I think there is a difference between actively trying to lynch yourself and analytically being ok with your lynch
the earlier the game the more it's ok? it's still pretty bad though
and I can understand Jack's mindset here, given I've played with him
I have never played with ITF, so I can't say much about him doing it
I am kind of nullish on tom. He isn't playing his normal game, but I don't really think he has done anything either. He is just like one of three/four players who aren't being active. It wouldn't shock me if there was a wolf between Axel/KJ/tom/shadow as well as ITF, but I think I need to just kind of watch the game state a bit and see what I can find.
I don't even know where else to look there. ZDS could be going the long game again, but again, I feel like he is one of the few people solving so if he rolled wolf again, good for him. Maybe people will actually town so a night kill won't make him look bad.
It's also weird that 80% of the game just played with me. I feel "Prison Block" would show up in Ctrl F more than any individual player name.
and yes I am a bit paranoid that there isn't enough pushback on the ITF wagon
for him to be a wolf, his partners would have to be probably amongst weaker players, or lurkers
but like again, I can't see us all agreeing on another train in the time we have given the size of this game
They seems like a lot of pushback lately on myself and shadow. Even the one starting on Tom. I disagree with this view.
Well these just happened
wouldn't consider shadow or Tom actual wagons, since its what, 1 and 2?
I don't recall if your wagon is at 2 or 3
but like if ITF is a wolf here, I think wolves could easily vote you if you are town, no offense
Compared to more recent iterations of you though, I don't really see why your train is a thing
GJ
ZDS
LW
Rhand
Vaimes
Grape
JAck
KJ
Umani
Rodemy
Axel
tom
Shadow
Sloth
tubba
ITF
I know I am missing someone, but I can't for the life of me figure out who. Also, despite being an ordered list, there is a WORLD of difference Jack and KJ.
It was Rodemy, as I spent some time typing the above. So I got like ITF as an actual wolf read, along with Tubba as a lazy as **** read for me. From there, it's a tossup, and I probably just need to see bodies and dead wolf/town interaction.
I react to pressure as either alignment, and that's due to my anxiety and has nothing to do with my alignment
poking the bear will just make this thread get loud very quickly
I'm mildly concerned with how much of a weenie you're not being right now. This feels like the first time I've seen you with a confident scumread on Day 1, or do you feel this is typical for you, nothing out of the ordinary?
For a very recent example I was confidently pushing Umami D1 of your game. The degree's of confidence may be different but I'm more comfortable in this playerbase than DLP's.
Jack's 850 is very correct and I think another nice piece of evidence in favor. Lot's of willingness to vote, very little pedal to the metal. Jack saying they are playing different to prision but accusing me of being scum for pushing them differently is a thing.
Vaimes moving off the main wagon to start a new wagon after shading the Jack wagon is also a thing. Anyway to answer your question the heat Jack got early was mostly around my "Kindred spirit or scum" read.
and yes I am a bit paranoid that there isn't enough pushback on the ITF wagon
for him to be a wolf, his partners would have to be probably amongst weaker players, or lurkers
but like again, I can't see us all agreeing on another train in the time we have given the size of this game
They seems like a lot of pushback lately on myself and shadow. Even the one starting on Tom. I disagree with this view.
Well these just happened
wouldn't consider shadow or Tom actual wagons, since its what, 1 and 2?
I don't recall if your wagon is at 2 or 3
but like if ITF is a wolf here, I think wolves could easily vote you if you are town, no offense
Compared to more recent iterations of you though, I don't really see why your train is a thing
Normally I understand why I'm being scum read here not so much. I understand my playstyle is scummy but the reasons used on me are annoying. Since I can't really see the scum motivation in the actions that others see I'm doing.
My stance on ZDS for example what adv di I get in following him which is not true to begin with. I saw his points then looked into them myself I can't ignore him on the off chance he is scum again.
I also don't think my change on stance on ITF is that bad when someone reread these changes happen.
ZDS saying I was town because did early reads in Prison but here is also wrong because I clearly did reads here.
Jack is probably lower if ITF is town. My bottom 4 is also never a functioning team. It's more just out of the nulls, I think Shadow is the worst showing now. tom is striking a few nerves, but it's mostly because he is active. Imani and KJ, I have to keep reminding myself they are in the game (Grape as well, come to think of it).
I think my struggle in this game (and not just from the weekend) is apart from a few active players, I feel like not much is being said or done. ITF to me felt more coasty and keep his head down than the others, but as ZDS and others made their case, this felt more like a shrug lynch which maybe that is in fact just a town being pushed and the wolves don't give a ****. And then the ending is just....gah if he is town. If town has this much apathy day 1, it's going to be a long ******* game. I would be much ******* happier with this game if ITF does flip wolf because than I agree with tom to an extent: the apathy shown probably points to at least a few obvious wolves (and my list doesn't look nearly as *****ty).
and yes I am a bit paranoid that there isn't enough pushback on the ITF wagon
for him to be a wolf, his partners would have to be probably amongst weaker players, or lurkers
but like again, I can't see us all agreeing on another train in the time we have given the size of this game
They seems like a lot of pushback lately on myself and shadow. Even the one starting on Tom. I disagree with this view.
