I'm not really hunting for wolves, so if you're gonna try to wolf read me for "not hunting" on day 1 you might as well cut to the chase like Iso did
I'm gonna find a bunch of people I'm pretty sure are villagers so the wolves are in a tiny box from which they cannot escape
-------------
Tubba is probably a villager; I don't think I want to kill wisp, though, with the understanding that that means he should be allowed to achieve his wincon and not exiled closer to exile-or-lose because we need to hit wolves
this is the way
The way to get people to quit mafia, I agree.
until we find a way to reliably catch wolves
the efficacy of villager-hunting and village-coring is pretty high
it doesn't even diminish the value of individual effort and solving, it just sets up a system of checks and balances and anchors the village around a central core of trust
I think after a lot of time goes by and u can't affectively btell me someone u hate and why it's starts to get a bit fishy, but working backwards is definitely not that bad of a strategy. It's usually easier to find reasons to town read someone than to scum read others
I'm not really hunting for wolves, so if you're gonna try to wolf read me for "not hunting" on day 1 you might as well cut to the chase like Iso did
I'm gonna find a bunch of people I'm pretty sure are villagers so the wolves are in a tiny box from which they cannot escape
-------------
Tubba is probably a villager; I don't think I want to kill wisp, though, with the understanding that that means he should be allowed to achieve his wincon and not exiled closer to exile-or-lose because we need to hit wolves
this is the way
The way to get people to quit mafia, I agree.
until we find a way to reliably catch wolves
the efficacy of villager-hunting and village-coring is pretty high
it doesn't even diminish the value of individual effort and solving, it just sets up a system of checks and balances and anchors the village around a central core of trust
You say that like town hunting is reliable. Do you know how many games I have seen lost because a couple wolves slip into the deep reads, and stay there? Doesn't even raise an eyebrow when the POE drops a kill role for the wolves.
Also, town hunting is easy to fake, but it's not like the two are mutually exclusive. Literally every player in the game town hunts and wolf hunts. The wolves job is to look like they are also town/wolf hunting.
eek I was ready to sheep the hell out of iso if I thought he was town.
I don't think he's town
Talk about this?
Tammy you never talked about this. Disappoint.
I missed this. But I did briefly talk to vaimes about this which was exactly where I was when you asked this.
I had a knee jerk dislike of his first catchup post, felt superficial and I disagreed with a few things. I’ve liked his other catchups more though, and he had some good off the cuff sounding reasoning last night that I liked in both tone and flow. I have him as probable town now.
You say that like town hunting is reliable. Do you know how many games I have seen lost because a couple wolves slip into the deep reads, and stay there? Doesn't even raise an eyebrow when the POE drops a kill role for the wolves.
Also, town hunting is easy to fake, but it's not like the two are mutually exclusive. Literally every player in the game town hunts and wolf hunts. The wolves job is to look like they are also town/wolf hunting.
I missed this. But I did briefly talk to vaimes about this which was exactly where I was when you asked this.
I had a knee jerk dislike of his first catchup post, felt superficial and I disagreed with a few things. I’ve liked his other catchups more though, and he had some good off the cuff sounding reasoning last night that I liked in both tone and flow. I have him as probable town now.
I told Tammy in our chat already but I share these exact sentiments.
Actually no I stand by Cuth's post/my earlier post
Sloth isn't a popular wolf read but his posts are...
easy to push if you're looking for someone to push
And Azrael doesn't really say "this is why Sloth is a wolf" as much as he just says "Sloth is objectively wolfy", "kill it with fire" and variations thereof
It's just empty rhetoric
vote: Azrael
This was a bit of a mind meld.
Thing is with sloth is that he’s an easy push. His posts often times look like he’s just combing the thread looking for posts he can ask questions about and they look like easy questions that don’t often seem like they’re actual scumhunting questions. Or at least that’s my take. I believe he ends up getting lynched day one a lot for his style regardless of his alignment.
I have him as a town lean because as of right now I don’t think he has an agenda.
You say that like town hunting is reliable. Do you know how many games I have seen lost because a couple wolves slip into the deep reads, and stay there? Doesn't even raise an eyebrow when the POE drops a kill role for the wolves.
Also, town hunting is easy to fake, but it's not like the two are mutually exclusive. Literally every player in the game town hunts and wolf hunts. The wolves job is to look like they are also town/wolf hunting.
