What insight did you get, exactly?
To answer your unasked question, Rod acting as described in that post is exactly what seemed Town to me (where before he wasn’t) so I took note of it.
What is your read of Rod?
I didn’t answer these cause frankly they fluff and filler questions.
I tell you I wanted to understand why that one post was such a turn around moment that elicited a strong reaction…you explained it….that’s the insight.
Anyone know if Osie's games have had a Jester before?
okay this I really don't like
@TerRaine How many closed games you're in actually have Jesters? Have you played a game by osie before?
Like
The OP states "It still appears balanced and enjoyable to reviewers" and Jester is decidedly the opposite of both of those points
I don’t think any. No I have not. I assumed if there was one it wasn’t a game ending thing but a multi win con. I saw bastard elements and that’s a bastard element. Didn’t think it hurt to ask.
anyways here's what I think bothers me the most about kpaca
Out of everything he's done, throwing a townread at the slot that would eventually flip town but remaining entirely and completely uninvested in trying to convince anybody else of them being town and then turning around and saying he's just fine shouting about his pet t om read is such a classic scum move to grab credit for their reads without ever actually needing to act on them to save the townies
I also don't understand this 180 he pulled whatsoever because there was literally no progression in between the above post calling him town and the following two
He completely forgot he had been "townreading" the slot and I don't know how nobody else has noticed this
Like this is just opportunism tbh
okay two things:
1. Again with the absolutes. Just because I think ZDS is town doesn’t mean I believe this SO MUCH that I am going to stop the wagon. Day one someone is getting lynched. I am prepared to step in and yell about how we shouldn’t lynch Terry. I am that sure on that. ZDS not as much, and honestly the pressure on ZDS never seemed to be near fatal during a time where I was actively in the thread either.
B.) lolwat? I came into the game after like 4 days off and read like ten pages which changed my mind on the slot. Why is “sometimes things change and I don’t speak in the same absolutes as you” a hard thing to grasp about me playing mafia?
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....Yea I'm not reading ******* war and peace tonight with this pages of posts...half of you don't say a thing for like a week and then I need to wade through wall after wall. -_-
....Yea I'm not reading ******* war and peace tonight with this pages of posts...half of you don't say a thing for like a week and then I need to wade through wall after wall. -_-
Don’t ever complain about me not posting content again. Someone is finally asking me the right questions to get interaction and this is what we get?
SHAME ON YOU.
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Wake, may I ask you a personal thing?
How would you rate your fluency in English, assuming I'm correct in remembering that it is not your first language?
I am not fluent in english. I kind of hate i have to use it because I can't express well my thoughts and i am limited by what i know.
@Sloth
"I don’t see town having this level of paranoia."
Tbf I have that level of paranoia as a general rule myself, though it manifests as anyone being possible scum until confirmed by the mod or my own abilties.
Also Jack normally posts more than this. I suspect tiring game + other duties isn't helping though.
"...Last has been dead since Daystart.
How the hell is he first with a 30-post lead on the next highest poster?! "
Talent.
@Orange
"also wait what did lagoon claim"
A flipless role of some variety I think.
"I just replaced in and already have more/better explained townreads than you do after spending half of day 1 yelling at people"
^This though.
@Kpaca
"For the record lynching Miller day one is never a pro town action b"
Just had a game a while ago where a traitor claimed miller D1 and then said nearly nothing else. Before that I had a game where a player claimed miller as a maf and nearly won. I disagree with your statement quite heavily.
"it is important to share some of my reads so people can at least get a basic idea of some things I believe, even if they don’t know why I believe them necessarily."
This doesn't mean anything though.
Also your seeming opinion of "anything is valid as a strat in this game as long as it's my meta and it helps me to win" is offputting as hell.
@TerRaine
"I know you’re not intending to but I don’t need to be lectured on it twice when I stopped. Was I a bit antagonistic? Sure but I think you’re making a much bigger deal out of it than it was and its distracting at this point."
....No offense, but might help if you sounded more contrite about it tbh.
You were in Marbleympics, what did you expect lmao
Just because we didn't interact a ton over the course of a 48h day with 29 players doesn't mean it shouldn't have been obvious that I don't think we get anywhere without holding people's feet to the fire
Interesting on Amy, I hadn't noticed that myself in the way she was engaging you, but curious to see what she says.
re: Tom; I also am taking note of your conclusions on his approach to you, which are different from mine.
You're correct, he's hit off the gate strong and what pinged me was you noting that the two of you don't have a lot of experience together and him not being able to disprove that (that section felt like a semi-awkward stumble on his part). His bombardment of you, then, was not due to familiarity. The nature of his questions (what do you think of x and y, is hipocrisy scummy, etc.) are blanket questions that I can see town!Tom asking but the way he was approaching it seemed like he was keeping you off-balance with influx rather than figuring you out.
It definitely left me feeling you're not aligned.
I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right, but the different perceptions here are important.
re: caveat; imo Tom has been off this game, his overt focus on Riddle early D2 was alarming as it was a pointless venue that did not help town. His approach to me has been bizarre and should not be a viable approach in his eyes (and no one can convince me otherwise), and his way of "proving himself right" (I guess) about his read seem more like a foregone conclusion than an attempt to solve me. In general, his solving's not been very deep, mostly surface - admittedly, he could just not be sharing his findings, but I'm having a hard time finding and indication of something deeper.
Except for (1) his towncore, which I can kind of follow...but towncores are not extremely hard when you're scum; (2) his search for font's partner, though he's only looking at font's interactions with other players and not into the player's actions with her, which does add a level of shallowness.
Anyway, not loving him.
I mean I didn't live this but fmpov this seems kinda like you're seeing in his questions of me what you were already expecting to see
As the person on the receiving end I will fully admit that someone of either alignment could ask those questions but in this gamestate (where he is literally the only one actually pressing me for content) I just don't see much reason for scum t om to do so
Especially as he doesn't actually know me that well to be afraid of me - if by stumble you mean one of his partners flipped their ***** when I replaced in and so he's looked into me more than he "should" have, I could maybe see that, but in that case I don't think there's any good reason scum!t om would go out of his way to say he's been in more games with me than he actually has been on purpose (also why I don't think it's a pocket attempt) and even if that was an accident you'd think he'd choose to be more careful with me in that case
Eh, maybe not.
Pretty much what you've said on him has been noted by one or all of us.
D1 I had him as town/townlean (can't be bothered to check) based on his "disturbing obsession" with Tom's read. Kinda feel like scum would have dropped it at one point when most players were telling him to just shut up.
Something else that made me okay leaving him be that Day too was that once Tom had stopped the gimmick and K kept harping on on why, I flat-out asked him two questions to add more validity to his read, fully expecting he won't be able to. His answers were actually reasonable, so at least showed that he was thinking on it on a deeper level and not riding out the vague townread he was getting at the time.
Although I don't remember much of him toDay, so I'll take a look at his ISO.
I'm not sure "able to explain your single-minded reads to a vague degree of competency" is where I'm comfortable setting the bar
Wake, may I ask you a personal thing?
How would you rate your fluency in English, assuming I'm correct in remembering that it is not your first language?
I am not fluent in english. I kind of hate i have to use it because I can't express well my thoughts and i am limited by what i know.
Fair enough. May I point out that quite a few of your posts have a taunting tone to them, and I feel that is not helping your case?
this is like the third rain check I've gotten and I've been here for like three pages
I think this setup has just made a lot of us lose intrest tbh. I feel that way and just burned the hell out tbh which started during the team game but I hid it by just copying my team's reads. So atm I'm just coasting off shooting a town because it was counter wagon which has got me town read heavy, which is a bit crazy lol. I don't have scum hunting motivation which I should be as a town read for most though so just hoping something clicks soon.