Well these just happened
wouldn't consider shadow or Tom actual wagons, since its what, 1 and 2?
I don't recall if your wagon is at 2 or 3
but like if ITF is a wolf here, I think wolves could easily vote you if you are town, no offense
Compared to more recent iterations of you though, I don't really see why your train is a thing
Normally I understand why I'm being scum read here not so much. I understand my playstyle is scummy but the reasons used on me are annoying. Since I can't really see the scum motivation in the actions that others see I'm doing.
My stance on ZDS for example what adv di I get in following him which is not true to begin with. I saw his points then looked into them myself I can't ignore him on the off chance he is scum again.
I also don't think my change on stance on ITF is that bad when someone reread these changes happen.
ZDS saying I was town because did early reads in Prison but here is also wrong because I clearly did reads here.
I don't necessarily think you are wolfy from it, but if I remember correctly, you were a lot less hedgey early in Prison Block.
Actually, I just remembered:
tom: I am pretty much in the same problem with Tubba as I was last game. You had him lean town last game before Sloth reveal, what's different about this game? Or are you having the same struggle I am?
I don't really understand why Jack is so widely scumread. People say he was obvious town in Prison, but wasn't that later in the game? He got a decent amount of heat early on, yeah? I have vague memories of being asked to justify my townread on him or something.
I can see the shade, but I dont really get how him voting a different wagon is like + scum ev? iv? am I doing this right lol
Many of the teams that work for ITF are the easy ones that wouldnt be able to gain thread control anyway.
What worlds don't work for ITF? What are the worlds that wouldn't be able to control the thread? Tubba, Shadow, Umami, and Sloth are the only partners that fit that. Actually looking at this there really isn't any sort of towncore which is annoying. Umami is like the only widely town read person right now.
I want to vote ITF but not sure what the votes are atm and hammer it by mistake. I need them to answer my question on their read list first as well since that bothered me a lot. Readlists like that imo come because the person does the list first then makes up reasons. Too much of it does not match their notes for it to make sense.
and yes I am a bit paranoid that there isn't enough pushback on the ITF wagon
for him to be a wolf, his partners would have to be probably amongst weaker players, or lurkers
but like again, I can't see us all agreeing on another train in the time we have given the size of this game
They seems like a lot of pushback lately on myself and shadow. Even the one starting on Tom. I disagree with this view.
Well these just happened
wouldn't consider shadow or Tom actual wagons, since its what, 1 and 2?
I don't recall if your wagon is at 2 or 3
but like if ITF is a wolf here, I think wolves could easily vote you if you are town, no offense
Compared to more recent iterations of you though, I don't really see why your train is a thing
Normally I understand why I'm being scum read here not so much. I understand my playstyle is scummy but the reasons used on me are annoying. Since I can't really see the scum motivation in the actions that others see I'm doing.
My stance on ZDS for example what adv di I get in following him which is not true to begin with. I saw his points then looked into them myself I can't ignore him on the off chance he is scum again.
I also don't think my change on stance on ITF is that bad when someone reread these changes happen.
ZDS saying I was town because did early reads in Prison but here is also wrong because I clearly did reads here.
I don't necessarily think you are wolfy from it, but if I remember correctly, you were a lot less hedgey early in Prison Block.
Actually, I just remembered:
tom: I am pretty much in the same problem with Tubba as I was last game. You had him lean town last game before Sloth reveal, what's different about this game? Or are you having the same struggle I am?
The lack of hedgy is a fair point, but that comes from me making a effort to try and not be as much. It will likely come back in later in the game since that is my personality, but for now I'm trying to not do it as much.
#446
You poke at Axel for his vote on Grape, it pinged me as well, but I filed it away under still early. It’s a memey vote but scum could hide behind it.
#491, #554, #598
My knee jerk reaction was eeew because it looked like you were trying sprinkle some dirt around, but the logic knot is something I could see myself digging into.
You weren’t trying to sprinkle dirt around but trying to clean it up if that makes sense.
I pick at things like this in my mind, and should vocalize it more so this clump is the main thing speaking to me that points to your towniness.
#710
I’d actually like you to touch on this a little more, what made you change your mind on thinking ITF wasn’t too bad to wanting to vote there? You also about face on Axel and I’m not sure I understand how you get there. You explain in a tactical sense why, (i.e. Axel is an unlikely lynch, Axel read is informed by an ITF flip) but kind of gloss over your reasoning for reevaluating him.
I just realized this how is Umani your top town. Your notes do not make it sound that way espically her stance on you.
Having Grape that high also makes little sense bases off your comments on Me. I would expect Grape to be same as Tom or lower not higher. A lot of these reads make no sense based off the comments
I have a lot of conflicting reads tbh, part of why I was having trouble catching up. Umami's interaction with my wagon is slightly strange, but I've had gut-town vibes from her posts.
