately afterwards?
I don't expect anyone to be perfect. I expect people to recognize that what gives these ideas strength and meaning isn't their penning, nor a specific war or date. Rather, they're made up of an ongoing struggle over hundreds of years (in this case). That progress is a laborious and slow process that can only happen when people step back and honestly examine the flaws in their own ideals.
It's too easy to just to accept legends and heroes and fall into complacency, ignoring that these ideals remain challenged even in our own times. There are still fights to be fought.
We are not responsible for the sins of the apathy and narrowmindedness of our ancestors, but we are responsible for our own.
I did admit there is a tendency toward amount of money made per year and education, but ambition has a lot to do with it too...
You didn't offend. I am a 30yo white male. You would be hard pressed to hurt my feelings. I was merely pointing out that line of thinking could be dangerous is all...
Most educated people have a choice to make once education is reached: Do I want to be a slave? Is it worth sacrificing my values? Those that don't make this choice either value money VERY highly, above all else, or they have no values outside of money.
Our country has some very intelligent individuals, but honestly, in large masses, we're pretty stupid...
I know. Its the letter of the law vs the spirit of the law.
@the ERA: Its something that needs to happen but might take a long while to really affect anything. Like the civil rights and handicapped people laws.
Here Here sir.
As a history loving American, I have to agree with everything said here.
Ben Franklin, William Samuel Johnson, George Washington, George Read, James McHenry, Jacob Broom, John Blair, and the more than 30 other signees of the Declaration were long dead before real equal rights would be achieved, and some would argue that real equal rights have NOT YET been achieved even today.
Not to mention that while we killed Germans for what they were doing, we were putting Japanese (and other Asians thought to be) in our own concentration camps. Sure, better than Auschwitz, but that's like saying getting stabbed is better than getting burnt.
I love my country, I love what we HOPED TO BECOME. Our IDEALS were once the stuff of legend! Freedom. For everyone. Follow your dreams. You can make it here!
I think those days are gone.
I fail to see, in 2010, an American Dream being fought for. All we have now is one giant debt being written to pay for another giant debt, and all the moneychangers buying their yachts and escaping.
All we seem to have today is one liar being voted over another liar and both liars trying to make their friends richer in the process.
We might as well put Sponsor stickers all over the capitol building like NASCAR.
Every seat in congress today is bought and paid for, and laws are being written by corporations to their benefit.
Am I alone?
This poll doesn't make me sad. The state of this nation makes me sad.
Am I alone?
Who knows what tomorrow brings.
Thanks to Xenphire @ Inkfox for the amazing new sig
“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
Many of the most prominent founding fathers were against slavery and they supported women's rights, but they chose the union with an opening for rights to be established for all people later rather than starting more wars. It was the lesser of two evils, and no it didn't have the best of consequences. This was a major point made in my history class.
I'm not accepting anything and "falling into complacency," don't put words in my mouth. If you really want to call the contemporaries narrow-minded and apathetic, you failed history class. It's ludicrous to say those who fought for independence were apathetic and narrow-minded.
And the Revolutionary War was not fought merely over taxation, nor immediately, irrationally, and childishly so. In fact, the people had been petitioning to King George for several years before declaring war. Taxation without representation was only one issue they had with Great Britain.
The years it took to establish the Constitution and the Bill of Rights was actually one of the intentions: some of the founding fathers had the foresight to sit back and plan things out a little better. So the fact that it was a decade later is irrelevant.
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Ashcoat Bear of Limited
That's a disingenuous comparison. We detained Japanese-Americans in WW II out of an overzealous concern for "homeland security"... not with the goal of starving, shooting or gassing them all to death to solve "the Japanese Problem." Deaths of Japanese-Americans in detention centers were sporadic and incidental to the ordeal; Jews were sent to concentration camps in order to be killed.
I remember a giddy feeling I once had, that these ideals were still being manifested and expanded upon in our postmodern world. It wasn't all that long ago, either... really, less than two years ago, when for the first time a black man ascended to the presidency.
