I am almost caught up (aka read the full game) so this is where my reads are at:
Town: Slothful, Lastwhisper, Rodemy, kpaca
Town lean: Ampharos, Jackrito, ZeDorkSlipeur
Null: The rest
Light scum: fulcrum, Tubba Fett, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Scum: gooLagoon
Let’s not argue about it anymore, it’s wine on the table. I agree with alpaca that pressure on Tom is relevant. He’s not helping town by being obtuse, and while I can understand the thoughts behind letting him do his thing for another day, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s not pro-town play. People were ready to lynch axle for not being pro-town, it’s somehow hat puzzling that those same people don’t have a similar take on Tom. Apples aren’t oranges but fruit is fruit. NegTown is NegTown. Axle resolved via pressure, I’m not against making Tom do the same.
Vote Tom
People who fake posting restrictions normally and in the meta is NAI. Sure, you can look at voting patterns but that isn't going to be a good case on the player. Voting Tom (when he was faking given I see he stopped) is a waste of time. I want to pay attention to the people who were voting Tom because it's something easy scum can just slip into and no one can really blame you for it. You get barely any info from the flip as well. Tom was going to stop because otherwise he was going to get vigged.
Let’s not argue about it anymore, it’s wine on the table. I agree with alpaca that pressure on Tom is relevant. He’s not helping town by being obtuse, and while I can understand the thoughts behind letting him do his thing for another day, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s not pro-town play. People were ready to lynch axle for not being pro-town, it’s somehow hat puzzling that those same people don’t have a similar take on Tom. Apples aren’t oranges but fruit is fruit. NegTown is NegTown. Axle resolved via pressure, I’m not against making Tom do the same.
Vote Tom
People who fake posting restrictions normally and in the meta is NAI. Sure, you can look at voting patterns but that isn't going to be a good case on the player. Voting Tom (when he was faking given I see he stopped) is a waste of time. I want to pay attention to the people who were voting Tom because it's something easy scum can just slip into and no one can really blame you for it. You get barely any info from the flip as well. Tom was going to stop because otherwise he was going to get vigged.
...
Why are you bothering to talk about this? You're lecturing Tubba instead of doing something you claim is useful (looking at the people who were voting tom).
2. Ampharos - actively hunting. Good tone
3. fulcrum - different tone
4. Slothful - tone and approach
5. Killjoy - reading the game
7. Jackrito- asking questions and hunting.
8. Rodemy - feels like... Rod
11. Fuwa - hasn’t done enough to form and opinion on
12. PoisonChan - hasn’t done enough to form and opinion on
13. xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx - hasn’t done enough to form and opinion on
14. TubbaFett - hasn’t done enough to form and opinion on
15. tomsloger - Tom being Tom
16. Lastwhisper - attitude
19. kpaca - not reading the game
17. gooLagoon - Wasn’t sure how i felt about coming out and claiming. Very WIFOMy which isn’t a tunnel I like to go down. Like I said I’m not a fan of the claim though when he acknowledges he has an antitownish role….but conflates role with Alignment in other posts. In anytime but especially a bastard one you need to keep these and two sep things in your brain.
18. Axelrod - I did not like the claim….seemed to be forced nonchalance. Toms gif set that I translated to “this was a calculate move” hits it on the head. Also don’t like that he changed the claim from one thing to another by saying no role reveal orig. and then later its no role OR alignment.
tom so mysterious
How could one possibly figure out i think terraines reads are surface level splashing except when she setup games
(In a bastard game)
I'd like more votes on Axel so he can full-claim. If he claims neutral like some people think he is, I'd like to know why he's not explicit about it, since he doesn't hesitate to complain about his chances of winning.
Him (and Rodemy) aside I don't have many negative views. I think the active posters are fine and haven't done anything I wouldn't expect or accept from town. This will change with flips and wagon analysis, but we aren't there yet. Yes, I know the irony of saying this while I'm voting claimed flipless.
