btw if there are any living protections alive, you should claim today, because one you are probably in the PoE, and two, you have done a terrible job so far
else Boom is our only protection, an utterly weak protection, that amps up when we kill mafia, which makes literally no sense, unless he lied and claimed the opposite, to either hide the specifics of his role as town, to seem weaker, or maliciously as Killjoy perceives, which makes sense, for a wolf to amp up as other wolves die, another player who has seemed to die down to nothingness along with literally everyone else
I am looking at you Cantrip/Cuth
cause honestly his role makes no ******* sense as claimed.
I don't need it if its substantially in the thread.
I really really don't like that notedump he made. I asked him to consolidate because what I've seen of his read on you is a bunch of disconnected thoughts. Obviously I meant connect them coherently in a post. He didn't do that, he just made a post that could be interpretted a bunch of different ways. Overall his play has been disconnected in a way I don't like.
BTW, when I said "never seen scummy from him" I meant that in the "history of playing with him" sense. Like, he does things that are scummy but just not FOR HIM so I never really narrowed down scummy motives for him.
In this case, I feel like he knew what I wanted and gave me a note dump instead.
At this moment in time, I feel like I'm one of the town's last offensive weapons. In the midst of trying to lead that charge and analyze the rest of the town that I haven't gotten to, you ask me to do a massive project that I don't have near enough time to accomplish, and zero interest in reiterating. Your charge against was that you worried my reads were baseless. Well, dropping a sheaf of my notes on your hand was certainly not what you had in mind, and is of absolutely no use to you in actually following those reads and the origins of them, but at their heart they all boil down (as they always have, in every one of my games) to me finding bits and scrapes and pieces of innocuous seeming townie tells, that wouldn't ordinarily or organically come from anyone but the most motivated and subtle scum players.
So if you wanted to see me spout out some version of "these seven posts here, organic townie thoughts, not likely to be faked", multiplied by every single town post I've tracked across the thread, no. There ain't time for that.
But if your issue is you doubt that I'm actually pursuing that endeavor, if you're trying to read me rather than have me do the work for you, the evidence is staring you in the face, and it's more than sufficient for that purpose.
And again, if your issue is my read on Sloth, go back and read that analysis read-through that I made just a few days IRL. I don't have time to reiterate something I already JUST posted in this thread, not when there's still so much to be done and many of the town that were most willing and most able to pitch in have already been culled. I'm back to work, I don't have time to waste on that - I barely have time to spend on this game at all now. Every attorney at our firm is full to bursting with cases, we're still down at least one support staff, we need to hire an extra attorney, juggle my existing case load, train everyone we've recently hired, and still keep an eye on the rest of my staff. I would much rather spend the time I have, when I'm too weary from working through the day and into the night and I'm ready to switch over to doing eye-bleeding PBPAs as my break, on actually tracking down and finding the scum rather than fielding complaints about how I haven't served up material that I already posted two days ago.
I know that's short-tempered and acerbic, but I'd rather you have the benefit of reading that fury and knowing it's genuine, than have to suffer through more of these distractions. I'm a limited resource, and this is NOT how you want to expend me before the scum finally realize that they won't be able to lynch me and will have expend a NK.
btw if there are any living protections alive, you should claim today, because one you are probably in the PoE, and two, you have done a terrible job so far
else Boom is our only protection, an utterly weak protection, that amps up when we kill mafia, which makes literally no sense, unless he lied and claimed the opposite, to either hide the specifics of his role as town, to seem weaker, or maliciously as Killjoy perceives, which makes sense, for a wolf to amp up as other wolves die, another player who has seemed to die down to nothingness along with literally everyone else
I am looking at you Cantrip/Cuth
cause honestly his role makes no ******* sense as claimed.
Kennit. They already killed Kennit. They have free rein, man.
It shows when the doc was uploaded, so there should be no question of it being edited to circumvent the rules, any more than there would be if I coppy-pasted the reads in thread.
I think Wisp is correct it’s going to be hard to ensure a double elimination with Wisp as one of the eliminations. Or really anyone if they are babysitting the thread.
This only happens if a player essentially outs themselves by unvoting, which scum are unlikely to do for a 3rder. I'm not seeing a huge risk - am I missing something?
I meant that anyone leading a tied vote at L-1 can hammer the other person and ensure they aren’t eliminated, not just Wisp. And if it’s a choice between getting eliminated and outing one’s self by hammering the other vote leader, well why wouldn’t they?
Highroller – I don’t see his focus on Wisp as alignment indicative, and I don’t see much value in analyzing his Wisp-related content, will reconsider depending on Wisp’s flip. And there isn’t much non-Wisp content to analyze. Highroller is not currently on my elimination list.
What would Wisp flipping make you re-consider about HR? Do you think Wisp is lying? Also you don't think the Wisp stuff is AI, you don't see much HR has done outside of Wisp, and yet on D3 this isn't a role you want to eliminate? What? Given how nothing there is, how long would HR get to coast by for you before he was on your elimination list?