There've been a few posts by Grape that's I've liked. His meta read on Umami is more likely to come from town. His push on you feels more focused than Tom's as well. Tom (as well as most of the others in the neutral block) have made many posts that could easily be scum or town posts.
The notes were just looking at my wagon, whereas my reads were more holistic.
Quote from LW »
@ITF
I agree that ZDS is just not someone I want to lynch, and this has very little to do with me agreeing with your read, and more so how you presented it
first it was, "because he was scum hunting" and then it was because "he is re-evaluating"
Ugh I'm going to crazy saying how I think these two very related concepts, but you aren't the only one who sees these as different, so this may be genuine.
Quote from GJ »
My issue right now as I try to restart my brain, is that I don't really see a strong counter push for anyone other than ITF. Everyone has their one white wolf they are trying to hunt, but it doesn't seem like there is a real counterwagon opposition to ITF.
It's making it difficult to find the scum on my wagon, because scum don't really need to do anything... they can just let it happen.
Quote from GJ »
Are you voting JAck right now?
Haven't voted because I assumed I was the lynch, wanted to vote after I got my reads together and felt comfortable with them, but I never really got to that point. Even now, I'm worried that my strong scum-reads (Tubba and Jack) are just low hanging fruit, which is a fine place to look D1 but less good on later days.
Quote from Tom »
@itf difference between grapes jack posts and my jack posts?
Grape's points stuck out more in my head.
Quote from Rodemy »
to be fair, i skimmed the pages until something pops out, i avoid long walls and stuff because i don't have the attention span to read them. I do it either alignment.
Sadly, I believe you.
Quote from Axel »
Like Shadow! This is still pretty bad. After all this time, he comes back with a readlist, and...that's it. I mean, the readlist is fine to do, and even appropriate when you're way behind, but I expected something else/more.
I think shadow's readlist is very meh as well, but I don't think there's enough content there to lynch him now. Something to look at D2 when he's really caught up.
Quote from Shadow »
If you’re town, fight to live, it’s a lot harder to find scum pushing a mislynch when the lynchee ties the noose.
u right
Quote from Shadow »
Jack/ITF both town, both conceding their own lynches, and because of that we chain lynch them.
This is making me paranoid that Jack's town as well. I want to be doubly sure Jack is scum before I push a wagon on him, need to reread the parts in Prison that made me gut-town there.
Quote from Rod »
vote Tom this is a real scumread.
so I have a thing, 9 out of ten, when people answer questions directed at other people, they are scum.
I caught someone in overwatch mafia doing this and I’ll be damned if I stop now.
I've done this a few times as town, but my brain isn't quite following the chain of events.
I'm not giving up on my Umani view by the way either. I don't care if most of you townread them because I don't and can't see why others are so much either. I just accept that won't happen today.
Why not have Grape then as top town. Also to go back to the previous post you said Tom did posts that town or scum can do. You can say that about anyone what is the key differance between grape and Tom posts that make Grape town and Tom null. If notes were based on Wagon does that mean you had none before and like KJ pointed out you have nothing on him who is the first vote in the wagon. Also wait you have half of the game in null I though that was slight town read.
This is my most important point though what exactly is Grapes points on me you like over Tom's? This is important because multiple times you have said you like the points but never went into why and what they are.This is important for a couple of reasons
I resent you saying that the way you construct a readlist is “a single irrelevant thing”. Scum get caught for their readlists plenty, I’d hardly call it irrelevant.
And I resent you calling it garbage purely for the format. Which, by the way, is what we're talking about. Not the readslist itself, which you said was fine slash not the point.
I can see the shade, but I dont really get how him voting a different wagon is like + scum ev? iv? am I doing this right lol
It depends on ITF being town (which I don't really know if I believe tbh) but if ITF is town it's great for Vaimes to get off the wagon. Likewise shadow had been under suspicion but he wasn't being voted and Vaimes didn't really try to build consensus. It's reeks of being a parked vote off wagon.
@Jack do you think anyone's town reads of Umami are scummy? I'm not seeing any next step thinking from you. Maybe it's because I've put you into a place of only self defense but you haven't shown any of the background thinking I'd expect. Your top scum read is a near universal top town read. Why aren't you analyzing that? Why has the analysis of "who is scummy for suspecting me" ended at Grape is pushing me differently from last game? I just don't get what you're doing if you're town here. You aren't trying to defend yourself or clear yourself by hunting.
I can see the shade, but I dont really get how him voting a different wagon is like + scum ev? iv? am I doing this right lol
It depends on ITF being town (which I don't really know if I believe tbh) but if ITF is town it's great for Vaimes to get off the wagon. Likewise shadow had been under suspicion but he wasn't being voted and Vaimes didn't really try to build consensus. It's reeks of being a parked vote off wagon.
