I am trying to townread Cuth with peace in my heart. I think Highroller is fine, just saw how much more cooperative he was in Ghostbusters and got excited that maybe he wasn't town this time.
Honestly I feel like every single fathomable PoE is just gonna look ugly as hell and there's not a lot to be done about it except wait for the postgame reveal and be like "how was that ever the team."
@Vaimes: can you explain to me in a nice and simple way how town!Az and scum!Anal world makes any sense, especially if Anak claimed to Az and Az has been gaining vitality?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
He's been floating in my PoE for most of the game, but has had bursts of posts where I'm like oh that sounds like a villager. Sussy roleclaim. Anything specific I can look at?
@Vaimes: can you explain to me in a nice and simple way how town!Az and scum!Anal world makes any sense, especially if Anak claimed to Az and Az has been gaining vitality?
@Vaimes: can you explain to me in a nice and simple way how town!Az and scum!Anal world makes any sense, especially if Anak claimed to Az and Az has been gaining vitality?
ho ho scum anal, you say
There is literally no in-thread proof that Azrael was steadily gaining vitality. He made one mention of it and made it sound like he didn't actually know where it came from. To the best of my knowledge, that's the only thing giving me pause.
The easy world is that Azrael knew what he was doing and Anak is exactly what he says he is. iirc Azrael having, what, four starting vitality? Didn't make his ability seem all that strong, but with Anak in the picture it makes more sense.
So like. I don't think Anak is mafia but I'm annoyed that it's even something I'm paranoid of.
With that, nothing can prevent the scum from achieving parity and winning the game; congratulations to:
KamikazeArchon, Slimer, Mafia Follower
Rodemy, Ivo Shandor, Mafia Architect
Silvercrys3467, Mayor Lenny, Mafia Bureaucrat
tomsloger, Ray Stanz, Mafia Ghostbuster)
Full setup, scum chat, and spectator chat can be found here: https://discord.gg/3MmWgvQ (if that doesn't work immediately, post something in this thread and I'll play with permissions until it does).
Mod thoughts to come tomorrow when I'm less tired.
and Kamikaze himself had a lot of good posts, I couldn't find his claim though
so like I maybe said before, this game was clearly a loss regardless, the 3p claim was probably irrelevant
honestly Az should've claimed Anak's role to Tammy or something.
I mean, I don't disagree with they thought.
Now that we know that Az was town, there's no reason to assume he was lying. If we'll lose this game since Az decided to do some weird-ass gambit and that cost us the game, I'll grill him post-game.
So, I'm assuming that Az actually gained Vitality somehow since he said so on this thread, even if there's no mod confirmation on it.
(Obviously I remember things incorrectly and Az never himself said anything about gaining vitality, please point it out so I'm not trying to solve things on faulty premise.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
The quote is broken in the claim post but it looks like Sloth is the one pushing for it. It sounds like he's implying that he has 0 vitality (by asking Silver to gift him three vit, when his ability costs three vit to use). And that he has an action that he's withholding so that he can receive the vit, but that's being extra nitpicky on my part.
He pushed for Tubba over Az but preferred to kill Bur/HR/KJ.
Highroller's tone has changed so much from any of his town games, even the recent micro is completely left field, and there is no way this was caused by ghostbusters, because even in game of thrones, and Death in the family, highroller did not at all play like this
honestly Az should've claimed Anak's role to Tammy or something.
I mean, I don't disagree with they thought.
Now that we know that Az was town, there's no reason to assume he was lying. If we'll lose this game since Az decided to do some weird-ass gambit and that cost us the game, I'll grill him post-game.
So, I'm assuming that Az actually gained Vitality somehow since he said so on this thread, even if there's no mod confirmation on it.
(Obviously I remember things incorrectly and Az never himself said anything about gaining vitality, please point it out so I'm not trying to solve things on faulty premise.)
At the start of day two, his first post said thank you, that's enough for a couple uses or something like that. And yesterday, he said that his vitality gain came from silver, though that was wrong because silver had claimed giving into to Cuth for part of his role. So Az's vitality did not come from Silver.
That I recall he did not make any mention of gaining any more vit, and from the posts he made yesterday it sounded like the one he got night one was the only one, but I don't feel confident enough to make that call.
My concern with regards to anak is that he claimed it came from silver, and according to anak, Az knew hit extra vit came from anak.
