While I am politically left in the U.S., and endorse the actions and direction the current president has taken in health care reform and diplomacy, I am personally in the "premature at best" camp that views this award as a political endorsement rather than a recognition of achievement.
The Lede blog on the New York Times website explains their reasoning behind this years award, which does include the "This was a slow year for peacemakers" argument. The competition for this Nobel wasn't terribly fierce, according to their summary.
Edit: At least it isn't as perplexing as Arafat or Kissinger.
US diplomats are actually talking to nations like Iran, Burma, and North Korea. That's quite a different attitude then the Bush administration's stance of "No talking to nations we think are evil."
Now does this deserve a Nobel? I don't really think so. If this diplomacy actually leads to substantial changes then maybe I'd give Obama the award. For now I'll give him props for restoring the US to a good diplomatic image but again I don't think a restoration of image is Nobel-worthy.
Well, I was more referring to a) opinions of other countries changing, apart from 'oh we worship this new different president effusive-effusive', and also b) countries that actually have some voice in global affairs, i.e. China & Russia & Europe.
My point was that the 'International Climate' really hasn't changed all that much since Bush left. The same problems exist and his 'new approach' hasn't been much more than Anti-American apology tours. What do we have to show for this new approach?
Are formerly inflexible countries/leaders & intractable issues just melting away under the power of his charisma and charming words? Not that I can tell.
I guess it's great we're talking to former Axis-members. Frankly, wen we actually see some difference in behavior, I'll actually give a ****.
My point is that for all the "reaching out of an unclinched fist", and our various concessions to other major world powers on logjam issues, we've gotten very little for our efforts in regard to their actions. Opinions & talk is just that, opinions & talk. Show me some results.
While I can agree it might be a bit premature for him to get this award, Seeing how long it took Carter to get his, everyone should understand a few things about the award.
1 : It doesn't matter how long he was into his presidency. Being president or not has nothing to do with the award
2 : From the wiki entry on the NPP
Unlike the other Nobel Prizes, which recognize completed scientific or literary accomplishment, the Nobel Peace Prize may be awarded to persons or organizations that are in the process of resolving a conflict or creating peace.
That means even though he was nominated 2 weeks into his presidency, his actions between then and now have been taken into consideration. And frankly he's always shown to be a diplomat from the start (remember when he visited other countries during his campaign?). He was very eager to show he wanted to resume talks with the world, rather than always send the army like his predecessor.
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It is always easy to be tolerant and understanding...Until someone presents an opinion completely opposite to your own.
I posted this in the "Debate" section, but it seems that was the incorrect section. It is not the same one I posted in the "Debate" section, had to do some selective editing for it to make it over here. Hope the point still gets across.
It was Titled: Cont. the same murderous polices Bush implemented gets you a Nobel Peace Prize
As if you needed more proof that the Nobel Peace Prize is a complete joke, it was just awarded to Barack Obama. That’s right, the prestigious medal, once famously bestowed upon Yasser Arafat, has been given Obama.
I guess we’re all just supposed to ignore the fact that this peace prize winner is still waging the two wars that made George Bush the mortal enemy of the “enlightened” world.
Taking a momentary detour into reality, we can see it becoming increasingly obvious that the Nobel Prize has little to do with peace, and more to do with rewarding those who bring the U.S. down to its “proper” place in the world.
Here are some past recipients:
1994 - Yasser Arafat - Nobody loves peace like a terrorist, right?
2002- Jimmy Carter - Allegedly, this was about his decades spent resolving conflicts peacefully. Most believe that it was really awarded for his constant bad-mouthing of Israel and the Bush administration.
2004 - Wangari Maathi - Maathi is an African AIDS worker who famously claimed that western (read U.S.) scientists had invented the deadly virus to depopulate Africa. She later tried to deny that she’d ever made the statements.
2005 - The International Atomic Energy Agency - The claim that this award was given for the IAEA’s attempts to “stop the spread of nuclear weapons” is preposterous. Make no mistake; this was given solely because Bush never found his Weapons of Mass Destruction.
2007 - The Intergovernmental Panel On Climate Change - This is Al Gore’s baby. America uses too much of everything, kids. Remember how wasteful you are, how you’re ruining the planet, and how George Bush is evil.
2009 - Barack Obama - Barry was nominated for the award after serving a grueling 11 days as president. 9 months later, he’s been given the nod. His accomplishments? Costing America 2.8 million jobs, devaluing its currency to the point where the world wants to ditch it, apologizing for the evils of the US every time he leaves its borders, and appeasing dictators and thugs the world over.
