Gonna take a look at Jack/cayvie stuff to see if they change anything about my worldview right now.
--
Jack start off by voting Highroller and then buddying Vaimes.
Quote from Jackrito »
This is something I expect from Wisp in the eod1 not from you at the very start. I agree that low posters tend to be scum in most cases, but I did not think of you the type to scum hunt that way normally you towncore up and work backwards.
I agree with Vaimes points on him in regards to how he is treating Cross just feels so off to me. Rod's gimmick thing he has going on here is weird and a tad annoying, but I don't think he would be this gutsy as people call it if scum. Vaimes is my top town atm.
YOUR CALLING OF NAMES HAS ME MIFFED
AT LEAST I’M NOT POSTING ONLY GIFS
I’LL SEE YOU AT DAWN, I CHALLENGE YOUR NAME
what... no death battles? THATS LAME
IM UNSURE ON YOUR VOTE AND REASON
IS THIS A VOTE FROM SCUM THIS SEASON?
My reason is same as Vaimes if you scumread me for it push me by all means. Dont do light shade with no intent.
One of the few Jack/Rodemy interactions and.. ehhh. I can see where GF is coming from if I squint? Specifically I'm not sure if Jack says "don't do light shade with no intent" if he's actually Rodemy's buddy? Liiiike.. if I squint it feels like he's trying to goad a townie moreso than this being a manufactured distance from scum? It's such a softball/early game interaction so it's hard to read much into it, but that's my interpretation of it.
Jack then moves off on Highroller and then starts to bus CropCircles.
Quote from Jackrito »
If I was going to vote someone atm it would be CC because his posts and stance on ZDS and how it changed are just not making sense to me. His responses to ZDS after his weird as hell vote also match more with the over defensiveness that I was referring to eariler unlike Highroller who looks like he is really scum hunting in his responses. CC looks scared and lost and just doing simple replies like a deer in the headlights. ZDS comes out way ahead in their exchange and considering how much I push ZDS early most games that takes some doing.
Prop is also a concern to me for the reasons just given so want others thoughts on him.
I would also not hate a vote on JT his posts are adding nothing to this game, but this also means I have nothing really to scum read him on either.
I'm good with Grape his posts are helpful at least and showing his thoughts.
ZDS is in my town pile because of how much better he came off compared to CC if CC flips town I review him. possible they is bussing happening though because both are in bad spots now I think about it their engangement with each other just feels off to a degree.
Axel can be town because being proactive and I like his posts.
I like how Silver is sharing my paranoia in Prop and is pushing it still and has good engagnments in thread I think he would be in my top 3 town with Vaimes and Highroller.
Rod is still town to me, even for the dumb reason I don't think he plays this way as scum, but like always I just keep Rod to the side and see what happens since I have not seen him as scum yet and this feels like normal him.
Vaimes and Highroller are both town for me for reasons given.
So much for not deep diving till tomorrow.
*laughs in rule of three, at the bolded*
The read on Rodemy also seems like not really a buddy read. I feel like if Jack was Rodemy's buddy then he would have different words to say about him other than "I keep Rod to the side and see what happens... this feels like normal him" which feels a lot like to me how CC dismissed Vaimes and Highroller early on.
Okay so after this, Jack disappears. This is where all the replacements come in, with Amy/cayvie/WMU joining the fray.
Quote from cayvie »
like, i can believe that silver would see terry's post and get heebie jeebies from it. but i feel like that's the sort of read that usually only the person being TMI'ed is gonna be able to feel like that. i certainly don't, and i tend to be hypersensitive to TMI.
eh. not really much of anything to be gleaned from cayvie's posts I /feel/?
Compared to Amy's first few couple of posts where she zeroes in on CC immediately, unvotes (I feel like, if you're replacing in and decide to go for the full-on bus, you don't unvote at L-2? Because it's.. probably not a thought that enters your mind?) I was gonna bring up something wrt the time Amy replaced in but that's actually not allowed by the rules so I'm not going to do that.
I... just have a hard time seeing Amy immediately replace in and then immediately zero in on both of her buddies and decide to push them off a figurative cliff. Like, it /can/ happen (shoutout to our illustrious mod Rhand, who replaced in as scum in Winterfell and bussed his buddy off a cliff some 6-odd years ago) but I feel like... Amy would not want to rock the boat?
