As for my own claim of "doormanning" the NK victim, there really isn't a way to talk about it that doesn't taste like wine. Nevertheless, for the record, if I were scum I would not have targeted the NK victim in the first place.
So you wouldn’t target the guy you’re gonna kill with another ability that sounds like it might prevent protection? And doesn’t give a possible track on you two targets? I mean... come on. We’re not dumb lol.
I think ZDS/GJ is my final answer because I think HR is town and Grape/ZDS makes no sense.
ZDS setting up a chainyeet on GJ/me with ate to Grape and HR and then that obvious “I would never do this as mafia” lie seals the deal on him.
Of course he doesn’t care if his buddy dies toDay as long as I die toMorrow.
I’m iso’ing everyone now to be sure I’m not confbiasing, but I’m pretty much sold that that is the solution.
About the claims:
GJ: win vs Rhand, upgrade and burn
Rhand: win vs Grape, loss vs GJ, upgrade
Grape: loss vs ZDS, loss vs Rhand, message
ZDS: ? vs Last, win vs Grape, win vs HR
HR: loss vs ZDS, upgrade
If there is logic to the upgrades, then I think Last targeted HR and lost, giving HR a win/loss and the same upgrade result as me.
So LW rock at HR, giving ZDS a loss/win/win. I think. If no one lied.
@ZDS: walk me through the thought process of “HR is mafia” to “HR is probably town because Wisp and Pokechu are mafia” to “HR is town because Rhand and GJ are mafia”. Apart from calling other people mafia, you never gave a reason why you dropped the HR scumread, you told him you would continue the discussion toDay if Poke flipped town, you said you townread Wisp after rereading but you even skipped HR in that reread. It makes no sense.
@HR you said at one point that Grape putting ZDS at L-1 when he did was his only option as a buddy.
It’s the same thing that I cleared that team possibility for. Do you really think that the buddy’s hand was forced at that point? Why?
Extrapolating that, do you think it excludes GJ / ZDS because GJ did not vote ZDS there?
@ZDS look at Wisp’s answers and tell me again how my question isn’t game related? It is just as much game related as asking someone why they didn’t ask the mod a question.
I still don’t get why you post both the question and the answer in one post rather than deleting the question when you see it’s answered.
OMGUS can be a natural adverse reaction to what you feel is an unfair attack, or it can be a calculated attempt to discredit both the attack and the attacker.
Which one do you think Rhand is doing?
I'm not going to jump at your throat if I don't like your answer... as long as you actually commit to a stance and stop the "on the one hand this, on the other hand that" dance.
Interesting question. I would like to see your own answer to it as well.
I’m pretty sure the bolded means ZDS and GJ are unaligned.
Note to self. ZDS, if we are ever partners, we just need to tickle each other chins and if one goes down, the other is insta locked
I would like to see your own answer to it as well.
I mean, considering his vote on you, hasn't he already answered this question? o-0
Sorry for the stringposting but it looks like I am all alone in the thread.
I iso’d GJ and can’t find anything. If he’s mafia, he played a very clean game.
The only thing is that if he is mafia, Wisp was onto him and died. But that’s a bunch of wine.
As far as a combo with ZDS goes: he defended ZDS a lot. That one post still bugs me though because why would you ever tell your buddy that you won’t attack him IN THREAD. It makes no sense.
Still have the Grape iso to do but need a break. I hope meanwhile some of you post to break my stringposts lol.
So you wouldn’t target the guy you’re gonna kill with another ability that sounds like it might prevent protection? And doesn’t give a possible track on you two targets? I mean... come on. We’re not dumb lol.
How the heck do you read "doorman" and think "it might prevent protection"?
I think ZDS/GJ is my final answer because I think HR is town and Grape/ZDS makes no sense.
ZDS setting up a chainyeet on GJ/me with ate to Grape and HR and then that obvious “I would never do this as mafia” lie seals the deal on him.
Of course he doesn’t care if his buddy dies toDay as long as I die toMorrow.
Now that's a hot take. If the scum team is Johnny and I, why would we try a "chainyeet" bussing gamble when we could gang up on literally anyone and win the game toDay?
In addition, why would I not maintain my town read on Johnny from yesterDay? Nobody would bat an eye at it, I would show some consistency and he and I would have no need to run the world's most pointless gamble.
You could maybe argue Johnny is bussing me for safety, since I am the top scum read by a margin. The other way around makes no sense.
@ZDS: walk me through the thought process of “HR is mafia” to “HR is probably town because Wisp and Pokechu are mafia” to “HR is town because Rhand and GJ are mafia”. Apart from calling other people mafia, you never gave a reason why you dropped the HR scumread, you told him you would continue the discussion toDay if Poke flipped town, you said you townread Wisp after rereading but you even skipped HR in that reread. It makes no sense.
