I think ZDS meta-wise is a bit in between so far, with it a bit pushing more towards his town self, because he focusing on more people than just one
I think reading Rodemy on his emotion is incorrect, and he looks ok because he is pushing what he believes
Lagoon definitely fell off, but that slot will become more obvious based on consistency
Killjoy is ok I guess
Axel's response to Killjoy is kinda townie, he is definitely able to give a clear and concise answer for everything he has done so far, not convince that his vote still wasn't just busywork.
Tom isn't worth looking at right now
Shadow also isn't really worth looking at right now, and given the fact that he asked for the dark mark, makes me just want to leave him alone, till he provides more content
Think you are jumping the gun with that Terry read, and especially with that K-paca read
K-paca has done absolutely nothing out of his wolf range, and has done nothing he couldn't easily do as a wolf
Clearly your reads are shallow as they should be at this point, but these two above I hate the most
I disliked how you sheeped my read on Zion, I dislike how you called 4 people "Top Town" and only talked about me
Final Note:
Are you afraid to wolf read me?
So is the main difference between scum Zds and town is that he has a habit to tunnel focus on others? Because if that is true he seems hyper focused on Rod with some light suspicion. on Axel. I think my main issue though is that he lacks impact to me in Matter I could tell he was town pretty early even with a parnoiad mindset going in. Here I'm just not getting that vibe, this can change because still early but its how I feel. I'm also a bit put off by how a couple of people were townreading him off his first post maybe this is just because I don't know him well.
Rod just feels right to me to a small degree, also does him not pushing something he believe make him town? Like I said never seen him as scum so not sure the difference, I like how he is giving a lot of different views on people and not scared of the heat it will bring. From recent exp gambits like he did are more likely from town. I will say something that pings me is his reaction to Sloth's vote compared to Z, both appear to be for same reason, but he calls ZDS town and fine with it. On Sloth we had this whole ep going on. I feel that he is reveluating the game though based off his ever changing stances. I semi get where Sloth and ZDS mean with him feeling calculated but giving him the benefit. This is not a lock town by any means because they are doubts but no intrest today like you said eariler he is a easy slot for scum to push.
Lagoon is very middle ground for me some good some bad if I get the consistency you speak of then yeah sure. His entry bothers me though and he lacks conviction to me I feel like Rod said at one point about his push on him. I had a early tinfoil that he was potential scum with you which is clear based off some early post, but I townread you more so dropped it for now. More on this later though.
Killjoy I need more content from never seen him as scum either I think? He seems pretty much the same just asking questions and making a town core he has the trait you know I hate of no scum read. This is early game though so not too bothered by it, I also know by now this can easily come from town and feel KJ did it in my other games with him.
Axel's Rod vote bothers me for reasons already said, he just seems a bit lacking overall though after his early complaints about role and push on you for having a similar one it seems. I plan to reiso him at some point, but they are a couple of red flags I need to compare this to old games because pretty sure I felt this way last time and he was town.
I agree on Tom
Fair on Shadow I feel his slot I can work out perhaps anyway when does more.
Kpaca and Terry are my weakest reads tbh because they are some weird meta's in play here that I'm not used to so I admit my read on them is more sheeping then I would normally like. I don't do well with agrro players as you know but they normally are town, but these reads have the highest chance to change.
Why do you have issue with 4 people as top town for me. You are the least of the three and based off my eariler posts, I knew that was going to be the red flag to some people which is why I chose to post about you. Your role had the biggest evo in my reread compared to my skim reading.
I'm not afraid to wolf read you going into this, I expected to come out of it doing so. Some things changed my mind though, I rethought your intial claim and I don't feel you risk it as scum espically with how much heat you would get and your rep here. I can be wrong there but that was the start. My issues came from you in my view being a bit stiff then I'm used to and being overreactive to being scum read but as I said this did happen in mostly also. I also felt your intial read on Lagoon Rod and Sloth weird which is why I asked about them. I did like for example you questioning kpaca town read by KJ though. Your view on how Fonti is town based off push on you felt like a town mindset also. You had a weird change on Rod from him being fake to wanting to clear him off he spew himself off posting. This feels like a town type thing for you because you change your mind and view on people a lot.
Your early scum reads on Terry for their push on you, Kpaca for misreping you and Axel for mech talk feeling calulacted like Tom pointed out through his chess meme felt a bit too reactive and potentially fake to me. On this actually why did you change Kpaca to being town later because you felt his push on you was not malicious explain that to me.
I liked your read list tbh though and felt it made sense if a bit weak but most early lists are, I'm a bit shocked you did it because you normally ignore that stuff, but you are a very unpredictable player at times so giving this as a nai. I did not like your 462 that felt like a real me thing which I pointed out lol. I also felt your lash out on Amy was not needed and a bit much but this is also nai. My townread on you really came from after all this once you calmed down, this felt like town Wisp when you called out Poison for sheeping Sloth, your view on Sloth and why he voted me making no sense this one really felt like you trying to work him out rather then agenda. You also defending Rod because a easy mislynch, saying Amy and Kpaca can be town because push not malicious on you and finally your view on kill Sloth if still alive day 3. This chain of stances felt very town you and if scum cut off a lot of potential options early.
So as you can see it was a bit of a rollercoaster for me and it may still be because possible this is in your scum range, but I think you are town here and want to work with you. My other top town apart from Amy have all pocketed me in the past, so I'm a bit scared of this happening again because I feel Amy could do it.
I made a lot of notes during my reread which is why I could do this, but did not share them because it annoys people and I don't want to be the iso guy unless asked.
Is there anyone else who’s alignment won’t be revealed on flip?
What would we do with that info? Round 'em up?
...Yes?
Gives me the impression that you don't want to hunt, if that's true. What's causing you to hesitate here? I also recall being warned against trying to game the setup.
Is there anyone else who’s alignment won’t be revealed on flip?
Mine will be as far as I know, but thinking about it further, I would like to NOT lynch people early on who's alignment won't be shown. I think we need data and lynching someone who won't give us concrete data seems like a waste of a Day 1 or even Day 2 lynch. Yes, I know LW is included in that.
That was my impression too, but apparently not everyone agrees.