There's also missing extra vit then. Once Cantrip flipped, I assumed Az's extra vit night one came from Cantrip. If I'm remembering Cantrip's role right, the target of his investigation gaines vit just like silver's did. That's assuming Cantrip used his role night one though.
So, yeah I wish that if Anak's role is true that Azrael would have been a bit more forthcoming on that one. Even something as simple as him stating that he has role information that clears Anak would help this one.
I want you to explain your given reason for voting for me when you voted for me. I don’t want you to go back and look for different reasons now that you have been asked to justify your vote.
there are two answers to this question
number one: you're probably a wolf through poe and reads
number two: there's more resistance to a sloth (and to a lesser degree a tubba) yeet
my posting tomorrow will probably not change any of the reasonings behind the first answer, it will just set them out in a clearer way from which we can have conversations about the validity of my thought processes and where it's actually laid out in more depth for all to see
the actual reasons are pretty clear i think from what i've said (at least insofar as "these are my reads and this is a natural conclusion from those"), but i don't expect anyone else to be on board without understanding why i think the things i think
You gave a reason for voting for me. I asked you to explain your reason. Which you are saying you will do tomorrow, with the disclaimer that you don’t expect anyone to understand it anyway.
A reason that I have been reading you as non-town is that you don’t seem as interested in reading anyone, you seem more interested in finding targets, like with BoomFrog on D2, and coming up with a justification later. You didn’t seem to care if BoomFrog was town or scum, you were more interested in your bonus power. I was thinking that you might be indie, reasoning that town!you would want to hit mafia, and mafia!you would want to at least appear that you wanted to hit mafia. Now on D4 you are voting for me for a reason you can’t explain, so tomorrow you are going to talk it out with Wisp and see if you can come up with another reason that you can explain.
Bessie always has difficulty keeping up in even medium sized games, her low volume of posting is NAI. And the extra work on the weekend is ligit, we never lie about RL influence regardless of alignment in game. The staying attack on Tammy was a plus. The push on Azreal was internally consistent but a minus for bad results. Her tone is pretty good considering her on a meta level, as Scum she's generally a lot more... mud slingy. It's waffly but I'm still leaning town. Definitely stays in the PoE though.
Yeah well I wasn’t the only player scum reading Azrael.
@Boom
I will say, she did have a lot more, "not you" arguments and just straight up refusals to actually put in work when I asked her too, but at least here she is consistently doing stuff, but like she just hasn't had a real push since Tammy, who was literally obvious town, and her vote on me is poor. I want you to now talk in more detail about her posts in this game, if you, please? We really need to figure this ***** out today
I gave reasons for my votes for Azrael D2 and D3, what were you expecting me to do for a “real push”? Azreal was being pushed by other players, I added my own reasons that pinged me from my reads when I felt I had something to add, and didn’t feel the need to quote every post I agreed with and add “+1” at the end.
and then i see people like sloth and bessie and tubba who are just pushing villagers and have no really good reason not to be pushing other people in that group as much and have bad reasoning but it doesn't really matter because all they need is really 1-2 misyeets at most
So your issue with me is that I’m scum reading and pushing you?
This is a game in which someone can actually post, "Highroller's meta is that he tunnels. I don't believe he is town this game because he is tunneling," and nobody comments on it.
Seriously, that's not a distortion. Read the posts for yourself:
I'm am v reading him because I have very rarely seen wolves play like this, it almost never happens, and I have very clear meta on how he does play as town, and it's almost exactly like this game, he is a very shallow player, that does not care about context ever, I can easily assume that he very rarely ever re-evaluate anything.
Highroller's tone has changed so much from any of his town games, even the recent micro is completely left field, and there is no way this was caused by ghostbusters, because even in game of thrones, and Death in the family, highroller did not at all play like this
and sloth pushing wisp here is bad because that's literally one of two options the wolves were going for as soon as they saw the role in the game
Which is objectively false because I am the only person who has consistently voted for him.