It was just a few weeks ago that Obama ordered a dozen bunker-buster bombs for a potential attack on Iran. (Bunker-Busters are the most devastating weapons available without going nuclear.). Here is quick snip it of the article:
Quote: All this urgency indicates that the Obama administration has been preparing military muscle to back up the international condemnation of Iran’s concealed nuclear bomb program, its sanctions threat and his willingness to join the negotiations with Iran opening on Oct. 1 in Geneva. Tehran may have to take into account a possible one-time surgical strike against its underground enrichment facility as a warning shot should its defiance continue. In particular, the world powers this week demanded that Iran open up all its nuclear facilities and programs to full and immediate international inspection. Failure to do so could bring forth further US military action.
Unbelievable. They've given the world's highest honor to a marketing campaign. He's doing everything that Bush did - Gitmo, Two Wars, Wiretaps, reinstated the Patriot Act!!!!!! - but he's so much nicer about it! And he's willing to get France involved!
Whether our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan is just or unjust, our President is the military leader in both wars. He's ordering people to kill other people. I thought as a democrat, the easy answer to all of Bush's wrongs was just to pull back our troops, yet Obama sends more troops, with no military end in sight. And now wants to do more bombings. What gives?
So, now that the greatest president who ever took office in the history of the United States is finally recognized for all his hard work (read 11 days into office he was nominated), we can add him to long list of the other deserving winners.
Remind me again why the Nobel Peace Prize is still around? I figured after Yasser won it, the program would have been dissolved, how wrong I was.
Fake Edit: To discover how you too can win the Peace prize, click and read up on the link below. I suggest trying to achieve the means through #3, seems the easiest. http://reason.com/archives/2007/10/1...el-peace-prize
To be honest, I do not feel that I deserve to be in the company of so many of the transformative figures who've been honored by this prize -- men and women who've inspired me and inspired the entire world through their courageous pursuit of peace.
Just because he says he doesn't think he deserves it doesn't mean he doesn't think he deserves it.
EDIT: That was probably confusing. What I mean is, just because he says something doesn't mean he actually means it.
I don't support child molesters. I've said it now do you want to claim I actually do support child molesters? Give me a break.
Until Obama comes out and says he thinks he deserves the award then we go with what he's actually said. Otherwise you're reading minds and/or making assumptions.
Ssj makes some good points. He's basically carrying out Bush's policies all over again, how can he be thought of as a man who is working for peace? Because he's black and speaks softly?
Who the hell else would you give it to this year though?
I want someone to come up with another globally relevant individual who has worked in the peace process this year or who has had a long, distinguished, and continuing career working in it.
I agree that he hasn't done nearly as much for it as many who have earned it (which he says himself), but give him a bit of a break. He didn't nominate himself.
I do find it odd to award it to him in spite of the ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan though and his lack of progress in some of his agendas on the domestic front.
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"But then are we most in order when we are most out of order."-Jack Cade
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
I don't support child molesters. I've said it now do you want to claim I actually do support child molesters? Give me a break.
Until Obama comes out and says he thinks he deserves the award then we go with what he's actually said. Otherwise you're reading minds and/or making assumptions.
The difference being: Obama is a politician. They have a habit of saying whatever they think will make them look good and earn them more votes/higher approval ratings, their actual thoughts and beliefs be damned. I'm not saying I believe that he thinks he deserves it, but I wouldn't be suprised.
According to Nobel's will, the Peace Prize should be awarded "to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."
I don't know, he did a really good job at making everyone hate America less. Sounds like "done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations" to me.
Admittedly, it was easier to do that after Bush made everyone hate the US, but he did do it.
I'm about as strong a Obama support as you can be and I think this award is ridiculous.
I'm hopeful that Obama WILL be deserving of the prize by the end of his first term, but giving it to him now is like presenting the Stanley Cup to the team with the best Preseason record.
Morgan Tsvangirai, the Prime Minister of Zimbabwe is far more deserving on a Nobel Peace Prize than Obama. Then again, the award means absolutely nothing now to me since they gave it to a terrorist (Yasser Arafat).
The Obama Nobel prize is a publicity stunt, much like how the Al Gore one was. I'm sorry, but climate change wasn't and still isn't something that qualifies as something that should qualify for any sort of peace prize, as they didn't do anything.
And as it has been said before, applications for this years Nobel Peace Prize were due on February 1st, 2 weeks after Obama was inaugurated. So Obama literally won this award based on his election ads and rhetoric.
But I don't blame Obama for accepting this award. After all, he's going to take the handout given to him (all 1.4 million dollars of it).