@Jack do you think anyone's town reads of Umami are scummy? I'm not seeing any next step thinking from you. Maybe it's because I've put you into a place of only self defense but you haven't shown any of the background thinking I'd expect. Your top scum read is a near universal top town read. Why aren't you analyzing that? Why has the analysis of "who is scummy for suspecting me" ended at Grape is pushing me differently from last game? I just don't get what you're doing if you're town here. You aren't trying to defend yourself or clear yourself by hunting.
So let's just ignore my issues with ITF today then ok. Also since all of you see Umani as town hard to say which one is scummy, I would need flips and a review of the game to call that. Also if I'm scum why do I go for the universal town read when it gives me nothing but grief?
The thing on you being scummy is because it is the reverse of last game and you actually have a lot more intent to push it through this time why you feel so sure on me I'm not sure when you were wrong last time. Do Ir really think you are scum maybe I would like you to focus on other people instead of mostly me since you are accuseing me of only focusing on Umani which is not true, are you not doing the same?
Why not have Grape then as top town. Also to go back to the previous post you said Tom did posts that town or scum can do. You can say that about anyone what is the key differance between grape and Tom posts that make Grape town and Tom null. If notes were based on Wagon does that mean you had none before and like KJ pointed out you have nothing on him who is the first vote in the wagon. Also wait you have half of the game in null I though that was slight town read.
This is my most important point though what exactly is Grapes points on me you like over Tom's? This is important because multiple times you have said you like the points but never went into why and what they are.This is important for a couple of reasons
@Rod: I’m not going to tell you you’re wrong, but you call Tom scum every game. Can you maybe poke and prod at Tom and attempt to really dig into his thoughts and compare it to other things he’s done that you jumped on him for?
I was literally asking bubba questions so i could get interactions with him and tom butted in and ruined it.
That's not town behavior especially this early in the game. He doesn't know what tubba is thinking and IF bubba IS scum, he just gave him an out.
I wanted him to explain his vague vibes he was saying and tom answered for him. I never liked that nor do I think town should ever do that.
yes, i scumread him almost every game, but that's not a reason to not read that as a scum move.
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IIRC you had more reads in Prison, you posted them fairly liberally (Day 1 at least), and you were extremely wishy-washy on them. A lot more than here.
How are it/me different? How else are it/me similar? (Hint: pretty sure i gave a much wordier null read on johnny)
Also i think im townreading grape now. Probably in your place
Hows that fit in?
We are Day 1 and there is no pattern to see. In Prison I/my cellmates brought up the link Night 3/Day 4, when there was a clear pattern to see. The link was suspicious because it was blatant (give or take some intentionally very biased analyses behind closed doors). It has nothing to do with how wordy you were or whether you are nullreading or townreading the other player.
Ergo, the contexts are too different and I don't think we are gaining anything by getting lost in the details of this pointless comparison.
Here, the combination of how you explained your Grape read and of the two of you pushing a counterwagon felt buddy-ish. That's all there is to it. It's not enough to scumread either of you, but it's there, like a pebble that may one day be joined by other pebbles and form a path. Or not. The comparison with Prison was to emphasize the low weight of such a tell, if you can even call it that.
I don't know what's the point of your questions. We are drifting further and further away from anything meaningful. Right now you feel more like you are trying to take control of the conversation by focusing on every new element introduced to it, than like you are trying to figure me out.
What am i doing to control the conversation?
Is that mutually exclusive to trying to figure you out?
And no, that not all there is to it. Because...
>It was a response to question asking to explain, so overexplaining is meaningless
>It wasnt overexplained anyway
>Overexplaining is neither scummy nor partnery. Id argue for anyone, but certainky not for me
Im continuing with this conversation because you are reaching HARD to paint me as scum.
But not actually pushing it
Which is
Well
Certainly your recent scum meta lol
And you seem to hate me making you explain so
Point to tom
So let's just ignore my issues with ITF today then ok. Also since all of you see Umani as town hard to say which one is scummy, I would need flips and a review of the game to call that. Also if I'm scum why do I go for the universal town read when it gives me nothing but grief?
The thing on you being scummy is because it is the reverse of last game and you actually have a lot more intent to push it through this time why you feel so sure on me I'm not sure when you were wrong last time. Do Ir really think you are scum maybe I would like you to focus on other people instead of mostly me since you are accuseing me of only focusing on Umani which is not true, are you not doing the same?
My point wasn't about the ease of doing so. It was the lack of any effort. I think that Rhand and Tom's reads of Umami look very natural and are distinct from most others. The way Rhand was bursting to discuss the town read as soon as the DLP game felt real, the way tom was talking around the ongoing game gave me a similar vibe. You hand waving away that you can't glean anything without flips is going back to the lack of townie process I was pointing to.
So world I’m most afraid of:
Jack/ITF both town, both conceding their own lynches, and because of that we chain lynch them.
And while I would happily lynch either of them, the first person to say “surely they can’t both be town” will get a swift kick.
@people I trust: how do we tell if this is the world we’re in, and do you think anyone looks particularly bad in this world?