Not saying slothful isn't mafia, but, "He's voting Wisp, and that's what the mafia want!" is bullcrap. The mafia clearly want Wisp alive.
and this is why i'm not comfortable with highroller specifically
either they get him yeeted right away through town paranoia or they try to force it through lategame for an easy misyeet
It cannot, by definition, be a misyeet. He's not town. He's a hostile role necessary for the town to kill in order to achieve victory.
because it's absolutely a justifiable position to be like "hey this is a hostile we don't trust him to townside", and any yeet that's not on a wolf is good for them
It's easy to justify because that's a fact.
yeeting wisp here is basically conceding that we don't really care about getting the wolves and that we somehow think this will be easier to do tomorrow when we have even fewer villagers alive
Killing Wisp means we get a confirmed kill and reduce the number of remaining nightkills, which, if we're at LyLo, would lose us the game if he shoots a town, which he has no reason not to do because he's not town.
but what if he's a wolf who realized that pushing you was justifiable and just kept doing it, and who switched from "this might be a wolf or might be neutral" to "non-town player, yeet"
That's not a switch, those phrases mean the exact same thing.
but i think wolves are super hesitant to bring you to endgame when they're both afraid of you potentially targeting one of them at night and know that there's a reasonable case to be made for you being the kill here from a village pov
Objectively false as, once again, I am the only person who has consistently pushed Wisp.
and d4 is absolutely the worst time to be pushing for your yeet in my book
if people think highroller has been villagery independent of that push i'm ok with listening to that
but i'm strongly against v-reading him for that specifically at this point because it's gone from "no that's silly" to "that might actually just straight up lose us the game most of the time" and he's still doing it and not much else at all
It's almost like I've been in a game in which that exact thing happened.
I don’t understand why highroller doesn’t see the value in his role.
It's probably the worst role in a game whose entire design philosophy might well have been "Make bad roles."
Its usefulness is entirely dependent on my finding another player with an actually worthwhile role ability, it is highly detrimental if used on a hostile, and its cost is enormous. Case in point: if I were to have used it, I would be dead.
the reason yeeting wisp is incredibly wolf-sided is that we're basically sacrificing two >rand chances to hit wolves in exchange for maybe ensuring lylo if the wolves aren't able to kill multiple of the people who are known to have 1 vit after town has massclaimed and definitely not killing any wolves
If you're against nightkills bringing the town to loss, shouldn't you WANT to kill Wisp?
if we are in lylo, the game is already over lmao
I am not a wolf here, stop playing bad because you got bonked by Kamikaze who clearly knows how to play as a wolf
also what are you eye-rolling at lmao, you played exactly like this, in the micro where u were town, you potato
it's not a point against you lol
There is a very clear difference between how you played past games as town, and this game if you are town, and the micro, that is all I said
can you ******* stop? seriously
Killing Wisp means we get a confirmed kill and reduce the number of remaining nightkills, which, if we're at LyLo, would lose us the game if he shoots a town, which he has no reason not to do because he's not town.
you need to either decide if I am 3p, or if I am wolf, because if we are at lylo, the game is over if you kill me
you need to either decide if I am 3p, or if I am wolf, because if we are at lylo, the game is over if you kill me
Personally? I think you're mafia.
But it really doesn't matter either way, because we STILL need to kill you, and even if it is 7 towns, 4 mafia, and 1 neutral, if we fail to kill a nontown, we're done.
There is no logical argument that killing you is not the correct play here.
see what? I see blood red in my eyes everytime I see him read my posts so poorly
I am literally town leaning him off meta, but somehow he managed to completely miscontrue my posts, AND
THEN HE DISAPPEARS, I LITERALLY CAN'T DO REAL TIME WITH HIM
I'm going back on hiatus after this game, this is just too frustrating, Highroller is hands down the most aggravating player I have played with, next to maybe Kpaca
it does matter, if this is lylo, hello?
and everyone here that knows me, knows that this is not my wolf game
Fun story: you claimed hostile neutral. We still have to kill you as part of our win condition. This buys you nothing.
Moreover, unless there are only 3 mafia this game and not 4, we still have to kill a nontown today or we will lose. Killing you is is a 100% guaranteed chance of us not losing. There is no logical reason to not kill you.
@highroller
it must have been, because my stance has not changed if I am reading you strictly based off meta
it shouldn't be an excuse not to solve, we can get mafia today, and it won't be lylo, regardless
I have no idea why you won't treat me in this game as a person trying to solve at least
I have killed 0 people in this game with my ability
either way I am out, don't feel like playing this game anymore
replacement seems kinda pointless at this point
@Everyone
there is no arguable reason not to execute me anymore, I am done with this game
You roleclaimed a hostile role. It is town win condition to kill all threats to the town. I have no idea what strategy you had but you can't argue this is anything other than a self-own.
