I find it useful for myself because it lets me know what players I have to spend time interrogating/figuring out
Why is it a "scum tactic" to explicitly mention your null reads?
I said it why, is like you show you are thinking at all the playerslist, instead just at the ones you have a read for. It's kind of Lamist (look at me i'm so townie).
My own impression, no matter how slim may look, is backing up DKs read and i find this interesting. I started also by not having a real understanding for why he voted ZDS but i ended by voting ZDS. That means I came to the same conclusion with the only townie in the game who i can 100% trust.
Wow. This is cute. Cc makes a very weak claim and now I’m being run up after the deadline? I’m mobile only today have a self resolving roll and the ability to keep axel honest besides that. Is there a case on me? Didn’t think so. I could go into how many holes there in that claim or at the very least it’s ability to resolve in a believable manner, if I wasn’t mobile and had time but as most of you know am vla on weekends.
If I am lynched or die tonight (I have a higher chance than most) look back at the CC lynch save that just happened
Wow. This is cute. Cc makes a very weak claim and now I’m being run up after the deadline? I’m mobile only today have a self resolving roll and the ability to keep axel honest besides that.
I mean, you can’t think that posting vague things like this is useful, can you! You say this like it’s obvious you should not be lynched as though everyone should know what you’re talking about.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I’m literally hiding in the bathroom from my family to post this right now. There is no case on me. According to CC I’m second on his non-existent list. I’m just in the bottom tier of Silvers list for what? Come on man! I have no idea why ZDS has chosen to tunnel on me. And Vaimes? I have seriously never seen Vaimes play this bad.
Here’s the problem with CC’s claim. If it’s real and he’s town, think about the scenarios tomorrow that could happen. He’s roleblocked, his target is killed, his target is lying scum or he targets someone and they say “yeah he’s town” and people don’t believe or are made to distrust the target. Even if he targets the most town of townies (me duh) and they say yeah my dm said he’s town we go into a whole other set of circumstances, where that person needs to die to confirm that this wasn’t a scum ploy. I just don’t think this is a claim that will resolve itself as easily as some of you (suspiciously) think it will.
I’m running out of time to even get into how many ways scum CC can manipulate this claim but they all tie pretty closely to the town CC scenarios I listed above. I just don’t see this as a claim to change anyone’s mind on the lynch that was minutes away from happening.
Wow. This is cute. Cc makes a very weak claim and now I’m being run up after the deadline? I’m mobile only today have a self resolving roll and the ability to keep axel honest besides that.
I mean, you can’t think that posting vague things like this is useful, can you! You say this like it’s obvious you should not be lynched as though everyone should know what you’re talking about.
Can you tell me why people are voting me? I just covered it but maybe I missed something
I cannot. I have not been following that at all. I imagine people feel you’ve been unimpressive so far.
I could figure it out, but, you know, as you are the one on the other side of it, seems like that ought to be more your job.
I am on a phone atm with no ability to iso people or read back effectively.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Highroller: I know you've been pushing it for awhile. Can you summarize (in nice short and easy to read bullet points) why ZDS?
I'm going to be honest, I have a hard time believing this is being asked in good faith, given that you were at the spot of "fourth best lynch choice" prior to these past few hours due to your large percentage of posts not really saying anything, and this stunt of ensuring no lynch could be made based on the previous deadline clinches your spot at three, and you've been trying to figure out why I'm voting for ZDS for most of the day when I made this post explaining the situation in bullet points:
When people won't vote for ZDS despite the every single post he's made being either:
1. Completely wrong
2. Repeating something someone else has said
3. Refusing to address criticism against a post or posts that are either wrong or something someone else has said
I will add being obviously lynchhungry against CropCircles.
Initial thoughts: I think nothing of the supposed claims and posting restrictions, or whatever is going on there. I don't think anything can be gleaned from that. I think the early pile on ZDS was a bit unwarranted, and subsequently a bit sus. I'm also not a fan of of Prophylaxis calling attention to low posters so early. Seems like planting seeds early to justify votes later.
That's all I got for now.
These are vague and safe non-stances ("the early pile on ZDS was a bit unwarranted", "not a fan of Prophylaxis calling attention to low posters so early"), which he turns into potential votes later on ("subsequently a bit sus", "planting seeds early to justify votes later").