Why are you going to procrastinate? What do you play mafia for? Why does having more time make you want to waste it? Why isn't it just more fun to spend on the game and hunt them wolves?
A reminder that players are expected to read all communication from the host. If you do not understand something, ask. If you do not ask, it is assumed that you have read and understood all communication from the host (within reason).
Why do I have the feeling this is going to end up with someone massively dropping the ball?
Actually, back to this: What's the hurry of getting this out so quickly. Day is almost 2 weeks long and you started this as a discussion proposal.
Then you skipped the discussion and just tossed this in there without waiting for people to comment on it. I mean, 3/4s of the players haven't even posted yet.
Well, I figure people are going to be cagey about their roles, and are pretty much going to do whatever they want/think is best. I wanted to get my thing out now rather than later so it wouldn't get lost in a sea of drama or derail any scumhunting.
I don't really want comments on my claim. I just wanted the claim out there.
I think Sloth had a good point here. I don't see claiming any role info without some sort of discussion happening whether you intended it or not, especially this soon.
I think it's like a weird WIFOMy situation now that you have brought attention to it. I don't think you increased the chances of going ignored. While I don't agree with the play, I can understand why with the unique timing of the beginning.
What does this even mean? Why post the bolded, what was the point? Also, why not take Last's word for it, why does that matter? Maybe I'm just not as flip oriented as people, because I just kill them and then assume they were a wolf, and then tinfoil, and then was usually right in the first place, but I don't get why you'd bother to bring this up. Like, the only way to find out is to kill last anyway, after which the problem is solved, so why be concerned about believing or not believing the claim in the first place.
I was kind of thinking the same thing Sloth pointed out. Discussion was inevitable so why act as if it wouldn't be? Everyone is hungry for anything to break the ice and so I understand going that route to get things started, but I still don't agree with it. With 20 players it's just unlikely you'd be targeted anyway unless you really paint a target on yourself, which he did.
As for LW it goes back into getting flips for info, being able to check interactions based on that, etc. I don't understand why you'd be so eager to assume. But my point was there could be other ways to look at it with role interactions, which will take some time to play out. I'm okay with waiting for a bit.
Zion –
His wall feels like the typical wolf asking questions that do nothing,
responding to posts with stuff that doesn't really progress the game
is what I tried to write, idk what happened
Oh, that wasn't a wall. I haven't started tunneling someone yet, lol
What do you expect me to do, waltz in to Day 1 and have all the answers? All we've gotten at that point was a few soft claims no one asked for in a bastard-element setup. Can't analyze it in any traditional sense, just working with what I'm given.
#255
In regards to this post, I’d probably say the same thing I said in regards to Terry. I’d expect town!Sloth to stand his ground on his own opinion, rather than back off because others think its something that Terry could do as town
Page 1 of his iso is combinations of playfulness, and poking at Terry, also he votes Jack because ???
Calls out Rodemy as being possible scum? But he hasn’t said anything really about Jack, so IDK why his vote ended up there?
So Sloth can be a wolf I guess? His content on a macro level isn’t townie enough to volume clear him yet thats for sure
Definitely something different about Sloth this game, but I don't think it makes him scum necessarily. The self-evaluation on post count and retreat from the thread comes to mind.
What treatment? People voting for you? Seriously? This is your response? "people are mean to me"? WHAT
well you people want me to force stuff, and then you call it *****
when of course its gonna be *****, when this is not how I play mafia
I choose to walk away cause its better for my sanity, and the thread
TBH I should expect this, because wagoning me early on his literally a meme at this point
because my entrances are usually garbage
I am currently happy with my reads and my vote
Everything okay?
The way I see it, this is constantly going to be an issue. You can't blow up every time someone asks a question or votes you, because that's gonna happen a lot.
I strongly dislike Rodemy's reverse psychology gambit. It is self-serving (getting the Dark Mark is good for him regardless of his side), and would not actually have given us much info even if it worked (so what if scum control the mark and give it to towndemy? Who do we vote, then? And why wouldn't scum mark each other first instead?). Moreover, he dropped it way too soon as a result of being questioned, which is also self-serving behaviour.
Also, his posts overall are way too nuanced and calculated. This isn't the Rodemy I love with his ideas fusing in unexpected directions and him following them no matter what the town thinks. Give me back the real Rodemy è_é.
Unvote, Vote: Rodemy
Rod, why are you trying to guess whose gimmick Lagoon is? What about that time you were askthepizzaguy and got mad at (tom?) for several games for uncovering your identity?
How about if I was scum, why would I lie. About it effecting me negatively? If town gives out the dark mark, that would definitely not be the way to get it. If scum give out the dark mark, and I was scum, I wouldn’t have to say anything at all.
It can only come from a town perspective to try and pull the dark mark in the way that I did.
These are bad arguments, and you should know they're bad.
a lesser Rodemy would vote you for this, but I am growing as a player and realize this is NAI.
Growth or no growth, you were already plenty good enough to make this kind of observation before. This is more of a playstyle change than you gradually becoming better. A scummy playstyle change, as if you decided you couldn't afford to go full-speed-ahead-no-brakes anymore.
Lagoon, I agree with fulcrum for disliking Poison's entry post and with Whispy's stance on 488.
now I can’t change as a player without being scumread for it. What would you prefer? AMY HAS TO BE SCUM BECAUSE SHE DIDNT INCLUDE HERSELF IN THE VILLAGER COUNT.
vote amy
Yeah? Does that sway you any?
I am trying to be a GOOD mafia player. I assure you there is a reason I did that gimmick and I will explain when claim time comes. But as someone pointed out, if scum give out dark marks, why not give it to themselves first? So that was poor thinking in the first place.
The self-awareness of "I'm growing as a player" is a weird way to post. It's not that you may be changing playstyles, it's the self-awareness of it that makes me believe it's insincere. Did you really give a lot of thought to this plan first or just kind of seize an opportunity?
If he would let us lynch him to spite us, then we should let him. That says more about him than it does us.
Probably it does. But if we're trying to get him to stop, and we know going in that he isn't going to stop, then we haven't accomplished much.
I will say, if he's still doing it D2, I may revisit. Unless he actually wants to claim "posting restriction." Then I guess we'll see.
D2 it is. I think it's a real shame because Tom could potentially add a great deal. As funny as it is I'm starting to get annoyed that he either isn't applying himself or doesn't care.
