I will openly scoff anyone who takes pride in the fact that they smoke, because let's be honest here, if you're smoking to relieve insecurity, then what respect am I supposed to have for you?
I think it was Phillip K. Dick who said that drug use is a decision, like stepping in front of an oncoming car. That's more or less my view on those who smoke. I have friends who smoke and love them, it's just saddening, especially with my best friend, who is a singer with probably the most beautiful voice I've ever heard.
I don't inhale
Right, you just do it socially. You can't not inhale.
Granted, I am wasting money to feed the addiction, but some people waste their money on other things. Gambling, Drugs, and Alcohol, porn sites (its free people..comeon), ebay, netflix, etc... As long as its not your money it's not your concern.
Like you said, you can do what you want; it's your money. However, this is not really a valid arguement. Just because other people waste their money on things doesn't mean you should, too. Just because everyone else is doing drugs doesn't mean one should, too. Just because everyone else is smoking... Oh, wait.
I don't think less of people who smoke, as I realize they are addicted. However, as most likely stated by at least half of the people on this thread, I do think less of those who take pride in their smoking in some instances. It has terrible health consequences and also affects everyone around you. All for what? A little pleasure and wasted money? So... How is that different from drugs?
Like you said, you can do what you want; it's your money. However, this is not really a valid arguement. Just because other people waste their money on things doesn't mean you should, too. Just because everyone else is doing drugs doesn't mean one should, too. Just because everyone else is smoking... Oh, wait.
i don't think that's exactly what he meant. "that guy's wasting his money on porn, so it's ok to waste my money on cigarettes." that doesn't justify it. he's just pointing out that there's really no public ban on wasting money on netflix or alcohol. no one really cares what those people are wasting their money on, so why should people care so much that spiderboy4 and i waste our money on cigarettes? it's not "ok" to waste money on anything, really. so why are cigarettes singled out here?
and spiderboy4, i agree whole heartedly. i am respectful to those that don't smoke. i have a friend who's g/f absolutely despises smoke and smoking. so when we go out to eat, it's ok to sit in the non smoking section. if i drive and she rides w/ me, i don't even smoke in my own vehicle. out of respect for her because i know she doesn't like it and it would make her uncomfortable. but on the same note, if i can be that respectful as a smoker to a non smoker, i expect that same respect back in return. don't look down on me because i just stepped out to have a cigarette.
i don't think that's exactly what he meant. "that guy's wasting his money on porn, so it's ok to waste my money on cigarettes." that doesn't justify it. he's just pointing out that there's really no public ban on wasting money on netflix or alcohol. no one really cares what those people are wasting their money on, so why should people care so much that spiderboy4 and i waste our money on cigarettes? it's not "ok" to waste money on anything, really. so why are cigarettes singled out here?
I am wasting money to feed the addiction, but some people waste their money on other things. Gambling, Drugs, and Alcohol, porn sites (its free people..comeon), ebay, netflix, etc...
The 'but' makes it seem like he is in fact saying it's not that bad since others waste money, as well.
It isn't really relevant anyway, as he's right on the second part. It's his money. He can do whatever he wants with it. I was just pointing out that the first sentence seemed like he was trying to justify it.
The monetary cost of smoking is obviously very large, but my main concern involving smoking is the toll it takes on your health, as well as those around you. You can smoke and kill yourself; just don't do it around me. As long as you're respectful and won't smoke around me, I am respectful and won't rant about the negative effects of smoking.
Yes, but in a public venue, a person should be able to do what they will, as long as it follows the law, correct? There is no violation of law of smoking in public. I can see your situation; filing into a building slowly with a bunch of smokers must suck, but I'm speaking of the average street.
I would say that certain concentrations of cigarette smoke in the air are harmful and need to be controlled, and to do so, enclosed areas need to have limits. Also, on a still day, a large number of people in one place smoking can create a problem, so I can see the argument against smoking in bus stops. Anti-loitering laws help in other areas. Once you get there, though, I'd say you're doing as much as is reasonable without outlawing the practice altogether, which may or may not be a good idea.