Given those other reads also don't seem super high on your elimination list, who does populate that currently?
(This is HR is scum, playing like this is getting him free passes through the game without doing anything.)
If Wisp flips not as an independent, but as a member of a faction, then I would reconsider analyzing Highroller’s Wisp-related content. I don’t think Wisp is lying about being independent. Which means Wisp can be attacked by town and non-town so I don’t see what Highroller is doing as alignment indicative.
And interesting choice of words there. What makes you think Highroller should by default be on my elimination list?
I did those four reads because they were specifically requested by Azrael, not because they are on the top of my elimination list. And I already said I would vote for Cuthalion so I’m not sure what you are trying to imply with your question. My list from yesterday holds, I have not seen anything yet today that would change it. I am trying to put together an ordered list but I’m having trouble separating out some of the players in my mind.
I don't really know where to start with re-evaluating most of my reads. I'm skilling Bur because it's free, and if it ****s town over somehow then rip this game.
I don't really know where to start with re-evaluating most of my reads. I'm skilling Bur because it's free, and if it ****s town over somehow then rip this game.
Honestly Bur's aggro pushing for getting his ability up to speed makes me think more town than not, because I just remembered Mostly Mute Mafia where... Koza? did the same thing as town.
@Az: I'm not saying you should have spent moer time on stuff, I was looking for a summary of your reasoning on Sloth. A conclusion. What you gave me was the raw data. That is, literally, the exact opposite of what I wanted. What I extrapolate from your raw data isn't relevent to YOUR alignment. It tells me very little about your thought process. What data you chose to include might, but that's still me interpreting stuff without any real lead from you as to where you were trying to go.
So lets try this again, without the outburst please. Why is Sloth scum?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Honestly Bur's aggro pushing for getting his ability up to speed makes me think more town than not, because I just remembered Mostly Mute Mafia where... Koza? did the same thing as town.
@Az: I'm not saying you should have spent moer time on stuff, I was looking for a summary of your reasoning on Sloth. A conclusion. What you gave me was the raw data. That is, literally, the exact opposite of what I wanted. What I extrapolate from your raw data isn't relevent to YOUR alignment. It tells me very little about your thought process. What data you chose to include might, but that's still me interpreting stuff without any real lead from you as to where you were trying to go.
So lets try this again, without the outburst please. Why is Sloth scum?
*eye twitches violently, shoves cantankerous grumpy old man back in the closet*
I did that big read-through post several days ago where I literally about-faced and said Sloth probably is NOT scum. And why. With post and quote analysis, conclusions, everything. That's what I'm referring to. Not the raw data-dump.
The big time crunch that I'm referring to is that you asked me if I could justify (in addition to Sloth) all my other town reads. So, like, eight people's worth of analysis. That's where I get super twitchy about time commitments.
don’t think either of them have roles that are alignment indicative though.
Does anybody have an actual townread on Azrael? Like honest to goodness actual townread? I’m struggling to see him as town at all, and I’m kicking myself for my pragmatism yesterday instead of just voting there. So if you have an actual tiebreak there, could you please help me with what I’m just not seeing? It feels like nobody has an actual townreads there but are afraid to pull the plug. I wanna pull that plug.
A) He is putting in serious effort to analyze people. If he's scum he's leaving a paper trail a mile wide, and if he's town he's a great asset. Better to leave him alive for longer and go after some players who won't be missed if they are town.
B) You kinda had to live through it and I think you might have just been absent from the thread, but he really did revitalize a dead thread D2. He saw the game stagnate and his response was to crank out some analysis. Maybe that analysis was superficial but it got discussion restarted. That is town or an epically dedicated wolf. Occam's razor says the former.
Honestly Bur's aggro pushing for getting his ability up to speed makes me think more town than not, because I just remembered Mostly Mute Mafia where... Koza? did the same thing as town.
@Az: I'm not saying you should have spent moer time on stuff, I was looking for a summary of your reasoning on Sloth. A conclusion. What you gave me was the raw data. That is, literally, the exact opposite of what I wanted. What I extrapolate from your raw data isn't relevent to YOUR alignment. It tells me very little about your thought process. What data you chose to include might, but that's still me interpreting stuff without any real lead from you as to where you were trying to go.
So lets try this again, without the outburst please. Why is Sloth scum?
well his ability is utterly useless for mafia, except to come off as townie, and its literally confirmable, you can all assume why I know this
I am less interested in this yeet solely for that reason
Can someone who knows what gets confirmed when Bur gets skilled just spill the beans, if it's not harmful to disclose? If the mafia don't already know, I'm sure they could easily find out.
don’t think either of them have roles that are alignment indicative though.