Also lol at trying to do that day 1 exclusively.
How about some optimism for once.
You are one of two people who have met me face to face, does optimism seem like my thing?
@Silver: I’m probably not in your town pile because of my Champs qualifier, right?
I would argue that that same qualifier is a good reason to be very careful with your “form a core and paint scum in a corner” strat?
Johnny that’s a nit picky question that serves no purpose. He liked at least one thing I publicly stated I didn’t like it, and considering it’s something you and I have gone on at length about, should be easy to intuit that. And it doesn’t matter because I don’t feel that way anymore.
High roller - I’m responding to your neutral party response to me but I’m on my phone and quoting that response is too much.
I understand that sometimes a 3p in the game can cost the game for town, but I’ve also been in games with 3p which have done nothing really to hurt towns chances of winning, and have had 3p actually be a help to town.
I do not think leaving alive a 3p for this moment is going to do grave damage to town. If you think he’s lying and he’s really mafia, that’s one thing, but if you believe his claim then leave it alone for right now.
And really it’s a moot point that should quite frankly not be addressed again. Only high roller and tuba (azrael?) want to eliminate him which means you’re not reaching majority on this, and continued arguing is just a distraction today. It’s an easy place for scum to hide because it takes up valuable headspace. Might as well accept it, look for scum to yeet and begrudgingly move on. Make a discussion thread about what we should do with claimed neutrals after the game if it makes you feel better.
You say that like town hunting is reliable. Do you know how many games I have seen lost because a couple wolves slip into the deep reads, and stay there? Doesn't even raise an eyebrow when the POE drops a kill role for the wolves.
Also, town hunting is easy to fake, but it's not like the two are mutually exclusive. Literally every player in the game town hunts and wolf hunts. The wolves job is to look like they are also town/wolf hunting.
Also lol at trying to do that day 1 exclusively.
i do, because ime it absolutely is
i'm not saying it's 100%
but of course part of the system is that a) you're re-evaluating based on information (if you and your town core have a similar good-feeling view of the gamestate and then you flip a couple of villagers maybe you should think about why you trust these people again) and b) you're intentionally calling them villagery for some substantially >rand v behavior and then setting a very high bar for them once you feel like you're at that point trust-wise
not that many players are able to continually bring it as wolves, while still hitting all the right notes, while also not looking weird for still being alive lategame after being universally town-read
does this approach occasionally leave wolves in the town-core? yes, but since it's a process of collaboration with effectively every villager in the game it takes a good deal of oversight or laziness to just hand out village points for bad reasons such that somebody becomes consensus v
the strongest v wins i've seen are a result of exactly this happening d1-- villagers find each other, form a central basis, work together the rest of the game to solve
wolf wins in sufficiently strong playerlists (and i'd argue that this counts) tend to come from a lack of village cohesion more than anything else
usually someone or other will catch a wolf, but if there isn't a chunk of villagers that are pretty confident on each other's alignments and collaborating towards solving the poe it's a lot easier to nudge the game in the direction of certain worlds/safely distance/etc
whereas if you already have a generally trustworthy group of villagers it becomes a lot less about who's being wolfy and who could be with whom (until sufficient info), which is liable to tend towards lhf/bad worlds-based yeets, and more about who's not being villagery
I liked tubbas “I don’t believe you” gif in response to wisp. That’s a terrible reason to town read someone I know, but I do.
Right now my town reads of varying strengths are: vaimes, iso, sloth, silver, cuth, killjoy
Could easily see scum in azrael, crop circles, chad.
Azrael - blusteriness bugged me. I think a bit of performance feel is standard for him iirc but this felt a little over the top.
Cc - I didn’t like the why me feel of 128 as it was a super benign statement in the first place. Hesitant to lock scum on this because I’m pretty sure the people who reacted this way in the thing were all town and I scumread the reaction too. Thought his push against sloth felt weak. (Though I did like his “do tell” response to me saying that he could be scum. I just liked it)
Chad - scum catch up post.
Purposefully leaving Johnny out of this because I don’t know where my heart wants him, and I’m trying to set him to the side and leave him alone to give that some breathing space that I’ll revisit later.