For the record, I've taken a shot on town and gotten massive cred for it as scum, and at no point ever would I have thought to post "man I'm so demotivated because I'm townread because I shot town"
But considering I was pretending to have taken that shot due to being demotivated it's arguably the natural place I should have gone was it not primarily a grab for towncred (which actually allowed me to force a lynch off of the most powerful scum role and force it onto one of the most powerful town roles and then allowed the two of us to survive the rest of the game mostly unchallenged, but that's a story for another time)
@Sloth
"I don’t see town having this level of paranoia."
Tbf I have that level of paranoia as a general rule myself, though it manifests as anyone being possible scum until confirmed by the mod or my own abilties.
Also Jack normally posts more than this. I suspect tiring game + other duties isn't helping though.
"...Last has been dead since Daystart.
How the hell is he first with a 30-post lead on the next highest poster?! "
Talent.
@Orange
"also wait what did lagoon claim"
A flipless role of some variety I think.
"I just replaced in and already have more/better explained townreads than you do after spending half of day 1 yelling at people"
^This though.
@Kpaca
"For the record lynching Miller day one is never a pro town action b"
Just had a game a while ago where a traitor claimed miller D1 and then said nearly nothing else. Before that I had a game where a player claimed miller as a maf and nearly won. I disagree with your statement quite heavily.
"it is important to share some of my reads so people can at least get a basic idea of some things I believe, even if they don’t know why I believe them necessarily."
This doesn't mean anything though.
Also your seeming opinion of "anything is valid as a strat in this game as long as it's my meta and it helps me to win" is offputting as hell.
@TerRaine
"I know you’re not intending to but I don’t need to be lectured on it twice when I stopped. Was I a bit antagonistic? Sure but I think you’re making a much bigger deal out of it than it was and its distracting at this point."
....No offense, but might help if you sounded more contrite about it tbh.
I agree with pressuring a Miller eventually, but not day one. Regardless I dealt with reading last devoid of what I took to be a purposeless claim and null tell.
How does that not mean anything? Use your critical thinking cap I guess.
I’m not sure what the part about strategy means but okay.
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@Sloth i will answer at yout post (and Rodemy's) when i can be on laptop again and this will happen in more than 10 hours because now i have to work and by phone posting is really hard to answer at these walls.
@TerRaine
"I know you’re not intending to but I don’t need to be lectured on it twice when I stopped. Was I a bit antagonistic? Sure but I think you’re making a much bigger deal out of it than it was and its distracting at this point."
....No offense, but might help if you sounded more contrite about it tbh.
No offense taken but...I'm not contrite. Like I said then...people were being pretty dang sarcastic and I fired back. Fonti asked me to stop so I did. I'm not gonna feel guilty over it days later.
A.) it is important to share some of my reads so people can at least get a basic idea of some things I believe, even if they don’t know why I believe them necessarily.
C.) I mean you’re welcome to believe I’m pulling this out my ass all you want. I’m not and I have a decade of meta that backs this up. Sooooo, *shrug*. I even sorta explained a bit about my play style somewhere day one. Am I Lebron James? No; not as town. But I have sporadic all star performances.
E.). Okay, maybe. But first, why? I’m not gonna explain all of them but maybe pick one and I’ll give a sentence or two? I feel like I gave a few sentences on Terry and recently Rhand.
don't feel like I'm gonna get anywhere on B and I'm content enough with D so
A - How do you feel people not knowing why you believe what you do helps? I've seen people argue that giving reads is bad because it lets the scum know where you're at a handful of times (always thought that was dumb but I've seen it) but I don't think I see any justification for telling scum where you are at on the slots in the game but not giving the rest of the town anything to work with should you die or even should you change your mind later down the road. Making sure others can tell you are town is a really important aspect of being town and for someone going on and on about how t om's gifs were "anti-town" I'm not convinced that purposefully withholding townreads is any better
C - Okay but my issue with this statement is not helped by "I have meta to back this up" because I'm not asking about your meta I'm asking about how you see linking t om and TerRaine there as something liable to bring about positive results?
E - Again, if you're town if you get nk'd tonight and have given zero explanation of your reads, we gain literally nothing. If you're scum, not having to explain your reads is great, as it both reduces things you can get caught out on and reduces spew after you flip. Notably, if town, avoiding the appearance of both of those things is inherently something you should also be doing. I don't see any logical reason that town should be afraid to explain their reads, and especially not their townreads.
Wake, may I ask you a personal thing?
How would you rate your fluency in English, assuming I'm correct in remembering that it is not your first language?
I am not fluent in english. I kind of hate i have to use it because I can't express well my thoughts and i am limited by what i know.
Fair enough. May I point out that quite a few of your posts have a taunting tone to them, and I feel that is not helping your case?
My case? What means for you my case?
Side note, i don't play to be liked, i play to find scum.
@TerRaine
"I know you’re not intending to but I don’t need to be lectured on it twice when I stopped. Was I a bit antagonistic? Sure but I think you’re making a much bigger deal out of it than it was and its distracting at this point."
....No offense, but might help if you sounded more contrite about it tbh.
No offense taken but...I'm not contrite. Like I said then...people were being pretty dang sarcastic and I fired back. Fonti asked me to stop so I did. I'm not gonna feel guilty over it days later.
*blink* I mean fair enough, but everyone sniping at each other isn't helping.
....Yea I'm not reading ******* war and peace tonight with this pages of posts...half of you don't say a thing for like a week and then I need to wade through wall after wall. -_-
Good thing I avoid making wallposts as much as possible because I too find them painful to read
Wake, may I ask you a personal thing?
How would you rate your fluency in English, assuming I'm correct in remembering that it is not your first language?
I was wondering the same thing but thought it'd be rude to ask.
Let me ask, is not rude to say 'die scum' before being 100% certain that the player is scum isn't it?
I think is a little to late to show good manners who are not helping town in this game.
Actually until now i didn't find mafia asking me about my english level.
Also i will not answer at your wall, thanks for prooving my point about skimming those Isos of ZDS in other games and now because i had the question i'd say:
Yes; when you read through you can see the difference in an Iso from a scum mindset and town mindset. Skimming makes errors in reasoning and all you can say after is 'oops i was wrong' but meanwhile the player is prooven villager and is too late. That's really unfortunate.
@TerRaine
"I know you’re not intending to but I don’t need to be lectured on it twice when I stopped. Was I a bit antagonistic? Sure but I think you’re making a much bigger deal out of it than it was and its distracting at this point."
....No offense, but might help if you sounded more contrite about it tbh.
No offense taken but...I'm not contrite. Like I said then...people were being pretty dang sarcastic and I fired back. Fonti asked me to stop so I did. I'm not gonna feel guilty over it days later.
*blink* I mean fair enough, but everyone sniping at each other isn't helping.
Ayup. That's why I stopped and why Sloth gets a minor jab for stirring it back up again. He knows me well enough that this is far from me sniping at him
Wake, may I ask you a personal thing?
How would you rate your fluency in English, assuming I'm correct in remembering that it is not your first language?
I am not fluent in english. I kind of hate i have to use it because I can't express well my thoughts and i am limited by what i know.
Fair enough. May I point out that quite a few of your posts have a taunting tone to them, and I feel that is not helping your case?
My case? What means for you my case?
Side note, i don't play to be liked, i play to find scum.
It's a team game
If you aren't playing to get others to see your side of things, you're really doing a poor job as town
Wake, may I ask you a personal thing?
How would you rate your fluency in English, assuming I'm correct in remembering that it is not your first language?
I am not fluent in english. I kind of hate i have to use it because I can't express well my thoughts and i am limited by what i know.
Fair enough. May I point out that quite a few of your posts have a taunting tone to them, and I feel that is not helping your case?
My case? What means for you my case?
Side note, i don't play to be liked, i play to find scum.
