Umami didn’t say anything when Johnny claimed. And for some reason didn’t confirm johnnys role with her ability.
Umami is scum.
Yeah, I didn't say anything. WHy would I spread town out and give scum more targets when it didn't offer anything valuable for town? Like I obviously thought about. Let's say I claim when everyone else is claiming, I give scum more targets so GJ isn't even sure who to watch. Everyone knew scum would target shadow and that GJ would watch shadow (despite you saying the opposite--that scum was going to try to kill GJ and convince shadow and GJ to do a bad play early in the game--scum tell much lol). Me giving another target and trying to obviously coordinate with shadow would just give scum info without benefiting town, which is obviously something you want. Now that DBS is governor and I know they're not roleblocker, I have it narrowed down to 2 for roleblocker which is valuable enough to claim now because the benefit of waiting does not outweight the immediate benefit
Now answer why you targeted your targets and not GJ/Jack.
Because I was hunting, not confirming. If I feel 90% sure someone is scum and there's consensus that they likely are, confirming there is obviously a waste. If I catch someone that as a whole people are on the fence about or townread, that's a much more valuable catch. My questions is why would anyone not use this strategy? You guys are acting like it's so weird when obviously it's the best play. My tracking you and vaimes doesn't clear either of you (thus my listing you as null once I tracked you), but it does mean you aren't the RB. However, there now being a LW vs. Rod RB dichotomy and a DBS vs. KJ twilight role dichotomy (assuming there's 1 twilight role per team) and leaving TOm's massive Shadow/GJ/Tubba/KJ tinfoil as an unlikely possibility makes it less likely you are scum.
Tom, with your tinfoil, if it's serious--scum decided to do a massive early sacrifice with Tubba. Can you explain it by night which moves each of them did vs. what they said they did and lay it all out? Given that Shadow and GJ would both have to be bad for this to make any sense, what are town's power roles then? Like without shadow or GJ or KJ being town (that's 3 super power roles for scum without any counter from town meaning those town roles don't exist, + tubba's passive role), town just has Rhand's desperado, my tracker, and DBS's governor and a ton of VT, which seems even more poorly weighted than tubba passive + RB + scum governor or executor (twilight) + unknown power role vs. town desparado + town watcher + town RB + town governor or executor (twilight) + town tracker. Your tinfoil is 3 super power roles for mafia + 1 passive late game power role (4/4) and 3 power roles for town (3/12) vs. the more likely 2-3 power role for mafia + 1 passive late game power role (4/4-3/4) and (5/12) power roles for town. You really think there are 9 VT?
I'm really starting to see why I scumread you so much even if wrong now. We clearly have a idealogy conflict on use of PR and the power of concenus. You can be wrong on someone like you are on me and 90% are as you put it. Like we were all wrong on ITF if you believe me to be scum use your power to prove it that is how to use your role imo. Sloth was not being townread or on the fence for most so your pick of him makes no sense to your own views or Vaimes imo. You also seemed to have both as more then null after the track which does not match up.
I'm going to be real here though I feel the obsession on finding the RB only a bit weird, they are 2 other scum the focus on this and ignoring others because of it is confusing to me.
Quick setup question: Is there literally a dichotomy between me and DBS? I'm incluned to say no because we do different things but I wanna check before I fire.
I'm honestly questioning that. Mechanics aren't all that easy, so hmmmmmm.
...what is happening, the last game we played together you would do nothing but talk mechanics. It's how you insisted I was scum. Am I thinking of someone else?
Out of everyone, you should understand. It's precisely because of that game I won't push mechanics much.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Jack if Umami's scum, what reason could she have for clearing me as RB when she does? There was a good chance to get an ML and having me shot and KJ would be perfectly justified as "I just did what you told me to do."
Are you thinking we could be scum together?
Yeah, I didn't say anything. WHy would I spread town out and give scum more targets when it didn't offer anything valuable for town? Like I obviously thought about. Let's say I claim when everyone else is claiming, I give scum more targets so GJ isn't even sure who to watch. Everyone knew scum would target shadow and that GJ would watch shadow (despite you saying the opposite--that scum was going to try to kill GJ and convince shadow and GJ to do a bad play early in the game--scum tell much lol). Me giving another target and trying to obviously coordinate with shadow would just give scum info without benefiting town, which is obviously something you want. Now that DBS is governor and I know they're not roleblocker, I have it narrowed down to 2 for roleblocker which is valuable enough to claim now because the benefit of waiting does not outweight the immediate benefit
Now answer why you targeted your targets and not GJ/Jack.
Because I was hunting, not confirming. If I feel 90% sure someone is scum and there's consensus that they likely are, confirming there is obviously a waste. If I catch someone that as a whole people are on the fence about or townread, that's a much more valuable catch. My questions is why would anyone not use this strategy? You guys are acting like it's so weird when obviously it's the best play. My tracking you and vaimes doesn't clear either of you (thus my listing you as null once I tracked you), but it does mean you aren't the RB. However, there now being a LW vs. Rod RB dichotomy and a DBS vs. KJ twilight role dichotomy (assuming there's 1 twilight role per team) and leaving TOm's massive Shadow/GJ/Tubba/KJ tinfoil as an unlikely possibility makes it less likely you are scum.