Reason #1 is because my scumread on him ran its course. Early on he didn't seem as convinced by his own arguments as he was in Snow White, but as time went on he showed more and more conviction.
Reason #2 is because he's been so hostile to Grape and Johnny (and me), his only possible scumbuddy is you. I am not entirely discounting that option, but I find it less likely than you+Johnny
How does a doorman not open the door for someone to come in without trouble? It’s the first role that jumps to mind.
What did you think it would do?
Who would you and GJ gang up on then if you wanted to keep townreading each other? That would mean accusing 2 towns together and you would need the third to side with you or have the two turn on each other. That would be extremely hard to pull off.
Dropping the HR scumread is the easy way out since Grape and me won’t lynch him.
You said in 242 that you would continue the discussion with HR on Day 2.
HR made 0 posts after that on Day 1 besides a twilight post to Snoopy.
You decided overNight, while skipping him in your reread, that you were wrong. Your explanation doesn’t add up.
I don't need to reread Grape and HR to tell they have been two of the most proactive players in the game. Meanwhile you and Johnny have been the two most passive and wait-and-see players by a large margin. It should be no mystery why I scumread the two of you above either of them.
My worldview is that Johnny and you were expecting toDay to be a breeze, with Grape and HR voting me, me voting HR and the two of you waiting for a chance to hammer.
Meanwhile, I did my best to reset my reads after Pokechu's misbonk. After I had been proven wrong once, I had all the reasons in the world not to go back on my one-man crusade as if nothing had happened.
As a result I changed my reads out of apparently nowhere, and now you and Johnny both have to fit me into pairings that make zero sense, round-peg-in-square-hole style. Credits to Highroller as well for not going after my throat as soon as the Day started.
I may be wrong. Maybe Grape is pulling the wool over my eyes, maybe I am too forgiving towards HR. Despite this uncertainty, I stand by the first paragraph of this post.
Meh I was gonna answer something but deleted it because I’m not gonna convince you that you’re mafia and you clearly stopped answering my questions.
We need others to chime in now.
Actually no, I can’t leave this hanging. You’re throwing empty accusations without a shred of proof.
Show me why Highroller and Grape are more “proactive” than me. It’s just a buzzword you threw in with no reasoning. And it doesn’t mesh with your previous Highroller view at all + you said you didn’t even reread Highroller.
You ask questions, you provide opinions and reads, but you do not give any sign of wanting to have an impact on the game.
We could go back in time and undo nearly all your posts and absolutely nothing would change, the exact same events would happen at the exact same time. The exception is #25, and only because it was the start of a chain reaction.
The same cannot be said of Grape and HR's posts. Regarding HR in particular, I have no idea why you are implying I viewed him as not proactive, especially considering my scumread on him was an OMGUS reaction to his (both very proactive and very wrong) attacks on me.
By the way, I still remember HR and Grape's play even if I did not reread them. I don't have Alzheimer's yet.
If you are town then where am I wrong? Who is scum instead of you?
Like I pointed out earlier, I make the least sense out of anyone as anyone else's buddy.
The only way you can fit me in a scum-pairing is to come up with a theory that, itself, is only justified by being the only way you can fit me in a scum-pairing.
If you are town, you should realise how wrong that is. If you are scum... keep going I guess.
As a result I changed my reads out of apparently nowhere, and now you and Johnny both have to fit me into pairings that make zero sense, round-peg-in-square-hole style. Credits to Highroller as well for not going after my throat as soon as the Day started.
Meanwhile, I did my best to reset my reads after Pokechu's misbonk. After I had been proven wrong once, I had all the reasons in the world not to go back on my one-man crusade as if nothing had happen
See, these two things don't mesh. I had not only Poke as a wolf but LW as a likely candidate. If I was wrong on one, I figured Grape was the most likely partner based on just not posting, but I for 1): I can't believe you can safe with a straight face Grape has been proactive. It's an awful read from you at best.
But to my point from the above, if I am town, and my team blew up in my face in the morning, why wouldn't I forget everything I know and try to figure it out? You just played a wolf game with as town where I did exactly the same thing, and proceeded to correctly 180 you and YMC. In this game, why wouldn't I re-evaluate and try to figure out where I went wrong, instead of going after Grape (who you think is town) also while having HR as a back up. That seems to be a much easier path for me as a wolf for victory, rather than trying to turn on Rhand who was leaning town, and you (who I was reading town)
My issue with your long winded post is that you aren't trying to see the game from a GJ town perspective. Rhand calling my game clean, but still hedging that I might be a wolf is lolable at best, and I have no idea how Grape can see that and still go "WeLl, GJ mAkEs ThE mOsT sEnSe." It's utterly ridiculous.
I have no idea where HR this game right now, other than imagining he is pulling his hair out trying to figure claims.