It's a team game
If you aren't playing to get others to see your side of things, you're really doing a poor job as town
I am sorry, i still have a ton to learn to pleasantly play this game, can you confirm me you said i am town in your last sentence?
Going back to my early scum read from day one, this goes against a earlier post today where I said I was liking SLoth more, but something about him still feels off to me. I say this full in the knowledge that I did just mis kill him in another game. I just don't like his wall posts and it is killing my wim big time which is already dead, add that to him saying he has no motivation himself but still does them just feels so off to me and does not feel real. I just feel a lot of his posts look good on surface but really do nothing. I should really iso him to see if this is true or not because I could be being overly harsh and I feel bad voting him for trying a lot when I am not. but going with my gut on this to a degree for now.
I think this setup has just made a lot of us lose intrest tbh. I feel that way and just burned the hell out tbh which started during the team game but I hid it by just copying my team's reads. So atm I'm just coasting off shooting a town because it was counter wagon which has got me town read heavy, which is a bit crazy lol. I don't have scum hunting motivation which I should be as a town read for most though so just hoping something clicks soon.
To be fair, I did consider it. I haven't completely made up my mind what's more likely: if, as town, you shoot another townie and come clean (perhaps unnecessarily as of D2?) and paint a target on your back; or if, as scum, you decide to sacrifice a possible ML in order to claim and townfirm you.
Still, I'm leaning towards the town-world for small reasons.
Also, this post helps in that line of thinking. I'm also feeling that burnout - earlier I brought up your volume, but now I've realized it's most of us: We've gone from pages of content d1 to a little over 1 page d2 in ISOs.
I think we should maybe have a rule that Day phases can't last more than 5 days tops. But I digress.
Going back to my early scum read from day one, this goes against a earlier post today where I said I was liking SLoth more, but something about him still feels off to me. I say this full in the knowledge that I did just mis kill him in another game. I just don't like his wall posts and it is killing my wim big time which is already dead, add that to him saying he has no motivation himself but still does them just feels so off to me and does not feel real. I just feel a lot of his posts look good on surface but really do nothing. I should really iso him to see if this is true or not because I could be being overly harsh and I feel bad voting him for trying a lot when I am not. but going with my gut on this to a degree for now.
You misexec'd me in another game? which one?
The demotivation is real. I don't lie about feelings. The walls are my attempt to beat it back - perhaps that's why they do don't seem like they do nothing to you?
Anyway, your gut is wrong on this, and I'd be willing to talk to you about it more. I can't address vague thoughts like "feels off" or "does not feel real", so if you do end up having things you want to press me on, I'm around.
What is it with your questions this game? You never seem to just ask a question and wait for an answer. Every other question has you explaining why your asking it and its leading and weird as hell.
Truth be told I don’t know what I was expecting. I was applying a different kind of pressure to see what came of it. It didn’t lead anywhere and no one else seemed to see issue so I moved on. Your question only has an answer if I’m omniscient and know exactly how every pressure I put out there is going to be responded to.
This is the problem I come back to on this: I'm looking for meaning in your actions, and you yourself don't seem to be actually considering them before or after.
Why do this? Well, maybe there'll be some sort of response, but no expectation to what it is or intent behind it to solve the game, just "get a response"
Honestly in a later post you respond like it's stupid for me to ask after "insight" on you asking me about Rod. You say that the insight you got is my answer.
That is not what insight is. My answer is the information. The insight is what conclusions you draw based on the information.
It's the difference between putting 144 divided by 3 in the calculator and knowing the answer is 48 versus actually doing the math and understanding what the answer means and how to get there.
This is what I see lacking in your posts. It's like your doing random things with no direction and your answers show that.
Ayup. That's why I stopped and why Sloth gets a minor jab for stirring it back up again. He knows me well enough that this is far from me sniping at him
I mean I didn't live this but fmpov this seems kinda like you're seeing in his questions of me what you were already expecting to see
As the person on the receiving end I will fully admit that someone of either alignment could ask those questions but in this gamestate (where he is literally the only one actually pressing me for content) I just don't see much reason for scum t om to do so
Especially as he doesn't actually know me that well to be afraid of me - if by stumble you mean one of his partners flipped their ***** when I replaced in and so he's looked into me more than he "should" have, I could maybe see that, but in that case I don't think there's any good reason scum!t om would go out of his way to say he's been in more games with me than he actually has been on purpose (also why I don't think it's a pocket attempt) and even if that was an accident you'd think he'd choose to be more careful with me in that case
I'm not sure "able to explain your single-minded reads to a vague degree of competency" is where I'm comfortable setting the bar
Sure, but it was enough for d1. I'm trying to reconcile this ZDS-read GOTCHA post of yours about Kpaca in my mind, not sure I follow what you were trying to say. @Orange: btw, lagoon didn't exactly claim, he asked that he's not targeted at Night, citing an ability that 'cause problems if he is.
@Sloth i will answer at yout post (and Rodemy's) when i can be on laptop again and this will happen in more than 10 hours because now i have to work and by phone posting is really hard to answer at these walls.
I seriously relaxed what qualified as content during this check for the sake of not replacing/prodding 5 people. You can see the people affected by this relaxation in the spoiler (Not labeled as 4+.)
If you will be unable to contribute 2 content posts per 24 hours, please communicate as such to the host. If you do not communicate with me and then post less than 2 content posts per 24 hours, you may be replaced/modkilled without additional warning.
Speaking of which... Tubba Fett has been modkilled for repeated inactivity. Irregardless of their alignment, they can no longer win under any condition. Their role reveal will wait until a later, appropriate time.
Do not discuss circumstances surrounding modkills.
Jackrito seems to believe ZDS is mafia. Overall Jack looks very good.
Axel not with KJ
Fulrcum says “I am still happy with my Rodemy, Terry, Lagoon, Amy, Terraine town reads/coven.” Which likely means her partner is in that grouping. No KJ there though.
This is the problem I come back to on this: I'm looking for meaning in your actions, and you yourself don't seem to be actually considering them before or after.
Why do this? Well, maybe there'll be some sort of response, but no expectation to what it is or intent behind it to solve the game, just "get a response”
On D1? Yea pretty much the intent is “get a response.” It’s data fishing. Town don’t have much to go on pre flip so the game for me is collect as much data as possible. Maybe it will tell me something in the moment. Maybe it will reveal something later when I look back with more info flips and interactions with the person.
This is what I see lacking in your posts. It's like your doing random things with no direction and your answers show that.
Yup. I will fully admit I have very little in ways of direction this game. I am going with my gut and seeing where it takes me cause I’ve yet to really get anywhere when I’m town and I try to go with anything resembling structure.
Scum or Town….I do agree that I think these day phases are too long and causing burnout though
In P1605 Amy votes me, starting my wagon, Wisp votes Konan in P#1625 followed by Tom in post 1627, though Wisp switches to ZDS is post 1647.
Fulcrum votes me in P#1648 followed by Konan in post 1650.
Now my wagon have 3 votes, Amy who implied i am a better wagon in post 1637, Fulcrum and Konan.
Wisp in post 1652 makes my wagon a 4 players one and Tom comes the 5th for 'towncred', didn't find yet if he explained what that towncred means
@Tom, maybe you can give details about your P#1657.
The 6th is Killjoy in post 1658 voting with a joke, I don't understand this vote too tbh. Post 1660, Amy seized the weirdness of the quick wagon formed, but Lagoon is the 7th on my wagon in post 1661.
WMU (7) - amy, fonti, konan, last, tom, KJ, lagoon
Konan (3) - ZDS, Terr, WMU
ZDS (3) - Rodemy, JoeTerry, Jack
tom (2) - kpaca, Tubba
Sloth (1) - Fuwa
Rod (1) - Trisscar
Not voting: Axelrod, Rhand, Slothful
I almost won the popularity contest of day 1, but Wisp understood i am villager and retured to ZDS in post 1667.
