Vaimes, I'm not exactly against voting Tubba but mind giving me a short tl;dr why is he scum?
To be honest, I don’t have any reason for anyone being scum right now.
I heard his song and dance about how he watches and waits and scumhunts in the background, but we’re nearing endgame and I have to raise the standard for what constitutes a villager here.
I liked his post-NDE reads and I liked him snapping back at me but that’s it, there’s nothing else there.
Like is there any player you can point to and say “yes that will flip mafia?” Because I am all ears.
I could maybe vote Sloth because I don’t think he really believes what Anak has done is scum-indicative, but I’ve liked him otherwise.
I keep flipping on Cuth and bessie. I liked bessie pointing out that he could be manipulating me into feeding him reasons to scumread her.
At this point I’m even considering rereading Tammy. When nothing makes sense it’s usually because there’s a big misclear, but I don’t think widening their POE is what we need right now.
it's a good thing I don't really care about your opinion this late into the game, since after watching you get snowed by two of the most obvious wolves I have ever seen.
(He might/probably be/is a wolf as well)
who knows exactly why Azreal came to the conclusion he did, I am looking at Anak's posts, and this is day 4, easily game-end if we mis-execute here, and he pulls the, "we are probably going to lose because of my mistake", k
I mean it's super hard to draw the line between town and wolves saying stuff like that, but on day 4 lylo? nah
Tubba has also been extremely re-active this game to be fair also
it's a good thing I don't really care about your opinion this late into the game, since after watching you get snowed by two of the most obvious wolves I have ever seen.
(He might/probably be/is a wolf as well)
who knows exactly why Azreal came to the conclusion he did, I am looking at Anak's posts, and this is day 4, easily game-end if we mis-execute here, and he pulls the, "we are probably going to lose because of my mistake", k
I mean it's super hard to draw the line between town and wolves saying stuff like that, but on day 4 lylo? nah
Tubba has also been extremely re-active this game to be fair also
Ok can you stop *****ting on me literally every chance you get. Like honestly get some new material.
ok ok, my bad, I'll drop the joke at this point
We need to work together anyways if you are town
I do like bessie a little more, but I still don't understand her point on me and Cuth
Cuth is a bit different, since he still can't really tell me why people are wolves, it's mostly him just saying why people don't have to be town
@Vaimes
this game has obviously been frustrating, because everytime we get somewhere, people start hedging
so like I am just at a loss of what to do, there is very little chance town wins this game, if this continues to be the path
I could maybe vote Sloth because I don’t think he really believes what Anak has done is scum-indicative, but I’ve liked him otherwise.
I keep flipping on Cuth and bessie. I liked bessie pointing out that he could be manipulating me into feeding him reasons to scumread her.
At this point I’m even considering rereading Tammy. When nothing makes sense it’s usually because there’s a big misclear, but I don’t think widening their POE is what we need right now.
in case you seriously think that line of reasoning is at all solid, here's what's going on big picture: given my spot in the game and who's been pushing whom, i feel like i have a finger on the pulse of a pretty small poe, and given the size even if i'm wrong on one person i don't think i'm wrong on all the people i see doing things like this
i have literally no reason to prompt you for reasons to dunk on bessie, you're perfectly aware of most of them yourself (i think there are not that many red flags as such but a lot of general direction/narrative context clues) and it's not like me not doing work so that i can have you do whatever and just vaguely hint is at all my style or would be that effective here
the thing i was specifically being cryptic about on sunday was how bessie/sloth/tubba have all responded to my suspicion, which I've pretty clearly established as being based on a more holistic perception of the game and votes and such, and been like "dude this is nothing you have nothing there are no REASONS" and like been super defensive and all "zomg how do you know it's four wolves" "lol this is ridiculous" instead of just ignoring me or actually try to argue that i'm a wolf for literally anything other than, well, not explaining my reasoning in depth to them personally upon demand
me not answering their questions is not because i can't justify them if i put the work in, it's because that grouping contains at the very least two wolves unless i'm super wrong on at least one of you/kj/tammy, and i'd rather spend time interacting with y'all and pointing you towards the things i see (i haven't done a fantastic job of this but sue me) than argue with wolves about pointless nothings, because obviously they're not going to agree that basically all of them have ingenuine and constructed progressions on basically all of their reads and have done little other than push villagers (and continue to do so in what could genuinely be mylo, and i pointed this out first), and have absolutely garbage explanations for why they're all pushing me/anak specifically over ANY of each other when there are literally four wolves and those people have been in the poe and not particularly villagery at all all game
literally the majority of my reasoning for having the reads i do, and i can promise this would not change
I can't give the benefit of the doubt to everyone. I have no real solid reason for picking Tubba, just that I see him as having more wolf equity than Anak.