She's saying that in prison you reacted to the slightest of pressure by frothing at the mouth and calling your accusers players scum until you were blue in the face.
Which, true, is kind of what's happening here.
Hm.
You don't get to back off now sloth. I'm not done with you.
I had to ******* pick myself up from what i was dealt in that game and i say i did a damn good job. I'm not frothing at the mouth, i am dismantling arguments against me. YOU EVEN SAID i am making sense.
This implosion I could totally see as scum. Rodemy, you're scorching a straw man. The tone is more telling than the argument. I think you could be mad his meta read is true and you're letting it get to you.
Killjoy, I am debating with myself going down this stupid rabbit hole with you because it's almost totally irrelevant, and then someone is going to make a thing out of me wasting time talking about stuff that doesn't matter. But I am me, and I don't think I can let it go when you post like this.
Axel, why are you wasting so much time explaining stuff that doesn't matter!?
still think emotion is just NAI for Rodemy
and my reactions are better when the cases on me are at least half-way decent
Personally I am still trying to figure out what Rodemy's plan was? I think he said something about trying to find out if the dark stuff giver, is mafia or town? which doesn't really do much for us
i also dislike how much of zionite's above post is one-sided interactions and rhetorical questions. there's a push on rod in there and like half a read of sloth but it's pretty busywork-ish beyond that
zion i'd love to hear your stance on some of the other players in this game. just like off-the-cuff thoughts
@Ampharos
I meaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, meh?
on the surface its looks glorious, but my brain wants me to say wolf!Jack could more easily make that?
but I dont want to punish Jack for putting effort in, so I will continue to let him do his thing
@Ampharos
I meaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, meh?
on the surface its looks glorious, but my brain wants me to say wolf!Jack could more easily make that?
but I dont want to punish Jack for putting effort in, so I will continue to let him do his thing
I could do that as scum not going to pretend otherwise, you know one of the key difference between my scum game and town though. Up to you if you think its something that I can fix easily or not. A large part of that depends on how bad the player base is though.
We are bringing that Purple game out lol. I'm glad we are ignoring my trash scum games, like The thing and some I can't remember.
@Ampharos
I meaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, meh?
on the surface its looks glorious, but my brain wants me to say wolf!Jack could more easily make that?
but I dont want to punish Jack for putting effort in, so I will continue to let him do his thing
On people who know my scum play here its only Fuwa, Wisp and WMU. WMU may not know it was me though because it was the alt game where he got that account. Out of the 3 Fuwa knows it best since I have being scum with her a couple of times and she has hosted games and being town in others. Wisp has some exp so is a decent judge and because I talk mafia theory to him a fair bit.
A lot of people here think they can work me out though off only 2 games of exp and only seeing me play town they know who they are lol.
what about that is villagery. I get a lot of negative feedback when I wall post so very self aware about it now. Part of the reason I stopped the giant iso walls also like mentioned before.
I am pretty sure I can read Wake as she begins to post more
something something, her tone is more snippy when she is town
given I do know who they are though, particularly makes it hard to give tangible evidence unless I specifically use other games where this alt was used, and none are mafia games
@Ampharos
I meaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, meh?
on the surface its looks glorious, but my brain wants me to say wolf!Jack could more easily make that?
but I dont want to punish Jack for putting effort in, so I will continue to let him do his thing
how would you describe the difference between town and scum jack?
scum game is a bit more aggressive I guess
I really don't know this conclusive evidence that he is referring to
probably wouldn't use it though, given my respect for him, and more so wanting to read him off the content of "this" game
what about that is villagery. I get a lot of negative feedback when I wall post so very self aware about it now. Part of the reason I stopped the giant iso walls also like mentioned before.
"whoops this wound up longer than intended" is something that i think tends to happen more as town than as scum
as town there, you're just rattling off thoughts as they come into your head, not really cognizant of how they look, and then you go to post the whole thing and realize that the thoughts in your head comprise an entire novella of a post and you're like "ah yeah. oops"
as scum, you're having to come up with fake thoughts to fill the entirety of this post, and you're likely going to be much more cognizant of where they're coming from and how they look on the whole. as scum you're probably not caught off-guard by the final length of your post, so that particular reaction would have to be falsified to an extent, and i'm not reading yours as such.
I am a little busy and i will not really play until monday and again i didn't read but i received a ping from Amy.
Idk what's about because i see the link redirected me to the last post not to the post with the ping :shrug i will most probably answer later if i find it while catching up.
I will check the thread in few hours again, maybe Amy will ask again
I am a little busy and i will not really play until monday and again i didn't read but i received a ping from Amy.
Idk what's about because i see the link redirected me to the last post not to the post with the ping :shrug i will most probably answer later if i find it while catching up.
I will check the thread in few hours again, maybe Amy will ask again
I'm not gonna lie i don't remember pinging you LOL
am looking forward to hearing your catchup thoughts
Unvote: Rodemy
I agree with Sloth who agrees with me, but I am increasingly willing to give Rod the benefit of the doubt and take him on his word when he says he is trying to improve.
Vote: Axelrod for being my other scum read.
Axel, would you mind claiming what makes your role so frustrating, in vague terms? So we can try to figure out if your lack of motivation comes from your (*****ty?) role or from your alignment.
I like KJ's vote in 669. It contrasts well with Axel's vote on Rodemy. Both were delayed, but whereas Axel's questioning of Rod wasn't doing anything in terms of determining his alignment and the vote was explicitely just a wagon vote, Killjoy's questioning of Axel was all about giving him a fair chance and the vote came as a logical conclusion to their interaction.
Axel, do you think KJ's vote is scummy? Some of the vocabulary in 680 implies so ("You seem to be trying very hard to up-play it into something more than it ever was. / And this is where I say again that I think you ought to know better.")
I'm not fond of Zionite's catch-up post for the same reasons Amy put in 709.
Zionite, isn't "quoting where things jumped out to [you]" your modus operandi in all situations? Why do you feel the need to explain what you are doing?
That is the stupidest argument i have ever heard. Oh, Rodemy is thinking and makes sense this game, must be scum. Why the **** would i drastically change my meta like that just because i rolled scum? You are arguing that I rolled scum, so i am trying to act differently.
