Shoutout to that one time SirDerpsALot, while under heavy scrutiny, took two back-to-back hero shots hitting two town with an ITA and a dayvig within the span of two minutes
I'm going to have to do a whole write up on Tom, aren't I. And then no one will read it anyway.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
As for Tom, I feel like he hasn't contributed much of value, especially early d1 obviously, and I feel like he helped lead the DB yeet. I've also seen scum do something similar to his gifs, using only emojis to get reactions, and it worked pretty successfully. These are the main reasons, aside from general bad vibes
As for Tom, I feel like he hasn't contributed much of value, especially early d1 obviously, and I feel like he helped lead the DB yeet. I've also seen scum do something similar to his gifs, using only emojis to get reactions, and it worked pretty successfully. These are the main reasons, aside from general bad vibes
i have no idea what your username is on this forum
Starling/terraine hard unaligned
If i wasnt there from her kpaca push + looking at prison block, im fully there from her "partners wouldnt have thought to tell them" argument (which isn't a thing i think shed do to a partner, just cutting off that free avenue. And may well be canon if starling is scum)
@TerRaine "The alignment is the issue. Not the flavor and role.
Carrows are 3P in this game and they were ardent Voldemort supporters.
Bellatrix was town and was THE stan/fangirl of vold
Malfoy was town and a lil ***** who turned on Voldy to save his own ass twice.
You're trying to force flavor logic to the alignments when there's no evidence of it and in fact evidence to the contrary. Maybe some to the roles but the alignment is this issue here."
Disagree. Both are useful.
Yes..... but they were also stated to be devoted to each other to the point of incest. Of the possible teams here they would be the best candidates for a SK team.
...K?
Yes, at the end of Book 7 when his son was threatened. Hence my wondering if we're in the first War or the second, though this game would fit into either right now regardless.
I am not trying to force it to alignments, I've already said this. And given that I could and have laid out why all of these flips make sense thematically I'd say there is evidence.
I still think alignment here is much less cut and dry than yall think. We have at least three different ways to win besides Town majority and Mafia majority. We're also all playing literally the worst people who had much less intrigue in the books than the fandom would prefer. This game is uber multiball shifting of alligences and yall are trying to form a town core isn't of playing it like an actual politics game.
Tom
Rhand
Last
Rod
Amy
Lagoon
Orange
Axelrod
WMU
Starling
Joe
Triss
Terr
terr/star not a team terr/triss and joe/star less likely
I can see terr/joe pretty clearly. They each tried something to slam through starling. Would be a bit of what theyve done all game. Good bold scumplay.
Star/triss is like, the team where we all end up thinking "why did we make this so complicated?"
But they dont jam together very well
Maybe terr/joe/triss and the grownups are really annoyed...
Otherwise
Add wmu to either?
Star/triss/axel?
Terr/joe/[lagoon/orange]?
for the record, i just read through trisscar's entire iso
i'm certainly underwhelmed from a game-solving standpoint, but it's... kinda pure, i think? like it's probably fakeable, but they genuinely sounded like they believed a lot of what they were doing. sequence from earlier today regarding riddles especially struck me as such
...actually that's something that i literally just realized: scum have known about two riddles since SOD 2
reactions to wisp's flip can be analyzed as such
anyways, trisscar. i'm rolling hard not-w/w with axelrod, probably not-w/w with lagoon, and honestly probably not-w/w with starling given their exchange about flavor stuff earlier. if i add that to not-w/w with joe from his push on her, it... kinda becomes pretty hard to build teams with triss on them, actually
not to say that trisscar can't be carrow, bc she absolutely can. i think her focus on "multiball madness" and 3ps all over the place and flavor ***** could very easily come from some sort of 3p role. but i don't think this is where we go if we want to flip a wolf today, and i think that should absolutely be our goal.
i've been operating off 4 starting scum as my assumption, and i'm also pretty damn confident tubba was scum, which would make it 8/3/1/1 [obligatory "if axel's not bullshitting" disclaimer goes here]
9/2/1/1 would certainly be nice but kinda seems too good to be true? idk
maybe it just feels later in the game than we really are due to phase lengths. not really a long phase player usually. have certainly been enjoying it though!
