It'd be like starting another Day 1 with two or three dead people
Except, if one of those dead people were guaranteed to be\ one of the 4-5 hostiles we need to kill in order to win, then that's just objectively better for the town.
We have 18 players, which means either 14 towns and 4 hostiles or 13 towns and 5 hostiles. If you want to phrase it as "staring another Day 1," then it's starting another Day 1, except with the numbers changed to 13 towns and 3 hostiles or 12 towns and 4 hostiles. That's better than what we have now.
And, for the umpteeth time, all of this is assuming that LastWhisper isn't lying and is mafia, which is not safe to assume given that there are at least two games in which the mafia did exactly that same strategy. Were he to turn out to be mafia, then we'd have a ****ton of information and the mafia would be in some serious *****.
So we have an action that either will make things either demonstratively better or unbelievably better, with absolutely no drawback. There is zero logical reason not to take this.
Who the hell cares what they did in another game, the context matters, I don't know anything about ghostbusters, and rhands claim was God awful from what Osie said, lol
I have been fully transparent, and well in my town meta lol
It'd be like starting another Day 1 with two or three dead people
Except, if one of those dead people were guaranteed to be\ one of the 4-5 hostiles we need to kill in order to win, then that's just objectively better for the town.
We have 18 players, which means either 14 towns and 4 hostiles or 13 towns and 5 hostiles. If you want to phrase it as "staring another Day 1," then it's starting another Day 1, except with the numbers changed to 13 towns and 3 hostiles or 12 towns and 4 hostiles. That's better than what we have now.
And, for the umpteeth time, all of this is assuming that LastWhisper isn't lying and is mafia, which is not safe to assume given that there are at least two games in which the mafia did exactly that same strategy. Were he to turn out to be mafia, then we'd have a ****ton of information and the mafia would be in some serious *****.
So we have an action that either will make things either demonstratively better or unbelievably better, with absolutely no drawback. There is zero logical reason not to take this.
Do you seriously believe that mafia hands out explosive charms and claim they do so Day 1?
Talking about me still is a waste of time, if we can't come to a conclusion at EoD just vote me and move on, but you will be moving on with 0 information, and a Mafia team that is still strong, probably stronger in worlds where one of them is my target and wants me dead as well
Maybe it's just me but I don't really consider neutral begnigns to be anti-town, but I do think I would have to not be in the game for town to win, so I guess me that is a point against me.
Anyways this was my last break so I'll see you all in 3 hours maybe
Highroller claimed to be Wisp’s target. If a mafia would do that, he should be damn sure that Wisp can get lynched toDay. Because he painted a huge “take my vitality” sign on his head. I mean iso Highroller. He keeps repeating Wisp’s job is to kill town. That’s because Highroller is town and a target. I’m pretty sure there.
About the interacting and proportional reads: I tend to focus. I do develop a broad sense of the gamestate meanwhile, but my own efforts are focused on 1-2 people at a time. I spent a lot of (wasted) energy on Wisp here.
I also rely on my gut a lot.
Okay but, counterpoint
Why would you ever say this out loud if you think Highroller is a villager
You're telling Wisp one of the villagers he needs to kill to achieve his wincon
Highroller said it. #503. Highroller has 9 posts. You could have looked before smearing me Silver. Why didn’t you?
Why would I, your post doesn't say "Highroller claimed he was one of Wisp's targets" it says this:
"That’s because Highroller is town and a target. I’m pretty sure there."
Which sounds like you're guessing about it not that you think he already claimed to be Witted or whatever
Also reading #503 he seems to just be complaining about Wisp saying he was the next target, not claiming to be Witted, so like
Talking about me still is a waste of time, if we can't come to a conclusion at EoD just vote me and move on, but you will be moving on with 0 information, and a Mafia team that is still strong, probably stronger in worlds where one of them is my target and wants me dead as well
To be fair this is your own fault, your claim was unnecessary, ill timed and illogical. What did you think would happen?
Re: numbers there is very close to zero chance of five wolves unless Wisp is one of them
4 + killing 3rd party is roughly average for 18; 5 is likely to be too many unless they have two goons or something; 5 + killing 3rd party is pretty wolf sided, leaning towards impossible to balance with roles
~pretty sure this holds even if the 3rd party is like, effectively just and even night killer or something
I've fallen a bit behind, but skimming the thread I see we're still on LW. I would just like to say that I generally agree with where HR is coming from, but I also would much rather keep hunting mafia then elim a 3rd party. His ability is on the table and semi-confirmed, so he can't operate without our knowledge. If he uses it on someone we don't want him to use it on, we will know before he can pull the trigger.
I don't understand his motivations for coming out, which makes me suspicious, but when I read his posts they read as genuine to me. I'm inclined to trust my gut and believe he is telling the truth. So yeah, throw my vote on to the time-to-move-on pile.
On the subject of things that aren't going anywhere, it's obvious at this point we're not gonna be getting a sloth wagon going any time soon. I was really hoping Az would have something to ad to that, but he's clearly preoccupied(Congrats btw ). And looking at the posts he listed, even I fail to see how a lot of those posts register as anything.