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My anecdotal evidence disagrees with yours! EXPLAIN THAT!
As long as you're respectful and won't smoke around me, I am respectful and won't rant about the negative effects of smoking.
and therein lies the problem. i am respectful to my buddy's girl who despises smoking simply because she's my buddy's girl. so it's more out of respect to him, than to her. some of both. but mostly because he's my friend. why i am so respectful to him when it comes to smoking? because a.) he doesn't really like it and b.) he doesn't "rant about the negative effects of smoking." people stating the obvious to me about my smoking habits only make me want to blow smoke in their face for spite. there's really no reason for you, or anyone for that matter, to state those negative effects to a smoker. people always tell me how bad smoking is for me as if i'm going to act surprised and quit smoking that instant.
so to all you non-smokers out there who feel the need to say things like, "smoking's bad for ya," here's a (probably) unanimous response: we know!
I smoke somewhere around three packs of Marlboro's a day, with a pack of Cloves or Luckies thrown in for good measure every now and again. I very much enjoy it, despite the health risks. They're delicious, and they calm my fluttering nerves.
I smoked back when cigarettes were cheap. But it's such an expensive habit now - I don't see how anyone can afford both smoking and MTG.
Very good. I never started (Dad lost both his parents to lung cancer and threatened to throw me out if I ever took it up) but ultimately that was my reason for never starting too - that it just wasn't economically viable for a teenager who couldn't even afford more than one booster a week. I think it's actually a conspiracy that WotC are trying to get kids off smoking and onto Magic cards. Seems to be working...they're just as addictive and they actually last, whereas with cigarettes you just burn them and they're gone. Try that with a Magic card and you'll be here all night.
Cloves look lethal and worse than "Mary Jane". I know perfectly respectable politicians that say they've stopped doing weed, but just stopped doing it because they started something worse - and in office too. I know that politics in this country is enough to drive anyone to those kind of things, but allegedly even David Cameron had a small problem in January when he fell asleep with a lit cigarette and started a small fire at Conservative Party headquarters. He got out - thankfully - but didn't take much with him except (unfortunately) his career.
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"He took the balls from many clerks/And hung them from a branch "When he struck us with feet and hands/It made Volpone dance!" - The Ballad of Dentling Nick, by Mr Owl
Very good. I never started (Dad lost both his parents to lung cancer and threatened to throw me out if I ever took it up) but ultimately that was my reason for never starting too - that it just wasn't economically viable for a teenager who couldn't even afford more than one booster a week. I think it's actually a conspiracy that WotC are trying to get kids off smoking and onto Magic cards. Seems to be working...they're just as addictive and they actually last, whereas with cigarettes you just burn them and they're gone. Try that with a Magic card and you'll be here all night.
No joke; playing Magic actually did help me quit. I figured that, if I saved what I spent on cigarettes, I could buy about one Revised dual land a week. (They were cheaper then, obv.)
So for each week I didn't smoke, I bought a dual land. It turned out to be an OK investment.
I can tell you this. Using any of the following:
"I smoke for the buzz, ill quit when I don’t get the buzz anymore"
"I don’t inhale"
"I like the taste"
"I just want to try it; I’m not going to get addicted"
"i do it to be social"
Well by the time you are at the "ok now its time to stop be4 I'm addicted" Its 2 late. Your hooked.
I smoke somewhere around three packs of Marlboro's a day, with a pack of Cloves or Luckies thrown in for good measure every now and again. I very much enjoy it, despite the health risks. They're delicious, and they calm my fluttering nerves.
I'm sorry.
-^- is basically my reaction to people who started smoking and are addicted, or who smoke in such a way that it does not negatively affect others. Truth is, there are other, cheaper ways to accomplish everything that smoking does for you (and many that don't actively poison you), but I do understand that smoking is addictive. That's how cigarette companies need it to be, and so I can sympathize with those that can't stop or don't see how it's killing them.