Does anybody have an actual townread on Azrael? Like honest to goodness actual townread? I’m struggling to see him as town at all, and I’m kicking myself for my pragmatism yesterday instead of just voting there. So if you have an actual tiebreak there, could you please help me with what I’m just not seeing? It feels like nobody has an actual townreads there but are afraid to pull the plug. I wanna pull that plug.
A) He is putting in serious effort to analyze people. If he's scum he's leaving a paper trail a mile wide, and if he's town he's a great asset. Better to leave him alive for longer and go after some players who won't be missed if they are town.
B) You kinda had to live through it and I think you might have just been absent from the thread, but he really did revitalize a dead thread D2. He saw the game stagnate and his response was to crank out some analysis. Maybe that analysis was superficial but it got discussion restarted. That is town or an epically dedicated wolf. Occam's razor says the former.
no it doesn't, that is a superficial occam's razor
Alright chuckleheads, we've got up to three yeets to decide on if we let Wisp take one more shot at hitting a scum Wit. One of our yeets has to be someone who is not a wit for this to work. Also it's going to take a lot more coordination then this forum seems to be able to muster.
We are going to do an informal approval vote. Everyone list who you would be fine with being exiled today. Top three "winners" get voted off or killed by Wisp. Let's say an early deadline of Saturday night so we have enough time to arrange votes on Sunday.
I approve of yeeting: Tubba, Bur, HR, Cuth, KillJoy, Vaimes
boom - I wasn’t looking for pragmatic reasons. I’m good on those. I know what azrael did. If you’re saying he’s town because he could have continued blending with the other lurkers, okay I can grasp that. Mostly I’m looking for where I could be going wrong with the read. So, if you’re at this guy is town Tammy you’re nuts, talk to me.
Hey, I'm slowly trying to catch up, mostly just reading and getting an overall sense of where we are. Being sick + holidays sorta wrecked me, but I really don't want to slink off into replacementland on this one, so...I'm trying.
I'm going to try to post thoughts as I have them in an effort to keep somewhat active.
First question, with full disclosure of only having read a modicum of toDay's posts: I thought that Silver's assessment of Cuth being an actless scum being unlikely was pretty astute. Now that Silver's flipped town and we know that he was telling the truth, why are people suspecting Cuth?
I'm mostly asking this @Azrael and @Tubba, but just above here, @Boomfrog says he's ok yeeting Cuth, as well. Has something else happened to counter Silver's point? Or do people just feel like it's not as good a point as I do?
Can someone who knows what gets confirmed when Bur gets skilled just spill the beans, if it's not harmful to disclose? If the mafia don't already know, I'm sure they could easily find out.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Silver's point in 1574 on wolf!Bur not likely spending Vitality to talk to Tammy is a good one, too.
I like Bessie's tenacity. The kind of effort she's putting into attacking Tammy could come from scum, but it would have to be a conscious effort to go against a mountain of players vocalizing Tammy as town, and I feel like most scum, even ones with plenty of faith in their own abilities to push a misyeet (or even just sow small seeds of doubt in a general townread), would be more likely to push harder in a direction more likely to get traction. Town lean on Bessie.
Cuth's statement that he needs to kill Boom is a weird one. That kind of "goal-based" objective feels like the kind of thing I generally expect from a 3rd party role. Barring that, it feels suuuuuuper unlikely to be a "town needing to kill town" role. Mild modgaming, I suppose, but that doesn't feel likely (even as a "town gets mild boon when fellow town dies" when Cuth is bloodthirsting after a dead Boom). So I strongly suspect that Cuth and Boom are not both town. Fairly even odds that it's town!Cuth gaining a benefit from killing scum!Boom vs scum!Cuth gaining a benefit from killing town!Boom. Slight chance that scum!Cuth saw buddy!Boom likely going down already and gains a benefit if his buddy!Boom leaves the game and decided to make the benefit known, but....probably unlikely imo.
@Az: I just read 1624, so that answers my question to you from my last post.
Az's 1629 iso of me...feels somewhat unlikely to come from scum? I feel like I've probably made posts that could be twisted and attacked, and I've certainly not been active, so I probably would have been LHF at that point. So if Az is wolf, then either he a) doesn't feel like pushing a misyeet on me is going to go anywhere, or b) fears that pushing me as a misyeet will make me be active. I guess he could be trying to pocket me, but, again, I've been one of the least active players, so how is me being in his pocket going to help him?
Not a fan of Wisp charming HR without general consensus. I totally get why he did so, but... :/
1641 don't like that Az casually drops the possibility of someone investigating Wisp. Scum would love nothing more than town wasting investigative efforts on a 3pr.
Ok, I've made it through 150 posts in just over an hour. I will have at least another hour tomorrow during the day and another hour tomorrow night, maybe more. Halfway through I realized it might be better if I started with D3, but...that's not really how I roll.
