I haven't seen whatever it is from Iso I'm supposed to respond to.
Silver's analysis regarding the number of players implying a neutral role is also spot on.
The only thing that worries me is LW's statement that he thinks we can't win unless he's left the game. That makes me want to go reread my PM real fast.
i'm now like 99% sure wisp's claim is either real or close to real (i don't think he's a wolf)
the way he's playing this game is exactly like v!wisp mindset
i'm not talking about wincons or anything
just
it's wisp against the world, to an extent
and his reactions and all check out quite a bit
i also think highroller is very probably town; i think the confidence/depth of thought is going in directions and in ways that aren't very natural for wolves to do in most gamestates, and i don't think in this one
@Highroller: You and GJ ARE different than tubba.
You have an actual mechanical reason for being so adamant about lynching Wisp and GJ doesn’t believe lynching D1 is necessary to begin with.
And yes, I did miss at first that you were also so sold on lynching Wisp at first. Mea culpa. I’m not sure why you perceive that as a scumtell though. What would make mafia!me miss that but town!me not?
GJ’s frustration IS different than in Matter because in Matter he felt that the setup was stacked against him. He wasn’t showing frustration on Day 1.
My Cropcircles read isn’t gone but Cropcircles is. He should be our lynch toDay and probably will be.
That doesn’t mean I should leave my vote parked on him all Day, I move it when I think I see another scum and will do so again when I see another one.
There are multiple mafia to be found.
It’s Day 1. I have no idea why you’re looking for consistency to start with. Day 1 is where you go after people when you see something that could mean something and drop it when it doesn’t.
Maybe it’s playstyle difference that makes you think I have bad intentions with you? All I want is for you to talk about other people than Wisp.
I guess you did now with your post about me so eh ok, I will leave you alone. I’m not going to have any impact on you when you think I’m mafia.
@Tammy / Vaimes: you might want to take over the getting Highroller to form more reads thing, he’s not gonna listen to me.
I haven't seen whatever it is from Iso I'm supposed to respond to.
Silver's analysis regarding the number of players implying a neutral role is also spot on.
The only thing that worries me is LW's statement that he thinks we can't win unless he's left the game. That makes me want to go reread my PM real fast.
He leaves the game when he has his wincon so yeh, winning without leaving is impossible. Which is why also in our wincon he can’t be alive at the end of the game. We can however, if we get rid of all mafia and still have enough townies to support it, choose to let him win with us by just offering him the remaining target(s).
Mafia can do the same though, which is why he can’t be allowed to live past Day 3 or so.
That actually is how we won our game on MC. It had a hitman with 4 targets: 2 town, 2 mafia. And a chat mechanic. The town targets were already dead and we (mafia) offered the hitman to win with us by helping him kill the two mafia players while he helped us push town past lylo first.
I like Rhands take on Highroller. It feels like he is applying his logic in a town way, and not trying to turn it to anything maniacal.
... So, let me see if I understand this correctly.
Are you suggesting that the guy who openly claimed being a hostile role to the town - and specifically a role that is serial killer-esque - may not be entirely trustworthy?
And we maybe would be better off not taking everything he says at face value?
Highroller, the argument isn't "let the neutral endgame," it's "voting them out Day 1 is objectively bad."
I'm not gonna shield Last forever lol.
100% incorrect. It is subjectively bad. Yall pretending that a neutral claim couldn't be fake.
Who the hell cares what they did in another game, the context matters, I don't know anything about ghostbusters, and rhands claim was God awful from what Osie said, lol
I have been fully transparent, and well in my town meta lol
I mean, objectively it wasn't. He said he won the game off of it.
Quote from CC »
I've fallen a bit behind, but skimming the thread I see we're still on LW. I would just like to say that I generally agree with where HR is coming from, but I also would much rather keep hunting mafia then elim a 3rd party. His ability is on the table and semi-confirmed, so he can't operate without our knowledge. If he uses it on someone we don't want him to use it on, we will know before he can pull the trigger.
I don't understand his motivations for coming out, which makes me suspicious, but when I read his posts they read as genuine to me. I'm inclined to trust my gut and believe he is telling the truth. So yeah, throw my vote on to the time-to-move-on pile.
On the subject of things that aren't going anywhere, it's obvious at this point we're not gonna be getting a sloth wagon going any time soon. I was really hoping Az would have something to ad to that, but he's clearly preoccupied(Congrats btw Link ). And looking at the posts he listed, even I fail to see how a lot of those posts register as anything.
I'm going to do some rereading tonight/tomorrow and see if I can get behind any of the other prospective wagons.
I really don't like this post. Mostly because I think it's long winded (in comparison to the other people) saying the exact same thing that regardless of wisp, Highroller doesn't really read wolf for this push. Even this part:
I'm going to do some rereading tonight/tomorrow and see if I can get behind any of the other prospective wagons.
This doesn't strike me as someone actively hunting. This strikes me as someone looking to coast and join a wagon, not find a target to get other people to follow.
Unvote SIlver, Vote CropCircles42
What has CropCircles done that strikes you as coming from a town-motivated perspective?
Early game, tone was decent and right at the beginning of day 1 of the Wisp saga, Crop was making some points that were what I was thinking. But now that we are ~7 days away from deadline, and I feel like there is way too much waffling coming from that slot.
Think I mostly caught up. Really haven't been super impressed with Cuth over the last few days. Read his posts, and the only thing that kind of stuck out was him being said Vaimes didn't trust him. KJ hasn't wowed me with town vibes either. I like my Rhand read a little more, and Az's comment of how good it was to analyze was this setup means for numbers hits my ear wrong as well. Back to full GJ power. I've learned to let go again.