But that's the kicker. Smoking does, in fact, affect the area around the smoker in a negative way. Nicotine is an incredibly deadly alkaloid poison. The only reason smokers don't just keel over after one cigarette is because cigarettes have so little in them. That said, even small amounts of nicotine can be dangerous. Secondhand smoke is, in fact, a health hazard.
And if smokers do not accept this fact and therefore intentionally allow the air around them, with nonsmokers in it, to become unhealthy, that is not only extraordinarily rude, but it also against the rights allowed us by the Declaration of Independence in America. This does not mean that walking and smoking in public places is bad. It means that STANDING and smoking in public places when nonsmokers like me are around is bad.
And to be honest, if you're going to trample on my rights, I will feel free to trample on yours. With bullets.
(I do have issues with all toxic pollution for the same reason).
So, advice to a prospective smoker?
Don't.
Just dont.
Unless you plan to die before age 31.
After that, the negative effects far outweigh the positives. And there are other ways to get the positives. So just don't do it.
Hey, is there anyone else on the forums going to Rice University in Houston? We could ALWAYS use more people in our Magic games. PM me if you want to play sometime
I dont smoke. Never can, never will. It has many disadvantages
1. Health Issues - duh
2. Since its dangerous to health, its just a waste of money
3. Bad breath
4. Yellow teeth
5. darkens lips
6. Decent girls will dislike you and think youre a yucky person. I dont like this to happen to me. Mostly girls like me from being clean and good-smelling.^_^
7. Kissing turn-off
8. You dont just pollute yourself, you pollute everything..
After that, the negative effects far outweigh the positives. And there are other ways to get the positives. So just don't do it.
The problem is most smokers don't die suddenly at age 30. They linger on into their 60's and 70's, burdening their families and the public health care coffers with endless infirmities: emphysema, asthma, allergies, pneumonia, lung cancer, mouth cancer, throat cancer, heart troubles, vascular troubles, stroke, etc.
You can get all of these things without having smoked a cigarette in your life, but smoking brings on an excess of them.
Besides, it's a filthy habit that costs plenty to maintain. And who are the major smokers in any society? The poor, that's who. Quit smoking, and you suddenly have $50-$200 a month more you didn't have before. That's up to 20% of a pensioner's income.
I am completely agains smoking. I think that it kills people, smells bad, and really isn't worth the money. If people want to kill themselves for a bit of a thrill that's fine but i really hate it when people smoke around me or other people. If people are gonna smoke they shouldn't do it around people who aren't.
Besides, it's a filthy habit that costs plenty to maintain. And who are the major smokers in any society? The poor, that's who. Quit smoking, and you suddenly have $50-$200 a month more you didn't have before. That's up to 20% of a pensioner's income.
That touches onto a whole other issue of the impoverised using vices to get themselves through the day. The $135 from a 30 day month with $4.50 pack habit per day might not change the situation enough to make them any less stressed. It's easy to remake about well it's bad for them they should quit, and rattle off a the list of health effects and examples detailing how it hurts not only them but their family, and even people they don't know etc and so forth. Still that's not going to change the fact sometimes when a person is poor, they don't always see the long term it's hurts to look forward that far when you can't see a way out.
That touches onto a whole other issue of the impoverised using vices to get themselves through the day. The $135 from a 30 day month with $4.50 pack habit per day might not change the situation enough to make them any less stressed. It's easy to remake about well it's bad for them they should quit, and rattle off a the list of health effects and examples detailing how it hurts not only them but their family, and even people they don't know etc and so forth. Still that's not going to change the fact sometimes when a person is poor, they don't always see the long term it's hurts to look forward that far when you can't see a way out.
I've been poor, and grew up in a household of smokers. My mother justified smoking a lot because it helped give her the mental focus and motivation she needed to function on her job. Without her cigs, she was unable to focus and stay on task, and probably would have lost her job (she did anyway later on, but that's nothing to do with it). So that $120 a month was probably worth it because she got to keep a net $560 a month after taxes and cigs to support us.
