The Good - I'm stepping back a bit on the modkill. While still modkilled, Tubba will still be able to achieve a win.
The Bad - There are 4 people in danger of replacement or modkill due to activity issues.
The Ugly - Should there be 2 additional replacements or modkills due to activity issues, the minimum activity requirements will be lowered, but the standards of enforcement will be made stricter, and other changes may occur. You are currently able to make 14 posts over the course of the 11-day Day phase and still meet the minimum activity requirements, should you communicate reasonable notice to me of your need to go VLA. There's little to no excuse for not just telling the host that you're busy. I've even let it go retroactively multiple times this game. I'm not looking to be your parental figure standing over you making sure you fulfill your commitments.
Why don't you ignore a 'wolf' you 'caught' and keep asking about posts and whatnot?
Because again this game is a team effort. This game isn't about "yay I think found scum I win" its about "Yay I think I found scum and have to build a case to support this to others."
Alright lemme try to remember my thought process here....
My first batch of notes I was reading every post and commenting on things that caught my eye, but not actually processing much in terms of patterns because that is significantly simpler when you can lay out anything pertinent in shorter format instead.
By the second batch my focus was so trashed that I started heavily skimming, since half of the posts were arguments between multiple parties regardless and it was unpleasant as hell to read. Konan posted a few walls, I did not read them because they were walls and I wanted to get through the posts sometime before prod deadline or the next century.
I did read most of the shorter posts, or at least read enough to get the gist, of most people though, and the posts to Konan that stood out to me were looking overly aggro to a replacement player (especially considering how other replacements were treated) and Konan was showing what I felt was genuine frustration and other less pleasant emotions due to it. And no one seemed to even notice. I wasn't kidding when I told Whisper that this game looked unfun, holy crap people.
Then I get to the at the time end of the current posts, and I see the newest player getting voted off for reasons that just sound like the multiple arguments that were killing my focus and drive before, extremely fast. If a vote is fast in other versions of mafia I've played, then that means scum is likely voting it. Even if it's a bus, I'd still rather people not go along directly with a potential scum plan without careful thought.
Also in most of the variants I've played, vanilla town is inherently bad design because the player has nothing to do but discuss and vote, it's boring. Admittedly a lot of my experience is with Town of Salem and Throne of Lies recently, and both are significantly higher power floor than this, with much less time to discuss. Hence thinking that vanilla town roles here having a way to possibly gain abilities is interesting and possibly fun.
In terms of not doing things, previously mentioned lack of focus, in addition to things I cannot speak of due to rules, kept me distracted for a good while. I apologize for necessitating a prod though, that was not my intention.
Not helping is that the thread is STILL a European-mess of small time wars between different people, quite a few of which I can't or don't want to put full reads on because I can't tell if the issue is this aggro-centric playstyle, language barriers, previous games, or actual scum-logic, if not a combination of some or all at once.
Lastly, since this is likely what is tripping you up aside from the other stuff, I don't read people the same way a lot I've encountered seem to. I pay attention to different things and generally try not to bias myself initially by labelling anyone as "scummy" in general. If you want examples I can give you links to previous games, but my mind does not currently work the way people seem to want it to in order to produce read lists that look like theirs. Maybe it will one day, who knows, but that isn't the case now.
Here's issue one if I'm trying to summarize this. Trisscar is saying she skimmed through the thread, commenting on things that caught her eye, but not really "processing" anything. And by the end of it she was burned out and not even reading everything. She apparently did get enough of the "gist" to feel like Konan was getting a rough time of it from some other people, and that didn't seem justified to her.
Point one is: nothing in either of her catching up posts states this or even alludes to it in any way. She had essentially zero to say about Konan.
Then, she says when she got to the end of her catching up she's seeing this new player getting run up very quickly, and in her experience, if a vote is fast, it's usually scum driving it. So she was opposing the wagon almost on principle, without even completely understanding it, thinking that even if it was a "bus" that we shouldn't just go along with the "potential scum plan" without careful thought.
Point two is: that's nuts. This makes no sense. I mean a knee-jerk opposition to a wagon without even understanding it, and regardless of whether the target is Town or Mafia, because you assume quick votes mean it's scum-driven.
Also, something interesting to me here is, the wagon on Konan wasn't actually the quick one. Konan and ZDS were dueling wagons for quite a while, and had actually stalled out for quite a while. Konan's wagon had only just gained back some momentum - but immediately before that was a WakeMeUp wagon that came almost out of nowhere and quickly rocketed up to something like 7 votes in under 5 hours. That was the rocket wagon. Trisscar had nothing to say about that one though.
So point three is that - if this was why you were objecting to the wagon - why not say that? It actually seems easier to me for you to have said something along the lines of, "whoa people, this wagon is moving too fast, I think we should slow down and discuss it first...." If that was how you felt. Instead of attacking me for being neutral and my suggestion that a vanilla Shadow wouldn't have acted the way he did.
The rest of this post is mostly not game related with some self meta. And, I mean, could be true? But I'm pretty sure I'm never simply accepting someone's self-meta explanation with a suggestion that maybe they just don't look at things the same way I do.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
As for sloth asking about tubba....I can’t get new info from someone not doing much. He gets back Burnered cause there’s more active players to work with at the moment drawing my attention.
And since I don’t much think it matters anymore and I can’t find it in me to care....antagonized people sometimes say more than they need to. Eliciting an emotional response is telling sometimes. That’s why.
Hrm.
Just an fyi, intentionally antagonizing people for the purpose of getting them to have an negative emotional reaction is generally frowned upon as kind of a dick move – this might have been what Font was talking about when she told you to back off. And I agree?
Of relevance to the game is what you gain from emotional responses is very subjective. What emotional response would a frustrated scum have than a frustrated townie wouldn’t?
I want you to answer this because I feel like you know this is the case, so if you are saying that you don’t, then you had expectations in mind for either.
I'll scream if I was right and JT is actually font's partner.
So I reread page 4 and I’m not sure what specifically about that got me your vote on page...46. I’ll wait for you to elaborate lol.
Also...last guess: Fluff.
so sloth is attacking my read of him in matter as a strawman
Its
Probably not actually scummy, im not really engaging sloth in his area. Discrediting is about all hes got to defend himself i guess
But yeah
Thats what this post is
Yeah, that is not what a strawman argument is.
A straw man fallacy occurs when someone takes another person’s argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making.
(why is no one questioning the giant talking owls...?
Holding you accountable for the entirety of your argument is not a strawman argument.
You are correct that I am prodding you for:
Saying I lack tenacity when you already used that argument to inaccurately scumread me before.