I can't get invested in the game for reasons I want to keep for myself until postgame so it doesn't look like I'm appealing to emotions.
I tried to clear myself out of respect for those who care about the game more than I do, it's the least I can do since my reads aren't strong (neither subjectively nor objectively) and I'm in the eye of the storm.
If I cannot remove myself from the POE pool despite being the player least likely to be scum with anyone else, so be it.
Instead, let's start some action.
Vote: Rhand
Him and me are in basically every seriously suggested scum-pairing IIRC, especially me. So it's likely at least one of us is scum.
If we are both town, then he gets double-hammered and we lose and I suck. This would mean the scum-team is GJ/GF or GF/HR or HR/GJ, in which case the entire town sucks.
If he doesn't get double-hammered, then like I said at least one of us has to be scum (hint: it's not me).
Which means it's a duel:
— In the red corner, Rhand with his signature attack, the "circular logic punch",
VERSUS
— In the blue corner, ZeDorkSlipeur with his signature attack, "kicking himself in the low-hanging fruits".
———
I'll be back in several hours, have fun screaming at me.
So, having reread the game, I don’t see myself voting anyone except ZDS. I’ll listen to arguments, but he was far and away the most suspicious person in my book coming into this day and rereading the thread has not changed this.
I’m really of a mixed opinion with regards to Grape. On the one hand, the post that rubs me the wrong way was his defending ZDS’ process specifically with regards LastWhisper, which, actually, upon rereading the part in question, yeah, that part, in-and-of itself, is fine. It’s actually one of the least problematic things ZDS has posted.
It's not about the stats though. Like yes that is the randomized distribution but we have actual results of what people think, and the people suspect me. I also don't particular care where my claim falls as long as ZDS claims before HR and you claim before me. Literally the only two bits of ordering I care about.
In fact, actually this goes for everyone. Make the argument for your opinions on ZDS/Rhand, ZDS/Grape, and ZDS/GJ. Explain why things make sense vs. why you think they don’t.
So, having reread the game, I don’t see myself voting anyone except ZDS. I’ll listen to arguments, but he was far and away the most suspicious person in my book coming into this day and rereading the thread has not changed this.
If I'm tunneling a player, which includes town-tunneling, no amount of rereading them is going to make me change my mind.
On rare occasions I have an epiphany and realise something I was not understanding about them, but most of the time the only way I get out of a tunnel is by listening to other players.
Unfortunately nobody is vouching for me .
———
As another side note, if anyone here is trying to figure out who to bury after burying me, don't, that's pointless. You will find out why if you bury me.
I won't be here during the final rush (because time zones), so you guys have fun and I'll see you postgame or toMorrow (<- pretend this smiley is waving goodbye)
1. How good is LastWhisper’s track record on reading GJ really?
I don't know. I think it's decent but not the immaculate record he claims. I'd weight it more than a random strong read but not a lock on it's own by any means.
3.
Quote from Grape »
Small town read on Wisp and HR. Minor scum ping on Rhand.
Go over why again?
The scum ping on Rhand was over the busy work about the mechanics. I felt that for Rhand it was slightly out of character and felt like presence for presence sake.
The town read on Wisp was for his flavor claim. He loves a claim but as scum I think he would have done something with it. As for you it was your frustration about mechanics. I think it comes across differently if you're in a scum chat.
4.
Explain the story behind this post. You never actually asked me a question.
I'd thought I'd formed this as a question and not a statement.
@HR there are a limited number of things to decide. I'm sure you could make a decent guess as to what they could be. Now angel of death in a bit more ambiguous.
I wanted you to talk about what you thought a decider did and then dropped it when I began to more firmly town read you.
5. Grape, explain the vote dance with regards to ZDS on posts #173 and #182.
I'm not sure what else there is to explain. I got spooked by Pokechu's town read on me and wanted to unvote to slow the wagon on ZDS, then their explanation placated me but I didn't want to place a second vote back on ZDS right away.
6.
Quote from Grape »
It's not about the stats though. Like yes that is the randomized distribution but we have actual results of what people think, and the people suspect me. I also don't particular care where my claim falls as long as ZDS claims before HR and you claim before me. Literally the only two bits of ordering I care about.
Why him over you?
? Do you mean Rhand or GJ? I was trying to bluff GJ since I thought he was scum and for Rhand I was trying to extend an olive branch because I didn't overly care where I claimed.
In fact, actually this goes for everyone. Make the argument for your opinions on ZDS/Rhand, ZDS/Grape, and ZDS/GJ. Explain why things make sense vs. why you think they don’t.
You can figure out Rhand vs GJ tomorrow. I'd lean towards GJ because I don't think ZDS/Rhand super make sense as partners because of RVS but that is very weak. But the voting now has a whiff of scum cross voting desperation to it (though makes less sense as I'd just signaled I was about to vote GJ).
