KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
HR: Ah yes. The player I believe has the actual ability to find out an alignment without a danger of misyeet/kill has expressed interest in a specific player. CLEARLY the most Towny thing to do is MURDER THE HELL OUT OF THE PLAYER FOR THEM.
literally no point. Everyone's checked in, why are we keeping this Day going?
Vaimes: Why the hell do you run this insane gambit on HR of all people? He's not a hard player to figure out or get yeeted off. Why are you making so much extra work for yourself?
Gonna need more than a blind vote there grape. What about HR's reaction and alleged actions seem REMOTELY Town to you?
Nothing in particular. I just actively think that ZDS is obviously scum and want to wagons. Not really opposed to HR but prefer ZDS, Sloth's vague but firm KJ reasons aren't doing it for me. I'll vote HR at EoD if we need the numbers but I'm not going to be voting to end the day early on him.
I kinda had an inkling that Vaimes was not actually a cop. This situation reminded me of a recent Among Us game where my friend claimed my other friend vented, then when most of the votes were down, he says he didn't, he was just really confident.
ZDS is literally in my town pile, you're not even pretending to read the game.
Also stop acting like HR shooting the bodyguard's target is so impossible, Cantrip's answer is not definite, but the two things that are definite is that he says it's possible, and that he never said it wasn't.
As for ZDS: I read the eoD. What I saw was someone that was absolutely convinced they were right and would never second-guess it. Which fits with him as town. Him as scum is smarter, more flexible and more capable of diplomacy. A ssssssssssssssssssslippery snake as scum, a rock as town.
Sides, as scum he would have given up on Rhand way sooner. A 1-shot BP is not that useful if you're outted.
Gonna need more than a blind vote there grape. What about HR's reaction and alleged actions seem REMOTELY Town to you?
Nothing in particular. I just actively think that ZDS is obviously scum and want to wagons. Not really opposed to HR but prefer ZDS, Sloth's vague but firm KJ reasons aren't doing it for me. I'll vote HR at EoD if we need the numbers but I'm not going to be voting to end the day early on him.
Did you have any thoughts to my response to your ZDS question?
Did anyone? Cause there's only so many things we can talk about toDay and no one seems to be interested in actually doing so.
The desperation to derail the Rhand wagon, the complete focus on getting Eco killed, and again the massive effort at EoD for anyone but Rhand to die.
Is this seriously your only reason? I was also focused on Eco dying and hesitant on Rhand and I'm Town.
I've been scum with ZDS and in my experience he was not one to defend a buddy being wagoned. Your argument basically makes him sound like he'd be THAT obvious on D1 and desperate to keep a relatively inactive/ineffective buddy alive at the sacrifice of his own position with Town.
I do not have a red check on Highroller. It was a bluff.
In the least surprising development ever....
What is more surprising to me is the number of people who seemed to accept it without question. That said, you may, indeed have flushed out HR from this after all.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Not today, I mean, but tomorrow, when I'm home. Having an almost bird in hand tends to drain my motivation to do it, but I still can.
This is on wagons, and votes, and Eco's death. The question is if people actually want to read this stuff.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I do not see even a tiny case on KJ. Saying that now. Sloth, delightful person he may be, has approximately zero credibility right now, and the fact he's playing up his early and completely unexplained vote on Rhand as some kind of reason we all should be listening to him is
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I do not see even a tiny case on KJ. Saying that now. Sloth, delightful person he may be, has approximately zero credibility right now, and the fact he's playing up his early and completely unexplained vote on Rhand as some kind of reason we all should be listening to him is
If this, not just the vote, isn't enough for you to know I'm town, then anything else I will say will just be a waste of breath:
Believe it or not being super condescending even when you're right doesn't endear people to want to go alone with your play.
...Put. Upon. Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Fine. For you.
How did I know Rhand was scum?
I saw something others didn't. End of story.
Why did I not explain it yesterday?
Rhand tries not to be but he's a emotional player that uses logic to fight back. By not giving him anything to disarm, he was flustered and was defenseless against his own paranoia, which resulted in him slipping more and more as the Day went along and probably had a bigger impact in his yeet than anything else that happened this game.
