As far as my salt goes, nah. I used to get really angry because I have to make every post a dissertation, and have half the wolf team figured out by page 3, or people think I am not solving. I don't know why I am held to such an absurd standard, but it is what it is.
To sloth, apparently I am not solving enough. Wouldn't even be miffed if he said my solving came off as fake. But to say I am not attempting to solve just makes me furious.
Except now. Because I wear the mask of calmness. There is no anger here.
My dude, I cannot think of a single person that was setting any sorts of special expectations towards you this game, least of all me.
You're mistaking (?) me questioning you on steps I would question anyone on on grounds of bizarre reasoning as me questioning it specifically because it's you - which isn't what's happening.
Or, this is fake outrage brought on by nothing that I can see, which, yeah. Plausible.
@Vaimes: My core of hunting as town is basically boiled down to one fundamental question: Is this person trying to solve the game? Yes, they are town. No, they are wolf. I'll snag the occasional townie, but honestly, townies that aren't solving should be lynched more. Or get better at faking it, or I don't know. KJ's posts bother me because he will ask questions, and then do nothing with them. I also think he doesn't try to get people to follow him, and in particular, his response to me about no one doing anything just reads disdainfully.
He has half the team defending him from even questioning, so I don't really see a point in continuing. But I just roll my eyes and move on.
Not trying to bring this up again, just making sure: You've played with KJ before right? I know we were in Rebels and Matters, but not sure how often you have.
Btw, with all this "KJ has never been scum" talk - does Rebel not count for anyone?
Bur, you realize that when people like posts, it's basically saying the post reads townie?
I don't think I've ever used "liking" and "town-lean" as synonyms
I'm steadily trending down on Bur.
I've heard of people saying "like" about a player without it meaning that you think the player is townie, just that you like them, but never about a post - and it doesn't make sense in that context, if you don't think the post is townie what is there to like about it?
The numbers thing, as has been said, but there was more to that post that should have been a sticking point?
I can see this being a backtrack. I will follow it.
Sup Bur?
Of note, #231 seems like they're not reading the thread closely and looking for things to knee-jerk jump on (might explain the liking of CC's too).
That's not how statistics work - picking any four players totally at random has a 1 in 4 chance of getting scum assuming 25% scum population.
Super not interested in continuing down the statistics argument any further than it's already been addressed, and I doubt anyone else wants to read through it anyway.
Assessing the conscious moves 4 players made to distance themselves is not random picking.
It's not random picking, but it is as ineffective such. All you are really doing is throwing mass shade. And if you are assessing the players involved, then you are assessing the motivations of joke votes. Which, like...
Ftr, I honestly find this bizarrely strong reaction to me saying that your reasons were flimsy in comparison to the other 3 who also have flimsy reasons more of an eyebrow-raiser than the situation you're reacting to to begin with - which I did label as flimsy in itself, as in 'not worth pursuing on its own'.
All I said about your flimsy remark was that it was funny. This whole discussion has been about the scattershot shade. The flimsy remark is just icing on the cake.
It is pretty ridiculous though. It's a vote during RVS. It obviously wasn't meant to be taken seriously. So how could the flimsiness of it matter? What would I, as scum, hope to gain from a dogpile at that stage of the game? It's obviously not real pressure, not going to lead to a claim, not going to end in an elim, etc. So what exactly do you think I'm trying "to get away with?"
If 25% of the game is scum and you pick players at random, you have a 25% chance with each pick that you'll hit scum. If you have a 25% chance 4 times, you are most likely to hit one scum and three townies. Certainly you are most likely to hit at least one scum, which is what he is saying.
[...]
I realize his grouping is not random. But what he is saying is functionally as effective as picking players at random, and is therefor a useless statement.
...I have no idea what you're trying to prove here.
Does this make sense to anyone?
Your incredulity rings false. Whether or not you agree with it, what I am saying is pretty clear.
@Tammy: Have you formed an opinion on GJ yet? You were kinda going back and forth trying to clarify what he was thinking... did that do anything for you?