I think by talking about chainlynching them, YOU are the first person to suggest they cant both be town. I dont think they look actively w/v by any stretch. Neither of their flips would particularly effect my view on the other. Could even be w/w
But yeah i think v/v has the statistical edge.
@rod
OR
Im sick and tired of you not reading
And would rather you just react to the information that you already have access to
Also i didnt answer for him. I quoted him answering already.
But i have and will continue to answer for people this game so if you think that makes me scum have fun with that
(I recall answering someones question to vaimes about his read on me earlier. I wanna say i answered for someone in umami/rhand playstyle discussion too)
@tom. negative. He didn't specify which vibes he was talking about and i wanted clarity. Don't try and help me, i'm a big boy and i can do things on my own.
<3
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I was trying something and you killed it tom. I wanted him to state what he thought about my reads so i could get a good idea of how he was thinking. I literally wanted him to explain his thoughts on the reads and what he was thinking about them: not just "i can see where he is coming from" It's lazy and i want more explanation. Scum like to skate in the early game and that felt skatey to me.
my interactions with people help me eliminate possibilities. Fair?
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tom: I am pretty much in the same problem with Tubba as I was last game. You had him lean town last game before Sloth reveal, what's different about this game? Or are you having the same struggle I am?
No, i had him as lock town well before the mason reveal. By mid d1 iirc.
The mason claim only helped me with last tubba/sloth/jack/(and zds) was my towncore at the time
My read of tubba is currently "i can usually identify him as town by now"
And i havent
So vaguely think that means he isnt?
Doesnt feel great, and im very aware ive never been wrong on tubba so my opinion should matter.
So yeah reiterating here that its a conspicious lack of townread, not an actual scumread
okay i iso'd itf and frankly it is underwhelming. All i see is him stating things that happened and it's very bland. No real thoughts on things. And the read list makes no sense. Shadow is town even though he has barely posted? Come on.
I think i see someone who is just bad at playing scum and is trying to slide on by d1.
If you are town i feel like your heart isn't in this.
Has anyone played with ITF and know if this is typical of his D1 town game?
I won't vote until i get an answer.
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I was trying something and you killed it tom. I wanted him to state what he thought about my reads so i could get a good idea of how he was thinking. I literally wanted him to explain his thoughts on the reads and what he was thinking about them: not just "i can see where he is coming from" It's lazy and i want more explanation. Scum like to skate in the early game and that felt skatey to me.
my interactions with people help me eliminate possibilities. Fair?
what did i kill exactly?
I didnt add any words he can still answer and give those specifics...
I can also be incorrect and he could say those posts were unrelated and still answer
Like
I am conceding that i answer for people, sometimes to the detriment of the person asking.
I dont think this is an example of it. I literally quoted him for you.
Many of the teams that work for ITF are the easy ones that wouldnt be able to gain thread control anyway.
What worlds don't work for ITF? What are the worlds that wouldn't be able to control the thread? Tubba, Shadow, Umami, and Sloth are the only partners that fit that. Actually looking at this there really isn't any sort of towncore which is annoying. Umami is like the only widely town read person right now.
Would add jack and kj to that list as having ~0 impact.
And technically rod/vaimes/shadow are always on that list because they dont so much play to thir wincons as scum as "try to mimic their towngames" (with varying levels of focus and effectiveness)
I dont think ITF is particularly likely with axel or zds, who are the most impactful of the lowposters along with you and rhand
If he has buddies that have tried to save him, theyve been factually ineffective
I just wanted him to explain which thoughts of mine he was meshing with. You answering the question ****ed up any genuine interaction I had with him. Saying he was meshing with the vaimes read when he never specified it was indeed the vaimes read.
It just killed the whole thing I was trying to do.
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I can see the scummy tendencies others have pointed out on ITF, but I’m not seeing the scum equity. I don’t see what he’s trying to accomplish and it doesn’t look like anyone’s coordinating with him. Maybe that’s scum cutting the anchor loose, but even when ITF was posting there wasn’t anyone “liking it”. Probably just level 0 again but there should be some push back?
I didn’t like Umami’s entrance, seemed aggressive and mud-slingy, then with Last and her rolling around each other’s mouths I thought might be something. Last’s “explanation” is weak, but it seems like all I’m going to get there and no one else wanted to talk about it. Could see one in Last/Umami still.
If ZDS is scum this game, he’s dethroning somebody. Scum would’ve won last game if he showed this much wim earlier. He’s hunting and I’m agreeing with a lot of his thoughts. After my horrendous reads last game (hi KJ!), I’m probably gonna sheep Z, except ITF shouldn’t be dinkable this easily. Rhand mentioned that L-2 this early Day one is unusual and I agree.
Rhand has made some questionable statements. I didn’t like how he said he thought KJ rolled scum, begged off pushing or questioning there, and voted Axel after saying he didn’t have any scum reads. Unless it’s wine I think scumRhand doesn’t mess that up?
Tom is fine. I’m always worried back of my mind that this is the game he uses his “infallibility” to mislynch me, but I jived with his “Rod Brain TransferenceTM” and his thread presence doesn’t look like someone trying to steer the game.