I mean, if we kill ZDS, it's a moot point, and also I don't have any illusions about being alive tomorrow.
I wouldn't rule out ZDS/Rhand. To be perfectly honest, I kind of have the rest of you not-ZDS/not-me's on the same tier. Every time I think one of you does something suspicious, you then do something that's more mafia, or vice-versa.
There is a thing I'd like to ask you, Grape. Why did you feel ZDS's vote on Rhand was fine? That's the thing I can't get about you.
@HR the vote on Rhand in RVS was fine because Rhand is better than busy work even in RVS. He should have been pressured over it. ZDS picked a bad example of busy work so it was only fine but the point of Rhand not moving the game was accurate.
I don't but if we lost (and GJ's silent hammer makes me think we did) outside of you slow rolling like a crazy person it has to be GJ/Rhand from my POV.
ZeDorkSlipeur has been kicked. They were... Town Monty Hall Cop ("The Doorman")
Town can no longer win, as mafia has reached parity.
Setup Reminder:
Rock beats Scissors, Scissors beats Paper, Paper beats Rock.
Each player chooses rock, paper, or scissors each night, and may target another player. Players may not self-target unless their role states otherwise.
Players learn their alignment and a hint word but not their role or abilities.
Win/Draw/Lose
Win/Draw/Lose at Janken.
ZDS - Town Monty Hall Cop - "The Doorman"
If you are protected, you are roleblocked.
Rhand - Mafia Redirector - "The Commander"
Wins against lower level.
XXX/Upgrade/XXX
Redirector (You)/Downgrade/Magnetizer (Target)
Full Rodder/Bus Driver (You)/XXX
ZeDorkSlipeur - Town Monty Hall Cop - The Doorman
If you are protected, you are roleblocked.
On win, you and your target each choose (non-targeting) another player and then it's between your target and the other 2.
TSS - If C is town, then B is town.
TT? - If A is town, then B is town.
On tie or lose, you get nothing.
Upgrades on win to:
On win:
TSS - If A is town, then B is scum.
TTS - If A is town, then C is scum.
TTT - If A is town, then B is town.
On tie or lose, you get nothing.
Upgrades on win to:
On win, you learn the alignment of your target.
On tie, your target learns your alignment.
On lose, you burnout this upgrade level.
Wisp - Town Protective - The Angel of Death
On win, you protect your target from kills this Round.
On tie, you get nothing.
On lose, you protect your target from kills this Round, but if they would have been killed, you die.
Upgrades on win to:
On win, you protect your target and another target of your choice from kills this Round, but if either would have been killed, you die.
On tie, you get nothing.
On lose, you protect your target and another target of their choice from kills this Round, but if either would have been killed, you die.
Upgrades on win to:
On win, you protect your target and another target of your choice from kills this Round.
On tie, you get nothing.
On lose, you reflect any kills this Round from your target back on the player who made them and burnout this upgrade level.
Pokechu - Town Chatless Packager - The Smuggler
On win, you get nothing.
On tie, you package your target. That player is in a box outside of the game and cannot act but can be acted upon.
On lose, you hide behind your target, outside of the game. If you would be targeted, they are targeted instead. If they would be killed, you both are killed.
Upgrades on win to:
On win, you hide behind and package your target. That player is in a box outside of the game and cannot act but can be acted upon. You are hiding behind them in the box. If you would be targeted, they are targeted instead. If they would be killed, you both are killed.
On tie or lose, you get nothing.
Upgrades on win to:
On win, you hide behind and package your target. That player is in a box outside of the game and cannot act but can be acted upon. You are hiding behind them in the box. If you would be targeted, they are targeted instead. If they would be killed, you both are killed.
On tie, you package your target. That player is in a box outside of the game and cannot act but can be acted upon.
On lose, you get nothing.
Highroller - Town Vigilante - The Decider
On lose or tie, you get nothing.
On win, you get a 1-shot Day Action that must target your target activated in thread by saying "Shoot: {playername}." You will have a 1 in 2 chance to attempt to kill your target.
Upgrades on win to:
On win or tie, you get nothing.
On lose, if your target is using a killing action, you attempt to kill them.
Upgrades on win to:
On win, you burnout this upgrade level and get a 1-shot Day Action that must target your target activated in thread by saying "Shoot: {playername}." You will attempt to kill your target.
On tie, you burnout this upgrade level and attempt to kill your target.
On lose, you get nothing.
Grapefruit21 - Town MMM - The Manipulator
On win, you get nothing.
On tie, you send your target a message of 70 characters or fewer.
On lose, you send your target a message of 140 characters or fewer.
