`(a) Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person, using electronic means to support severe, repeated, and hostile behavior, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
how exactly is this enforcable or legal? technically speaking, anything can be deemed offensive, so this bill ends up being so broad as to be unenforcable.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
Media is not making me steal. But in a way is like the story of the very hot girl with the short skirt teasing the old sick guy with a history of rape.
I think it pretty clearly states what it takes in order for someone to break the law and is not merely saying offensive stuff.
Read: "with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person"
but the question then becomes, how can they figure intent just by seeing a post on the internet? there is plausible deniability with things posted online.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
but the question then becomes, how can they figure intent just by seeing a post on the internet? there is plausible deniability with things posted online.
as well as the possibilities of user/handles being taken or the claim they were stolen and used by some one else...let alone how do you prove how the end user is on the offending side?
Tho there was a case of this already upheld here in los angeles CA....I forget what state but this girls mom went on myspace to get back at this exfriend of her daughters who did some mean things to her. She joined myspace as a boy her age befriended the girl and started "internet dating" her and then broke up with her over myspace saying she should kill her self....which she did...the local police did nothing about it but the LAPD did seeing how the myspace servers are located in LA they have jurisdiction...the mother has been arrested and found guilty on some charges which do not include murder....
I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
What's pretty sad is that they're working their hardest to put a stop to "cyberbullying" something that's essentially pretty easy to avoid(what with all those ignore buttons most chats and message boards have) yet they still haven't really gotten out of their way to stop real life bullying. The kind of bullying that screws with kids heads from the time they're 5 to the time they're 20 and basically sets them up for the rest of their lives to be timid, unquestioning worker bees and set right up perfectly to fall right into the caste system set out before them. Of course the "bullys" in question grow up to be the cops that make/break the rules and continue to get away with essentially anything they want because throughout their lives they've always learned that aggression and fear tactics get them the results they want.
Ehhhh, life is such a gross and sad lil game isn't it. But yeah, as far as laws go, it's totally ridiculous and difficult to really come to a conclusive understanding of it's exact intent. So I'm sure it'll get passed without question.
It's because bullying is "accepted" as part of "growing up," meanwhile things such as questioning authority(when channeled properly) or other truly useful concepts are stifled whilst this is left to grow. Also, year-to-year bullying is often left to the concept of "it happened last year, so they might've grown up, so therefore past history must be ignored." A blanket forgiveness policy that ignores past antisocial behavior is sickening. Often the ones that are aimed to be "cured" are the victims of bullying (the symptoms) than the disease.
I disagree though, many of these "cops" help to lead to high turn over rates in many companies. Basically being a jerk costs companies turn over, new training fees, lost productivity, and a plethora of rather obvious mechanics.
The thing with "ignoring" is that there's a lot more to the story that makes it complicated in "reality" and cyberspace. "Most of the time," it's not. But to be honest, some of these "bullying" insodents are not isolated. Especially with the weirder people of our societies gaining anonomity to do things they normally could not get away with or rather think they could.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
The government has nothing on MTGS rules and mods.
Really, though, until our generation grows into every nook and cranny of the law-making process, the government should really stay out of the internet. This is one series of tubes they just don't understand.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
#define ALWAYS SOMETIMES
#define NEVER RARELY
#define ALL MANY
-=GIVE US SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN=-
I'm nerd enough to link my WoW Armory Though I'll put it in a small font.
I actual agree with this cyberbullying law. I'm also wondering if some of the you guys actually know about the case. I mean a previous poster already said that the person posed as a boy and so gained the girl's trust first. I guess what I'm saying is that your post about using ignore or whatever makes no sense, because the person gained her trust first.
Also, I think that most of the time that when bullying is found out something is done about it. The fact is that most bullying goes unreported and doesn't result in a death. I guarantee you that if more bullying resolved in deaths or bodily harm than you would see a huge amount of activism against bullying. I also find the comment about cops a bit of a generalization and it seems to me that you might have had some problems with bullying when you were younger.
The government has nothing on MTGS rules and mods.