GJ doesn’t like how I play, which I can understand. It makes it hard to work with him though, actually let’s take a minute and break that down.
I don’t play like Tom, or Shadow, or Rodemy, or Last, or Johnny, or Rhand.
And that’s fine. I don’t care if you can’t read me as town, I’m looking for scum. If I see something that pings me, I’ll bring it up but I’m not going to clog the thread with musings that don’t mean anything. This is especially noticeable day one when there’s no information to work with. I’d rather be right than admired, sure than celebrated and I’m never comfortable putting more of myself on the table than required. I was so wrong last game, that I’m sitting on my hands more than usual and more than I should. But it’d be a mistake to assume that means I’m not playing, that I’m not watching the game and hunting for potential scum.
This is becoming a ramble.
Not sus:
ZDS
Tom
Johnny
Rod
Vaimes
Killjoy
Kinda sus:
Rhand
Shadow
Grape
M+7
Jack
ITF
Axel
Sus:
Umami/Last
That’s more concisely where I’m at fwiw.
Most of the kinda sus is people I’m wanting to see more of, ITF would probably be lower if it didn’t seem so easy.
Well me and Wisp liked ITF at the time so this first point is wrong. Also they is not always coordination some scum just let each other play their own game and see what happens.
I agree on Umani a degree but less so on Wisp.
I agree with your ZDS read so have fun getting scum read for it by other people lol.
The last part of this makes me townread you a bit more, this feels like honesty rather then trying to manipulate others in my view.
Explain to me some of these reads though why is rod in your town pile and also why am I in the scum side since you seem to be on the same page as me on a couple of things, I find this a odd take. Also why is grape so low as well unless you said it elsewhere the rest of them you had some mention of.
I find myself not necessarily mirroring rod’s thoughts, but can mesh with how/why he thinks them. You’re not in the scum side, neutral/sort later pile. After I went out in Prison I thought you were scum so I don’t know how to read you, therefore slot you into the “wait and sees”. I don’t understand what you mean by sharing my ZDS read and getting scumread for it. As for Grape, I feel like I have a pretty good chance of reading him but need to see a little more. Honestly, that’s most of my positions right now. I need a flip, something concrete to start trying to build from.
this post specifically. That is the one I was questioning.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
I think shadow's readlist is very meh as well, but I don't think there's enough content there to lynch him now. Something to look at D2 when he's really caught up.
Talk about this "not enough content to lynch" when the other option is currently "you"
I'm not giving up on my Umani view by the way either. I don't care if most of you townread them because I don't and can't see why others are so much either. I just accept that won't happen today.
I resent you saying that the way you construct a readlist is “a single irrelevant thing”. Scum get caught for their readlists plenty, I’d hardly call it irrelevant.
And I resent you calling it garbage purely for the format. Which, by the way, is what we're talking about. Not the readslist itself, which you said was fine slash not the point.
Not format, structure. It’s not the type of readlist I expect from you because of how you play, and I found that suspicious coming from you.
So world I’m most afraid of:
Jack/ITF both town, both conceding their own lynches, and because of that we chain lynch them.
And while I would happily lynch either of them, the first person to say “surely they can’t both be town” will get a swift kick.
@people I trust: how do we tell if this is the world we’re in, and do you think anyone looks particularly bad in this world?
I think by talking about chainlynching them, YOU are the first person to suggest they cant both be town. I dont think they look actively w/v by any stretch. Neither of their flips would particularly effect my view on the other. Could even be w/w
But yeah i think v/v has the statistical edge.
That’s quite the creative license you took with my post. My point was that even as the lowest people in my reads, I think t/t isn’t particularly unlikely, and want to avoid running against that. So how do we identify and avoid that is so?
the earlier the game the more it's ok? it's still pretty bad though
and I can understand Jack's mindset here, given I've played with him
I have never played with ITF, so I can't say much about him doing it
I don't even know where else to look there. ZDS could be going the long game again, but again, I feel like he is one of the few people solving so if he rolled wolf again, good for him. Maybe people will actually town so a night kill won't make him look bad.
It's also weird that 80% of the game just played with me. I feel "Prison Block" would show up in Ctrl F more than any individual player name.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Well these just happened
wouldn't consider shadow or Tom actual wagons, since its what, 1 and 2?
I don't recall if your wagon is at 2 or 3
but like if ITF is a wolf here, I think wolves could easily vote you if you are town, no offense
Compared to more recent iterations of you though, I don't really see why your train is a thing
vote: ITF
this is definitely the best wagon right now
GJ
ZDS
LW
Rhand
Vaimes
Grape
JAck
KJ
Umani
Rodemy
Axel
tom
Shadow
Sloth
tubba
ITF
I know I am missing someone, but I can't for the life of me figure out who. Also, despite being an ordered list, there is a WORLD of difference Jack and KJ.