None of you can deny that that's simply Rhand. He's formidable if the game is played on his rules only.
Why am I not explaining now?
Simple - until Rhand actually notices what went wrong, this is a Tell I can use in future games. He's a slippery player as is, and I know he eventually will (and probably get back at me something fierce then), but until then, I'm perfectly happy to maintain my advantage.
Why doesn't it matter this game and it's pointless to keep asking:
You, the town, don't need to know how I caught him now that he's flipped, because he is dead and scum.
All you need from me is to prove that I am town. I prove that I am town by capturing you more scum /points to KJ.
If anyone actually wants to bring up the ridiculous theory that rhand and I are scum and that I kept what I could have easily called an early RVS vote on him ALL DAY and only continued doubling-down on my belief and got my partner yote without a single inkling to save him, I invite you to share with the class.
If anyone actually thinks I of all people am not perfectly capable of coming up with a bull***** and completely believable reasoning for why I suspected Rhand during D1 or even after having had 48 free hours to make one up before D2, I...will honestly be stunned at the...capacity(?) to do so.
What you need to know is I'm town. Nothing else. What move have I made that makes sense as scum?
Let's call a spade a spade.
Also let's yeet HR already.
I can't say I understand your read on KJ, it makes no sense. For someone who's being accused of being tightlipped, I actually talked about KJ
Explain his towniness to me again.
Is this seriously your only reason? I was also focused on Eco dying and hesitant on Rhand and I'm Town.
I've been scum with ZDS and in my experience he was not one to defend a buddy being wagoned. Your argument basically makes him sound like he'd be THAT obvious on D1 and desperate to keep a relatively inactive/ineffective buddy alive at the sacrifice of his own position with Town.
It's just a BAD scum play that early in the game
You weren't flailing the way ZDS was. And yes it is bad play, but only because Rhand wasn't saved. If it works then it's a great play. High risk, but high reward.
As for the points about ZDS being slippery and not like a rock when scum (@sloth) yes that is generally his meta but in game one on day where he already had bad interactions with Rhand desperation to not fall behind in the count immediately makes complete sense. And I can't look at meta over the classic wagon dynamics at play. He continually attempted to move the wagon off towards anyone but Rhand growing in forcefulness throughout the day.
You realize that - if it were Highroller and KJ as the two other Mafia - then the two of them speed hammered their buddy at the deadline with literally two minutes left, yes?
One, I could believe. Not both.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
You realize that - if it were Highroller and KJ as the two other Mafia - then the two of them speed hammered their buddy at the deadline with literally two minutes left, yes?
One, I could believe. Not both.
Very much agree with this. And I'd read your lot's of words. I finally feel a little more sane for not giving Sloth all the credit for the Rhand flip. I felt like I had read a completely different game to Vaimes, Sloth, and Ter.
FTR, I still want KJ first but that feels like a harder sell right now and I want Vaimes to acknowledge his mess by cleaning it up.
You are such a drama queen.
My scumteam was Rhand/Highroller/Ecophagy. Rhand was scum, Ecophagy was town, and I was planning on faking my redcheck on Highroller anyway because I thought the wagons pointed towards Ecophagy being scum. I've pretty much laid this out already.
I don't find him to be an "easy read" because I've never seen him as scum, so I have nothing to compare his town play to. It seems like he's caught here, and look at how many meta passes he got Day 1.
You realize that - if it were Highroller and KJ as the two other Mafia - then the two of them speed hammered their buddy at the deadline with literally two minutes left, yes?
One, I could believe. Not both.
I realize that. Is that supposed to be a surprising thing?
Rhand died by 8 votes. There were other players around eoD2, A hammer would have happened without them if need be and they (or yeah, one, if it's only KJ/HR), needed to jump in otherwise questions would be uncomfortable.
The idea that they wouldn't have coordinated a quick hammer is...interesting. As if it wouldn't be possible for that to be discussed in scumchat? Silly.
You realize that - if it were Highroller and KJ as the two other Mafia - then the two of them speed hammered their buddy at the deadline with literally two minutes left, yes?
One, I could believe. Not both.