And no the irony of accusing him of doing what he's accusing Proph of doing is not lost on me. But there's my second issue with this post: whereas Proph is experimenting by looking for lurkers too early and is ******* up as a result, CC hides carefully in a dark corner and seems to mostly focus on not ******* up. To bring back the digestive track, Proph had guts, CC has none.
It may only be a single post but it's far more worth pursuing than any of the current wagons IMO.
CropCircles makes a first post with some cursory analysis, and ZDS jumps on him because CC's stances aren't strong enough. In a first post describing one's initial thoughts. Seriously. It was the guy's first post.
And ZDS has never let up. This was on page 2. Look at how ridiculous that vote is. Imagine believing that complete lack of evidence holds sufficient weight to maintain a vote on CC for the rest of the day.
The thing is, all of the early CC votes are terrible.
Initial thoughts: I think nothing of the supposed claims and posting restrictions, or whatever is going on there. I don't think anything can be gleaned from that. I think the early pile on ZDS was a bit unwarranted, and subsequently a bit sus. I'm also not a fan of of Prophylaxis calling attention to low posters so early. Seems like planting seeds early to justify votes later.
That's all I got for now.
@Axelrod/ZDS/Highroller I guess: This is probably useless to ask, but do you guys know how CropCircles played back in the day? He was way before my time and I know that he was the originator of many MTGS memes (I think like Daykill loran16 or someething was attributed to him IIRC, but I can't remember).
Kind of side-eyeing this post? Like if you're not a fan of me, why not actually vote me and interrogate me rather than like soft-accuse me like you did here?
His post feels overdefensive and I don't really see a reason why he thinks ZDS is scum in his counter-post.
Unvote
Vote CropCircles
He already said why, Prophylaxis. It's an initial thoughts post. Calm the hell down.
And voting ZDS after his pouncing on CropCircles makes perfect sense. I would have voted for him. His reasons for voting were terrible.
Add this to yet another reason why Prophylaxis running around ZDS Stan-ing makes no sense.
Then Jackrito is just blatant bandwagoning, just like every other thing Jackrito did:
I have the most reasons to vote here all 3 of the top wagons are good atm though based off current content. DK and JT are too low content to be valid trains just yet imo.
vote : CropCircles42
There you go. Aren't you just inspired?
These are just objectively terrible votes. Anyone who doesn't have any suspicion of the CC bandwagon needs to focus up.
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Also, I wanted to highlight this post just to showcase how freaking easy it is to turn ZDS's arguments back on him:
(This is in reaction to Vaimes, but directed at everyone)
CropCircles as a designated misyeet does not make sense. His wagon has been moving much too slow for that to be the case. He is at most the designated not-me yeet (everyone voting him is either me or townreading me), which makes him the counter-wagon to the OG designated misyeet (me).
From there, two possibilities:
- CC is scum and his buddies have either given up on him or are struggling to get a counter-counter-wagon going.
- CC is town and scum are happy with the results no matter what happens.
Now, the above should make sense to people town-reading me. On the other hand to people scum-reading me, CC should be a martyr in the making.
This is just blatant to WIFOM, and is a terrible argument in and of itself, but I just love it because we haven't been able to get a ZDS lynch even when, prior to second deadline extension, it was clear it was between ZDS vs. no lynch at all.
Well, that wasn't nice short and easy to read bullet points, was it.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
And ZDS has never let up. This was on page 2. Look at how ridiculous that vote is. Imagine believing that complete lack of evidence holds sufficient weight to maintain a vote on CC for the rest of the day.
So, I would agree with this, except for the part where CC immediately voted ZDS back, and has also never let up since. I would not agree that ZDS's initial reasons for voting are all that there is. You're mischaracterizing it when you say that.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
ZDS provided self meta showing pride in how he was playing as scum in other game post #156. I know little about him and in the previous game I saw him as villager. I often saw villagers talking about how well they are playing as scum so I kind of like that post. On the other hand, ZDS is a skilled [player isn't it? Faking town meta may be easy for him, and playing different on purpose just to show he was playing differently as mafia is not a reason to TR.
My problems about him are:
1. his claim, the reason of the claim, the moment of the claim, being the fact he knows mafia have fake claims. Post #82 to Highroller: 'Why did you flavourclaim first thing if you are that aware of scum having fakeclaims?'