I'm going to do some rereading tonight/tomorrow and see if I can get behind any of the other prospective wagons.
Do you seriously believe that mafia hands out explosive charms and claim they do so Day 1?
Why not? You did this exact same gambit and it paid off, and it's been done more than once before. Why not do it Day One? Especially when the convention on this site seems to be to not lynch people who claim neutral day one?
Re: numbers there is very close to zero chance of five wolves unless Wisp is one of them
4 + killing 3rd party is roughly average for 18; 5 is likely to be too many unless they have two goons or something; 5 + killing 3rd party is pretty wolf sided, leaning towards impossible to balance with roles
~pretty sure this holds even if the 3rd party is like, effectively just and even night killer or something
If you believe that 4 mafia + 1 killing party is a normal amount for 18, that means we have 13 towns vs. 4 mafia, which is hard enough to win without a spanner in the works. This is just all the more reason to remove the third party as soon as possible.
Talking about me still is a waste of time, if we can't come to a conclusion at EoD just vote me and move on, but you will be moving on with 0 information, and a Mafia team that is still strong, probably stronger in worlds where one of them is my target and wants me dead as well
To be fair this is your own fault, your claim was unnecessary, ill timed and illogical. What did you think would happen?
idk leave me alone lol, like I said I hate 3rd party roles, they barely ever win, clarity from the start is probably my fairest chance contrary to popular belief
^ hey Wisp does Rhand make a read like that as mafia.
IDK why you asked me, and I don't see why that specific post couldn't come from mafia? is it like super dumb? or too obscure?
kinda late but just noticed this, don't really have much to say, curious what Circles comes back with, still waiting for Chad's replacement, Azreal is probably a bit busy, but still left a bad taste in my mouth, especially his iso post, since he was just wrong there.
Still waiting for Bur to say some real thoughts as well
I'll try at some point to get some deeper thoughts out, since the chance of me surviving past day 2, pretty much depends on me burying mafia honestly
also my last post was kinda toxic, didn't mean to word it like that, but like the whole 12/4 is kinda hard is weird given that is very common, and highly dependent on many factors, mechanics, skill, etc
@Highroller: an extra killing role is less likely on mafia than an inventor.
And I didn’t claim a killing role in my last game (which was on MC, not here).
Are you going to refuse hunting for mafia meanwhile?
@Wisp how much stock do you put in other player’s theories of how to play mafia?
Who would be your main rolemodels / players you have most respect for?
@Highroller: an extra killing role is less likely on mafia than an inventor.
And I didn’t claim a killing role in my last game (which was on MC, not here).
Are you going to refuse hunting for mafia meanwhile?
Rhand, you can't simultaneously spend almost half your post disagreeing with a person's mafia read and then accuse them of not looking for mafia.
Just because LastWhisper made it really obvious he's not town doesn't mean you should as well.
For the record, we are not tied up at the hospital, we are back home waiting again.
I really, really agree we shouldn't be chasing after LW at this point.
If he takes his shots as we require, he's an asset. His flavor makes perfect sense for his claim and his neutral role - the hedge mage was a villain in only one or two of the books, and was focused on killing people with the Wit, the ability to speak with animals.The group responsible for that was not one of the major villain groups in the series.
Behaviorally, yes, I completely get the murder train sentiment, I saw it too. But we have a whole satisfactory explanation with that neutral semi-killing role alignment. I doubt that's fake, unless we see some funky flavor when mafia members start flipping that makes it look more like a hodge podge of disparate villains from multiple storylines. But again, the flavor fit on this claim is very impressive, and since this is a relatively obscure series, and a pretty obscure character within it, this doesn't seem at all like a d1 mafia fake claim. The ability/flavor combo reads far more like something a mod devised after a lot of time and thought, and I'm comfortable believing it's true.
We have a unique advantage here compared to normal/actual killing roles. LW's role is verifiable. We hear from those involved who lost vitality, and who didn't. If he steps out of line, it's very evident.
Two, we don't have to worry much about him going suddenly rogue - his ability takes too much time to kill people for him to surprise us by suddenly striking a non-suspicious target. He should only be after people we have prepped to be able to murder on demand, as it suits us.
Third, it gives us late game kill potentiality without fully committing us. We can prep multiple deaths of POE trees, without having to pull the trigger until later phases, when we will have maximized our information and can hit more accurately.
This is an unprecedented advantage for the town, and we should exploit it, gleefully.
@Highroller: an extra killing role is less likely on mafia than an inventor.
And I didn’t claim a killing role in my last game (which was on MC, not here).
Are you going to refuse hunting for mafia meanwhile?
Rhand, you can't simultaneously spend almost half your post disagreeing with a person's mafia read and then accuse them of not looking for mafia.
Just because LastWhisper made it really obvious he's not town doesn't mean you should as well.
has he realllllllllllllllllly though? he has continued to push things and change opinions and state thoughts, where your second post was literally, Last claimed 3p, Bur kinda bad, and Beat the dead horse GJ. Link to me where in any post afterwards you talked about anything that wasn't me? outside calling FoS on Vaimes and Rhand for siding with a 3p, which is an overall bad take
@Rhand
uhhm well given how many times I've caught mafia and be told I am wrong, makes me hate post players, I do respect your game.