It was Rodemy, as I spent some time typing the above. So I got like ITF as an actual wolf read, along with Tubba as a lazy as **** read for me. From there, it's a tossup, and I probably just need to see bodies and dead wolf/town interaction.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
poking the bear will just make this thread get loud very quickly
For a very recent example I was confidently pushing Umami D1 of your game. The degree's of confidence may be different but I'm more comfortable in this playerbase than DLP's.
Jack's 850 is very correct and I think another nice piece of evidence in favor. Lot's of willingness to vote, very little pedal to the metal. Jack saying they are playing different to prision but accusing me of being scum for pushing them differently is a thing.
Vaimes moving off the main wagon to start a new wagon after shading the Jack wagon is also a thing. Anyway to answer your question the heat Jack got early was mostly around my "Kindred spirit or scum" read.
Normally I understand why I'm being scum read here not so much. I understand my playstyle is scummy but the reasons used on me are annoying. Since I can't really see the scum motivation in the actions that others see I'm doing.
My stance on ZDS for example what adv di I get in following him which is not true to begin with. I saw his points then looked into them myself I can't ignore him on the off chance he is scum again.
I also don't think my change on stance on ITF is that bad when someone reread these changes happen.
ZDS saying I was town because did early reads in Prison but here is also wrong because I clearly did reads here.
so idk what ZDS is talking about if that is what he stated
that would be great honestly
I think my struggle in this game (and not just from the weekend) is apart from a few active players, I feel like not much is being said or done. ITF to me felt more coasty and keep his head down than the others, but as ZDS and others made their case, this felt more like a shrug lynch which maybe that is in fact just a town being pushed and the wolves don't give a ****. And then the ending is just....gah if he is town. If town has this much apathy day 1, it's going to be a long ******* game. I would be much ******* happier with this game if ITF does flip wolf because than I agree with tom to an extent: the apathy shown probably points to at least a few obvious wolves (and my list doesn't look nearly as *****ty).
The GJ way path to no lynching:
where is this?
I don't necessarily think you are wolfy from it, but if I remember correctly, you were a lot less hedgey early in Prison Block.
Actually, I just remembered:
tom: I am pretty much in the same problem with Tubba as I was last game. You had him lean town last game before Sloth reveal, what's different about this game? Or are you having the same struggle I am?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I can see the shade, but I dont really get how him voting a different wagon is like + scum ev? iv? am I doing this right lol
What worlds don't work for ITF? What are the worlds that wouldn't be able to control the thread? Tubba, Shadow, Umami, and Sloth are the only partners that fit that. Actually looking at this there really isn't any sort of towncore which is annoying. Umami is like the only widely town read person right now.
The lack of hedgy is a fair point, but that comes from me making a effort to try and not be as much. It will likely come back in later in the game since that is my personality, but for now I'm trying to not do it as much.
#446
You poke at Axel for his vote on Grape, it pinged me as well, but I filed it away under still early. It’s a memey vote but scum could hide behind it.
#491, #554, #598
My knee jerk reaction was eeew because it looked like you were trying sprinkle some dirt around, but the logic knot is something I could see myself digging into.
You weren’t trying to sprinkle dirt around but trying to clean it up if that makes sense.
I pick at things like this in my mind, and should vocalize it more so this clump is the main thing speaking to me that points to your towniness.
#710
I’d actually like you to touch on this a little more, what made you change your mind on thinking ITF wasn’t too bad to wanting to vote there? You also about face on Axel and I’m not sure I understand how you get there. You explain in a tactical sense why, (i.e. Axel is an unlikely lynch, Axel read is informed by an ITF flip) but kind of gloss over your reasoning for reevaluating him.
Sorry, didn't expect Jack to offer himself as well, I didn't want that to happen.
At the very least, don't nolynch.
I have a lot of conflicting reads tbh, part of why I was having trouble catching up. Umami's interaction with my wagon is slightly strange, but I've had gut-town vibes from her posts.
There've been a few posts by Grape that's I've liked. His meta read on Umami is more likely to come from town. His push on you feels more focused than Tom's as well. Tom (as well as most of the others in the neutral block) have made many posts that could easily be scum or town posts.
The notes were just looking at my wagon, whereas my reads were more holistic.
Ugh I'm going to crazy saying how I think these two very related concepts, but you aren't the only one who sees these as different, so this may be genuine.
It's making it difficult to find the scum on my wagon, because scum don't really need to do anything... they can just let it happen.
Haven't voted because I assumed I was the lynch, wanted to vote after I got my reads together and felt comfortable with them, but I never really got to that point. Even now, I'm worried that my strong scum-reads (Tubba and Jack) are just low hanging fruit, which is a fine place to look D1 but less good on later days.
Grape's points stuck out more in my head.
Sadly, I believe you.
I think shadow's readlist is very meh as well, but I don't think there's enough content there to lynch him now. Something to look at D2 when he's really caught up.
u right
This is making me paranoid that Jack's town as well. I want to be doubly sure Jack is scum before I push a wagon on him, need to reread the parts in Prison that made me gut-town there.