If I don't double-down on Axel, my next target will probably be one of Poison (hardcore explicit lurking), Zionite (long walls to say nothing much), or maybe tom (low content even taking the fake PR into account).
@Kpaca
point me to some real reads other than
blanket statements like, "Why arent we killing this", or "Why are we letting him get away with this", "Can we Lynch this *insert angry face*"
2. Ampharos - actively hunting. Good tone
3. fulcrum - different tone
4. Slothful - tone and approach
5. Killjoy - reading the game
7. Jackrito- asking questions and hunting.
8. Rodemy - feels like... Rod
11. Fuwa - hasn’t done enough to form and opinion on
12. PoisonChan - hasn’t done enough to form and opinion on
13. xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx - hasn’t done enough to form and opinion on
14. TubbaFett - hasn’t done enough to form and opinion on
15. tomsloger - Tom being Tom
16. Lastwhisper - attitude
19. kpaca - not reading the game
17. gooLagoon - Wasn’t sure how i felt about coming out and claiming. Very WIFOMy which isn’t a tunnel I like to go down. Like I said I’m not a fan of the claim though when he acknowledges he has an antitownish role….but conflates role with Alignment in other posts. In anytime but especially a bastard one you need to keep these and two sep things in your brain.
18. Axelrod - I did not like the claim….seemed to be forced nonchalance. Toms gif set that I translated to “this was a calculate move” hits it on the head. Also don’t like that he changed the claim from one thing to another by saying no role reveal orig. and then later its no role OR alignment.
tom so mysterious
How could one possibly figure out i think terraines reads are surface level splashing except when she setup games
(In a bastard game)
@Kpaca
point me to some real reads other than
blanket statements like, "Why arent we killing this", or "Why are we letting him get away with this", "Can we Lynch this *insert angry face*"
@Tom
I can agree with the surface level stuff
I’m pretty sure I gave like three town reads and three scum reads within like the last two pages. This is about as much as I feel like anyone should be able to produce on day one.
If you can be bothered to read my posts I can’t be bothered to go back and link tbem. My iPad is dead rn and I’m not at home. GOGO GADGET PHONE POST.
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Also most of my reads usually come from blanket statements. When you seek me make blanket statements assume they are blankets of reads I guess. You don’t have to like it and I’m not Azrael or Axel or anything, but I’m like a solid B tier townie with my own play style. So there’s that.
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Also most of my reads usually come from blanket statements. When you seek me make blanket statements assume they are blankets of reads I guess. You don’t have to like it and I’m not Azrael or Axel or anything, but I’m like a solid B tier townie with my own play style. So there’s that.
would you say those blanket statements are up for interpretation but slso fairly obvious and you get annoyed when people ask you to restate them?
Hi. It's very early morning, I caught up with the thread and it turns out I have almost nothing to say at the moment that isn't about me. So I'll make this a self-defense post. (Pretend I put a silly kung fu gif here.)
First of all, I'll let you figure out which of the following mindsets is mine. Bonus points for giving your reasons, it will make future analysis easier in case I get run up anyway ( ).
a) I play Mafia to chill and have fun after (and sometimes before) work, and I am unwilling to invest a great amount of time and effort into the game. Meanwhile, between time zone differences and the high number of highly prolific posters (and the high number of players, period), I typically end up having to catch up through several pages each day, which I do by skimming because [see previous sentence]. As a result, and since I also don't have any inside knowledge to help me, my observations and reads are shallow and superficial. I'm not complaining, mind you — I'm the one refusing to play at a more than casual level, for the sake of having fun. I expect things will get better as the game goes.
b) I know exactly what I'm doing, and me going for (arguably) easy targets and making surface-level analyses is all part of some nefarious plan to manipulate the town. In fact even this very wagon is part of this plan, mwahaha!
Secondly, I can't focus my brain on both responding to stuff and figuring out the game, so I'll try to make this my last line of defense before claiming. If I'm still the main wagon by a good margin in the next 24 or so hours, I'll claim regardless of exact votecount.