Using the basketball analogy to compare my towngame vs my scumgame, one again, inaccurately.
Doubling-down on these when questioned.
Softly prodding other angels on occasion (why are you prodding your townread?)
And that’s it. Because that’s all you’ve given.
For a strawman fallacy, there should be more to your arguments that I’m purposefully ignoring. But there isn’t, I’ve addressed all of it as best as I’m able.
Therefore, this is not strawman.
What you did show, though, is an example of you gaslighting me, congrats.
Anyway, if you do happen to have anything more to say on me, bring it on and I’ll address it – but it won’t mean this wasn’t a bad look on you.
Otherwise go away, I’ll bury you if scum when I get the energy.
I played a high consuming game before this and i am a little air headed. Thanks for your points, i will try to answer when the night will fall to bring cooler air from outside because i had such a hot day that i can't even think.
So i will tell you my ideas in few hours or Sunday
You never answered this and you don’t seem to be being pressed on it. Please do.
There is no way he read those games through to see ZDS's meta and come with a wrong read, you are not realistic.
From Amy's wall i understood she TRs ZDS. :shrug
You didn't notice all the points i see. Why are you cherry picking my ideas?
Lol.
About the bolded: What are you saying here, exactly? It sounds like you think that he couldn’t have possibly been wrong on his read of Dork if he read the games in detail?
Is that correct?
@WMU: You're right. There, I said it. I had time to vote you... BUT I wanted to research more before I did, which I didn't have time for. So you can go ahead and vote away for me if that's your case, that I should have voted you without double checking the thread first. Sorry I told you to die before I was 100% ready to vote for you. If that's the case then check this out:
Guess who called me scum for sure and didn't vote (yes, because I was the main one pushing the ZDS lynch)?
Good lord.
Anyone that’s townreading Joe really needs to explain to me why this post isn’t raising more flags.
Regardless of your thoughts on Wake (and I don’t think they could possibly be w/w together at this point), how is this not horribly OMGUSy or massively paranoid and/or reachy?
I don’t see town having this level of paranoia.
I also note a few familiar faces - hi Jackrito/Amy and I guess also Sloth!
Sup!
Right there with you with team-drainage.
I noticed you haven’t really asked me anything of me in you catch-ups whereas your predecessor had a small fixation. Not to be too egocentric, but does that mean anything?
I would like your read on Tom in particular, given your initial interactions this game.
In particular, I'm confused how you apparently decided that info wasn't useful unless he was "on the chopping block and/or planning on getting nightkilled". To make that claim while under pressure near EoD is going to result in his lynch nearly every time, right? It's kinda hard to believe you were seriously considering "Why say it now?" enough to pull a 180 when you seem to have given no thought to "Why not say it later?"
@sloth you gave this last post a +1 - same question to you
Sorry, what is the question? Why did I think Last claiming what he did when he did was bad?
If so, it’s pretty much what Amy said: I don’t think this is info that needed to be in the game at the time, and there was no particular advantage to bringing it up then. Sure it would have looked bad if he brought it up under pressure, but that doesn’t mean it’s beneficial to Town to bring it up early game.
In fact, pretty sure it isn’t: If Last is town (and I’m assuming he is, at least, not scum), I would be surprised if his death wasn’t at least partially related to his claim. At least in a situation where he claims while being run-up, even if he gets exec, there’d be less confusion which is pro-town. And that’s actually not a guarantee on this site – claims can often overturn a lynch, even just for one phase (though presumably he’d still have been the NK so eh).
Anyway, bringing it up when he did was to no benefit, much like Lagoon’s claim of not being targeted.
(Last does to those sort of claims a lot, but he could do them as both alignments and the way he was approaching the game here wasn’t endearing him to me.)
All right, I looked at some stuff. I am not note-dumping, but I have identified a potential mafia, and at this point I am still hoping my target is town and I am not shooting myself in the foot by scum-hunting.
Feel free to ignore this, but under what circumstances would you be willing to give us more info on your target?
@Axel I don’t think Trisscar is scum. This post is an example of why: The stream of thought/half-ramble seems too natural and genuine to be fake. What are your thoughts on this?
I think a read of those games Isos with attention to details and ZDS's mindset would show Terry he is wrong, yes. Not to mention an Iso for an unknown player is just informative, not a proof for a scum read, and I can only say i have meta for players I played more than 10 games with to pull out a meta read solid enough to mention it and backing up a vote with it.
I mean, isn't that meta read like he knew ZDS will flip villager? and he said he read those games just to show how involved he is in making a read and how not guilty of the misread is he? Please correct me if i am wrong.
On the other hand, where is his meta read for me then, if he is into meta reading the players he is voting? Wisp linked a game, i could link 2 more. Just town games, but it's a start to check the way i am playing usually. He didn't even bother to ask about them.
There is no way he read those games through to see ZDS's meta and come with a wrong read, you are not realistic.
From Amy's wall i understood she TRs ZDS. :shrug
You didn't notice all the points i see. Why are you cherry picking my ideas?
1) I was scum in Prison with ZDS. I can easily see how someone could see similar tone and meta between here and there. Sometimes meta reads fail. They're not fool proof and I think it's disingenuous to claim that anyone who ****s up a meta case is auto scum or lying.
2) You asked for opinions. I'm giving them. Some of your case is weak and you had to twist like and owls head to make it a scum point.
1. You are full of understanding for Terry but you don't share the reason of your TR for him and he is not in your top town. Meta is just a part of my case.
2. You said nothing about the main reason I scum read Terry.
@Terraine, you put a lot of effort into pushing me, can you show me where is your head at rn?
Who do you have as 3 scum reads and 3 town reads would also be a good input.
My head is annoyed that it's storming and I don't get to take my walk.
Amy, Tom, Rod
WMU, Sloth, Tubba
Tubba is no more, please replace him.
Also, please explain, a sentence for each one would be enough.
Why don't you ignore a 'wolf' you 'caught' and keep asking about posts and whatnot?
Because again this game is a team effort. This game isn't about "yay I think found scum I win" its about "Yay I think I found scum and have to build a case to support this to others."
Do you think you made a case against me with the questions you asked me until now? Are you satisfied with the result?
Doesn't change the fact that your approach to meta reading is wrong. It is 100% possible to read someone's town and scum meta and still be wrong and town. Your "there's no way" makes it sounds like this is an exact science and it is not.
Amy: Tonre, content. Solid scum hunting questions
Tom: I may not agree with some of his reads but I do follow his logic
Rod: This has been covered ad nauseam
WMU: This has been covered ad nauseam
[Redacted]: I find their hunting to be surface level and disingenuous. D1 interactions with [redacted] still bother me specially since they [redacted] read [redacted]
Doesn't matter what I think of the case I made against you. A case is good if it convinces others.