I find optimism in my own little corner of the world, in my wonderful, inquisitive stepchildren. (My nine year-old already knows geography better than most people twice her age... and possibly better than me.) My wife and I just do our best to instill intelligence, open-mindedness and critical thinking... and I have to believe that it's for the best, that it will somehow matter in the end. I agree that there are many reasons to feel dismal about the state of America today; but pessimism never takes the whole picture into account.
Indeed, who knows what tomorrow brings.
You can start, and we'll see where things go. Otherwise, given the 'hulololololol', I can only assume you enjoy it.
Embellishments of historical figures aside, are you implying that the thoughts and actions of less than .01% of the population supplant those of the other 99.99%?
I noted it because the another poster mentioned it, and it's one of the most inaccurately understood, yet widely touted aspects of the revolutionary war. It's typically brought up entirely without historical context, and vilified to a great extant.
The infamous tea tax, for example, wasn't problematic in terms of prices, but for the state-authorized monopoly it granted.
If the issue was reversed, and most people portrayed Americans as motivated entirely by greed, I'd note the hardships faced by local businessmen shut out by the tariffs. That anyone could find themselves in a similar position when the next tariffs come around. That the Parliamentary system was ill-equipped to handle the increasingly diverse and pressing issues of a growing colony across the seas. Etc.
At this point, I'd also like to say:
The negativity I spout (when it's actually intended to be negative) has nothing to do with Anti-American sentiment. Americans can't be the inspiring revolutionaries who overthrew tyranny and oppression without having oppressive tyrants, and painting Great Britain of the 1700s and King George III that way is disingenuous.
The hulololol was sarcasm mixed with shock. Accepting a fact is not synonymous with becoming complacent.
There's a reason they led the Revolution. You won't gain support of a series of colonies that regard themselves as separate entities if they don't believe in your cause.
So are we agreeing or disagreeing here?
While greed is too negative of a word, I'd say they were motivated by selfishness (or self-interest if that word holds too negative a connotation for you as well). They were becoming their own entity and did not like being told what to do from someone across the ocean who would neither recognize them as anything more than a colony nor give them fair representation in Parliament. Yes, the men of the colonies enjoyed more freedoms than the average British man of the time (primarily because of the ocean that separated the homeland and the colonies, and because the British soldiers were more lax with the colonists for a small bribe), but it was the principle that mattered to them.
But he was. Not allowing a colony which is bigger than the homeland to even have any say in what happens to them is oppression. Being told to do so by the orders of one man is tyranny. Again, just because he wasn't starving them to death is beside the point: It was primarily a matter of principle.
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Ashcoat Bear of Limited
I agree. Government without consent of the governed is tyranny, even if it governs without brutality.
And yet they didn't seem to care about that principle until money was involved.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Money is the concept of labor being made into physical reality: it gets you a house, it gets you food, it clothes you, it buys you what you need, and it does the same thing for your family and friends. It is certainly something to protest against when a king from across the ocean decides he's going to do with the reapings of your labor what he wishes without giving you any say in the matter.
I feel you're implying that money is evil. Am I correct?
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Ashcoat Bear of Limited
Approach this from another direction. Do you feel that one should be able to force changes or termination to terms of a contract when they are no longer favorable? To reap the rewards of another's investments, and then refuse to furnish one's own side of the agreement?
However unfavorable the situation could become, a colony is a colony. The Americas were never settled under any other pretense. Further, America as we know it today could not have existed without the beneficial aspects of that relationship. Restricting and taxing American trade is another side of the same coin that involved subsidizing the growth of the same economy. One can not accept the latter while becoming indignant about the former.
As far as government went, the parliamentary system was what it was. Despite the by-area voting of members of the House of Commons, members of parliament theoretically represented the interests of the nation at-large. The interests of colonists in America were then represented as a part of the greater empire, within the context of the government as it existed.
There were contracts indeed.. with the original settlers.
Parliament was set up the theoretically represent the interests of the nation at large? Well actually it didn't.
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Ashcoat Bear of Limited
The colonies were really looking for autonomy rather than representation. Even if they got representation in Parliament, they would have been outvoted on pretty much all the issues. They just did not have the population to make much of an impact.
I don't think these are that bad. It could be a lot worse.