Hey, I'm slowly trying to catch up, mostly just reading and getting an overall sense of where we are. Being sick + holidays sorta wrecked me, but I really don't want to slink off into replacementland on this one, so...I'm trying.
I'm going to try to post thoughts as I have them in an effort to keep somewhat active.
First question, with full disclosure of only having read a modicum of toDay's posts: I thought that Silver's assessment of Cuth being an actless scum being unlikely was pretty astute. Now that Silver's flipped town and we know that he was telling the truth, why are people suspecting Cuth?
I'm mostly asking this @Azrael and @Tubba, but just above here, @Boomfrog says he's ok yeeting Cuth, as well. Has something else happened to counter Silver's point? Or do people just feel like it's not as good a point as I do?
Silver’s argument was that Cuth didn’t take a night action. My argument is largely based on the fact that Cuth hasn’t taken any actions. I might even have more posts than him. They don’t respond to questions, they don’t engage with the thread, can you honestly think of someone they want eliminated, other than Boom, who they probably don’t even want anymore?
My question to you would be outside of Silver’s “clear”, what are you seeing that makes you think they’re town?
Silver does have a point tho, but then it's get superceded by exactly what Tubba said, the fact that Cuth has done literally nothing
Because mechanically games on this site usually have one goon to do night actions
If Cuth is a wolf, then Boom is also a wolf
It’s not even a point though. It’s almost meaningless. Cuth could have a day action which wouldn’t trigger. He could have an odd/even night ability which didn’t trigger, he could be holstering an ability for a later time. It’s a very minor data point which only proves that he didn’t take an action that night. If Silver hadn’t flipped town, he’d be in the ***** list with Cuth, because as a reason to townreading someone with so little input it’s incredibly weak.
If Silver hadn’t flipped town, he’d be in the ***** list with Cuth, because as a reason to townreading someone with so little input it’s incredibly weak.
That's not fair. At the time early D2 it was a good indication that Cuth was less likely to be a wolf. Did you not think Silver's approach to susing out Cuth was a townie approach?
But yeah, by now Cuth has dropped off hard, they don't seem to be scumhunting. It really feels like a 3rder who can't see a way to achieve their goal anymore. If we didn't have 3 yeets today I wouldn't want to waste one on them, but seems worth it in this case.
Can people please put down shortlists of who they think is worth yeeting? This isn't set in stone, you can change your list up until the saturday fake deadline.
Silver does have a point tho, but then it's get superceded by exactly what Tubba said, the fact that Cuth has done literally nothing
Because mechanically games on this site usually have one goon to do night actions
If Cuth is a wolf, then Boom is also a wolf
It’s not even a point though. It’s almost meaningless. Cuth could have a day action which wouldn’t trigger. He could have an odd/even night ability which didn’t trigger, he could be holstering an ability for a later time. It’s a very minor data point which only proves that he didn’t take an action that night. If Silver hadn’t flipped town, he’d be in the ***** list with Cuth, because as a reason to townreading someone with so little input it’s incredibly weak.
ok I mean we can assume a lot of things here, let's be honest, and if you and Azreal are both town, we have a lot more problems then just, Cuth, because that would call for some extreme evaluations
Also no, that assumption was perfectly fine, it's a very strong assumption, an assumption that would almost guarantee Cuth town, if he decided to play the game
But here we are
If Silver hadn’t flipped town, he’d be in the ***** list with Cuth, because as a reason to townreading someone with so little input it’s incredibly weak.
That's not fair. At the time early D2 it was a good indication that Cuth was less likely to be a wolf. Did you not think Silver's approach to susing out Cuth was a townie approach?
But yeah, by now Cuth has dropped off hard, they don't seem to be scumhunting. It really feels like a 3rder who can't see a way to achieve their goal anymore. If we didn't have 3 yeets today I wouldn't want to waste one on them, but seems worth it in this case.
Can people please put down shortlists of who they think is worth yeeting? This isn't set in stone, you can change your list up until the saturday fake deadline.
this playstyle is strange regardless of his alignment, gun to my head Cuth probably is town, I'm finna try to re-evaluate everything since I don't feel like anyone outside Azreal is actually bothering with this game anymore
Also no, that assumption was perfectly fine, it's a very strong assumption, an assumption that would almost guarantee Cuth town, if he decided to play the game
But here we are
It’s a fine starting off point maybe, or fine in conjunction with x, but as far as being a sole reason to town read?? **** outta here, it is not.
Also no, that assumption was perfectly fine, it's a very strong assumption, an assumption that would almost guarantee Cuth town, if he decided to play the game
But here we are
It’s a fine starting off point maybe, or fine in conjunction with x, but as far as being a sole reason to town read?? **** outta here, it is not.
what exactly is the wolf case outside him not doing anything? Like I can argue him creating a dichotomy was terrible, and then pretending that he didn't via some apparent breadcrumb, but like that always gets him killed if he is a wolf.
