You know what? I take the HR read back a little bit. Even with the neutral claim, Highroller was a lot more of a team-player in Ghostbusters, at least in comparison to here. Too lazy to find out when Kami claimed neutral, but Highroller didn't really push it as hard as he's doing it here, and even then it wasn't until near-lylo that he ramped it up.
Azrael: I am a mafia Amadeus! I am the town's only hope at winning this game because I am the greatest at analysis and am so incredible I can solve this entire game by myself with my mind powers!
Also Azrael: I don't know who people voted for or even who they are.
As I said before, once we get to T-2 days until end of day, which is roughly 20 hours from now, I would recommend whoever has left to vote Azrael to go ahead. The double lynch possibility would have helped enormously, but it was always a reach, and at this point it's clearly not going to happen. We definitely should not risk no lynch happening again.
Nah.
I wasn't even the best player to sign up for this particular game. But I can accurately game-solve given the right tools, the right opponents, and the right teammates. So can a lot of other people who have put in enough time learning and practicing, just like any other skill. The right set of scum could have been a major problem for me, but most of you scum, it seems like your hearts weren't really in it this time. The ones who like being mafia and take pride in it - like Bessie - those are the ones you have to watch out for. The ones that make an art form out of it.
But feel free to continue to resort to the repeated ad hom. The more single-mindedly you try to undermine what I've written, the more it just underlines how important it is for you that the town ignore those reads. You're going a little overboard with that.
Vaimes, I took a cue from another of my past articles, the Pinocchio problem, and spread some disinformation in the hopes of drawing a scum NK (remote chance of that, as I told Anak) while telling Anak the truth RE: my claim, that I was "bullet-proof-ish". If I'm target of an ability that would make me lose equal to or more than X vitality, Y happens instead, where Y is me not losing as much vitality as they thought I would. The flavor explanation, dove-tailing nicely with the flavor of the books, is that I'm very hard to kill. Which Fitz certainly was.
I also stated the claim is provable, which is at least half true, since if you have LW or any other killing role blast at me, I'll survive quite a few shots of that. I could claim the precise amounts and numbers to either Tammy or Anak as needed, but I don't see that it serves any beneficial purpose to put that out there publicly.
This is also why I stated, after Silver gave me a vit, that I don't need any additional vit atm. I have quite enough that the mafia would have a most frustrating time trying to pick me off. Ironically enough, the only out the mafia really have for dealing with me, is exactly what the town is contemplating doing, instead of lynching the outed obv-scum.
How likely is it that there is a protective role, Boom's role that might turn into a bodyguard, and Az's bulletproofish role?
If Az is telling the truth about his role, it's not needed for mafia unless the vit thief is town, and considering nobody even seems close to admitting that they stole vit, I'm not sure. Unless we're dealing with two scum teams, then his role could be either really.
I don't know, but I am in the midst of prepping for classes that start Monday, and I have to have all my stuff posted by tomorrow night. I'll be around this whole time and won't miss deadline, but I'll be very scattered thought wise.
Azrael - It was my understanding that Bur doesn't really post that much regardless of their alignment. Where do you get that he really likes playing mafia and so would be here. And for Bessie, you said that she takes pride in being mafia, do you have experience with Bessie?
I presumed that Silver was the source of an additional vit that I received and immediately claimed, on a different day than Cuth. I can track that claim down for you and requote if that helps.
Iirc anak said yes to my question if azrael knew that anak gave him the vitality.
Did Azrael forget who gave him vit, does he find muddying the waters just a really important thing to do, or is anak lying?
I wouldn’t expect him to forget since he also discussed the reason silver was clearing cuth. Wish I could depend on either of the first two.
Haven't Az and Isanak been hooked up together since Day 1? 0% chance Azrael "forgot." If Az lied about getting vit from [town!]Anak and never cleared it up then idfk.
You know what? I take the HR read back a little bit. Even with the neutral claim, Highroller was a lot more of a team-player in Ghostbusters, at least in comparison to here. Too lazy to find out when Kami claimed neutral, but Highroller didn't really push it as hard as he's doing it here, and even then it wasn't until near-lylo that he ramped it up.