Really, though, until our generation grows into every nook and cranny of the law-making process, the government should really stay out of the internet. This is one series of tubes they just don't understand.
see, the thing is, that's the feeling I'm getting from the world governments concerning the Internet. they don't understand it, so they'll hamstring and homogenize it wherever possible. see France's HADOPI law for a severe example.
what I'm really worried about is the wording of the bill. if it had more of a clear, precise wording of what cyberbullying *is* other than "oh no he hurt my feelings on the internet :<<<<" then it probably wouldn't be as bad. as it reads right now though, it's like a water-tester for full blown censorship.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
Yeah, same here. I mean I think it would be a good idea if they could get the wording down right and it wasn't really ambiguous. But I would hate it if it were ill conceived and used to censor people since I already think things are censored enough as is. I just meant that in this case I could see a law being applicable because seriously you're in your 40s and you're making up fake myspace accounts to find out what someone said about your daughter? What're we 14 years old again? Honestly, why doesn't a 50 year old man at work just pass a note to a coworker saying circle Yes/No if you like me.
ok serously how do they expect to enforce this? an whaith what agency?
this sounds more like ana excuse for the FEDGOVEto make a power grab an restrict free speach an is probably a misdirection to divert your attention from something bigger.
you can't log IP's as burden of proof you can spoof em an alter them.
ok serously how do they expect to enforce this? an whaith what agency?
this sounds more like ana excuse for the FEDGOVEto make a power grab an restrict free speach an is probably a misdirection to divert your attention from something bigger.
you can't log IP's as burden of proof you can spoof em an alter them.
Most of the people that do this are stupid and they never cover their tracks. Most of the time the purpetrators brag or are easily traceable. This is why the police during investigations will seize computers to double check the IP addresses.
We have an adversarial justice system that has to apply liturgical law to abstract realities. This is why new laws are created, to give a framework upon which the justice system can work.
What this gives are better penalties and options for law enforcement and parents of children that are bullied in such a manner. No one expects the United States government to police the internet in such a manner, they have issues from Russia and China hacking our power grids and such than these childish things.
Let's also be honest, employers these days look at internet footprints in the computer through simple search engines. If a website pops up that says an entire site is dedicated to humiliating you, it's not going to be very good for your first impression. The same goes for children of bullied individuals. A net savvy individual that researches the parents and finds such "digital evidence" can bring it to bear. So it becomes a generational issue.
Then there is the issue of people utilizing zombie server attacks on personal home computers and other whacky retalliation episodes. We really don't need vigilantism on the net. It might work for strangers on a forum like this, however it doesn't work well in personal settings.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
How can something one says over the internet be proven to cause someone else to kill themselves? Hell, the sentiment "kill yourself" is rampant on less-strict forums. It's obviously used hyperbolically and sarcastically to mean "you are unbelievably wrong/stupid," but is it really on the person who said that if their target commits suicide?
If I'm walking down the street and someone accidentally bumps into me and I say "hey, watch it, moron!" and they really take that to heart and kill themselves, does it make any sense at all that I should be liable?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
#define ALWAYS SOMETIMES
#define NEVER RARELY
#define ALL MANY
-=GIVE US SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN=-
I'm nerd enough to link my WoW Armory Though I'll put it in a small font.
Most of the people that do this are stupid and they never cover their tracks. Most of the time the purpetrators brag or are easily traceable. This is why the police during investigations will seize computers to double check the IP addresses.
Exactly. I could be cyberbullying or what ever and not get caught. Maybe that is what I should do to release the pent up anger when I was really bullied in school.
When you complain how can this be enforced, you are missing the whole point of courts. If they can find where you live, they can bring you to court and try you of this charge. Although I admit they would have a pretty easy time defending themselves by claiming what they said had different meaning, but still its a step forward to contain the world's idiots.
There will likely be difficulty with international enforcement, but at least in the USA there is a procedure to follow. Don't get me wrong, I am not dissing other countries. I am just familiar with the USA's system of rule.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep - not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
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the main meat of the bill:
how exactly is this enforcable or legal? technically speaking, anything can be deemed offensive, so this bill ends up being so broad as to be unenforcable.
Read: "with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person"
but the question then becomes, how can they figure intent just by seeing a post on the internet? there is plausible deniability with things posted online.
as well as the possibilities of user/handles being taken or the claim they were stolen and used by some one else...let alone how do you prove how the end user is on the offending side?