I’ve probably missed a lot of the past few pages. I’ve been mostly skimming to keep up, but finals week is next week and I’m trying to get these papers and presentations graded before they turn in their final papers and presentations. (Teaching 6 classes online means a crap ton of grading!). Anyway I’m hoping to be done with that today, tomorrow at the latest and then I can start paying better attention for a few days.
Iso - nacho went *pouty face* I miss iso to which I replied well you should have signed up for the game fool!
and as someone who lets his ego get in the way of winning games too often
that's a nice benefit
in other news
i will cackle if vaimes and tammy are wolves together
Have you seen vaimes more recent scum games? I know it’s gotten better than when we were in misery during 3 little pigs but my thought is that this just isn’t his scum game.
Do you have hesitation there? Or was that just a little chirp of paranoia showing through or just a joke?
and as someone who lets his ego get in the way of winning games too often
that's a nice benefit
in other news
i will cackle if vaimes and tammy are wolves together
Have you seen vaimes more recent scum games? I know it’s gotten better than when we were in misery during 3 little pigs but my thought is that this just isn’t his scum game.
Do you have hesitation there? Or was that just a little chirp of paranoia showing through or just a joke?
i
have not
i don't think he's necessarily out of his wolf-range (though if he maintained this for all of d1 that would probably change), but we all seem to be on a pretty similar wavelength so i'm not too concerned aorn
i mostly made the comment because of the private chat references
and as someone who lets his ego get in the way of winning games too often
that's a nice benefit
in other news
i will cackle if vaimes and tammy are wolves together
Have you seen vaimes more recent scum games? I know it’s gotten better than when we were in misery during 3 little pigs but my thought is that this just isn’t his scum game.
Do you have hesitation there? Or was that just a little chirp of paranoia showing through or just a joke?
i
have not
i don't think he's necessarily out of his wolf-range (though if he maintained this for all of d1 that would probably change), but we all seem to be on a pretty similar wavelength so i'm not too concerned aorn
i mostly made the comment because of the private chat references
Okay
(I think the vaimes read solidifies once Mafia starts losing members. If vaimes is still alive when that happens, that’s the key.)
Have you seen vaimes more recent scum games? I know it’s gotten better than when we were in misery during 3 little pigs but my thought is that this just isn’t his scum game.
Do you have hesitation there? Or was that just a little chirp of paranoia showing through or just a joke?
I did win my last scumgame, with the whole team (all two of us) alive.
Johnny that’s a nit picky question that serves no purpose. He liked at least one thing I publicly stated I didn’t like it, and considering it’s something you and I have gone on at length about, should be easy to intuit that. And it doesn’t matter because I don’t feel that way anymore.
It serves a ton of purpose. I just read back your iso after your comment about saying "you were ready to sheep Iso, but...." and tried to see if I missed you challenging the list, but saw you make no comment or challenge anything in his catch up post. Off the top of my head, I don't think you would agree with his stance on me, but I don't know what specific point he made that went directly across a point you disagree with, at least enough to the point that you would not like his catch up point.
Johnny that’s a nit picky question that serves no purpose. He liked at least one thing I publicly stated I didn’t like it, and considering it’s something you and I have gone on at length about, should be easy to intuit that. And it doesn’t matter because I don’t feel that way anymore.
It serves a ton of purpose. I just read back your iso after your comment about saying "you were ready to sheep Iso, but...." and tried to see if I missed you challenging the list, but saw you make no comment or challenge anything in his catch up post. Off the top of my head, I don't think you would agree with his stance on me, but I don't know what specific point he made that went directly across a point you disagree with, at least enough to the point that you would not like his catch up point.
Why are you being so defensive?
This quite frankly 90% of the time comes from scum. That last line? The amount of time town on this site accuse something really not defensive from me as defensive is really small, but scum here love to accuse anything I say as defensive.
I think it's a bad and dumb question, coming from you, and I'm annoyed you nitpicked at it, especially when I'm really really trying to set you to the side give and give that read and feel some breathing space, and maybe it's unfair of me but I have a better memory of you as a scumhunter.
The reason it's dumb is because it's a read that I said was knee-jerk response to the first post which I didn't agree with anymore. I still don't like the first post but whatever because I liked more of his follow up than that first post. I didn't challenge him on anything, you're right, but I don't have to. I made my reaction that I didn't like his first post known. Called him probably not town right away. Told Vaimes after the second post that I didn't like his first post, but I did like his second post so we'll see. I didn't need to challenge him on the chad thing which was something I didn't like from his second or third post because Vaimes did. And then he kept posting and I started thinking he was town.