Upgrades on win to:
On win, you send a dead player of your choice a message of 140 characters or fewer to which they may send one similarly-restricted message in response.
On tie, you send a dead player of your target's choice a message of 140 characters or fewer to which they may send one similarly-restricted message in response.
On lose, you get nothing.
Upgrades on win to:
On win, you and your target each send the thread a message of 140 characters or fewer (posted by the mod).
On win, you and your target each send the thread a message of 70 characters or fewer (posted by the mod).
On lose, you get nothing.
Gentleman Johnny - Mafia Chatless Alien - The Observer
Whenever you successfully block a player's action, you learn that player's role.
On win, you burnout this upgrade level.
On tie, you get nothing.
On lose, you prevent any actions your target would take.
Upgrades on win to:
On win, you get nothing.
On tie, you prevent any other actions that would target your target.
On lose, you prevent any actions your target would take.
Upgrades on win to:
On win, you prevent any other actions that would target your target and you prevent your target from taking actions. Once per game, you may kill your target as part of this action.
On tie, you prevent your target from taking actions.
On lose, you get nothing.
Rhand - Mafia Redirector - The Commander
You win any matches against players of a lower level.
No matter the result, you get nothing.
Upgrades on win or tie to:
On win, you redirect your target's actions to a single player of your choice.
On tie, you downgrade.
On lose, you redirect all actions that would target a player of your target's choice to your target.
Upgrades on win to:
On win, you redirect all actions this Night phase to your target.
On tie, you choose another target player and redirect all actions that would target each of your original target and your new target to the opposite of those two players.
On lose, you get nothing.
Thoughts to come.
(Oh, and Highroller loses two purple pony princess points for being impatient.)
@ZDS why did you vote Rhand? I said it in my chat but you voting Rhand right after I said I was leaning wanting to vote GJ toDay really threw me (Rhand's response rang alarm bells a bit too but I really thought GJ had to be scum here).
but thats ok, because apparently, it hints at the fact that I would die on a loss, if my target wasn't actually attacked
hence Angel of Death /s
It wasn't a hint, it was a useless piece of information, that completely throws how I use my ability, since I protected a wolf, thinking it would kill them
like don't give me a hint, if you are going to lie to me, or just make it a little ambigious
really? Angel of Death? Town Doctor?
More seriously, my only regrets this game are ousting Pokechu and not pointing the finger at Johnny for popping in then disappearing at the very end. I do blame the town for its tunnelling (come on, read 346 again with hindsight), however I understand I must be to blame since...
... this is the third game in a row where I, as town, trigger extremely hostile reactions from other townies, pretty much right from the start. There is something about me that irates people, and I haven't figured out what (I have ideas). It's not relative activity, it's not aggressiveness vs passiveness. It may be related to my lack of investment (what Pokechu called lazyness).
The result is I can only have fun (as town) by not caring what happens to me and who wins, and by becoming even less invested. I did try to take things serious during Day 1, and it was a horrible experience (mainly because of Highroller).
I have not explored all the ways to remediate that issue yet, but frankly if this keeps happening there may come a point I stop playing.
There, sorry about the negativity, I wanted that off my chest. I did have fun at the end, starting when I stopped giving a F.
@ZDS why did you vote Rhand? I said it in my chat but you voting Rhand right after I said I was leaning wanting to vote GJ toDay really threw me (Rhand's response rang alarm bells a bit too but I really thought GJ had to be scum here).
Because I had to vote scum and I had more certainty the team was Rhand/x than Johnny/x.
I had very little expectations of it working regardless. Even if I had voted Johnny, you may have voted him as well but HR would have most likely voted me.
you know what I find funny, how irrelevant my thoughts became after I died
mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Not at all, you inspired me to reconsider Johnny.
@Highroller This is the second game you have tunnelled me to death over something extremely minor. Is there actually a way to get you to stop tunneling? (One that actually works, don't say it's about making the right post if you are going to scum-read the post anyway.)
@Pokechu Sorry your first game here was so short, I was shortsighted and the scum-team's useful idiot. I hope you come back for more.
———
Re: Set-up: I think something less cryptic would have been better, such as telling players their role-type (protection, investigation... ) and telling us about the win/loss/draw mechanic.
The upgrade mechanic was a weird choice for a micro (and therefore short) game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I’m doing a reread today.
So you wouldn’t target the guy you’re gonna kill with another ability that sounds like it might prevent protection? And doesn’t give a possible track on you two targets? I mean... come on. We’re not dumb lol.
ZDS setting up a chainyeet on GJ/me with ate to Grape and HR and then that obvious “I would never do this as mafia” lie seals the deal on him.
Of course he doesn’t care if his buddy dies toDay as long as I die toMorrow.
I’m iso’ing everyone now to be sure I’m not confbiasing, but I’m pretty much sold that that is the solution.