While he knows claims can be faked why did he claim on the below post so early in the day phase? Post #123 'I don't know what's my votecount so I'll get my claim out of the way: I'm Turtle and I'm vanilla.'
Turtle is not such an important character in the story iirc. This claim is extremely convenient.
Also he said in P#123 'You people should pay attention to CC42. He's obvscum.' Idk what to do with this sentence, but imo townies don't have such a ferm stance on someone. Not so early in the game.
P#282 i can vibe with the idea of t/t wagons at Eod, but is too early in the day to complain about such thing, that post was 4 days ago, i know we had the day prolonged, but..
latest thing i disliked was the idea of him tunneling Terry while voting CC. Now i see he had a spicy guess for the scum team 'CropCircles/JoeTerry/Grapefruit' in P#325, but why are his reads like frozen?
Lastly, the enjoying afternoon thing, while Eod is after afternoon - why play from the start when you don't want to be active at Eod when is at a pretty good hour for you?
Conclusion: i am not convinced ZDS is not mafia in this game. If you see, i analyzed behaviour and not his walls of words, because content is easier to fake.
My problems about him are:
1. his claim, the reason of the claim, the moment of the claim, being the fact he knows mafia have fake claims. Post #82 to Highroller: 'Why did you flavourclaim first thing if you are that aware of scum having fakeclaims?'
While he knows claims can be faked why did he claim on the below post so early in the day phase?
All right, I think this is a good point. I recall ZDS hinting at his own claim, "critters unite," right after Highroller did. So, I'm not sure where he was going with this then seeming criticism of Highroller for flavorclaiming.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I do think it should be one of those two and not some random CFD at the last minute. I think either's flip is informative.
I might be at: "I think CC is some marginal % greater > to be scum than ZDS, but ZDS might be the marginally better yeet just due to the claims."
Which is not a place I'm super happy to be.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I just went back to compile the reasons given for the JoeTerry wagon, and there really isn't much there.
I gave my reason for suspecting him in my big round up(#302). Basically I found his in game notes suspect and he seemed very preemptively defensive. Admittedly, this isn't enough for a lynch. Reading other people's post on him, I couldn't find much in the way concise reasons for his wagon. Mostly just poking and prodding. I'm not opposed to a wagon just based on gut feelings, but a rushed wagon forced by a deadline is not the way to do that.
I just went back to compile the reasons given for the JoeTerry wagon, and there really isn't much there.
I gave my reason for suspecting him in my big round up(#302). Basically I found his in game notes suspect and he seemed very preemptively defensive. Admittedly, this isn't enough for a lynch. Reading other people's post on him, I couldn't find much in the way concise reasons for his wagon. Mostly just poking and prodding. I'm not opposed to a wagon just based on gut feelings, but a rushed wagon forced by a deadline is not the way to do that.
So I guess I'll go back to a Vote ZDS
Blarghablargablah
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Through dangers untold and hardships unnumbered I have fought my way here to the castle beyond the Goblin City to take back the child you have stolen, for my will is as strong as yours and my kingdom as great. You have no power over me!
And ZDS has never let up. This was on page 2. Look at how ridiculous that vote is. Imagine believing that complete lack of evidence holds sufficient weight to maintain a vote on CC for the rest of the day.
So, I would agree with this, except for the part where CC immediately voted ZDS back, and has also never let up since. I would not agree that ZDS's initial reasons for voting are all that there is. You're mischaracterizing it when you say that.
I love how you haven't read the thread and need events to be explained to you until it you have read the thread and disagree with the explanations. Nothing disingenuous there.
ZDS has never posted a single argument all day that has made any sense. His reasoning for voting CC is terrible. The reasons for the bandwagon have been terrible when they haven't just been straight-up nonexistent like Jackrito.
You wouldn't even vote ZDS when it was a choice between ZDS and no one at all. I'm not going to bother indulging you at this point. I spent more than enough time in the Debate forum to recognize someone posting in bad faith vs. someone with actual intellectual curiosity. If you were actually willing to listen on the case against ZDS, you would have when I freaking outlined it for you.
I just went back to compile the reasons given for the JoeTerry wagon, and there really isn't much there.
I gave my reason for suspecting him in my big round up(#302). Basically I found his in game notes suspect and he seemed very preemptively defensive. Admittedly, this isn't enough for a lynch. Reading other people's post on him, I couldn't find much in the way concise reasons for his wagon. Mostly just poking and prodding. I'm not opposed to a wagon just based on gut feelings, but a rushed wagon forced by a deadline is not the way to do that.