I can't fault her, she did what she thought was best, and it was a devils bargain, because she had a stroke and a heart attack and wheezes heavily when she walks. I myself have asthma and permanent chronic bronchitis because of growing up in a 2-pack-day household for 22 years. But she had enough to pay rent and keep our family together, and I would have probably been a lot worse off.
Honestly, I feel people who are addicted to cigs for these sorts of reasons are better off getting professional treatment. Antidepressants, treatment of ADHD and even speed are better for you than cigs. In most cases, they're cheaper as well and have a lasting neurotrophic effect on the brain, rather than causing withdrawal. (It's probably not a good idea to quit your prozac all at once, some people do have withdrawal, but not univerasally so like a nicotine fit.) They aren't proven to cause cancer, they don't make your clothes smell bad, and they don't limit your social life to other people who smoke.
What society needs to do is ask itself whether paying $50,000 for cancer treatments or lung surgery or heart surgery is worth more than paying roughly the same amount in psychiatry fees to keep 1 person healthy and productive for an equal amount of time. The end result of course is that the heart or lung or cancer patient incurs a heap of disability and suffering from their illness, but the adequately treated person with ADHD or depression has essentially the same productivity and quality of life as if he or she had never been ill.
Of course, these are two different debates (mental health coverage by private insurers, vs. the merits/detractors of smoking) and presupposes the idea that smokers become hooked because they are self-medicating a probable neuropsychological disorder.
But as the largest growing demographic among smokers is the urban poor, who may have a higher prevalence of these disorders to begin with, it's a question worth asking.
I also hate it when parents smoke near their children. I mean, the last thing you want to do as a parent is addict your child to something as detrimental as smoking.
i'm not sure if you're aware of this but you can't get addicted to cigarettes thru second hand smoke alone. so, while i agree that smoking around your children is bad and not really a great example as a parent, it's not going to turn them into nicotine fiends.
Don't smoke, never intend to.
I will openly scoff anyone who takes pride in the fact that they smoke, because let's be honest here, if you're smoking to relieve insecurity, then what respect am I supposed to have for you?
I think it was Phillip K. Dick who said that drug use is a decision, like stepping in front of an oncoming car. That's more or less my view on those who smoke. I have friends who smoke and love them, it's just saddening, especially with my best friend, who is a singer with probably the most beautiful voice I've ever heard.
Right, you just do it socially. You can't not inhale.
Like you said, you can do what you want; it's your money. However, this is not really a valid arguement. Just because other people waste their money on things doesn't mean you should, too. Just because everyone else is doing drugs doesn't mean one should, too. Just because everyone else is smoking... Oh, wait.
I don't think less of people who smoke, as I realize they are addicted. However, as most likely stated by at least half of the people on this thread, I do think less of those who take pride in their smoking in some instances. It has terrible health consequences and also affects everyone around you. All for what? A little pleasure and wasted money? So... How is that different from drugs?
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i don't think that's exactly what he meant. "that guy's wasting his money on porn, so it's ok to waste my money on cigarettes." that doesn't justify it. he's just pointing out that there's really no public ban on wasting money on netflix or alcohol. no one really cares what those people are wasting their money on, so why should people care so much that spiderboy4 and i waste our money on cigarettes? it's not "ok" to waste money on anything, really. so why are cigarettes singled out here?
and spiderboy4, i agree whole heartedly. i am respectful to those that don't smoke. i have a friend who's g/f absolutely despises smoke and smoking. so when we go out to eat, it's ok to sit in the non smoking section. if i drive and she rides w/ me, i don't even smoke in my own vehicle. out of respect for her because i know she doesn't like it and it would make her uncomfortable. but on the same note, if i can be that respectful as a smoker to a non smoker, i expect that same respect back in return. don't look down on me because i just stepped out to have a cigarette.
calibretto
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The 'but' makes it seem like he is in fact saying it's not that bad since others waste money, as well.