About the claims:
GJ: win vs Rhand, upgrade and burn
Rhand: win vs Grape, loss vs GJ, upgrade
Grape: loss vs ZDS, loss vs Rhand, message
ZDS: ? vs Last, win vs Grape, win vs HR
HR: loss vs ZDS, upgrade
If there is logic to the upgrades, then I think Last targeted HR and lost, giving HR a win/loss and the same upgrade result as me.
So LW rock at HR, giving ZDS a loss/win/win. I think. If no one lied.
It’s the same thing that I cleared that team possibility for. Do you really think that the buddy’s hand was forced at that point? Why?
Extrapolating that, do you think it excludes GJ / ZDS because GJ did not vote ZDS there?
I iso’d GJ and can’t find anything. If he’s mafia, he played a very clean game.
The only thing is that if he is mafia, Wisp was onto him and died. But that’s a bunch of wine.
As far as a combo with ZDS goes: he defended ZDS a lot. That one post still bugs me though because why would you ever tell your buddy that you won’t attack him IN THREAD. It makes no sense.
Still have the Grape iso to do but need a break. I hope meanwhile some of you post to break my stringposts lol.
Now that's a hot take. If the scum team is Johnny and I, why would we try a "chainyeet" bussing gamble when we could gang up on literally anyone and win the game toDay?
In addition, why would I not maintain my town read on Johnny from yesterDay? Nobody would bat an eye at it, I would show some consistency and he and I would have no need to run the world's most pointless gamble.
You could maybe argue Johnny is bussing me for safety, since I am the top scum read by a margin. The other way around makes no sense.
Reason #1 is because my scumread on him ran its course. Early on he didn't seem as convinced by his own arguments as he was in Snow White, but as time went on he showed more and more conviction.
Reason #2 is because he's been so hostile to Grape and Johnny (and me), his only possible scumbuddy is you. I am not entirely discounting that option, but I find it less likely than you+Johnny How the heck do you read "doorman" and think "it might prevent protection"?
What did you think it would do?
Who would you and GJ gang up on then if you wanted to keep townreading each other? That would mean accusing 2 towns together and you would need the third to side with you or have the two turn on each other. That would be extremely hard to pull off.
Dropping the HR scumread is the easy way out since Grape and me won’t lynch him.
You said in 242 that you would continue the discussion with HR on Day 2.
HR made 0 posts after that on Day 1 besides a twilight post to Snoopy.
You decided overNight, while skipping him in your reread, that you were wrong. Your explanation doesn’t add up.
My worldview is that Johnny and you were expecting toDay to be a breeze, with Grape and HR voting me, me voting HR and the two of you waiting for a chance to hammer.
Meanwhile, I did my best to reset my reads after Pokechu's misbonk. After I had been proven wrong once, I had all the reasons in the world not to go back on my one-man crusade as if nothing had happened.
As a result I changed my reads out of apparently nowhere, and now you and Johnny both have to fit me into pairings that make zero sense, round-peg-in-square-hole style. Credits to Highroller as well for not going after my throat as soon as the Day started.
I may be wrong. Maybe Grape is pulling the wool over my eyes, maybe I am too forgiving towards HR. Despite this uncertainty, I stand by the first paragraph of this post.
We need others to chime in now.
Show me why Highroller and Grape are more “proactive” than me. It’s just a buzzword you threw in with no reasoning. And it doesn’t mesh with your previous Highroller view at all + you said you didn’t even reread Highroller.
We could go back in time and undo nearly all your posts and absolutely nothing would change, the exact same events would happen at the exact same time. The exception is #25, and only because it was the start of a chain reaction.
The same cannot be said of Grape and HR's posts. Regarding HR in particular, I have no idea why you are implying I viewed him as not proactive, especially considering my scumread on him was an OMGUS reaction to his (both very proactive and very wrong) attacks on me.
By the way, I still remember HR and Grape's play even if I did not reread them. I don't have Alzheimer's yet.
If you are town then where am I wrong? Who is scum instead of you?
And did you really reread the game and come up with "ZDS setting up a chainyeet on GJ/[you]" as your best take?
Like I pointed out earlier, I make the least sense out of anyone as anyone else's buddy.
The only way you can fit me in a scum-pairing is to come up with a theory that, itself, is only justified by being the only way you can fit me in a scum-pairing.
If you are town, you should realise how wrong that is. If you are scum... keep going I guess.
He works in the most possible teams, Wisp was scum reading him, he doesn't have anything in his iso that makes me hesitate.
See, these two things don't mesh. I had not only Poke as a wolf but LW as a likely candidate. If I was wrong on one, I figured Grape was the most likely partner based on just not posting, but I for 1): I can't believe you can safe with a straight face Grape has been proactive. It's an awful read from you at best.