@Boom
I will say, she did have a lot more, "not you" arguments and just straight up refusals to actually put in work when I asked her too, but at least here she is consistently doing stuff, but like she just hasn't had a real push since Tammy, who was literally obvious town, and her vote on me is poor. I want you to now talk in more detail about her posts in this game, if you, please? We really need to figure this ***** out today
I am going to work on highroller and sloth hopefully
I've been in a game called Ghostbusters Mafia in which this exact same scenario already played out. A guy claimed Neutral. People came up with all sorts of reasons not to lynch him. They proceeded to only lynch towns. It got to the point where it was LyLo and we all knew it, and yet people still refused to lynch the self-admitted nontown, even though we would LOSE THE GAME if we didn't hit a nontown that day.
Guess what? We lost the game.
I told everyone DAY ONE, right after Wisp claimed nontown, that this exact thing would happen. That we should kill him immediately. But everyone came up with reasons why we shouldn't, why I was overreacting, why it wasn't like Wisp was going to live past day three or anything.
Yet here we are. At LyLo once again. With a neutral - that I was assured wouldn't live past day three - still alive, once again. With a town refusing to lynch him once again.
So you ask me what I think of those other players? I don't think of them. Because I believe if we don't lynch LastWhisper today, we will lose, and if we lose, well it really doesn't matter, does it?
If there's another in-game day tomorrow, ask me what I think of them. Because right now, I don't. I don't think of them. I'm not going to bother thinking of them, because I think that any such discussions are asinine, because I think we're about to lose. And I think this because that's what happened last time.
I've been telling you all since December 3 - that's a month and two weeks ago - what the correct play is. You all keep not making it. At this point, I don't even know what to do. I'm making the correct play. Figure out how to get yourselves there, but just know, this has all happened before.
But yeah, if, for whatever reason, this game hasn't ended and there's another in-game day, ask me then. I'll happily discuss that with you for days. Meantime, vote LastWhisper. Let's make the correct play.
You know what? I take the HR read back a little bit. Even with the neutral claim, Highroller was a lot more of a team-player in Ghostbusters, at least in comparison to here. Too lazy to find out when Kami claimed neutral, but Highroller didn't really push it as hard as he's doing it here, and even then it wasn't until near-lylo that he ramped it up.
honestly I realized after posting that that maybe Ghostbusters is the reason you are less uh. Amicable.
I'm not opposed to killing Wisp toDay because it guarantees another game Day [unless both Sloth and Cuth take out villagers], but it's only a bandaid. We still have to solve the game, and there's no clear direction. We could try coordinating PRs but blah blah closed setup.
honestly I realized after posting that that maybe Ghostbusters is the reason you are less uh. Amicable.
*Slow clap*
I'm not opposed to killing Wisp toDay because it guarantees another game Day [unless both Sloth and Cuth take out villagers], but it's only a bandaid. We still have to solve the game, and there's no clear direction. We could try coordinating PRs but blah blah closed setup.
NO. Do NOT give the town too much to think about.
We kill LastWhisper today. We worry about who our next lynch after LastWhisper should be when we're assured that's even going to happen.
@Vaimes
Don't u dare fall onto me unless you can't guarantee another lunch, without even reading ghostbusters there is already clearly an obvious difference between what happens there and what happening here. And to be fair, y'all were probably going to lose that anyways lol
honestly I realized after posting that that maybe Ghostbusters is the reason you are less uh. Amicable.
*Slow clap*
I'm not opposed to killing Wisp toDay because it guarantees another game Day [unless both Sloth and Cuth take out villagers], but it's only a bandaid. We still have to solve the game, and there's no clear direction. We could try coordinating PRs but blah blah closed setup.
NO. Do NOT give the town too much to think about.
We kill LastWhisper today. We worry about who our next lynch after LastWhisper should be when we're assured that's even going to happen.