Oh gosh no. Where I'm at right now is that I feel like there's something rotten in the whispers of a deposed monarch, and I'm not sure if it's one, both, or neither at this moment. I don't like the argument that it was wolfy that you didn't find anything to move the game forward with by page two. Think that's a silly thing to push for that early in the game. (As an aside, scumGJ kind of defended Axelrod on a similar attack where someone though Axel hadn't been memorable by page three and he kind of scoffed at that. Not sure what to do with that in relation to this though, maybe nothing.) I didn't like the frustration at Rhand's rp because it didn't feel real. Oh and I didn't like the comment where he complained that he was doing more solving than anyone; though I could see this coming from either alignment.
That's really flimsy though and it could really add up to nothing quite frankly. It's just that something feels wrong? And it might more be the interaction between him and whisper? Whisper feels kinda posturey about things, like he's grandstanding. This is both in relation to you and to Johnny. I think whisper missed Silver's point that you're unlikely to self resolve by day three because there might be higher priority nk targets because he kinda sidestepped that point to grandstand about how he can leave you until day three and he doesn't want to hear about Johnny's question stuff regarding you. I got a similar feeling about his comment about Johnny's lack of vote. If Johnny is telling the truth about him being a conservative voter and Whisper has played with him several times then how does that go unnoticed? I might be projecting here, but I'm a conservative voter myself and it gets brought up nearly every game I play, either by people teasing me about it or questioning it because they find it suspicious. So even if he did know that Johnny was a conservative voter, and still wanted to call him out for not voting at that moment, why was his response to Johnny saying he was a conservative voter, "Cool, I'm not". The response just felt super posturey and not really the response you'd have to a scum read? IDK it just felt off. So then I was like is there some distancing going on here?
So that's where I'm at, nothing concrete, something feels off, don't know if it means anything for sure but stay tuned for my next episode where I decide what flavor syrup to put on my waffles. It'll be riveting.
This is a bit off: if I was reading this without the context of the first sentence ("oh gosh no"), I would 100% say that this is your case for why you DO find GJ, at the very least, scummish.
What's pulling you back?
How do you see a partnership here?
You said 'kids gloves' but I don't know what you mean by that. (I know what the term means, I just don't see how it translates here.)
I was more talking about his response about wisp in that interaction, wasn't to concerned with Sloth in that context. It felt authentic and the way GJ addressed it plus dropped a town lean on wisp feels just right.
It's that one post that comes off as off-putting to me, plus to need to ask the question about where he placed his vote is very sketchy
How do you see a partnership here?
You said 'kids gloves' but I don't know what you mean by that. (I know what the term means, I just don't see how it translates here.)
I agree with Tammy that their interaction felt weird; I think it would explain the weirdness if they're fighting each other without actually trying to get the other killed
Not trying to bring this up again, just making sure: You've played with KJ before right? I know we were in Rebels and Matters, but not sure how often you have.
Btw, with all this "KJ has never been scum" talk - does Rebel not count for anyone?
I don't even remember rebels, but sure Ill take your word for it that I was in. I have played him years before that. He is capable of all of these posts as a wolf as well. The one wolf game I remember of him (animals) he doesn't sound that much different than here. He doesn't change his style that much per game.
Weird ambivalence aside, Tammy's probably town - KJ too.
Based on grammar and tone alone, Wisp might be town.
I like Silver too, though not sure if that's based on actual play. I do like how he thinks.
The fact that Rhand has that pirate motif and has yet to tunnel me this game is kind of throwing me off - like, is that seriously tom in disguise?
Joking aside, I legitimately feel thrown and I wonder if it's the motif that's causing it.
Chad is Chad. Just gonna keep prodding and try not to lose my mind.
I give weight to Wisp finding him scummy (how serious are you, @Wisp?)
Crops hanging to that RVS-bs (hah!) and tacking it on me as if I'm the only one that brought it up or found his reaction unearned is not a good look. That could be slighted-townie response tho, so eh.
Cantrip just has that one post lol. It doesn't look any better with the passage of time, but I really want him to come back.
Bur's trending down, said why.
GJ's got my vote.
This is not as clear-cut as 'town >>> scum' but more of a nebulous stream of takes
Everyone else needs to post more so I can keep forming opinions that are likely wrong.
I often find "is X capable of making this/these post/s as a wolf" to be not just unhelpful but misleading
Generally, anyone is capable of making any particular post as any alignment, at least in a vacuum
The question, therefore, shouldn't be "could Killjoy make these posts as a wolf?" but rather "is Killjoy a wolf who is making these posts?"