Tom, with your tinfoil, if it's serious--scum decided to do a massive early sacrifice with Tubba. Can you explain it by night which moves each of them did vs. what they said they did and lay it all out? Given that Shadow and GJ would both have to be bad for this to make any sense, what are town's power roles then? Like without shadow or GJ or KJ being town (that's 3 super power roles for scum without any counter from town meaning those town roles don't exist, + tubba's passive role), town just has Rhand's desperado, my tracker, and DBS's governor and a ton of VT, which seems even more poorly weighted than tubba passive + RB + scum governor or executor (twilight) + unknown power role vs. town desparado + town watcher + town RB + town governor or executor (twilight) + town tracker. Your tinfoil is 3 super power roles for mafia + 1 passive late game power role (4/4) and 3 power roles for town (3/12) vs. the more likely 2-3 power role for mafia + 1 passive late game power role (4/4-3/4) and (5/12) power roles for town. You really think there are 9 VT?
I'm really starting to see why I scumread you so much even if wrong now. We clearly have a idealogy conflict on use of PR and the power of concenus. You can be wrong on someone like you are on me and 90% are as you put it. Like we were all wrong on ITF if you believe me to be scum use your power to prove it that is how to use your role imo. Sloth was not being townread or on the fence for most so your pick of him makes no sense to your own views or Vaimes imo. You also seemed to have both as more then null after the track which does not match up.
I'm going to be real here though I feel the obsession on finding the RB only a bit weird, they are 2 other scum the focus on this and ignoring others because of it is confusing to me.
I had ITF as a townread...
Ok I can't be bothered enough to go check I could paint this as tmi if I wanted to but whatever. Back to my point most of us did not so you are saying the only difference is you see me as scum so that makes me scum compared to the ITF lynch so you hold more merit. I mean that makes sense just a bit strange way to put it needing the concenus as well.
Quick setup question: Is there literally a dichotomy between me and DBS? I'm incluned to say no because we do different things but I wanna check before I fire.
I'm honestly questioning that. Mechanics aren't all that easy, so hmmmmmm.
...what is happening, the last game we played together you would do nothing but talk mechanics. It's how you insisted I was scum. Am I thinking of someone else?
Out of everyone, you should understand. It's precisely because of that game I won't push mechanics much.
I don't follow. I thought you were mostly right that game?
What stops me from being the RB again if I was scum? Since that world would really mess up the whole finding RB in Rod Wisp thing. Umani thinking I'm scum but impossible to be RB because play not careful enough is really weird to me. This implies I just did not care as scum in general and would require me to be RB to actually try.
I don't think it's impossible you're roleblocker. That's why I wanted to kill you--to narrow down the RB pool. I still think you could be scum and definitely am not ruling it out. But as tom analyzed forever ago and I agree, I don't think you would go straight for the silly/annoying martyr thing as an important power role for scum because that would just be screwing your team over for no reason. Like, if you really didn't want to play as scum, I think you would lurk instead of actively playing the martyr thing to lose because that move buys you a game day or two but hurts your team in the long run. You could still be, but I've thought Rod was RB for a while now and could see LW being one as well more so than I see you. If I'm wrong and you're scum RB and DBS is scum and saved you, good play. If DBS is town and saved the scum RB, I'm pretty pissed.
@Jack if Umami's scum, what reason could she have for clearing me as RB when she does? There was a good chance to get an ML and having me shot and KJ would be perfectly justified as "I just did what you told me to do."
Are you thinking we could be scum together?
I have a possible scum team of you and Vaimes and she tried to clear both teammates with a fake tracker claim because her use of it bothers me. I'm more on the side though she is town and we just have a ideals differance, that makes me biased. Mainly because I want to believe you are town here and I'm more right in that then my scum read of her.
actually forget that last post it is insane for a scum team of those 3 since one has to be in KJ or DBS. So yeah Umani is properly town here, or played a weird as hell gambit with clearing sloth
Whats more likely? That Vaimes didn't use his ability as RB, or that he just targeted a VT and it had no effect?
Is that how RB works if used on a vanilla? I assumed you still went to them.
I was roleblocker on Seinen, so I'm assuming. Seems obvious though? You only get told your ability failed if you try to use it, and VTs don't have that option.
If vaimes had targeted a VT, I would still know it even if the VT didn't know they were targeted...
I agree. I'm explaining why I agree with you that he's not the RB to Rod.
that’s assuming he even used his ability N1
and also that umami is telling the truth.
I don’t believe anyone anymore
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Rhand - town desperado - d2 tom axel - town bodyguard - unknow targetsprevious best guess (and still optimal play for axel based on what he thought): n2 shadow ITF - vanilla town/d1 mislynch
Now answer why you targeted your targets and not GJ/Jack.