I've already seen how well you handle lylo, so I don't have high hopes for lylo, given you just vote without thinking.
but when we're talking about me calling a lot of attention to myself and explicitly claiming an obviously provable mechanic
the leading theories for me being a wolf and doing this is to move suspicion off myself? by spending most of my time this game talking about this ability before intentionally not killing anyone or claiming a kill or anything?
because either i do have a kill and i chose not to use it or i have another strong PR and who knows what i was doing there (also i didn't do anything n1) or i didn't have a strong PR at all and i'm doing this because i want to draw attention to myself for ??? reasons instead of spending that time playing the game and trying to get villagers yeeted instead of wolves
i'm not defending the overall quality of my play and depth of my engagement, but this is something that makes far, far more sense if i have exactly the role i have
and people insisting that i'm saying the wolves have exactly one rb and that's damning is pretty silly for numerous reasons
Its arguably working for you, if you’re a wolf. It’s too easy for you to say that’s why you haven’t done anything though. Your argument for not being a wolf is because your play hasn’t led to Townies being killed is falling flat, because Townies have died. You have no argument for being town to go with it. So I don’t see how this should move the needle.
@Vaimes: Since we are mass claiming and I didn't want to leave part of my role unclaimed? Since I said earlier this day there is bit more to my role that I didn't claim at that time?
Or if you are talking about my reasonings, I can go back to silently lurking in the corner and not voicing any of my thoughts if that's what you prefer ;p
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
if by "arguably working for me" you mean "providing basically the only justification apart from not being super engaged in the game that anyone's pushing me off of and asking for town invests to target me for two days", then sure, you can have that point lol
i soundly reject your implication that the claim has made me less likely to die here given the way the game's played out, other than the fact that most of my posts have been about it so there's not much left if you subtract me talking about its mechanics and whatnot
(my guess would be since it's a vit drain rather than a true "shot" you don't lose vit unless you do the assassin thing and actually remove them from the other person but that's a bit speculative and i'm not sure how other comparable roles work in this game)
(though it could also depend on the method whereby my action failed, whether it was a mafia prot or a jk/rb/whatever)
i'm not saying my play hasn't led to villagers dying, i'm saying i haven't been actively trying to yeet villagers all game
which is true regardless, because i've barely had any pushes this entire game and have spent most of it defending people/reiterating townreads
but it's a fairly meaningless point because obviously your picture of the poe is rather different from mine
man I think I understand what you are saying, but there definitely has to be a less ambiguous reason, then, "everyone else lunched a lot of towns" cause it's definitely not that black and white, and does feel a bit disingenuous from you.
Anyways, I'm still pretty sure Anak is town. What I've understood, Iso/Anak has been connected to Az since D1? And Anak claimed this to Az and has been giving Vit to Az?
And Az claimed at some point that he had gotten Vit, right?
The only explanation for Anak being scum would be that he/his scum buddy has been giving Vit to town Az and somehow used this to townfirm Anak to Az. Or that scum!Anak has convinced town!Az that they'll fake together that Anak is town Vitality giver.
If that's true, I'll murder Az post-game for this level of FPSing and Anak will be getting best scum player of 2021 award.
(I mean this as no insult, but everytime I've seen scum Anak, he's been a wet noodle. I have hard time seeing this level of play from scum!Anak).
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
Scum!Anak is actually not a wet noodle, I know this because I actually went back and read of bunch of his games, and I could not find any clear distinction between his town and wolf games. I'm not saying you are being disingenuous with that thought, I'm just saying it's not really true
i'm not saying my play hasn't led to villagers dying, i'm saying i haven't been actively trying to yeet villagers all game
which is true regardless, because i've barely had any pushes this entire game and have spent most of it defending people/reiterating townreads
but it's a fairly meaningless point because obviously your picture of the poe is rather different from mine
man I think I understand what you are saying, but there definitely has to be a less ambiguous reason, then, "everyone else lunched a lot of towns" cause it's definitely not that black and white, and does feel a bit disingenuous from you.
no no not lunched villagers
moved narratives and poes to specifically focus on people who are villagers to the exclusion of other people for no justifiable reason, whether analytically or like organic thought-wise
this is what i was talking about with sloth
everyone's played poorly this game, but specifically at this stage of the game the reasons people have the reads they currently have are crucially important
and what do i see
i see people who are trying to figure the game out and have reads that are shifting around and swinging a bit
like you, like kj, like vaimes
and then i see people like sloth and bessie and tubba who are just pushing villagers and have no really good reason not to be pushing other people in that group as much and have bad reasoning but it doesn't really matter because all they need is really 1-2 misyeets at most
villagers aren't playing the game of "let's just find one" because that doesn't really work anymore, though it would be dumb to yeet someone who's not wolfy just because they fit the most potential worlds
villagers are like "we have to get each yeet right but also there are four wolves so we're not going to hand out easy passes to anyone"
wolves are like "cuth/anak are pretty sus, bessie hasn't done much but the push on tammy existed?? i have no poe after these two names which are villagers at which point we'll have won so whatever"
@Vaimes: Since we are mass claiming and I didn't want to leave part of my role unclaimed? Since I said earlier this day there is bit more to my role that I didn't claim at that time?