Tom is backing up very quick voting Konan in the next post, a bare vote.
Amy in 1674 votes Tuba asking Wisp why am I villager.
Lagoon votes without any explanation ZDS in post 1675.
Axel votes Konan too in post 1690 followed by Jack in 1694, Fulcrum in 1695 and Wisp in 1696.
the votes now are
Lagoon comes the 9th in post 1699
Konan comes back and in post 1716 he votes ZDS, Fulcrum switches as well for ZDS, no wonder he didn't care about the lynch. Wisp goes on ZDS too in post 1721 (and i am happy i am not hosting this game) Lagoon too in 1722.
Wisp switches for Tubba in post 1732.
Jack votes Tubba in post 1739, bare vote again and with his vote the 2 wagons of Konan and ZDS are tied again, this time without Tom, and we know they are both villagers.
Axel in P#1747 shows how Konan should be the lynch from the way Shadow claimed.
Post 1748 Wisp votes Konan, followed by Axel in 1750.
post 1753, Awa votes ZDS because her town leans were voting in that wagon.
1768 Kpaca unvotes.
1782, after Konan said he can see Shadow's posts on Discord, Fulcrum votes Konan.
1792 Kpaca votes Konan too prob the 9th vote according to Awa.
1795 Fulcrum unvotes to avoid hammer
1831 Rodemy quoted a Konan post and voted Konan. 1832 Jack unvoted and the Konan wagon is at 8 P#1841.
Last votes are from Fulcrum in post 1842, Awa in 1843, Lagoon in 1847
1855 Trisscar unvoted but that was after the hammer.
The dynamic of these votes was really interesting to watch step by step and most probably without Sloth asking i would forget about Rodemy's post (used with 48h as longest DP, maximum played 5 days DP and 2 days NP) and i would still postpone to check it like this. I still have to answer at Rodemy's and Sloth's posts, btw
Things i noticed are: the intense sheeping mood of almost everyone, the read Wisp had for me, the fact Wisp was listened in that read while he was itt, the fact Konan could not defend himself and was not believed and the fact in the last big wagons no wolf was in danger.
If you really need to check this last sentence by my flip, you can do it, but don't complain i didn't tell i am villager.
I am not really expert in wagonomics and i can't figure how the movement between 3 town wagons would make someone really scum, but I have some question marks for the next vote changes and for final votes who remained until Eod:
- Tom voted me for towncredit. I asked about it, and if i missed the answer please excuse me and link it to me.
- Killjoy voted me for tomcredit, whatever this means. And dropped the vote and left. I wish to know why.
- in Konan voters Terraine didn't switch his vote at all after that vote, he was in Konan's wagon when i voted and there remained until Eod. Can i know why?
- Lagoon switched many time his votes and hammered, i think is too in your face for scum so i'd say he is most probably villager for it, but i don't really know Lagoon as player. Can you explain me this voting behaviour Lagoon?
I will let this for now and return later if i find new clues.
All what i said about Terry is not contradicted by this Eod. Just saying.
- in Konan voters Terraine didn't switch his vote at all after that vote, he was in Konan's wagon when i voted and there remained until Eod. Can i know why?
I guess my point is that I’m okay with being “old man yells at cloud right now”; while simultaneously being frustrated that more people aren’t yelling with me.
Out of everything he's done, throwing a townread at the slot that would eventually flip town but remaining entirely and completely uninvested in trying to convince anybody else of them being town and then turning around and saying he's just fine shouting about his pet t om read is such a classic scum move to grab credit for their reads without ever actually needing to act on them to save the townies
I also don't understand this 180 he pulled whatsoever because there was literally no progression in between the above post calling him town and the following two
so i guess my question is this: how do you think scum handles the evolving tom wagon if tom's scum and the tom voters are town?
Considering how little value scum tom would/had brought to the table (taking away all factors of role wifom) I wouldn’t be surprised if some went for an early bus, in fact that was my first thought but as I’ve said the only one I bring into question is tubba. So really, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are going on my wagon. Saying how scum handle a wagon without knowing who said scum are is just a guessing game.
but if you think scum aren't piling onto him, you also have to admit that they aren't defending him, either
I wouldn’t defend a slot that has brought little to the table as scum either that would look bad on a flip. If scum are defending town they’re doing it by saying lynching the gif poster is bad. However they can’t do that anymore so it gives more wiggle room.
think the way they slid onto this particular wagon, egging on kpaca's tunnel, was just kinda slimy. and that's never a w/w interaction
We can agree to disagree on this.
but everything after that seems... jumbled, and it's jumbled in a way where i can't really get myself to see what you're seeing.
Then you should be asking me more questions on what you don’t understand. You do know 2 of the votes on my wagon are empty because the reasoning has been proven wrong and they’re just sitting
you stated that tubba was the only person you were scumreading on the ZDS wagon, but ZDS is near the very bottom of my list, and townreading him is like a super spicy take in comparison to the rest of the thread. and at times it just seems like you're... not really considering the things
I feel like I can be throwing this right back at you. I’ve mulled over a lot of things in my head and yes I am not going to spam post and I keep some thoughts to myself but to say I haven’t considered things is so blatantly incorrect. Yes I get that my read is ‘spicy’ as you put it but that doesn’t stop me from having it. I have offered open discussion on my reads and if no one wants to take me on them and just vote me then truly I cannot do much. I know you are not meaning to make this offensive, but considering I read the whole front to back minus 5 pages in about 2 days and had to catch up, my weakest point in the game mind you. Sure, I could 'miss' some things. But to say I don't consider? Come on now.
Even after reading your explanation; I do not understand how your read on Tom is basically "other peoples' interactions with Tom has made me scum read Tom".
I will probably vote you when I am done rereading, I am refraining currently as for all I know you are L-1 by the time I get to page 36.
Wake, may I ask you a personal thing?
How would you rate your fluency in English, assuming I'm correct in remembering that it is not your first language?
I was wondering the same thing but thought it'd be rude to ask.
Let me ask, is not rude to say 'die scum' before being 100% certain that the player is scum isn't it?
I think is a little to late to show good manners who are not helping town in this game.
Actually until now i didn't find mafia asking me about my english level.
Also i will not answer at your wall, thanks for prooving my point about skimming those Isos of ZDS in other games and now because i had the question i'd say:
Yes; when you read through you can see the difference in an Iso from a scum mindset and town mindset. Skimming makes errors in reasoning and all you can say after is 'oops i was wrong' but meanwhile the player is prooven villager and is too late. That's really unfortunate.
"Die Scum" is game related, your English fluency is a personal thing. I don't find attacking game things rude but I do find attacking personal things rude and I'm not perfect, sometimes I'm rude (sorry LW). Meta cases are never perfect, but that was just a small part of my case against ZDS. I really don't want to get stuck on this. I need to spend some time looking at the whole game.
This is the Konan wagon that you want to avoid at the same time as the ZDS wagon that you want to look at. These are your reads of the wagon from what i can gather.
I don't want to avoid Konan's wagon. This is your interpretation. I think I explained this, i wanted to start with ZDS's wagon, not to avoid the other wagons.
That's 2 people? you think thats a scum orchestration?
How do you know it isn't scum orchestration? Do you have infos it's not? Share them in this case please.
I still can't have a read for Tom. I can't read him, and he don't talk to me, throws in my direction few questions and i don't understand all of them, so we are not really interacting.
I need to see where is going Terraine with his push on me. Amy scolded me because i didn't give a read on Terraine in day 1, but i am still oscilating my read on him and I don't really have a read.
Goo is on both. You don't wanna look at goo.. why? He would be much more interesting to you considering he was on the wagon you want to look at AND the EOD Konan wagon. Also I am on there so you have a towered on me.