PTAP: I was going to return to catch up today but...I can't.
I' m very distraught right now due to what's going on and can't focus on anything. I'll try to be back soon.
Apologies.
Nobody will deny that Cuth isn't obviously being toxic with his playstyle tho
life has been taxing
i want to fully catch up and start playing again
but i'm not there yet
and in the meantime i've at least been trying to play the game mechanically if nothing else
i've claimed more in detail to vaimes (at the start of the day via free skill)
i also explained how my role target works
again, i selected boom at the start of yesterday and pushed a bit there because while there was zero reason not to yeet him getting pro-town mechanical things from it was +ev; obviously i didn't want to yeet him as of eod2
i feel bad for not being here more and doing more and all, and i would never intentionally do this
but at the same time it's where i'm at right now, and please forgive me for that
PTAP: I was going to return to catch up today but...I can't.
I' m very distraught right now due to what's going on and can't focus on anything. I'll try to be back soon.
Apologies.
^
One of my votes will probably be on Azrael. Don't know who for the other one though, but it won't be on wisp. Too angry about the world right now to waffle about mafia or worry that I'm wrong.
If we either vote two people with wit, or he charms one then he can leave and we can continue.
At least one if not two of the original witted people should be scum, and Azrael should be one also as I looked up his character and he has wit though I guess I don't want to flavor game it too much. But if the wit stealer or whatever killed one of GJ or Silver is mafia, and wisp is truthful about his role, which I think he is, then mafia having a way to extra kill, and the 3p having a target list of 5 town that he can kill just feels like way too much kill power against town. I've wondered if the two kills means opposing scum teams or another potential third party? That doesn't feel quite right, but also makes me wonder about the likelihood that all five original wit characters are town.
I approve of yeeting: Tubba, Bur, HR, Cuth, KillJoy, Vaimes
I already talked a little bit about this with/at Bur, but I actually think all/most of these are villagers. With a ton of waffling, yes, but still.
I'm a villager.
I liked Tubba's claim and readslist, but he's also the sort of reactionary player who tends to get poe voted out all the time.
I don't like Bur, I just don't see him as part of any sort of team.
Highroller seems town via meta. I don't have any sort of base for how scum!HR would behave, but I think he can get more creative than chasing after a neutral. He doesn't seem the type to struggle with posting content otherwise, could be wrong, shrug shrug.
Cuth has his claim, and I don't think his activity means anything. It's just bad. I'd expect him to be a little more pushy [as scum] since he kind of has a softclear via a dead villager.
KJ just seems like his townself, I don't really have anything specific I can point to. I read a bit of his ISO however many days/weeks ago and he reads pure to me. The ultimate snow, maybe.
With me leaning town on basically all the LHF, I kind of want to kill Az and Boom. I hate having to decide if Az being like, the only person who actively cares about the game is a ploy to make himself unkillable. Sepple burned me with this kind of read so I am actively trying not to care about that specific argument. Maybe I want to kill Sloth too, since he fooled me pretty well last time.
Actually I'm thinking back to the time Tubba was outed mafia in a dichotomy and I wasn't even totally sure if he was scum, sooo. Put a pin in that read.
I'll try to reread tomorrow, I meant to do it today but loldc.
I approve of yeeting: Tubba, Bur, HR, Cuth, KillJoy, Vaimes
I already talked a little bit about this with/at Bur, but I actually think all/most of these are villagers. With a ton of waffling, yes, but still.
I'm a villager.
I liked Tubba's claim and readslist, but he's also the sort of reactionary player who tends to get poe voted out all the time.
I don't like Bur, I just don't see him as part of any sort of team.
Highroller seems town via meta. I don't have any sort of base for how scum!HR would behave, but I think he can get more creative than chasing after a neutral. He doesn't seem the type to struggle with posting content otherwise, could be wrong, shrug shrug.
Cuth has his claim, and I don't think his activity means anything. It's just bad. I'd expect him to be a little more pushy [as scum] since he kind of has a softclear via a dead villager.
KJ just seems like his townself, I don't really have anything specific I can point to. I read a bit of his ISO however many days/weeks ago and he reads pure to me. The ultimate snow, maybe.
With me leaning town on basically all the LHF, I kind of want to kill Az and Boom. I hate having to decide if Az being like, the only person who actively cares about the game is a ploy to make himself unkillable. Sepple burned me with this kind of read so I am actively trying not to care about that specific argument. Maybe I want to kill Sloth too, since he fooled me pretty well last time.
Exactly this, except I think Bur is good mechanically
Gaines talk to me about sloth. I liked his eod and went into night thinking that he had something damaging on azrael. But then today I don’t know. I keep writing him off as town so I’d really like to hear your thoughts.
Gaines talk to me about sloth. I liked his eod and went into night thinking that he had something damaging on azrael. But then today I don’t know. I keep writing him off as town so I’d really like to hear your thoughts.