Because I was hunting, not confirming. If I feel 90% sure someone is scum and there's consensus that they likely are, confirming there is obviously a waste. If I catch someone that as a whole people are on the fence about or townread, that's a much more valuable catch. My questions is why would anyone not use this strategy? You guys are acting like it's so weird when obviously it's the best play. My tracking you and vaimes doesn't clear either of you (thus my listing you as null once I tracked you), but it does mean you aren't the RB. However, there now being a LW vs. Rod RB dichotomy and a DBS vs. KJ twilight role dichotomy (assuming there's 1 twilight role per team) and leaving TOm's massive Shadow/GJ/Tubba/KJ tinfoil as an unlikely possibility makes it less likely you are scum.
Tom, with your tinfoil, if it's serious--scum decided to do a massive early sacrifice with Tubba. Can you explain it by night which moves each of them did vs. what they said they did and lay it all out? Given that Shadow and GJ would both have to be bad for this to make any sense, what are town's power roles then? Like without shadow or GJ or KJ being town (that's 3 super power roles for scum without any counter from town meaning those town roles don't exist, + tubba's passive role), town just has Rhand's desperado, my tracker, and DBS's governor and a ton of VT, which seems even more poorly weighted than tubba passive + RB + scum governor or executor (twilight) + unknown power role vs. town desparado + town watcher + town RB + town governor or executor (twilight) + town tracker. Your tinfoil is 3 super power roles for mafia + 1 passive late game power role (4/4) and 3 power roles for town (3/12) vs. the more likely 2-3 power role for mafia + 1 passive late game power role (4/4-3/4) and (5/12) power roles for town. You really think there are 9 VT?
I'm really starting to see why I scumread you so much even if wrong now. We clearly have a idealogy conflict on use of PR and the power of concenus. You can be wrong on someone like you are on me and 90% are as you put it. Like we were all wrong on ITF if you believe me to be scum use your power to prove it that is how to use your role imo. Sloth was not being townread or on the fence for most so your pick of him makes no sense to your own views or Vaimes imo. You also seemed to have both as more then null after the track which does not match up.
I'm going to be real here though I feel the obsession on finding the RB only a bit weird, they are 2 other scum the focus on this and ignoring others because of it is confusing to me.
I had ITF as a townread...
Ok I can't be bothered enough to go check I could paint this as tmi if I wanted to but whatever. Back to my point most of us did not so you are saying the only difference is you see me as scum so that makes me scum compared to the ITF lynch so you hold more merit. I mean that makes sense just a bit strange way to put it needing the concenus as well.
I don't understand your point. You're saying that town consensus can be wrong. I agree. However, when the person I read as scum is very likely to be lynched regardless of what I do, that's great. I don't need to put a lot of effort into getting that done. Vaimes was an early scumread for me because of being a good partner for you and I wanted to check that out. Vaimes is a fence person that can easily be pushed or kept around, so I wanted to see if there was a catch there. Even if I had checked you and you didn't have an active scum role, I would still think you were scum so I would get no new or game changing info. I would just know you weren't RB and assume you had a passive role like Tubba. If I did catch you, then I would just stay quiet and let you get lynched like you were going to anyway. L/L move for me because no information I got would have changed my play.
Sloth is someone I think is scummy to begin with and I know I like reading them as scum, so getting a no action from them doesn't clear them but at least I know he wasn't RB and didn't do the kill on N2. That means when people are pushing a potential scum mislynch and his wagon gains steam at an alarming speed and with the same people as ITF, I feel he pretty much has to be town. That was an awesome person to choose based on this past day because otherwise I probably would have just been like sure let's lynch sloth and wouldn't have narrowed down the RB.
What I'm considering now is that you were very hard to lynch and that DBS saving you has made you and DBS look great. If KJ chooses between Rod and LW and hits scum RB, then it looks like a Tubba/Rod/DBS/Jack team is pretty likely. If KJ is killed and flips town, it looks like a Tubba/Rod/DBS/Jack team is the solve--feel free to switch LW for Rod at any point. As I said, there is a small chance that Rod is reverse slumdog millionairing it where he is just going after town left and right and not having a single correct scum read.
Quick setup question: Is there literally a dichotomy between me and DBS? I'm incluned to say no because we do different things but I wanna check before I fire.
I'm honestly questioning that. Mechanics aren't all that easy, so hmmmmmm.
...what is happening, the last game we played together you would do nothing but talk mechanics. It's how you insisted I was scum. Am I thinking of someone else?
Out of everyone, you should understand. It's precisely because of that game I won't push mechanics much.
I don't follow. I thought you were mostly right that game?
The doctor roulette/reviver/lightning rod, they all could manipulate the NK to an extent (don't forget the backup). Didn't see how they could all be town but they were.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Because I was hunting, not confirming. If I feel 90% sure someone is scum and there's consensus that they likely are, confirming there is obviously a waste. If I catch someone that as a whole people are on the fence about or townread, that's a much more valuable catch. My questions is why would anyone not use this strategy? You guys are acting like it's so weird when obviously it's the best play. My tracking you and vaimes doesn't clear either of you (thus my listing you as null once I tracked you), but it does mean you aren't the RB. However, there now being a LW vs. Rod RB dichotomy and a DBS vs. KJ twilight role dichotomy (assuming there's 1 twilight role per team) and leaving TOm's massive Shadow/GJ/Tubba/KJ tinfoil as an unlikely possibility makes it less likely you are scum.