So you go for terry. Who was on ZDS the entire time.
I think i can read Lagoon if we live enough to analize few flips, and he didn't move my scum meter.
Terry glued himself of ZDS's wagon, let's make him a statue...
Can i know what is villagery at Terry?
I have looked at your iso over and over and You have voted 3 people the entire game. ONE being RVS (killjoy) second being a really weird konan vote that came almost out of nowhere. and now terry because you don't want to look at the konan wagon. (which you were also on)
I don't vote very much usually, check my games, Wisp tunneled me few days in Eggs game because i didn't use the vote as town supreme weapon. Konan vote came from his reasons to vote, i explained it.
Is wrong to consider i don't want to look in Konan's wagon. Is a way of distorting my intentions, and i don't know if you are conscious about this or not.
Okay, so out of everyone on these lists, these are the people you don't want to look at because and i quote "Good luck"
- TerRaine
-tomsloger
-kpaca
-Fuwa
-Goo.
here are the people you do wanna look at:
Terry.
Goo.
Not once have you discussed goo. I don't see much looking into the wagon at all. In fact, i don't see much from you from the 2 times i read your iso.
it feels like you just straight up looked for an excuse to vote terry so you made up some back assword excuse to do it.
I was multitabling a ton. All games finished, but i am expecting few games to start. This is how i am playing, and i am working too. The peak of my cheekiness it's that i also sleep.
After i voted until the hammer i was not itt at all.
If Terry is villager, in the worst case scenario, i am wrong about him, but your last sentence makes a heavy accusation. I am honest in my push. I think you are too, so i am expecting from you to reevaluate because you are wrong about me and wrong in making the lists of ppl saying i want or not to look at them. You filled up ideas but my intention was not that.
now it's funny how you also want to look into the wagon on you.
Goo was also on that wagon.
here is your wagon, which i have yet to see an analysis from you yet:
amy, fonti, konan, last, tom, KJ, lagoon
So what exactly have you been doing besides focusing on someone who was only on ONE of the wagons you wanted to look at?
And why is lagoon not your vote right now?
Are you indirectly tunneling Lagoon here? Like i said above, I don't see Lagoon posts being bad.
I don't see the change of votes as wolfy per se, this is a thing that can be made by both AIs, and also i don't see the locked vote on someone as a towny virtue.
Your mindset doesn't seem to match your words and i really wanna know why you say you wanna :
-Look at ZDS wagon when you really just wanted to vote terry
-Avoid ZDS wagon, when in reality in your world it's a very small list of people.
-haven't said anything on your wagon yet, even though you said you would.
I did the work for you soo.. I think you are scum just trying to coast through.
vote WMU
I didn't just want to vote Terry. It happened that in the moment i said i want to check the push on ZDS that Terry insta scum read me, and I don't think this was towny from him because he didn't vote me in the same time.
I think i have to explain this, why is scummy to accuse in a violent way without voting: because you want to take thread's temperature at your sentence and see reactions, not just from the one you are accusing, but from everyone else, and check in this way where do you stay if you go and vote in that direction. One is insta voting at a revelation of someone being scum, and other is to premeditate an accusation to see the answer. Doesn't even matter my AI here, if he would not say 'die' the accusation of me being scum would not be so intense and i would start a normal interaction with Terry, and if he would vote i would ask why and the same, start an interaction.
But if one is town and want a scum read to die, all he needs to do is to vote. No vote meant for me that he knew i am villager and he didn't want to start the wagon on me. So there started my tunnel for the above reason. His Iso gave me some fuel for my tunnel so there's that.
What do you mean by avoiding ZDS wagon? I don't get this.
I am playing when i have time. I think this is valid for everyone playing FM. I didn't have time to read to make an opinion for my wagon, thank for your help.
I am coasting you say? I think if i was really coasting i would fly under the radar.
- in Konan voters Terraine didn't switch his vote at all after that vote, he was in Konan's wagon when i voted and there remained until Eod. Can i know why?
I still can't have a read for Tom. I can't read him, and he don't talk to me, throws in my direction few questions and i don't understand all of them, so we are not really interacting.
If he’s asking you questions he is talking to you. It’s on you to ask for clarification if you don’t understand the question. Basically your choosing not to interact and then saying I don’t have a read.
I need to see where is going Terraine with his push on me. Amy scolded me because i didn't give a read on Terraine in day 1, but i am still oscilating my read on him and I don't really have a read.
Her. So your read of me depends on if I think your scum or not? It’s not like I’m in total lurk mode and your reads shouldn’t depend solely on our interactions. This is the point someone was making (orange?) on this being a team game. Its anti town as hell to play like an island which is what you’re doing
You say one thing and do another. You want to look at the ZDS wagon….but say you’re not ignoring the konan….AND you want to look at your own wagon. Goo is a common link between each other these but you’re really not pushing him at all. You have wait and see a few Day and Night cycles attitude on him when according to your process his voting pattern SHOULD be a thing of concern. The very stuff you suspect Terry for is present there and you are very blasé about looking at it.
You keep asking anyone who doesn’t buy your case on Terry “Why do you town read him?” when your big defense of Good seems to be “I don't see Lagoon posts being bad.”
Why aren’t they bad?
Instead of addressing your own reads you turn it around on Rod who you seem to be town reading by accusing him of indirectly tunneling Goo….Rod’s been pretty damn up front he thinks Goo’s mafia. This is becoming a pattern any time someone challenges you instead of explaining yourself you try and turn the question on them. It's avoidance and it's scummy.
It makes it look like you don’t have answers and are making it up as you go along.
Hey fulcrum why don’t you answer my question instead of telling me to “calm down”
why are you looking for arguments for or against killjoy
Right, sorry, I'm still kind of in a weird headspace, but getting better.
Um, killjoy? Because I don't know him really well and want to call him town but don't feel comfortable with, like, commitment man so I want to rely on my other townreads to check me.
Current Killjoy reminds me of Matter Killjoy: obsessed with Axelrod, doing his own thing, not much of a presence otherwise. He doesn't give me the bad vibes he gave me in Matter (as town), but I'm also not paying as much attention so maybe that's why. Also it *feels* like he's less active, but maybe he's just being drowned by the crowd. He's in my ok pile.
I don't get why killjoy is in your ok pile, from the other things you've said about him. Like, you're saying he gave you bad vibes previously when he was town, yeah? So, wouldn't him not giving you the same vibes this game be somewhat concerning, not a reason to townread him? Same thing on him not having much of presence and the Axelrod obsession, those things aren't usually considered towny. What am I missing here?
>calls him town
>but not too town
>but actually no read
>shading zds for townreading him
Terraine, i am sorry i misgendered you, my bad, i think i did it with Konan too.
I asked for reformulation of what i didn't understood. Maybe you didn't see this?
My read on you depends on your posts. Idrc how do you read me, but i do care how are you handling the push. I never play antitown.
Why want you, like Rodemy, from me to push Lagoon, this i don't understand. If i will come to the conclusion Lagoon is scum i will say this itt. I don't need to invent a forced read made at pressure.
I still don't see from you a read of Terry, except you are annoyed at the fact I was asking for reads for him.
You keep meddling in the interactions i try to make with other players, you wanted to impose your opinions after i voted Terry, and now you are forcing ideas about Rodemy, i guess he can talk for himself, so why are you concerned about what i said about him and the answer i posted for him before he could read it and react to it?
You scum read me, i get it, now let me talk with the other players please. It makes it look like you are too concerned about me and you are quoting and talking to me to have activity instead searching for my imaginary scum mates. Why don't you ignore a 'wolf' you 'caught' and keep asking about posts and whatnot? From what i know, when you feel someone is wolf you don't trust his posts and you don't try to develop interaction to not help the wolf to share his narrative.