@JoeTerry "At what point to you stop thinking someone is scum and just start thinking they are bad at this game? or vice versa"
Feel like I should be vaguely insulted or something.
@TerRaine "Scumgardium yeetiosa to Dracoling"
....+1
@Amy "i've been doing a non-zero amount of note-taking/solving outside the thread, yes "
Nice. curious to see what you end up finding.
"i don't hate the "trisscar is poisoned" theory."
Should probably note that I have received no notice saying i am poisoned, I'mma assume I would be told if so.
"- the poisoner does not exist
i find the last of these options the least likely - i can't imagine what else would be a suitable ability for the other carrow, and i still firmly believe the second anti-town kp to be coming from scum or a non-carrow 3p (probably scum)."
....huh. I mean I still feel like direct nk is possible for the other carrow, but that feels like a lot of kp if scum have two, even for this size game.
"what does the bolded mean? "
....I still can't see bolded text, you may need to point it out with something else, apologies.
"I still think alignment here is much less cut and dry than yall think. We have at least three different ways to win besides Town majority and Mafia majority. We're also all playing literally the worst people who had much less intrigue in the books than the fandom would prefer. This game is uber multiball shifting of alligences and yall are trying to form a town core isn't of playing it like an actual politics game. "
Amy is the bolded text "we have three different ways to win..."?
Cause if so I'm about ready to dive into the code behind this site and upend it. It looks like when text is italicized, the font actually makes bolding near invisible. God freaking damn it.
Oh god why is that an attachment gaaahhh this board.
Okay ANYWAY, your question:
We have town majority, scum majority, Axel's assumed Angel wincon (being his target lives I'd guess), Riddles win if left alive while no one else is, Carrows win if they're alive when no one else is ("You win when all non-Carrow players are no more."). So that's five so far, and those are the ones that we know about. Admittedly Axel could still be lying and be scum or a Carrow or what have you, but if they aren't then that is a lot of different ways for players to win.
I think it’s near impossible to get our riddle wincon. We can’t kill. And mafia knows who all the riddles are. Unless the one riddle in their team can convince his team mate(s) to leave us alone, our win is easy to stop.
I need to pull some ISO’s. My guess now is that tom is the second carrow, but I have to reread his interactions with Fulcrum.
I have some spec that Tubba will flip scum, but it would be in poor taste to expand, so you'll have to leave it at that.
@joe what did you mean by this?
I think it’s already been said by someone else so I think it’s ok at this point. I was assuming that Tubba was poisoned and that was the reason he didn’t get replaced (that would be a horrible replace in). If he WAS the poison target AND didn’t claim it then he was probably scum.
@Triss: I really tried to be gentle and it’s not just you I’m referring to. You were doing stuff that was so completely a waste of time (flavor spec) that it showed you don’t have a ton of experience. That being said I was inclined to back off you. I’m going to be so mad at myself if it turns out to be an intentional Derp ploy.
@JoeTerry
"I really tried to be gentle and it’s not just you I’m referring to. You were doing stuff that was so completely a waste of time (flavor spec) that it showed you don’t have a ton of experience. That being said I was inclined to back off you. I’m going to be so mad at myself if it turns out to be an intentional Derp ploy. "
....Yup, mildly offended. Just because I do not play the way you do, does not mean I am inexperienced, there is more than one way to play or solve these kinds of games. Rude.
Oh and I just noticed Fulcrum is the only one that got a multi paragraph answer from tom when she asked him a question.
Yeh, I think tom is Fulcrum’s partner and he was using the hunting for that partner elsewhere as a smokescreen.
I’m ok with this lynch.
All right, so, here's Tom, in as much as I can assess him.
There is more "meta" here than I normally do, but I think in this case it's particularly warranted because Tom has such a strong scum meta. Which, to be clear, is that he loves to "powerwolf."
Tom, as scum, will not vote his partners (except in extreme, they're basically dead already situations). He does not believe in "bussing" as a strategy to gain Town credibility. He will aggressively and shamelessly go after Town. Someone scoffed at me voting Tom for "wrongness", but joking aside, when he's scum that's what he is.
And I can contrast this with when he's Town, because I actually think Tom is a strong Town player. He can get things wrong, like anyone, but not like what's happening in this game.