In a game of lies and deception, there is nothing strange with thinking someone who acts differently than usual is lying and deceiving. It's somewhat unfair since people do change, but it's far more unfair to ask others to treat you as a completely new person.
Furthermore, if you are making conscious efforts to change and improve, then you cannot be mad at anyone for noticing you've changed.
i have a severe lack of confidence and think everything i say is wrong and nobody actually agrees with me.
Because you tend to catch tells no one else is seeing, you are biased against following the majority (eg shadow vs Tubba in Matter), and you are bad at expressing what you see in convincingly logical terms.
Fix the third bit and mitigate the second and you will become a terrifying player. Change the first bit and you will become boring and dull. In the meantime, you tend to come out as a tinfoil-hatted conspiracy theorist yelling at clouds.
I liked that comment, by the way. Even if it could easily be NAI, it seemed to come from the heart and not be the result of careful self-consciousness.
ZDS: Talk to me a bit more about Axel if Rod flips scum. I was getting a similar vibe, but my reasons are getting jumbled together and I'm unsure of it.
I don't know. All I know is I could see scum-Axel distancing from scumdemy then bussing him after seeing the early sparks of a possible wagon, or I could see scum-Axel testing the waters with towndemy then voting him for the same reason. The town-Axel worlds are harder to imagine because he hasn't been townie yet.
Is there a limit to the urls in this forum? Trying to post my reads, but the urls just expands in previews, but when I test with just one, it works out fine.
Killjoy #281 - Liking Killjoy for asking the same question towards Ter. Idk about putting her in townlean though.
tomsloger #148 - I don't really plan on reading intents behind the gifs, it's just annoying, but this vote feels a little town to because Axelrod is suspicious imo.
(not sure how anyone could read his gif communication :/ )
Axelrod #15 - I saw somewhere that someone Oh it was Lagoon said this sounds like neutral claim, but due to reasons it's possible to just be an anti-town role. Though the "never actually had a chance" does bring some question. #132 - I disagree. I think Lastwhisper's claim was townier than Lagoon's. #135 - This doesn't make sense if he thinks LW's claim was less townie than Lagoon. Unless there's like only two roles like that here and he expect them not to be of the same alignment. But then I'd expect Axelrod to view Lastwhisper as leaning scum for the claim.
kpaca (I like that kpaca wants tomsloger to get out of that gif posting)(Ok seems like tomsloger does this often so that just seems like unproductive insistence)
Lastwhisper #143 - I have trouble believing this because I have a bias that thinks you're the kind that think things a lot. So for you not to think of Janitor is a little not believable.
Yeah, there's a limit. Looks like I gotta break my post to several posts.
fulcrum #293 - Not sure how I felt about this post. On one hand, it's calling someone scum, on the other it's saying he could be town still. So wishy washy.
TerRaine Question - Why do you see town!sloth in #61? #202 - Feels like a stretch, but not that weird given it's Day 1. #269 - Also feels like a stretch. What does quoting a post have to do with anything.
gooLagoon #4 - Entrance is ok. I like how he went straight for questions that get people to discuss about things. #20 - Yeah not a fan of the claim before everyone got around to give thoughts on whether claim should be made. It's not the claim itself that was bad, it's that he asked in #4 first which shows a want for discussion then without waiting for the discussion to happen, he claimed. Doesn't add up. #43 - I like this questioning towards TerRaine though. #130 - nod nod
Tubba Fett Question -#270 - What warrants this town points though? Lastwhisper started it and wants it to stop because it's about him. So why does that give him town points?
Ampharos
(General feeling is Ampharos = town.)
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry #329 - Reasonable. I think shadow's question in #313 is decent too. I don't think opinion on whether someone should be eliminated based on their role/alignment flip or no-flip is AI.
Zionite #121 - Not a fan of the part where he says "Possible other ways to deal with this?" to Lastwhisper. Feels off. I don't know how to explain it.
Alright, for some reason I can't post Sloth's part. It just broke.
Slothful
#8 - Response to Lagoon's #4 is pretty laidback. The lack of hesistation makes me feel like it's coming from a town slot.
#47 - I like this because it's exactly what I was thinking. Lagoon answered in #51 but it doesn't really sway the needle for me.
#72 - +1 <3
#186 - +1
#224 - I kinda like that Sloth is asking all these question though this one in particular felt a little try-hard.
Just can't post links to the pages, not sure why.
Anyway, I'm tired. Note to self = next.page8
@Fuwa
I think the chaos generated in thread would’ve suited scumLast more. It seems more like an organic situation unfolding than a play for AtE. It’s entirely possible that I’m misreading the situation but I thought it was referencing an OoG “conflict”. By trying to shut it down, it puts focus back on the game and didn’t evolve into the basis for any kind of attack.
what about that is villagery. I get a lot of negative feedback when I wall post so very self aware about it now. Part of the reason I stopped the giant iso walls also like mentioned before.
"whoops this wound up longer than intended" is something that i think tends to happen more as town than as scum
as town there, you're just rattling off thoughts as they come into your head, not really cognizant of how they look, and then you go to post the whole thing and realize that the thoughts in your head comprise an entire novella of a post and you're like "ah yeah. oops"
as scum, you're having to come up with fake thoughts to fill the entirety of this post, and you're likely going to be much more cognizant of where they're coming from and how they look on the whole. as scum you're probably not caught off-guard by the final length of your post, so that particular reaction would have to be falsified to an extent, and i'm not reading yours as such.
I like this observation.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
TerRaine Question - Why do you see town!sloth in #61? #202 - Feels like a stretch, but not that weird given it's Day 1. #269 - Also feels like a stretch. What does quoting a post have to do with anything.
I’ve answered 61 at least twice
202 what does the time of the game have to do with lumping terms together that are different things. If you’re town aligned playing an anti town role you should be incredibly cognizant of differentiating between the two. D1 or D15 that doesn’t change
Sloth: Just *****talking Vaimes a bit. Like we did to you in that last game when you were spectating.
I'm noticing you're not as fun as Vaimes is.
No matter. Do you feel that Rod's 'solid town read' on ter is a)accurate and b)premature? If so, why?