But to my point from the above, if I am town, and my team blew up in my face in the morning, why wouldn't I forget everything I know and try to figure it out? You just played a wolf game with as town where I did exactly the same thing, and proceeded to correctly 180 you and YMC. In this game, why wouldn't I re-evaluate and try to figure out where I went wrong, instead of going after Grape (who you think is town) also while having HR as a back up. That seems to be a much easier path for me as a wolf for victory, rather than trying to turn on Rhand who was leaning town, and you (who I was reading town)
My issue with your long winded post is that you aren't trying to see the game from a GJ town perspective. Rhand calling my game clean, but still hedging that I might be a wolf is lolable at best, and I have no idea how Grape can see that and still go "WeLl, GJ mAkEs ThE mOsT sEnSe." It's utterly ridiculous.
I have no idea where HR this game right now, other than imagining he is pulling his hair out trying to figure claims.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Rereading day. Just wanted to post that first.
I tried to clear myself out of respect for those who care about the game more than I do, it's the least I can do since my reads aren't strong (neither subjectively nor objectively) and I'm in the eye of the storm.
If I cannot remove myself from the POE pool despite being the player least likely to be scum with anyone else, so be it.
Instead, let's start some action.
Vote: Rhand
Him and me are in basically every seriously suggested scum-pairing IIRC, especially me. So it's likely at least one of us is scum.
If we are both town, then he gets double-hammered and we lose and I suck. This would mean the scum-team is GJ/GF or GF/HR or HR/GJ, in which case the entire town sucks.
If he doesn't get double-hammered, then like I said at least one of us has to be scum (hint: it's not me).
Which means it's a duel:
— In the red corner, Rhand with his signature attack, the "circular logic punch",
VERSUS
— In the blue corner, ZeDorkSlipeur with his signature attack, "kicking himself in the low-hanging fruits".
———
I'll be back in several hours, have fun screaming at me.
Definitely prefered GJ today. Don't know what this vote means... I guess it's now ZDS or Rhand.
Guess the ball is rolling then.
vote ZDS
Funny how you vote me in your “scum duo” and not GJ, who Grape just said he wanted to lynch. ZDS/GJ pairing confirmed.
I’m really of a mixed opinion with regards to Grape. On the one hand, the post that rubs me the wrong way was his defending ZDS’ process specifically with regards LastWhisper, which, actually, upon rereading the part in question, yeah, that part, in-and-of itself, is fine. It’s actually one of the least problematic things ZDS has posted.
But then he makes posts like these:
And I don’t understand where he gets this. I have no idea how anyone can justify ZDS’s vote on Rhand.
I don’t know who I think is the second-most suspicious person. Really going to have to sleep on this.
Questions:
1. How good is LastWhisper’s track record on reading GJ really?
2.
Who was the other one?
3.
Go over why again?
4.
Explain the story behind this post. You never actually asked me a question.
5. Grape, explain the vote dance with regards to ZDS on posts #173 and #182.
6.
Why him over you?
7.
Why?
In fact, actually this goes for everyone. Make the argument for your opinions on ZDS/Rhand, ZDS/Grape, and ZDS/GJ. Explain why things make sense vs. why you think they don’t.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Which means the scum team is confirmed to not be GF/HR. It could technically be GF/RH or RH/HR since they wouldn't be able to double-hammer.
———
As a side note, if anyone still wants to know why I didn't reread Grape and Highroller, it's because I tend to fall into the following trap myself:
If I'm tunneling a player, which includes town-tunneling, no amount of rereading them is going to make me change my mind.
On rare occasions I have an epiphany and realise something I was not understanding about them, but most of the time the only way I get out of a tunnel is by listening to other players.
Unfortunately nobody is vouching for me .
———
As another side note, if anyone here is trying to figure out who to bury after burying me, don't, that's pointless. You will find out why if you bury me.
FOS: ZDS
I don't know. I think it's decent but not the immaculate record he claims. I'd weight it more than a random strong read but not a lock on it's own by any means.
The scum ping on Rhand was over the busy work about the mechanics. I felt that for Rhand it was slightly out of character and felt like presence for presence sake.
The town read on Wisp was for his flavor claim. He loves a claim but as scum I think he would have done something with it. As for you it was your frustration about mechanics. I think it comes across differently if you're in a scum chat.
I'd thought I'd formed this as a question and not a statement.
I wanted you to talk about what you thought a decider did and then dropped it when I began to more firmly town read you.
I'm not sure what else there is to explain. I got spooked by Pokechu's town read on me and wanted to unvote to slow the wagon on ZDS, then their explanation placated me but I didn't want to place a second vote back on ZDS right away.
? Do you mean Rhand or GJ? I was trying to bluff GJ since I thought he was scum and for Rhand I was trying to extend an olive branch because I didn't overly care where I claimed.