---
Not-about-me interlude :
tom dropped the PR, but somehow he had more content when he was only posting gifs.
---
Back to me :
Lagoon, I'm sorry I didn't have your progression toward voting me in a corner of my mind like I did with tom. Maybe if you make more of an effort to be scummy, I'll pay you more attention.
Jackrito, last game I only tunneled you from mid-Day 3 on. Check the early game again, I was repeatedly casting doubt on the case on you. But yes, once I got in tunneling mode, I tunneled you hard. If I didn't tend to tunnel I wouldn't need to go out of my way to give people a chance.
Regarding tom, I am not voting him for his fake PR or for not giving reasons. He did give reasons, I even went and provided my interpretation of them. Don't put words into my mouth.
Sloth, I don't remember Zionite complaining about a lack of content this game (unlike he did in Prison IIRC), even though he very well could since we are moving closer to the deadline and I'm the only real wagons (for weak though understandable reasons).
Regarding the rest of your questions/comments in 1121: not answering, ok, I'm not implying you didn't have clear opinions before, (see above), no comment, see above.
Following up on this, why didn't you care to go back and look for that reasoning after Lagoon brought it to your attention? Wouldn't finding the first part of the push against help you understand everyone else's votes?
Too much effort and I vaguely remember being fine with it anyway.
You never treated me that way last game. You just thought I was scum the entire game and gave me no chance to prove myself.
I only tunneled you from mid-Day 3 on. Check the early game again, I was repeatedly casting doubt on the case on you. But yes, once I got in tunneling mode, I tunneled you hard. If I didn't tend to tunnel I wouldn't need to go out of my way to give people a chance.
ya I am not interesting in lynching that, can't even say I am particularly fond of my vote on Sloth since he is top posting, even though I believe his pushes are wrong
don't really no where we can consolidate atm
anyways I am going to sleep
I think you and I have a very different definition of set up gaming Tom. Both those issue had to do with player actions that did not line up with what they were saying or changed over time. It wasn't about trying to guess any kind of set up.
I'm not retreating. I think it's matters plenty to push a player who was not doing anything other than tunneling one individual and refusing to consider what his own town reads are telling him.
First of all, I'll let you figure out which of the following mindsets is mine. Bonus points for giving your reasons, it will make future analysis easier in case I get run up anyway ( ).
a) I play Mafia to chill and have fun after (and sometimes before) work, and I am unwilling to invest a great amount of time and effort into the game. Meanwhile, between time zone differences and the high number of highly prolific posters (and the high number of players, period), I typically end up having to catch up through several pages each day, which I do by skimming because [see previous sentence]. As a result, and since I also don't have any inside knowledge to help me, my observations and reads are shallow and superficial. I'm not complaining, mind you — I'm the one refusing to play at a more than casual level, for the sake of having fun. I expect things will get better as the game goes.
b) I know exactly what I'm doing, and me going for (arguably) easy targets and making surface-level analyses is all part of some nefarious plan to manipulate the town. In fact even this very wagon is part of this plan, mwahaha!
Do not like this. Silly to think its one or the other.
I think you and I have a very different definition of set up gaming Tom. Both those issue had to do with player actions that did not line up with what they were saying or changed over time. It wasn't about trying to guess any kind of set up.
I'm not retreating. I think it's matters plenty to push a player who was not doing anything other than tunneling one individual and refusing to consider what his own town reads are telling him.
you think kpaca talking about me and lagoon/axel talking about their own claims is the best path to solving this game?
eyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
I could see myself maybe voting Lagoon, solely because of his shade on the tubba slot
@Konan
what's your case on the slot?