ZDS: Talk to me a bit more about Axel if Rod flips scum. I was getting a similar vibe, but my reasons are getting jumbled together and I'm unsure of it.
@Kpaca: Feel free to keep reading last the way you are (keep him on his toes)), but I do wanna say that just the presence of frustration even this early isn't a scum thing for last. Sometimes last just has feelings in the game that aren't related.
@Axel:Ok. But if he's scum then wouldn't he know his scumbuddies roles, at least one other of which would probably have the Dark Mark mechanic? Unless all instances of scum Dark Marks are bad for them, I don't see how scum!Rod would come to the conclusion that it's always bad for everybody. In that case, he'd have to be faking the confusion, so can you help show that that's the case we're seeing here?
Aside: I take issue with the fact that you're actively scumreading Rod, but felt the need to qualify your vote with "I like wagon jumping".
BUT WHAT IF HES ALSO SCUM THIS TIME 😡
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Killjoy, I am debating with myself going down this stupid rabbit hole with you because it's almost totally irrelevant, and then someone is going to make a thing out of me wasting time talking about stuff that doesn't matter. But I am me, and I don't think I can let it go when you post like this. What are you even talking about? What conversation are you in?
I am going to assume you meant to put an "either/or" in there, as in "one or the other of these things must be true." but even if that was what you meant, it still doesn't follow. It doesn't follow as something plausible and it doesn't follow from what I said.
The first speculation you have written here doesn't make sense. There is no reasonable game set-up (given the opening post) in which "all instances of a scum dark mark are negative." That is simply not a scenario in play here. I fail to see what point you think you are making with it.
The second speculation - that scum have positive Dark Mark upgrades - is what we were always talking about.
You said this:This in response to my speculative hypothetical as to how a scum-Rodemy could have made the post he did.
What "more information" do you think I am assuming a scum!Rod would have? Because there isn't any. Can you not see this?
The hypothetical was: if Rod. truly did not read the opening post, and did not know that the Dark Marks were upgrades for everyone, and saw that they were upgrades for himself (and his team?) then it seems like it would at least be possible that - seeing a Town member asking for one - he would think that odd. Because he might have been assuming that the Dark Marks were a thing just for scum.
That's it. That was the entire speculation. It's really simple.
Says you? How about I say that it is exactly how a person would vote given the "read" I had.
Plus, wagon.
You seem to be trying very hard to up-play it into something more than it ever was.
And this is where I say again that I think you ought to know better.
I guess I can't help you there. Except to point out that, when I make a strong vote (which rarely happens on D1, and virtually never this early) I would believe you usually know it. And I also wouldn't qualify it with, "not a slam dunk or anything, but fine for now...."
you seem kinda overly concerned with looking like you are refuting killjoy, for someone who doesn’t want to go down the rabbit hole with kill joy.
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Good god there's some prolific posters here. Just quoting where things jumped out to me.
Oh jeez and Jack just posted a decent-sized wall...kinda makes me want to "highlight the waffles" again.
Gives me the impression that you don't want to hunt, if that's true. What's causing you to hesitate here? I also recall being warned against trying to game the setup.
That was my impression too, but apparently not everyone agrees.
Interesting way to say "post more please".
Why do I have the feeling this is going to end up with someone massively dropping the ball?
I was kind of thinking the same thing Sloth pointed out. Discussion was inevitable so why act as if it wouldn't be? Everyone is hungry for anything to break the ice and so I understand going that route to get things started, but I still don't agree with it. With 20 players it's just unlikely you'd be targeted anyway unless you really paint a target on yourself, which he did.
As for LW it goes back into getting flips for info, being able to check interactions based on that, etc. I don't understand why you'd be so eager to assume. But my point was there could be other ways to look at it with role interactions, which will take some time to play out. I'm okay with waiting for a bit.
Oh, that wasn't a wall. I haven't started tunneling someone yet, lol
What do you expect me to do, waltz in to Day 1 and have all the answers? All we've gotten at that point was a few soft claims no one asked for in a bastard-element setup. Can't analyze it in any traditional sense, just working with what I'm given.
It would be like pulling teeth and I'm no dentist. What was the case again?
Definitely something different about Sloth this game, but I don't think it makes him scum necessarily. The self-evaluation on post count and retreat from the thread comes to mind.
Everything okay?
The way I see it, this is constantly going to be an issue. You can't blow up every time someone asks a question or votes you, because that's gonna happen a lot.
I like this post.
These are bad arguments, and you should know they're bad.
The self-awareness of "I'm growing as a player" is a weird way to post. It's not that you may be changing playstyles, it's the self-awareness of it that makes me believe it's insincere. Did you really give a lot of thought to this plan first or just kind of seize an opportunity?
I'm with you but I don't think he's gonna stop unless we actually try to lynch him.
D2 it is. I think it's a real shame because Tom could potentially add a great deal. As funny as it is I'm starting to get annoyed that he either isn't applying himself or doesn't care.
This implosion I could totally see as scum. Rodemy, you're scorching a straw man. The tone is more telling than the argument. I think you could be mad his meta read is true and you're letting it get to you.
unvote, vote Rodemy
Axel, why are you wasting so much time explaining stuff that doesn't matter!?
So let’s actually try to lynch him so he stops. It doesn’t hurt us to try.
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Every time I've seen someone push, "BuT He SlIpPeD", they proceeded to flip town
the first real slip I've seen in a while was game 5 of Mafia Champs.
They can happen, but I rarely ever
Axel, would you mind claiming what makes your role so frustrating, in vague terms? So we can try to figure out if your lack of motivation comes from your (*****ty?) role or from your alignment.
I don't know if I can without just making it completely obvious. I was not lying in my opening post. My - personal - chances of "winning" this game are small, and it is something that I - personally - have virtually no control over. That is something of a motivation drainer for me.
Axel, do you think KJ's vote is scummy? Some of the vocabulary in 680 implies so ("You seem to be trying very hard to up-play it into something more than it ever was. / And this is where I say again that I think you ought to know better.")