I'm doing this in two parts, first of which is interaction with known scum, second is who he's actually voted for/pushed, and why.
We only have the one presumed (but fairly certain) scum death in Tubba, so, first thing to look at is how Tom played around Tubba, what did he say?
And very quickly you will see that Tom had nothing to say about Tubba. Basically ever. When he started to do his "rainbow" read-lists, Tubba's name would appear, as would everyone's, and more often than not, it would be hanging out down towards the bottom of the lists, but that "read" as such was never explained or commented on. It was just there. There was always someone else more suspicious to vote.
I think the first one he did was in #1487, with Tubba in the bolded "nulls." The scummiest, according to him:
Sloth/konan/zds/terr
Day 2 he did some more, though he also spent most of the time "SK hunting." Like HERE. Now Tubba is apparently close to the bottom? I guess, but certainly not a current focus. And not commented on in any respect.
In fact, I think almost literally the only time Tom has anything to say about Tubba is at #2161, where he "likes" a post of Tubba's (in which Tubba is criticizing Sloth). That's it. Despite "liking" that post, Tubba apparently remains in Tom's bottom group, unexplained, as of #2167. And at some point after that Tubba got mod-killed (also, unremarked upon by Tom, I believe), and that was that.
And I think it's more relevant the fact that Tubba, was not the same. Tubba actually voted for Tom in one of his earliest votes (to "pressure" him into stopping the gifs). This garnered zero reaction/response from Tom. And it's notable that as soon as Tom quit with the gifs, Tubba quicky up-revised his opinion on Tom.
@Tom
Now that you’re talking, can you give some context to your readslist? I kinda like some of it but I want you to say how you got there.
It's only one data point, we only have the one scum death, but the one is more or less exactly how Tom plays around his teammates.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
D1
Axel (not mafia)
joeterry (unknown. Though this feels like more of a RVS vote than anything else)
{Axel/Sloth/Teraine} - not counting this one as a "vote" for Terraine
ZDS (Town)
Konan (Town)
Sloth (Town)
wakemeup (unknown, this was the flashwagon)
Konan (Town)
D2
Sloth (Town)
Killjoy/deadbananas (Town)
D3
RIP jack/sloth/bananas/my reads
Has not voted.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@JoeTerry
"I really tried to be gentle and it’s not just you I’m referring to. You were doing stuff that was so completely a waste of time (flavor spec) that it showed you don’t have a ton of experience. That being said I was inclined to back off you. I’m going to be so mad at myself if it turns out to be an intentional Derp ploy. "
....Yup, mildly offended. Just because I do not play the way you do, does not mean I am inexperienced, there is more than one way to play or solve these kinds of games. Rude.
Sorry, Triss. I'm not trying to discourage you, but mods design games specifically so they can't be broken by flavor.
Tom also, on D2, made a conscious decision to go "SK hunting" as opposed to mafia hunting. This is suspicious for multiple reasons, including:
1) Mafia love to SK hunt. They can be honest in doing it, and it eliminates a potential threat to themselves.
2) It's a bad idea in general, as trying to hit 1 person out of a group of ~15-17 is way worse odds than trying to hit in a group of ~4.
3) Specifically to this game, given the partner SK was Fulcrum, who I think is a rather strong player, the idea you would be able to pick out her partner based on her interactions or lack thereof with said partner and zero claims or night action information, is just highly dubious.
4) It was a great way for him to spend time posting random hypotheticals that didn't do anything but distract.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
what if I really want to
Ter lock v
i intend to read it
As for Tom, I feel like he hasn't contributed much of value, especially early d1 obviously, and I feel like he helped lead the DB yeet. I've also seen scum do something similar to his gifs, using only emojis to get reactions, and it worked pretty successfully. These are the main reasons, aside from general bad vibes
you're at L-3
If i wasnt there from her kpaca push + looking at prison block, im fully there from her "partners wouldnt have thought to tell them" argument (which isn't a thing i think shed do to a partner, just cutting off that free avenue. And may well be canon if starling is scum)
Im pretty stoked about this within my poe...
trisscar
what does the bolded mean?
terr/triss and joe/star less likely
I can see terr/joe pretty clearly. They each tried something to slam through starling. Would be a bit of what theyve done all game. Good bold scumplay.