--As you'll see from my catch up. I started having bad feelings about Goo first of all when meta came up. They quickly tried to dismiss it by claiming they were going to lurk day 1. An easy excuse to avoid said meta
--The 2 main pushes they've made are on Rod and ZDS. Now, ZDS is a highly debated topic and in the case ZDS is town and at the moment I think they are Goo has one of the worst pushes you'll see. The scumread being justified by pushing Axel. However, if that was the real logic he should be scumreading other slots along with it. The next point is a bit bias but considering ful/goo have each other as hard townreads and I'm scumreading both of them the gang up on my top townread is not helpful.
If people are townreading Goo/Ful I would love to engage with you on the topic.
Let’s not argue about it anymore, it’s wine on the table. I agree with alpaca that pressure on Tom is relevant. He’s not helping town by being obtuse, and while I can understand the thoughts behind letting him do his thing for another day, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s not pro-town play. People were ready to lynch axle for not being pro-town, it’s somehow hat puzzling that those same people don’t have a similar take on Tom. Apples aren’t oranges but fruit is fruit. NegTown is NegTown. Axle resolved via pressure, I’m not against making Tom do the same.
Vote Tom
People who fake posting restrictions normally and in the meta is NAI. Sure, you can look at voting patterns but that isn't going to be a good case on the player. Voting Tom (when he was faking given I see he stopped) is a waste of time. I want to pay attention to the people who were voting Tom because it's something easy scum can just slip into and no one can really blame you for it. You get barely any info from the flip as well. Tom was going to stop because otherwise he was going to get vigged.
...
Why are you bothering to talk about this? You're lecturing Tubba instead of doing something you claim is useful (looking at the people who were voting tom).
Because I was still catching up and since I was so close to done I figured it was fine to do it with quotes.About the tom thing if you look at the 5 people who were voting him the one person I am not townreading very well on the wagon is Tubba. So yes, I was looking at the people who were voting tom already. This feels needlessly nitpicky...again.
Let’s not argue about it anymore, it’s wine on the table. I agree with alpaca that pressure on Tom is relevant. He’s not helping town by being obtuse, and while I can understand the thoughts behind letting him do his thing for another day, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s not pro-town play. People were ready to lynch axle for not being pro-town, it’s somehow hat puzzling that those same people don’t have a similar take on Tom. Apples aren’t oranges but fruit is fruit. NegTown is NegTown. Axle resolved via pressure, I’m not against making Tom do the same.
Vote Tom
People who fake posting restrictions normally and in the meta is NAI. Sure, you can look at voting patterns but that isn't going to be a good case on the player. Voting Tom (when he was faking given I see he stopped) is a waste of time. I want to pay attention to the people who were voting Tom because it's something easy scum can just slip into and no one can really blame you for it. You get barely any info from the flip as well. Tom was going to stop because otherwise he was going to get vigged.
...
Why are you bothering to talk about this? You're lecturing Tubba instead of doing something you claim is useful (looking at the people who were voting tom).
Because I was still catching up and since I was so close to done I figured it was fine to do it with quotes.About the tom thing if you look at the 5 people who were voting him the one person I am not townreading very well on the wagon is Tubba. So yes, I was looking at the people who were voting tom already. This feels needlessly nitpicky...again.
You did not answer the question.
Why did you address Tubba there? What was your purpose?
How do you feel about ZDS's push on Rod? I felt like that came from good faith.
ZDS's rod push is what had me lightly townreading him to begin with. the thoughts feel real, the conviction feels real, it just feels like a legitimate push
i do think his backing off is a bit hasty, but that was around the time that axelrod was picking up thread pressure. i can see someone from either alignment veering down that train of thought (and indeed i had doubts about the slot myself).