@Rhand
in a more general aspect, I respect players that can put out a voice at all times in the game, are level-headed, have a decent mixture of seriousness and fluff
Thing is with sloth is that he’s an easy push. His posts often times look like he’s just combing the thread looking for posts he can ask questions about and they look like easy questions that don’t often seem like they’re actual scumhunting questions. Or at least that’s my take. I believe he ends up getting lynched day one a lot for his style regardless of his alignment.
I have him as a town lean because as of right now I don’t think he has an agenda.
Comments on this? Is Sloth doing everything except scum hunting effectively NAI for him?
IDK why you asked me, and I don't see why that specific post couldn't come from mafia? is it like super dumb? or too obscure?
kinda late but just noticed this, don't really have much to say, curious what Circles comes back with, still waiting for Chad's replacement, Azreal is probably a bit busy, but still left a bad taste in my mouth, especially his iso post, since he was just wrong there.
Still waiting for Bur to say some real thoughts as well
I'll try at some point to get some deeper thoughts out, since the chance of me surviving past day 2, pretty much depends on me burying mafia honestly
also my last post was kinda toxic, didn't mean to word it like that, but like the whole 12/4 is kinda hard is weird given that is very common, and highly dependent on many factors, mechanics, skill, etc
I just asked because you were around and seemed null on Rhand.
Thought the Silver read he gave was like, a little over the top to be faked.
@Rhand
in a more general aspect, I respect players that can put out a voice at all times in the game, are level-headed, have a decent mixture of seriousness and fluff
I take most of my playstyle from GH, and Newcomb
Thx. Reason I asked is because there’s 1 player notorious for wanting to sell mafia roles as neutral and I was worried you had him in your list but you don’t.
IDK why you asked me, and I don't see why that specific post couldn't come from mafia? is it like super dumb? or too obscure?
kinda late but just noticed this, don't really have much to say, curious what Circles comes back with, still waiting for Chad's replacement, Azreal is probably a bit busy, but still left a bad taste in my mouth, especially his iso post, since he was just wrong there.
Still waiting for Bur to say some real thoughts as well
I'll try at some point to get some deeper thoughts out, since the chance of me surviving past day 2, pretty much depends on me burying mafia honestly
also my last post was kinda toxic, didn't mean to word it like that, but like the whole 12/4 is kinda hard is weird given that is very common, and highly dependent on many factors, mechanics, skill, etc
I just asked because you were around and seemed null on Rhand.
Thought the Silver read he gave was like, a little over the top to be faked.
I mean sure that's a read that's too big for my brain, but I think there are better things in terms of Rhand looking good, it all just depends on how easily u think he can fake these interactions. Rhand in my opinion doesn't live in a black and white world of always doing the same stuff, he looks at things, analyzes them, and then moves forward from there
He has already found a few different things to latch onto, which looks good, more so than Highroller, speaking of which I don't really like Highroller's shade on Rhand
the same can be said about Sloth (to a way higher degree than Rhand), he has poked at a lot of stuff, which looks good in my eyes, since it's not impossible but somewhat difficult depending on the player to be able to naturally attack multiple posts and players if you are a wolf
Thing is with sloth is that he’s an easy push. His posts often times look like he’s just combing the thread looking for posts he can ask questions about and they look like easy questions that don’t often seem like they’re actual scumhunting questions. Or at least that’s my take. I believe he ends up getting lynched day one a lot for his style regardless of his alignment.
I have him as a town lean because as of right now I don’t think he has an agenda.
Comments on this? Is Sloth doing everything except scum hunting effectively NAI for him?
I’m not sure how much I believe what I thought anymore. Except that he gets lynched day one often for his style; he did mention that and the two games I played with him he was lynched day one - one time town, one time scum. But both were about a year or so ago.
So while yes I do think he’s an easy push for style, I’m not sure I should put faith in my thought that he lacks agenda and that leans town. The people more familiar with him seem not to be bothered though so :/
@Rhand
in a more general aspect, I respect players that can put out a voice at all times in the game, are level-headed, have a decent mixture of seriousness and fluff
I take most of my playstyle from GH, and Newcomb
Thx. Reason I asked is because there’s 1 player notorious for wanting to sell mafia roles as neutral and I was worried you had him in your list but you don’t.
ya IDK who you are talking about lol, I can't recall such a person
@Azreal
again, trying to sell me as useful neutral is kinda moot since Highroller is living in a world where I can easily be mafia based on the way I handle his earlier posts, he is pretty much refusing to acknowledge my posts
Highroller's earlier case on my removing the 3p claim is
1. A completely illogical emotional jump from literally one question
2. Using real-world time as an arguement
3. Arguing shade which never happened
4. Omgus
the fact that I am claiming 3p actually means nothing in his argument, it's just another means to an end
though I am curious how he feels about Angel and Survivor claims
Vaimes
Tammy
KJ Rhand Silver
Sloth Wisp
-gap-
Iso
GJ
Cuth
-bigger gap-
Highroller?