I think your question was nitpicky and bad because it was in regards to a first post that I said was a knee jerk reaction. I think if you were really interested in my actual Iso read or if you were trying to get a read off of me or insight to Iso, which I doubt you need from me, your question would have shown more depth. I think why I ended up thinking he is town is way more interesting from a scum hunting perspective than why I knee jerk thought he wasn't town from his first post.
So you picking out a nitpicky thing from a knee jerk reaction reads not really interested but trying to nitpick, which is annoying, rather than actually trying to read where my mind is at and what made me change my mind there.
Then just vote me Tammy. I am sorry, I remember Iso saying he understood my point on KJ, and that was the one thing I went into depth with you, and couldn't figure out why you were being so repellent off it, which is why I said I read the iso because my thought was it was a post you made after that justified it, and I just missed it.
@LW: I think my issue is that even if you think the pressure I was getting was unfair because I might be w/w with you, I don't get why outing yourself there makes sense as a neutral. What do uyou care if it isn't the best reason? You have no way of knowing if I am on your kill list or not. FOr all you know, you could be driving people away from against your own win condition. That's why I am struggling with you alignment, even if the ability is provable. I just don't understand why you'd stick your neck out like that, especially for a player that you might need to kill eventually.
Probably over thinking it, but that's my issue with you post claim.
That was probably defensive and *****y and I’m sorry about that too.
(I’m at a point in the semester where I’m answering 50 million questions a day, and I’m feeling a bit stressed. That’s probably bleeding through; I don’t mean to be *****y.)
That was probably defensive and *****y and I’m sorry about that too.
(I’m at a point in the semester where I’m answering 50 million questions a day, and I’m feeling a bit stressed. That’s probably bleeding through; I don’t mean to be *****y.)
It's not your fault. I can just feel my ability to recall things slipping, and has been for a while. I don't understand why, and it's why I haven't been playing mafia that much. I have to do 5-10 minutes just to try and make sure I am following along when I try to recollect conversations, and pay attention to other people. I also understand the stupid question point all too well.
Then just vote me Tammy. I am sorry, I remember Iso saying he understood my point on KJ, and that was the one thing I went into depth with you, and couldn't figure out why you were being so repellent off it, which is why I said I read the iso because my thought was it was a post you made after that justified it, and I just missed it.
@LW: I think my issue is that even if you think the pressure I was getting was unfair because I might be w/w with you, I don't get why outing yourself there makes sense as a neutral. What do uyou care if it isn't the best reason? You have no way of knowing if I am on your kill list or not. FOr all you know, you could be driving people away from against your own win condition. That's why I am struggling with you alignment, even if the ability is provable. I just don't understand why you'd stick your neck out like that, especially for a player that you might need to kill eventually.
Probably over thinking it, but that's my issue with you post claim.
there is nothing to struggle with here, I'm firmly in my town meta but as a 3rd party neutral benign, claiming probably was dumb, but the reasoning for it isn't that out of place for me honestly.
My ability to recall things has been slipping away for a while
Idk I just don't think alternative win cons are that wolfy unless they specifically are trying to out beat Mafia and town, I'm more so just existing doing my own thing, while also trying to find mafia
Living, is the short answer.
Too many things have happened since we last saw each other actually, but for the most part I'm good.
Bought a new laptop for Black Friday - that was neat.
My dog was a lion for Halloween.
Ugh. I ****ed up that post didn't I. Here it is with the formatting corrected:
GJ really feels like he's trying to lead me somewhere with this KJ thing but I'm just not seeing it.
I think Rhand raises a good point about you preferring that he can't read you over you having caught scum.
I also don't see a strong attempt on you to figure out which of the two is it (misread or wolf) in your interactions with Wisp.
I am not a fan of how you deflected that line of questioning from him and switched to "why aren't you questioning him instead", brushing past the alternative of having caught him.
And lastly, the two underlined sections don't seem to match: One says that you believe he can/could read you and has lost that ability, and the second that dismisses this thought at Wisp "apparently bragging" (/being wrong).
I mean, the answer is already in the quote you have there: "of these Crops seemed the flimsiest with the 'trend' comment."