Tom, with your tinfoil, if it's serious--scum decided to do a massive early sacrifice with Tubba. Can you explain it by night which moves each of them did vs. what they said they did and lay it all out? Given that Shadow and GJ would both have to be bad for this to make any sense, what are town's power roles then? Like without shadow or GJ or KJ being town (that's 3 super power roles for scum without any counter from town meaning those town roles don't exist, + tubba's passive role), town just has Rhand's desperado, my tracker, and DBS's governor and a ton of VT, which seems even more poorly weighted than tubba passive + RB + scum governor or executor (twilight) + unknown power role vs. town desparado + town watcher + town RB + town governor or executor (twilight) + town tracker. Your tinfoil is 3 super power roles for mafia + 1 passive late game power role (4/4) and 3 power roles for town (3/12) vs. the more likely 2-3 power role for mafia + 1 passive late game power role (4/4-3/4) and (5/12) power roles for town. You really think there are 9 VT?
I'm really starting to see why I scumread you so much even if wrong now. We clearly have a idealogy conflict on use of PR and the power of concenus. You can be wrong on someone like you are on me and 90% are as you put it. Like we were all wrong on ITF if you believe me to be scum use your power to prove it that is how to use your role imo. Sloth was not being townread or on the fence for most so your pick of him makes no sense to your own views or Vaimes imo. You also seemed to have both as more then null after the track which does not match up.
I'm going to be real here though I feel the obsession on finding the RB only a bit weird, they are 2 other scum the focus on this and ignoring others because of it is confusing to me.
I had ITF as a townread...
Ok I can't be bothered enough to go check I could paint this as tmi if I wanted to but whatever. Back to my point most of us did not so you are saying the only difference is you see me as scum so that makes me scum compared to the ITF lynch so you hold more merit. I mean that makes sense just a bit strange way to put it needing the concenus as well.
I don't understand your point. You're saying that town consensus can be wrong. I agree. However, when the person I read as scum is very likely to be lynched regardless of what I do, that's great. I don't need to put a lot of effort into getting that done. Vaimes was an early scumread for me because of being a good partner for you and I wanted to check that out. Vaimes is a fence person that can easily be pushed or kept around, so I wanted to see if there was a catch there. Even if I had checked you and you didn't have an active scum role, I would still think you were scum so I would get no new or game changing info. I would just know you weren't RB and assume you had a passive role like Tubba. If I did catch you, then I would just stay quiet and let you get lynched like you were going to anyway. L/L move for me because no information I got would have changed my play.
Sloth is someone I think is scummy to begin with and I know I like reading them as scum, so getting a no action from them doesn't clear them but at least I know he wasn't RB and didn't do the kill on N2. That means when people are pushing a potential scum mislynch and his wagon gains steam at an alarming speed and with the same people as ITF, I feel he pretty much has to be town. That was an awesome person to choose based on this past day because otherwise I probably would have just been like sure let's lynch sloth and wouldn't have narrowed down the RB.
What I'm considering now is that you were very hard to lynch and that DBS saving you has made you and DBS look great. If KJ chooses between Rod and LW and hits scum RB, then it looks like a Tubba/Rod/DBS/Jack team is pretty likely. If KJ is killed and flips town, it looks like a Tubba/Rod/DBS/Jack team is the solve--feel free to switch LW for Rod at any point. As I said, there is a small chance that Rod is reverse slumdog millionairing it where he is just going after town left and right and not having a single correct scum read.
You were putting a decent bit of effort into getting me lynched and shot though you had multi popins just to say that. Even when I was being scumread. How was Vaimes a good partner for me? I think that I was townreading him early but so were most people off tone, so expand on this. They is too much heavy assumption I'm scum even on day one, if you were tracking Vaimes because possible team with me. I need to look back on day one and see if your Vaimes read here matches up.
Yeah but Sloth did not match the critria for your picks like he himself pointed out. I'm also not sure if I ever remember you saying Sloth was scummy on day one or 2 but could be wrong there.
I was not that hard to lynch tbh hard to hammer they is a key differance my train was always getting lynched tomorrow maybe Sloth but that was still connected to me and would lead to me next day. I also disagree that DBS saving me made us both look great everyone hates it and wants to lynch me still and doubts her.
Rhand - town desperado - d2 tom axel - town bodyguard - unknow targetsprevious best guess (and still optimal play for axel based on what he thought): n2 shadow ITF - vanilla town/d1 mislynch
Interesting. I guess it's a dichotomy. Killjoy is townlean for me though.
As for Umami and GJ, I did remember Umami having a positive look from D1.
The rest are in random places. Shadow being jailer should be self-resolving.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Rhand - town desperado - d2 tom axel - town bodyguard - unknow targetsprevious best guess (and still optimal play for axel based on what he thought): n2 shadow ITF - vanilla town/d1 mislynch
IF all PR claims are true + town
>tubba was given immunitybfrim rolecops against a tracker and a watcher
>Mafia roleblocker in jack/rod/last
(Possibly sloth no confirmation of n1 roleblock but like... yeah)
>all three scum in those 3 + vaimes/sloth
>>Can swap <kj or dawn> in there relatively freely barring unalignments or whatever
IF johnny claim is true
>confirms tubba targeted zds with a kill (no other abilities active)
>confirms mafia roleblocker, at least n2
>makes shadow the most obvious explanation for lack of n1 kill
IF umami claim is true
>vaimes did nothing n1
>sloth did nothing n2
IF either is false
>we dont know those things?