All right, I looked at some stuff. I am not note-dumping, but I have identified a potential mafia, and at this point I am still hoping my target is town and I am not shooting myself in the foot by scum-hunting.
Vote: Trisscar who was Zionite.
I'll do up a "case" in a bit.
I'm confused how scumhunting could possibly be shooting yourself in the foot, in any world?
Are you still confused about this or are you caught up yet?
I'm not attempting to catch up, but at this point I would assume this is alluding to the fact that you are 3p?
Well, it's specifically because I'm an "Angel" role, which means my "win" condition is tied to the life of a particular player, who's alignment I do not know. That player must survive for me to win. If that player is Mafia, well, then I can only win with the Mafia, and scum-hunting is self-defeating.
I am still hoping, and playing as if, my target is Town though. The odds favor that at least.
this seriously ties in with Tom riddle flip and I’m tired of pretending it doesnt
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Alright lemme try to remember my thought process here....
My first batch of notes I was reading every post and commenting on things that caught my eye, but not actually processing much in terms of patterns because that is significantly simpler when you can lay out anything pertinent in shorter format instead.
By the second batch my focus was so trashed that I started heavily skimming, since half of the posts were arguments between multiple parties regardless and it was unpleasant as hell to read. Konan posted a few walls, I did not read them because they were walls and I wanted to get through the posts sometime before prod deadline or the next century.
I did read most of the shorter posts, or at least read enough to get the gist, of most people though, and the posts to Konan that stood out to me were looking overly aggro to a replacement player (especially considering how other replacements were treated) and Konan was showing what I felt was genuine frustration and other less pleasant emotions due to it. And no one seemed to even notice. I wasn't kidding when I told Whisper that this game looked unfun, holy crap people.
Then I get to the at the time end of the current posts, and I see the newest player getting voted off for reasons that just sound like the multiple arguments that were killing my focus and drive before, extremely fast. If a vote is fast in other versions of mafia I've played, then that means scum is likely voting it. Even if it's a bus, I'd still rather people not go along directly with a potential scum plan without careful thought.
Also in most of the variants I've played, vanilla town is inherently bad design because the player has nothing to do but discuss and vote, it's boring. Admittedly a lot of my experience is with Town of Salem and Throne of Lies recently, and both are significantly higher power floor than this, with much less time to discuss. Hence thinking that vanilla town roles here having a way to possibly gain abilities is interesting and possibly fun.
In terms of not doing things, previously mentioned lack of focus, in addition to things I cannot speak of due to rules, kept me distracted for a good while. I apologize for necessitating a prod though, that was not my intention.
Not helping is that the thread is STILL a European-mess of small time wars between different people, quite a few of which I can't or don't want to put full reads on because I can't tell if the issue is this aggro-centric playstyle, language barriers, previous games, or actual scum-logic, if not a combination of some or all at once.
Lastly, since this is likely what is tripping you up aside from the other stuff, I don't read people the same way a lot I've encountered seem to. I pay attention to different things and generally try not to bias myself initially by labelling anyone as "scummy" in general. If you want examples I can give you links to previous games, but my mind does not currently work the way people seem to want it to in order to produce read lists that look like theirs. Maybe it will one day, who knows, but that isn't the case now.
Here's issue one if I'm trying to summarize this. Trisscar is saying she skimmed through the thread, commenting on things that caught her eye, but not really "processing" anything. And by the end of it she was burned out and not even reading everything. She apparently did get enough of the "gist" to feel like Konan was getting a rough time of it from some other people, and that didn't seem justified to her.
Point one is: nothing in either of her catching up posts states this or even alludes to it in any way. She had essentially zero to say about Konan.
Then, she says when she got to the end of her catching up she's seeing this new player getting run up very quickly, and in her experience, if a vote is fast, it's usually scum driving it. So she was opposing the wagon almost on principle, without even completely understanding it, thinking that even if it was a "bus" that we shouldn't just go along with the "potential scum plan" without careful thought.
Point two is: that's nuts. This makes no sense. I mean a knee-jerk opposition to a wagon without even understanding it, and regardless of whether the target is Town or Mafia, because you assume quick votes mean it's scum-driven.
Also, something interesting to me here is, the wagon on Konan wasn't actually the quick one. Konan and ZDS were dueling wagons for quite a while, and had actually stalled out for quite a while. Konan's wagon had only just gained back some momentum - but immediately before that was a WakeMeUp wagon that came almost out of nowhere and quickly rocketed up to something like 7 votes in under 5 hours. That was the rocket wagon. Trisscar had nothing to say about that one though.
So point three is that - if this was why you were objecting to the wagon - why not say that? It actually seems easier to me for you to have said something along the lines of, "whoa people, this wagon is moving too fast, I think we should slow down and discuss it first...." If that was how you felt. Instead of attacking me for being neutral and my suggestion that a vanilla Shadow wouldn't have acted the way he did.
The rest of this post is mostly not game related with some self meta. And, I mean, could be true? But I'm pretty sure I'm never simply accepting someone's self-meta explanation with a suggestion that maybe they just don't look at things the same way I do.
Trisscar is Zionite right? Yeh they can be scum.
I’m pretty much sold on KJ not town and think Sloth is a hit as well.
I'm confused how scumhunting could possibly be shooting yourself in the foot, in any world?
Are you still confused about this or are you caught up yet?
I'm not attempting to catch up, but at this point I would assume this is alluding to the fact that you are 3p?
Well, it's specifically because I'm an "Angel" role, which means my "win" condition is tied to the life of a particular player, who's alignment I do not know. That player must survive for me to win. If that player is Mafia, well, then I can only win with the Mafia, and scum-hunting is self-defeating.
I am still hoping, and playing as if, my target is Town though. The odds favor that at least.
this seriously ties in with Tom riddle flip and I’m tired of pretending it doesnt
Yea but seems kinda a ****ed up win con that axel would have to protect a player in order to win that he doesn't know. In order for this to work his win con is "protect Tom Riddle. Oh you don't know who that is? Not giving you the alignment either. HAhahah **** you."
Seems more likely he's giving a player not a flavor role
Tom riddle wins if tom riddle lives. Flip unannounced.