I've done this a few times as town, but my brain isn't quite following the chain of events.
Why not have Grape then as top town. Also to go back to the previous post you said Tom did posts that town or scum can do. You can say that about anyone what is the key differance between grape and Tom posts that make Grape town and Tom null. If notes were based on Wagon does that mean you had none before and like KJ pointed out you have nothing on him who is the first vote in the wagon. Also wait you have half of the game in null I though that was slight town read.
This is my most important point though what exactly is Grapes points on me you like over Tom's? This is important because multiple times you have said you like the points but never went into why and what they are.This is important for a couple of reasons
It depends on ITF being town (which I don't really know if I believe tbh) but if ITF is town it's great for Vaimes to get off the wagon. Likewise shadow had been under suspicion but he wasn't being voted and Vaimes didn't really try to build consensus. It's reeks of being a parked vote off wagon.
@Jack do you think anyone's town reads of Umami are scummy? I'm not seeing any next step thinking from you. Maybe it's because I've put you into a place of only self defense but you haven't shown any of the background thinking I'd expect. Your top scum read is a near universal top town read. Why aren't you analyzing that? Why has the analysis of "who is scummy for suspecting me" ended at Grape is pushing me differently from last game? I just don't get what you're doing if you're town here. You aren't trying to defend yourself or clear yourself by hunting.
Grape, I don't even know who's voting Jack, but I know that a lot of people are okay voting him right now. Musing about it is not shade.
Unvote, vote ITF
So let's just ignore my issues with ITF today then ok. Also since all of you see Umani as town hard to say which one is scummy, I would need flips and a review of the game to call that. Also if I'm scum why do I go for the universal town read when it gives me nothing but grief?
The thing on you being scummy is because it is the reverse of last game and you actually have a lot more intent to push it through this time why you feel so sure on me I'm not sure when you were wrong last time. Do Ir really think you are scum maybe I would like you to focus on other people instead of mostly me since you are accuseing me of only focusing on Umani which is not true, are you not doing the same?
This is actually a very good question.
@Vaimes it's just me and tom.
I was literally asking bubba questions so i could get interactions with him and tom butted in and ruined it.
That's not town behavior especially this early in the game. He doesn't know what tubba is thinking and IF bubba IS scum, he just gave him an out.
I wanted him to explain his vague vibes he was saying and tom answered for him. I never liked that nor do I think town should ever do that.
yes, i scumread him almost every game, but that's not a reason to not read that as a scum move.
Is that mutually exclusive to trying to figure you out?
And no, that not all there is to it. Because...
>It was a response to question asking to explain, so overexplaining is meaningless
>It wasnt overexplained anyway
>Overexplaining is neither scummy nor partnery. Id argue for anyone, but certainky not for me
Im continuing with this conversation because you are reaching HARD to paint me as scum.
But not actually pushing it
Which is
Well
Certainly your recent scum meta lol
And you seem to hate me making you explain so
Point to tom
My point wasn't about the ease of doing so. It was the lack of any effort. I think that Rhand and Tom's reads of Umami look very natural and are distinct from most others. The way Rhand was bursting to discuss the town read as soon as the DLP game felt real, the way tom was talking around the ongoing game gave me a similar vibe. You hand waving away that you can't glean anything without flips is going back to the lack of townie process I was pointing to.
But yeah i think v/v has the statistical edge.
OR
Im sick and tired of you not reading
And would rather you just react to the information that you already have access to
Also i didnt answer for him. I quoted him answering already.
But i have and will continue to answer for people this game so if you think that makes me scum have fun with that
(I recall answering someones question to vaimes about his read on me earlier. I wanna say i answered for someone in umami/rhand playstyle discussion too)
<3
my interactions with people help me eliminate possibilities. Fair?
The mason claim only helped me with last tubba/sloth/jack/(and zds) was my towncore at the time
My read of tubba is currently "i can usually identify him as town by now"
And i havent
So vaguely think that means he isnt?
Doesnt feel great, and im very aware ive never been wrong on tubba so my opinion should matter.
So yeah reiterating here that its a conspicious lack of townread, not an actual scumread
I think i see someone who is just bad at playing scum and is trying to slide on by d1.
If you are town i feel like your heart isn't in this.
Has anyone played with ITF and know if this is typical of his D1 town game?
I won't vote until i get an answer.
I didnt add any words he can still answer and give those specifics...
I can also be incorrect and he could say those posts were unrelated and still answer
Like
I am conceding that i answer for people, sometimes to the detriment of the person asking.
I dont think this is an example of it. I literally quoted him for you.
And technically rod/vaimes/shadow are always on that list because they dont so much play to thir wincons as scum as "try to mimic their towngames" (with varying levels of focus and effectiveness)
I dont think ITF is particularly likely with axel or zds, who are the most impactful of the lowposters along with you and rhand
If he has buddies that have tried to save him, theyve been factually ineffective
Not feeling strongly about this though
It just killed the whole thing I was trying to do.
this post specifically. That is the one I was questioning.
It shows!