A subtle but important distinction; I'm leaning towards "no" at the present moment
He was actually a serial killer that game, so incredibly misleading. I swore he was mafia, but that was Bur.
Also, lol at thinking of all the people I could push, I as a wolf would try to push someone being almost universally town read as a potential wolf read. Blah Blah WIFOM, I know.
Don't give weight to me finding him wolfy, I'm only semi-serious,and usually against testing him day 1, pressure is fine. I used to have this meta read where if he posts walls it's probably like he is a wolf, but it stopped holding a long time ago,though him voting this early is a bit strange, and I don't even really know why exactly he is voting Cantrip because Cantrip is not a polarized Mafia at all
Don't give weight to me finding him wolfy, I'm only semi-serious,and usually against testing him day 1, pressure is fine. I used to have this meta read where if he posts walls it's probably like he is a wolf, but it stopped holding a long time ago,though him voting this early is a bit strange, and I don't even really know why exactly he is voting Cantrip because Cantrip is not a polarized Mafia at all
Bur, you realize that when people like posts, it's basically saying the post reads townie?
I don't think I've ever used "liking" and "town-lean" as synonyms
I'm steadily trending down on Bur.
I've heard of people saying "like" about a player without it meaning that you think the player is townie, just that you like them, but never about a post - and it doesn't make sense in that context, if you don't think the post is townie what is there to like about it?
The numbers thing, as has been said, but there was more to that post that should have been a sticking point?
I can see this being a backtrack. I will follow it.
Sup Bur?
Of note, #231 seems like they're not reading the thread closely and looking for things to knee-jerk jump on (might explain the liking of CC's too).
I mean, I don't like any of Rhand's posts for being incomprehensible, but do I think he's scum for it? No.
And yes, I'm currently skimming the thread for not really having time for deeply reading stuff and for not wanting to drop behind the pulse of the thread.
And being on mobile only right now.
I'll probably reread things more throughly once I actually have time.
@KJ: I don't really believe in RVS votes behind alignment indicative, so picking a wagon of four RVS votes is basically the same as a t random group of 4 people to me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
I often find "is X capable of making this/these post/s as a wolf" to be not just unhelpful but misleading
Generally, anyone is capable of making any particular post as any alignment, at least in a vacuum
The question, therefore, shouldn't be "could Killjoy make these posts as a wolf?" but rather "is Killjoy a wolf who is making these posts?"
A subtle but important distinction; I'm leaning towards "no" at the present moment
He was actually a serial killer that game, so incredibly misleading. I swore he was mafia, but that was Bur.
Also, lol at thinking of all the people I could push, I as a wolf would try to push someone being almost universally town read as a potential wolf read. Blah Blah WIFOM, I know.
I have seen wolves push against the grain precisely so they could make this argument later, yes
Particularly near the beginning of a phase when wagons are far from settled and your vote matters less because you don't "need" to secure a mis-exile or use it to kill a partner for towncred or whatever
I'm not saying I'm locked into you being a wolf but like, do you really not see where I'm coming from at all here?
Also, lol at thinking of all the people I could push, I as a wolf would try to push someone being almost universally town read as a potential wolf read. Blah Blah WIFOM, I know.
Didn't you start pushing him before anyone townread him?
It was actually a point of contention that it was very early in the game.
I often find "is X capable of making this/these post/s as a wolf" to be not just unhelpful but misleading
Generally, anyone is capable of making any particular post as any alignment, at least in a vacuum
The question, therefore, shouldn't be "could Killjoy make these posts as a wolf?" but rather "is Killjoy a wolf who is making these posts?"
A subtle but important distinction; I'm leaning towards "no" at the present moment
He was actually a serial killer that game, so incredibly misleading. I swore he was mafia, but that was Bur.
Also, lol at thinking of all the people I could push, I as a wolf would try to push someone being almost universally town read as a potential wolf read. Blah Blah WIFOM, I know.
I have seen wolves push against the grain precisely so they could make this argument later, yes
Particularly near the beginning of a phase when wagons are far from settled and your vote matters less because you don't "need" to secure a mis-exile or use it to kill a partner for towncred or whatever
I'm not saying I'm locked into you being a wolf but like, do you really not see where I'm coming from at all here?
No, I really can't. You buy your own words are just rattling the bush. I prefer the phrase "throwing ***** at the wall until it sticks", myself.
Didn't you start pushing him before anyone townread him?