It makes sense that anyone aligned with riddle has that win condition
Well, I'm not sure there's a point in arguing with you about it, but the Tom Riddle role apparently already has a built in redundancy to it, exactly what do you think I am if I'm not what I claimed? You think I am a Tom Riddle also?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I can't be "aligned" with Tom Riddle, but not actually be a Tom Riddle. That doesn't fit the Riddle win condition.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I am also not reading any of the WakeMeUp/TerRaine stuff right now. I am trying to stick to one target at a time.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Axelrod "Despite gaining zero interest, I'm not quite ready to abandon Trisscar. Something doesn't feel right there. I do feel like she got a bit emotional, which makes it harder to proceed though."
Feel free to ask direct questions mate.
"Point one is: nothing in either of her catching up posts states this or even alludes to it in any way. She had essentially zero to say about Konan."
In my experience, commenting on only the past record of a fight, while the fight may still be going or resolved, is neither helpful nor appreciated by those involved. I saved my feelings on the matter til the end to make sure I understood the current state of the situation.
Also commenting on a fight can often draw you into it, and I wanted to avoid "picking a side" as others might have seen it, since that would only make it worse.
"Point two is: that's nuts. This makes no sense. I mean a knee-jerk opposition to a wagon without even understanding it, and regardless of whether the target is Town or Mafia, because you assume quick votes mean it's scum-driven. "
That is literally a meta in ToS and has been for over a year. I'm surprised if scum doesn't use it in this variant, if it looks like a lynch is town approved so to speak, given the immediate nature of the lynch once voted compared to ToS.
"So point three is that - if this was why you were objecting to the wagon - why not say that? It actually seems easier to me for you to have said something along the lines of, "whoa people, this wagon is moving too fast, I think we should slow down and discuss it first...." If that was how you felt. Instead of attacking me for being neutral and my suggestion that a vanilla Shadow wouldn't have acted the way he did."
Pretty sure the start of that post you are referencing (https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/817898-voldemorts-throne-room-mafia-day-2?page=36#c1764) was my first post after the note walls, and I was agreeing with Konan on something specific they had said, and possibly extrapolating on it as well. Also this is ALSO a ToS and other variants thing, where a player gets bored or annoyed or otherwise does not care, and proceeds to cause chaos instead.
Also used to people not wanting to slow down because they feel their reads or cases are solid, and refuse to go back and rethink. It's more effective to call into question a pillar of said case or read because suddenly they actually WANT to rethink to make sure. Human psychology is weird.
...Ok I've lost a thread here what does this have to do with Shadow?
"The rest of this post is mostly not game related with some self meta. And, I mean, could be true? But I'm pretty sure I'm never simply accepting someone's self-meta explanation with a suggestion that maybe they just don't look at things the same way I do."
Would you like some previous game links? Because that is literally the easiest way to show you what I'm talking about. Granted I can understand not wanting to read through yet more text, but still.
" I can't be "aligned" with Tom Riddle, but not actually be a Tom Riddle. That doesn't fit the Riddle win condition. "
Actually you can be, since the role title is:
"Tom Riddle, ???? Riddle."
You can be something like "Nagini, ???? Riddle", since it looks like it's a creature type ala MtG.
though this does muddy it a bit, not sure if the wording here is absolute or not:
"If only Tom Riddle lives, you win. (You can still win with your alignment as normal.)"
(Also seriously why does Riddle lose if Nagini is dead if this is the case, that makes no flavorful sense at all.)
Sloth: Rhand is of the opinion that my "using the setup" at all (speculating about it, thinking about it) is scummy for me. He says this because I've said similar things in past games. I say similar because what I actually avoid doing is speculating about setup balance. "There's too many protectives claimed, they can't all be town". These are very different. I explained this to Rhand and he still seems to think it's scummy. Which is why I'm suspicious of him: he's not reevaluating. He's pushing what I view as a false narrative. He knows why his reason is too vague but he's saying it's scummy anyway.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
why are we overly focusing on Tom riddle role again and this time bringing a 3rd party into it? The way I see it is based off that role works having a 3rd party assist them also seems a bit insane. Since it appears that when one dies someone else will become them based off Wisp's flip. Also does Angel not normally take the NK for their target which clearly never happened.
Compiling data... I'm adjusting the list below as I type, so for explanations read the text below the list.
Killjoy
tomsloger
Rodemy
Axelrod Fuwa orangeandblack5
kpaca
Jackrito
Slothful
TerRaine
gooLagoon
Ampharos
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry Poison Chan Rhand Zionite Trisscar shadowlancerx Konan - Gibbon, Town Vanilla. Eliminated Day 1.
fulcrum - Alecto Carrow, SK Poisoner. Died Night 1.
Lastwhisper - Tom Riddle, ???? Riddle. Died Night 1.
ZeDorkSlipeur - Avery, Town Gravedigger. Died Night 1.
Tubba Fett - MODKILLED
Ok, so set up spec... We have 20 players... We are operating on the thought that there are two CarrowSK. I'm assuming Axel is 3P. We had 3 deaths night 1. Jack claimed the ZDS kill, which I can't not give Jack town points for. ZDS was mislynch bait for today, no way scum kills ZDS. It's possible, but not likely. Fulcrum was most likely, a scum kill. LW, I'm stumped on. We know there's another Tom Riddle now. I don't think Tom Riddle can be scum because taking two players out of what is likely a small scum pool considering all the 3rd parties. Could this be multiball? Another thought I had regarding who killed LW was that at the end of the day LW was very adamant about lynching Trisscar today (just read LW's last handful of posts of D1 to see). Could Trisscar have been threatened? Right now that's my top suspect for LW's murder. This doesn't say much about Trisscar's alignment though because LW wasn't exactly townie or scummy at the end of the day.
We can assume someone was poisoned too, but no one claimed being poisoned. Could Fulcrum have been blocked? I doubt it, unless there are two scum teams in addition to the SKs. I think Fulcrum was pretty universally town read going into N1, so only scum would RB Fulcrum, but not if they killed him also, so that means a second team would have had to RB Fulcrum, so I think someone is poisoned and knows it, but for some reason or another isn't sharing it.
Goo claims an anti-town role and asks not to be targeted, does scum do that? Not sure. I want to go back to the PGO theory, but Goo claims to not have been targeted... Day 2 Goo leaves A LOT to be desired. I'm leaning town on this but I need to see more today.
Rod, is another one that I'm gut reading town. It's mostly because he says things I'm thinking, or even in some cases says things I've said right after I said them (though I'm not 100% sure whether or not he's accidentally doing so, or straight up parroting me). I'm not 100% sold on the Dark Mark Gambit, but I'll buy it for now as a town tell. Scum, in my opinion are a lot less likely to try early Day 1 gambits. I feel like our heads are kind of in the same place at the moment.
I feel like I'm still pretty convinced on WMU and I've gone on at length about that.