It's flavor gaming. I am assuming unless I missed another post this was the post you were referring to:
Quote from AZ »
For the record, we are not tied up at the hospital, we are back home waiting again.
I really, really agree we shouldn't be chasing after LW at this point.
If he takes his shots as we require, he's an asset. His flavor makes perfect sense for his claim and his neutral role - the hedge mage was a villain in only one or two of the books, and was focused on killing people with the Wit, the ability to speak with animals.The group responsible for that was not one of the major villain groups in the series.
Behaviorally, yes, I completely get the murder train sentiment, I saw it too. But we have a whole satisfactory explanation with that neutral semi-killing role alignment. I doubt that's fake, unless we see some funky flavor when mafia members start flipping that makes it look more like a hodge podge of disparate villains from multiple storylines. But again, the flavor fit on this claim is very impressive, and since this is a relatively obscure series, and a pretty obscure character within it, this doesn't seem at all like a d1 mafia fake claim. The ability/flavor combo reads far more like something a mod devised after a lot of time and thought, and I'm comfortable believing it's true.
We have a unique advantage here compared to normal/actual killing roles. LW's role is verifiable. We hear from those involved who lost vitality, and who didn't. If he steps out of line, it's very evident.
Two, we don't have to worry much about him going suddenly rogue - his ability takes too much time to kill people for him to surprise us by suddenly striking a non-suspicious target. He should only be after people we have prepped to be able to murder on demand, as it suits us.
Third, it gives us late game kill potentiality without fully committing us. We can prep multiple deaths of POE trees, without having to pull the trigger until later phases, when we will have maximized our information and can hit more accurately.
This is an unprecedented advantage for the town, and we should exploit it, gleefully.
Yeah, the second he started going into flavor town, I stopped caring. I don't think it's necessary a wolfy trait, but it isn't something I really think it's worth it to do. Maybe Grape didn't think his neutral would claim, but per Rhand/Highroller, it seems like neutrals claiming is a very common thing to the point the town comes up with 10,000 reasons to keep them around.
And no silver, you aren't taking my head space right now. You haven't really don't anything to change my mind, I just think other people have done worse.
You misunderstand, I'm not trying to convince you to not wolf read me or something I couldn't really care less what you think my alignment is right now
I'm trying to understand the mindset that could make town!GJ go "man Azrael sounds weird" and in almost the same breath say "his flavor gaming is NAI even though he used it to defend someone else I think is a wolf"
Generally speaking, I feel wolves are more likely to not connect the dots there because they often don't bother having a coherent worldview they're just looking for people who are "wolfy in a vacuum" they can push
I'm trying to understand the mindset that could make town!GJ go "man Azrael sounds weird" and in almost the same breath say "his flavor gaming is NAI even though he used it to defend someone else I think is a wolf"
It's really simple. Flavor gaming = NAI and GJ's brain shutdown. Even if I am wrong and wisp is neutral, I don't really think that affects my Az read. You really think wolves, especially ones who have played as long as Az don't try to connect the dots?
Obviously, if LW flips wolf, I am much more wolfy on Az then. But until that happens I am not assuming anything. I even think Az could do this as a wolf even if LW is neutral. Probably the post that still has me eyebrow raising is where he just posted a bunch of posts he thought were wolfy that Vaimes translated, with seemingly no explanation. I don't know how much credence to give that due to his obvious personal decision tree, but he has just been hitting weird vibes for. I could see his flavor point coming from either alignment, which is why I was not regarding it.
You misunderstand, I'm not trying to convince you to not wolf read me or something I couldn't really care less what you think my alignment is right now
I'm trying to understand the mindset that could make town!GJ go "man Azrael sounds weird" and in almost the same breath say "his flavor gaming is NAI even though he used it to defend someone else I think is a wolf"
Vaimes, your more recent page and a half of your iso has felt like pure filler/nothing posts. Week and a day to deadline, you still want to go chad, or who do you think the wolves are since your last list?
Vaimes, your more recent page and a half of your iso has felt like pure filler/nothing posts. Week and a day to deadline, you still want to go chad, or who do you think the wolves are since your last list?
I fluff because I have a clear position and don't want to be prodded, and yes I do want to go Chad. He's scum and it'll save a replacement.
But if you're going to argue that his flip doesn't really help much, then I would also be happy with anyone on my low list (Bur, CC, Cantrip).
Vaimes, your more recent page and a half of your iso has felt like pure filler/nothing posts. Week and a day to deadline, you still want to go chad, or who do you think the wolves are since your last list?
I fluff because I have a clear position and don't want to be prodded, and yes I do want to go Chad. He's scum and it'll save a replacement.
But if you're going to argue that his flip doesn't really help much, then I would also be happy with anyone on my low list (Bur, CC, Cantrip).
You have the 2nd highest post count only to LW. I don't think you are in danger of being prodded.:p
I don't want to deal with Chad because my spicy take is that he is town. I know LW had some meta read of Chad posting walls is a wolf trait, but that seems silly to me. But sell me on it, because my pulse of the game is Chad doesn't happen, especially if a replacement is found.
Lynchwise, my short list is Cropcircles, LW, Silver, Wakemeup in descending order. Bur/Tubba have been down trending for me lately, but not enough that I don't care to see a flip today.
Oh, I forgot WMU. Yeah I could go there but that's probably something I push hard D2 when she's had ample time to have some sort of opinionated catchup.
Chad had a fake vote on Cantrip and replaced out without justifying it. If wallposts a tick towards the negative, even better, but I don't care much about that angle because it's not my view.
Sloth voting General Johnny is the best thing to happen in this game, and I wanna say why does town sloth **** up a vote that badly. Is he town? That is the real question?
Pretty sure GJ is just town here, #129 kind of just solidifies that read.