I was happy he got elected, I voted for him, but this is just a publicity stunt. To be honest, it looked like he was just as confused as the rest of us.
As to everyone talking about "He's still at war! Just like Bush!", they obviously don't understand the situation over there, and how starting the process to remove troops is infinitely different than going over there to begin with, not to mention the REASONS why we went over there... :\
[color=black]
[COLOR=black]Not to people who are blind.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]To be frank, it is very shocking how badly informed so many posters appear in regard to the achievements of their own country's president. And how full of ill will and hatred towards that man.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]It would be quite a joke that I, one of[/COLOR]
would tell you what your own president achieved and brought on its way not only in favor of your country's reputation but for future baselines of international politics, so I won't. But please start to inform yourselves instead of spitting out clouds of very ungrateful badmouthing.
I don't know, if that man deserves that prize so early on, but I do know he does not deserve the way you treat him.
It was joke, sir. Dont get your panties in a bunch.
I listed his achievements already. Major ones being: stopped the global recession, however not single-handedly and, in fact, most of the heavy lifting was not done by him.
Um... 'considering' more troops in Afghanistan.
Making Europe or the World all 'happy-feely' which doesn't translate to anything substantial, in terms of foreign policy. However I do give him credit for these engaging talks with our enemies.
What else...? Oh he's black.
Really.. there are plenty of people more deserving. I can see Obama winning a Peace Prize. But right now it's certainly premature.[/color]
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:facepalm:Wow. I really don't think there is any logical reason for this event to take place. I mean, he's not a bad guy, but the peace prize? Now? Again, I guess it's not a catastrophe that this happened, but it's just so incredibly stupid.
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Wow, I mean... I'm all for Obama but damn I'm against this. Apparently being president and not being Bush gets you the NPP. I wish they'd waited until the end of his first term or the beginning of his possible second...
To be frank, it is very shocking how badly informed so many posters appear in regard to the achievements of their own country's president. And how full of ill will and hatred towards that man.
It would be quite a joke that I, one of
Yes it is shocking how badly informed posters are of this man. I am sorry but he has done nothing on such a scale that deserves a noble peace prize. More so at this point in the game.
sorry he hasn't achieved anything. everything is still going down except for the market but how strong this rally is i don't know yet. See we haven't even begun to get hit by all the spending that this man has done.
unemployement is at 9.8%.
Yes it is is ill will and hatred to say that a man who hasn't done anything to earn it gets it (i think your definition of ill will and hatred don't match anyone elses).
yes this was quite the joke.
this is like al gore. made a movie filled with mis-information and basic psudo-science mumbo jumbo to the point that the court in england said it could not be shown for educational purposes. that many of the scientist that showed up went ummm that isn't right. yet he still won a prize.
sorry but the NBP committee has turned this award into a laughing joke.
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The Lede blog on the New York Times website explains their reasoning behind this years award, which does include the "This was a slow year for peacemakers" argument. The competition for this Nobel wasn't terribly fierce, according to their summary.
Edit: At least it isn't as perplexing as Arafat or Kissinger.
US diplomats are actually talking to nations like Iran, Burma, and North Korea. That's quite a different attitude then the Bush administration's stance of "No talking to nations we think are evil."
Now does this deserve a Nobel? I don't really think so. If this diplomacy actually leads to substantial changes then maybe I'd give Obama the award. For now I'll give him props for restoring the US to a good diplomatic image but again I don't think a restoration of image is Nobel-worthy.
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Do the other categories of the Nobel prize have any integrity left?
I still think Economics is pretty valid.
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Meanwhile, Mr Karzai is an incompetent moron, another nuclear facility... is discovered in Iran, and no results from Israel-Palestine talks.
Seriously.. worst Nobel Prize since Al Gore.
Well, I was more referring to a) opinions of other countries changing, apart from 'oh we worship this new different president effusive-effusive', and also b) countries that actually have some voice in global affairs, i.e. China & Russia & Europe.
My point was that the 'International Climate' really hasn't changed all that much since Bush left. The same problems exist and his 'new approach' hasn't been much more than Anti-American apology tours. What do we have to show for this new approach?
Are formerly inflexible countries/leaders & intractable issues just melting away under the power of his charisma and charming words? Not that I can tell.
I guess it's great we're talking to former Axis-members. Frankly, wen we actually see some difference in behavior, I'll actually give a ****.
My point is that for all the "reaching out of an unclinched fist", and our various concessions to other major world powers on logjam issues, we've gotten very little for our efforts in regard to their actions. Opinions & talk is just that, opinions & talk. Show me some results.