Ter Raine has been a top town poster in my opinion too. Again it mostly stems from feeling like we are on the same page and the overall theme of their ISO was logic and hunting, particularly on the WMU stuff.
Amy is another one in the same category as Ter Raine. I think Amy and Fulcrum were the towniest D1 and my only hesitation with this slot right now is that they didn't get killed N1
I have some spec that Tubba will flip scum, but it would be in poor taste to expand, so you'll have to leave it at that.
Looking at that, both Amy and Ter Raine have voted both WMU and Tubba today. I'm pretty happy with this triangulation.
I've liked what I've seen from OrangeBlack so far and thought Fuwa was ok for the most part except for their vote on Konan after saying they didn't want to vote a VT asking for the Dark Mark for "Role Stuff". I'm gonna town lean on this slot for now too.
Kpaca's felt like they've had their head in the right place and I've like the pressure he's been applying, but I wasn't a fan of the Tom push. It felt like a distraction or an easy early push to look active, but most everything else Kpaca has been doing seems ok to me. I feel like Kpaca vs. OB may be TvT.
Unfortunately, I feel like one of my top town reads may end up being Fulcrum's partner, which is something I'll have to unpack tomorrow.
That leave me Tom, KJ, Rhand and Sloth to sort out, which I'll have to do later because real work for real life needs to happen. Ok, I'll have to dig into those four sometime tomorrow.
Ok so who brought up tom riddle again?
Rodemy, about Axel. Trisscar jumped on it. Hrm.
Rod, let's say you're right - is there a particular benefit to going down this train of thought now? Do you Axel should go?
I forget do you think secondary alignment is town or scum?
@Rhand, ffs, why did you say Riddle's a vanillaizer?
Also love you, dude.
Ugh. This ******* game.
It's hard to find a solid thread to follow up on - have I said that already? I may have, I just find myself thinking it a lot and it's sapping me.
I've skipped most of the Ter/WMU interaction cause it was making me fall asleep - however I'm really starting to think WMU might just be town.
With Tubba gone, I guess I just wait for his flip and see if I had something of an accurate assessment then.
Although, without him, with people showing no interest in looking deeper at Lagoon, Tom being Tom, and the other wagons holding no strong interest for me, I guess I just go with Killjoy.
...That is the least passionate statement I've ever made lol. Wth.
@Jack I've never played with an angel before, but Axel made it seem like his job was keeping him from being exec not actually eating a kill for him? Also, isn't that role you're thinking about bodyguard?
Did you not want to talk?
Ugh. This ******* game.
It's hard to find a solid thread to follow up on - have I said that already? I may have, I just find myself thinking it a lot and it's sapping me.
I've skipped most of the Ter/WMU interaction cause it was making me fall asleep - however I'm really starting to think WMU might just be town.
With Tubba gone, I guess I just wait for his flip and see if I had something of an accurate assessment then.
Although, without him, with people showing no interest in looking deeper at Lagoon, Tom being Tom, and the other wagons holding no strong interest for me, I guess I just go with Killjoy.
...That is the least passionate statement I've ever made lol. Wth.
@Jack I've never played with an angel before, but Axel made it seem like his job was keeping him from being exec not actually eating a kill for him? Also, isn't that role you're thinking about bodyguard?
Did you not want to talk?
@Joe interested in your final four assessment.
Any other comments on anything else I put in there?
@sloth youre full of *****. Most of your argument is against a game that isnt this one. Im not detangling it, and it doesnt matter anyway.
Im not using basketball to lock you as scum
Im moderately scumreading you by meta, and using basketball to explain it
And i stand by it.
...
Lol, I spent way too long making this thing. But you get your enjoyment where you can get it. ZERO regrets.
Tom, is this text-stripping or did you actually get angry here?
I'mma level with you: I am ******* tired of not understanding why you're scumreading me or how this argument is still going on what seems like such a basic concept. I'm not even going to grill you as to why you seem to care so damn much about this when I would usually expect you to shrug it off and just casually convince others.
Enough people are townreading you that I have to admit to myself I'm barking up a wrong tree and will just watch what happens. But I am tired of this conversation so let me know if you want to talk about something else.
Ugh. This ******* game.
It's hard to find a solid thread to follow up on - have I said that already? I may have, I just find myself thinking it a lot and it's sapping me.
I've skipped most of the Ter/WMU interaction cause it was making me fall asleep - however I'm really starting to think WMU might just be town.
With Tubba gone, I guess I just wait for his flip and see if I had something of an accurate assessment then.
Although, without him, with people showing no interest in looking deeper at Lagoon, Tom being Tom, and the other wagons holding no strong interest for me, I guess I just go with Killjoy.
...That is the least passionate statement I've ever made lol. Wth.
@Jack I've never played with an angel before, but Axel made it seem like his job was keeping him from being exec not actually eating a kill for him? Also, isn't that role you're thinking about bodyguard?
Did you not want to talk?
@Joe interested in your final four assessment.
Any other comments on anything else I put in there?
I feel like so many factions already kind of confirmed, specially given one with at least two members, this IS a multiball, so not sure why you're questioning it.
Trisscar killing Last based on Last's final D1 posts is based on the idea that Trisscar's partners (as scum) agreed to it. I don't really see that happening unless did some PR hunting and Last was seen as a strong PR (don't remember anything pointing in that direction?)
I guess Trisscar could be another 3p and made the kill herself.
Kinda hope note, fear-kills are boring - but it's not impossible.
At this point the only player that wouldn't have claimed poison is a scum player - and if so, they would be acting overtly scummy right now to eat the exec, since they're dead anyway...yet as we have no seen that as is clear by the ******* sluggish pace of the game, we can assume that Font was either roleblocked, or more likely, she targeted Wisp (which obviously means the other Carrow doesn't have an instant KP.)
Of course, the poisoned could be scum!Tubba, which explains his lack of effort...it's kinda been my theory, and there's no point in hiding it now.
Lagoon denied being Miller fwiw. I never heard of PGO but it sounds like one of the most likely possibilities if he is in fact town. I think he's probably scum based on his acceptance of the Konan wagon and interactions with the ZDS one.
And yes, D2 leaves a lot to be desired.
Rod's Rod.
I honestly think WMU and you might be both Town and that's ******* infuriating.
Can you speak more on TerRaine? I am having a frustrating time with her, and to be honest, I don't find her respones about her lack of content or calling basic info "insight" as the sort of deep-level thinking I would expect from her.
Sure, she's an ass, but her movements usually have meaning.
Amy :shrugs:
You call Font the towniest town in this section, with the knowledge that she's actually SK, what does that do to your Amy read?