The best info might be axel protecting shadow? Thats... clearly the right move for a bodyguard yes?
And if shadow is town the n1 kill was stopped by jailing zds.
And even if Johnny is a wolf i think him knowing or figuring out what happened (scum watcher?) and trying to get something out of it seems more likely than totally throwing tubba under the bus for zds?
Either way not worth thinking about before a johnny red flip
And even if Johnny is a wolf i think him knowing or figuring out what happened (scum watcher?) and trying to get something out of it seems more likely than totally throwing tubba under the bus for zds?
Either way not worth thinking about before a johnny red flip
There's the possibility I brought up that Johnny is not Watcher at all, which seems at least somewwhat more likely now.
OR there is no roleblocker and GJ is scum, because are we supposed to believe there's a tracker, a watcher and a Rolecop (per Tubba's role)???
OK, is GJ still a watcher though? Like if there's no roleblocker and GJ is scum, that still means that either both shadow and Tubba both acted on ZDS N1 and GJ somehow found out or that they didn't act on ZDS and just said they did. If both of them are scum, why wasn't there a night kill? Like in this tinfoil, scum is GJ/Shadow/Tubba/ZDS and they just decided not to use their night kill to throw us off? If that's the case, then I find it weird that there are 2 town twilight power roles that seem to work against each other--like okay, you can pardon, but if you do this other player's power becomes active. That seems like that has to be a dichotomy.
I would save the tinfoils for when we aren't getting the results we expect. Lack of results because of interference with the game by DBS is not a reason to tinfoil yet
Not sure why I'm arguing with Umani when I think she is properly town atm, but I will do me I guess.
yeah, can you stop? @Umami both of you.
This is not relevant right now, and it can wait till toMorrow. We need a shot.
Sloth, seriously? I've responded directly to comments and questions. I'm not arguing. Read my posts. Don't be patronizing. Not a good look regardless of how old and male you are
OR there is no roleblocker and GJ is scum, because are we supposed to believe there's a tracker, a watcher and a Rolecop (per Tubba's role)???
OK, is GJ still a watcher though? Like if there's no roleblocker and GJ is scum, that still means that either both shadow and Tubba both acted on ZDS N1 and GJ somehow found out or that they didn't act on ZDS and just said they did. If both of them are scum, why wasn't there a night kill? Like in this tinfoil, scum is GJ/Shadow/Tubba/ZDS and they just decided not to use their night kill to throw us off? If that's the case, then I find it weird that there are 2 town twilight power roles that seem to work against each other--like okay, you can pardon, but if you do this other player's power becomes active. That seems like that has to be a dichotomy.
I would save the tinfoils for when we aren't getting the results we expect. Lack of results because of interference with the game by DBS is not a reason to tinfoil yet
GJ can be scumwatcher, and I would assume they have an investigative role of sorts, honestly.
I have brought up the possibility that he is not, which explains his behavior when softing his "claim" and waited for reactions (i.e. Shadow's). Scum don't need a watcher to know that something interrupted the Dork kill.
I still have Dork as town regardless.
Rhand - town desperado - d2 tom axel - town bodyguard - unknow targetsprevious best guess (and still optimal play for axel based on what he thought): n2 shadow ITF - vanilla town/d1 mislynch
IF all PR claims are true + town
>tubba was given immunitybfrim rolecops against a tracker and a watcher
>Mafia roleblocker in jack/rod/last
(Possibly sloth no confirmation of n1 roleblock but like... yeah)
>all three scum in those 3 + vaimes/sloth
>>Can swap <kj or dawn> in there relatively freely barring unalignments or whatever
IF johnny claim is true
>confirms tubba targeted zds with a kill (no other abilities active)
>confirms mafia roleblocker, at least n2
>makes shadow the most obvious explanation for lack of n1 kill
IF umami claim is true
>vaimes did nothing n1
>sloth did nothing n2
IF either is false
>we dont know those things?
The best info might be axel protecting shadow? Thats... clearly the right move for a bodyguard yes?
And if shadow is town the n1 kill was stopped by jailing zds.
And even if Johnny is a wolf i think him knowing or figuring out what happened (scum watcher?) and trying to get something out of it seems more likely than totally throwing tubba under the bus for zds?
Either way not worth thinking about before a johnny red flip
axel/rhand/itf
shadow/ZDS - not scum without <****ery> umami//gj
Dawn//kj - possible role dichotomies? Theres town in these 4. Theres wolves too i imagine. 1 or 2 prolly. World with 0 probably counts as <****ery> jack/sloth/vaimes/rod/last - like, whatever dude. Read these people on behavior and not one of them is towny and i cant believe rhand shot me i gotta message him once i figure out tone for ***** talking tubba
Not sure why I'm arguing with Umani when I think she is properly town atm, but I will do me I guess.
yeah, can you stop? @Umami both of you.