It isn't really relevant anyway, as he's right on the second part. It's his money. He can do whatever he wants with it. I was just pointing out that the first sentence seemed like he was trying to justify it.
The monetary cost of smoking is obviously very large, but my main concern involving smoking is the toll it takes on your health, as well as those around you. You can smoke and kill yourself; just don't do it around me. As long as you're respectful and won't smoke around me, I am respectful and won't rant about the negative effects of smoking.
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It was late...
Actually it provides a mild euphoria.
"Stoned players can't attack, block, or play spells or abilities."
and therein lies the problem. i am respectful to my buddy's girl who despises smoking simply because she's my buddy's girl. so it's more out of respect to him, than to her. some of both. but mostly because he's my friend. why i am so respectful to him when it comes to smoking? because a.) he doesn't really like it and b.) he doesn't "rant about the negative effects of smoking." people stating the obvious to me about my smoking habits only make me want to blow smoke in their face for spite. there's really no reason for you, or anyone for that matter, to state those negative effects to a smoker. people always tell me how bad smoking is for me as if i'm going to act surprised and quit smoking that instant.
so to all you non-smokers out there who feel the need to say things like, "smoking's bad for ya," here's a (probably) unanimous response: we know!
calibretto
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
Very good. I never started (Dad lost both his parents to lung cancer and threatened to throw me out if I ever took it up) but ultimately that was my reason for never starting too - that it just wasn't economically viable for a teenager who couldn't even afford more than one booster a week. I think it's actually a conspiracy that WotC are trying to get kids off smoking and onto Magic cards. Seems to be working...they're just as addictive and they actually last, whereas with cigarettes you just burn them and they're gone. Try that with a Magic card and you'll be here all night.
Cloves look lethal and worse than "Mary Jane". I know perfectly respectable politicians that say they've stopped doing weed, but just stopped doing it because they started something worse - and in office too. I know that politics in this country is enough to drive anyone to those kind of things, but allegedly even David Cameron had a small problem in January when he fell asleep with a lit cigarette and started a small fire at Conservative Party headquarters. He got out - thankfully - but didn't take much with him except (unfortunately) his career.
Thank you to R&Doom for the amazing sig banner and Le_Gambit for the wonderful avatar.
"He took the balls from many clerks/And hung them from a branch
"When he struck us with feet and hands/It made Volpone dance!" - The Ballad of Dentling Nick, by Mr Owl
So for each week I didn't smoke, I bought a dual land. It turned out to be an OK investment.
"I smoke for the buzz, ill quit when I don’t get the buzz anymore"
"I don’t inhale"
"I like the taste"
"I just want to try it; I’m not going to get addicted"
"i do it to be social"
Well by the time you are at the "ok now its time to stop be4 I'm addicted" Its 2 late. Your hooked.
I'm sorry.
-^- is basically my reaction to people who started smoking and are addicted, or who smoke in such a way that it does not negatively affect others. Truth is, there are other, cheaper ways to accomplish everything that smoking does for you (and many that don't actively poison you), but I do understand that smoking is addictive. That's how cigarette companies need it to be, and so I can sympathize with those that can't stop or don't see how it's killing them.
But that's the kicker. Smoking does, in fact, affect the area around the smoker in a negative way. Nicotine is an incredibly deadly alkaloid poison. The only reason smokers don't just keel over after one cigarette is because cigarettes have so little in them. That said, even small amounts of nicotine can be dangerous. Secondhand smoke is, in fact, a health hazard.
And if smokers do not accept this fact and therefore intentionally allow the air around them, with nonsmokers in it, to become unhealthy, that is not only extraordinarily rude, but it also against the rights allowed us by the Declaration of Independence in America. This does not mean that walking and smoking in public places is bad. It means that STANDING and smoking in public places when nonsmokers like me are around is bad.