You roleclaimed a hostile role. It is town win condition to kill all threats to the town. I have no idea what strategy you had but you can't argue this is anything other than a self-own.
I'm taking this personally cause u have 0 idea how to talk to people, we could still be solving this game, and voting mafia, its not hard
I watched how you treated ZDS in the micro, and I am over it
there is 0 reason why you change your attitude, even in your past confirmed town games you were less aggressive, I don't get what happened to you
like I am not an evil neutral here, I am have been solving the game, and I have been trying to charm in the least harmful ways
this literally wouldn't be a problem if I had just killed, but I chose not to, because I did not believe you were mafia
and you just continue to miscontrue my posts, and treat me like utter garbage
I claimed because I didn't realize the mafia night kill was vit based, and given my meta, its very obvious when I am town
I expected us to do better, but we didn't
and you are part of the problem, whether you want to accept that or not
and you just continue to miscontrue my posts, and treat me like utter garbage
Ok, I wouldn't take it that far. At the end of the day, a villager has every right to mistrust literally anything you say. It's the nature of neutral claims.
You don't have to keep engaging him, and it's not like anyone else is all that interested in killing you except as a last resort, so please, chill.
and you just continue to miscontrue my posts, and treat me like utter garbage
Ok, I wouldn't take it that far. At the end of the day, a villager has every right to mistrust literally anything you say. It's the nature of neutral claims.
You don't have to keep engaging him, and it's not like anyone else is all that interested in killing you except as a last resort, so please, chill.
@Vaimes
don't talk to me about how I should feel, when I would literally be out of this game right now, if you had just voted
your vote is literally the single reason why I still have to deal with this
being 3p is literally garbage
You roleclaimed a hostile role. It is town win condition to kill all threats to the town. I have no idea what strategy you had but you can't argue this is anything other than a self-own.
ur better win this game in lylo if you are town, being in perpetual lylo is aids, they will have 4 continuing day phaess to figure out how they are going to play this game, and it takes one mistake to lose the game, only one, your track record consistent of insta voting, even if it was partially ZDS' fault for being weird with his vote, and I did see you yeet obvious wolf Proph in lylo
Come back with an actual PoE and we'll talk about Tubba.
My only read there is "has made no serious effort to lift self out of PoE, despite knowing he perpetually resides there otherwise."
It all comes down to the wit chat - I'm basically paraphrasing some of what I told Tammy here as I'm not sure I can copy-paste:
I've already talked about what his first message was on N2.
On D3, Tubba's second message was to say that he found cuth and anak suspicious and was starting to waffle on Az. Remember that these messages are short and you only get one per phase (cept on D3), yet he still sent this message. He was obviously unsure of even that and the point of the message seemed to be more of deferring to me and trying to get my opinion to see if it was a valid line to pursue.
It was genuine, not coached at all, and scum!tubba would probably try to be more swaying or at least not so doubtful. Sort of show his value.
It also matters that this second message was sent despite me flat out not answering to the first and outing him in the thread. Scum!tubba would have likely given up on the wit to me as a wasted effort at that point, not kept trying to engage.
In my mind, it really showed tubba to be feeling alone and unsure on what to do and trying to do SOMETHING to figure out the game and get some help.
Now come N3, I sent my first wit and asked what he thought of the game now in light of Az's flip.
He responded that he felt regret and vindication over Az's flip as town, and that he was locking in on Cuth.
I asked what he meant by vindication early toDay, and he reiterated that he had been waffling and that he should have listened to his gut after all.
Ok so here's the thing - I know from being in spec on his prior scum games, and from personal experience with him on mason chat (you too on this, @wisp), that Tubba is a player that relies on his (scum/mason)mates to figure out what to say and how to act. He's not often at the level of writing an entire post in the chat for approval prior to posting it in the thread, but he'll definitely ask if this is good to say or do, etc.
As I said in D3, there's no indication that Tubba had any sort of guidance, what was clear there was a feeling of isolation and a need for help.
On N3, though, there's no ******* way a scummate would let him use the word "vindication" when referring to a town flip. Maybe he would have done it without letting them know first, but would definitely tell them after, and in that case I would 100% be dead right now. They'd be like "you told him what? We gotta get rid of Sloth, bye."