[who cares]
Cantrip Bur WMU
Chad
I dig it
but like the two people being voted right now I think? Azreal and Circles, ended up where? in the who cares? or?
since who cares would be you know, weird? if they are trains
WMU I read based on how illogical her pushes are, not the quantity, so like its a fine spot, but probably not someone I would want to vote as it stands
WMU I read based on how illogical her pushes are, not the quantity, so like its a fine spot, but probably not someone I would want to vote as it stands
Yeah, I only have her that low because the posts she has made haven't been anything needle-moving. I probably won't make an Actual Decision until much closer to deadline.
Vaimes
Tammy
KJ Rhand Silver
Sloth Wisp
-gap-
Iso
GJ
Cuth
-bigger gap-
Highroller?
[who cares]
Cantrip Bur WMU
Chad
pretty close to where I’m at, but I feel better about cuth, maybe worse about sloth but not by much, and I think better about cantrip. He’s mostly null for me. Why do you have him that low?
Don’t know about high roller. I didn’t like his first post much, mostly just gut but I liked his second post well enough but right now I’m just tired of the distraction which makes him difficult to place.
Vaimes
Tammy
KJ Rhand Silver
Sloth Wisp
-gap-
Iso
GJ
Cuth
-bigger gap-
Highroller?
[who cares]
Cantrip Bur WMU
Chad
pretty close to where I’m at, but I feel better about cuth, maybe worse about sloth but not by much, and I think better about cantrip. He’s mostly null for me. Why do you have him that low?
Don’t know about high roller. I didn’t like his first post much, mostly just gut but I liked his second post well enough but right now I’m just tired of the distraction which makes him difficult to place.
Oh burs mostly null too.
I'm taking his first post as NAI, I don't have a wolf game to prove otherwise, and every town game I've found on this site so far, he entered the same way
As for his second post outside his evaluation of me, ya it was ok
Posting this seperately because the tags were broken otherwise.
@Tammy: Have you formed an opinion on GJ yet? You were kinda going back and forth trying to clarify what he was thinking... did that do anything for you?
@Cuth: I think I know why you're townleaning Tammy, but spell it out a bit for me. Is it tone?
@Rhand: I was actually scum in a Micro recently. With tom. The most recent Token. Not in a regular game for quite a while though
@Wisp: I was meaning to ask you: Do you have any entrance based reads?
Also I recall you saying you could easliy read Chad. Is he scum or no?
@CropCircles: So, Sloth makes the same point that I do, and he's shading you. Why am I not in that same boat?
I stopped doing that, since they aren't anything I can really push, but GFs and High roller have the worst entrances by far, and gun to my head, Shinichi is probably town
I am also not a fan of going straight to, "Everyone expects so much", so early, but that could easily just be a personality thing, since I would and have done that prematurely as town before.
Personally I like Vaimes' PoE, I don't expect too much from Silver since he is only human, and has been wrong on me before, and others. I am just looking at how he goes about saying his thoughts from a meta standpoint, which I like so far
Killjoy is going about asking questions that don't feel like busywork.
I am also pretty sad that Highroller never came back with thoughts
How about this, you do your thing
And I want Highrollers thoughts
unvote: GJ vote: Highroller
"The Highroller shade never happened! Also I threw shade at Highroller three times in a single page for no good reason. Also I've admitted that I go after low posters and Highroller had only one post at the time - BUT THAT'S NOT SHADE AND HE'S BEING SO MEAN!"
Yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and keep making sense. Maybe someone in the town will sober up.
@Highroller: an extra killing role is less likely on mafia than an inventor.
And I didn’t claim a killing role in my last game (which was on MC, not here).
Are you going to refuse hunting for mafia meanwhile?
Rhand, you can't simultaneously spend almost half your post disagreeing with a person's mafia read and then accuse them of not looking for mafia.
Just because LastWhisper made it really obvious he's not town doesn't mean you should as well.
I'm trying to get you to talk about other things than Wisp because, in case you didn't notice, more than half the game thinks he's neutral and doesn't want to lynch him, and you're singularly focused on just him.
And while I spend a lot of time talking to you, I am also developing other reads.
Clearly idk how to deal with pressure, this is just the DLP game all over, so I'm just gonna take a small mental break, since we still have so much time
See, except, that’s the thing, Rhand, I don’t buy that you actually are scumhunting. I don't believe anything you say comes organically.
Every single thing you’ve done this game has had either no explanation or a paper-thin one that collapses on immediate scrutiny of why you don’t apply your logic to other situations, resulting in you only being able to say, “Uh, well, this is different, somehow”
Like, let's look at the things you've done this game (aside from speaking like a pirate and forgetting previous games you’ve been in). Let’s dive in, shall we?
You’ve repeatedly expressed your belief that GJ is town, with your only explanation being that he’s frustrated. When Slothful pointed out that GJ gets frustrated as mafia? Oh, well, um, this is different somehow! It’s a different kind of frustrated! (No, seriously guys, go back and read his posts. This is not parody, it’s what he actually says.)