Nothing specific now, but I'll get back to you soon hopefully. I just have too many townreads, so I'm turning my eyes onto people I've been townreading and think might be giving me the slip.
I just thought his “I’m going to be mad if azrael ends up being mafia” thing felt pretty genuine, and overnight while I was thinking about things I thought maybe he had a result on him of some sort, but I think if my overnight thought was true he’d enter today differently. So that was probably a stupid thought. Oh I also liked how he got a bit after me for waffling on Johnny when he thought I should be going harder at him. Dunno.
I am going to bed now. Also sorry if none of this makes sense and/or is a typo disaster. I’m so tired that I literally can’t read my screen.
So basically the defense for Azrael has amounted to BoomFrog saying, "But he's really active." Which, if that's your defense, it's pretty much a concession.
The correct answer is Azrael should have died even before GJ flipped town. Hopefully this situation will be remedied today.
Unofficial count of people not voting anyone: (6) Anak, Bur, Cantrip, Bessie, KJ, Tammy
else Boom is our only protection, an utterly weak protection, that amps up when we kill mafia, which makes literally no sense, unless he lied and claimed the opposite, to either hide the specifics of his role as town, to seem weaker, or maliciously as Killjoy perceives, which makes sense, for a wolf to amp up as other wolves die, another player who has seemed to die down to nothingness along with literally everyone else
I am looking at you Cantrip/Cuth
cause honestly his role makes no ******* sense as claimed.
At this moment in time, I feel like I'm one of the town's last offensive weapons. In the midst of trying to lead that charge and analyze the rest of the town that I haven't gotten to, you ask me to do a massive project that I don't have near enough time to accomplish, and zero interest in reiterating. Your charge against was that you worried my reads were baseless. Well, dropping a sheaf of my notes on your hand was certainly not what you had in mind, and is of absolutely no use to you in actually following those reads and the origins of them, but at their heart they all boil down (as they always have, in every one of my games) to me finding bits and scrapes and pieces of innocuous seeming townie tells, that wouldn't ordinarily or organically come from anyone but the most motivated and subtle scum players.
So if you wanted to see me spout out some version of "these seven posts here, organic townie thoughts, not likely to be faked", multiplied by every single town post I've tracked across the thread, no. There ain't time for that.
But if your issue is you doubt that I'm actually pursuing that endeavor, if you're trying to read me rather than have me do the work for you, the evidence is staring you in the face, and it's more than sufficient for that purpose.
And again, if your issue is my read on Sloth, go back and read that analysis read-through that I made just a few days IRL. I don't have time to reiterate something I already JUST posted in this thread, not when there's still so much to be done and many of the town that were most willing and most able to pitch in have already been culled. I'm back to work, I don't have time to waste on that - I barely have time to spend on this game at all now. Every attorney at our firm is full to bursting with cases, we're still down at least one support staff, we need to hire an extra attorney, juggle my existing case load, train everyone we've recently hired, and still keep an eye on the rest of my staff. I would much rather spend the time I have, when I'm too weary from working through the day and into the night and I'm ready to switch over to doing eye-bleeding PBPAs as my break, on actually tracking down and finding the scum rather than fielding complaints about how I haven't served up material that I already posted two days ago.
I know that's short-tempered and acerbic, but I'd rather you have the benefit of reading that fury and knowing it's genuine, than have to suffer through more of these distractions. I'm a limited resource, and this is NOT how you want to expend me before the scum finally realize that they won't be able to lynch me and will have expend a NK.
Kennit. They already killed Kennit. They have free rein, man.
https://www.scribd.com/document/489898529/Mafia-SS
It shows when the doc was uploaded, so there should be no question of it being edited to circumvent the rules, any more than there would be if I coppy-pasted the reads in thread.
I meant that anyone leading a tied vote at L-1 can hammer the other person and ensure they aren’t eliminated, not just Wisp. And if it’s a choice between getting eliminated and outing one’s self by hammering the other vote leader, well why wouldn’t they?
If Wisp flips not as an independent, but as a member of a faction, then I would reconsider analyzing Highroller’s Wisp-related content. I don’t think Wisp is lying about being independent. Which means Wisp can be attacked by town and non-town so I don’t see what Highroller is doing as alignment indicative.
And interesting choice of words there. What makes you think Highroller should by default be on my elimination list?
I did those four reads because they were specifically requested by Azrael, not because they are on the top of my elimination list. And I already said I would vote for Cuthalion so I’m not sure what you are trying to imply with your question. My list from yesterday holds, I have not seen anything yet today that would change it. I am trying to put together an ordered list but I’m having trouble separating out some of the players in my mind.
I skilled and claimed to Bur, so yeah same.