True I suppose. But then, when challenged, I doubled down.
There is a certain irony to claiming not to care about meta but appealing to meta as a defense, I think
Maybe you could quote the posts you think you never make to him if you're partners and I can tell you why I disagree
Or we could agree to status quo ante, I'll keep grilling Chad about why he felt like mentioning I exist but wasn't interested enough to ask me a question or comment on my posts and you can keep on eye on my "coasting" or whatever
Normally you vote people because:
1) you think/know the are scum and want them out of the game
2) want to pressure them
3) RVS
And I think it's bit too late for 3), and since Iso hasn't posted yet, I doubt it's 1) either (unless you have pre-game guilty check on him or something) and in same vain 2) doesn't seem logical.
So why?
I've never been opposed to early dogpiles. That seems slightly more useful to me than my Cantrip vote, in absence of another lead.
Vaimes voting me, is a town tell for me and me only. I've developed a connection with him and from that I gained the ability to tell when vaimes is town or scum.
Why is vaimes voting cantrip, I want him to only vote me #VaimesCheated
Vaimes #107, explain why KJ Wisp and Silver are in your circle?
You're the only yeet for me, baby, I swear.
KJ and Silver are ez reads imo, for kind of similar reasons. I have KJ higher than Siler. Ask me about Wisp later.
-
Extra town points to Tammy for pointing out Chad's BS read on Cantrip (citing multiple posts when he had a grand total of one). Tammy can you please wait for other people to accumulate town points before you go back for seconds.
Weird ambivalence aside, Tammy's probably town - KJ too.
Based on grammar and tone alone, Wisp might be town.
I like Silver too, though not sure if that's based on actual play. I do like how he thinks.
The fact that Rhand has that pirate motif and has yet to tunnel me this game is kind of throwing me off - like, is that seriously tom in disguise?
Joking aside, I legitimately feel thrown and I wonder if it's the motif that's causing it.
Chad is Chad. Just gonna keep prodding and try not to lose my mind.
I give weight to Wisp finding him scummy (how serious are you, @Wisp?)
Crops hanging to that RVS-bs (hah!) and tacking it on me as if I'm the only one that brought it up or found his reaction unearned is not a good look. That could be slighted-townie response tho, so eh.
Cantrip just has that one post lol. It doesn't look any better with the passage of time, but I really want him to come back.
Bur's trending down, said why.
GJ's got my vote.
This is not as clear-cut as 'town >>> scum' but more of a nebulous stream of takes
Everyone else needs to post more so I can keep forming opinions that are likely wrong.
I think Sloth might be scum for not giving any sort of read on Vaimes.
To Whom It May Concern: My mafia stats should be in my signature. I've been mafia a bunch, just not recently. I've also never been NKed N1 by Mafia (though, Silver I'm taking ALL OF THE OFFENCE, rude) so I don't expect to here either.
@CropCircles: So, Sloth makes the same point that I do, and he's shading you. Why am I not in that same boat?
Because you and I just disagree on the math. I didn't see you half-heartedly shading a large group of people the way Sloth did. And your responses come across as genuine to me. I still think you are wrong, but the whole exchange has led me to lean town on you.
We don't just disagree on the math, CC. We also disagree about the relevence of the four-pack that Silver proposed. And it doesn't make sense for you to still be doing, or at least you should have reconsidered your position here. If you think I'm town, then I really believe what I'm saying. But no, you're pushing your position still, in your discussions with Sloth, and using it against him as well. But not me, like I said, and not Silver, who was the first person who had this position.
So, if the position of [there are scum in Silver, Rhand, Bur, Crops] is scattershot and comes from a scum mindset, why are two of the people who hold it not scum in your eyes?
I mean, I'm not sure what you want from me here. There was nothing I wanted to persue, so I didn't. I can't think of a way I could have force the game forword from there. Ask questions? Been there, used to do that, nothing comes of that. So I didn't.
It's unreasonable to expect much more I think.
Do you think those two situations (confident wolf, lazy town) are the only two possible here?
The only 2? No I wouldn't be that dismissive. You could also just be annoyingly oblivious, or not understand that from my perspective (and I am going to try not to lose my temper with Tammy because that's the third time she has incorrectly framed my issue with you on page 2. Or Wisp assuming my issue with you is only questions). You do understand the difference between couldn't and weren't right? And from my perspective, you were veering into weren't. Now, as obvious as a needle that was from LW, I am not voting you for that because I don't think that alone makes you a wolf, but it is enough to pressure you.