I thought this particular couple of lines read townie. He basically compliments sloth vote, but completely dials it back calling me town. Maybe a wolf gets tricky, but that seems genuine thought to me, and not just manufactured to look like it. He could have either gone shadier on sloth if he wanted to push him, or hard barn him, and start finding posts of mine to dislike if he wanted me.
Not really seeing that, based on GJ #129 which feels like a very natural interaction between both of them.I've been wrong about my brother before and I lean him more towards the chance of being scum this game than GJ based on pages 1 & 2, that being said, I think both are just town.
Maybe he makes this post where he and LW rand wolf, but I don't see why he puts pressure off potential mislynches if he is a wolf, and LW is not.
That's pretty much it. I didn't think he was a strong town read, but I also don't get why people are wolf reading him. Just comes off strange to me. But I felt like he was a thinking player making the wall. His last post before replacement was a bit meh, admittedly (way too focused on RVS) but there seems to be a sub theme of this game, so I didn't give it that much thought.
interjection here, I still refuse to believe Chad wrote that post, secondly, wolf!Chad has a rough time not TMI'ing his reads, I will him, that he did explain those reads well enough, and its possible he believes them
do I think he is obvious wolf, no, do I think that post makes him any bit town, also no
also @Vaimes
my chad meta read was mostly a jest, don't use it, not that Chad can't be a wolf, but what exactly is keeping a vote on someone that is in the process of being replaced going to do? do you really believe that post, is "that" wolfy, to warrant not pressuring others who are still here, and are still lacking consistent or new thoughts, aka Bur/Circles?
@Silvercry
Quote from Silvecrys »
I'm trying to understand the mindset that could make town!GJ go "man Azrael sounds weird" and in almost the same breath say "his flavor gaming is NAI even though he used it to defend someone else I think is a wolf"
I mean you can tonally dislike someone, but still like their thoughts as a whole, or believe certain aspects of their thoughts are NAI? I don't know I just don't see this as that big of a deal.
in regards to Chad, and vaimes thoughts on his Cantrip vote, ya it was kinda bad, but still meh, I wish I had more to read him on, but I don't and until he gets a replacement I don't believe one post and only one post is sufficient enough to argue he should indefinitely die today
Quote from Cuth »
the way he's playing this game is exactly like v!wisp mindset
How much of my V!mindset do you even have experience with? given you saw it once, and we were opposite alignments, but is that really enough?
PTAP: hey all, things got a bit more complicated than expected on my side and haven't had time to catch up. I'm pretty sure everything should settle down by Weds so look forward to that.
@ me any questions and I'll hit 'em then, I dont see me doing my regular multi-post responses by virtue of volume and laziness.
My Cropcircles read isn’t gone but Cropcircles is. He should be our lynch toDay and probably will be.
That doesn’t mean I should leave my vote parked on him all Day, I move it when I think I see another scum and will do so again when I see another one.
There are multiple mafia to be found.
It’s Day 1. I have no idea why you’re looking for consistency to start with. Day 1 is where you go after people when you see something that could mean something and drop it when it doesn’t.
About the interacting and proportional reads: I tend to focus. I do develop a broad sense of the gamestate meanwhile, but my own efforts are focused on 1-2 people at a time.
C'mon, buddy, you're going to have to be a lot more deceptive than this.
For you to jump on Tubba immediately after declaring to the entire town that they should be voting CropCircles is a terrible look.
He leaves the game when he has his wincon so yeh, winning without leaving is impossible. Which is why also in our wincon he can’t be alive at the end of the game. We can however, if we get rid of all mafia and still have enough townies to support it, choose to let him win with us by just offering him the remaining target(s).
Oh look, now he thinks it's a fabulous idea to let him kill towns. Yeah, he's definitely trustworthy.
Highroller, the argument isn't "let the neutral endgame," it's "voting them out Day 1 is objectively bad."
I'm not gonna shield Last forever lol.
100% incorrect. It is subjectively bad. Yall pretending that a neutral claim couldn't be fake.
First of all, yes.
Second, it's not objectively bad, it is objectively beneficial. Either LastWhisper is actually a neutral, or he's mafia. If he's mafia, well then lynching him seriously screws over the mafia. If he's neutral, then we're effectively starting Day 1 over with one less hostile and 18+ pages of posts to analyze, which is objectively better than the position we're in right now.
There is no drawback to lynching LastWhisper, and in doing so we'll either be significantly better off if he's neutral, and overwhelmingly better off if he's mafia.
But no, we should let him live until day 3 for no reason at all. Nevermind the fact that his role clearly is to kill towns. Nevermind that, based on LastWhisper's description of these people, they might be power roles of some sort.
But there I go making sense again. I know you all hate that.
Who else wants to bet that these people falling over themselves to defend LastWhisper are suddenly going to come up with so many reasons not to lynch LastWhisper when day 3 rolls around?
As someone who literally wrote an article and has gone to great lengths to defeat flavor gaming,there is a time and place for paying attention to whether a role fits the setup, and it's feasibility. You don't use flavor to assess alignment, given the prevalence of fake claims and bastard mods, but if you have two claims to assess for truthfulness, and one of which is a finely crafted, detailed, very difficult to fake claim that perfectly matches its flavor, versus someone claiming to be, say, Littlefinger, town doctor in Game of thrones mafia, one of these answers is going to sound like a more plausible setup fit than the other.
Assessing claims for whether or not they sound truthful or like a lie isn't flavor gaming, it's setup analysis. And that has its dangers and pitfalls too, but this casual handwaved of yours, terming these reactions as "weird" to tar them instead of explaining how they come from a scum mindset - these are classic scum tells out of you. Couple that with throwing potshots at me, but refusing to dig in and make it a broader confrontation that could risk your life, and I still don't care for what I'm seeing from you, GJ.