I guess after the strong stream of consciousness and opening posts Amy breaks her wrist and then doesn't contribute really for the rest of D1.
hm, then she says the CC situation is a trap and focuses on GF. Zeroes in on Silver being scum
Quote from cayvie »
thanks. the reason i ask is bc "there's no way in hell WMU was the optimal NK target through a pure SPK lens, and i doubt it makes a ton of sense as a PR hunt either" sounds, well, a bit like it's followed by Amy turning to the camera and winking to the audience. Also I'm getting a vibe that you're pocketing vaimes to go after me.
Quote from Amy »
this is the third consecutive game where someone has scumread me for a reason similar to this
i have been town in all of them
mafia is fun
also don't really thiiink this is a w/w interaction
specifically when cayvie says amy is "turning to the camera and winking to the audience" + "pocketing vaimes to go after me"
Then she speculates about Highroller wolf, coupled with a large number of complaining about Omnath.
I think there are a couple of interactions from Jack + cayvie that make me think Amy is not a wolf? Specifically thinking about the ones where Jack mentally pushes Rodemy to the side, and the cayvie "winking to the audience" interactions, specifically
Morning people. Hard game is hard. Jealous of those who only need to solve in 2 people. Going to try to post some notes today. I skimped on Amy because she was both very townie, but nothing I thought was major.
I know that Amy is a strong wolf (I think? I know /of/ Amy because we hung out a couple of years ago when I was still a reviewer at MU, but I don't recall playing any games with her), but the interactions that are carrying the most weight for me are /from/ CC and cayvie, not Amy herself.
Even the Jack interaction early on was from before Amy replaced in, and Jack basically dismissed Rodemy in a way that I don't think happens if they are buddies together.
Cayvie is also a good wolf? I don't know CC but I followed Rhand's Champs Qualifier where he wolfed with her and even here I wasn't really... into her being a wolf except that I had stronger town reads on the rest of the game
I doubt you'd find anything approaching "textbook partner interactions" in a wolf team of the composition I'm proposing
And also if Amy is a villager then you must be the wolf Proph roflmao
I was a pretty terrible wolf when we hung out regularly Proph. It's not really until the last 2 years or so that I've really leveled up my wolfgame.
I'm pretty busy through the weekend and am kind of hoping that Grapefruit's stuff on Proph is convincing enough that I feel comfortable just voting Silver and then cursing Grape's name if the F3 happens anyways.
Would also like to see HR's analysis, given that he's been rather vocal about his dislike for me since the beginning of the game.
Quote from Amy »
Also Proph's correct that "sub in and immediately dunk both partners into the toilet" isn't really in my playbook.
What is your playbook then as scum? How have you specifically leveled up in the past two years?
I've been kinda out of the mafia scene myself, just dip my toe in for a handful of games every year on various sites. A couple of years ago I realized dedicating large portions of my life to forum mafia is mostly a waste of time, but the community still rocks.
I think I said later on "Will vote in :55 assuming votes haven't changed" in 507, and then Axel voted in 512. That's why I didn't change my vote.
But if you were trying to avoid no lynch, why wouldn't you change your vote?
I was a dummy on Day 1 and didn't realize that the game was majority lunch; I thought it was plurality. So I didn't move my vote onto ZDS when Axel voted CC for fear of a tied No Lunch.
I think I said later on "Will vote in :55 assuming votes haven't changed" in 507, and then Axel voted in 512. That's why I didn't change my vote.
But if you were trying to avoid no lynch, why wouldn't you change your vote?
I was a dummy on Day 1 and didn't realize that the game was majority lunch; I thought it was plurality. So I didn't move my vote onto ZDS when Axel voted CC for fear of a tied No Lunch.
I can't recall any MTGS game that was straight plurality; we had a psuedo-plurality in the team game years ago but it didn't catch on
I know you've been cheating on us with other communities but I'm not sure I buy that you forgot MTGS is pretty much always maj only tbh
Actually that whole explanation makes no sense; in plurality the execution is usually randed if it's tied and if you thought it might cause no execution you could have checked the OP?
But like as either alignment you could've just said "I wanted to secure the execution" because it's maj
This is a very small thing because wolf!proph notoriously pushes his buddies compulsively but this would be a particularly funny example.
Yes it's a huge group but lumping both buddies in here would be very funny.
Just gonna call this the "Proph's Popping Bottles Theory" - just gonna take stock of the lowest posters after RVS and see how many of them are scum postgame.
This is probably simple probability but 1-2 wolves here i guess?
My eyes are glazing over the long back and forth with HR about RVS, Bird claims, and Poppin' Bottles. If I had to take a stance it doesn't feel as strongly town/town as the similar back and forth between ZDS and HR did.