Star/triss is like, the team where we all end up thinking "why did we make this so complicated?"
But they dont jam together very well
Maybe terr/joe/triss and the grownups are really annoyed...
Otherwise
Add wmu to either?
Star/triss/axel?
Terr/joe/[lagoon/orange]?
i'm certainly underwhelmed from a game-solving standpoint, but it's... kinda pure, i think? like it's probably fakeable, but they genuinely sounded like they believed a lot of what they were doing. sequence from earlier today regarding riddles especially struck me as such
...actually that's something that i literally just realized: scum have known about two riddles since SOD 2
reactions to wisp's flip can be analyzed as such
anyways, trisscar. i'm rolling hard not-w/w with axelrod, probably not-w/w with lagoon, and honestly probably not-w/w with starling given their exchange about flavor stuff earlier. if i add that to not-w/w with joe from his push on her, it... kinda becomes pretty hard to build teams with triss on them, actually
not to say that trisscar can't be carrow, bc she absolutely can. i think her focus on "multiball madness" and 3ps all over the place and flavor ***** could very easily come from some sort of 3p role. but i don't think this is where we go if we want to flip a wolf today, and i think that should absolutely be our goal.
Tom
Rhand
Last
Rod
Amy
Lagoon
Orange
Axelrod
WMU
Starling
Joe
Triss
Terr
Rodemy should be green, but too lazy to fix
going to sleep
so lets do
9/2/1/1
or 8/3/1/1
Its in the wincon
but yes you did have that theory
gj you oh, that's on me then - i have sigs disabled, find em distracting when i'm playing mafia
i've been operating off 4 starting scum as my assumption, and i'm also pretty damn confident tubba was scum, which would make it 8/3/1/1 [obligatory "if axel's not bullshitting" disclaimer goes here]
9/2/1/1 would certainly be nice but kinda seems too good to be true? idk
maybe it just feels later in the game than we really are due to phase lengths. not really a long phase player usually. have certainly been enjoying it though!
@joe what did you mean by this?
"At what point to you stop thinking someone is scum and just start thinking they are bad at this game? or vice versa"
Feel like I should be vaguely insulted or something.
@TerRaine
"Scumgardium yeetiosa to Dracoling"
....+1
@Amy
"i've been doing a non-zero amount of note-taking/solving outside the thread, yes "
Nice. curious to see what you end up finding.
"i don't hate the "trisscar is poisoned" theory."
Should probably note that I have received no notice saying i am poisoned, I'mma assume I would be told if so.
"- the poisoner does not exist
i find the last of these options the least likely - i can't imagine what else would be a suitable ability for the other carrow, and i still firmly believe the second anti-town kp to be coming from scum or a non-carrow 3p (probably scum)."
....huh. I mean I still feel like direct nk is possible for the other carrow, but that feels like a lot of kp if scum have two, even for this size game.
"what does the bolded mean? "
....I still can't see bolded text, you may need to point it out with something else, apologies.
"I still think alignment here is much less cut and dry than yall think. We have at least three different ways to win besides Town majority and Mafia majority. We're also all playing literally the worst people who had much less intrigue in the books than the fandom would prefer. This game is uber multiball shifting of alligences and yall are trying to form a town core isn't of playing it like an actual politics game. "
Amy is the bolded text "we have three different ways to win..."?
Cause if so I'm about ready to dive into the code behind this site and upend it. It looks like when text is italicized, the font actually makes bolding near invisible. God freaking damn it.
it looks pretty good for me. might be something on your end?
also yes that's the part i'm asking about
Okay ANYWAY, your question:
We have town majority, scum majority, Axel's assumed Angel wincon (being his target lives I'd guess), Riddles win if left alive while no one else is, Carrows win if they're alive when no one else is ("You win when all non-Carrow players are no more."). So that's five so far, and those are the ones that we know about. Admittedly Axel could still be lying and be scum or a Carrow or what have you, but if they aren't then that is a lot of different ways for players to win.
i was taking "we" to mean "the village" rather than "the setup at large"
disregard
I need to pull some ISO’s. My guess now is that tom is the second carrow, but I have to reread his interactions with Fulcrum.