Say what you want about misreads, but I cannot fathom Anak getting read the way he did by Azrael and then messing it up three times back to back. Maybe, if the first time was a mistake and he decided to "oh whoops I did a thing" two more times to garner sympathy, idfk.
Tubba's post-NDE readslist made me feel like I could see into his head, and it's like one of the few posts of his that really shine. Whether or not I think it's enough to completely clear him is a different conversation.
Sorry for the delayed post, I just kinda super don’t give a ***** anymore and it’s hard to WIM at this point.
I’m Nighteyes Town Wit Companion. I can spend 2 vitality to open a second wit pairing, and can transfer the messages I receive to anyone I’m witted with in addition to my own message. I targeted Johnny N1 and asked who he thought I should link. He wasn’t sure, suggested Iso or Tammy. After I threw my hands up when he was just going to shrug vote me, I didn’t really care anymore but when I noticed I was still alive, I picked Sloth because he wanted Az more than me and no offence to Tammy or Anak, but I’m pretty sure I think Tammy is town and Iso wasn’t towny to me and Anak is tainted by that still.
Vaimes is not likely to be scum, I would be dead if he was and there’s no reason to worry about my legacy if he’s scum.
Nigh lockTown
Tammy
Sloth
Vaimes
Townish
Cantrip
Highroller
Anak
Slime
Bur
KJ
Cuth
Az
@Wisp
Hopefully, my role explains my eagerness to remove you, however with us being so far behind, I’m not worried about you any more and wish you the best of luck.
My scum reads are based largely on the no lynch yesterday. It cleared Vaimes who I was iffy on and makes Az and by extension Anak look a little worse. Cuth is not leaving my scum pile until he does a single Towny thing, and KJ needs to do anything.
@Bur I would’ve never guessed that you had difficulty with English and can assure you that any reads I have are based on what you are saying/doing, not how you are. You’re where you are for similar reasons to KJ in that I don’t feel any urgency to move the game in any direction.
@All I apologise for the “popularity contest” remark, it was unwarranted and immature but it was incredibly disheartening to see all the shrug votes.
Vote Az Vote Cuth
I think this is a good post from Tubba. If I had to be nitpicky, I would say that it's weird he has Sloth as locktown without ever mentioning him in any meaningful capacity. His ISO is devoid of any Sloth read.
Dude this question is ridiculous. What in the hell makes you think mafia's protecting him?
What in the hell makes you think that they haven't? If the mafia support killing Wisp, where are the votes to back this up?
What I mean is that it's not like there's been a set, small group of specific players preventing a wisp yeet throughout this game.
Most players have, some of the confirmed town by now, and it's not like it's possible for all the others to be town. Wisp's survival to D4, not counting Night Actions, is not machinated by scum. Where you do you see the contradiction in this?
Someone explain how in the **** you interpret letting Wisp win as "eliminating" him, when it sounds a lot like the exact logical opposite of that.
This probably comes down to site culture honestly.
I don't remember any games in this site so far where a 3rder role had a win condition (that didn't require them outliving other factions) that didn't allow them to win with town/scum.
If this is the first one, great, but I'm not really bothering with it.
Can someone actually explain to this Anak case to me?
I've been drive-by playing last few days and what I've understood, it boils down to Anak saying his role was confirmed to Az and then later it turns out it wasn't?
Especially @sloth: what makes this scum!Anak lying about this role instead of town!Anak just not understanding properly his role?
Actual contradictory statements of their actions, for one.