I think I said later on "Will vote in :55 assuming votes haven't changed" in 507, and then Axel voted in 512. That's why I didn't change my vote.
But if you were trying to avoid no lynch, why wouldn't you change your vote?
I was a dummy on Day 1 and didn't realize that the game was majority lunch; I thought it was plurality. So I didn't move my vote onto ZDS when Axel voted CC for fear of a tied No Lunch.
So it was a tied no lynch. Even if I bought the explanation that you believed it was plurality lynch in the case of no majority, it still doesn't explain why you failed to change your vote.
I can squint at these two posts as being a little softball'y. Something for his buddies to work with and prove their townieness (they did not take advantage of those opportunities). The question to Jack feels like he's setting up suspicion but then he doesn't put Jack in his suspect pile but then he's in the "?" group and CC alone is in the "w?" pile. But then again progression will matter because the suspicion does seem based on the answer from Jack and not just calling him scum.
1) Expand more on why you think that Vaimes is town? I feel pretty comfortable with him myself but I want to hear exactly why you think he's town.
2) What do you think of *me* so far? I understand that my early game entrance has been pretty divisive/polarized, but you basically said "you normally play differently than this".
3) Do you have.... uhh, more substantive thoughts on the game at present? There's a fair amount of content coming in and I find it a little odd you just zero'd in on being a Vaimes stan?
Hey Silver, want to talk about this? Is this solely related to the fact that I told Highroller to vote me while having an RVS vote on Vaimes, or is there more?
The reason why I think you're overdefensive is because you're concentrating on ZDS to the exclusion of everything else.
There's a fair amount happening in this game right now and you're just ignoring all of it and focusing on OMGUSing ZDS.
And I think that ZDS's reasoning makes a lot of sense. Your first post was pretty non-committal and I see nothing from you that tells me why you think ZDS is malicious. If you are town and think ZDS is scum, tell me why his actions come from a dishonest mindset.
Proph's focus on CC feels good. Again I know his meta is to bus but this is more a drawing attention back, asking for opinions than Proph beating the drum trying to lead the charge himself. Which feels like a good look to me. See 145 and 196 for example.
195 doesn't feel like a w/w interaction with Jack to me. Proph's reaction to Jack's read on him is strange-ish but the read by Jack doesn't feel like it's a read on a buddy and their disagreement over Vaimes feels very natural.
Again Proph loves a bus but umm this doesn't feel like a w/w push.
Reading all this I keep having a kernel of paranoia because Proph does bus. It's his MO. But he also has correct and natural feeling reads on both flipped scum from D1. And their interactions with him look strongly like scum trying to kill a townie more than anything else. If this is a bus it's a regfan in JPA2 level bus.
Gah reading Proph's EoD and now I have to go back and see if his town read (not wanting to vote there) is consistent with his behavior. Because if it isn't it's a massive red flag. If he had a consistent town read there it's a great look for Proph.
So my thoughts at this stage are that I'm leaning town. Yes he is a busser, but I believe him here and his D1 is great and CC and Jack seemed to truly want to bury him.
A hard bus is just good tactics here, CC and Cayvie were both sinking from D1
I uh, also hard disagree that Proph had a "good Day 1" and weren't you saying you thought he was individually wolfy you just thought he had good interactions?
I just feel like the game is getting phoned in rn is all
A hard bus is just good tactics here, CC and Cayvie were both sinking from D1
I uh, also hard disagree that Proph had a "good Day 1" and weren't you saying you thought he was individually wolfy you just thought he had good interactions?
I just feel like the game is getting phoned in rn is all
I had been reading him for his thread position more than his own play. I also had faint suspicions because he hadn't built a town bloc the way town!Proph tends to, but rereading D1 he was making serious efforts towards doing so and his own pushes on CC and Jack were better than I remember. Like yes he's vaguely in his scum meta but that alone isn't a scum indicator. Just means I can't clear him as town based on activity.
As for the bussing angle yes there needs to have been bussing involved. That is very clear. But Proph's feels the least likely to me. CC and Jack were sinking on D1 (CC much more than Jack though) and Proph was leading the charge on Jack (with Vaimes) and early on the train for CC. I'm still reading but I have a very hard time seeing scum Proph here (and he's the one I want to be most confident on given HR's long stated suspicion).
If you know Proph's mafia game is to bus people, I have no idea why you're not considering Proph being mafia.