Also, very tempted to state my town reads aloud, because there are a lot of obvious tells coming out, but I think they're probably still best discussed via secret chat, given this particular setup.
If the wrong person gets strung up, I'll say something, probably as we get towards endgame that becomes unavoidable, but I think I'd much rather concentrate on scum targets at this stage.
A STORY IS TOLD OF King Victor, he who conquered the inland territories that became eventually the Duchy of Farrow. Very shortly after adding the lands of Sandsedge to his rulings, he sent for the woman who would, had Victor not conquered her land, have been the Queen of Sandsedge.
She traveled to Buckkeep in much trepidation, fearing to go, but fearing more the consequences to her people if she appealed to them to hide her. When she arrived, she was both amazed and somewhat chagrined that Victor intended to use her not as a servant but as a tutor to his children, that they might learn both the language and customs of her folk. When she asked him why he chose to have them learn of her folk’s ways, he replied, “A ruler must be of all his people, for one can only rule what one knows.” Later she became the willing wife of his eldest son and took the name Queen Graciousness at her coronation.
Cropcircles (4): Iso, KJ, Wisp, GJ
BoomFrog (2): Vaimes, Cuth
Last Whisper (2): Highroller, Tubba
Iso (1): Bur
Gentleman Johnny (1): Sloth
Slothful (1): Az
Azrael (1): Silver
Tubba (1): Rhand
Not Voting (5): WMU, Tammy, Cantrip, BoomFrog, CropCircles
With 18 alive it takes 10 to condemn.
If using abbreviations and nicknames in the vote counts is a problem for anyone please let me know.
I am following up on low activity but given the world at large I am reluctant to issue hard prods. I am endeavoring to keep activity up but please be patient as well.
If the VC is wrong please PM me or message me on discord. Thanks!
Hey, I'm replacing ChadMD. I'm new to the forum but experienced at mafia. I don't have time tonight to play, but I'll try to read everything from this point forward
N1 he only does 1 or 3 damage, but N2 he's up to 3-9 damage total, depending, and N3 he's dealt 6-18 damage
where exactly are you pulling these numbers from?
D1: Ping Cuth.
N1: Bleed Cuth for 1 or 3. (You're either back at 7 or at 9.)
D2: Ping Target2. (You're at 6 or 8.)
N2: Bleed Cuth for 1 or 3 (total of 2 or 6) and Target2 for 1 or 3. (You're at 8, 12, or 14.)
D3: Ping Target3. (You're at 7, 11, or 13.)
N3: Bleed Cuth for 1 or 3 (total of 3 or 9), Target2 for 1 or 3 (total of 2 or 6), and Target3 for 1 or 3.
Unless one of the three has already died, you've dealt a minimum of 6 damage/maximum of 18 (although on the maximum front, you've probably killed Cuth or Target2). You're also potentially somewhere between 10 and 21 vitality (again, adjusted down if any of your targets died and/or you lost vitality in other ways).
That feels pretty dangerous in general, and possibly so swingy as to be unbelievable, especially if you hadn't claimed out of the blue and just secretly gone on a vampiric killing spree. A 4th Night is almost guaranteed Cuth/Target2/probably Target3 dead and more damage to a fourth target. Am I misunderstanding how your abilities work?
That’s really the nothingburger question you want to ask me? I said it because Tubba isn’t going to entertain hypothetical worlds where he’s mafia, and he typically isn’t a high priority kill.
Now divine my alignment from that answer.
I asked because in 626 it sounded like you were counting "us villagers" and coming up with 16, which is (obviously) silly. But you corrected that in 629 and--still presumably counting town players, regardless of whether you're coming from your perspective or pretending to be Tubba--started at 18, subtracted "the self" (17) subtracted the mafia (assuming 4) (13), and subtract the neutral (12). If you're trying to emphasize how many town there are in the game (and therefore how silly it is to get worked up about one or two of them dying), then subtracting the (obviously, from either your personal perspective or you-being-Tubba perspective) doesn't help. It would feel more natural to say "why worry about 1-2 town when there are 13 in the game". I just don't understand why you'd subtract the self when trying to make that point.
As for your alignment, I had you pretty high on my list to start, but then when I iso'd your posts, there wasn't a lot there, so I'm re-evaluating. Your subtracting the self comment didn't feel like something that would come from a town mentality (and your explanation doesn't feel natural, either).
@Cantrip
once I bleed them, they lose the charm I believe? I'll ask and get back to you, since I kinda just assumed that wasn't a thing since that's so powerful
@Cantrip
once I bleed them, they lose the charm I believe? I'll ask and get back to you, since I kinda just assumed that wasn't a thing since that's so powerful
@Cantrip
ya I take the charm away on use, so not that swingy lol
I haven't seen whatever it is from Iso I'm supposed to respond to.
Silver's analysis regarding the number of players implying a neutral role is also spot on.
The only thing that worries me is LW's statement that he thinks we can't win unless he's left the game. That makes me want to go reread my PM real fast.
uhh are you SURE you haven't seen what it is that I'm requesting a response from you on? I'm skeptical, given...well, you'd know if you knew what I'm talking about.
My Cropcircles read isn’t gone but Cropcircles is. He should be our lynch toDay and probably will be.
That doesn’t mean I should leave my vote parked on him all Day, I move it when I think I see another scum and will do so again when I see another one.
There are multiple mafia to be found.
There is a point when you've caught scum and flopping your vote around actively starts to hurt the town.
What has CropCircles done that strikes you as coming from a town-motivated perspective?