I'm alive right now. It ain't him.
Honestly, this is all subjective, I'm aware. But Tubba's yet to actually fool me with such behaviors so if this is the first time, kudos for him.
I also like that he came in and did not backtrack on the statements on the wit, and did follow up on Cuth, but didn't just sit on it and kept talking.
Tammy claimed her role to Sloth earlier and Tammy being alive points to Sloth not being mafia or Tammy would be dead.
@Vaimes: FYI, Tammy claimed her role and targets to me too ;p
@Bessie: Does your ability see Skill targetings too?
Yeah, that.
Uhh how long have you guys known? And she claimed her targets?
Tammy's already talked about this but I want to reiterate once again for the sake of clarity: Tammy did not claim to me, I just figured it out. This obviously also means she didn't disclose her targets to me.
We talked about what my targets should be (though as she said, she didn't really have a strong opinion).
this PoE has all wolves, I am sure of it
I wish I could remove Sloth, I really want to remove Sloth, but his day 4 has been pretty awful
I need him to give me some real reads and not what he is doing now
Sigh. Look yesterday got heated, but I 100% believe there's something ****y going on with Anak's claim. I understand you do not agree - I don't get WHY you don't, but I do understand you don't. However, it's still a "real read."
Me looking into cuth is a "real read." I'm not hanging my hat on the idea that "acting like his crumbs weren't vague" = "scum" but I do think it's worth looking into.
I'm aware I'm jumping at anything I see. This doesn't mean these are not legitimate thoughts to consider, it means we've had no red flips and at this point I simply don't know what's relevant or worth focusing on, so I'm casting a wide net, similar to how I play on D1 except on D5 where it looks worse.
I'll deep dive and find the thread to follow soon - I should have more time tomorrow.
There is literally no in-thread proof that Azrael was steadily gaining vitality. He made one mention of it and made it sound like he didn't actually know where it came from. To the best of my knowledge, that's the only thing giving me pause.
The easy world is that Azrael knew what he was doing and Anak is exactly what he says he is. iirc Azrael having, what, four starting vitality? Didn't make his ability seem all that strong, but with Anak in the picture it makes more sense.
So like. I don't think Anak is mafia but I'm annoyed that it's even something I'm paranoid of.
and Kamikaze himself had a lot of good posts, I couldn't find his claim though
so like I maybe said before, this game was clearly a loss regardless, the 3p claim was probably irrelevant
I mean, I don't disagree with they thought.
Now that we know that Az was town, there's no reason to assume he was lying. If we'll lose this game since Az decided to do some weird-ass gambit and that cost us the game, I'll grill him post-game.
So, I'm assuming that Az actually gained Vitality somehow since he said so on this thread, even if there's no mod confirmation on it.
(Obviously I remember things incorrectly and Az never himself said anything about gaining vitality, please point it out so I'm not trying to solve things on faulty premise.)
Gdi autocorrect.
The quote is broken in the claim post but it looks like Sloth is the one pushing for it. It sounds like he's implying that he has 0 vitality (by asking Silver to gift him three vit, when his ability costs three vit to use). And that he has an action that he's withholding so that he can receive the vit, but that's being extra nitpicky on my part.
He pushed for Tubba over Az but preferred to kill Bur/HR/KJ.
Pretty casual stuff.
but I could not find a wolf game from him
☹️
Reading things through, will be around later for posting or, how did Wisp call it real-timeing? If anyone else is
At the start of day two, his first post said thank you, that's enough for a couple uses or something like that. And yesterday, he said that his vitality gain came from silver, though that was wrong because silver had claimed giving into to Cuth for part of his role. So Az's vitality did not come from Silver.
That I recall he did not make any mention of gaining any more vit, and from the posts he made yesterday it sounded like the one he got night one was the only one, but I don't feel confident enough to make that call.
My concern with regards to anak is that he claimed it came from silver, and according to anak, Az knew hit extra vit came from anak.
There's also missing extra vit then. Once Cantrip flipped, I assumed Az's extra vit night one came from Cantrip. If I'm remembering Cantrip's role right, the target of his investigation gaines vit just like silver's did. That's assuming Cantrip used his role night one though.
So, yeah I wish that if Anak's role is true that Azrael would have been a bit more forthcoming on that one. Even something as simple as him stating that he has role information that clears Anak would help this one.