I can't reread the thread without thinking, "How is a guy who is this freaking milquetoast so accurate?" He comes off as knowing way too damn much, and it's incongruous with his personality. I have difficulty reconciling a town capable of deducing all of this stuff on his own with having THIS much timidity and engaging in as much bandwagoning as Prophylaxis.
Seriously, really look at this posts. Specifically look at what he DOES. Cut out all of the posts in which he asks nothing but questions, look at his very few actions. What have they been?
Well, Day one it was:
1. Affirming ZDS is town, when he had really no reason to do so.
2. Going after CropCircles
3. Shading JoeTerry, then going after JoeTerry after CropCircles claimed
4. Shading Jackrito - really the only person he really shaded for multiple posts
I consider Day One to be the main day to analyze, given that CC outed himself Day 2, and Jackrito/cayvie was really obvious and the writing was on the wall (sorry Sir Chris).
Posts of interest:
#38: Popping Bottles Theory - notice how this thing actually does catch 2 mafia.
#126: Votes CC
@Axelrod/ZDS/Highroller I guess: This is probably useless to ask, but do you guys know how CropCircles played back in the day? He was way before my time and I know that he was the originator of many MTGS memes (I think like Daykill loran16 or someething was attributed to him IIRC, but I can't remember).
Kind of side-eyeing this post? Like if you're not a fan of me, why not actually vote me and interrogate me rather than like soft-accuse me like you did here?
His post feels overdefensive and I don't really see a reason why he thinks ZDS is scum in his counter-post.
Unvote
Vote CropCircles
I don’t buy the justifications for this vote at all, frankly. I did the exact same things he accused CC of, and he never voted me.
The reason why I think you're overdefensive is because you're concentrating on ZDS to the exclusion of everything else.
There's a fair amount happening in this game right now and you're just ignoring all of it and focusing on OMGUSing ZDS.
And I think that ZDS's reasoning makes a lot of sense. Your first post was pretty non-committal and I see nothing from you that tells me why you think ZDS is malicious. If you are town and think ZDS is scum, tell me why his actions come from a dishonest mindset.
Quote from CropCircles »
Not really.
I tunneled on ZDS, he never voted me.
Not to mention the ZDS-Stan-ing really feels like he’s a person who already knew ZDS was town, and wanted to hide behind him.
ZDS is in my town pile because of how much better he came off compared to CC if CC flips town I review him. possible they is bussing happening though because both are in bad spots now I think about it their engangement with each other just feels off to a degree.
I'm not very familiar with scum ZDS, but is he the type of player to instigate a wagon on his buddy? He literally plucked CropCircles from obscurity and voted him as soon as CC made his first post - I /feel/ like that isn't the type of thing scum would normally do? What exactly do you think is off from their engagement?
This screams out to me. He’s not familiar with mafia ZDS, but yet he COMPLETELY trusts ZDS from the beginning, stans him, and acts like bussing just isn’t a thing.
kinda fine with cc/jack wagons, really not sure why people are voting zds and i think there's a decent chance there's scum on that wagon (cc/rod/maaaybe silver?)
hottake is that if cc is scum, jt is bussing him
feels kinda weird that the two players that i'd like to interrogate most (jack/cc) have mostly been silent for the past 2-3 days or so
kinda side-eyeing rodemy for bringing up the same point from rvs continuously as a reason to pressure zds, and i'm not sure exactly why silver is voting ZDS (other than to consolidate wagons?) given that silver hasn't really engaged with ZDS past rvs
I see relatively low downside to give a night for CC to confirm his friendly neighbor role? I'm still pretty uncomfortable with his behavior but if he gets the FN off then being able to clear him is pretty deec
Also kinda explains why he was acting kinda weird for most of the day
@HR we're just taking completely opposite things from these posts. I had ZDS as hard town D1 too, primarily for the back and forth with you. So I see that as a positive. Same with pushing CC, especially since he did it in a way where he kept prodding people to take a look at CC. He wasn't leading a crusade beating his drum, he was doing his town bloc thing of asking people to investigate CC and gently pressuring her. Which I think is much more in his town meta than his bussing is. The Terry thing is a reasonably bad look. I'll agree there but voting after the claim is fine. That claim should have moved votes but you raise a good point that his vote should have flowed to Jack/Cayvie based on his reads.
And I don't have a problem with shading Jack outside the lack of a vote at the CC unvote. Again it's a slow build of pointed questions leading to full blown suspicion. Scum!Proph busses but historically has done it with glaring TMI where you can't find a progression if you go back and look for it. It's quite possible he's improved but beyond his meta being "bussing" there isn't a direct match here for his play.