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The guys they gave the Prize to in '07 didn't see the meltdown coming and actually endorsed the kinds of economic activity that led to it.
1 : It doesn't matter how long he was into his presidency. Being president or not has nothing to do with the award
2 : From the wiki entry on the NPP
That means even though he was nominated 2 weeks into his presidency, his actions between then and now have been taken into consideration. And frankly he's always shown to be a diplomat from the start (remember when he visited other countries during his campaign?). He was very eager to show he wanted to resume talks with the world, rather than always send the army like his predecessor.
Science is always good; the achievements recognized by the latest batch of Chem/Physics/etc. prizes are awesome.
Very Well Then I Contradict Myself.
It was Titled: Cont. the same murderous polices Bush implemented gets you a Nobel Peace Prize
does this award really mean anything at this point? i would say no.
what is funny is this guy thinks he deserves it.
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His own words.
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
EDIT: That was probably confusing. What I mean is, just because he says something doesn't mean he actually means it.
I don't support child molesters. I've said it now do you want to claim I actually do support child molesters? Give me a break.
Until Obama comes out and says he thinks he deserves the award then we go with what he's actually said. Otherwise you're reading minds and/or making assumptions.
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
I want someone to come up with another globally relevant individual who has worked in the peace process this year or who has had a long, distinguished, and continuing career working in it.
I agree that he hasn't done nearly as much for it as many who have earned it (which he says himself), but give him a bit of a break. He didn't nominate himself.
I do find it odd to award it to him in spite of the ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan though and his lack of progress in some of his agendas on the domestic front.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
The difference being: Obama is a politician. They have a habit of saying whatever they think will make them look good and earn them more votes/higher approval ratings, their actual thoughts and beliefs be damned. I'm not saying I believe that he thinks he deserves it, but I wouldn't be suprised.
I don't know, he did a really good job at making everyone hate America less. Sounds like "done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations" to me.
Admittedly, it was easier to do that after Bush made everyone hate the US, but he did do it.
I'm hopeful that Obama WILL be deserving of the prize by the end of his first term, but giving it to him now is like presenting the Stanley Cup to the team with the best Preseason record.
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The Obama Nobel prize is a publicity stunt, much like how the Al Gore one was. I'm sorry, but climate change wasn't and still isn't something that qualifies as something that should qualify for any sort of peace prize, as they didn't do anything.
And as it has been said before, applications for this years Nobel Peace Prize were due on February 1st, 2 weeks after Obama was inaugurated. So Obama literally won this award based on his election ads and rhetoric.
But I don't blame Obama for accepting this award. After all, he's going to take the handout given to him (all 1.4 million dollars of it).
+1.
I was happy he got elected, I voted for him, but this is just a publicity stunt. To be honest, it looked like he was just as confused as the rest of us.
As to everyone talking about "He's still at war! Just like Bush!", they obviously don't understand the situation over there, and how starting the process to remove troops is infinitely different than going over there to begin with, not to mention the REASONS why we went over there... :\
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It was joke, sir. Dont get your panties in a bunch.
I listed his achievements already. Major ones being: stopped the global recession, however not single-handedly and, in fact, most of the heavy lifting was not done by him.
Um... 'considering' more troops in Afghanistan.
Making Europe or the World all 'happy-feely' which doesn't translate to anything substantial, in terms of foreign policy. However I do give him credit for these engaging talks with our enemies.
What else...? Oh he's black.
Really.. there are plenty of people more deserving. I can see Obama winning a Peace Prize. But right now it's certainly premature.[/color]
I guess it's not a catastrophe that this happened, but it's just so incredibly stupid.
Yes it is shocking how badly informed posters are of this man. I am sorry but he has done nothing on such a scale that deserves a noble peace prize. More so at this point in the game.
sorry he hasn't achieved anything. everything is still going down except for the market but how strong this rally is i don't know yet. See we haven't even begun to get hit by all the spending that this man has done.
unemployement is at 9.8%.
Yes it is is ill will and hatred to say that a man who hasn't done anything to earn it gets it (i think your definition of ill will and hatred don't match anyone elses).
yes this was quite the joke.
this is like al gore. made a movie filled with mis-information and basic psudo-science mumbo jumbo to the point that the court in england said it could not be shown for educational purposes. that many of the scientist that showed up went ummm that isn't right. yet he still won a prize.
sorry but the NBP committee has turned this award into a laughing joke.
Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around.
Thanks to Nex3 for the avatar visit ye old sig and avatar forum