CC
How do you "know" we have four wolves?
You gave a reason for voting for me. I asked you to explain your reason. Which you are saying you will do tomorrow, with the disclaimer that you don’t expect anyone to understand it anyway.
A reason that I have been reading you as non-town is that you don’t seem as interested in reading anyone, you seem more interested in finding targets, like with BoomFrog on D2, and coming up with a justification later. You didn’t seem to care if BoomFrog was town or scum, you were more interested in your bonus power. I was thinking that you might be indie, reasoning that town!you would want to hit mafia, and mafia!you would want to at least appear that you wanted to hit mafia. Now on D4 you are voting for me for a reason you can’t explain, so tomorrow you are going to talk it out with Wisp and see if you can come up with another reason that you can explain.
Yeah well I wasn’t the only player scum reading Azrael.
I gave reasons for my votes for Azrael D2 and D3, what were you expecting me to do for a “real push”? Azreal was being pushed by other players, I added my own reasons that pinged me from my reads when I felt I had something to add, and didn’t feel the need to quote every post I agreed with and add “+1” at the end.
So your issue with me is that I’m scum reading and pushing you?
Seriously, that's not a distortion. Read the posts for yourself:
-------------------
KJ: How do you know it's not LyLo today?
Which is objectively false because I am the only person who has consistently voted for him.
Not saying slothful isn't mafia, but, "He's voting Wisp, and that's what the mafia want!" is bullcrap. The mafia clearly want Wisp alive.
It cannot, by definition, be a misyeet. He's not town. He's a hostile role necessary for the town to kill in order to achieve victory.
It's easy to justify because that's a fact.
Killing Wisp means we get a confirmed kill and reduce the number of remaining nightkills, which, if we're at LyLo, would lose us the game if he shoots a town, which he has no reason not to do because he's not town.
That's not a switch, those phrases mean the exact same thing.
Objectively false as, once again, I am the only person who has consistently pushed Wisp.
... Have you read any of my posts?
It's almost like I've been in a game in which that exact thing happened.
Maybe read my posts sometime.
It's probably the worst role in a game whose entire design philosophy might well have been "Make bad roles."
Its usefulness is entirely dependent on my finding another player with an actually worthwhile role ability, it is highly detrimental if used on a hostile, and its cost is enormous. Case in point: if I were to have used it, I would be dead.
(Day 1)
Highroller: Hey, we should do the thing that will help us win the game.
Town: No.
(When we get two votes)
Highroller: Ok, now we can totally do the thing that will help us win the game!
Town: No.
(When we're at LyLo)
Highroller: So, do you guys want to do the thing that will help us win the game now?
Town: No.
But sure, talk about how you doubt my commitment to Sparkle Motion.
If you're against nightkills bringing the town to loss, shouldn't you WANT to kill Wisp?
CropCircles. He used his Wit ability on me.
Good catch.
I would also like to hear the answer to this.
I am not a wolf here, stop playing bad because you got bonked by Kamikaze who clearly knows how to play as a wolf
also what are you eye-rolling at lmao, you played exactly like this, in the micro where u were town, you potato
it's not a point against you lol
can you ******* stop? seriously
can for a second, you actually realize this?
Not going to delve into why I thought he would, would stray too close to quoting PMs that I'm not comfortable discussing that.
Apologies for misleading everyone, I had it wrong myself all game too
I repeat:
Personally? I think you're mafia.
But it really doesn't matter either way, because we STILL need to kill you, and even if it is 7 towns, 4 mafia, and 1 neutral, if we fail to kill a nontown, we're done.
There is no logical argument that killing you is not the correct play here.
I am literally town leaning him off meta, but somehow he managed to completely miscontrue my posts, AND
THEN HE DISAPPEARS, I LITERALLY CAN'T DO REAL TIME WITH HIM
I'm going back on hiatus after this game, this is just too frustrating, Highroller is hands down the most aggravating player I have played with, next to maybe Kpaca
and everyone here that knows me, knows that this is not my wolf game
Fun story: you claimed hostile neutral. We still have to kill you as part of our win condition. This buys you nothing.