Or if you are talking about my reasonings, I can go back to silently lurking in the corner and not voicing any of my thoughts if that's what you prefer ;p
Okay, I just don't get what bessie had to do with it.
@Cuth
I agree too, town don't live in these gated worlds, they are usually moving around, it's easier for them to move their reads around, while wolves have to plan more often, and can't easily move around in light of new info
@Highroller
Also me not being team doesn't answer my point, you aren't a team player, but nice shade either way
the reason yeeting wisp is incredibly wolf-sided is that we're basically sacrificing two >rand chances to hit wolves in exchange for maybe ensuring lylo if the wolves aren't able to kill multiple of the people who are known to have 1 vit after town has massclaimed and definitely not killing any wolves
@Bur
Can I ask you something in regards to your way earlier rant post, and don't tell me it has nothing to do with this game, cause that isn't true, you can't just write stuff and then we pretend it doesn't exist or should ignore it
It's an easy question as well, I want to know what posts "specifically", warranted that response.
@Vaumes
Who did highroller lose to as a wolf claiming 3p, I swear I can't believe I might actually read that game just to explain some obvious contextual differences that I can easily already assume
I'm am v reading him because I have very rarely seen wolves play like this, it almost never happens, and I have very clear meta on how he does play as town, and it's almost exactly like this game, he is a very shallow player, that does not care about context ever, I can easily assume that he very rarely ever re-evaluate anything.
Either way I am going to reread him because it really needs to be done
Look at how he voted ZDS in the recent micro, and how he handled it, he started the game believing he had a wolf off his first post, and everything after was just more reasons to wolf read him, and though I gave clear thoughts on why that wasn't true
And why GJ was literally an obvious wolf based on tonal differences between this game and that game
But I was forced to hammer someone I didn't want to for the sake of a yeet, and then I got killed because I was the clear kill since everyone was fighting amongst themselves while I was the most level headed
I wish I knew lol, else I probably wouldn't be fence sitting this hard, I think there is one on this site, that I can read, I'll get back to you in a bit on that
who are wisp's viable targets here in terms of wincon?
Anak, Tubba, highroller, maybe more, can't remember off the top of my head
Seriously as an aside, how have you not paid attention to this one detail? I can list all the original wits and they're claimed targets off the top of my head.
who are wisp's viable targets here in terms of wincon?
Anak, Tubba, highroller, maybe more, can't remember off the top of my head
Seriously as an aside, how have you not paid attention to this one detail? I can list all the original wits and they're claimed targets off the top of my head.
memory has always been a problem for me, I don't know what else to tell you, but I have also been focusing most of my effort on wolf hunting while trying to kill witted in the night, so ya, mehh?
@Vaumes
Who did highroller lose to as a wolf claiming 3p, I swear I can't believe I might actually read that game just to explain some obvious contextual differences that I can easily already assume
KamikazeArchon, Slimer, Mafia Follower, won in endgame.
@Vaimes: Since we are mass claiming and I didn't want to leave part of my role unclaimed? Since I said earlier this day there is bit more to my role that I didn't claim at that time?
Or if you are talking about my reasonings, I can go back to silently lurking in the corner and not voicing any of my thoughts if that's what you prefer ;p
Okay, I just don't get what bessie had to do with it.
I originally thought Bessie claimed that they had watched Tammy N2 and wanted to see if they could see Skill targetings.
Since I targeted Tammy N2 with the skill, I wanted to know if Bessie could see Skill targetings. If they could, I would've known Bessie way lying and would be scum.
Obviously this is not meaningful as I targeted Tammy N2 and Bessie watched Tammy N3.