Longer answer is that Silver, Rhand and you had a lackadaisical approach to your votes to the tune of "haha, Iso, long time no see, let's vote you now since we haven't in forever" while he jumped in with a "I think I can get away with this, just following the mob" mentality. How do you view it?
His only other post only had one thing that would qualify as actual content and it was to piggyback on another again, agreeing with Tammy. It's not great, but tbf, there wasn't a whole lot to comment on (though definitely more than that).
I don't believe frustration matters for GJ's alignment. Remember when I caught him on his weird-ass gambit in Matter? He was plenty frustrated there. Can you give this read more weight?
My dude, I cannot think of a single person that was setting any sorts of special expectations towards you this game, least of all me.
You're mistaking (?) me questioning you on steps I would question anyone on on grounds of bizarre reasoning as me questioning it specifically because it's you - which isn't what's happening.
Or, this is fake outrage brought on by nothing that I can see, which, yeah. Plausible.
Not trying to bring this up again, just making sure: You've played with KJ before right? I know we were in Rebels and Matters, but not sure how often you have.
Btw, with all this "KJ has never been scum" talk - does Rebel not count for anyone?
Weird ambivalence aside, Tammy's probably town - KJ too.
Based on grammar and tone alone, Wisp might be town.
I like Silver too, though not sure if that's based on actual play. I do like how he thinks.
The fact that Rhand has that pirate motif and has yet to tunnel me this game is kind of throwing me off - like, is that seriously tom in disguise?
Joking aside, I legitimately feel thrown and I wonder if it's the motif that's causing it.
Chad is Chad. Just gonna keep prodding and try not to lose my mind.
I give weight to Wisp finding him scummy (how serious are you, @Wisp?)
Crops hanging to that RVS-bs (hah!) and tacking it on me as if I'm the only one that brought it up or found his reaction unearned is not a good look. That could be slighted-townie response tho, so eh.
Cantrip just has that one post lol. It doesn't look any better with the passage of time, but I really want him to come back.
Bur's trending down, said why.
GJ's got my vote.
This is not as clear-cut as 'town >>> scum' but more of a nebulous stream of takes
Everyone else needs to post more so I can keep forming opinions that are likely wrong.
Sigh. My sweet summer child, that is not what your takeaway should be.
Listen, I'm not engaging in a conversation with you about what you're saying because what you're saying is nonsense. This is not a jab, it's just objectively true. I'm not trying to point out how you're wrong because (1) you'd just dig your heels in, and (2) other players already have pointed out basic reasons why your responses and moves are based on faulty logic - which should be a clue btw: Either you're probably just wrong or no one else agrees with your obviously accurate assessment because...reasons.
I'm also not engaging because the more time that happens the more it seems to me that you're just stubborn townie with wounded pride that wants to be right. I feel scum would have probably backed off or not been quite so zealous?
Essentially, there's zero net benefit to me talking to you right now. If you do something I find objectively more scummy than just stubborn, I'll press on it but since that hasn't happened yet, go you.
That has got to be the weirdest way I've heard of someone trying to pocket a player that posted once while alienating the rest of the playerbase.
Hm. Probably town>rand.
first the scum pings (201 is a mistake, should be 301):
Silver is background noise for me. I can't actually tell if his takes are serious or not, and the few posts I have read just felt more like he is posting to coast and not posting to solve. Watching him.
Tammy, despite not being able to frame my point correctly seem genuine otherwise, and it's probably not intentional because why would it be. Lean town.
I don't know who the **** GF is in a gme where Grapefruit is the mod, or how you suddenly started forgetting my name but my vote is 100% real Wisp.
His catch up post was giving reads and asking questions. Better than half the game as far as I am concerned. He also follows up and doesn't just disappear.
Not debating that, and not voting him for that either. I literally don't care anymore apart from framing it incorrectly. My problem was one of can't vs won't. if you want to disagree with that, fine, but it's moot at this point anyway.
And what magical page number should I start pushing people? Asking for a friend.
Well I only have 1 vote today, so I got to start somewhere.
LW's already voting me, and basically slapping me down without really going elsewhere apart from maybe Rhand. Maybe you could I could argue I am treating him with kid gloves, but what makes you think Wisp is treating me with them?