Very much agree with this. And I'd read your lot's of words. I finally feel a little more sane for not giving Sloth all the credit for the Rhand flip. I felt like I had read a completely different game to Vaimes, Sloth, and Ter.
Grape, stop blindly following the loudest new voice in the room. The idea of a speed hammer of a buddy is not even unlikely much less impossible.
We all know Sloth has no credibility and just wants to get through the game as quickly as possible.
Maybe if he acted with a bit more grace and pretended to care about teamwork, people would be open to his ideas, as radical as they seem.
Why pretend? I like teamwork.
I'm just right about the fact that until KJ/HR are dead, this game's just purgatory.
And it's boring as ****.
Have one of them flip town. I'll start caring again then.
If it works then it's a great play. High risk, but high reward.
No it's not. It's short sighted and rewardless. In a role madness game with BP scum dispenser that there's a Town vig is common sense. Scum!ZDS gets people off the Scum!Rhand wagon and unto a misyeet...Townvig with any sort of sense is gonna SHOOT rhand revealing scum D2 start.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Grape, stop blindly following the loudest new voice in the room. The idea of a speed hammer of a buddy is not even unlikely much less impossible.
If I was doing that I would have voted KJ! Because you're definitely the loudest! Anyway KJ is townier than ZDS.
I really think you're barking at the wrong tree with ZDS and your reasonings are bonkers, admittedly: ZDS was looking bad so he thought to blatantly save his buddy and look worse?
Also stop saying he was desperately trying to get any other wagon going. He was on Eco and Axel, players he had been insisting were scum for quite sometime, it's not a remote shock that he doubled-down on them. He didn't jump on Jack from what I recall?
To be fair I said no early hammer before everyone had one more say.
No it's not. It's short sighted and rewardless. In a role madness game with BP scum dispenser that there's a Town vig is common sense. Scum!ZDS gets people off the Scum!Rhand wagon and unto a misyeet...Townvig with any sort of sense is gonna SHOOT rhand revealing scum D2 start.
ZDS was not scum read by a majority of players. Rhand was by a plurality but not majority in the run up. Again high risk high reward. If you go into the night without a flip Eco was as likely a vig as Rhand was and with a Rhand flip it could have gone just about anywhere. Your argument is basically TWTBAW and yeah I'm not buying it. If those two were buddies they would have been very comfortable in their abilities and a decision to powerwolf to the bitter end would not surprise me in the slightest.
I really think you're barking at the wrong tree with ZDS and your reasonings are bonkers, admittedly: ZDS was looking bad so he thought to blatantly save his buddy and look worse?
Also stop saying he was desperately trying to get any other wagon going. He was on Eco and Axel, players he had been insisting were scum for quite sometime, it's not a remote shock that he doubled-down on them. He didn't jump on Jack from what I recall?
ZDS only looks bad because Rhand is confirmed scum. If Rhand didn't flip there (which was ZDS's goal in my view) things are much more in flux and there is a much larger pool a vig could have shot. And he never needed to jump to Jack because Eco's wagon pretty much was neck and neck with Rhand's all the way through.
Like you just UTTERLY gave up when Vaimes said that.
"Highroller expected the town to lynch a guy who claimed cop said was mafia! That's illogical and he must be mafia because of it!"
Why would town roll over and die at a false red check?
This makes no sense to me. It's like asking, "Why would you sacrifice a pawn to kill a Queen?" I can just die and reveal that he was lying. That's an insane trade, especially since I've already spent my kill attempt, so I'm just a vanilla town at this point.
And again I am here asking you what about this train of events is Town.
HR: False claiming a powerole is not a Town act.
Vaimes: LOL I DID THAT! WE SHOULD CHECK OUT IGNO
HR: I shall now target Igno, person who I my logic dictates does not have a Town wincon.
First of all, my argument that this is not a town action is clearly invalidated by the fact that, apparently, that exact action - along with LYING ABOUT YOUR ******* INSPECTION RESULTS - is apparently a thing that nobody questions around here. Nobody else seems to be bothered about that. So I thought, ok, I guess this is a thing people do. I just came from a game in which a guy claimed a serial killer role and everyone was cool with letting him win, that baffled the hell out of me, I guess that's comparatively more weird than this, and Vaimes trolling on multiple levels is totally in keeping with his personality. I just chalked it up to yet another wacky thing you all do on this damn forum that confuses the absolute hell out of me.