It seems to me that Killjoy has gone into pit-bull mode. Just latching on and determined to hold forever. I think it is possible that's a Town Killjoy who really believes he's on to something, but it's also possible that's a scum Killjoy trying to emulate what he thinks his Town self would do. I haven't decided yet. His last post made no sense, and it read like he was really stretching to try and maintain his argument. I'm currently waiting to see if he actually had a point there that I somehow missed.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Pretty similar to my own apart from Lagoon. I would also swap Sloth and Wisp. ZDS is not as town to me either.
talk to me about sloth
Sloth is a mixed read for me and that is a concern. in my 2 town games with him he has being more of a easy read for me and in my top town. In our last game everyone wanted him dead, but I fought it even though he was my competing wagon and it made people scum read me more, I felt that confident in town Sloth normally.
He has some good posts the ones I have marked are 596 and 6o6.His pushs this game feel so weird to me though and way more agrro then I would expect, him to be and this is a tad off putting for me. It is possible that he has more free time, then last time and so has more conviction. I need to reread prison game and see if he was this agrro because not sure. My examples of this are saying that Terry is scum for his push on Wisp which I disagree with and felt a bit opportunistic, and his push on Rod is just copying ZDS to a degree and not the type of thing I would expect Sloth to push. Apart from that his tone and his eveulation on people seems pretty good and seems like he is working out the game. So I don't think he is clear scum but nowhere near high town for me. This is why I described him as off to me in my first semi readlist.
So is the main difference between scum Zds and town is that he has a habit to tunnel focus on others? Because if that is true he seems hyper focused on Rod with some light suspicion. on Axel. I think my main issue though is that he lacks impact to me in Matter I could tell he was town pretty early even with a parnoiad mindset going in. Here I'm just not getting that vibe, this can change because still early but its how I feel. I'm also a bit put off by how a couple of people were townreading him off his first post maybe this is just because I don't know him well.
Rod just feels right to me to a small degree, also does him not pushing something he believe make him town? Like I said never seen him as scum so not sure the difference, I like how he is giving a lot of different views on people and not scared of the heat it will bring. From recent exp gambits like he did are more likely from town. I will say something that pings me is his reaction to Sloth's vote compared to Z, both appear to be for same reason, but he calls ZDS town and fine with it. On Sloth we had this whole ep going on. I feel that he is reveluating the game though based off his ever changing stances. I semi get where Sloth and ZDS mean with him feeling calculated but giving him the benefit. This is not a lock town by any means because they are doubts but no intrest today like you said eariler he is a easy slot for scum to push.
Lagoon is very middle ground for me some good some bad if I get the consistency you speak of then yeah sure. His entry bothers me though and he lacks conviction to me I feel like Rod said at one point about his push on him. I had a early tinfoil that he was potential scum with you which is clear based off some early post, but I townread you more so dropped it for now. More on this later though.
Killjoy I need more content from never seen him as scum either I think? He seems pretty much the same just asking questions and making a town core he has the trait you know I hate of no scum read. This is early game though so not too bothered by it, I also know by now this can easily come from town and feel KJ did it in my other games with him.
Axel's Rod vote bothers me for reasons already said, he just seems a bit lacking overall though after his early complaints about role and push on you for having a similar one it seems. I plan to reiso him at some point, but they are a couple of red flags I need to compare this to old games because pretty sure I felt this way last time and he was town.
I agree on Tom
Fair on Shadow I feel his slot I can work out perhaps anyway when does more.
Kpaca and Terry are my weakest reads tbh because they are some weird meta's in play here that I'm not used to so I admit my read on them is more sheeping then I would normally like. I don't do well with agrro players as you know but they normally are town, but these reads have the highest chance to change.
Why do you have issue with 4 people as top town for me. You are the least of the three and based off my eariler posts, I knew that was going to be the red flag to some people which is why I chose to post about you. Your role had the biggest evo in my reread compared to my skim reading.
I'm not afraid to wolf read you going into this, I expected to come out of it doing so. Some things changed my mind though, I rethought your intial claim and I don't feel you risk it as scum espically with how much heat you would get and your rep here. I can be wrong there but that was the start. My issues came from you in my view being a bit stiff then I'm used to and being overreactive to being scum read but as I said this did happen in mostly also. I also felt your intial read on Lagoon Rod and Sloth weird which is why I asked about them. I did like for example you questioning kpaca town read by KJ though. Your view on how Fonti is town based off push on you felt like a town mindset also. You had a weird change on Rod from him being fake to wanting to clear him off he spew himself off posting. This feels like a town type thing for you because you change your mind and view on people a lot.
Your early scum reads on Terry for their push on you, Kpaca for misreping you and Axel for mech talk feeling calulacted like Tom pointed out through his chess meme felt a bit too reactive and potentially fake to me. On this actually why did you change Kpaca to being town later because you felt his push on you was not malicious explain that to me.
I liked your read list tbh though and felt it made sense if a bit weak but most early lists are, I'm a bit shocked you did it because you normally ignore that stuff, but you are a very unpredictable player at times so giving this as a nai. I did not like your 462 that felt like a real me thing which I pointed out lol. I also felt your lash out on Amy was not needed and a bit much but this is also nai. My townread on you really came from after all this once you calmed down, this felt like town Wisp when you called out Poison for sheeping Sloth, your view on Sloth and why he voted me making no sense this one really felt like you trying to work him out rather then agenda. You also defending Rod because a easy mislynch, saying Amy and Kpaca can be town because push not malicious on you and finally your view on kill Sloth if still alive day 3. This chain of stances felt very town you and if scum cut off a lot of potential options early.
So as you can see it was a bit of a rollercoaster for me and it may still be because possible this is in your scum range, but I think you are town here and want to work with you. My other top town apart from Amy have all pocketed me in the past, so I'm a bit scared of this happening again because I feel Amy could do it.
I made a lot of notes during my reread which is why I could do this, but did not share them because it annoys people and I don't want to be the iso guy unless asked.
Oh jeez and Jack just posted a decent-sized wall...kinda makes me want to "highlight the waffles" again.
Gives me the impression that you don't want to hunt, if that's true. What's causing you to hesitate here? I also recall being warned against trying to game the setup.
That was my impression too, but apparently not everyone agrees.
Interesting way to say "post more please".
Why do I have the feeling this is going to end up with someone massively dropping the ball?