Bur is posting fine again. He seems like he is trying to solve. I like his questioning to Vaimes.]/quote]Ok. I don't see your argument as particularly strong given that it was made within 100 posts of game start, but sure. The logic exists.
Or he's just annoyed it and it has nothing to do with trying to solve you.
I get annoyed in general when I have to play an extra mind game to translate with an RP. If you want to rhyme or role play, or take on some role, but I can still comprehend what you are saying, I don't care. I had to google "natters" and neither me nor Wisp understood what he was saying about him at the time.
That's what I thought. So 'frustration' is not a good reason to townread you, like I said.
I think Tammy is actually confused, and I don't think it's a tell.
@KJ: I don't really believe in RVS votes behind alignment indicative, so picking a wagon of four RVS votes is basically the same as a t random group of 4 people to me.
I think all wagons are important. But I guess that can make sense.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Normally you vote people because:
1) you think/know the are scum and want them out of the game
2) want to pressure them
3) RVS
And I think it's bit too late for 3), and since Iso hasn't posted yet, I doubt it's 1) either (unless you have pre-game guilty check on him or something) and in same vain 2) doesn't seem logical.
So why?
I've never been opposed to early dogpiles. That seems slightly more useful to me than my Cantrip vote, in absence of another lead.
Okay, but if you wanted your vote to be useful, why not move it to someone who has actually posted on this thread?
Like, making a wagon out of someone who has 0 posts in the game doesn't really seem worthwhile to me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
@Tammy: Have you formed an opinion on GJ yet? You were kinda going back and forth trying to clarify what he was thinking... did that do anything for you?
Oh gosh no. Where I'm at right now is that I feel like there's something rotten in the whispers of a deposed monarch, and I'm not sure if it's one, both, or neither at this moment. I don't like the argument that it was wolfy that you didn't find anything to move the game forward with by page two. Think that's a silly thing to push for that early in the game. (As an aside, scumGJ kind of defended Axelrod on a similar attack where someone though Axel hadn't been memorable by page three and he kind of scoffed at that. Not sure what to do with that in relation to this though, maybe nothing.) I didn't like the frustration at Rhand's rp because it didn't feel real. Oh and I didn't like the comment where he complained that he was doing more solving than anyone; though I could see this coming from either alignment.
That's really flimsy though and it could really add up to nothing quite frankly. It's just that something feels wrong? And it might more be the interaction between him and whisper? Whisper feels kinda posturey about things, like he's grandstanding. This is both in relation to you and to Johnny. I think whisper missed Silver's point that you're unlikely to self resolve by day three because there might be higher priority nk targets because he kinda sidestepped that point to grandstand about how he can leave you until day three and he doesn't want to hear about Johnny's question stuff regarding you. I got a similar feeling about his comment about Johnny's lack of vote. If Johnny is telling the truth about him being a conservative voter and Whisper has played with him several times then how does that go unnoticed? I might be projecting here, but I'm a conservative voter myself and it gets brought up nearly every game I play, either by people teasing me about it or questioning it because they find it suspicious. So even if he did know that Johnny was a conservative voter, and still wanted to call him out for not voting at that moment, why was his response to Johnny saying he was a conservative voter, "Cool, I'm not". The response just felt super posturey and not really the response you'd have to a scum read? IDK it just felt off. So then I was like is there some distancing going on here?
So that's where I'm at, nothing concrete, something feels off, don't know if it means anything for sure but stay tuned for my next episode where I decide what flavor syrup to put on my waffles. It'll be riveting.
This is a bit off: if I was reading this without the context of the first sentence ("oh gosh no"), I would 100% say that this is your case for why you DO find GJ, at the very least, scummish.
What's pulling you back?
The oh gosh no is more in relation to the last question. Him wondering if my interaction did anything to clarify things for me.
I'm not exactly sure what feels off or what you're asking at the end there. Yes, I find GJ scummy and I wonder if there's some distancing going on with Last Whisper, but I'm nowhere near confident about this. The things I don't like about GJ could also be coming from town. Although I can add to this that I also don't like that he likes Chad's wall; his reason for liking it is a bit superficial and at least my memory of GJ is that his scum hunting is a more deeper than that.