Early game, tone was decent and right at the beginning of day 1 of the Wisp saga, Crop was making some points that were what I was thinking. But now that we are ~7 days away from deadline, and I feel like there is way too much waffling coming from that slot.
I can dig it.
-
I'm gonna send Grapefruit a request to include the number of votes it takes to oust a player in his votecounts.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
As someone who literally wrote an article and has gone to great lengths to defeat flavor gaming,there is a time and place for paying attention to whether a role fits the setup, and it's feasibility. You don't use flavor to assess alignment, given the prevalence of fake claims and bastard mods, but if you have two claims to assess for truthfulness, and one of which is a finely crafted, detailed, very difficult to fake claim that perfectly matches its flavor, versus someone claiming to be, say, Littlefinger, town doctor in Game of thrones mafia, one of these answers is going to sound like a more plausible setup fit than the other.
Assessing claims for whether or not they sound truthful or like a lie isn't flavor gaming, it's setup analysis. And that has its dangers and pitfalls too, but this casual handwaved of yours, terming these reactions as "weird" to tar them instead of explaining how they come from a scum mindset - these are classic scum tells out of you. Couple that with throwing potshots at me, but refusing to dig in and make it a broader confrontation that could risk your life, and I still don't care for what I'm seeing from you, GJ.
Flavor should never be used for actual solving or figuring out the truthfulness of a role, which is why in games where it possibly can, false claims are given. That article was from an arcadic time where a host could accidently get his game solved with too much flavor.
As someone who spent his dying breathe in an invitational screaming I was aa wolf, and someone who won't even go into more detail on just some naked posts, I don't really think there is anything I could post you would care about, even if you are town.
Also, very tempted to state my town reads aloud, because there are a lot of obvious tells coming out, but I think they're probably still best discussed via secret chat, given this particular setup.
Even if you were an IC, this would be a god awful strat. Your reads aren't infalliable if you split, secret chat isn't guaranteed to be v/v, gives an illusion of solving without actually providing anything. Basically everything about this post is just bad.
Quote from LW »
interjection here, I still refuse to believe Chad wrote that post
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
We have approximately 7 days, 5 and a half hours to come to a consensus to come to a decision, and there are clearly people who cannot post every day. Now I am fine with where the votes are, but yeah, being on the not voting at this stage is a bad look.
I'd rather see votes than no votes. Not voting greater than wasting. Like if you don't think CC is the way forward, start pushing why we go someone else.
also @Vaimes
my chad meta read was mostly a jest, don't use it, not that Chad can't be a wolf, but what exactly is keeping a vote on someone that is in the process of being replaced going to do? do you really believe that post, is "that" wolfy, to warrant not pressuring others who are still here, and are still lacking consistent or new thoughts, aka Bur/Circles?
I guess it depends on whether or not you think a dead scum with no content is worth killing, versus letting the replacement fluff around for a Day or two.
I'll be honest this scenario is so similar to Jackrito last game that I didn't really want to move my vote, even though we're overwhelmingly likely to kill [anyone else].
I asked because in 626 it sounded like you were counting "us villagers" and coming up with 16, which is (obviously) silly. But you corrected that in 629 and--still presumably counting town players, regardless of whether you're coming from your perspective or pretending to be Tubba--started at 18, subtracted "the self" (17) subtracted the mafia (assuming 4) (13), and subtract the neutral (12). If you're trying to emphasize how many town there are in the game (and therefore how silly it is to get worked up about one or two of them dying), then subtracting the (obviously, from either your personal perspective or you-being-Tubba perspective) doesn't help. It would feel more natural to say "why worry about 1-2 town when there are 13 in the game". I just don't understand why you'd subtract the self when trying to make that point.
I don't really see how this matters, unless you think idk I'm scum that accidentally slipped Tubba's town? I don't think it's all that weird, I try to look at it from an outsider's perspective when counting bodies/alignments, so I used "self" rather than "you" or "me."
As for your alignment, I had you pretty high on my list to start, but then when I iso'd your posts, there wasn't a lot there, so I'm re-evaluating. Your subtracting the self comment didn't feel like something that would come from a town mentality (and your explanation doesn't feel natural, either). @Vaimes @Rhand Both of you think that phrase, coming from "it's the world versus me" HR in particular, is indicative of him being scum?
??????????
Okay so am I scum or not? I would like a direct answer.
I think I've made my thoughts on the game pretty clear. Is there anything you disagree with?
also @Vaimes
my chad meta read was mostly a jest, don't use it, not that Chad can't be a wolf, but what exactly is keeping a vote on someone that is in the process of being replaced going to do? do you really believe that post, is "that" wolfy, to warrant not pressuring others who are still here, and are still lacking consistent or new thoughts, aka Bur/Circles?
I guess it depends on whether or not you think a dead scum with no content is worth killing, versus letting the replacement fluff around for a Day or two.
I'll be honest this scenario is so similar to Jackrito last game that I didn't really want to move my vote, even though we're overwhelmingly likely to kill [anyone else].
I do not really remember that scenario
but at this point, I am assuming you believe Chad is indefinitely outted from his vote on Cantrip?
honestly, I do kinda have a chad/cantrip itch that really needs scratching
We have approximately 7 days, 5 and a half hours to come to a consensus to come to a decision, and there are clearly people who cannot post every day. Now I am fine with where the votes are, but yeah, being on the not voting at this stage is a bad look.
I'd rather see votes than no votes. Not voting greater than wasting. Like if you don't think CC is the way forward, start pushing why we go someone else.
I agree with this post, but we already lost two possible town? votes, since not voting me isn't really going to happen based on their game theory worlds.
There really isn't a reason to not push this into claim range, given everyone thoughts, and then we can move forward from there, by this, I mean CC.