This is not relevant right now, and it can wait till toMorrow. We need a shot.
Sloth, seriously? I've responded directly to comments and questions. I'm not arguing. Read my posts. Don't be patronizing. Not a good look regardless of how old and male you are
All I meant is let's not get distracted and keep focused on what should be the highest priority right now. I apologize.
Jack/Umami/Tom/ZDS/Shadow still likely town.
Scum in Phraze/KJ (prob Phraze)
Scum in Last/Rod (Last most likely, but possibly both?)
Vaimes seems townier now, but nothing to hang my nonexistent hat on.
GJ is looking scummier out of the 3 in the townlock group, and I'm really liking the idea of shooting him, but still prefer Phraze.
And if I'm wrong in any of this...I'm still incredibly attractive. Tell them, Last.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Not sure why I'm arguing with Umani when I think she is properly town atm, but I will do me I guess.
yeah, can you stop? @Umami both of you.
This is not relevant right now, and it can wait till toMorrow. We need a shot.
Sloth, seriously? I've responded directly to comments and questions. I'm not arguing. Read my posts. Don't be patronizing. Not a good look regardless of how old and male you are
All I meant is let's not get distracted and keep focused on what should be the highest priority right now. I apologize.
It's fine. I just felt like I was being asked direct questions about the same topic(including by you)about why I tracked who I did and I was trying to give direct answers. Being told simultaneously to answer and to stop answering by the same person was just a weird contradiction. Sorry about my response
1. Grapefruit21 dawningbluesky — 1-shot Governor (may have other abilities?)
2. ZeDorkSlipeur — It's hilarious watching the speculations over my role but right now clarifying the game is more important than keeping scum guessing: I'm Jerle Batra, vanilla (Ba-dum tss). This townfirms shadow since he is the only reason I am still alive.
3. Gentleman Johnny — "hard claim watcher shot", possibly implying he was N-shot or is a JOAT-type deal.
5. Jackrito — Claimed vanilla
7. shadowlancerx — Jailer
8. tomsloger — Unknown, townfirmed beyond tinfoil
9. Vaimes — Claimed vanilla, did not target anyone N1 according to Uma
10. Lastwhisper — Claimed vanilla
11. Umami — Tracker
12. M plus 7 Slothful — Claimed vanilla, did not target anyone N2 according to Uma
13. Rodemy — Did he claim anything?
15. Killjoy — Judge
Tubba's role hinted at a rolecop, although at this point I believe the rolecop is either Johnny (if JOAT) or a red herring. I once thought it was Uma (hence that time I had a mysterious reason for thinking Jack was falseclaiming).
Superficial dichotomies are dawning VS KJ and Johnny vs Uma.
dawning+KJ may be an intentional combo (replacing the lynch with a lynch on someone else) and with Johnny+Uma it depends on Johnny's role.
Johnny should fullclaim when he can. If dichotomy there is, I think I'm siding more towards scUmami since her targets aren't great, but it's nowhere near as easy as it was for Tubba VS shadow.
KJ should shoot a claimed vanilla from the POE pool.
If shadow is good and GJ is the watcher and we know DBS's ability, then killing the RB right now will free shadow up and allow him to cont JK and GJ to keep watching so when they kill shadow eventually we automatically know who did it
1. Grapefruit21 dawningbluesky — 1-shot Governor (may have other abilities?)
2. ZeDorkSlipeur — It's hilarious watching the speculations over my role but right now clarifying the game is more important than keeping scum guessing: I'm Jerle Batra, vanilla (Ba-dum tss). This townfirms shadow since he is the only reason I am still alive.
3. Gentleman Johnny — "hard claim watcher shot", possibly implying he was N-shot or is a JOAT-type deal.
5. Jackrito — Claimed vanilla
7. shadowlancerx — Jailer
8. tomsloger — Unknown, townfirmed beyond tinfoil
9. Vaimes — Claimed vanilla, did not target anyone N1 according to Uma
10. Lastwhisper — Claimed vanilla
11. Umami — Tracker
12. M plus 7 Slothful — Claimed vanilla, did not target anyone N2 according to Uma
13. Rodemy — Did he claim anything?
15. Killjoy — Judge
Tubba's role hinted at a rolecop, although at this point I believe the rolecop is either Johnny (if JOAT) or a red herring. I once thought it was Uma (hence that time I had a mysterious reason for thinking Jack was falseclaiming).
Superficial dichotomies are dawning VS KJ and Johnny vs Uma.
dawning+KJ may be an intentional combo (replacing the lynch with a lynch on someone else) and with Johnny+Uma it depends on Johnny's role.
Johnny should fullclaim when he can. If dichotomy there is, I think I'm siding more towards scUmami since her targets aren't great, but it's nowhere near as easy as it was for Tubba VS shadow.
KJ should shoot a claimed vanilla from the POE pool.
Actually. Maybe Last is better. Our combo could be some awesome towncombo.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I had ITF as a townread...
Be grateful, always."
Are you thinking we could be scum together?