Reads for me are a mental process, and this is part of my process more than it is a case. This is a snapshot of where I am in the process of getting this read, and I don't know how much merit it has right now.
(I just woke up from a nap so I'm not sure if I'm processing your question right, but if I didn't answer it, ask me again or clarify?)
Dropping the gimmick for now because it keeps me from posting when I have little time to post and that’s not productive.
I also felt like GJ / Wisp was theatre. That’s why I first called them out. But I came back from that and thought it’s scum!Wisp interacting with town!GJ. That unvote from Wisp to vote Highroller for no reason though... yuck and might point to him being done with the distancing. I might have cleared GJ too quickly.
The interaction between Wisp and Chad also feels off.
baseline is that I am pretty much sold on Wisp and his interactions might point to Chad and GJ but those aren’t worth pushing until Wisp flips.
There is a certain irony to claiming not to care about meta but appealing to meta as a defense, I think
Maybe you could quote the posts you think you never make to him if you're partners and I can tell you why I disagree
Or we could agree to status quo ante, I'll keep grilling Chad about why he felt like mentioning I exist but wasn't interested enough to ask me a question or comment on my posts and you can keep on eye on my "coasting" or whatever
I think it's more using calling things odd for me when they are really nai.
That's what I thought. So 'frustration' is not a good reason to townread you, like I said.
I don't get frustrated as easily as a wolf, that's a fact. But obviously more WIFOM. Also, not sure why bring that up at all
k. I don't see your argument as particularly strong given that it was made within 100 posts of game start, but sure. The logic exists.
holy *****
It wasn't supposed to be strong. It was a point of intersection of something I pointed out that I didn't like. I didn't hate it enough to vote you for it, but apparently, I stepped in the twilight zone where calling a post wolfy, despite not voting it was strong enough point that half the game is confused by it, and Wisp and CC both feel the need to make a stupid ******* statement along the lines of leave you alone until day 3 (which is the stupidest ******* thingon so many levels. Not just on you, some people treat Iso/tom the same way way well. Let's no lynch for 2 days then and then interact with each other because every single player in the game should get read better.
I take it back, Chad wrote a wall, we can kill him at some point
Are you saying your brother is too stupid to not post a wall when he is a wolf, or was this just some magic nugget you kept from him and are now revealing it for a guaranteed wolf kill today?
Lol at Vaimes putting me in the pile with two 0 posters.
Wouldn't that require the mindset of "would Wisp/GJ make these posts as a wolf"?
"Would" versus "could" is pretty similar to the distinction I was making before, actually
"Could they be partners" is almost always trivially yes, "would they post those to each other as wolves" invites you to think about how often they are (or aren't) partners and what might make them post like that as various alignments, how the posts might be different, etc.
I think my "how often is that wolf theater" framing has a similar effect but your mileage may vary, I suppose
Dropping the gimmick for now because it keeps me from posting when I have little time to post and that’s not productive.
I also felt like GJ / Wisp was theatre. That’s why I first called them out. But I came back from that and thought it’s scum!Wisp interacting with town!GJ. That unvote from Wisp to vote Highroller for no reason though... yuck and might point to him being done with the distancing. I might have cleared GJ too quickly.
The interaction between Wisp and Chad also feels off.
baseline is that I am pretty much sold on Wisp and his interactions might point to Chad and GJ but those aren’t worth pushing until Wisp flips.
here I'll fix this, because I don't even know the chances of me hitting my win-con anyways
there is my soft, I am aligned with no one, have fun with that lol
I will pretty much be offing whoever the top train is somewhat regardless, while also trying to scum-hunt, but of course my win-con will always come first
The GJ way path to no lynching:
But also.
You're mistaking (?) me questioning you on steps I would question anyone on on grounds of bizarre reasoning as me questioning it specifically because it's you - which isn't what's happening.
Or, this is fake outrage brought on by nothing that I can see, which, yeah. Plausible.
Btw, with all this "KJ has never been scum" talk - does Rebel not count for anyone?
I've heard of people saying "like" about a player without it meaning that you think the player is townie, just that you like them, but never about a post - and it doesn't make sense in that context, if you don't think the post is townie what is there to like about it?
The numbers thing, as has been said, but there was more to that post that should have been a sticking point?
I can see this being a backtrack. I will follow it.
Sup Bur?