Tammy questioning the town read on her is a relatively good look
@Vaimes: My core of hunting as town is basically boiled down to one fundamental question: Is this person trying to solve the game? Yes, they are town. No, they are wolf. I'll snag the occasional townie, but honestly, townies that aren't solving should be lynched more. Or get better at faking it, or I don't know. KJ's posts bother me because he will ask questions, and then do nothing with them. I also think he doesn't try to get people to follow him, and in particular, his response to me about no one doing anything just reads disdainfully.
He has half the team defending him from even questioning, so I don't really see a point in continuing. But I just roll my eyes and move on.
The only 2? No I wouldn't be that dismissive. You could also just be annoyingly oblivious, or not understand that from my perspective (and I am going to try not to lose my temper with Tammy because that's the third time she has incorrectly framed my issue with you on page 2. Or Wisp assuming my issue with you is only questions). You do understand the difference between couldn't and weren't right? And from my perspective, you were veering into weren't. Now, as obvious as a needle that was from LW, I am not voting you for that because I don't think that alone makes you a wolf, but it is enough to pressure you.
Bur is posting fine again. He seems like he is trying to solve. I like his questioning to Vaimes.
I get annoyed in general when I have to play an extra mind game to translate with an RP. If you want to rhyme or role play, or take on some role, but I can still comprehend what you are saying, I don't care. I had to google "natters" and neither me nor Wisp understood what he was saying about him at the time.
Like Jesus Christ, almost every other person is coddling him like this is his first game. Someone even went so far to say that they wouldn't consider him until day 3. Oh, that was you and CC. Yeah, where's this comment coming from?
Rhetoric.
Highroller's entrance is w.e. He feels like he is trying too hard, but that's Highroller's personality in debate to it's relatively nai.
1. Rhand is seemingly agendaless, and is asking questions and making comments that are indicative of solving the game.
2. Tammy’s post feel very town. Stayed calm and consistent without attacking during their interactions with Johnny.
3. Killjoy needs to give some more but looks like townKJ. He’s less plodding detective than locktownKJ, but I think it’s there.
3. Cropcircles looked like they were making a push with Mathgate, stalled out and now just occasionally sputter.
2. Azrael’s scum pings spreadsheet needs to be fleshed out quick. Maybe I’m just dum but I need the PowerPoint, stat. As a rule, I distrust a player coming out of the woodwork with a solve, and the backup evidence is lacking.
1.Chad’s disappearance after making a post that immediately got called out is not a good look. It’s a really bad look.
Now back to your regularly scheduled dead horse beating:
until we find a way to reliably catch wolves
the efficacy of villager-hunting and village-coring is pretty high
it doesn't even diminish the value of individual effort and solving, it just sets up a system of checks and balances and anchors the village around a central core of trust
i'm also pretty bad at correctly wolf-reading people
usually the more sure i am the less accurate i am
but i find incorrectly strongly reading someone v the entire game is quite rare
and if i find villagers and then make sure we're all more or less on the same page it means i have people to bounce ideas off of and sanity check me
and they'll always see things i don't
it's a win win
You say that like town hunting is reliable. Do you know how many games I have seen lost because a couple wolves slip into the deep reads, and stay there? Doesn't even raise an eyebrow when the POE drops a kill role for the wolves.
Also, town hunting is easy to fake, but it's not like the two are mutually exclusive. Literally every player in the game town hunts and wolf hunts. The wolves job is to look like they are also town/wolf hunting.
Also lol at trying to do that day 1 exclusively.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I missed this. But I did briefly talk to vaimes about this which was exactly where I was when you asked this.
I had a knee jerk dislike of his first catchup post, felt superficial and I disagreed with a few things. I’ve liked his other catchups more though, and he had some good off the cuff sounding reasoning last night that I liked in both tone and flow. I have him as probable town now.
Hooray 8k posts!
This was a bit of a mind meld.
Thing is with sloth is that he’s an easy push. His posts often times look like he’s just combing the thread looking for posts he can ask questions about and they look like easy questions that don’t often seem like they’re actual scumhunting questions. Or at least that’s my take. I believe he ends up getting lynched day one a lot for his style regardless of his alignment.
I have him as a town lean because as of right now I don’t think he has an agenda.
You are one of two people who have met me face to face, does optimism seem like my thing?
Why and which things of Iso did you not like?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
@Silver: I’m probably not in your town pile because of my Champs qualifier, right?