Demonstrated play when Az was around that doesn't rely on misunderstanding, simply common sense, for two.
Like, I think I've gone over this in detail in two or three posts, so ISO me. KJ even stated that it was pretty accurate, which I remember stuck out to me because I don't think ultimate-nitpicker-KJ (which is something I admire in your play btw, not an insult, KJ) has ever complimented my thoroughness before, which was neat.
I am choosing not to comment on Anak's #3841 as of now, but probably will nearer to eoD.
I’m not totally sold on the scum!Anak narrative. I’d like to be, because it boots Wisp out of the yeet pool, but I have an ugly feeling about it.
You’re telling me Anak finesses the **** outta Az, to the point where he bent over backwards to defend Anak, only for Anak to completely flub his role claim three times in endgame.
It doesn’t sound real.
There are two logical inconsistencies on what is being claimed unfolded between Anak and Az, and you're choosing to focus on the least likely one imo.
And I think it's more likely to be a misunderstanding/mistake than a calculated answer, because I don't think he even necessarily needed to reveal the other parts of his role he misunderstood. If he's scum, then he's just doing it to garner sympathy.
The way I see it, he didn't even answer the original question. "Did you tell Az [about the vit]?" > "Az knew, yes."
That he did not claim to try to save Az, the BP. Especially having started the day with a claim that his ability is worthless with Az dead.
Even if Az didn't know where the vit came from, he could have confirmed it's true and we would not be having this conversation about Anak in that case. At all.
The Tammy thing I still have problems with and I've spoken on why, but yeah, it's weird.
Also <redacted> Yo, reminder to come back and talk about this future Sloth.
the thing i was specifically being cryptic about on sunday was how bessie/sloth/tubba have all responded to my suspicion, which I've pretty clearly established as being based on a more holistic perception of the game and votes and such, and been like "dude this is nothing you have nothing there are no REASONS" and like been super defensive and all "zomg how do you know it's four wolves" "lol this is ridiculous" instead of just ignoring me or actually try to argue that i'm a wolf for literally anything other than, well, not explaining my reasoning in depth to them personally upon demand
At the risk of proving you right, I'm going to not ignore this: Why am I in this grouping?
I know that you grouped the three of us together since the beginning of/before D4, but in relevance to this paragraph, I don't think I dismissed you or acted super defensive and the insinuation here is that I did, correct?
Sorry for the delayed post, I just kinda super don’t give a ***** anymore and it’s hard to WIM at this point.
I’m Nighteyes Town Wit Companion. I can spend 2 vitality to open a second wit pairing, and can transfer the messages I receive to anyone I’m witted with in addition to my own message. I targeted Johnny N1 and asked who he thought I should link. He wasn’t sure, suggested Iso or Tammy. After I threw my hands up when he was just going to shrug vote me, I didn’t really care anymore but when I noticed I was still alive, I picked Sloth because he wanted Az more than me and no offence to Tammy or Anak, but I’m pretty sure I think Tammy is town and Iso wasn’t towny to me and Anak is tainted by that still.
Vaimes is not likely to be scum, I would be dead if he was and there’s no reason to worry about my legacy if he’s scum.
Nigh lockTown
Tammy
Sloth
Vaimes
Townish
Cantrip
Highroller
Anak
Slime
Bur
KJ
Cuth
Az
@Wisp
Hopefully, my role explains my eagerness to remove you, however with us being so far behind, I’m not worried about you any more and wish you the best of luck.
My scum reads are based largely on the no lynch yesterday. It cleared Vaimes who I was iffy on and makes Az and by extension Anak look a little worse. Cuth is not leaving my scum pile until he does a single Towny thing, and KJ needs to do anything.
@Bur I would’ve never guessed that you had difficulty with English and can assure you that any reads I have are based on what you are saying/doing, not how you are. You’re where you are for similar reasons to KJ in that I don’t feel any urgency to move the game in any direction.
@All I apologise for the “popularity contest” remark, it was unwarranted and immature but it was incredibly disheartening to see all the shrug votes.