@Wisp: I can't remember the post number and don't have time to check right now, but last straw was Az's post when he cased me and highlighted some of my posts where I asked people to rephrase things since I didn't understand what they meant and Az just commented "lol look this is scum!Bur pretending to do something useful"
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
I am trying to townread Cuth with peace in my heart. I think Highroller is fine, just saw how much more cooperative he was in Ghostbusters and got excited that maybe he wasn't town this time.
Wisp, go read https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/search?search-thread-id=801746&search-forum-id=&forum-scope=f&display-type=0&search=&search-type=0&by-author=Highroller&begin-date=&begin-time=&end-date=&end-time=&min-posts=&min-views=&display-type=0&submit=y
and help me.
Iirc anak said yes to my question if azrael knew that anak gave him the vitality.
Did Azrael forget who gave him vit, does he find muddying the waters just a really important thing to do, or is anak lying?
I wouldn’t expect him to forget since he also discussed the reason silver was clearing cuth. Wish I could depend on either of the first two.
freaking Azrael
@Boom
I will say, she did have a lot more, "not you" arguments and just straight up refusals to actually put in work when I asked her too, but at least here she is consistently doing stuff, but like she just hasn't had a real push since Tammy, who was literally obvious town, and her vote on me is poor. I want you to now talk in more detail about her posts in this game, if you, please? We really need to figure this ***** out today
I am going to work on highroller and sloth hopefully
Like, to give you a recap, because you replaced in, I knew all of this was going to happen. I called it day one.
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/819650-realm-of-the-elderlings-mafia-day-4-merchant-of?page=15#c744
I've been in a game called Ghostbusters Mafia in which this exact same scenario already played out. A guy claimed Neutral. People came up with all sorts of reasons not to lynch him. They proceeded to only lynch towns. It got to the point where it was LyLo and we all knew it, and yet people still refused to lynch the self-admitted nontown, even though we would LOSE THE GAME if we didn't hit a nontown that day.
Guess what? We lost the game.
I told everyone DAY ONE, right after Wisp claimed nontown, that this exact thing would happen. That we should kill him immediately. But everyone came up with reasons why we shouldn't, why I was overreacting, why it wasn't like Wisp was going to live past day three or anything.
Yet here we are. At LyLo once again. With a neutral - that I was assured wouldn't live past day three - still alive, once again. With a town refusing to lynch him once again.
So you ask me what I think of those other players? I don't think of them. Because I believe if we don't lynch LastWhisper today, we will lose, and if we lose, well it really doesn't matter, does it?
If there's another in-game day tomorrow, ask me what I think of them. Because right now, I don't. I don't think of them. I'm not going to bother thinking of them, because I think that any such discussions are asinine, because I think we're about to lose. And I think this because that's what happened last time.
I've been telling you all since December 3 - that's a month and two weeks ago - what the correct play is. You all keep not making it. At this point, I don't even know what to do. I'm making the correct play. Figure out how to get yourselves there, but just know, this has all happened before.
But yeah, if, for whatever reason, this game hasn't ended and there's another in-game day, ask me then. I'll happily discuss that with you for days. Meantime, vote LastWhisper. Let's make the correct play.
Do you remember THAT WE LOST THAT GAME?
I'm not opposed to killing Wisp toDay because it guarantees another game Day [unless both Sloth and Cuth take out villagers], but it's only a bandaid. We still have to solve the game, and there's no clear direction. We could try coordinating PRs but blah blah closed setup.
NO. Do NOT give the town too much to think about.
We kill LastWhisper today. We worry about who our next lynch after LastWhisper should be when we're assured that's even going to happen.
Don't u dare fall onto me unless you can't guarantee another lunch, without even reading ghostbusters there is already clearly an obvious difference between what happens there and what happening here. And to be fair, y'all were probably going to lose that anyways lol
Its arguably working for you, if you’re a wolf. It’s too easy for you to say that’s why you haven’t done anything though. Your argument for not being a wolf is because your play hasn’t led to Townies being killed is falling flat, because Townies have died. You have no argument for being town to go with it. So I don’t see how this should move the needle.
which is true regardless, because i've barely had any pushes this entire game and have spent most of it defending people/reiterating townreads
but it's a fairly meaningless point because obviously your picture of the poe is rather different from mine
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModOr if you are talking about my reasonings, I can go back to silently lurking in the corner and not voicing any of my thoughts if that's what you prefer ;p
i soundly reject your implication that the claim has made me less likely to die here given the way the game's played out, other than the fact that most of my posts have been about it so there's not much left if you subtract me talking about its mechanics and whatnot
i did not
i said this at eod
(my guess would be since it's a vit drain rather than a true "shot" you don't lose vit unless you do the assassin thing and actually remove them from the other person but that's a bit speculative and i'm not sure how other comparable roles work in this game)
(though it could also depend on the method whereby my action failed, whether it was a mafia prot or a jk/rb/whatever)
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModAnd Az claimed at some point that he had gotten Vit, right?