@Az: I'm not saying you should have spent moer time on stuff, I was looking for a summary of your reasoning on Sloth. A conclusion. What you gave me was the raw data. That is, literally, the exact opposite of what I wanted. What I extrapolate from your raw data isn't relevent to YOUR alignment. It tells me very little about your thought process. What data you chose to include might, but that's still me interpreting stuff without any real lead from you as to where you were trying to go.
So lets try this again, without the outburst please. Why is Sloth scum?
*eye twitches violently, shoves cantankerous grumpy old man back in the closet*
I did that big read-through post several days ago where I literally about-faced and said Sloth probably is NOT scum. And why. With post and quote analysis, conclusions, everything. That's what I'm referring to. Not the raw data-dump.
The big time crunch that I'm referring to is that you asked me if I could justify (in addition to Sloth) all my other town reads. So, like, eight people's worth of analysis. That's where I get super twitchy about time commitments.
B) You kinda had to live through it and I think you might have just been absent from the thread, but he really did revitalize a dead thread D2. He saw the game stagnate and his response was to crank out some analysis. Maybe that analysis was superficial but it got discussion restarted. That is town or an epically dedicated wolf. Occam's razor says the former.
I am less interested in this yeet solely for that reason
We are going to do an informal approval vote. Everyone list who you would be fine with being exiled today. Top three "winners" get voted off or killed by Wisp. Let's say an early deadline of Saturday night so we have enough time to arrange votes on Sunday.
I approve of yeeting: Tubba, Bur, HR, Cuth, KillJoy, Vaimes
boom - I wasn’t looking for pragmatic reasons. I’m good on those. I know what azrael did. If you’re saying he’s town because he could have continued blending with the other lurkers, okay I can grasp that. Mostly I’m looking for where I could be going wrong with the read. So, if you’re at this guy is town Tammy you’re nuts, talk to me.
I'm going to try to post thoughts as I have them in an effort to keep somewhat active.
First question, with full disclosure of only having read a modicum of toDay's posts: I thought that Silver's assessment of Cuth being an actless scum being unlikely was pretty astute. Now that Silver's flipped town and we know that he was telling the truth, why are people suspecting Cuth?
I'm mostly asking this @Azrael and @Tubba, but just above here, @Boomfrog says he's ok yeeting Cuth, as well. Has something else happened to counter Silver's point? Or do people just feel like it's not as good a point as I do?
I like Bessie's tenacity. The kind of effort she's putting into attacking Tammy could come from scum, but it would have to be a conscious effort to go against a mountain of players vocalizing Tammy as town, and I feel like most scum, even ones with plenty of faith in their own abilities to push a misyeet (or even just sow small seeds of doubt in a general townread), would be more likely to push harder in a direction more likely to get traction. Town lean on Bessie.
Cuth's statement that he needs to kill Boom is a weird one. That kind of "goal-based" objective feels like the kind of thing I generally expect from a 3rd party role. Barring that, it feels suuuuuuper unlikely to be a "town needing to kill town" role. Mild modgaming, I suppose, but that doesn't feel likely (even as a "town gets mild boon when fellow town dies" when Cuth is bloodthirsting after a dead Boom). So I strongly suspect that Cuth and Boom are not both town. Fairly even odds that it's town!Cuth gaining a benefit from killing scum!Boom vs scum!Cuth gaining a benefit from killing town!Boom. Slight chance that scum!Cuth saw buddy!Boom likely going down already and gains a benefit if his buddy!Boom leaves the game and decided to make the benefit known, but....probably unlikely imo.
@Az: I just read 1624, so that answers my question to you from my last post.
Az's 1629 iso of me...feels somewhat unlikely to come from scum? I feel like I've probably made posts that could be twisted and attacked, and I've certainly not been active, so I probably would have been LHF at that point. So if Az is wolf, then either he a) doesn't feel like pushing a misyeet on me is going to go anywhere, or b) fears that pushing me as a misyeet will make me be active. I guess he could be trying to pocket me, but, again, I've been one of the least active players, so how is me being in his pocket going to help him?
Not a fan of Wisp charming HR without general consensus. I totally get why he did so, but... :/
1641 don't like that Az casually drops the possibility of someone investigating Wisp. Scum would love nothing more than town wasting investigative efforts on a 3pr.
Ok, I've made it through 150 posts in just over an hour. I will have at least another hour tomorrow during the day and another hour tomorrow night, maybe more. Halfway through I realized it might be better if I started with D3, but...that's not really how I roll.
Silver’s argument was that Cuth didn’t take a night action. My argument is largely based on the fact that Cuth hasn’t taken any actions. I might even have more posts than him. They don’t respond to questions, they don’t engage with the thread, can you honestly think of someone they want eliminated, other than Boom, who they probably don’t even want anymore?
My question to you would be outside of Silver’s “clear”, what are you seeing that makes you think they’re town?