I would argue that that same qualifier is a good reason to be very careful with your “form a core and paint scum in a corner” strat?
I understand that sometimes a 3p in the game can cost the game for town, but I’ve also been in games with 3p which have done nothing really to hurt towns chances of winning, and have had 3p actually be a help to town.
I do not think leaving alive a 3p for this moment is going to do grave damage to town. If you think he’s lying and he’s really mafia, that’s one thing, but if you believe his claim then leave it alone for right now.
And really it’s a moot point that should quite frankly not be addressed again. Only high roller and tuba (azrael?) want to eliminate him which means you’re not reaching majority on this, and continued arguing is just a distraction today. It’s an easy place for scum to hide because it takes up valuable headspace. Might as well accept it, look for scum to yeet and begrudgingly move on. Make a discussion thread about what we should do with claimed neutrals after the game if it makes you feel better.
i do, because ime it absolutely is
i'm not saying it's 100%
but of course part of the system is that a) you're re-evaluating based on information (if you and your town core have a similar good-feeling view of the gamestate and then you flip a couple of villagers maybe you should think about why you trust these people again) and b) you're intentionally calling them villagery for some substantially >rand v behavior and then setting a very high bar for them once you feel like you're at that point trust-wise
not that many players are able to continually bring it as wolves, while still hitting all the right notes, while also not looking weird for still being alive lategame after being universally town-read
does this approach occasionally leave wolves in the town-core? yes, but since it's a process of collaboration with effectively every villager in the game it takes a good deal of oversight or laziness to just hand out village points for bad reasons such that somebody becomes consensus v
the strongest v wins i've seen are a result of exactly this happening d1-- villagers find each other, form a central basis, work together the rest of the game to solve
wolf wins in sufficiently strong playerlists (and i'd argue that this counts) tend to come from a lack of village cohesion more than anything else
usually someone or other will catch a wolf, but if there isn't a chunk of villagers that are pretty confident on each other's alignments and collaborating towards solving the poe it's a lot easier to nudge the game in the direction of certain worlds/safely distance/etc
whereas if you already have a generally trustworthy group of villagers it becomes a lot less about who's being wolfy and who could be with whom (until sufficient info), which is liable to tend towards lhf/bad worlds-based yeets, and more about who's not being villagery
and individual egos get in the way a lot less
that's a nice benefit
in other news
i will cackle if vaimes and tammy are wolves together
Right now my town reads of varying strengths are: vaimes, iso, sloth, silver, cuth, killjoy
Could easily see scum in azrael, crop circles, chad.
Azrael - blusteriness bugged me. I think a bit of performance feel is standard for him iirc but this felt a little over the top.
Cc - I didn’t like the why me feel of 128 as it was a super benign statement in the first place. Hesitant to lock scum on this because I’m pretty sure the people who reacted this way in the thing were all town and I scumread the reaction too. Thought his push against sloth felt weak. (Though I did like his “do tell” response to me saying that he could be scum. I just liked it)
Chad - scum catch up post.
Purposefully leaving Johnny out of this because I don’t know where my heart wants him, and I’m trying to set him to the side and leave him alone to give that some breathing space that I’ll revisit later.
I’ve probably missed a lot of the past few pages. I’ve been mostly skimming to keep up, but finals week is next week and I’m trying to get these papers and presentations graded before they turn in their final papers and presentations. (Teaching 6 classes online means a crap ton of grading!). Anyway I’m hoping to be done with that today, tomorrow at the latest and then I can start paying better attention for a few days.
Iso - nacho went *pouty face* I miss iso to which I replied well you should have signed up for the game fool!
Have you seen vaimes more recent scum games? I know it’s gotten better than when we were in misery during 3 little pigs but my thought is that this just isn’t his scum game.
Do you have hesitation there? Or was that just a little chirp of paranoia showing through or just a joke?
i
have not
i don't think he's necessarily out of his wolf-range (though if he maintained this for all of d1 that would probably change), but we all seem to be on a pretty similar wavelength so i'm not too concerned aorn
i mostly made the comment because of the private chat references
Okay
(I think the vaimes read solidifies once Mafia starts losing members. If vaimes is still alive when that happens, that’s the key.)
In case my previous post was confusing
Not to brag or anything.
do you think we should yeet you here just in case?