You vote LastWhisper with no explanation, and say that you found him suspicious up until he posted his neutrality, after which you make this post:
I believe Wisp. I just finished a game co-hosted by him where I claimed neutral as mafia and Wisp was very adamant that that claim should have gotten me lynched. Him claiming neutral as mafia right after would be extremely weird.
Mafia will know what that ability is he’s looking for since they’ll have multiples of the same mechanic related ability Wisp is talking about unless he has only 1 mafia target in his grouping of 5. Might as well full claim @Wisp so town knows too.
unvote
This logic makes no sense whatsoever. You say that you just played a game in which you were a mafia claiming a neutral and it worked brilliantly, that Wisp was adamant to lynch you and yet the town failed to, and therefore Wisp cannot possibly be attempting he same thing.
That… Does not hold water at all. And it makes no sense that you would immediately, instantaneously defend LastWhisper and take everything he says at face value, which is what you’ve proceeded to do.
to be fair, I think in 99.9% of my scum games, I have made up a role lmao
Later, you vote CropCircles without any explanation whatsoever (Post #473), and then proceed to ask the rest of the town why they haven’t voted CropCircles yet and how you should have voted CropCircles after unviting Wisp (#479), again without any explanation whatsoever.
Whatever conviction you seem to have had towards CropCircles being mafia must have dissolved pretty quickly, because you subsequently vote Tubba after Tubba votes LastWhisper for admitting being a non-town. When you’re asked why you didn’t also express any suspicion of me, when I did the exact same thing, your response was to at first claim ignorance of my posting, and then later coming back with your favorite refrain, “Well, umm, Highroller is different! He’s doing the exact same thing, but it’s the way he’s doing it!”
In fact, you do it twice in the same post. You also respond to GJ expressing that he doesn’t understand why you’re going against Tubba because he does the exact same thing with the same statement. “Well, umm, the way GJ does it is totally different!”
Bizarrely, you later state in 716 that you consider CropCircles more suspicious than Tubba. Despite still voting Tubba. And giving no reasoning other than “gut feeling” to be suspicious of CropCircles. This is after previously asking the entire town why they’re not voting CropCircles.
And from there comes the chain of responses to me and my push on LastWhisper, which again is filled with nonsense-logic (“No, you guys, lynching a town is BETTER than killing a confirmed hostile!”) and “But this is different somehow!”
Also, whatever the hell this is, it’s not suspicious but I just find it funny:
About the interacting and proportional reads: I tend to focus. I do develop a broad sense of the gamestate meanwhile, but my own efforts are focused on 1-2 people at a time. I spent a lot of (wasted) energy on Wisp here.
I'm trying to get you to talk about other things than Wisp because, in case you didn't notice, more than half the game thinks he's neutral and doesn't want to lynch him, and you're singularly focused on just him.
And while I spend a lot of time talking to you, I am also developing other reads.
… I think I already know what your response is going to be. Let me guess, “But this is different, somehow”?
Highroller though, in my opinion falls into the trap of wanting to lynch a 3p claim first. There was no shade anywhere in my posts towards Highroller, his first post was mediocre, and he didn't come back, and then he reacts with omgus disguised as a real vote
Idk anything about him meta-wise, personally it just feels like a cop-out wolf excuse to vote, we are rehashing the same points on GJ over and over at this point I believe, his comment on Sloth is pretty NAI for me
I believe Wisp. I just finished a game co-hosted by him where I claimed neutral as mafia and Wisp was very adamant that that claim should have gotten me lynched.
So why consistently react with either suspicion, hysterics, or a combination of both when I'm adamant that you should be lynched?
how did that happen? because my brain dislikes Bur in correlation with other peoples thoughts, and I equated that to your 2nd post, without actually rereading it, so ya, contradiction I guess?
anyways I'm taking a two-day break, but thanks for asking me a question
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Highroller
What is the second question though, it looks like it's for Rhand? are you asking why I get emotional? I reacted with suspicion because I hate hyper-aggressive playstyles, and I had very little run-ins with them that tend to be town
outside the DLP game where I butted heads with Gemma who decided to treat me like crap, but ended up being town
also so back reading a few games, and I've noticed that highroller always comes in with a flavor claim in his first post, I checked two other games on this site.
@Highroller
do you have a wolf game anywhere on this site?
still dislike his response to my claim, but there are definitely more palpable options
unvote: Highroller vote: Azreal
He needs to respond to Iso, because based on my own analysis his claim makes not much sense in regards to Iso's lean list. That fact that Tubba also doesn't have a scum lean is definitely not something I like
also I certainly care who gets flipped for the most part, but at the end of the day I asked to be on that train once we come to a consensus, and in that regards is less of me decision as it is your decision, like honestly removing my ability to take Vit, and I am just a 3/5 target executioner
This is probably the best post you've made all game.
Just woke up though so I’ll actually read what he said in full later, but my first impression is too blustery. Might just be normal for him. I haven’t played with him in years, and only once or twice maybe.
I don't get the Tubba hate. I kind of agree with him. and think it also reads genuine. Every time I see a town try to work with a neutral, I get Vietnam flashbacks of Xyer's game of neutrals and how willing the town is willing to accommodate him.