Tho there was a case of this already upheld here in los angeles CA....I forget what state but this girls mom went on myspace to get back at this exfriend of her daughters who did some mean things to her. She joined myspace as a boy her age befriended the girl and started "internet dating" her and then broke up with her over myspace saying she should kill her self....which she did...the local police did nothing about it but the LAPD did seeing how the myspace servers are located in LA they have jurisdiction...the mother has been arrested and found guilty on some charges which do not include murder....
Sources:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27958907
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21844203/
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
Ehhhh, life is such a gross and sad lil game isn't it. But yeah, as far as laws go, it's totally ridiculous and difficult to really come to a conclusive understanding of it's exact intent. So I'm sure it'll get passed without question.
I disagree though, many of these "cops" help to lead to high turn over rates in many companies. Basically being a jerk costs companies turn over, new training fees, lost productivity, and a plethora of rather obvious mechanics.
The thing with "ignoring" is that there's a lot more to the story that makes it complicated in "reality" and cyberspace. "Most of the time," it's not. But to be honest, some of these "bullying" insodents are not isolated. Especially with the weirder people of our societies gaining anonomity to do things they normally could not get away with or rather think they could.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Really, though, until our generation grows into every nook and cranny of the law-making process, the government should really stay out of the internet. This is one series of tubes they just don't understand.
Though I'll put it in a small font.
Please stop hijacking my reply box.
Also, I think that most of the time that when bullying is found out something is done about it. The fact is that most bullying goes unreported and doesn't result in a death. I guarantee you that if more bullying resolved in deaths or bodily harm than you would see a huge amount of activism against bullying. I also find the comment about cops a bit of a generalization and it seems to me that you might have had some problems with bullying when you were younger.
Spam/Troll Infraction
i apologize for this i left my computer logged in at work
see, the thing is, that's the feeling I'm getting from the world governments concerning the Internet. they don't understand it, so they'll hamstring and homogenize it wherever possible. see France's HADOPI law for a severe example.
what I'm really worried about is the wording of the bill. if it had more of a clear, precise wording of what cyberbullying *is* other than "oh no he hurt my feelings on the internet :<<<<" then it probably wouldn't be as bad. as it reads right now though, it's like a water-tester for full blown censorship.
Although there are the internet tough guys, who will deny everything to save themselves.
this sounds more like ana excuse for the FEDGOVEto make a power grab an restrict free speach an is probably a misdirection to divert your attention from something bigger.
you can't log IP's as burden of proof you can spoof em an alter them.
need web design and other services check us out.
http://www.webstudio914.com/
This is why:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/30779197#30779197
Most of the people that do this are stupid and they never cover their tracks. Most of the time the purpetrators brag or are easily traceable. This is why the police during investigations will seize computers to double check the IP addresses.
We have an adversarial justice system that has to apply liturgical law to abstract realities. This is why new laws are created, to give a framework upon which the justice system can work.
What this gives are better penalties and options for law enforcement and parents of children that are bullied in such a manner. No one expects the United States government to police the internet in such a manner, they have issues from Russia and China hacking our power grids and such than these childish things.
Let's also be honest, employers these days look at internet footprints in the computer through simple search engines. If a website pops up that says an entire site is dedicated to humiliating you, it's not going to be very good for your first impression. The same goes for children of bullied individuals. A net savvy individual that researches the parents and finds such "digital evidence" can bring it to bear. So it becomes a generational issue.
Then there is the issue of people utilizing zombie server attacks on personal home computers and other whacky retalliation episodes. We really don't need vigilantism on the net. It might work for strangers on a forum like this, however it doesn't work well in personal settings.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
How can something one says over the internet be proven to cause someone else to kill themselves? Hell, the sentiment "kill yourself" is rampant on less-strict forums. It's obviously used hyperbolically and sarcastically to mean "you are unbelievably wrong/stupid," but is it really on the person who said that if their target commits suicide?
If I'm walking down the street and someone accidentally bumps into me and I say "hey, watch it, moron!" and they really take that to heart and kill themselves, does it make any sense at all that I should be liable?
Though I'll put it in a small font.
Please stop hijacking my reply box.
Exactly. I could be cyberbullying or what ever and not get caught. Maybe that is what I should do to release the pent up anger when I was really bullied in school.
There will likely be difficulty with international enforcement, but at least in the USA there is a procedure to follow. Don't get me wrong, I am not dissing other countries. I am just familiar with the USA's system of rule.