what i think i have to ask myself is "do i see this as a read that a wolf makes on a villager", because i have rod down as town with like 99% confidence. i think the way ZDS handles rod in the future is going to be telling in that regard - i'm not going to say how, because that would ruin the read, but it's something i plan to be looking out for
while i'm on the subject of ZDS: slips aren't real (exaggeration but you know what i mean) and i don't think ZDS guessing axel as a "desperado variant" is a scumslip in any way whatsoever. i think the most valid reason to vote here is his handling of tom; ZDS's push here is extremely level one, but it doesn't read as having the bullheadedness of kpaca's push and instead is sort of like... i think the word i wanna use here is "smarmy"? like there's an odd sort of smugness about it. i dunno, i don't like it. the thing that holds me back is that the tom read is SO level one that i almost wanna call pushing it twtbaw. if anyone can talk to me about ZDS's typical wolfgame, i think that would be enlightening wrt if that has any validity or not
the self-awareness at the beginning of his defense post is also weird. i'm not sure what i make of it alignment-wise. i think it sort of misses the point on a lot of why he's being voted? which is maybe >rand scum but veeeeery close to NAI.
i dunno, lotta mixed feelings here. i've seen both alignments play like this
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And why on the non snape reads.
You’ve played mafia enough to know how this works. Stop making me pull teeth mayne.
I would say it was probably all the votes on him when Axle claimed that made me think the pressure helped resolve him.
@Tom
Now that you’re talking, can you give some context to your readslist? I kinda like some of it but I want you to say how you got there.
Town: Slothful, Lastwhisper, Rodemy, kpaca
Town lean: Ampharos, Jackrito, ZeDorkSlipeur
Null: The rest
Light scum: fulcrum, Tubba Fett, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Scum: gooLagoon
Vote: GooLagoon
I could see myself maybe voting Lagoon, solely because of his shade on the tubba slot
@Konan
what's your case on the slot?
Bye!
Im more or less happy with my explanations for the times they are given
@tubba
What do you like?
Do either of you have actual questions or just want me to go back and translate myself?
...
Why are you bothering to talk about this? You're lecturing Tubba instead of doing something you claim is useful (looking at the people who were voting tom).
How could one possibly figure out i think terraines reads are surface level splashing except when she setup games
(In a bastard game)
What would "hiding behind a curtain sharpening his knives" even mean metaphorically?
Why. Did. You. Do. This. Ruse.
And I want you to translate your reads, yes. Once again, stop being purposefully obstinate.
Wouldnt want to be antitown now would we
Pretends these things are super obvious.
Grfoh.
point me to some real reads other than
blanket statements like, "Why arent we killing this", or "Why are we letting him get away with this", "Can we Lynch this *insert angry face*"
@Tom
I can agree with the surface level stuff
why are you lurking so hard?
I actually did not get that. My bad.
I’m pretty sure I gave like three town reads and three scum reads within like the last two pages. This is about as much as I feel like anyone should be able to produce on day one.
If you can be bothered to read my posts I can’t be bothered to go back and link tbem. My iPad is dead rn and I’m not at home. GOGO GADGET PHONE POST.
do you think this is me pushing you?
Now answer my question about the ruse.
I’d agree with Fulcrum, and Last’s positioning. Not sure about Jack yet, what’s your take there?
Why is Terraine so low? I’d place them in the middle grouping myself.
I think I got the rough gist of the gifs, just some clarity and something harder to walk back from would be nice.
I'll leave you be
First of all, I'll let you figure out which of the following mindsets is mine. Bonus points for giving your reasons, it will make future analysis easier in case I get run up anyway ( ).
a) I play Mafia to chill and have fun after (and sometimes before) work, and I am unwilling to invest a great amount of time and effort into the game. Meanwhile, between time zone differences and the high number of highly prolific posters (and the high number of players, period), I typically end up having to catch up through several pages each day, which I do by skimming because [see previous sentence]. As a result, and since I also don't have any inside knowledge to help me, my observations and reads are shallow and superficial. I'm not complaining, mind you — I'm the one refusing to play at a more than casual level, for the sake of having fun. I expect things will get better as the game goes.
b) I know exactly what I'm doing, and me going for (arguably) easy targets and making surface-level analyses is all part of some nefarious plan to manipulate the town. In fact even this very wagon is part of this plan, mwahaha!