You can figure out Rhand vs GJ tomorrow. I'd lean towards GJ because I don't think ZDS/Rhand super make sense as partners because of RVS but that is very weak. But the voting now has a whiff of scum cross voting desperation to it (though makes less sense as I'd just signaled I was about to vote GJ).
I'm off to bed now.
I wouldn't rule out ZDS/Rhand. To be perfectly honest, I kind of have the rest of you not-ZDS/not-me's on the same tier. Every time I think one of you does something suspicious, you then do something that's more mafia, or vice-versa.
There is a thing I'd like to ask you, Grape. Why did you feel ZDS's vote on Rhand was fine? That's the thing I can't get about you.
Vote ZDS.
If there's a tomorrow in this game, good luck town.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
@HR the vote on Rhand in RVS was fine because Rhand is better than busy work even in RVS. He should have been pressured over it. ZDS picked a bad example of busy work so it was only fine but the point of Rhand not moving the game was accurate.
I don't but if we lost (and GJ's silent hammer makes me think we did) outside of you slow rolling like a crazy person it has to be GJ/Rhand from my POV.
Well, it's 5 PM PST. Guess we'll find out in a bit.
ZeDorkSlipeur (3) - Rhand, Highroller, Gentleman Johnny
Rhand (1) - ZeDorkSlipeur
Not Voting: Grapefruit21
ZeDorkSlipeur has been kicked. They were... Town Monty Hall Cop ("The Doorman")
Town can no longer win, as mafia has reached parity.
Setup Reminder:
ZDS - Town Monty Hall Cop - "The Doorman"
If you are protected, you are roleblocked.
Wisp - Town Protective - "The Angel of Death"
Pokechu - Town Packager - "The Smuggler"
Highroller - Town Vigilante - "The Decider"
Grapefruit21 - Town MMM - "The Manipulator"
Gentleman Johnny - Mafia Alien - "The Observer"
Whenever you successfully block a player's action, you learn that player's role.
Rhand - Mafia Redirector - "The Commander"
Wins against lower level.
Wisp - Town Protective - The Angel of Death
Pokechu - Town Chatless Packager - The Smuggler
Highroller - Town Vigilante - The Decider
Grapefruit21 - Town MMM - The Manipulator
Gentleman Johnny - Mafia Chatless Alien - The Observer
Rhand - Mafia Redirector - The Commander
Thoughts to come.
(Oh, and Highroller loses two purple pony princess points for being impatient.)
Damn, it was GJ/Rhand. Alas.
Good game everyone.
mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
@GJ
still lov ya buddy
-----
This game was an interesting concept, I would have loved it if we had 12 or more people in it so we could have explored the concept more.
And for the record, my role was a vig.
Angel of Death, actually the town doctor, k...
hence Angel of Death /s
It wasn't a hint, it was a useless piece of information, that completely throws how I use my ability, since I protected a wolf, thinking it would kill them
like don't give me a hint, if you are going to lie to me, or just make it a little ambigious
really? Angel of Death? Town Doctor?
More seriously, my only regrets this game are ousting Pokechu and not pointing the finger at Johnny for popping in then disappearing at the very end. I do blame the town for its tunnelling (come on, read 346 again with hindsight), however I understand I must be to blame since...
... this is the third game in a row where I, as town, trigger extremely hostile reactions from other townies, pretty much right from the start. There is something about me that irates people, and I haven't figured out what (I have ideas). It's not relative activity, it's not aggressiveness vs passiveness. It may be related to my lack of investment (what Pokechu called lazyness).
The result is I can only have fun (as town) by not caring what happens to me and who wins, and by becoming even less invested. I did try to take things serious during Day 1, and it was a horrible experience (mainly because of Highroller).
I have not explored all the ways to remediate that issue yet, but frankly if this keeps happening there may come a point I stop playing.
There, sorry about the negativity, I wanted that off my chest. I did have fun at the end, starting when I stopped giving a F.
———
Because I had to vote scum and I had more certainty the team was Rhand/x than Johnny/x.
I had very little expectations of it working regardless. Even if I had voted Johnny, you may have voted him as well but HR would have most likely voted me.
Not at all, you inspired me to reconsider Johnny.
@Highroller This is the second game you have tunnelled me to death over something extremely minor. Is there actually a way to get you to stop tunneling? (One that actually works, don't say it's about making the right post if you are going to scum-read the post anyway.)
@Pokechu Sorry your first game here was so short, I was shortsighted and the scum-team's useful idiot. I hope you come back for more.
———
Re: Set-up: I think something less cryptic would have been better, such as telling players their role-type (protection, investigation... ) and telling us about the win/loss/draw mechanic.
The upgrade mechanic was a weird choice for a micro (and therefore short) game.