So I guess I'll go back to a Vote ZDS
Proph and Vaimes and I have been wolf reading him for a while, I'd hardly say this wagon is "rushed"
You finished your ZDS review with "I am not convinced he is not Mafia" but that's true of like, 75% of players in the game for me -- the only ones I am confident are not wolves are Highroller and CropCircles, and the latter is by claim. That's not much of a good reason to choose one over the other, unless you are convinced Terry is not Mafia (in which case I would like to ask for your notes).
I just went back to compile the reasons given for the JoeTerry wagon, and there really isn't much there.
I gave my reason for suspecting him in my big round up(#302). Basically I found his in game notes suspect and he seemed very preemptively defensive. Admittedly, this isn't enough for a lynch. Reading other people's post on him, I couldn't find much in the way concise reasons for his wagon. Mostly just poking and prodding. I'm not opposed to a wagon just based on gut feelings, but a rushed wagon forced by a deadline is not the way to do that.
So I guess I'll go back to a Vote ZDS
Proph and Vaimes and I have been wolf reading him for a while, I'd hardly say this wagon is "rushed"
You finished your ZDS review with "I am not convinced he is not Mafia" but that's true of like, 75% of players in the game for me -- the only ones I am confident are not wolves are Highroller and CropCircles, and the latter is by claim. That's not much of a good reason to choose one over the other, unless you are convinced Terry is not Mafia (in which case I would like to ask for your notes).
im still waiting for notes on why you think I am mafia.
You probably aren't even on the chopping block, pretty sure like six people have said you're not villagery but they'd rather vote the claimed friendly neighbor than you lmao
At minimum everyone on CropCircles feels that way, neh?
Seriously though I'm not going to convince you you're a wolf, arguing with you about your alignment gets me nowhere but frustrated
If you want to convince me you're a villager go do something villagery, you have like an hour
I’ve done more villagery in the last 24hrs while being VLA than you have the whole game. Seriously, what is this crap? There is literally no case on me and I have been doing town stuff all game.
You just basically said you don’t have to make a case on me and and are totally fine just voting me for no reason and I have to deal with it.
Fake claim or not, the correct play is to leave CC alone for a minimum of one phase. This isn't everyone's first mafia game. Most of us don't know what roles are in the game and how they're going to interact with a claimed Friendly Neighbor.
How does this make me mafia? Is it not ok for me to voice my opinion that you aren’t putting much effort into this game?
Yeah this is a troll I'm not gonna feed. You can make any sort of opinion you want, but "Vaimes isn't putting effort into the game" and "Vaimes is checked out" when I've been declaring V/LA on weekends is a special kind of low. You're taking some really cheap shots.
JoeTerry trying to soft like two different roles on Day 1 hasn't escaped my notice, and if he's anything but vanilla town then he needs to be smacked. I'd like to think someone with his experience wouldn't be so sloppy as a villager.
I'm only bringing this up since he's being blatant about it. Last time someone was eager to be loose-lipped about their role, oops guess what they were mafia.
Okay now that I'm back on a computer I can go through a cliff notes version on why I think Terry is scum.
1) His catchup in the midgame feels strongly reminiscent of my scum self - he does a lot of note taking and observing, but he doesn't really ask questions or interrogate players in his catchup. This type of catchup is fairly easy for scum to pull off because they can just ignore most of the real-time that goes on in the thread and then provide commentary, which is easier to fake than real-time interactions. I would expect town Terry to ask some critical questions in his catchup, but instead he boils it down to players he agrees with (me, is town) and disagrees with (Vaimes, is scum).
2) This isn't really a point, per se, but he does a lot of "townsplaining" - IE he constantly refers to himself as town. Now if he did this only a couple times then I wouldn't bring it up, but it's kind of a constant trend throughout his posts:
Quote from JT »
Even if he targets the most town of townies (me duh)
Quote from JT »
@ZDS: I'm important. Trust me, I'm like the most important town person ever! Can you look me in the eyes and say that there is no reason for my interest in CC's lack of Vaimes discussion? Can you tell me that if it were you instead of me that it wouldn't be the slightest bit odd that he just ignored mentioning Vaimes at all? No matter how unimportant you think I am? You should know that I'm pretty full of myself from Voldemort, I'm just leaning into it more this game (and making Trump jokes at the same time).