There are still microscopic traces of salt in my bloodstream from not winning that one. I was so close.
@Cantrip: Alright. Let me know when you have more from having read Silver.
-
@WakeMeUp: Nice to meet you, as well. I don't play over on MU, but I do have one important question for you: Inside, When September Ends, or Before You Go Go?
i feel like i've done enough to warrant people remembering my posts and opinions
Nope! STILL have no idea what you've posted.
You should really do something about that.
It might honestly be your posting style.
-
Blah blah words posts boring. I pretty much didn't read page 16.
-
why are we still talking about the Neutral
would anybody still talking about the Neutral like to scumhunt
please and thank you
-
OH LOOK AFTER TYPING THAT CROPCIRCLES COMES IN AND TALKS ABOUT THE NEUTRAL SOME MORE
CAN WE PLEASE LYNCH THIS GUY OMG
-
I don't really see a point in speculating on the size of the scumteam. I mean if I had to guess, I'd say they have 4 members, which checks out with 1 Neutral and the rest town. So why are we not lynching scum, instead?
Ugh guess I should play the eternal catch-up game. Reading things.
You don't have to catch up if you solve the game by page five!
Sounds like effort.
Though I guess I can do votecount analysis at some point.
Motivation to effort dwindling after spending the last half-hour (mostly) reading the pages I missed.
Someone ask me something interesting for me to look into in the context of this game or I'm probably just going to keep yelling about how we haven't lynched CC, yet (which WHY IS HE STILL NOT IN CLAIM RANGE)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
We have 18 players, which means either 14 towns and 4 hostiles or 13 towns and 5 hostiles. If you want to phrase it as "staring another Day 1," then it's starting another Day 1, except with the numbers changed to 13 towns and 3 hostiles or 12 towns and 4 hostiles. That's better than what we have now.
And, for the umpteeth time, all of this is assuming that LastWhisper isn't lying and is mafia, which is not safe to assume given that there are at least two games in which the mafia did exactly that same strategy. Were he to turn out to be mafia, then we'd have a ****ton of information and the mafia would be in some serious *****.
So we have an action that either will make things either demonstratively better or unbelievably better, with absolutely no drawback. There is zero logical reason not to take this.
I have been fully transparent, and well in my town meta lol
If anyone here also can take vit, they can either kill me or bring me to one vit and I literally can only win by lunching people
And I doubt I am the only person on this game that can take vit tbh, I am assuming certainly abilities that even town has might take their own vit
Do you seriously believe that mafia hands out explosive charms and claim they do so Day 1?
Anyways this was my last break so I'll see you all in 3 hours maybe
"That’s because Highroller is town and a target. I’m pretty sure there."
Which sounds like you're guessing about it not that you think he already claimed to be Witted or whatever
Also reading #503 he seems to just be complaining about Wisp saying he was the next target, not claiming to be Witted, so like
Meh?
To be fair this is your own fault, your claim was unnecessary, ill timed and illogical. What did you think would happen?
4 + killing 3rd party is roughly average for 18; 5 is likely to be too many unless they have two goons or something; 5 + killing 3rd party is pretty wolf sided, leaning towards impossible to balance with roles
~pretty sure this holds even if the 3rd party is like, effectively just and even night killer or something
I don't understand his motivations for coming out, which makes me suspicious, but when I read his posts they read as genuine to me. I'm inclined to trust my gut and believe he is telling the truth. So yeah, throw my vote on to the time-to-move-on pile.
MEANWHILE..................................................................................
Unvote
On the subject of things that aren't going anywhere, it's obvious at this point we're not gonna be getting a sloth wagon going any time soon. I was really hoping Az would have something to ad to that, but he's clearly preoccupied(Congrats btw ). And looking at the posts he listed, even I fail to see how a lot of those posts register as anything.
I'm going to do some rereading tonight/tomorrow and see if I can get behind any of the other prospective wagons.
As for the mafia handing out explosive charms, tell me, would you say that's more or less likely than a mafia who hands out role abilities like role blocker and watcher?
In a game that was also designed by Grapefruit?
That you were also a part of?
If you believe that 4 mafia + 1 killing party is a normal amount for 18, that means we have 13 towns vs. 4 mafia, which is hard enough to win without a spanner in the works. This is just all the more reason to remove the third party as soon as possible.
kinda late but just noticed this, don't really have much to say, curious what Circles comes back with, still waiting for Chad's replacement, Azreal is probably a bit busy, but still left a bad taste in my mouth, especially his iso post, since he was just wrong there.
Still waiting for Bur to say some real thoughts as well
I'll try at some point to get some deeper thoughts out, since the chance of me surviving past day 2, pretty much depends on me burying mafia honestly
also my last post was kinda toxic, didn't mean to word it like that, but like the whole 12/4 is kinda hard is weird given that is very common, and highly dependent on many factors, mechanics, skill, etc
And I didn’t claim a killing role in my last game (which was on MC, not here).
Are you going to refuse hunting for mafia meanwhile?
@Wisp how much stock do you put in other player’s theories of how to play mafia?
Who would be your main rolemodels / players you have most respect for?
Just because LastWhisper made it really obvious he's not town doesn't mean you should as well.