Moreover, unless there are only 3 mafia this game and not 4, we still have to kill a nontown today or we will lose. Killing you is is a 100% guaranteed chance of us not losing. There is no logical reason to not kill you.
it must have been, because my stance has not changed if I am reading you strictly based off meta
it shouldn't be an excuse not to solve, we can get mafia today, and it won't be lylo, regardless
I have no idea why you won't treat me in this game as a person trying to solve at least
I have killed 0 people in this game with my ability
either way I am out, don't feel like playing this game anymore
replacement seems kinda pointless at this point
@Everyone
there is no arguable reason not to execute me anymore, I am done with this game
I am not self-voting this time, but consider me not a willing participant
You roleclaimed a hostile role. It is town win condition to kill all threats to the town. I have no idea what strategy you had but you can't argue this is anything other than a self-own.
I watched how you treated ZDS in the micro, and I am over it
there is 0 reason why you change your attitude, even in your past confirmed town games you were less aggressive, I don't get what happened to you
like I am not an evil neutral here, I am have been solving the game, and I have been trying to charm in the least harmful ways
this literally wouldn't be a problem if I had just killed, but I chose not to, because I did not believe you were mafia
and you just continue to miscontrue my posts, and treat me like utter garbage
I expected us to do better, but we didn't
and you are part of the problem, whether you want to accept that or not
You don't have to keep engaging him, and it's not like anyone else is all that interested in killing you except as a last resort, so please, chill.
don't talk to me about how I should feel, when I would literally be out of this game right now, if you had just voted
your vote is literally the single reason why I still have to deal with this
being 3p is literally garbage
And we can trace these no u arguments all the way back to "well you shouldn't have claimed 3P on a site that hates 3P."
It all comes down to the wit chat - I'm basically paraphrasing some of what I told Tammy here as I'm not sure I can copy-paste:
I've already talked about what his first message was on N2.
On D3, Tubba's second message was to say that he found cuth and anak suspicious and was starting to waffle on Az. Remember that these messages are short and you only get one per phase (cept on D3), yet he still sent this message. He was obviously unsure of even that and the point of the message seemed to be more of deferring to me and trying to get my opinion to see if it was a valid line to pursue.
It was genuine, not coached at all, and scum!tubba would probably try to be more swaying or at least not so doubtful. Sort of show his value.
It also matters that this second message was sent despite me flat out not answering to the first and outing him in the thread. Scum!tubba would have likely given up on the wit to me as a wasted effort at that point, not kept trying to engage.
In my mind, it really showed tubba to be feeling alone and unsure on what to do and trying to do SOMETHING to figure out the game and get some help.
Now come N3, I sent my first wit and asked what he thought of the game now in light of Az's flip.
He responded that he felt regret and vindication over Az's flip as town, and that he was locking in on Cuth.
I asked what he meant by vindication early toDay, and he reiterated that he had been waffling and that he should have listened to his gut after all.
Ok so here's the thing - I know from being in spec on his prior scum games, and from personal experience with him on mason chat (you too on this, @wisp), that Tubba is a player that relies on his (scum/mason)mates to figure out what to say and how to act. He's not often at the level of writing an entire post in the chat for approval prior to posting it in the thread, but he'll definitely ask if this is good to say or do, etc.
As I said in D3, there's no indication that Tubba had any sort of guidance, what was clear there was a feeling of isolation and a need for help.
On N3, though, there's no ******* way a scummate would let him use the word "vindication" when referring to a town flip. Maybe he would have done it without letting them know first, but would definitely tell them after, and in that case I would 100% be dead right now. They'd be like "you told him what? We gotta get rid of Sloth, bye."
I'm alive right now. It ain't him.
Honestly, this is all subjective, I'm aware. But Tubba's yet to actually fool me with such behaviors so if this is the first time, kudos for him.
I also like that he came in and did not backtrack on the statements on the wit, and did follow up on Cuth, but didn't just sit on it and kept talking.
We talked about what my targets should be (though as she said, she didn't really have a strong opinion).
Me looking into cuth is a "real read." I'm not hanging my hat on the idea that "acting like his crumbs weren't vague" = "scum" but I do think it's worth looking into.
I'm aware I'm jumping at anything I see. This doesn't mean these are not legitimate thoughts to consider, it means we've had no red flips and at this point I simply don't know what's relevant or worth focusing on, so I'm casting a wide net, similar to how I play on D1 except on D5 where it looks worse.
I'll deep dive and find the thread to follow soon - I should have more time tomorrow.