It serves a ton of purpose. I just read back your iso after your comment about saying "you were ready to sheep Iso, but...." and tried to see if I missed you challenging the list, but saw you make no comment or challenge anything in his catch up post. Off the top of my head, I don't think you would agree with his stance on me, but I don't know what specific point he made that went directly across a point you disagree with, at least enough to the point that you would not like his catch up point.
Why are you being so defensive?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
K.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
This quite frankly 90% of the time comes from scum. That last line? The amount of time town on this site accuse something really not defensive from me as defensive is really small, but scum here love to accuse anything I say as defensive.
I think it's a bad and dumb question, coming from you, and I'm annoyed you nitpicked at it, especially when I'm really really trying to set you to the side give and give that read and feel some breathing space, and maybe it's unfair of me but I have a better memory of you as a scumhunter.
The reason it's dumb is because it's a read that I said was knee-jerk response to the first post which I didn't agree with anymore. I still don't like the first post but whatever because I liked more of his follow up than that first post. I didn't challenge him on anything, you're right, but I don't have to. I made my reaction that I didn't like his first post known. Called him probably not town right away. Told Vaimes after the second post that I didn't like his first post, but I did like his second post so we'll see. I didn't need to challenge him on the chad thing which was something I didn't like from his second or third post because Vaimes did. And then he kept posting and I started thinking he was town.
I think your question was nitpicky and bad because it was in regards to a first post that I said was a knee jerk reaction. I think if you were really interested in my actual Iso read or if you were trying to get a read off of me or insight to Iso, which I doubt you need from me, your question would have shown more depth. I think why I ended up thinking he is town is way more interesting from a scum hunting perspective than why I knee jerk thought he wasn't town from his first post.
So you picking out a nitpicky thing from a knee jerk reaction reads not really interested but trying to nitpick, which is annoying, rather than actually trying to read where my mind is at and what made me change my mind there.
@LW: I think my issue is that even if you think the pressure I was getting was unfair because I might be w/w with you, I don't get why outing yourself there makes sense as a neutral. What do uyou care if it isn't the best reason? You have no way of knowing if I am on your kill list or not. FOr all you know, you could be driving people away from against your own win condition. That's why I am struggling with you alignment, even if the ability is provable. I just don't understand why you'd stick your neck out like that, especially for a player that you might need to kill eventually.
Probably over thinking it, but that's my issue with you post claim.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
(I’m at a point in the semester where I’m answering 50 million questions a day, and I’m feeling a bit stressed. That’s probably bleeding through; I don’t mean to be *****y.)
It's not your fault. I can just feel my ability to recall things slipping, and has been for a while. I don't understand why, and it's why I haven't been playing mafia that much. I have to do 5-10 minutes just to try and make sure I am following along when I try to recollect conversations, and pay attention to other people. I also understand the stupid question point all too well.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
My ability to recall things has been slipping away for a while
I don't require charity.
But again, why would you try to create that space for a potential target?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Everyone is a potential target, but here I am still scum hunting. I'm not going to play any different then I would if I was town
May be out of touch for a spell.
Reread sloth's post 3, 9, 20, 22, 93, 118, 120, 130, 187, 302, 303, 304, 316, 452, and 463. Those are his scum pings.
275, 278, 282, 285, 290 and 201, and 351.
Other post of interests of his are 38, 218, 270, 274.
Congrats on the soon-babby.
-
and then the posts of interest, whatever that means:
1. Rhand is seemingly agendaless, and is asking questions and making comments that are indicative of solving the game.
2. Tammy’s post feel very town. Stayed calm and consistent without attacking during their interactions with Johnny.
3. Killjoy needs to give some more but looks like townKJ. He’s less plodding detective than locktownKJ, but I think it’s there.
3. Cropcircles looked like they were making a push with Mathgate, stalled out and now just occasionally sputter.
2. Azrael’s scum pings spreadsheet needs to be fleshed out quick. Maybe I’m just dum but I need the PowerPoint, stat. As a rule, I distrust a player coming out of the woodwork with a solve, and the backup evidence is lacking.
1.Chad’s disappearance after making a post that immediately got called out is not a good look. It’s a really bad look.
Now back to your regularly scheduled dead horse beating:
@Last
Why did you target Cuthalion?
I already answered that, one of his posts early on pinged me
I personally wanted to hit lower posters, and not people getting heat