Vote Az Vote Cuth
I think this is a good post from Tubba. If I had to be nitpicky, I would say that it's weird he has Sloth as locktown without ever mentioning him in any meaningful capacity. His ISO is devoid of any Sloth read.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Unvote, Vote: LastWhisper. We're still only a little less than 3 days from end of day, and I will not gamethrow, even if you all are tripping over yourselves to.
What I mean is that it's not like there's been a set, small group of specific players preventing a wisp yeet throughout this game.
Most players have, some of the confirmed town by now, and it's not like it's possible for all the others to be town.
"Confirmed town?" Who would they be?
Wisp's survival to D4, not counting Night Actions, is not machinated by scum. Where you do you see the contradiction in this?
How are you not spelling out what I'm saying?
Wisp has had one person consistently call for his death: me. Everyone else hasn't. Meaning every mafia has consistently either defended Wisp or refrained from really going after him. Why would they do that if he's not mafia himself?
This probably comes down to site culture honestly.
I don't remember any games in this site so far where a 3rder role had a win condition (that didn't require them outliving other factions) that didn't allow them to win with town/scum.
If this is the first one, great, but I'm not really bothering with it.
So the answer is there is no reason to believe we wouldn't lose, even though our win condition, if interpreted as written, indicates that we would lose.
Awesome. Glad you all are so comfortable with that.
I don't like his list. The claim is ok, targets are ok.
Can I get the Cliffnotes about why it's good?
It shows some initiative for Tubba. Actually taking an in-game event and organizing reads around it.
-
Highroller, no, no one I have any confidence will flip mafia. It seems like everyone has a "good enough" reason to be town that I have to pick one of the "good enough" things to not be good enough, and I don't know how to do that meaningfully.
who says y'all won't lose if you execute me?
who here can actually say, that they think my play here comes from the perspective of a wolf?
nobody can answer the first, and from what I am getting, you are all the one who thinks I am a wolf
Sloth would vote me, but only because he wants to remove the 3p
@Vaimes
I don’t know what to tell you. I’ve pushed Cuth today. He’s been scummy to me all game. I’ve pushed him on his actions not being consistent with his claimed abilities. I’ve questioned him on his targets, looked for insight into his reads. He said that I wouldn’t understand because I’m a wolf. The rest of the game largely ignores me, and is again fine with lynching me because... I’m in the PoE. You yourself are voting me, without even being able to define my scumminess.
I don’t know why my vote isn’t on Cuth, Vote Cuth.
@Vaimes
I don’t know what to tell you. I’ve pushed Cuth today. He’s been scummy to me all game. I’ve pushed him on his actions not being consistent with his claimed abilities. I’ve questioned him on his targets, looked for insight into his reads. He said that I wouldn’t understand because I’m a wolf. The rest of the game largely ignores me, and is again fine with lynching me because... I’m in the PoE. You yourself are voting me, without even being able to define my scumminess.
I don’t know why my vote isn’t on Cuth, Vote Cuth.
uhhm your vote gets lost, because the format is Vote:, with a colon, because that's how Grape differentiates between actually voting, and people writing vote in their posts.
@Vaimes
I don’t know what to tell you. I’ve pushed Cuth today. He’s been scummy to me all game. I’ve pushed him on his actions not being consistent with his claimed abilities. I’ve questioned him on his targets, looked for insight into his reads. He said that I wouldn’t understand because I’m a wolf. The rest of the game largely ignores me, and is again fine with lynching me because... I’m in the PoE. You yourself are voting me, without even being able to define my scumminess.
I don’t know why my vote isn’t on Cuth, Vote Cuth.
And who are his partners? Or at least one of them? You say you spent the whole phase going after one person, okay - is anyone connected to him?
My question is to the wolves out there, what exactly are you doing?
this is just like general commentary, but like if any of y'all think bussing today will do anything to change our reads if we yeet a wolf today, you are wrong
@Vaimes
I decided to reread Tubba's isos in both Silver's game, and in Prison, and tbh this feels a bit more like Silver's game where they were a wolf, more calculated, and safer. and regardless of Cuth's alignment, it wouldn't ever change my read on them, and it shouldn't for anyone, if it ever comes to the point of Cuth dying and being a wolf
@Highroller
on an unrelated note, I do really apologize for my outburst before, and regardless of the outcome of this game, I do hope we can talk about our thoughts on 3ps post game
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Ok, so I spoke to Grapefruit to clarify this. He's confirmed that, for the purposes of the town win condition, if a hostile party is no longer in the game for whatever reason, that counts as "eliminated."