Quote from JT »
I am so town, my doctor says I'm the most town person he has ever seen. Maybe the towniest person in the whole world.
Quote from JT »
PS I posted my notes in my recap. Yep, there were opinions in there too. I'm the most transparent villager ever. No secret notes here, you guys get to see all my notes.
(the above posts are where he explicitly refers to himself as town, the two posts below is where he defends himself weirdly)
Quote from JT »
Come on, Silver, you know deep down inside what I'm saying is true. You probably feel self-conscious about it and that's why you're voting me right now. You wish you've been posting a bit better but haven't got bitten by this game yet.
Quote from JT »
Hope that helps, I doubt it will because you already seem like you're tunneled. It's almost a sure thing that anyone who posts anything substantial like I did to catch up, will be attacked because it's content, content that people can like or dislike. You can like or dislike what I said, but I'm putting myself out there and giving my thoughts, I'm not hiding.
3) I feel like everyone skimmed over this, but when I asked him why he thought Silver's post 20 was forced, he responded with this:
Quote from JT »
1) Ok, first off it's post 20, are you really diving that deep? That being said, I didn't feel drawing a distinction between Highroller's claim and Rod's justified a vote on ZDS, which he straight up says was to end RVS, which could be interpreted as forcing.
Instead of saying "this is why I think Silver's post was forced, here are my reasons" he says "this could be interpreted as forcing". This tells me that he doesn't actually believe that Silver's push was forced - he's trying to convince himself that it is.
tldr - I think that town Terry would play this game with more nuance and be a bit more interrogative. In this game he just joined the large CropCircles bandwagon and had pressure on Vaimes that sort of went nowhere.
Fake claim or not, the correct play is to leave CC alone for a minimum of one phase. This isn't everyone's first mafia game. Most of us don't know what roles are in the game and how they're going to interact with a claimed Friendly Neighbor.
How does this make me mafia? Is it not ok for me to voice my opinion that you aren’t putting much effort into this game?
Yeah this is a troll I'm not gonna feed. You can make any sort of opinion you want, but "Vaimes isn't putting effort into the game" and "Vaimes is checked out" when I've been declaring V/LA on weekends is a special kind of low. You're taking some really cheap shots.
Im VLA on weekends too but here we both are. Can you tell me you’ve been playing your best this game?
That being said, I’m willing to listen to the best play line here. Tell me why this is the best play to let CC live a day? I explained why I didn’t think it was worth derailing our yeet in the last minutes of the day, but I’m willing to listen. In fact I straight up asked you to change my mind earlier.
Im VLA on weekends too but here we both are. Can you tell me you’ve been playing your best this game?
That being said, I’m willing to listen to the best play line here. Tell me why this is the best play to let CC live a day? I explained why I didn’t think it was worth derailing our yeet in the last minutes of the day, but I’m willing to listen. In fact I straight up asked you to change my mind earlier.
Not feeding this troll. I certainly haven't been checked out or playing my worst game ever, unless you know something about the accuracy of my reads that I don't?
It's Day 1, a provable power role claim is not worth voting out on the slim chance it's scum fishing for a CC. It's not a free ticket to endgame, and it doesn't change the number of misyeets we have. I'm not going to try and change your mind because I think you're scum and there's no point, you aren't my target audience.
My own impression, no matter how slim may look, is backing up DKs read and i find this interesting. I started also by not having a real understanding for why he voted ZDS but i ended by voting ZDS. That means I came to the same conclusion with the only townie in the game who i can 100% trust.
Unvote
If I am lynched or die tonight (I have a higher chance than most) look back at the CC lynch save that just happened
Also he and JoeTerry were tied for 2nd, with my vote JoeTerry is now 2nd.
Here’s the problem with CC’s claim. If it’s real and he’s town, think about the scenarios tomorrow that could happen. He’s roleblocked, his target is killed, his target is lying scum or he targets someone and they say “yeah he’s town” and people don’t believe or are made to distrust the target. Even if he targets the most town of townies (me duh) and they say yeah my dm said he’s town we go into a whole other set of circumstances, where that person needs to die to confirm that this wasn’t a scum ploy. I just don’t think this is a claim that will resolve itself as easily as some of you (suspiciously) think it will.