Your attitude towards me doesn't show you are a villager convinced I am scum.
Speaking of which... Tubba Fett has been modkilled for repeated inactivity. Irregardless of their alignment, they can no longer win under any condition. Their role reveal will wait until a later, appropriate time.
What's the appropriate time? End of day?
Despite gaining zero interest, I'm not quite ready to abandon Trisscar. Something doesn't feel right there. I do feel like she got a bit emotional, which makes it harder to proceed though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
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I didn’t answer these cause frankly they fluff and filler questions.
I tell you I wanted to understand why that one post was such a turn around moment that elicited a strong reaction…you explained it….that’s the insight.
I’ve repeated that I town read Rod so many times.
I don’t think any. No I have not. I assumed if there was one it wasn’t a game ending thing but a multi win con. I saw bastard elements and that’s a bastard element. Didn’t think it hurt to ask.
okay two things:
1. Again with the absolutes. Just because I think ZDS is town doesn’t mean I believe this SO MUCH that I am going to stop the wagon. Day one someone is getting lynched. I am prepared to step in and yell about how we shouldn’t lynch Terry. I am that sure on that. ZDS not as much, and honestly the pressure on ZDS never seemed to be near fatal during a time where I was actively in the thread either.
B.) lolwat? I came into the game after like 4 days off and read like ten pages which changed my mind on the slot. Why is “sometimes things change and I don’t speak in the same absolutes as you” a hard thing to grasp about me playing mafia?
Don’t ever complain about me not posting content again. Someone is finally asking me the right questions to get interaction and this is what we get?
SHAME ON YOU.
"I don’t see town having this level of paranoia."
Tbf I have that level of paranoia as a general rule myself, though it manifests as anyone being possible scum until confirmed by the mod or my own abilties.
Also Jack normally posts more than this. I suspect tiring game + other duties isn't helping though.
"...Last has been dead since Daystart.
How the hell is he first with a 30-post lead on the next highest poster?! "
Talent.
@Orange
"also wait what did lagoon claim"
A flipless role of some variety I think.
"I just replaced in and already have more/better explained townreads than you do after spending half of day 1 yelling at people"
^This though.
@Kpaca
"For the record lynching Miller day one is never a pro town action b"
Just had a game a while ago where a traitor claimed miller D1 and then said nearly nothing else. Before that I had a game where a player claimed miller as a maf and nearly won. I disagree with your statement quite heavily.
"it is important to share some of my reads so people can at least get a basic idea of some things I believe, even if they don’t know why I believe them necessarily."
This doesn't mean anything though.
Also your seeming opinion of "anything is valid as a strat in this game as long as it's my meta and it helps me to win" is offputting as hell.
@TerRaine
"I know you’re not intending to but I don’t need to be lectured on it twice when I stopped. Was I a bit antagonistic? Sure but I think you’re making a much bigger deal out of it than it was and its distracting at this point."
....No offense, but might help if you sounded more contrite about it tbh.
Just because we didn't interact a ton over the course of a 48h day with 29 players doesn't mean it shouldn't have been obvious that I don't think we get anywhere without holding people's feet to the fire
I mean I didn't live this but fmpov this seems kinda like you're seeing in his questions of me what you were already expecting to see
As the person on the receiving end I will fully admit that someone of either alignment could ask those questions but in this gamestate (where he is literally the only one actually pressing me for content) I just don't see much reason for scum t om to do so
Especially as he doesn't actually know me that well to be afraid of me - if by stumble you mean one of his partners flipped their ***** when I replaced in and so he's looked into me more than he "should" have, I could maybe see that, but in that case I don't think there's any good reason scum!t om would go out of his way to say he's been in more games with me than he actually has been on purpose (also why I don't think it's a pocket attempt) and even if that was an accident you'd think he'd choose to be more careful with me in that case
I'm not sure "able to explain your single-minded reads to a vague degree of competency" is where I'm comfortable setting the bar
Fair enough. May I point out that quite a few of your posts have a taunting tone to them, and I feel that is not helping your case?
For the record, I've taken a shot on town and gotten massive cred for it as scum, and at no point ever would I have thought to post "man I'm so demotivated because I'm townread because I shot town"
But considering I was pretending to have taken that shot due to being demotivated it's arguably the natural place I should have gone was it not primarily a grab for towncred (which actually allowed me to force a lynch off of the most powerful scum role and force it onto one of the most powerful town roles and then allowed the two of us to survive the rest of the game mostly unchallenged, but that's a story for another time)
So I actually really dig this
I agree with pressuring a Miller eventually, but not day one. Regardless I dealt with reading last devoid of what I took to be a purposeless claim and null tell.
How does that not mean anything? Use your critical thinking cap I guess.
I’m not sure what the part about strategy means but okay.
No offense taken but...I'm not contrite. Like I said then...people were being pretty dang sarcastic and I fired back. Fonti asked me to stop so I did. I'm not gonna feel guilty over it days later.
don't feel like I'm gonna get anywhere on B and I'm content enough with D so
A - How do you feel people not knowing why you believe what you do helps? I've seen people argue that giving reads is bad because it lets the scum know where you're at a handful of times (always thought that was dumb but I've seen it) but I don't think I see any justification for telling scum where you are at on the slots in the game but not giving the rest of the town anything to work with should you die or even should you change your mind later down the road. Making sure others can tell you are town is a really important aspect of being town and for someone going on and on about how t om's gifs were "anti-town" I'm not convinced that purposefully withholding townreads is any better
C - Okay but my issue with this statement is not helped by "I have meta to back this up" because I'm not asking about your meta I'm asking about how you see linking t om and TerRaine there as something liable to bring about positive results?
E - Again, if you're town if you get nk'd tonight and have given zero explanation of your reads, we gain literally nothing. If you're scum, not having to explain your reads is great, as it both reduces things you can get caught out on and reduces spew after you flip. Notably, if town, avoiding the appearance of both of those things is inherently something you should also be doing. I don't see any logical reason that town should be afraid to explain their reads, and especially not their townreads.
My case? What means for you my case?
Side note, i don't play to be liked, i play to find scum.
*blink* I mean fair enough, but everyone sniping at each other isn't helping.
Good thing I avoid making wallposts as much as possible because I too find them painful to read
Let me ask, is not rude to say 'die scum' before being 100% certain that the player is scum isn't it?
I think is a little to late to show good manners who are not helping town in this game.
Actually until now i didn't find mafia asking me about my english level.
Also i will not answer at your wall, thanks for prooving my point about skimming those Isos of ZDS in other games and now because i had the question i'd say:
Yes; when you read through you can see the difference in an Iso from a scum mindset and town mindset. Skimming makes errors in reasoning and all you can say after is 'oops i was wrong' but meanwhile the player is prooven villager and is too late. That's really unfortunate.
Ayup. That's why I stopped and why Sloth gets a minor jab for stirring it back up again. He knows me well enough that this is far from me sniping at him
It's a team game
If you aren't playing to get others to see your side of things, you're really doing a poor job as town
I am sorry, i still have a ton to learn to pleasantly play this game, can you confirm me you said i am town in your last sentence?
No, I'm not saying you specifically are town
I am saying that, if a general person that is town is not playing to try and work with the other players, they are playing their alignment poorly
wait a second
aren't you solo-voting me rn
I am that was more to do with your old slot though, and a lazy as hell push tbh. I have no intrest in lynching you atm so
Unvote
...You are focusing on the wrong part of that post.
Going back to my early scum read from day one, this goes against a earlier post today where I said I was liking SLoth more, but something about him still feels off to me. I say this full in the knowledge that I did just mis kill him in another game. I just don't like his wall posts and it is killing my wim big time which is already dead, add that to him saying he has no motivation himself but still does them just feels so off to me and does not feel real. I just feel a lot of his posts look good on surface but really do nothing. I should really iso him to see if this is true or not because I could be being overly harsh and I feel bad voting him for trying a lot when I am not. but going with my gut on this to a degree for now.