Second, he had a valid point. Igno is a low poster, if I didn't flip him, we'd probably have to burn an inspection or a lynch to figure out his alignment. Not to mention I just came from a game in which we had a similar situation with BoomFrog: didn't post a lot, was lurky, people said, "Hey, this guy might be an issue," but no one really ever did anything about it because it always seemed like there were higher priority targets, and guess what? He was mafia and they won.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
To play devil's advocate for a second I don't see hardly any sense to HR claiming that shot as a vig if he's scum. The only possible thing is anti-spew but I'm not really sure that makes sense. Then again neither does anything else from today...
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Axel...sloth....HR....Grape...Dork.
Bad Vagoo, bad.
Unvote
Vote: Killjoy
In fairness, even without a redcheck, HR's reaction is so bad he's probably scum anyway?
For now I will sit here though
Vote KJ
Vaimes: Why the hell do you run this insane gambit on HR of all people? He's not a hard player to figure out or get yeeted off. Why are you making so much extra work for yourself?
Cause I wanna see final words from everyone.
Nothing in particular. I just actively think that ZDS is obviously scum and want to wagons. Not really opposed to HR but prefer ZDS, Sloth's vague but firm KJ reasons aren't doing it for me. I'll vote HR at EoD if we need the numbers but I'm not going to be voting to end the day early on him.
Also stop acting like HR shooting the bodyguard's target is so impossible, Cantrip's answer is not definite, but the two things that are definite is that he says it's possible, and that he never said it wasn't.
Did anyone? Cause there's only so many things we can talk about toDay and no one seems to be interested in actually doing so.
Is this seriously your only reason? I was also focused on Eco dying and hesitant on Rhand and I'm Town.
I've been scum with ZDS and in my experience he was not one to defend a buddy being wagoned. Your argument basically makes him sound like he'd be THAT obvious on D1 and desperate to keep a relatively inactive/ineffective buddy alive at the sacrifice of his own position with Town.
It's just a BAD scum play that early in the game
UNVOTE
VOTE: HIGHROLLER
KJ tomorrow or maybe if we have a vig running around aside from Eco, they'll help us out.
Well Vaimes?
What is more surprising to me is the number of people who seemed to accept it without question. That said, you may, indeed have flushed out HR from this after all.
An awful lot.
Not today, I mean, but tomorrow, when I'm home. Having an almost bird in hand tends to drain my motivation to do it, but I still can.
This is on wagons, and votes, and Eco's death. The question is if people actually want to read this stuff.
I am literate....
"Any special message for all the kids watching at home?"
"Take me to bed, or lose me forever."
Highroller (3): Jackrito, ZeDorkSlipeur, Slothful
ZeDorkSlipeur (1): Grapefruit21
Killjoy (1): TerRaine
Not Voting (4): Axelrod, gooLagoon, Highroller, Killjoy
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eject!
Day 2 deadline is Thursday, February 18th, at 4:15pm MST.
Please inform me if there are any errors in votecounts.
If you have a question for me, the most consistent way to quickly get my attention is to ping me on Discord.
But I suspect I'll be in the minority here.
Explain his towniness to me again.
You weren't flailing the way ZDS was. And yes it is bad play, but only because Rhand wasn't saved. If it works then it's a great play. High risk, but high reward.
As for the points about ZDS being slippery and not like a rock when scum (@sloth) yes that is generally his meta but in game one on day where he already had bad interactions with Rhand desperation to not fall behind in the count immediately makes complete sense. And I can't look at meta over the classic wagon dynamics at play. He continually attempted to move the wagon off towards anyone but Rhand growing in forcefulness throughout the day.
One, I could believe. Not both.
Very much agree with this. And I'd read your lot's of words. I finally feel a little more sane for not giving Sloth all the credit for the Rhand flip. I felt like I had read a completely different game to Vaimes, Sloth, and Ter.