I’m running out of time to even get into how many ways scum CC can manipulate this claim but they all tie pretty closely to the town CC scenarios I listed above. I just don’t see this as a claim to change anyone’s mind on the lynch that was minutes away from happening.
I could figure it out, but, you know, as you are the one on the other side of it, seems like that ought to be more your job.
I am on a phone atm with no ability to iso people or read back effectively.
I will add being obviously lynchhungry against CropCircles.
CropCircles makes a first post with some cursory analysis, and ZDS jumps on him because CC's stances aren't strong enough. In a first post describing one's initial thoughts. Seriously. It was the guy's first post.
And ZDS has never let up. This was on page 2. Look at how ridiculous that vote is. Imagine believing that complete lack of evidence holds sufficient weight to maintain a vote on CC for the rest of the day.
The thing is, all of the early CC votes are terrible.
He already said why, Prophylaxis. It's an initial thoughts post. Calm the hell down.
And voting ZDS after his pouncing on CropCircles makes perfect sense. I would have voted for him. His reasons for voting were terrible.
Add this to yet another reason why Prophylaxis running around ZDS Stan-ing makes no sense.
Then Jackrito is just blatant bandwagoning, just like every other thing Jackrito did:
There you go. Aren't you just inspired?
These are just objectively terrible votes. Anyone who doesn't have any suspicion of the CC bandwagon needs to focus up.
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Also, I wanted to highlight this post just to showcase how freaking easy it is to turn ZDS's arguments back on him:
This is just blatant to WIFOM, and is a terrible argument in and of itself, but I just love it because we haven't been able to get a ZDS lynch even when, prior to second deadline extension, it was clear it was between ZDS vs. no lynch at all.
My problems about him are:
1. his claim, the reason of the claim, the moment of the claim, being the fact he knows mafia have fake claims.
Post #82 to Highroller: 'Why did you flavourclaim first thing if you are that aware of scum having fakeclaims?'
While he knows claims can be faked why did he claim on the below post so early in the day phase?
Post #123
'I don't know what's my votecount so I'll get my claim out of the way: I'm Turtle and I'm vanilla.'
Turtle is not such an important character in the story iirc. This claim is extremely convenient.
Also he said in P#123 'You people should pay attention to CC42. He's obvscum.'
Idk what to do with this sentence, but imo townies don't have such a ferm stance on someone. Not so early in the game.
P#282 i can vibe with the idea of t/t wagons at Eod, but is too early in the day to complain about such thing, that post was 4 days ago, i know we had the day prolonged, but..
latest thing i disliked was the idea of him tunneling Terry while voting CC. Now i see he had a spicy guess for the scum team 'CropCircles/JoeTerry/Grapefruit' in P#325, but why are his reads like frozen?
Lastly, the enjoying afternoon thing, while Eod is after afternoon - why play from the start when you don't want to be active at Eod when is at a pretty good hour for you?
Conclusion: i am not convinced ZDS is not mafia in this game. If you see, i analyzed behaviour and not his walls of words, because content is easier to fake.
Amy what do you think about this Eod?
I might be at: "I think CC is some marginal % greater > to be scum than ZDS, but ZDS might be the marginally better yeet just due to the claims."
Which is not a place I'm super happy to be.
I just went back to compile the reasons given for the JoeTerry wagon, and there really isn't much there.
I gave my reason for suspecting him in my big round up(#302). Basically I found his in game notes suspect and he seemed very preemptively defensive. Admittedly, this isn't enough for a lynch. Reading other people's post on him, I couldn't find much in the way concise reasons for his wagon. Mostly just poking and prodding. I'm not opposed to a wagon just based on gut feelings, but a rushed wagon forced by a deadline is not the way to do that.
So I guess I'll go back to a Vote ZDS
i think this is a miss but i'd rather not wind up not eliminating anyone
Vote ZeDorkSlipeur
I may vote later for Terry only because i think in this moment that CC is villager, but i would prefer a CFD on Proph or Cayvie.
CropCircles at 4 (ZDS, Cayvie, Terry, Axelrod)
Terry at 3 (Proph, Vaimes, Silver)
Grape still solo wagoning Cayvie
unless I'm miscounting?
Deadline in two hours, I'll be here for another hour maybe then all bets are off
Guess I'll speed read! **** off, mafia, I work sunrise to sunset on weekends.