Also, yes, I remember the page you voted me, I'm kind of waiting for a more detailed reasoning.
To be fair, I did consider it. I haven't completely made up my mind what's more likely: if, as town, you shoot another townie and come clean (perhaps unnecessarily as of D2?) and paint a target on your back; or if, as scum, you decide to sacrifice a possible ML in order to claim and townfirm you.
Still, I'm leaning towards the town-world for small reasons.
Also, this post helps in that line of thinking. I'm also feeling that burnout - earlier I brought up your volume, but now I've realized it's most of us: We've gone from pages of content d1 to a little over 1 page d2 in ISOs.
I think we should maybe have a rule that Day phases can't last more than 5 days tops. But I digress. You misexec'd me in another game? which one?
The demotivation is real. I don't lie about feelings. The walls are my attempt to beat it back - perhaps that's why they do don't seem like they do nothing to you?
Anyway, your gut is wrong on this, and I'd be willing to talk to you about it more. I can't address vague thoughts like "feels off" or "does not feel real", so if you do end up having things you want to press me on, I'm around.
This is the problem I come back to on this: I'm looking for meaning in your actions, and you yourself don't seem to be actually considering them before or after.
Why do this? Well, maybe there'll be some sort of response, but no expectation to what it is or intent behind it to solve the game, just "get a response"
Honestly in a later post you respond like it's stupid for me to ask after "insight" on you asking me about Rod. You say that the insight you got is my answer.
That is not what insight is. My answer is the information. The insight is what conclusions you draw based on the information.
It's the difference between putting 144 divided by 3 in the calculator and knowing the answer is 48 versus actually doing the math and understanding what the answer means and how to get there.
This is what I see lacking in your posts. It's like your doing random things with no direction and your answers show that. Sloth uses BITE on Ter.
It's Super Effective!
Hm...noted. Thanks. Sure, but it was enough for d1. I'm trying to reconcile this ZDS-read GOTCHA post of yours about Kpaca in my mind, not sure I follow what you were trying to say.
@Orange: btw, lagoon didn't exactly claim, he asked that he's not targeted at Night, citing an ability that 'cause problems if he is.
Take your time.
Slothful (3) - TerRaine, gooLagoon, Jackrito
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx (3) - TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, Rodemy, kpaca
Killjoy (2) - tomsloger, Rhand
kpaca (1) - orangeandblack5
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (1) - xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx
Trisscar (1) - Axelrod
Not voting: Ampharos, Killjoy, Slothful, Trisscar
Vote History:
Slothful - Tubba Fett > (Unvote)
tomsloger - Slothful > Killjoy
TerRaine - Tubba Fett > xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx - TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Rodemy - xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx > Axelrod > Killjoy > Slothful > Killjoy > xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx
Rhand - Slothful > Killjoy
Jackrito - orangeandblack5 > Unvote > Slothful
gooLagoon - Slothful > TheRealStinkyJoeTerry > Slothful
Axelrod - Trisscar
kpaca - xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx
orangeandblack5 - kpaca
It takes 8 to elim, and Day 2 Deadline is July 11th, 2020 at 1715 PST. There will likely be a twilight phase.
Ampharos is V/LA.
Killjoy is V/LA.
Slothful is V/LA.
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx - 4+
orangeandblack5 - 4+
Ampharos - 2 (V/LA)
Tubba Fett - 3
Rhand - 1
TerRaine - 4+
Axelrod - 4+
tomsloger - 4+
Jackrito - 4
Trisscar - 4
kpaca - 4+
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - 3 (V/LA)
gooLagoon - 4+
Slothful - 4+
Rodemy - 0
Killjoy - 0 (V/LA)
Rhand has been prodded.
Rodemy has been prodded.
I seriously relaxed what qualified as content during this check for the sake of not replacing/prodding 5 people. You can see the people affected by this relaxation in the spoiler (Not labeled as 4+.)
If you will be unable to contribute 2 content posts per 24 hours, please communicate as such to the host. If you do not communicate with me and then post less than 2 content posts per 24 hours, you may be replaced/modkilled without additional warning.
Speaking of which... Tubba Fett has been modkilled for repeated inactivity.
Irregardless of their alignment, they can no longer win under any condition.Their role reveal will wait until a later, appropriate time.Do not discuss circumstances surrounding modkills.
Jackrito seems to believe ZDS is mafia. Overall Jack looks very good.
Axel not with KJ
Fulrcum says “I am still happy with my Rodemy, Terry, Lagoon, Amy, Terraine town reads/coven.” Which likely means her partner is in that grouping. No KJ there though.
Fulrcum not with Sloth
(896): Sloth / Zio plausible combo
Fuwa’s 961 bugs me.
Sloth’s post about Rodemy is way too elaborate.
Oh Axel claimed. Yeh that’s not a scum role.
Getting tired. Will continue after a nap.
On D1? Yea pretty much the intent is “get a response.” It’s data fishing. Town don’t have much to go on pre flip so the game for me is collect as much data as possible. Maybe it will tell me something in the moment. Maybe it will reveal something later when I look back with more info flips and interactions with the person.
Yup. I will fully admit I have very little in ways of direction this game. I am going with my gut and seeing where it takes me cause I’ve yet to really get anywhere when I’m town and I try to go with anything resembling structure.
Scum or Town….I do agree that I think these day phases are too long and causing burnout though
note: my vote broked the tie from the previous VC if i am not mistaken.
In P1605 Amy votes me, starting my wagon, Wisp votes Konan in P#1625 followed by Tom in post 1627, though Wisp switches to ZDS is post 1647.
Fulcrum votes me in P#1648 followed by Konan in post 1650.
Now my wagon have 3 votes, Amy who implied i am a better wagon in post 1637, Fulcrum and Konan.
Wisp in post 1652 makes my wagon a 4 players one and Tom comes the 5th for 'towncred', didn't find yet if he explained what that towncred means
@Tom, maybe you can give details about your P#1657.
The 6th is Killjoy in post 1658 voting with a joke, I don't understand this vote too tbh. Post 1660, Amy seized the weirdness of the quick wagon formed, but Lagoon is the 7th on my wagon in post 1661.
Tom is backing up very quick voting Konan in the next post, a bare vote.
Amy in 1674 votes Tuba asking Wisp why am I villager.
Lagoon votes without any explanation ZDS in post 1675.
Axel votes Konan too in post 1690 followed by Jack in 1694, Fulcrum in 1695 and Wisp in 1696.
the votes now are
ZeDorkSlipeur (3) - Rodemy, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, gooLagoon
tomsloger (2) - kpaca, Tubba Fett
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx (2) - Konan, Killjoy
Rodemy (1) - Trisscar
Slothful (1) - Fuwa
Tubba Fett (1) - Ampharos
Konan comes back and in post 1716 he votes ZDS, Fulcrum switches as well for ZDS, no wonder he didn't care about the lynch. Wisp goes on ZDS too in post 1721 (and i am happy i am not hosting this game) Lagoon too in 1722.
Wisp switches for Tubba in post 1732.
ZeDorkSlipeur (5) - Rodemy, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, Konan, fulcrum, gooLagoon
tomsloger (2) - kpaca, Tubba Fett
Tubba Fett (2) - Ampharos, Lastwhisper
Rodemy (1) - Trisscar
Slothful (1) - Fuwa
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx (1) - Killjoy
Axel in P#1747 shows how Konan should be the lynch from the way Shadow claimed.
Post 1748 Wisp votes Konan, followed by Axel in 1750.
post 1753, Awa votes ZDS because her town leans were voting in that wagon.
1768 Kpaca unvotes.
1782, after Konan said he can see Shadow's posts on Discord, Fulcrum votes Konan.