And to be honest, if you're going to trample on my rights, I will feel free to trample on yours. With bullets.
(I do have issues with all toxic pollution for the same reason).
So, advice to a prospective smoker?
Don't.
Just dont.
Unless you plan to die before age 31.
After that, the negative effects far outweigh the positives. And there are other ways to get the positives. So just don't do it.
Hey, is there anyone else on the forums going to Rice University in Houston? We could ALWAYS use more people in our Magic games. PM me if you want to play sometime
1. Health Issues - duh
2. Since its dangerous to health, its just a waste of money
3. Bad breath
4. Yellow teeth
5. darkens lips
6. Decent girls will dislike you and think youre a yucky person. I dont like this to happen to me. Mostly girls like me from being clean and good-smelling.^_^
7. Kissing turn-off
8. You dont just pollute yourself, you pollute everything..
Monogreen 2007 | Jund Aggro MTGO 2013
You can get all of these things without having smoked a cigarette in your life, but smoking brings on an excess of them.
Besides, it's a filthy habit that costs plenty to maintain. And who are the major smokers in any society? The poor, that's who. Quit smoking, and you suddenly have $50-$200 a month more you didn't have before. That's up to 20% of a pensioner's income.
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Standard II
WBGShamanGBW
RGSnow RampGR
WUProject X IIUW
That touches onto a whole other issue of the impoverised using vices to get themselves through the day. The $135 from a 30 day month with $4.50 pack habit per day might not change the situation enough to make them any less stressed. It's easy to remake about well it's bad for them they should quit, and rattle off a the list of health effects and examples detailing how it hurts not only them but their family, and even people they don't know etc and so forth. Still that's not going to change the fact sometimes when a person is poor, they don't always see the long term it's hurts to look forward that far when you can't see a way out.
I've been poor, and grew up in a household of smokers. My mother justified smoking a lot because it helped give her the mental focus and motivation she needed to function on her job. Without her cigs, she was unable to focus and stay on task, and probably would have lost her job (she did anyway later on, but that's nothing to do with it). So that $120 a month was probably worth it because she got to keep a net $560 a month after taxes and cigs to support us.
I can't fault her, she did what she thought was best, and it was a devils bargain, because she had a stroke and a heart attack and wheezes heavily when she walks. I myself have asthma and permanent chronic bronchitis because of growing up in a 2-pack-day household for 22 years. But she had enough to pay rent and keep our family together, and I would have probably been a lot worse off.
Honestly, I feel people who are addicted to cigs for these sorts of reasons are better off getting professional treatment. Antidepressants, treatment of ADHD and even speed are better for you than cigs. In most cases, they're cheaper as well and have a lasting neurotrophic effect on the brain, rather than causing withdrawal. (It's probably not a good idea to quit your prozac all at once, some people do have withdrawal, but not univerasally so like a nicotine fit.) They aren't proven to cause cancer, they don't make your clothes smell bad, and they don't limit your social life to other people who smoke.
What society needs to do is ask itself whether paying $50,000 for cancer treatments or lung surgery or heart surgery is worth more than paying roughly the same amount in psychiatry fees to keep 1 person healthy and productive for an equal amount of time. The end result of course is that the heart or lung or cancer patient incurs a heap of disability and suffering from their illness, but the adequately treated person with ADHD or depression has essentially the same productivity and quality of life as if he or she had never been ill.
Of course, these are two different debates (mental health coverage by private insurers, vs. the merits/detractors of smoking) and presupposes the idea that smokers become hooked because they are self-medicating a probable neuropsychological disorder.
But as the largest growing demographic among smokers is the urban poor, who may have a higher prevalence of these disorders to begin with, it's a question worth asking.
i'm not sure if you're aware of this but you can't get addicted to cigarettes thru second hand smoke alone. so, while i agree that smoking around your children is bad and not really a great example as a parent, it's not going to turn them into nicotine fiends.
calibretto
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.