Secondly, I can't focus my brain on both responding to stuff and figuring out the game, so I'll try to make this my last line of defense before claiming. If I'm still the main wagon by a good margin in the next 24 or so hours, I'll claim regardless of exact votecount.
---
Not-about-me interlude :
tom dropped the PR, but somehow he had more content when he was only posting gifs.
---
Back to me :
Lagoon, I'm sorry I didn't have your progression toward voting me in a corner of my mind like I did with tom. Maybe if you make more of an effort to be scummy, I'll pay you more attention.
Jackrito, last game I only tunneled you from mid-Day 3 on. Check the early game again, I was repeatedly casting doubt on the case on you. But yes, once I got in tunneling mode, I tunneled you hard. If I didn't tend to tunnel I wouldn't need to go out of my way to give people a chance.
Regarding tom, I am not voting him for his fake PR or for not giving reasons. He did give reasons, I even went and provided my interpretation of them. Don't put words into my mouth.
Sloth, I don't remember Zionite complaining about a lack of content this game (unlike he did in Prison IIRC), even though he very well could since we are moving closer to the deadline and I'm the only real wagons (for weak though understandable reasons).
Regarding the rest of your questions/comments in 1121: not answering, ok, I'm not implying you didn't have clear opinions before, (see above), no comment, see above.
Too much effort and I vaguely remember being fine with it anyway.
I only tunneled you from mid-Day 3 on. Check the early game again, I was repeatedly casting doubt on the case on you. But yes, once I got in tunneling mode, I tunneled you hard. If I didn't tend to tunnel I wouldn't need to go out of my way to give people a chance.
don't really no where we can consolidate atm
anyways I am going to sleep
that, being ZDS obviously
Last: this is a read.
Setupgaming transitioned in to *how lame kpaca is*
Answer the question
You’re welcome everyone.
I'm not retreating. I think it's matters plenty to push a player who was not doing anything other than tunneling one individual and refusing to consider what his own town reads are telling him.
Do not like this. Silly to think its one or the other.
How do you feel about ZDS's push on Rod? I felt like that came from good faith.
--The 2 main pushes they've made are on Rod and ZDS. Now, ZDS is a highly debated topic and in the case ZDS is town and at the moment I think they are Goo has one of the worst pushes you'll see. The scumread being justified by pushing Axel. However, if that was the real logic he should be scumreading other slots along with it. The next point is a bit bias but considering ful/goo have each other as hard townreads and I'm scumreading both of them the gang up on my top townread is not helpful.
If people are townreading Goo/Ful I would love to engage with you on the topic.
You did not answer the question.
Why did you address Tubba there? What was your purpose?
i do think his backing off is a bit hasty, but that was around the time that axelrod was picking up thread pressure. i can see someone from either alignment veering down that train of thought (and indeed i had doubts about the slot myself).
what i think i have to ask myself is "do i see this as a read that a wolf makes on a villager", because i have rod down as town with like 99% confidence. i think the way ZDS handles rod in the future is going to be telling in that regard - i'm not going to say how, because that would ruin the read, but it's something i plan to be looking out for
while i'm on the subject of ZDS: slips aren't real (exaggeration but you know what i mean) and i don't think ZDS guessing axel as a "desperado variant" is a scumslip in any way whatsoever. i think the most valid reason to vote here is his handling of tom; ZDS's push here is extremely level one, but it doesn't read as having the bullheadedness of kpaca's push and instead is sort of like... i think the word i wanna use here is "smarmy"? like there's an odd sort of smugness about it. i dunno, i don't like it. the thing that holds me back is that the tom read is SO level one that i almost wanna call pushing it twtbaw. if anyone can talk to me about ZDS's typical wolfgame, i think that would be enlightening wrt if that has any validity or not
the self-awareness at the beginning of his defense post is also weird. i'm not sure what i make of it alignment-wise. i think it sort of misses the point on a lot of why he's being voted? which is maybe >rand scum but veeeeery close to NAI.
i dunno, lotta mixed feelings here. i've seen both alignments play like this