Talked on Tubba.
My main investment on Orange is that he's actually interacting with me in what feels like a productive way, which might be coloring my perception and making me townread him.
He's part of why I'm visiting Kpaca, who I kinda just wanted to dismiss as annoying town based on d1.
I apologize for being a limp noodle. I sincerely regret that day 1 blew up to be as large as it did. My brain is so fried that I feel like I can't be bothered to follow current lines of discussion.
The catch 22 is that if I take a break, it's more nothing. If I power through it, my enagement will be shallow.
Will probably just ISO Sloth/WMU/KJ and hope I'm able to recharge overnight.
Kinda disappointed by the Tubba thing and not super optimistic it's a hit. I'm holding out hope that scum were lolpoisoned, since at this point it's that or fulcrum tried to yeet a dead person.
At this point the only player that wouldn't have claimed poison is a scum player - and if so, they would be acting overtly scummy right now to eat the exec, since they're dead anyway...
Or one of the scum team was poisoned. You keep it to yourself and even if you DO get caught by Town and lynched you do so knowing Town wasted their votes on an dead slot
My main investment on Orange is that he's actually interacting with me in what feels like a productive way, which might be coloring my perception and making me townread him.
He's part of why I'm visiting Kpaca, who I kinda just wanted to dismiss as annoying town based on d1.
At this point the only player that wouldn't have claimed poison is a scum player - and if so, they would be acting overtly scummy right now to eat the exec, since they're dead anyway...
Or one of the scum team was poisoned. You keep it to yourself and even if you DO get caught by Town and lynched you do so knowing Town wasted their votes on an dead slot
At this point the only player that wouldn't have claimed poison is a scum player - and if so, they would be acting overtly scummy right now to eat the exec, since they're dead anyway...yet as we have no seen that as is clear by the ******* sluggish pace of the game, we can assume that Font was either roleblocked, or more likely, she targeted Wisp (which obviously means the other Carrow doesn't have an instant KP.)
Of course, the poisoned could be scum!Tubba, which explains his lack of effort...it's kinda been my theory, and there's no point in hiding it now.
It's been 7 days since the Day started, so if they haven't done it yet, they're not going to.
You bringing it up early doesn't mean you're the first one to think about it, just the one to voice something that was best not mentioned if you're trying to solve the game for town: Either you're right and you notice it happening and seize on it or you're wrong and nothing changes.
I don't get what you're doing, Jacki, I clearly answered in the very section you literally quoted and then cut off. Did you seriously miss it? Are you scum?
Are you just jumping at anything remotely scummy you can pin on me?
My main investment on Orange is that he's actually interacting with me in what feels like a productive way, which might be coloring my perception and making me townread him.
He's part of why I'm visiting Kpaca, who I kinda just wanted to dismiss as annoying town based on d1.
Visiting or leaning? Guessing typo?
revisiting* sorry
Also, you leave our orphans alone.
And no I saw it but I don't agree that would be the gameplan of a poison scum. Yes they'd take the lynch since we'd be killing a deadman but only IF they were in threat of it. Otherwise they're going to push for the mislynch still. I don't think they'd go into the Day purposefully drawing it.
can you expand this post please?
The Good - I'm stepping back a bit on the modkill. While still modkilled, Tubba will still be able to achieve a win.
The Bad - There are 4 people in danger of replacement or modkill due to activity issues.
The Ugly - Should there be 2 additional replacements or modkills due to activity issues, the minimum activity requirements will be lowered, but the standards of enforcement will be made stricter, and other changes may occur. You are currently able to make 14 posts over the course of the 11-day Day phase and still meet the minimum activity requirements, should you communicate reasonable notice to me of your need to go VLA. There's little to no excuse for not just telling the host that you're busy. I've even let it go retroactively multiple times this game. I'm not looking to be your parental figure standing over you making sure you fulfill your commitments.
Because again this game is a team effort. This game isn't about "yay I think found scum I win" its about "Yay I think I found scum and have to build a case to support this to others."
Point one is: nothing in either of her catching up posts states this or even alludes to it in any way. She had essentially zero to say about Konan.
Then, she says when she got to the end of her catching up she's seeing this new player getting run up very quickly, and in her experience, if a vote is fast, it's usually scum driving it. So she was opposing the wagon almost on principle, without even completely understanding it, thinking that even if it was a "bus" that we shouldn't just go along with the "potential scum plan" without careful thought.
Point two is: that's nuts. This makes no sense. I mean a knee-jerk opposition to a wagon without even understanding it, and regardless of whether the target is Town or Mafia, because you assume quick votes mean it's scum-driven.
Also, something interesting to me here is, the wagon on Konan wasn't actually the quick one. Konan and ZDS were dueling wagons for quite a while, and had actually stalled out for quite a while. Konan's wagon had only just gained back some momentum - but immediately before that was a WakeMeUp wagon that came almost out of nowhere and quickly rocketed up to something like 7 votes in under 5 hours. That was the rocket wagon. Trisscar had nothing to say about that one though.
So point three is that - if this was why you were objecting to the wagon - why not say that? It actually seems easier to me for you to have said something along the lines of, "whoa people, this wagon is moving too fast, I think we should slow down and discuss it first...." If that was how you felt. Instead of attacking me for being neutral and my suggestion that a vanilla Shadow wouldn't have acted the way he did.
The rest of this post is mostly not game related with some self meta. And, I mean, could be true? But I'm pretty sure I'm never simply accepting someone's self-meta explanation with a suggestion that maybe they just don't look at things the same way I do.
I answered to Rodemy in P#2591.
I think a read of those games Isos with attention to details and ZDS's mindset would show Terry he is wrong, yes. Not to mention an Iso for an unknown player is just informative, not a proof for a scum read, and I can only say i have meta for players I played more than 10 games with to pull out a meta read solid enough to mention it and backing up a vote with it.
I mean, isn't that meta read like he knew ZDS will flip villager? and he said he read those games just to show how involved he is in making a read and how not guilty of the misread is he? Please correct me if i am wrong.
On the other hand, where is his meta read for me then, if he is into meta reading the players he is voting? Wisp linked a game, i could link 2 more. Just town games, but it's a start to check the way i am playing usually. He didn't even bother to ask about them.
1. You are full of understanding for Terry but you don't share the reason of your TR for him and he is not in your top town. Meta is just a part of my case.
2. You said nothing about the main reason I scum read Terry.
Tubba is no more, please replace him.
Also, please explain, a sentence for each one would be enough.
1. your opinion was not complete
2. Pardonnez-moi s'il vous plaît! please excuse me!
3. I think not :/
Do you think you made a case against me with the questions you asked me until now? Are you satisfied with the result?