Quote from GJ »
What are you implying?
nothing its a joke
@Cantrip
do you believe in perspective slips?
@Highroller
my daily, ok boomer, as well as, "I think I've seen the post before"
I do not really remember that scenario
but at this point, I am assuming you believe Chad is indefinitely outted from his vote on Cantrip?
Literally the exact same. Jack lied about his read on me early on Day 1 but had to replace out before he could respond to the criticism. His replacement coasted for like two~ Day phases.
Although this example is less extreme. I had proof from the game before that one that Jack was lying, whereas here I guess it's possible Chad just felt like criticising Cantrip without actually having read his post? If was super busy or something? But I put that likelihood at like 15%, being generous.
Silver's analysis regarding the number of players implying a neutral role is also spot on.
The only thing that worries me is LW's statement that he thinks we can't win unless he's left the game. That makes me want to go reread my PM real fast.
the way he's playing this game is exactly like v!wisp mindset
i'm not talking about wincons or anything
just
it's wisp against the world, to an extent
and his reactions and all check out quite a bit
i also think highroller is very probably town; i think the confidence/depth of thought is going in directions and in ways that aren't very natural for wolves to do in most gamestates, and i don't think in this one
You have an actual mechanical reason for being so adamant about lynching Wisp and GJ doesn’t believe lynching D1 is necessary to begin with.
And yes, I did miss at first that you were also so sold on lynching Wisp at first. Mea culpa. I’m not sure why you perceive that as a scumtell though. What would make mafia!me miss that but town!me not?
GJ’s frustration IS different than in Matter because in Matter he felt that the setup was stacked against him. He wasn’t showing frustration on Day 1.
My Cropcircles read isn’t gone but Cropcircles is. He should be our lynch toDay and probably will be.
That doesn’t mean I should leave my vote parked on him all Day, I move it when I think I see another scum and will do so again when I see another one.
There are multiple mafia to be found.
It’s Day 1. I have no idea why you’re looking for consistency to start with. Day 1 is where you go after people when you see something that could mean something and drop it when it doesn’t.
Maybe it’s playstyle difference that makes you think I have bad intentions with you? All I want is for you to talk about other people than Wisp.
I guess you did now with your post about me so eh ok, I will leave you alone. I’m not going to have any impact on you when you think I’m mafia.
@Tammy / Vaimes: you might want to take over the getting Highroller to form more reads thing, he’s not gonna listen to me.
He leaves the game when he has his wincon so yeh, winning without leaving is impossible. Which is why also in our wincon he can’t be alive at the end of the game. We can however, if we get rid of all mafia and still have enough townies to support it, choose to let him win with us by just offering him the remaining target(s).
Mafia can do the same though, which is why he can’t be allowed to live past Day 3 or so.
That actually is how we won our game on MC. It had a hitman with 4 targets: 2 town, 2 mafia. And a chat mechanic. The town targets were already dead and we (mafia) offered the hitman to win with us by helping him kill the two mafia players while he helped us push town past lylo first.
Completely irrelevant.
I think Az isn't the first and wouldn't be the last person to try to flavor game instead of actually solving.
You actually had. I took over for her role in Annorax's Star Trek mafia.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I like Rhands take on Highroller. It feels like he is applying his logic in a town way, and not trying to turn it to anything maniacal.
100% incorrect. It is subjectively bad. Yall pretending that a neutral claim couldn't be fake.
I mean, objectively it wasn't. He said he won the game off of it.
I really don't like this post. Mostly because I think it's long winded (in comparison to the other people) saying the exact same thing that regardless of wisp, Highroller doesn't really read wolf for this push. Even this part:
This doesn't strike me as someone actively hunting. This strikes me as someone looking to coast and join a wagon, not find a target to get other people to follow.
Unvote SIlver, Vote CropCircles42
Early game, tone was decent and right at the beginning of day 1 of the Wisp saga, Crop was making some points that were what I was thinking. But now that we are ~7 days away from deadline, and I feel like there is way too much waffling coming from that slot.
Think I mostly caught up. Really haven't been super impressed with Cuth over the last few days. Read his posts, and the only thing that kind of stuck out was him being said Vaimes didn't trust him. KJ hasn't wowed me with town vibes either. I like my Rhand read a little more, and Az's comment of how good it was to analyze was this setup means for numbers hits my ear wrong as well. Back to full GJ power. I've learned to let go again.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
You think Azrael is a villager using flavor gaming to defend a wolf, or like
You just blew past it without thinking about the question at all or
What, I'm being very unsuccessful at getting into your headspace right now
Because I thought you'd at least consider Azrael might be a partner there but you just kinda blew me off instead
Hum
I dunno man sounds sus, as the kids say these days
Yeah, the second he started going into flavor town, I stopped caring. I don't think it's necessary a wolfy trait, but it isn't something I really think it's worth it to do. Maybe Grape didn't think his neutral would claim, but per Rhand/Highroller, it seems like neutrals claiming is a very common thing to the point the town comes up with 10,000 reasons to keep them around.
And no silver, you aren't taking my head space right now. You haven't really don't anything to change my mind, I just think other people have done worse.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I'm trying to understand the mindset that could make town!GJ go "man Azrael sounds weird" and in almost the same breath say "his flavor gaming is NAI even though he used it to defend someone else I think is a wolf"
It's really simple. Flavor gaming = NAI and GJ's brain shutdown. Even if I am wrong and wisp is neutral, I don't really think that affects my Az read. You really think wolves, especially ones who have played as long as Az don't try to connect the dots?