As for the foreshadowing the RB play CC went out of their way to claim not roleblocked. And like if that's the plan why tip your hand in that way? I guess it could be just spew but with that claim a RB is immediately the first thing a townie would think of. It's why Vaimes and I came out of the gate so focused on the RB specifics and clarifying with the mods about the mechanics. It was front of mind after a friendly neighbor claim.
What do you think about the idea of CC and silver both being mafia, CC saying he targeted silver, and silver throwing CC under the bus?
Unlikely but plausible. CC was going down one way or another that day (I mean a buddy could cover for CC but that is so incredibly risky) so going for the distancing hail mary seems not impossible but not likely.
I'm trying to sort through the likihoods and I have Amy as towniest by behavior, Proph as towniest by spew, and Silver being at the center of what would be an incredibly weird play. I am choosing to trust my spew and behavior reads more than I trust figuring out what scum was thinking in that particular case.
I've unfortunately used it a few different ways. To clarify in general I've been using it to mean looks town because of flipped scums pushes/reads. And I think that CC and Jack in particular handled Proph like he was town.
I have a thought on Proph re: pivoting to Terry over Jack but I'd like him to address how Terry jumped up his concern list compared to Jack/cayvie first.
I can't recall any MTGS game that was straight plurality; we had a psuedo-plurality in the team game years ago but it didn't catch on
I know you've been cheating on us with other communities but I'm not sure I buy that you forgot MTGS is pretty much always maj only tbh
Quote from Silver »
Actually that whole explanation makes no sense; in plurality the execution is usually randed if it's tied and if you thought it might cause no execution you could have checked the OP?
But like as either alignment you could've just said "I wanted to secure the execution" because it's maj
Hum
I thought that the game was plurality lunch and that tied votes resulted in No Lunch for the majority of Day 1. Don't know what else I can tell you.
So it was a tied no lynch. Even if I bought the explanation that you believed it was plurality lynch in the case of no majority, it still doesn't explain why you failed to change your vote.
Think you're wrong here - the vote count at the time was this (maybe I made a mistake; unsure because a votal wasn't posted around that EoD. In that case feel free to laugh at me)
well turns out im gonna be busy for the next hour or 2 so vote: cropcircles
I believed that a tied vote would result in a No Lunch, and I didn't want to risk that - hence why I didn't vote ZDS at the last moment before the deadline hit.
Highroller, WRT your big post on me - I don't really want to do a huge wallpost breaking down why you're wrong, but most of your points are poor and/or inaccurate.
Quote from HR »
I can't reread the thread without thinking, "How is a guy who is this freaking milquetoast so accurate?" He comes off as knowing way too damn much, and it's incongruous with his personality. I have difficulty reconciling a town capable of deducing all of this stuff on his own with having THIS much timidity and engaging in as much bandwagoning as Prophylaxis.
1) You might see me as being milquetoast (that's the second time someone has called me that this game, lol) but I have 200+ games of mafia played and been playing fairly consistently since 2011. There was a period in my life where I was obsessed with mafia and let it consume most of my waking hours. I remember being in 5/6 games at once in certain points in my life. Thankfully, I've gotten past those days, but I am experienced and been mostly playing/trying to solve this game in my own way, which you may confuse with timidity. I am just polite and don't really like to ruffle feathers with anyone.
Quote from HR »
I don’t buy the justifications for this vote at all, frankly. I did the exact same things he accused CC of, and he never voted me.
2) You voted me after I called you out on it. CC shaded me and didn't. In addition, he went full OMGUS over ZDS's post and he was very overdefensive, which you were not. I think saying you were "doing the exact same things as CC" is just false.
Not to mention the ZDS-Stan-ing really feels like he’s a person who already knew ZDS was town, and wanted to hide behind him...
This screams out to me. He’s not familiar with mafia ZDS, but yet he COMPLETELY trusts ZDS from the beginning, stans him, and acts like bussing just isn’t a thing.
4) I thought ZDS was playing proactively, which was very different from most players ITT at that point, and I liked his points on CC. Plus, he was my old mafia coach and he literally taught me how to play the game competently in... 2013, seven years ago. That's part of the reason why I said I "stanned" him.
Quote from HR »
Guess what CC tries to pull on day 2?
5) Grape already explained this below, but CC didn't even claim roleblocked and he didn't target anyone who died. Again, this is literally untrue.
I guess this was sort of a wallpost, oops. I wanted to include context for the parts I was responding to.