So, that being confirmed, I will agree that the Wisp situation is likely a self-correcting problem, provided we hit Witted mafia and the game is continuing tomorrow. Unvote: LastWhisper, Vote: Anak.
@Highroller
on an unrelated note, I do really apologize for my outburst before, and regardless of the outcome of this game, I do hope we can talk about our thoughts on 3ps post game
I appreciate that. It's cool, man. It's important that we all remind ourselves that at the end of the day, this is just a children's game.
Ok, so I spoke to Grapefruit to clarify this. He's confirmed that, for the purposes of the town win condition, if a hostile party is no longer in the game for whatever reason, that counts as "eliminated."
And anyway, the reason I bring/brougt up the Good Tubba Post is that I'm conflicted on whether or not it actually is all that good [for Tubba]. KJ says no, but hasn't really said why.
@Vaimes
I don’t know what to tell you. I’ve pushed Cuth today. He’s been scummy to me all game. I’ve pushed him on his actions not being consistent with his claimed abilities. I’ve questioned him on his targets, looked for insight into his reads. He said that I wouldn’t understand because I’m a wolf. The rest of the game largely ignores me, and is again fine with lynching me because... I’m in the PoE. You yourself are voting me, without even being able to define my scumminess.
I don’t know why my vote isn’t on Cuth, Vote Cuth.
And who are his partners? Or at least one of them? You say you spent the whole phase going after one person, okay - is anyone connected to him?
And can I ask why you targeted GJ N1?
Johnny had fire, he was active and I liked his pushing. He felt more town than not, and I figured the sooner I started building a network the better.
As far as anyone being connected to Cuth, that’s difficult considering how little he’s said throughout the game. That’s another part of my problem of his inconsistency. Why wasn’t he talking with “fellow Towns” to determine who would be a good shot? Or about his scum reads to try and gain vit to take the *****? It doesn’t fit.
I don't like his list. The claim is ok, targets are ok.
Can I get the Cliffnotes about why it's good?
KJ how are these both "not good" and "potentially wrong"? Out of three things, two are ok.
That's not what that means.
Like specifically, It's not "good" like i don't see the it being from a town perspective. The claim and targets are fine, they don't seem out of place.
The list is agnostic of the rest of everyone's behavior, focusing on one specific thing... but it's basing entire reads on it. He's not taking it into account and letting that color his read as a whole. It's just "these people were doing this thing, they are sus."
Talk about why he was taking initiative and not just bsing a reads list there?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I heard his song and dance about how he watches and waits and scumhunts in the background, but we’re nearing endgame and I have to raise the standard for what constitutes a villager here.
I liked his post-NDE reads and I liked him snapping back at me but that’s it, there’s nothing else there.
Like is there any player you can point to and say “yes that will flip mafia?” Because I am all ears.
I keep flipping on Cuth and bessie. I liked bessie pointing out that he could be manipulating me into feeding him reasons to scumread her.
At this point I’m even considering rereading Tammy. When nothing makes sense it’s usually because there’s a big misclear, but I don’t think widening their POE is what we need right now.
it's a good thing I don't really care about your opinion this late into the game, since after watching you get snowed by two of the most obvious wolves I have ever seen.(He might/probably be/is a wolf as well)
who knows exactly why Azreal came to the conclusion he did, I am looking at Anak's posts, and this is day 4, easily game-end if we mis-execute here, and he pulls the, "we are probably going to lose because of my mistake", k
I mean it's super hard to draw the line between town and wolves saying stuff like that, but on day 4 lylo? nah
Tubba has also been extremely re-active this game to be fair also
We need to work together anyways if you are town
I do like bessie a little more, but I still don't understand her point on me and Cuth
Cuth is a bit different, since he still can't really tell me why people are wolves, it's mostly him just saying why people don't have to be town
@Vaimes
so like I am just at a loss of what to do, there is very little chance town wins this game, if this continues to be the path
I just don't really get how Anak gets the benefit of the doubt, but Tubba is somehow worse?