Amy: Tonre, content. Solid scum hunting questions
Tom: I may not agree with some of his reads but I do follow his logic
Rod: This has been covered ad nauseam
WMU: This has been covered ad nauseam
[Redacted]: I find their hunting to be surface level and disingenuous. D1 interactions with [redacted] still bother me specially since they [redacted] read [redacted]
Doesn't matter what I think of the case I made against you. A case is good if it convinces others.
I have seen no wagon analysis that you promised yet. So there is something.
Sloth hasn’t posted anything that catches my eye.
Tom is town or scum didn’t care enough last night to do anything.
wmu or sloth. Kj because I like Tom and he pushed kj.
Orange is good
Amy is still good.
I like rhand
Will relook are jack toMorrow after flips.
Jack could be scum but I wanna see flips before I commit.
Axel is not scum
and that’s what I got.
Give me questions so I can be active.
Ugh. You guys bickering too much is making this hard to actually find scum. Let’s stick to facts please?
WMU’s vote on terry was bad. Excuses for it are not consistent with mindset.
sloth has posted nothing really solid imo.
goo could be fulcrums partner due to their chummy interactions D1.
umm what else.
terry: if wmu flips scum, I wanna see that interaction between the two again. Maybe scum scum? Good play if so.
But voting terry for those half ass reasons could be an attempt to bus And get towncred but it backfired. I’d like to see WMU’s flip so bad.
this seriously ties in with Tom riddle flip and I’m tired of pretending it doesnt
Trisscar is Zionite right? Yeh they can be scum.
I’m pretty much sold on KJ not town and think Sloth is a hit as well.
.....eehhhh. That... feels like a reach.
It makes sense that anyone aligned with riddle has that win condition
Seems more likely he's giving a player not a flavor role
"Despite gaining zero interest, I'm not quite ready to abandon Trisscar. Something doesn't feel right there. I do feel like she got a bit emotional, which makes it harder to proceed though."
Feel free to ask direct questions mate.
"Point one is: nothing in either of her catching up posts states this or even alludes to it in any way. She had essentially zero to say about Konan."
In my experience, commenting on only the past record of a fight, while the fight may still be going or resolved, is neither helpful nor appreciated by those involved. I saved my feelings on the matter til the end to make sure I understood the current state of the situation.
Also commenting on a fight can often draw you into it, and I wanted to avoid "picking a side" as others might have seen it, since that would only make it worse.
"Point two is: that's nuts. This makes no sense. I mean a knee-jerk opposition to a wagon without even understanding it, and regardless of whether the target is Town or Mafia, because you assume quick votes mean it's scum-driven. "
That is literally a meta in ToS and has been for over a year. I'm surprised if scum doesn't use it in this variant, if it looks like a lynch is town approved so to speak, given the immediate nature of the lynch once voted compared to ToS.
"So point three is that - if this was why you were objecting to the wagon - why not say that? It actually seems easier to me for you to have said something along the lines of, "whoa people, this wagon is moving too fast, I think we should slow down and discuss it first...." If that was how you felt. Instead of attacking me for being neutral and my suggestion that a vanilla Shadow wouldn't have acted the way he did."
Pretty sure the start of that post you are referencing (https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/817898-voldemorts-throne-room-mafia-day-2?page=36#c1764) was my first post after the note walls, and I was agreeing with Konan on something specific they had said, and possibly extrapolating on it as well. Also this is ALSO a ToS and other variants thing, where a player gets bored or annoyed or otherwise does not care, and proceeds to cause chaos instead.
Also used to people not wanting to slow down because they feel their reads or cases are solid, and refuse to go back and rethink. It's more effective to call into question a pillar of said case or read because suddenly they actually WANT to rethink to make sure. Human psychology is weird.
...Ok I've lost a thread here what does this have to do with Shadow?
"The rest of this post is mostly not game related with some self meta. And, I mean, could be true? But I'm pretty sure I'm never simply accepting someone's self-meta explanation with a suggestion that maybe they just don't look at things the same way I do."
Would you like some previous game links? Because that is literally the easiest way to show you what I'm talking about. Granted I can understand not wanting to read through yet more text, but still.
Actually you can be, since the role title is:
"Tom Riddle, ???? Riddle."
You can be something like "Nagini, ???? Riddle", since it looks like it's a creature type ala MtG.
though this does muddy it a bit, not sure if the wording here is absolute or not:
"If only Tom Riddle lives, you win. (You can still win with your alignment as normal.)"
(Also seriously why does Riddle lose if Nagini is dead if this is the case, that makes no flavorful sense at all.)
what do you need expanded I have no strong town read on either of you so have no issues joining those wagons if needed. They is nothing more to it.
Killjoy
tomsloger
Rodemy
Axelrod
Fuwaorangeandblack5kpaca
Jackrito
Slothful
TerRaine
gooLagoon
Ampharos
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Poison ChanRhandZioniteTrisscarshadowlancerxKonan - Gibbon, Town Vanilla. Eliminated Day 1.fulcrum - Alecto Carrow, SK Poisoner. Died Night 1.
Lastwhisper - Tom Riddle, ???? Riddle. Died Night 1.
ZeDorkSlipeur - Avery, Town Gravedigger. Died Night 1.
Tubba Fett - MODKILLED
Ok, so set up spec... We have 20 players... We are operating on the thought that there are two CarrowSK. I'm assuming Axel is 3P. We had 3 deaths night 1. Jack claimed the ZDS kill, which I can't not give Jack town points for. ZDS was mislynch bait for today, no way scum kills ZDS. It's possible, but not likely. Fulcrum was most likely, a scum kill. LW, I'm stumped on. We know there's another Tom Riddle now. I don't think Tom Riddle can be scum because taking two players out of what is likely a small scum pool considering all the 3rd parties. Could this be multiball? Another thought I had regarding who killed LW was that at the end of the day LW was very adamant about lynching Trisscar today (just read LW's last handful of posts of D1 to see). Could Trisscar have been threatened? Right now that's my top suspect for LW's murder. This doesn't say much about Trisscar's alignment though because LW wasn't exactly townie or scummy at the end of the day.
We can assume someone was poisoned too, but no one claimed being poisoned. Could Fulcrum have been blocked? I doubt it, unless there are two scum teams in addition to the SKs. I think Fulcrum was pretty universally town read going into N1, so only scum would RB Fulcrum, but not if they killed him also, so that means a second team would have had to RB Fulcrum, so I think someone is poisoned and knows it, but for some reason or another isn't sharing it.