GF - wrt jack/cayvie, I didn't have enough info on that slot because Jack literally replaced out before answering my questions, and cayvie looked like they were trying to catch up with the game. That's why I was asking cayvie so many questions towards the tail end of D1 about where they were at.
Meanwhile I thought I caught Terry in some mindset slip and his catchup was ringing alarm bells for me.
Willing to wait for Amy to answer HR's question, and GF to finish his ISO of me, but I'm still of the opinion that lunching Silver just ends the game in a clean sweep after D1
Willing to wait for Amy to answer HR's question, and GF to finish his ISO of me, but I'm still of the opinion that lunching Silver just ends the game in a clean sweep after D1
My ISO is done. Just need to double check your answer but I'm currently at it just being Silver.
--
Jack start off by voting Highroller and then buddying Vaimes.
Shades me a little bit here.
One of the few Jack/Rodemy interactions and.. ehhh. I can see where GF is coming from if I squint? Specifically I'm not sure if Jack says "don't do light shade with no intent" if he's actually Rodemy's buddy? Liiiike.. if I squint it feels like he's trying to goad a townie moreso than this being a manufactured distance from scum? It's such a softball/early game interaction so it's hard to read much into it, but that's my interpretation of it.
Jack then moves off on Highroller and then starts to bus CropCircles.
*laughs in rule of three, at the bolded*
The read on Rodemy also seems like not really a buddy read. I feel like if Jack was Rodemy's buddy then he would have different words to say about him other than "I keep Rod to the side and see what happens... this feels like normal him" which feels a lot like to me how CC dismissed Vaimes and Highroller early on.
Okay so after this, Jack disappears. This is where all the replacements come in, with Amy/cayvie/WMU joining the fray.
eh. not really much of anything to be gleaned from cayvie's posts I /feel/?
Compared to Amy's first few couple of posts where she zeroes in on CC immediately, unvotes (I feel like, if you're replacing in and decide to go for the full-on bus, you don't unvote at L-2? Because it's.. probably not a thought that enters your mind?) I was gonna bring up something wrt the time Amy replaced in but that's actually not allowed by the rules so I'm not going to do that.
I... just have a hard time seeing Amy immediately replace in and then immediately zero in on both of her buddies and decide to push them off a figurative cliff. Like, it /can/ happen (shoutout to our illustrious mod Rhand, who replaced in as scum in Winterfell and bussed his buddy off a cliff some 6-odd years ago) but I feel like... Amy would not want to rock the boat?
I guess after the strong stream of consciousness and opening posts Amy breaks her wrist and then doesn't contribute really for the rest of D1.
hm, then she says the CC situation is a trap and focuses on GF. Zeroes in on Silver being scum
also don't really thiiink this is a w/w interaction
specifically when cayvie says amy is "turning to the camera and winking to the audience" + "pocketing vaimes to go after me"
Then she speculates about Highroller wolf, coupled with a large number of complaining about Omnath.
I think there are a couple of interactions from Jack + cayvie that make me think Amy is not a wolf? Specifically thinking about the ones where Jack mentally pushes Rodemy to the side, and the cayvie "winking to the audience" interactions, specifically
thoughts?
Hey if ya'll can't get there on me that's on me I guess
Amy's a good wolf don't sleep on those "clearing" interactions in f3
(Also, lol that "raisins" is something specific)
Even the Jack interaction early on was from before Amy replaced in, and Jack basically dismissed Rodemy in a way that I don't think happens if they are buddies together.
----
Also waiting for Grape/Amy/Highroller here.
Cayvie is also a good wolf? I don't know CC but I followed Rhand's Champs Qualifier where he wolfed with her and even here I wasn't really... into her being a wolf except that I had stronger town reads on the rest of the game
I doubt you'd find anything approaching "textbook partner interactions" in a wolf team of the composition I'm proposing
And also if Amy is a villager then you must be the wolf Proph roflmao
I'm pretty busy through the weekend and am kind of hoping that Grapefruit's stuff on Proph is convincing enough that I feel comfortable just voting Silver and then cursing Grape's name if the F3 happens anyways.
You're townier than Proph, I just think you're the wolf lol
What is your playbook then as scum? How have you specifically leveled up in the past two years?
I've been kinda out of the mafia scene myself, just dip my toe in for a handful of games every year on various sites. A couple of years ago I realized dedicating large portions of my life to forum mafia is mostly a waste of time, but the community still rocks.
Rhand, this was never the way to make friends and you know it.