Obviously, if LW flips wolf, I am much more wolfy on Az then. But until that happens I am not assuming anything. I even think Az could do this as a wolf even if LW is neutral. Probably the post that still has me eyebrow raising is where he just posted a bunch of posts he thought were wolfy that Vaimes translated, with seemingly no explanation. I don't know how much credence to give that due to his obvious personal decision tree, but he has just been hitting weird vibes for. I could see his flavor point coming from either alignment, which is why I was not regarding it.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Don't like the bolded. Feels super forced.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
But if you're going to argue that his flip doesn't really help much, then I would also be happy with anyone on my low list (Bur, CC, Cantrip).
You have the 2nd highest post count only to LW. I don't think you are in danger of being prodded.:p
I don't want to deal with Chad because my spicy take is that he is town. I know LW had some meta read of Chad posting walls is a wolf trait, but that seems silly to me. But sell me on it, because my pulse of the game is Chad doesn't happen, especially if a replacement is found.
Lynchwise, my short list is Cropcircles, LW, Silver, Wakemeup in descending order. Bur/Tubba have been down trending for me lately, but not enough that I don't care to see a flip today.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Chad had a fake vote on Cantrip and replaced out without justifying it. If wallposts a tick towards the negative, even better, but I don't care much about that angle because it's not my view.
I thought this particular couple of lines read townie. He basically compliments sloth vote, but completely dials it back calling me town. Maybe a wolf gets tricky, but that seems genuine thought to me, and not just manufactured to look like it. He could have either gone shadier on sloth if he wanted to push him, or hard barn him, and start finding posts of mine to dislike if he wanted me.
Maybe he makes this post where he and LW rand wolf, but I don't see why he puts pressure off potential mislynches if he is a wolf, and LW is not.
That's pretty much it. I didn't think he was a strong town read, but I also don't get why people are wolf reading him. Just comes off strange to me. But I felt like he was a thinking player making the wall. His last post before replacement was a bit meh, admittedly (way too focused on RVS) but there seems to be a sub theme of this game, so I didn't give it that much thought.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
do I think he is obvious wolf, no, do I think that post makes him any bit town, also no
also @Vaimes
my chad meta read was mostly a jest, don't use it, not that Chad can't be a wolf, but what exactly is keeping a vote on someone that is in the process of being replaced going to do? do you really believe that post, is "that" wolfy, to warrant not pressuring others who are still here, and are still lacking consistent or new thoughts, aka Bur/Circles?
@Silvercry
I mean you can tonally dislike someone, but still like their thoughts as a whole, or believe certain aspects of their thoughts are NAI? I don't know I just don't see this as that big of a deal.
in regards to Chad, and vaimes thoughts on his Cantrip vote, ya it was kinda bad, but still meh, I wish I had more to read him on, but I don't and until he gets a replacement I don't believe one post and only one post is sufficient enough to argue he should indefinitely die today
How much of my V!mindset do you even have experience with? given you saw it once, and we were opposite alignments, but is that really enough?
@ me any questions and I'll hit 'em then, I dont see me doing my regular multi-post responses by virtue of volume and laziness.
twice
birdthing
C'mon, buddy, you're going to have to be a lot more deceptive than this.
For you to jump on Tubba immediately after declaring to the entire town that they should be voting CropCircles is a terrible look. Oh look, now he thinks it's a fabulous idea to let him kill towns. Yeah, he's definitely trustworthy. First of all, yes.
Second, it's not objectively bad, it is objectively beneficial. Either LastWhisper is actually a neutral, or he's mafia. If he's mafia, well then lynching him seriously screws over the mafia. If he's neutral, then we're effectively starting Day 1 over with one less hostile and 18+ pages of posts to analyze, which is objectively better than the position we're in right now.
There is no drawback to lynching LastWhisper, and in doing so we'll either be significantly better off if he's neutral, and overwhelmingly better off if he's mafia.
But no, we should let him live until day 3 for no reason at all. Nevermind the fact that his role clearly is to kill towns. Nevermind that, based on LastWhisper's description of these people, they might be power roles of some sort.
But there I go making sense again. I know you all hate that.
Who else wants to bet that these people falling over themselves to defend LastWhisper are suddenly going to come up with so many reasons not to lynch LastWhisper when day 3 rolls around?
Assessing claims for whether or not they sound truthful or like a lie isn't flavor gaming, it's setup analysis. And that has its dangers and pitfalls too, but this casual handwaved of yours, terming these reactions as "weird" to tar them instead of explaining how they come from a scum mindset - these are classic scum tells out of you. Couple that with throwing potshots at me, but refusing to dig in and make it a broader confrontation that could risk your life, and I still don't care for what I'm seeing from you, GJ.
If the wrong person gets strung up, I'll say something, probably as we get towards endgame that becomes unavoidable, but I think I'd much rather concentrate on scum targets at this stage.
A STORY IS TOLD OF King Victor, he who conquered the inland territories that became eventually the Duchy of Farrow. Very shortly after adding the lands of Sandsedge to his rulings, he sent for the woman who would, had Victor not conquered her land, have been the Queen of Sandsedge.
She traveled to Buckkeep in much trepidation, fearing to go, but fearing more the consequences to her people if she appealed to them to hide her. When she arrived, she was both amazed and somewhat chagrined that Victor intended to use her not as a servant but as a tutor to his children, that they might learn both the language and customs of her folk. When she asked him why he chose to have them learn of her folk’s ways, he replied, “A ruler must be of all his people, for one can only rule what one knows.” Later she became the willing wife of his eldest son and took the name Queen Graciousness at her coronation.
Cropcircles (4): Iso, KJ, Wisp, GJ
BoomFrog (2): Vaimes, Cuth
Last Whisper (2): Highroller, Tubba
Iso (1): Bur
Gentleman Johnny (1): Sloth
Slothful (1): Az
Azrael (1): Silver
Tubba (1): Rhand
Not Voting (5): WMU, Tammy, Cantrip, BoomFrog, CropCircles
With 18 alive it takes 10 to condemn.