ZeDorkSlipeur (4): Highroller, xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx, Cropcircles42, Ampharos
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (3): Vaimes, Prophylaxis, Silvercrys3467
Cayvie (1): Grapefruit21
Not voting (0): --
Deadline is today @ 7 PM EST; 2 hours from this post.
With 12 players, it takes 7 to eliminate.
I love how you haven't read the thread and need events to be explained to you until it you have read the thread and disagree with the explanations. Nothing disingenuous there.
ZDS has never posted a single argument all day that has made any sense. His reasoning for voting CC is terrible. The reasons for the bandwagon have been terrible when they haven't just been straight-up nonexistent like Jackrito.
Yet here you are saying, "This bandwagon is very fair and I'm happy to be a part of it."
You wouldn't even vote ZDS when it was a choice between ZDS and no one at all. I'm not going to bother indulging you at this point. I spent more than enough time in the Debate forum to recognize someone posting in bad faith vs. someone with actual intellectual curiosity. If you were actually willing to listen on the case against ZDS, you would have when I freaking outlined it for you.
You finished your ZDS review with "I am not convinced he is not Mafia" but that's true of like, 75% of players in the game for me -- the only ones I am confident are not wolves are Highroller and CropCircles, and the latter is by claim. That's not much of a good reason to choose one over the other, unless you are convinced Terry is not Mafia (in which case I would like to ask for your notes).
If you want to convince me you're a villager go do something villagery, you have like an hour
At minimum everyone on CropCircles feels that way, neh?
You just basically said you don’t have to make a case on me and and are totally fine just voting me for no reason and I have to deal with it.
Yeah this is a troll I'm not gonna feed. You can make any sort of opinion you want, but "Vaimes isn't putting effort into the game" and "Vaimes is checked out" when I've been declaring V/LA on weekends is a special kind of low. You're taking some really cheap shots.
I'm only bringing this up since he's being blatant about it. Last time someone was eager to be loose-lipped about their role, oops guess what they were mafia.
1) His catchup in the midgame feels strongly reminiscent of my scum self - he does a lot of note taking and observing, but he doesn't really ask questions or interrogate players in his catchup. This type of catchup is fairly easy for scum to pull off because they can just ignore most of the real-time that goes on in the thread and then provide commentary, which is easier to fake than real-time interactions. I would expect town Terry to ask some critical questions in his catchup, but instead he boils it down to players he agrees with (me, is town) and disagrees with (Vaimes, is scum).
2) This isn't really a point, per se, but he does a lot of "townsplaining" - IE he constantly refers to himself as town. Now if he did this only a couple times then I wouldn't bring it up, but it's kind of a constant trend throughout his posts:
(the above posts are where he explicitly refers to himself as town, the two posts below is where he defends himself weirdly)
3) I feel like everyone skimmed over this, but when I asked him why he thought Silver's post 20 was forced, he responded with this:
Instead of saying "this is why I think Silver's post was forced, here are my reasons" he says "this could be interpreted as forcing". This tells me that he doesn't actually believe that Silver's push was forced - he's trying to convince himself that it is.
tldr - I think that town Terry would play this game with more nuance and be a bit more interrogative. In this game he just joined the large CropCircles bandwagon and had pressure on Vaimes that sort of went nowhere.
That being said, I’m willing to listen to the best play line here. Tell me why this is the best play to let CC live a day? I explained why I didn’t think it was worth derailing our yeet in the last minutes of the day, but I’m willing to listen. In fact I straight up asked you to change my mind earlier.
I'd vote ZDS over a no yeet, but I think he's a villager.
It's Day 1, a provable power role claim is not worth voting out on the slim chance it's scum fishing for a CC. It's not a free ticket to endgame, and it doesn't change the number of misyeets we have. I'm not going to try and change your mind because I think you're scum and there's no point, you aren't my target audience.
My preference would be like JT >>>> CC|ZDS >>> NL though
I think ZDS is town and I would prefer if we gave CC a night to test his ability
ZeDorkSlipeur (4): Highroller, xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx, Cropcircles42, Ampharos
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (3): Vaimes, Prophylaxis, Silvercrys3467
Cayvie (1): Grapefruit21
Not voting (0): --
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Silver, Proph: the three of us are switching to ZDS at :55.