Goo claims an anti-town role and asks not to be targeted, does scum do that? Not sure. I want to go back to the PGO theory, but Goo claims to not have been targeted... Day 2 Goo leaves A LOT to be desired. I'm leaning town on this but I need to see more today.
Rod, is another one that I'm gut reading town. It's mostly because he says things I'm thinking, or even in some cases says things I've said right after I said them (though I'm not 100% sure whether or not he's accidentally doing so, or straight up parroting me). I'm not 100% sold on the Dark Mark Gambit, but I'll buy it for now as a town tell. Scum, in my opinion are a lot less likely to try early Day 1 gambits. I feel like our heads are kind of in the same place at the moment.
I feel like I'm still pretty convinced on WMU and I've gone on at length about that.
Ter Raine has been a top town poster in my opinion too. Again it mostly stems from feeling like we are on the same page and the overall theme of their ISO was logic and hunting, particularly on the WMU stuff.
Amy is another one in the same category as Ter Raine. I think Amy and Fulcrum were the towniest D1 and my only hesitation with this slot right now is that they didn't get killed N1
I have some spec that Tubba will flip scum, but it would be in poor taste to expand, so you'll have to leave it at that.
Looking at that, both Amy and Ter Raine have voted both WMU and Tubba today. I'm pretty happy with this triangulation.
I've liked what I've seen from OrangeBlack so far and thought Fuwa was ok for the most part except for their vote on Konan after saying they didn't want to vote a VT asking for the Dark Mark for "Role Stuff". I'm gonna town lean on this slot for now too.
Kpaca's felt like they've had their head in the right place and I've like the pressure he's been applying, but I wasn't a fan of the Tom push. It felt like a distraction or an easy early push to look active, but most everything else Kpaca has been doing seems ok to me. I feel like Kpaca vs. OB may be TvT.
Unfortunately, I feel like one of my top town reads may end up being Fulcrum's partner, which is something I'll have to unpack tomorrow.
That leave me Tom, KJ, Rhand and Sloth to sort out, which I'll have to do later because real work for real life needs to happen. Ok, I'll have to dig into those four sometime tomorrow.
Rodemy, about Axel. Trisscar jumped on it. Hrm.
Rod, let's say you're right - is there a particular benefit to going down this train of thought now? Do you Axel should go?
I forget do you think secondary alignment is town or scum?
@Rhand, ffs, why did you say Riddle's a vanillaizer?
Also love you, dude.
It's hard to find a solid thread to follow up on - have I said that already? I may have, I just find myself thinking it a lot and it's sapping me.
I've skipped most of the Ter/WMU interaction cause it was making me fall asleep - however I'm really starting to think WMU might just be town.
With Tubba gone, I guess I just wait for his flip and see if I had something of an accurate assessment then.
Although, without him, with people showing no interest in looking deeper at Lagoon, Tom being Tom, and the other wagons holding no strong interest for me, I guess I just go with Killjoy.
...That is the least passionate statement I've ever made lol. Wth.
@Jack I've never played with an angel before, but Axel made it seem like his job was keeping him from being exec not actually eating a kill for him? Also, isn't that role you're thinking about bodyguard?
Did you not want to talk?
@Joe interested in your final four assessment.
Lol, I spent way too long making this thing. But you get your enjoyment where you can get it. ZERO regrets.
Tom, is this text-stripping or did you actually get angry here?
I'mma level with you: I am ******* tired of not understanding why you're scumreading me or how this argument is still going on what seems like such a basic concept. I'm not even going to grill you as to why you seem to care so damn much about this when I would usually expect you to shrug it off and just casually convince others.
Enough people are townreading you that I have to admit to myself I'm barking up a wrong tree and will just watch what happens. But I am tired of this conversation so let me know if you want to talk about something else.
Trisscar killing Last based on Last's final D1 posts is based on the idea that Trisscar's partners (as scum) agreed to it. I don't really see that happening unless did some PR hunting and Last was seen as a strong PR (don't remember anything pointing in that direction?)
I guess Trisscar could be another 3p and made the kill herself.
Kinda hope note, fear-kills are boring - but it's not impossible.
At this point the only player that wouldn't have claimed poison is a scum player - and if so, they would be acting overtly scummy right now to eat the exec, since they're dead anyway...yet as we have no seen that as is clear by the ******* sluggish pace of the game, we can assume that Font was either roleblocked, or more likely, she targeted Wisp (which obviously means the other Carrow doesn't have an instant KP.)
Of course, the poisoned could be scum!Tubba, which explains his lack of effort...it's kinda been my theory, and there's no point in hiding it now.
Lagoon denied being Miller fwiw. I never heard of PGO but it sounds like one of the most likely possibilities if he is in fact town. I think he's probably scum based on his acceptance of the Konan wagon and interactions with the ZDS one.
And yes, D2 leaves a lot to be desired.
Rod's Rod.
I honestly think WMU and you might be both Town and that's ******* infuriating.
Can you speak more on TerRaine? I am having a frustrating time with her, and to be honest, I don't find her respones about her lack of content or calling basic info "insight" as the sort of deep-level thinking I would expect from her.
Sure, she's an ass, but her movements usually have meaning.
Amy :shrugs:
You call Font the towniest town in this section, with the knowledge that she's actually SK, what does that do to your Amy read?
Talked on Tubba.
My main investment on Orange is that he's actually interacting with me in what feels like a productive way, which might be coloring my perception and making me townread him.
He's part of why I'm visiting Kpaca, who I kinda just wanted to dismiss as annoying town based on d1.
The catch 22 is that if I take a break, it's more nothing. If I power through it, my enagement will be shallow.
Will probably just ISO Sloth/WMU/KJ and hope I'm able to recharge overnight.
……
…so why is it okay when YOU do it? I'm calling shenanigans for theft of intellectual property.
P.S. YOU'RE the ass. I'm a *****. Get it right.
I would be....SO much happier if we were.
I look forward to that day. It will either be the best scum game of all time or a train crash into dumpster fire filled with orphans.
Feel like the orphans need to be replaced with something else, like weeks old durians or something.
Visiting or leaning? Guessing typo?
It's. In. The. Quote.
It's been 7 days since the Day started, so if they haven't done it yet, they're not going to.
You bringing it up early doesn't mean you're the first one to think about it, just the one to voice something that was best not mentioned if you're trying to solve the game for town: Either you're right and you notice it happening and seize on it or you're wrong and nothing changes.
I don't get what you're doing, Jacki, I clearly answered in the very section you literally quoted and then cut off. Did you seriously miss it? Are you scum?
Are you just jumping at anything remotely scummy you can pin on me?
Also, you leave our orphans alone.