Also, for the love of god,
Ok I can't be bothered enough to go check I could paint this as tmi if I wanted to but whatever. Back to my point most of us did not so you are saying the only difference is you see me as scum so that makes me scum compared to the ITF lynch so you hold more merit. I mean that makes sense just a bit strange way to put it needing the concenus as well.
I don't think it's impossible you're roleblocker. That's why I wanted to kill you--to narrow down the RB pool. I still think you could be scum and definitely am not ruling it out. But as tom analyzed forever ago and I agree, I don't think you would go straight for the silly/annoying martyr thing as an important power role for scum because that would just be screwing your team over for no reason. Like, if you really didn't want to play as scum, I think you would lurk instead of actively playing the martyr thing to lose because that move buys you a game day or two but hurts your team in the long run. You could still be, but I've thought Rod was RB for a while now and could see LW being one as well more so than I see you. If I'm wrong and you're scum RB and DBS is scum and saved you, good play. If DBS is town and saved the scum RB, I'm pretty pissed.
I have a possible scum team of you and Vaimes and she tried to clear both teammates with a fake tracker claim because her use of it bothers me. I'm more on the side though she is town and we just have a ideals differance, that makes me biased. Mainly because I want to believe you are town here and I'm more right in that then my scum read of her.
Gonna make a note to do that in a future scum game lol.
Mindmeld.
Be grateful, always."
Will it never be tom?
that’s assuming he even used his ability N1
and also that umami is telling the truth.
I don’t believe anyone anymore
Rhand- town desperado - d2 tomaxel- town bodyguard - unknow targets previous best guess (and still optimal play for axel based on what he thought): n2 shadowITF- vanilla town/d1 mislynchShadow - Jailkeeper - n1 zds, n2 kj
Zds - unclaimed, <informed by others>
Umami - tracker - n1 vaimes, n2 sloth (no results)
GJ - watcher - n1 zds (tubba/shadow), n2 blocked
Dawning - governor - d2 pardoned jack
Kj - judge - d2 kills ____
Jack/vaimes/last/sloth/rod - claimed vanilla
tubba- mafia (kinda godfather, kinda vig)Whats more likely? That Vaimes didn't use his ability as RB, or that he just targeted a VT and it had no effect?
'Cause I really don't see how the first could be possible, even as a gambit.
I don't understand your point. You're saying that town consensus can be wrong. I agree. However, when the person I read as scum is very likely to be lynched regardless of what I do, that's great. I don't need to put a lot of effort into getting that done. Vaimes was an early scumread for me because of being a good partner for you and I wanted to check that out. Vaimes is a fence person that can easily be pushed or kept around, so I wanted to see if there was a catch there. Even if I had checked you and you didn't have an active scum role, I would still think you were scum so I would get no new or game changing info. I would just know you weren't RB and assume you had a passive role like Tubba. If I did catch you, then I would just stay quiet and let you get lynched like you were going to anyway. L/L move for me because no information I got would have changed my play.
Sloth is someone I think is scummy to begin with and I know I like reading them as scum, so getting a no action from them doesn't clear them but at least I know he wasn't RB and didn't do the kill on N2. That means when people are pushing a potential scum mislynch and his wagon gains steam at an alarming speed and with the same people as ITF, I feel he pretty much has to be town. That was an awesome person to choose based on this past day because otherwise I probably would have just been like sure let's lynch sloth and wouldn't have narrowed down the RB.
What I'm considering now is that you were very hard to lynch and that DBS saving you has made you and DBS look great. If KJ chooses between Rod and LW and hits scum RB, then it looks like a Tubba/Rod/DBS/Jack team is pretty likely. If KJ is killed and flips town, it looks like a Tubba/Rod/DBS/Jack team is the solve--feel free to switch LW for Rod at any point. As I said, there is a small chance that Rod is reverse slumdog millionairing it where he is just going after town left and right and not having a single correct scum read.
What's your tinfoil?
I think umami is lying. That’s more likely.
The doctor roulette/reviver/lightning rod, they all could manipulate the NK to an extent (don't forget the backup). Didn't see how they could all be town but they were.
Be grateful, always."
You were putting a decent bit of effort into getting me lynched and shot though you had multi popins just to say that. Even when I was being scumread. How was Vaimes a good partner for me? I think that I was townreading him early but so were most people off tone, so expand on this. They is too much heavy assumption I'm scum even on day one, if you were tracking Vaimes because possible team with me. I need to look back on day one and see if your Vaimes read here matches up.
Yeah but Sloth did not match the critria for your picks like he himself pointed out. I'm also not sure if I ever remember you saying Sloth was scummy on day one or 2 but could be wrong there.
I was not that hard to lynch tbh hard to hammer they is a key differance my train was always getting lynched tomorrow maybe Sloth but that was still connected to me and would lead to me next day. I also disagree that DBS saving me made us both look great everyone hates it and wants to lynch me still and doubts her.
As for Umami and GJ, I did remember Umami having a positive look from D1.
The rest are in random places. Shadow being jailer should be self-resolving.
Be grateful, always."