No worries, bad phrasing on my part.
I think mainly because neutral Axel doesn’t want Starling dead.
And as we all know the best way to reach town wincon is fret over third party wincons first.
"I really tried to be gentle and it’s not just you I’m referring to. You were doing stuff that was so completely a waste of time (flavor spec) that it showed you don’t have a ton of experience. That being said I was inclined to back off you. I’m going to be so mad at myself if it turns out to be an intentional Derp ploy. "
....Yup, mildly offended. Just because I do not play the way you do, does not mean I am inexperienced, there is more than one way to play or solve these kinds of games. Rude.
Trying to look for tom - fulcrum interactions.
What movie is this from?
@tom what did you intend to tell us with this?
Of note: he stopped the meme’ing when Fulcrum asked
Yeh, I think tom is Fulcrum’s partner and he was using the hunting for that partner elsewhere as a smokescreen.
I’m ok with this lynch.
There is more "meta" here than I normally do, but I think in this case it's particularly warranted because Tom has such a strong scum meta. Which, to be clear, is that he loves to "powerwolf."
Tom, as scum, will not vote his partners (except in extreme, they're basically dead already situations). He does not believe in "bussing" as a strategy to gain Town credibility. He will aggressively and shamelessly go after Town. Someone scoffed at me voting Tom for "wrongness", but joking aside, when he's scum that's what he is.
And I can contrast this with when he's Town, because I actually think Tom is a strong Town player. He can get things wrong, like anyone, but not like what's happening in this game.
I'm doing this in two parts, first of which is interaction with known scum, second is who he's actually voted for/pushed, and why.
We only have the one presumed (but fairly certain) scum death in Tubba, so, first thing to look at is how Tom played around Tubba, what did he say?
And very quickly you will see that Tom had nothing to say about Tubba. Basically ever. When he started to do his "rainbow" read-lists, Tubba's name would appear, as would everyone's, and more often than not, it would be hanging out down towards the bottom of the lists, but that "read" as such was never explained or commented on. It was just there. There was always someone else more suspicious to vote.
I think the first one he did was in #1487, with Tubba in the bolded "nulls." The scummiest, according to him: Day 2 he did some more, though he also spent most of the time "SK hunting." Like HERE. Now Tubba is apparently close to the bottom? I guess, but certainly not a current focus. And not commented on in any respect.
In fact, I think almost literally the only time Tom has anything to say about Tubba is at #2161, where he "likes" a post of Tubba's (in which Tubba is criticizing Sloth). That's it. Despite "liking" that post, Tubba apparently remains in Tom's bottom group, unexplained, as of #2167. And at some point after that Tubba got mod-killed (also, unremarked upon by Tom, I believe), and that was that.
And I think it's more relevant the fact that Tubba, was not the same. Tubba actually voted for Tom in one of his earliest votes (to "pressure" him into stopping the gifs). This garnered zero reaction/response from Tom. And it's notable that as soon as Tom quit with the gifs, Tubba quicky up-revised his opinion on Tom.
It's only one data point, we only have the one scum death, but the one is more or less exactly how Tom plays around his teammates.
D1
Axel (not mafia)
joeterry (unknown. Though this feels like more of a RVS vote than anything else)
{Axel/Sloth/Teraine} - not counting this one as a "vote" for Terraine
ZDS (Town)
Konan (Town)
Sloth (Town)
wakemeup (unknown, this was the flashwagon)
Konan (Town)
D2
Sloth (Town)
Killjoy/deadbananas (Town)
D3
Has not voted.
1) Mafia love to SK hunt. They can be honest in doing it, and it eliminates a potential threat to themselves.
2) It's a bad idea in general, as trying to hit 1 person out of a group of ~15-17 is way worse odds than trying to hit in a group of ~4.
3) Specifically to this game, given the partner SK was Fulcrum, who I think is a rather strong player, the idea you would be able to pick out her partner based on her interactions or lack thereof with said partner and zero claims or night action information, is just highly dubious.
4) It was a great way for him to spend time posting random hypotheticals that didn't do anything but distract.
vote Tom and to think I didn’t tunnel you at all