If you can't tell, this is me stalling for time. Busy day, will have to post tomorrow.
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/26127-Voxx-s-Invitational-9er
This is the wolf game of Amy's I spectated this year and how I know she's getting cleared too easy
Proph?
So why didn't you?
Silver:
Why didn't you comment on the votes on CropCircles?
I didn't have an opinion on CropCircles at the time
Feel free to link a recent but more typical wolf game if you'd like
take 2
https://forums.darklordpotter.net/threads/joat-2-15er-a-mafia-game.39492/
I was a dummy on Day 1 and didn't realize that the game was majority lunch; I thought it was plurality. So I didn't move my vote onto ZDS when Axel voted CC for fear of a tied No Lunch.
Please keep this game moving at least a bit?
I can't recall any MTGS game that was straight plurality; we had a psuedo-plurality in the team game years ago but it didn't catch on
I know you've been cheating on us with other communities but I'm not sure I buy that you forgot MTGS is pretty much always maj only tbh
But like as either alignment you could've just said "I wanted to secure the execution" because it's maj
Hum
This is a very small thing because wolf!proph notoriously pushes his buddies compulsively but this would be a particularly funny example.
Yes it's a huge group but lumping both buddies in here would be very funny.
My eyes are glazing over the long back and forth with HR about RVS, Bird claims, and Poppin' Bottles. If I had to take a stance it doesn't feel as strongly town/town as the similar back and forth between ZDS and HR did.
CropCircles42 (4): ZeDorkSlipeur, Ampharos, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, Axelrod
ZeDorkSlipeur (4): Highroller, Silvercrys3467, CropCircles42, xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx
Vaimes (1): cayvie
Cayvie (1): Grapefruit21
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (2): Vaimes, Prophylaxis
So it was a tied no lynch. Even if I bought the explanation that you believed it was plurality lynch in the case of no majority, it still doesn't explain why you failed to change your vote.
———————
Ampharos, question for you:
Here is the vote count going into post 553:
Here is post 553:
Here is the vote count going into your next post, post 568:
This is post 568:
Why vote ZDS instead of Joe Terry, whom you had previously voted to avoid no lynch, when they had the same amount of votes on them?
195 doesn't feel like a w/w interaction with Jack to me. Proph's reaction to Jack's read on him is strange-ish but the read by Jack doesn't feel like it's a read on a buddy and their disagreement over Vaimes feels very natural.
Again Proph loves a bus but umm this doesn't feel like a w/w push.
Reading all this I keep having a kernel of paranoia because Proph does bus. It's his MO. But he also has correct and natural feeling reads on both flipped scum from D1. And their interactions with him look strongly like scum trying to kill a townie more than anything else. If this is a bus it's a regfan in JPA2 level bus.
Gah reading Proph's EoD and now I have to go back and see if his town read (not wanting to vote there) is consistent with his behavior. Because if it isn't it's a massive red flag. If he had a consistent town read there it's a great look for Proph.
So my thoughts at this stage are that I'm leaning town. Yes he is a busser, but I believe him here and his D1 is great and CC and Jack seemed to truly want to bury him.
These "I dunno if he/she bussed" things are funny because one of them 100% did
I uh, also hard disagree that Proph had a "good Day 1" and weren't you saying you thought he was individually wolfy you just thought he had good interactions?
I just feel like the game is getting phoned in rn is all
I had been reading him for his thread position more than his own play. I also had faint suspicions because he hadn't built a town bloc the way town!Proph tends to, but rereading D1 he was making serious efforts towards doing so and his own pushes on CC and Jack were better than I remember. Like yes he's vaguely in his scum meta but that alone isn't a scum indicator. Just means I can't clear him as town based on activity.
As for the bussing angle yes there needs to have been bussing involved. That is very clear. But Proph's feels the least likely to me. CC and Jack were sinking on D1 (CC much more than Jack though) and Proph was leading the charge on Jack (with Vaimes) and early on the train for CC. I'm still reading but I have a very hard time seeing scum Proph here (and he's the one I want to be most confident on given HR's long stated suspicion).
If you know Proph's mafia game is to bus people, I have no idea why you're not considering Proph being mafia.
I can't reread the thread without thinking, "How is a guy who is this freaking milquetoast so accurate?" He comes off as knowing way too damn much, and it's incongruous with his personality. I have difficulty reconciling a town capable of deducing all of this stuff on his own with having THIS much timidity and engaging in as much bandwagoning as Prophylaxis.