I really, really agree we shouldn't be chasing after LW at this point.
If he takes his shots as we require, he's an asset. His flavor makes perfect sense for his claim and his neutral role - the hedge mage was a villain in only one or two of the books, and was focused on killing people with the Wit, the ability to speak with animals.The group responsible for that was not one of the major villain groups in the series.
Behaviorally, yes, I completely get the murder train sentiment, I saw it too. But we have a whole satisfactory explanation with that neutral semi-killing role alignment. I doubt that's fake, unless we see some funky flavor when mafia members start flipping that makes it look more like a hodge podge of disparate villains from multiple storylines. But again, the flavor fit on this claim is very impressive, and since this is a relatively obscure series, and a pretty obscure character within it, this doesn't seem at all like a d1 mafia fake claim. The ability/flavor combo reads far more like something a mod devised after a lot of time and thought, and I'm comfortable believing it's true.
We have a unique advantage here compared to normal/actual killing roles. LW's role is verifiable. We hear from those involved who lost vitality, and who didn't. If he steps out of line, it's very evident.
Two, we don't have to worry much about him going suddenly rogue - his ability takes too much time to kill people for him to surprise us by suddenly striking a non-suspicious target. He should only be after people we have prepped to be able to murder on demand, as it suits us.
Third, it gives us late game kill potentiality without fully committing us. We can prep multiple deaths of POE trees, without having to pull the trigger until later phases, when we will have maximized our information and can hit more accurately.
This is an unprecedented advantage for the town, and we should exploit it, gleefully.
@Rhand
uhhm well given how many times I've caught mafia and be told I am wrong, makes me hate post players, I do respect your game.
in a more general aspect, I respect players that can put out a voice at all times in the game, are level-headed, have a decent mixture of seriousness and fluff
I take most of my playstyle from GH, and Newcomb
Comments on this? Is Sloth doing everything except scum hunting effectively NAI for him?
yo did you ever talk about the Iso comment?
Thought the Silver read he gave was like, a little over the top to be faked.
Thx. Reason I asked is because there’s 1 player notorious for wanting to sell mafia roles as neutral and I was worried you had him in your list but you don’t.
I mean sure that's a read that's too big for my brain, but I think there are better things in terms of Rhand looking good, it all just depends on how easily u think he can fake these interactions. Rhand in my opinion doesn't live in a black and white world of always doing the same stuff, he looks at things, analyzes them, and then moves forward from there
He has already found a few different things to latch onto, which looks good, more so than Highroller, speaking of which I don't really like Highroller's shade on Rhand
the same can be said about Sloth (to a way higher degree than Rhand), he has poked at a lot of stuff, which looks good in my eyes, since it's not impossible but somewhat difficult depending on the player to be able to naturally attack multiple posts and players if you are a wolf
Tammy
KJ Rhand Silver
Sloth Wisp
-gap-
Iso
GJ
Cuth
-bigger gap-
Highroller?
[who cares]
Cantrip Bur WMU
Chad
I’m not sure how much I believe what I thought anymore. Except that he gets lynched day one often for his style; he did mention that and the two games I played with him he was lynched day one - one time town, one time scum. But both were about a year or so ago.
So while yes I do think he’s an easy push for style, I’m not sure I should put faith in my thought that he lacks agenda and that leans town. The people more familiar with him seem not to be bothered though so :/
Might have to meta if I can find time
@Azreal
again, trying to sell me as useful neutral is kinda moot since Highroller is living in a world where I can easily be mafia based on the way I handle his earlier posts, he is pretty much refusing to acknowledge my posts
Highroller's earlier case on my removing the 3p claim is
1. A completely illogical emotional jump from literally one question
2. Using real-world time as an arguement
3. Arguing shade which never happened
4. Omgus
the fact that I am claiming 3p actually means nothing in his argument, it's just another means to an end
though I am curious how he feels about Angel and Survivor claims
but like the two people being voted right now I think? Azreal and Circles, ended up where? in the who cares? or?
since who cares would be you know, weird? if they are trains
@Vaimes
pretty close to where I’m at, but I feel better about cuth, maybe worse about sloth but not by much, and I think better about cantrip. He’s mostly null for me. Why do you have him that low?
Don’t know about high roller. I didn’t like his first post much, mostly just gut but I liked his second post well enough but right now I’m just tired of the distraction which makes him difficult to place.
Oh burs mostly null too.
but you don't trust me
As for his second post outside his evaluation of me, ya it was ok
8:48 AM
9:29 AM:
11:24 AM:
"The Highroller shade never happened! Also I threw shade at Highroller three times in a single page for no good reason. Also I've admitted that I go after low posters and Highroller had only one post at the time - BUT THAT'S NOT SHADE AND HE'S BEING SO MEAN!"
Yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and keep making sense. Maybe someone in the town will sober up.
I'm trying to get you to talk about other things than Wisp because, in case you didn't notice, more than half the game thinks he's neutral and doesn't want to lynch him, and you're singularly focused on just him.
And while I spend a lot of time talking to you, I am also developing other reads.