Of note, #231 seems like they're not reading the thread closely and looking for things to knee-jerk jump on (might explain the liking of CC's too).
Agreed on statistics, at least.
What's pulling you back?
You said 'kids gloves' but I don't know what you mean by that. (I know what the term means, I just don't see how it translates here.)
At this point, KJ's acting like I expect town!KJ to act, and he's up there with my townier reads in the game.
Talk to me about my ****-up
I agree with Tammy that their interaction felt weird; I think it would explain the weirdness if they're fighting each other without actually trying to get the other killed
I don't even remember rebels, but sure Ill take your word for it that I was in. I have played him years before that. He is capable of all of these posts as a wolf as well. The one wolf game I remember of him (animals) he doesn't sound that much different than here. He doesn't change his style that much per game.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Generally, anyone is capable of making any particular post as any alignment, at least in a vacuum
The question, therefore, shouldn't be "could Killjoy make these posts as a wolf?" but rather "is Killjoy a wolf who is making these posts?"
A subtle but important distinction; I'm leaning towards "no" at the present moment
Based on grammar and tone alone, Wisp might be town.
I like Silver too, though not sure if that's based on actual play. I do like how he thinks.
The fact that Rhand has that pirate motif and has yet to tunnel me this game is kind of throwing me off - like, is that seriously tom in disguise?
Joking aside, I legitimately feel thrown and I wonder if it's the motif that's causing it.
Chad is Chad. Just gonna keep prodding and try not to lose my mind.
I give weight to Wisp finding him scummy (how serious are you, @Wisp?)
Crops hanging to that RVS-bs (hah!) and tacking it on me as if I'm the only one that brought it up or found his reaction unearned is not a good look. That could be slighted-townie response tho, so eh.
Cantrip just has that one post lol. It doesn't look any better with the passage of time, but I really want him to come back.
Bur's trending down, said why.
GJ's got my vote.
This is not as clear-cut as 'town >>> scum' but more of a nebulous stream of takes
Everyone else needs to post more so I can keep forming opinions that are likely wrong.
He was actually a serial killer that game, so incredibly misleading. I swore he was mafia, but that was Bur.
Also, lol at thinking of all the people I could push, I as a wolf would try to push someone being almost universally town read as a potential wolf read. Blah Blah WIFOM, I know.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
EDWOP
I mean, I don't like any of Rhand's posts for being incomprehensible, but do I think he's scum for it? No.
And yes, I'm currently skimming the thread for not really having time for deeply reading stuff and for not wanting to drop behind the pulse of the thread.
And being on mobile only right now.
I'll probably reread things more throughly once I actually have time.
@KJ: I don't really believe in RVS votes behind alignment indicative, so picking a wagon of four RVS votes is basically the same as a t random group of 4 people to me.
Particularly near the beginning of a phase when wagons are far from settled and your vote matters less because you don't "need" to secure a mis-exile or use it to kill a partner for towncred or whatever
I'm not saying I'm locked into you being a wolf but like, do you really not see where I'm coming from at all here?
It was actually a point of contention that it was very early in the game.
No, I really can't. You buy your own words are just rattling the bush. I prefer the phrase "throwing ***** at the wall until it sticks", myself.
True I suppose. But then, when challenged, I doubled down.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I would think you've played with me enough to know I am never "die scum" even when I feel like I have a caught wolf.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Maybe you could quote the posts you think you never make to him if you're partners and I can tell you why I disagree
Or we could agree to status quo ante, I'll keep grilling Chad about why he felt like mentioning I exist but wasn't interested enough to ask me a question or comment on my posts and you can keep on eye on my "coasting" or whatever
You're the only yeet for me, baby, I swear.
KJ and Silver are ez reads imo, for kind of similar reasons. I have KJ higher than Siler. Ask me about Wisp later.
-
Extra town points to Tammy for pointing out Chad's BS read on Cantrip (citing multiple posts when he had a grand total of one). Tammy can you please wait for other people to accumulate town points before you go back for seconds.
Cantrip is probably not partnered with him.
GJ liking Chad is a real bummer.
Chirp.
Wisp read is controversial as usual but I'm still keeping him as a light townread for raisins.
Vaimes
Tammy KJ Silver
Sloth Cuth Bur wisp
[who cares]
one in GJ/Iso/Az? shrug
Cantrip
Chad
Changed my mind on the Chadtrip partner read, it could really go either way.