My scumteam was Rhand/Highroller/Ecophagy. Rhand was scum, Ecophagy was town, and I was planning on faking my redcheck on Highroller anyway because I thought the wagons pointed towards Ecophagy being scum. I've pretty much laid this out already.
I don't find him to be an "easy read" because I've never seen him as scum, so I have nothing to compare his town play to. It seems like he's caught here, and look at how many meta passes he got Day 1.
Maybe if he acted with a bit more grace and pretended to care about teamwork, people would be open to his ideas, as radical as they seem.
Rhand died by 8 votes. There were other players around eoD2, A hammer would have happened without them if need be and they (or yeah, one, if it's only KJ/HR), needed to jump in otherwise questions would be uncomfortable.
The idea that they wouldn't have coordinated a quick hammer is...interesting. As if it wouldn't be possible for that to be discussed in scumchat? Silly.
I'm just right about the fact that until KJ/HR are dead, this game's just purgatory.
And it's boring as ****.
Have one of them flip town. I'll start caring again then.
If I was doing that I would have voted KJ! Because you're definitely the loudest! Anyway KJ is townier than ZDS.
No it's not. It's short sighted and rewardless. In a role madness game with BP scum dispenser that there's a Town vig is common sense. Scum!ZDS gets people off the Scum!Rhand wagon and unto a misyeet...Townvig with any sort of sense is gonna SHOOT rhand revealing scum D2 start.
Also stop saying he was desperately trying to get any other wagon going. He was on Eco and Axel, players he had been insisting were scum for quite sometime, it's not a remote shock that he doubled-down on them. He didn't jump on Jack from what I recall?
ZDS was not scum read by a majority of players. Rhand was by a plurality but not majority in the run up. Again high risk high reward. If you go into the night without a flip Eco was as likely a vig as Rhand was and with a Rhand flip it could have gone just about anywhere. Your argument is basically TWTBAW and yeah I'm not buying it. If those two were buddies they would have been very comfortable in their abilities and a decision to powerwolf to the bitter end would not surprise me in the slightest.
ZDS only looks bad because Rhand is confirmed scum. If Rhand didn't flip there (which was ZDS's goal in my view) things are much more in flux and there is a much larger pool a vig could have shot. And he never needed to jump to Jack because Eco's wagon pretty much was neck and neck with Rhand's all the way through.
Of course you didn't. What the hell is wrong with you?
Alright, well I might as well reread the thread now, since there might actually be a point and, no, I'm not going to self-hammer, ya jerkasses.
"I might as well reread the thread now"
Like you just UTTERLY gave up when Vaimes said that. Why would town roll over and die at a false red check?
And again I am here asking you what about this train of events is Town.
HR: False claiming a powerole is not a Town act.
Vaimes: LOL I DID THAT! WE SHOULD CHECK OUT IGNO
HR: I shall now target Igno, person who I my logic dictates does not have a Town wincon.
"Highroller expected the town to lynch a guy who claimed cop said was mafia! That's illogical and he must be mafia because of it!"
This makes no sense to me. It's like asking, "Why would you sacrifice a pawn to kill a Queen?" I can just die and reveal that he was lying. That's an insane trade, especially since I've already spent my kill attempt, so I'm just a vanilla town at this point.
First of all, my argument that this is not a town action is clearly invalidated by the fact that, apparently, that exact action - along with LYING ABOUT YOUR ******* INSPECTION RESULTS - is apparently a thing that nobody questions around here. Nobody else seems to be bothered about that. So I thought, ok, I guess this is a thing people do. I just came from a game in which a guy claimed a serial killer role and everyone was cool with letting him win, that baffled the hell out of me, I guess that's comparatively more weird than this, and Vaimes trolling on multiple levels is totally in keeping with his personality. I just chalked it up to yet another wacky thing you all do on this damn forum that confuses the absolute hell out of me.
Second, he had a valid point. Igno is a low poster, if I didn't flip him, we'd probably have to burn an inspection or a lynch to figure out his alignment. Not to mention I just came from a game in which we had a similar situation with BoomFrog: didn't post a lot, was lurky, people said, "Hey, this guy might be an issue," but no one really ever did anything about it because it always seemed like there were higher priority targets, and guess what? He was mafia and they won.
Which of those two is scummier and why?