i have literally no reason to prompt you for reasons to dunk on bessie, you're perfectly aware of most of them yourself (i think there are not that many red flags as such but a lot of general direction/narrative context clues) and it's not like me not doing work so that i can have you do whatever and just vaguely hint is at all my style or would be that effective here
the thing i was specifically being cryptic about on sunday was how bessie/sloth/tubba have all responded to my suspicion, which I've pretty clearly established as being based on a more holistic perception of the game and votes and such, and been like "dude this is nothing you have nothing there are no REASONS" and like been super defensive and all "zomg how do you know it's four wolves" "lol this is ridiculous" instead of just ignoring me or actually try to argue that i'm a wolf for literally anything other than, well, not explaining my reasoning in depth to them personally upon demand
me not answering their questions is not because i can't justify them if i put the work in, it's because that grouping contains at the very least two wolves unless i'm super wrong on at least one of you/kj/tammy, and i'd rather spend time interacting with y'all and pointing you towards the things i see (i haven't done a fantastic job of this but sue me) than argue with wolves about pointless nothings, because obviously they're not going to agree that basically all of them have ingenuine and constructed progressions on basically all of their reads and have done little other than push villagers (and continue to do so in what could genuinely be mylo, and i pointed this out first), and have absolutely garbage explanations for why they're all pushing me/anak specifically over ANY of each other when there are literally four wolves and those people have been in the poe and not particularly villagery at all all game
literally the majority of my reasoning for having the reads i do, and i can promise this would not change
the thing that i think would have followed is basically the stuff in the prior paragraphs
Say what you want about misreads, but I cannot fathom Anak getting read the way he did by Azrael and then messing it up three times back to back. Maybe, if the first time was a mistake and he decided to "oh whoops I did a thing" two more times to garner sympathy, idfk.
Tubba's post-NDE readslist made me feel like I could see into his head, and it's like one of the few posts of his that really shine. Whether or not I think it's enough to completely clear him is a different conversation.
If there's a wolf in Tammy/KJ then I quit mafia [not really...but also....].
I think this is a good post from Tubba. If I had to be nitpicky, I would say that it's weird he has Sloth as locktown without ever mentioning him in any meaningful capacity. His ISO is devoid of any Sloth read.
Most players have, some of the confirmed town by now, and it's not like it's possible for all the others to be town. Wisp's survival to D4, not counting Night Actions, is not machinated by scum. Where you do you see the contradiction in this?
This probably comes down to site culture honestly.
I don't remember any games in this site so far where a 3rder role had a win condition (that didn't require them outliving other factions) that didn't allow them to win with town/scum.
If this is the first one, great, but I'm not really bothering with it.
Demonstrated play when Az was around that doesn't rely on misunderstanding, simply common sense, for two.
Like, I think I've gone over this in detail in two or three posts, so ISO me. KJ even stated that it was pretty accurate, which I remember stuck out to me because I don't think ultimate-nitpicker-KJ (which is something I admire in your play btw, not an insult, KJ) has ever complimented my thoroughness before, which was neat.
I am choosing not to comment on Anak's #3841 as of now, but probably will nearer to eoD.
....Very slow blink.
Of all the reasons.
Why? Why would I not believe what I've brought up, which is confirmable, accurate, and unfolded before your very eyes?
The way I see it, he didn't even answer the original question. "Did you tell Az [about the vit]?" > "Az knew, yes."
Even if Az didn't know where the vit came from, he could have confirmed it's true and we would not be having this conversation about Anak in that case. At all.
The Tammy thing I still have problems with and I've spoken on why, but yeah, it's weird.
Also <redacted>
Yo, reminder to come back and talk about this future Sloth.
I know that you grouped the three of us together since the beginning of/before D4, but in relevance to this paragraph, I don't think I dismissed you or acted super defensive and the insinuation here is that I did, correct?