If using abbreviations and nicknames in the vote counts is a problem for anyone please let me know.
I am following up on low activity but given the world at large I am reluctant to issue hard prods. I am endeavoring to keep activity up but please be patient as well.
If the VC is wrong please PM me or message me on discord. Thanks!
eeyy, I remember you from Smashboards, whats up
N1: Bleed Cuth for 1 or 3. (You're either back at 7 or at 9.)
D2: Ping Target2. (You're at 6 or 8.)
N2: Bleed Cuth for 1 or 3 (total of 2 or 6) and Target2 for 1 or 3. (You're at 8, 12, or 14.)
D3: Ping Target3. (You're at 7, 11, or 13.)
N3: Bleed Cuth for 1 or 3 (total of 3 or 9), Target2 for 1 or 3 (total of 2 or 6), and Target3 for 1 or 3.
Unless one of the three has already died, you've dealt a minimum of 6 damage/maximum of 18 (although on the maximum front, you've probably killed Cuth or Target2). You're also potentially somewhere between 10 and 21 vitality (again, adjusted down if any of your targets died and/or you lost vitality in other ways).
That feels pretty dangerous in general, and possibly so swingy as to be unbelievable, especially if you hadn't claimed out of the blue and just secretly gone on a vampiric killing spree. A 4th Night is almost guaranteed Cuth/Target2/probably Target3 dead and more damage to a fourth target. Am I misunderstanding how your abilities work?
I asked because in 626 it sounded like you were counting "us villagers" and coming up with 16, which is (obviously) silly. But you corrected that in 629 and--still presumably counting town players, regardless of whether you're coming from your perspective or pretending to be Tubba--started at 18, subtracted "the self" (17) subtracted the mafia (assuming 4) (13), and subtract the neutral (12). If you're trying to emphasize how many town there are in the game (and therefore how silly it is to get worked up about one or two of them dying), then subtracting the (obviously, from either your personal perspective or you-being-Tubba perspective) doesn't help. It would feel more natural to say "why worry about 1-2 town when there are 13 in the game". I just don't understand why you'd subtract the self when trying to make that point.
As for your alignment, I had you pretty high on my list to start, but then when I iso'd your posts, there wasn't a lot there, so I'm re-evaluating. Your subtracting the self comment didn't feel like something that would come from a town mentality (and your explanation doesn't feel natural, either).
@Vaimes @Rhand Both of you think that phrase, coming from "it's the world versus me" HR in particular, is indicative of him being scum?
??????????
So not fully realizing the game mechanic once is understandable (I didn't). But you already had this "epiphany" a few pages back:
How did you forget that already?
Welcome, @Boomfrog.
I've been absolutely slammed irl, but I should have some more time tomorrow to dig a little deeper than just a catch up.
once I bleed them, they lose the charm I believe? I'll ask and get back to you, since I kinda just assumed that wasn't a thing since that's so powerful
ya I take the charm away on use, so not that swingy lol
I knew you had it in you.
uhh are you SURE you haven't seen what it is that I'm requesting a response from you on? I'm skeptical, given...well, you'd know if you knew what I'm talking about.
There is a point when you've caught scum and flopping your vote around actively starts to hurt the town.
My hero.
I can dig it.
-
I'm gonna send Grapefruit a request to include the number of votes it takes to oust a player in his votecounts.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
-
@Az: Don't feel TOO bad about it - I almost forgot what it was that I wanted you to respond to, too.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The scumteam should come out and play. I think they’re all on the second page of the postcount.
Flavor should never be used for actual solving or figuring out the truthfulness of a role, which is why in games where it possibly can, false claims are given. That article was from an arcadic time where a host could accidently get his game solved with too much flavor.
As someone who spent his dying breathe in an invitational screaming I was aa wolf, and someone who won't even go into more detail on just some naked posts, I don't really think there is anything I could post you would care about, even if you are town.
Even if you were an IC, this would be a god awful strat. Your reads aren't infalliable if you split, secret chat isn't guaranteed to be v/v, gives an illusion of solving without actually providing anything. Basically everything about this post is just bad.
What are you implying?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I don't disagree with this either.
I think anyone not voting is making solving this game even harder.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I'd rather not have yet another CFD, frankly.
I...what? I'm not saying "don't vote". I'm saying "don't waste your vote".
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'd rather see votes than no votes. Not voting greater than wasting. Like if you don't think CC is the way forward, start pushing why we go someone else.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
- I guess it depends on whether or not you think a dead scum with no content is worth killing, versus letting the replacement fluff around for a Day or two.
I'll be honest this scenario is so similar to Jackrito last game that I didn't really want to move my vote, even though we're overwhelmingly likely to kill [anyone else].
Okay so am I scum or not? I would like a direct answer.
I think I've made my thoughts on the game pretty clear. Is there anything you disagree with?
but at this point, I am assuming you believe Chad is indefinitely outted from his vote on Cantrip?
honestly, I do kinda have a chad/cantrip itch that really needs scratching I agree with this post, but we already lost two possible town? votes, since not voting me isn't really going to happen based on their game theory worlds.
There really isn't a reason to not push this into claim range, given everyone thoughts, and then we can move forward from there, by this, I mean CC.
nothing its a joke
@Cantrip
do you believe in perspective slips?
@Highroller
my daily, ok boomer, as well as, "I think I've seen the post before"
Although this example is less extreme. I had proof from the game before that one that Jack was lying, whereas here I guess it's possible Chad just felt like criticising Cantrip without actually having read his post? If was super busy or something? But I put that likelihood at like 15%, being generous.