The only explanation for Anak being scum would be that he/his scum buddy has been giving Vit to town Az and somehow used this to townfirm Anak to Az. Or that scum!Anak has convinced town!Az that they'll fake together that Anak is town Vitality giver.
If that's true, I'll murder Az post-game for this level of FPSing and Anak will be getting best scum player of 2021 award.
(I mean this as no insult, but everytime I've seen scum Anak, he's been a wet noodle. I have hard time seeing this level of play from scum!Anak).
moved narratives and poes to specifically focus on people who are villagers to the exclusion of other people for no justifiable reason, whether analytically or like organic thought-wise
this is what i was talking about with sloth
everyone's played poorly this game, but specifically at this stage of the game the reasons people have the reads they currently have are crucially important
and what do i see
i see people who are trying to figure the game out and have reads that are shifting around and swinging a bit
like you, like kj, like vaimes
and then i see people like sloth and bessie and tubba who are just pushing villagers and have no really good reason not to be pushing other people in that group as much and have bad reasoning but it doesn't really matter because all they need is really 1-2 misyeets at most
villagers aren't playing the game of "let's just find one" because that doesn't really work anymore, though it would be dumb to yeet someone who's not wolfy just because they fit the most potential worlds
villagers are like "we have to get each yeet right but also there are four wolves so we're not going to hand out easy passes to anyone"
wolves are like "cuth/anak are pretty sus, bessie hasn't done much but the push on tammy existed?? i have no poe after these two names which are villagers at which point we'll have won so whatever"
I agree too, town don't live in these gated worlds, they are usually moving around, it's easier for them to move their reads around, while wolves have to plan more often, and can't easily move around in light of new info
@Highroller
Also me not being team doesn't answer my point, you aren't a team player, but nice shade either way
have some confidence in yourselves
Can I ask you something in regards to your way earlier rant post, and don't tell me it has nothing to do with this game, cause that isn't true, you can't just write stuff and then we pretend it doesn't exist or should ignore it
It's an easy question as well, I want to know what posts "specifically", warranted that response.
Ya I think some get that, but Highroller thinks I am a wolf, because he doesn't know how to read games on a contextual level.
yes and it's bad on several levels and people are still v-reading him for it lol, mutiple of which are wolves no matter what your reads are
Who did highroller lose to as a wolf claiming 3p, I swear I can't believe I might actually read that game just to explain some obvious contextual differences that I can easily already assume
Either way I am going to reread him because it really needs to be done
And why GJ was literally an obvious wolf based on tonal differences between this game and that game
But I was forced to hammer someone I didn't want to for the sake of a yeet, and then I got killed because I was the clear kill since everyone was fighting amongst themselves while I was the most level headed
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModI originally thought Bessie claimed that they had watched Tammy N2 and wanted to see if they could see Skill targetings.
Since I targeted Tammy N2 with the skill, I wanted to know if Bessie could see Skill targetings. If they could, I would've known Bessie way lying and would be scum.
Obviously this is not meaningful as I targeted Tammy N2 and Bessie watched Tammy N3.
@Wisp: I can't remember the post number and don't have time to check right now, but last straw was Az's post when he cased me and highlighted some of my posts where I asked people to rephrase things since I didn't understand what they meant and Az just commented "lol look this is scum!Bur pretending to do something useful"
Vaimes
Tammy
Killjoy
Bur
vs.
Highroller
Cuthalion
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Iso/Anaklusmos
Slothful
Tubba Fett
Chad/BoomFrog
WMU/Bessie
I am trying to townread Cuth with peace in my heart. I think Highroller is fine, just saw how much more cooperative he was in Ghostbusters and got excited that maybe he wasn't town this time.