>tubba was given immunitybfrim rolecops against a tracker and a watcher
>Mafia roleblocker in jack/rod/last
(Possibly sloth no confirmation of n1 roleblock but like... yeah)
>all three scum in those 3 + vaimes/sloth
>>Can swap <kj or dawn> in there relatively freely barring unalignments or whatever
IF johnny claim is true
>confirms tubba targeted zds with a kill (no other abilities active)
>confirms mafia roleblocker, at least n2
>makes shadow the most obvious explanation for lack of n1 kill
IF umami claim is true
>vaimes did nothing n1
>sloth did nothing n2
IF either is false
>we dont know those things?
The best info might be axel protecting shadow? Thats... clearly the right move for a bodyguard yes?
And if shadow is town the n1 kill was stopped by jailing zds.
And even if Johnny is a wolf i think him knowing or figuring out what happened (scum watcher?) and trying to get something out of it seems more likely than totally throwing tubba under the bus for zds?
Either way not worth thinking about before a johnny red flip
@Umami both of you.
This is not relevant right now, and it can wait till toMorrow. We need a shot.
OK, is GJ still a watcher though? Like if there's no roleblocker and GJ is scum, that still means that either both shadow and Tubba both acted on ZDS N1 and GJ somehow found out or that they didn't act on ZDS and just said they did. If both of them are scum, why wasn't there a night kill? Like in this tinfoil, scum is GJ/Shadow/Tubba/ZDS and they just decided not to use their night kill to throw us off? If that's the case, then I find it weird that there are 2 town twilight power roles that seem to work against each other--like okay, you can pardon, but if you do this other player's power becomes active. That seems like that has to be a dichotomy.
I would save the tinfoils for when we aren't getting the results we expect. Lack of results because of interference with the game by DBS is not a reason to tinfoil yet
Well nothing to do while we wait for KJ to come back.
Sloth, seriously? I've responded directly to comments and questions. I'm not arguing. Read my posts. Don't be patronizing. Not a good look regardless of how old and male you are
I have brought up the possibility that he is not, which explains his behavior when softing his "claim" and waited for reactions (i.e. Shadow's). Scum don't need a watcher to know that something interrupted the Dork kill.
I still have Dork as town regardless.
axel/rhand/itf
shadow/ZDS - not scum without <****ery>
umami//gj
Dawn//kj - possible role dichotomies? Theres town in these 4. Theres wolves too i imagine. 1 or 2 prolly. World with 0 probably counts as <****ery>
jack/sloth/vaimes/rod/last - like, whatever dude. Read these people on behavior and not one of them is towny and i cant believe rhand shot me i gotta message him once i figure out tone for ***** talking
tubba
Also we are all friends here, so play nice
I rollerskate now, that is my thing during these quarantine times. I only fall when going downhill now!
AGAIN: Jack/Umami/Tom/ZDS/Shadow still likely town.
Scum in Phraze/KJ (prob Phraze)
Scum in Last/Rod (Last most likely, but possibly both?)
Vaimes seems townier now, but nothing to hang my nonexistent hat on.
GJ is looking scummier out of the 3 in the townlock group, and I'm really liking the idea of shooting him, but still prefer Phraze.
And if I'm wrong in any of this...I'm still incredibly attractive. Tell them, Last.
I'm thinking dbs. Any final appeals?
It's fine. I just felt like I was being asked direct questions about the same topic(including by you)about why I tracked who I did and I was trying to give direct answers. Being told simultaneously to answer and to stop answering by the same person was just a weird contradiction. Sorry about my response
2. ZeDorkSlipeur — It's hilarious watching the speculations over my role but right now clarifying the game is more important than keeping scum guessing: I'm Jerle Batra, vanilla (Ba-dum tss). This townfirms shadow since he is the only reason I am still alive.
3. Gentleman Johnny — "hard claim watcher shot", possibly implying he was N-shot or is a JOAT-type deal.
5. Jackrito — Claimed vanilla
7. shadowlancerx — Jailer
8. tomsloger — Unknown, townfirmed beyond tinfoil
9. Vaimes — Claimed vanilla, did not target anyone N1 according to Uma
10. Lastwhisper — Claimed vanilla
11. Umami — Tracker
12. M plus 7 Slothful — Claimed vanilla, did not target anyone N2 according to Uma
13. Rodemy — Did he claim anything?
15. Killjoy — Judge
Tubba's role hinted at a rolecop, although at this point I believe the rolecop is either Johnny (if JOAT) or a red herring. I once thought it was Uma (hence that time I had a mysterious reason for thinking Jack was falseclaiming).
Superficial dichotomies are dawning VS KJ and Johnny vs Uma.
dawning+KJ may be an intentional combo (replacing the lynch with a lynch on someone else) and with Johnny+Uma it depends on Johnny's role.
Johnny should fullclaim when he can. If dichotomy there is, I think I'm siding more towards scUmami since her targets aren't great, but it's nowhere near as easy as it was for Tubba VS shadow.
KJ should shoot a claimed vanilla from the POE pool.
vaimes.
2) Shoot a potential RBer, even if it's a shot in the dark. 1) See my speculation that you could both be town.
Can scum governor exist?
Rod begging KJ to shoot a townread (me) is almost pitiful.