Seriously, really look at this posts. Specifically look at what he DOES. Cut out all of the posts in which he asks nothing but questions, look at his very few actions. What have they been?
Well, Day one it was:
1. Affirming ZDS is town, when he had really no reason to do so.
2. Going after CropCircles
3. Shading JoeTerry, then going after JoeTerry after CropCircles claimed
4. Shading Jackrito - really the only person he really shaded for multiple posts
I consider Day One to be the main day to analyze, given that CC outed himself Day 2, and Jackrito/cayvie was really obvious and the writing was on the wall (sorry Sir Chris).
Posts of interest:
#38: Popping Bottles Theory - notice how this thing actually does catch 2 mafia.
#126: Votes CC
I don’t buy the justifications for this vote at all, frankly. I did the exact same things he accused CC of, and he never voted me.
#131: Posts this:
He manages to get everything right here too.
134:
I tunneled on ZDS, he never voted me.
Not to mention the ZDS-Stan-ing really feels like he’s a person who already knew ZDS was town, and wanted to hide behind him.
This screams out to me. He’s not familiar with mafia ZDS, but yet he COMPLETELY trusts ZDS from the beginning, stans him, and acts like bussing just isn’t a thing.
Shades Jackrito multiple times.
He actually gestures toward going after JT before posting this:
So CC falseclaims, he then moves votes:
He then immediately afterward posts this:
Guess what CC tries to pull on day 2?
Yeah, I don't buy it.
And I don't have a problem with shading Jack outside the lack of a vote at the CC unvote. Again it's a slow build of pointed questions leading to full blown suspicion. Scum!Proph busses but historically has done it with glaring TMI where you can't find a progression if you go back and look for it. It's quite possible he's improved but beyond his meta being "bussing" there isn't a direct match here for his play.
Unlikely but plausible. CC was going down one way or another that day (I mean a buddy could cover for CC but that is so incredibly risky) so going for the distancing hail mary seems not impossible but not likely.
I'm trying to sort through the likihoods and I have Amy as towniest by behavior, Proph as towniest by spew, and Silver being at the center of what would be an incredibly weird play. I am choosing to trust my spew and behavior reads more than I trust figuring out what scum was thinking in that particular case.
I've unfortunately used it a few different ways. To clarify in general I've been using it to mean looks town because of flipped scums pushes/reads. And I think that CC and Jack in particular handled Proph like he was town.
I have a thought on Proph re: pivoting to Terry over Jack but I'd like him to address how Terry jumped up his concern list compared to Jack/cayvie first.
CropCircles42 (5): ZeDorkSlipeur, Ampharos, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, Cayvie, Axelrod
ZeDorkSlipeur (4): Highroller, Silvercrys3467, CropCircles42, WMU
JT (1): Prophylaxis
Cayvie (1): Grapefruit21
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (1): Vaimes
You missed cayvie's bus vote on CC here:
I believed that a tied vote would result in a No Lunch, and I didn't want to risk that - hence why I didn't vote ZDS at the last moment before the deadline hit.
1) You might see me as being milquetoast (that's the second time someone has called me that this game, lol) but I have 200+ games of mafia played and been playing fairly consistently since 2011. There was a period in my life where I was obsessed with mafia and let it consume most of my waking hours. I remember being in 5/6 games at once in certain points in my life. Thankfully, I've gotten past those days, but I am experienced and been mostly playing/trying to solve this game in my own way, which you may confuse with timidity. I am just polite and don't really like to ruffle feathers with anyone.
2) You voted me after I called you out on it. CC shaded me and didn't. In addition, he went full OMGUS over ZDS's post and he was very overdefensive, which you were not. I think saying you were "doing the exact same things as CC" is just false.
3) ZDS literally voted you right here, bro. He changed his read quickly but he did vote you.
4) I thought ZDS was playing proactively, which was very different from most players ITT at that point, and I liked his points on CC. Plus, he was my old mafia coach and he literally taught me how to play the game competently in... 2013, seven years ago. That's part of the reason why I said I "stanned" him.
5) Grape already explained this below, but CC didn't even claim roleblocked and he didn't target anyone who died. Again, this is literally untrue.
I guess this was sort of a wallpost, oops. I wanted to include context for the parts I was responding to.
Meanwhile I thought I caught Terry in some mindset slip and his catchup was ringing alarm bells for me.
My ISO is done. Just need to double check your answer but I'm currently at it just being Silver.
I keep having to check in and find relevant things to say while everyone just dances around the fact that they're going to shrug and execute me anyway
Just do it already for chrissake and stop wasting time