@tammy
I'm stealing that one lol
Every single thing you’ve done this game has had either no explanation or a paper-thin one that collapses on immediate scrutiny of why you don’t apply your logic to other situations, resulting in you only being able to say, “Uh, well, this is different, somehow”
Like, let's look at the things you've done this game (aside from speaking like a pirate and forgetting previous games you’ve been in). Let’s dive in, shall we?
You’ve repeatedly expressed your belief that GJ is town, with your only explanation being that he’s frustrated. When Slothful pointed out that GJ gets frustrated as mafia? Oh, well, um, this is different somehow! It’s a different kind of frustrated! (No, seriously guys, go back and read his posts. This is not parody, it’s what he actually says.)
You vote LastWhisper with no explanation, and say that you found him suspicious up until he posted his neutrality, after which you make this post:
This logic makes no sense whatsoever. You say that you just played a game in which you were a mafia claiming a neutral and it worked brilliantly, that Wisp was adamant to lynch you and yet the town failed to, and therefore Wisp cannot possibly be attempting he same thing.
That… Does not hold water at all. And it makes no sense that you would immediately, instantaneously defend LastWhisper and take everything he says at face value, which is what you’ve proceeded to do.
Despite him even posting this, ffs:
Later, you vote CropCircles without any explanation whatsoever (Post #473), and then proceed to ask the rest of the town why they haven’t voted CropCircles yet and how you should have voted CropCircles after unviting Wisp (#479), again without any explanation whatsoever.
Whatever conviction you seem to have had towards CropCircles being mafia must have dissolved pretty quickly, because you subsequently vote Tubba after Tubba votes LastWhisper for admitting being a non-town. When you’re asked why you didn’t also express any suspicion of me, when I did the exact same thing, your response was to at first claim ignorance of my posting, and then later coming back with your favorite refrain, “Well, umm, Highroller is different! He’s doing the exact same thing, but it’s the way he’s doing it!”
In fact, you do it twice in the same post. You also respond to GJ expressing that he doesn’t understand why you’re going against Tubba because he does the exact same thing with the same statement. “Well, umm, the way GJ does it is totally different!”
Bizarrely, you later state in 716 that you consider CropCircles more suspicious than Tubba. Despite still voting Tubba. And giving no reasoning other than “gut feeling” to be suspicious of CropCircles. This is after previously asking the entire town why they’re not voting CropCircles.
And from there comes the chain of responses to me and my push on LastWhisper, which again is filled with nonsense-logic (“No, you guys, lynching a town is BETTER than killing a confirmed hostile!”) and “But this is different somehow!”
Also, whatever the hell this is, it’s not suspicious but I just find it funny:
See, he posts this, but then…
… I think I already know what your response is going to be. Let me guess, “But this is different, somehow”?
------------------------------------------------------
Hey LastWhisper? Two questions:
First Question:
What changed?
Second Question:
So why consistently react with either suspicion, hysterics, or a combination of both when I'm adamant that you should be lynched?
anyways I'm taking a two-day break, but thanks for asking me a question
Ugh guess I should play the eternal catch-up game. Reading things.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What is the second question though, it looks like it's for Rhand? are you asking why I get emotional? I reacted with suspicion because I hate hyper-aggressive playstyles, and I had very little run-ins with them that tend to be town
outside the DLP game where I butted heads with Gemma who decided to treat me like crap, but ended up being town
Don't remember why I quoted this but I am in favor of lynching scum rather than a claimed Neutral on D1.
This is probably the best post you've made all game.
Bluster and boister is Az's MO.
What has CropCircles done that strikes you as coming from a town-motivated perspective?
Quack.
There are still microscopic traces of salt in my bloodstream from not winning that one. I was so close.
Because why name it Vaimes when you can name it Iso?
This isn't how everyone pronounces Vaimes?
-
@Cantrip: Alright. Let me know when you have more from having read Silver.
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@WakeMeUp: Nice to meet you, as well. I don't play over on MU, but I do have one important question for you: Inside, When September Ends, or Before You Go Go?
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Nope! STILL have no idea what you've posted.
You should really do something about that.
It might honestly be your posting style.
-
Blah blah words posts boring. I pretty much didn't read page 16.
-
why are we still talking about the Neutral
would anybody still talking about the Neutral like to scumhunt
please and thank you
-
OH LOOK AFTER TYPING THAT CROPCIRCLES COMES IN AND TALKS ABOUT THE NEUTRAL SOME MORE
CAN WE PLEASE LYNCH THIS GUY OMG
-
I don't really see a point in speculating on the size of the scumteam. I mean if I had to guess, I'd say they have 4 members, which checks out with 1 Neutral and the rest town. So why are we not lynching scum, instead?
-
@Az: Still sad you're not talking to me.
Sounds like effort.
Though I guess I can do votecount analysis at some point.
Motivation to effort dwindling after spending the last half-hour (mostly) reading the pages I missed.
Someone ask me something interesting for me to look into in the context of this game or I'm probably just going to keep yelling about how we haven't lynched CC, yet (which WHY IS HE STILL NOT IN CLAIM RANGE)
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
vote: CropCircle
@Iso
@Grapefruit