Anak (4): Sloth, Wisp, KJ, HR,
Wisp (1): Bessie,
Tubba (1): Vaimes,
Bessie (1): Cuth,
Not Voting (5): Tubba, Anak, Bur, BoomFrog, Tammy,
With 12 alive it takes 7 votes to reach majority.
I accept no responsibility if this is wrong, double-check your own votes.
@Bessie on top of the other questions I left for you, can you also answer why you're voting Wisp and if you're planning to move it?
I swear I've talked about this post a bunch.
Can I get the Cliffnotes about why it's good?
Unvote, Vote: LastWhisper. We're still only a little less than 3 days from end of day, and I will not gamethrow, even if you all are tripping over yourselves to.
Really?
I mean, fair's fair, I have no real reason for anyone being town right now, sans myself. But really? No one you're suspicious of at all?
"Confirmed town?" Who would they be?
How are you not spelling out what I'm saying?
Wisp has had one person consistently call for his death: me. Everyone else hasn't. Meaning every mafia has consistently either defended Wisp or refrained from really going after him. Why would they do that if he's not mafia himself?
So the answer is there is no reason to believe we wouldn't lose, even though our win condition, if interpreted as written, indicates that we would lose.
Awesome. Glad you all are so comfortable with that.
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Highroller, no, no one I have any confidence will flip mafia. It seems like everyone has a "good enough" reason to be town that I have to pick one of the "good enough" things to not be good enough, and I don't know how to do that meaningfully.
who here can actually say, that they think my play here comes from the perspective of a wolf?
nobody can answer the first, and from what I am getting, you are all the one who thinks I am a wolf
Sloth would vote me, but only because he wants to remove the 3p
I don’t know what to tell you. I’ve pushed Cuth today. He’s been scummy to me all game. I’ve pushed him on his actions not being consistent with his claimed abilities. I’ve questioned him on his targets, looked for insight into his reads. He said that I wouldn’t understand because I’m a wolf. The rest of the game largely ignores me, and is again fine with lynching me because... I’m in the PoE. You yourself are voting me, without even being able to define my scumminess.
I don’t know why my vote isn’t on Cuth, Vote Cuth.
wait so I am confused, you are voting Tubba, but highlight a post you like?
or did I miss a specific question that prompted you to post that?
And can I ask why you targeted GJ N1?
this is just like general commentary, but like if any of y'all think bussing today will do anything to change our reads if we yeet a wolf today, you are wrong
@Vaimes
I decided to reread Tubba's isos in both Silver's game, and in Prison, and tbh this feels a bit more like Silver's game where they were a wolf, more calculated, and safer. and regardless of Cuth's alignment, it wouldn't ever change my read on them, and it shouldn't for anyone, if it ever comes to the point of Cuth dying and being a wolf
on an unrelated note, I do really apologize for my outburst before, and regardless of the outcome of this game, I do hope we can talk about our thoughts on 3ps post game
I had the same thought Wisp had though. You voted Tubba, then cited a good post from him. Talk us through that progression please?
So, that being confirmed, I will agree that the Wisp situation is likely a self-correcting problem, provided we hit Witted mafia and the game is continuing tomorrow. Unvote: LastWhisper, Vote: Anak.
I appreciate that. It's cool, man. It's important that we all remind ourselves that at the end of the day, this is just a children's game.
Johnny had fire, he was active and I liked his pushing. He felt more town than not, and I figured the sooner I started building a network the better.
As far as anyone being connected to Cuth, that’s difficult considering how little he’s said throughout the game. That’s another part of my problem of his inconsistency. Why wasn’t he talking with “fellow Towns” to determine who would be a good shot? Or about his scum reads to try and gain vit to take the *****? It doesn’t fit.
Like specifically, It's not "good" like i don't see the it being from a town perspective. The claim and targets are fine, they don't seem out of place.
The list is agnostic of the rest of everyone's behavior, focusing on one specific thing... but it's basing entire reads on it. He's not taking it into account and letting that color his read as a whole. It's just "these people were doing this thing, they are sus."
Talk about why he was taking initiative and not just bsing a reads list there?