I was kind of thinking the same thing Sloth pointed out. Discussion was inevitable so why act as if it wouldn't be? Everyone is hungry for anything to break the ice and so I understand going that route to get things started, but I still don't agree with it. With 20 players it's just unlikely you'd be targeted anyway unless you really paint a target on yourself, which he did.
As for LW it goes back into getting flips for info, being able to check interactions based on that, etc. I don't understand why you'd be so eager to assume. But my point was there could be other ways to look at it with role interactions, which will take some time to play out. I'm okay with waiting for a bit.
Oh, that wasn't a wall. I haven't started tunneling someone yet, lol
What do you expect me to do, waltz in to Day 1 and have all the answers? All we've gotten at that point was a few soft claims no one asked for in a bastard-element setup. Can't analyze it in any traditional sense, just working with what I'm given.
It would be like pulling teeth and I'm no dentist. What was the case again?
Definitely something different about Sloth this game, but I don't think it makes him scum necessarily. The self-evaluation on post count and retreat from the thread comes to mind.
Everything okay?
The way I see it, this is constantly going to be an issue. You can't blow up every time someone asks a question or votes you, because that's gonna happen a lot.
I like this post.
These are bad arguments, and you should know they're bad.
The self-awareness of "I'm growing as a player" is a weird way to post. It's not that you may be changing playstyles, it's the self-awareness of it that makes me believe it's insincere. Did you really give a lot of thought to this plan first or just kind of seize an opportunity?
I'm with you but I don't think he's gonna stop unless we actually try to lynch him.
D2 it is. I think it's a real shame because Tom could potentially add a great deal. As funny as it is I'm starting to get annoyed that he either isn't applying himself or doesn't care.
This implosion I could totally see as scum. Rodemy, you're scorching a straw man. The tone is more telling than the argument. I think you could be mad his meta read is true and you're letting it get to you.
unvote, vote Rodemy
Axel, why are you wasting so much time explaining stuff that doesn't matter!?
and my reactions are better when the cases on me are at least half-way decent
Personally I am still trying to figure out what Rodemy's plan was? I think he said something about trying to find out if the dark stuff giver, is mafia or town? which doesn't really do much for us
still pretty underwhelmed by Zion
does anyone have a w!jack game handy
##Vote: Poison Chan
https://smashboards.com/threads/oasis-mafia-over.503643/
This is my most recent one and imo one of my better scum games in the last year.
zion i'd love to hear your stance on some of the other players in this game. just like off-the-cuff thoughts
Vote: Poison Chan
@Ampharos
I meaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, meh?
on the surface its looks glorious, but my brain wants me to say wolf!Jack could more easily make that?
but I dont want to punish Jack for putting effort in, so I will continue to let him do his thing
Oasis Mafia
Color Purple Mafia
tom
==fairly confident town==
fonti
lagoon
terraine
==less confident town==
joe
sloth
rod
kpaca
jackrito
==gun to head town==
zds
==no idea and/or please post more==
killjoy
wakemeup
fuwa
tubba fett
shadowlancer
==wisp goes here==
wisp
==hmm==
axelrod
zion
==please post more, except not posting is wolfy for you==
poison
something like this, maybe
I could do that as scum not going to pretend otherwise, you know one of the key difference between my scum game and town though. Up to you if you think its something that I can fix easily or not. A large part of that depends on how bad the player base is though.
We are bringing that Purple game out lol. I'm glad we are ignoring my trash scum games, like The thing and some I can't remember.
you have meta on poison-chan?
@Jackrito
do I really know though? nope
A lot of people here think they can work me out though off only 2 games of exp and only seeing me play town they know who they are lol.
change my mind
Pretty similar to my own apart from Lagoon. I would also swap Sloth and Wisp. ZDS is not as town to me either.
what about that is villagery. I get a lot of negative feedback when I wall post so very self aware about it now. Part of the reason I stopped the giant iso walls also like mentioned before.
something something, her tone is more snippy when she is town
given I do know who they are though, particularly makes it hard to give tangible evidence unless I specifically use other games where this alt was used, and none are mafia games
I really don't know this conclusive evidence that he is referring to
probably wouldn't use it though, given my respect for him, and more so wanting to read him off the content of "this" game
as town there, you're just rattling off thoughts as they come into your head, not really cognizant of how they look, and then you go to post the whole thing and realize that the thoughts in your head comprise an entire novella of a post and you're like "ah yeah. oops"
as scum, you're having to come up with fake thoughts to fill the entirety of this post, and you're likely going to be much more cognizant of where they're coming from and how they look on the whole. as scum you're probably not caught off-guard by the final length of your post, so that particular reaction would have to be falsified to an extent, and i'm not reading yours as such.
Idk what's about because i see the link redirected me to the last post not to the post with the ping :shrug i will most probably answer later if i find it while catching up.
I will check the thread in few hours again, maybe Amy will ask again
am looking forward to hearing your catchup thoughts
I agree with Sloth who agrees with me, but I am increasingly willing to give Rod the benefit of the doubt and take him on his word when he says he is trying to improve.
Vote: Axelrod for being my other scum read.
Axel, would you mind claiming what makes your role so frustrating, in vague terms? So we can try to figure out if your lack of motivation comes from your (*****ty?) role or from your alignment.
I like KJ's vote in 669. It contrasts well with Axel's vote on Rodemy. Both were delayed, but whereas Axel's questioning of Rod wasn't doing anything in terms of determining his alignment and the vote was explicitely just a wagon vote, Killjoy's questioning of Axel was all about giving him a fair chance and the vote came as a logical conclusion to their interaction.
Axel, do you think KJ's vote is scummy? Some of the vocabulary in 680 implies so ("You seem to be trying very hard to up-play it into something more than it ever was. / And this is where I say again that I think you ought to know better.")
I'm not fond of Zionite's catch-up post for the same reasons Amy put in 709.
Zionite, isn't "quoting where things jumped out to [you]" your modus operandi in all situations? Why do you feel the need to explain what you are doing?
---
In a game of lies and deception, there is nothing strange with thinking someone who acts differently than usual is lying and deceiving. It's somewhat unfair since people do change, but it's far more unfair to ask others to treat you as a completely new person.
Furthermore, if you are making conscious efforts to change and improve, then you cannot be mad at anyone for noticing you've changed.