I'm sure you've talked about it but you could you tell me about your cantrip read
I have ~no opinion on him
Do you have a useful opinion on Bur?
Actually I'll just link it. It's in Google Drive. Looks like I have 12 Mafia games in total. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1myYxH53ulPIaTSeJRpoNb7HVzUE1-hE8lxdxpuM1eV0/edit#gid=1023896126
It MAY not be up to date? I don't see Token 4 on there. Maybe I just subconciously wanted it to end on 69, idk.
Also: I'm eating a persimmon. It's so good.
We don't just disagree on the math, CC. We also disagree about the relevence of the four-pack that Silver proposed. And it doesn't make sense for you to still be doing, or at least you should have reconsidered your position here. If you think I'm town, then I really believe what I'm saying. But no, you're pushing your position still, in your discussions with Sloth, and using it against him as well. But not me, like I said, and not Silver, who was the first person who had this position.
So, if the position of [there are scum in Silver, Rhand, Bur, Crops] is scattershot and comes from a scum mindset, why are two of the people who hold it not scum in your eyes?
I'm glad you said that, because I was just gonna sheep you on Chad being town because I trust your judgement, but I hated the note dump in 260.
That's what I thought. So 'frustration' is not a good reason to townread you, like I said.
I think Tammy is actually confused, and I don't think it's a tell.
I'm townleaning Wisp for this post here. Dont @ me.
I think all wagons are important. But I guess that can make sense.
Wouldn't that require the mindset of "would Wisp/GJ make these posts as a wolf"?
Okay, but if you wanted your vote to be useful, why not move it to someone who has actually posted on this thread?
Like, making a wagon out of someone who has 0 posts in the game doesn't really seem worthwhile to me.
I don't even have a not-useful opinion on Bur at the moment
The oh gosh no is more in relation to the last question. Him wondering if my interaction did anything to clarify things for me.
I'm not exactly sure what feels off or what you're asking at the end there. Yes, I find GJ scummy and I wonder if there's some distancing going on with Last Whisper, but I'm nowhere near confident about this. The things I don't like about GJ could also be coming from town. Although I can add to this that I also don't like that he likes Chad's wall; his reason for liking it is a bit superficial and at least my memory of GJ is that his scum hunting is a more deeper than that.
Reads for me are a mental process, and this is part of my process more than it is a case. This is a snapshot of where I am in the process of getting this read, and I don't know how much merit it has right now.
(I just woke up from a nap so I'm not sure if I'm processing your question right, but if I didn't answer it, ask me again or clarify?)
I also felt like GJ / Wisp was theatre. That’s why I first called them out. But I came back from that and thought it’s scum!Wisp interacting with town!GJ. That unvote from Wisp to vote Highroller for no reason though... yuck and might point to him being done with the distancing. I might have cleared GJ too quickly.
The interaction between Wisp and Chad also feels off.
baseline is that I am pretty much sold on Wisp and his interactions might point to Chad and GJ but those aren’t worth pushing until Wisp flips.
I think it's more using calling things odd for me when they are really nai.
I don't get frustrated as easily as a wolf, that's a fact. But obviously more WIFOM. Also, not sure why bring that up at all
holy *****
It wasn't supposed to be strong. It was a point of intersection of something I pointed out that I didn't like. I didn't hate it enough to vote you for it, but apparently, I stepped in the twilight zone where calling a post wolfy, despite not voting it was strong enough point that half the game is confused by it, and Wisp and CC both feel the need to make a stupid ******* statement along the lines of leave you alone until day 3 (which is the stupidest ******* thingon so many levels. Not just on you, some people treat Iso/tom the same way way well. Let's no lynch for 2 days then and then interact with each other because every single player in the game should get read better.
Are you saying your brother is too stupid to not post a wall when he is a wolf, or was this just some magic nugget you kept from him and are now revealing it for a guaranteed wolf kill today?
Lol at Vaimes putting me in the pile with two 0 posters.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
"Could they be partners" is almost always trivially yes, "would they post those to each other as wolves" invites you to think about how often they are (or aren't) partners and what might make them post like that as various alignments, how the posts might be different, etc.
I think my "how often is that wolf theater" framing has a similar effect but your mileage may vary, I suppose
there is my soft, I am aligned with no one, have fun with that lol