Because mechanically games on this site usually have one goon to do night actions
If Cuth is a wolf, then Boom is also a wolf
It’s not even a point though. It’s almost meaningless. Cuth could have a day action which wouldn’t trigger. He could have an odd/even night ability which didn’t trigger, he could be holstering an ability for a later time. It’s a very minor data point which only proves that he didn’t take an action that night. If Silver hadn’t flipped town, he’d be in the ***** list with Cuth, because as a reason to townreading someone with so little input it’s incredibly weak.
But yeah, by now Cuth has dropped off hard, they don't seem to be scumhunting. It really feels like a 3rder who can't see a way to achieve their goal anymore. If we didn't have 3 yeets today I wouldn't want to waste one on them, but seems worth it in this case.
Can people please put down shortlists of who they think is worth yeeting? This isn't set in stone, you can change your list up until the saturday fake deadline.
But here we are
It’s a fine starting off point maybe, or fine in conjunction with x, but as far as being a sole reason to town read?? **** outta here, it is not.
I' m very distraught right now due to what's going on and can't focus on anything. I'll try to be back soon.
Apologies.
life has been taxing
i want to fully catch up and start playing again
but i'm not there yet
and in the meantime i've at least been trying to play the game mechanically if nothing else
i've claimed more in detail to vaimes (at the start of the day via free skill)
i also explained how my role target works
again, i selected boom at the start of yesterday and pushed a bit there because while there was zero reason not to yeet him getting pro-town mechanical things from it was +ev; obviously i didn't want to yeet him as of eod2
i feel bad for not being here more and doing more and all, and i would never intentionally do this
but at the same time it's where i'm at right now, and please forgive me for that
^
One of my votes will probably be on Azrael. Don't know who for the other one though, but it won't be on wisp. Too angry about the world right now to waffle about mafia or worry that I'm wrong.
If we either vote two people with wit, or he charms one then he can leave and we can continue.
At least one if not two of the original witted people should be scum, and Azrael should be one also as I looked up his character and he has wit though I guess I don't want to flavor game it too much. But if the wit stealer or whatever killed one of GJ or Silver is mafia, and wisp is truthful about his role, which I think he is, then mafia having a way to extra kill, and the 3p having a target list of 5 town that he can kill just feels like way too much kill power against town. I've wondered if the two kills means opposing scum teams or another potential third party? That doesn't feel quite right, but also makes me wonder about the likelihood that all five original wit characters are town.
This likely means I need to expand/revise my reads.
I'm a villager.
I liked Tubba's claim and readslist, but he's also the sort of reactionary player who tends to get poe voted out all the time.
I don't like Bur, I just don't see him as part of any sort of team.
Highroller seems town via meta. I don't have any sort of base for how scum!HR would behave, but I think he can get more creative than chasing after a neutral. He doesn't seem the type to struggle with posting content otherwise, could be wrong, shrug shrug.
Cuth has his claim, and I don't think his activity means anything. It's just bad. I'd expect him to be a little more pushy [as scum] since he kind of has a softclear via a dead villager.
KJ just seems like his townself, I don't really have anything specific I can point to. I read a bit of his ISO however many days/weeks ago and he reads pure to me. The ultimate snow, maybe.
With me leaning town on basically all the LHF, I kind of want to kill Az and Boom. I hate having to decide if Az being like, the only person who actively cares about the game is a ploy to make himself unkillable. Sepple burned me with this kind of read so I am actively trying not to care about that specific argument. Maybe I want to kill Sloth too, since he fooled me pretty well last time.
Vote Boomfrog, Vote Sloth
I kind of also want to ask about your claim a bit, can I word the question really vaguely?
I'll try to reread tomorrow, I meant to do it today but loldc.
I just thought his “I’m going to be mad if azrael ends up being mafia” thing felt pretty genuine, and overnight while I was thinking about things I thought maybe he had a result on him of some sort, but I think if my overnight thought was true he’d enter today differently. So that was probably a stupid thought. Oh I also liked how he got a bit after me for waffling on Johnny when he thought I should be going harder at him. Dunno.
I am going to bed now. Also sorry if none of this makes sense and/or is a typo disaster. I’m so tired that I literally can’t read my screen.
The correct answer is Azrael should have died even before GJ flipped town. Hopefully this situation will be remedied today.
Unofficial count of people not voting anyone: (6) Anak, Bur, Cantrip, Bessie, KJ, Tammy
Let's get on it, guys. Vote.
Unofficial vote count:
Az (5): Highroller, Sloth, Cuth, Tubba, LastWhisper
Tubba (3): Cuth, BoomFrog, LastWhisper
Wisp (2): Highroller, Sloth
Bur (1): Az
Cuth (2): Tubba, Az
Vaimes (1): BoomFrog
BoomFrog (1): Vaimes
Sloth (1): Vaimes
With 14 alive majority is 8.
At this point, man, just pick someone. You can change your vote later if you change your mind.