1792 Kpaca votes Konan too prob the 9th vote according to Awa.
1795 Fulcrum unvotes to avoid hammer
1831 Rodemy quoted a Konan post and voted Konan. 1832 Jack unvoted and the Konan wagon is at 8 P#1841.
Last votes are from Fulcrum in post 1842, Awa in 1843, Lagoon in 1847
1855 Trisscar unvoted but that was after the hammer.
The dynamic of these votes was really interesting to watch step by step and most probably without Sloth asking i would forget about Rodemy's post (used with 48h as longest DP, maximum played 5 days DP and 2 days NP) and i would still postpone to check it like this. I still have to answer at Rodemy's and Sloth's posts, btw
Things i noticed are: the intense sheeping mood of almost everyone, the read Wisp had for me, the fact Wisp was listened in that read while he was itt, the fact Konan could not defend himself and was not believed and the fact in the last big wagons no wolf was in danger.
If you really need to check this last sentence by my flip, you can do it, but don't complain i didn't tell i am villager.
I am not really expert in wagonomics and i can't figure how the movement between 3 town wagons would make someone really scum, but I have some question marks for the next vote changes and for final votes who remained until Eod:
- Tom voted me for towncredit. I asked about it, and if i missed the answer please excuse me and link it to me.
- Killjoy voted me for tomcredit, whatever this means. And dropped the vote and left. I wish to know why.
- in Konan voters Terraine didn't switch his vote at all after that vote, he was in Konan's wagon when i voted and there remained until Eod. Can i know why?
- Lagoon switched many time his votes and hammered, i think is too in your face for scum so i'd say he is most probably villager for it, but i don't really know Lagoon as player. Can you explain me this voting behaviour Lagoon?
I will let this for now and return later if i find new clues.
All what i said about Terry is not contradicted by this Eod. Just saying.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
I remained there cause I thought Konan was scum.
Im not using basketball to lock you as scum
Im moderately scumreading you by meta, and using basketball to explain it
And i stand by it.
Thats such a scumtom move tbh
@wmu voting "for towncred" implies i think youll flip scum and will make me look good.
Now that you pointed it out,
How do you know it isn't scum orchestration? Do you have infos it's not? Share them in this case please.
I still can't have a read for Tom. I can't read him, and he don't talk to me, throws in my direction few questions and i don't understand all of them, so we are not really interacting.
I need to see where is going Terraine with his push on me. Amy scolded me because i didn't give a read on Terraine in day 1, but i am still oscilating my read on him and I don't really have a read.
I think i can read Lagoon if we live enough to analize few flips, and he didn't move my scum meter.
Terry glued himself of ZDS's wagon, let's make him a statue...
Can i know what is villagery at Terry?
I don't vote very much usually, check my games, Wisp tunneled me few days in Eggs game because i didn't use the vote as town supreme weapon. Konan vote came from his reasons to vote, i explained it.
Is wrong to consider i don't want to look in Konan's wagon. Is a way of distorting my intentions, and i don't know if you are conscious about this or not.
I was multitabling a ton. All games finished, but i am expecting few games to start. This is how i am playing, and i am working too. The peak of my cheekiness it's that i also sleep.
After i voted until the hammer i was not itt at all.
If Terry is villager, in the worst case scenario, i am wrong about him, but your last sentence makes a heavy accusation. I am honest in my push. I think you are too, so i am expecting from you to reevaluate because you are wrong about me and wrong in making the lists of ppl saying i want or not to look at them. You filled up ideas but my intention was not that.
Are you indirectly tunneling Lagoon here? Like i said above, I don't see Lagoon posts being bad.
I don't see the change of votes as wolfy per se, this is a thing that can be made by both AIs, and also i don't see the locked vote on someone as a towny virtue.
Why is funny i want to look into my wagon?
I didn't just want to vote Terry. It happened that in the moment i said i want to check the push on ZDS that Terry insta scum read me, and I don't think this was towny from him because he didn't vote me in the same time.
I think i have to explain this, why is scummy to accuse in a violent way without voting: because you want to take thread's temperature at your sentence and see reactions, not just from the one you are accusing, but from everyone else, and check in this way where do you stay if you go and vote in that direction. One is insta voting at a revelation of someone being scum, and other is to premeditate an accusation to see the answer. Doesn't even matter my AI here, if he would not say 'die' the accusation of me being scum would not be so intense and i would start a normal interaction with Terry, and if he would vote i would ask why and the same, start an interaction.
But if one is town and want a scum read to die, all he needs to do is to vote. No vote meant for me that he knew i am villager and he didn't want to start the wagon on me. So there started my tunnel for the above reason. His Iso gave me some fuel for my tunnel so there's that.
What do you mean by avoiding ZDS wagon? I don't get this.
I am playing when i have time. I think this is valid for everyone playing FM. I didn't have time to read to make an opinion for my wagon, thank for your help.
I am coasting you say? I think if i was really coasting i would fly under the radar.
Kj can also just be mafia
Theres a reason im voting him
i will flip town and you will look bad.
I see, thanks for your answer
If he’s asking you questions he is talking to you. It’s on you to ask for clarification if you don’t understand the question. Basically your choosing not to interact and then saying I don’t have a read.
Her. So your read of me depends on if I think your scum or not? It’s not like I’m in total lurk mode and your reads shouldn’t depend solely on our interactions. This is the point someone was making (orange?) on this being a team game. Its anti town as hell to play like an island which is what you’re doing
You say one thing and do another. You want to look at the ZDS wagon….but say you’re not ignoring the konan….AND you want to look at your own wagon. Goo is a common link between each other these but you’re really not pushing him at all. You have wait and see a few Day and Night cycles attitude on him when according to your process his voting pattern SHOULD be a thing of concern. The very stuff you suspect Terry for is present there and you are very blasé about looking at it.
You keep asking anyone who doesn’t buy your case on Terry “Why do you town read him?” when your big defense of Good seems to be “I don't see Lagoon posts being bad.”
Why aren’t they bad?
Instead of addressing your own reads you turn it around on Rod who you seem to be town reading by accusing him of indirectly tunneling Goo….Rod’s been pretty damn up front he thinks Goo’s mafia. This is becoming a pattern any time someone challenges you instead of explaining yourself you try and turn the question on them. It's avoidance and it's scummy.
It makes it look like you don’t have answers and are making it up as you go along.
>calls him town
>but not too town
>but actually no read
>shading zds for townreading him
I asked for reformulation of what i didn't understood. Maybe you didn't see this?
My read on you depends on your posts. Idrc how do you read me, but i do care how are you handling the push. I never play antitown.
Why want you, like Rodemy, from me to push Lagoon, this i don't understand. If i will come to the conclusion Lagoon is scum i will say this itt. I don't need to invent a forced read made at pressure.
I still don't see from you a read of Terry, except you are annoyed at the fact I was asking for reads for him.
You keep meddling in the interactions i try to make with other players, you wanted to impose your opinions after i voted Terry, and now you are forcing ideas about Rodemy, i guess he can talk for himself, so why are you concerned about what i said about him and the answer i posted for him before he could read it and react to it?
You scum read me, i get it, now let me talk with the other players please. It makes it look like you are too concerned about me and you are quoting and talking to me to have activity instead searching for my imaginary scum mates. Why don't you ignore a 'wolf' you 'caught' and keep asking about posts and whatnot? From what i know, when you feel someone is wolf you don't trust his posts and you don't try to develop interaction to not help the wolf to share his narrative.
Your attitude towards me doesn't show you are a villager convinced I am scum.
What's the appropriate time? End of day?
Despite gaining zero interest, I'm not quite ready to abandon Trisscar. Something doesn't feel right there. I do feel like she got a bit emotional, which makes it harder to proceed though.