Because you tend to catch tells no one else is seeing, you are biased against following the majority (eg shadow vs Tubba in Matter), and you are bad at expressing what you see in convincingly logical terms.
Fix the third bit and mitigate the second and you will become a terrifying player. Change the first bit and you will become boring and dull. In the meantime, you tend to come out as a tinfoil-hatted conspiracy theorist yelling at clouds.
I liked that comment, by the way. Even if it could easily be NAI, it seemed to come from the heart and not be the result of careful self-consciousness.
I don't know. All I know is I could see scum-Axel distancing from scumdemy then bussing him after seeing the early sparks of a possible wagon, or I could see scum-Axel testing the waters with towndemy then voting him for the same reason. The town-Axel worlds are harder to imagine because he hasn't been townie yet.
#281 - Liking Killjoy for asking the same question towards Ter. Idk about putting her in townlean though.
tomsloger
#148 - I don't really plan on reading intents behind the gifs, it's just annoying, but this vote feels a little town to because Axelrod is suspicious imo.
(not sure how anyone could read his gif communication :/ )
Axelrod
#15 - I saw somewhere that someone
Oh it was Lagoonsaid this sounds like neutral claim, but due to reasons it's possible to just be an anti-town role. Though the "never actually had a chance" does bring some question.#132 - I disagree. I think Lastwhisper's claim was townier than Lagoon's.
#135 - This doesn't make sense if he thinks LW's claim was less townie than Lagoon. Unless there's like only two roles like that here and he expect them not to be of the same alignment. But then I'd expect Axelrod to view Lastwhisper as leaning scum for the claim.
kpaca
(I like that kpaca wants tomsloger to get out of that gif posting)(Ok seems like tomsloger does this often so that just seems like unproductive insistence)Lastwhisper
#143 - I have trouble believing this because I have a bias that thinks you're the kind that think things a lot. So for you not to think of Janitor is a little not believable.
Yeah, there's a limit. Looks like I gotta break my post to several posts.
#293 - Not sure how I felt about this post. On one hand, it's calling someone scum, on the other it's saying he could be town still. So wishy washy.
TerRaine
Question - Why do you see town!sloth in #61?
#202 - Feels like a stretch, but not that weird given it's Day 1.
#269 - Also feels like a stretch. What does quoting a post have to do with anything.
gooLagoon
#4 - Entrance is ok. I like how he went straight for questions that get people to discuss about things.
#20 - Yeah not a fan of the claim before everyone got around to give thoughts on whether claim should be made. It's not the claim itself that was bad, it's that he asked in #4 first which shows a want for discussion then without waiting for the discussion to happen, he claimed. Doesn't add up.
#43 - I like this questioning towards TerRaine though.
#130 - nod nod
Tubba Fett
Question -#270 - What warrants this town points though? Lastwhisper started it and wants it to stop because it's about him. So why does that give him town points?
Ampharos
(General feeling is Ampharos = town.)
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
#329 - Reasonable. I think shadow's question in #313 is decent too. I don't think opinion on whether someone should be eliminated based on their role/alignment flip or no-flip is AI.
Zionite
#121 - Not a fan of the part where he says "Possible other ways to deal with this?" to Lastwhisper. Feels off. I don't know how to explain it.
Alright, for some reason I can't post Sloth's part. It just broke.
#8 - Response to Lagoon's #4 is pretty laidback. The lack of hesistation makes me feel like it's coming from a town slot.
#47 - I like this because it's exactly what I was thinking. Lagoon answered in #51 but it doesn't really sway the needle for me.
#72 - +1 <3
#186 - +1
#224 - I kinda like that Sloth is asking all these question though this one in particular felt a little try-hard.
Just can't post links to the pages, not sure why.
Anyway, I'm tired. Note to self = next.page8
I think the chaos generated in thread would’ve suited scumLast more. It seems more like an organic situation unfolding than a play for AtE. It’s entirely possible that I’m misreading the situation but I thought it was referencing an OoG “conflict”. By trying to shut it down, it puts focus back on the game and didn’t evolve into the basis for any kind of attack.
I think that is the most I have ever seen jack post. And I also think he is town.
I’ve answered 61 at least twice
202 what does the time of the game have to do with lumping terms together that are different things. If you’re town aligned playing an anti town role you should be incredibly cognizant of differentiating between the two. D1 or D15 that doesn’t change
269 this is also explained
what an awful hot take. You are Slast Bayless now.
you seem kinda overly concerned with looking like you are refuting killjoy, for someone who doesn’t want to go down the rabbit hole with kill joy.
So let’s actually try to lynch him so he stops. It doesn’t hurt us to try.
the first real slip I've seen in a while was game 5 of Mafia Champs.
They can happen, but I rarely ever
It seems to me that Killjoy has gone into pit-bull mode. Just latching on and determined to hold forever. I think it is possible that's a Town Killjoy who really believes he's on to something, but it's also possible that's a scum Killjoy trying to emulate what he thinks his Town self would do. I haven't decided yet. His last post made no sense, and it read like he was really stretching to try and maintain his argument. I'm currently waiting to see if he actually had a point there that I somehow missed.
"Please stop this"
was not about me at all, it was about the pressure on Terry
so you are wrong there
Sloth is a mixed read for me and that is a concern. in my 2 town games with him he has being more of a easy read for me and in my top town. In our last game everyone wanted him dead, but I fought it even though he was my competing wagon and it made people scum read me more, I felt that confident in town Sloth normally.
He has some good posts the ones I have marked are 596 and 6o6.His pushs this game feel so weird to me though and way more agrro then I would expect, him to be and this is a tad off putting for me. It is possible that he has more free time, then last time and so has more conviction. I need to reread prison game and see if he was this agrro because not sure. My examples of this are saying that Terry is scum for his push on Wisp which I disagree with and felt a bit opportunistic, and his push on Rod is just copying ZDS to a degree and not the type of thing I would expect Sloth to push. Apart from that his tone and his eveulation on people seems pretty good and seems like he is working out the game. So I don't think he is clear scum but nowhere near high town for me. This is why I described him as off to me in my first semi readlist.
I feel like I have done bigger in my bad iso reviews in other pages, I'm not happy being townread so easily either.
stahp
I'm always reasonable what do you mean.
yeah what DO you mean?
gonna do this actually