Fine, still don't understand why Rodemy isn't an option and why people aren't more suspicious of someone who has repeatedly pushed town for mislynch while boasting that they are super good at the game.
who are we talking about here?
Rodemy is less of an option for me, because after seeing some of his town games here, and on my home site
I could probably go look at his past wolf games
I remember his posts as a wolf being far and in between, and less explosive?
The ability just to consistently switch votes, and give reasoning behind it, over and over, is just something that isn't easy to pull off as mafia
and I just don't see someone trying to push a narrative
“—with his false claim and “gonna shoot in axel/vaimes/grape/KJ” which was never going to happen, I would think there’s probably 1 scum in vaimes/grape/KJ“
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“—with his false claim and “gonna shoot in axel/vaimes/grape/KJ” which was never going to happen, I would think there’s probably 1 scum in vaimes/grape/KJ“
Whispy, out of all the possible Jack-Sloth pairings, which one do you think is most likely? (ie w/w, t/t, w/t, t/w)
Well from the perspective of wagonomics, they both sat pretty much around 3/3, then Jack bumped up, and Sloth pretty much disappeared, then we got a bunch of new wagons, Umami/Rodemy/Vaimes
Jack's wagon had a bunch of voices on it, but that again doesnt say much
wolf!Jack here is probably trying to get a mislynch on town!Umami? instead of voting his partner Sloth?
so ya my brain is waffling on Jack being a wolf here, because I dont see why he is actively trying to see Sloth as possible town here, when its just the mislynch? he needs to live? Which points to the possible W/W pairing of them hard defending each other?
so I don't really thinks its w/t
I think I just convinced myself to solve this
vote: Jackrito
either W/W or T/T
if Jack flips town, Sloth is probably just town as well
and I will have to start figuring this game out
Vaimes is probably a wolf, for lack of motivation? but it could just be caused by the game-state like he said, because it is certainly affecting me as well
Just reread Umani not much changed for me in that reread. Their interactions with Vaimes are gross in the early game far too many compared to other players and weird. How you can have that many interactions with someone and call them town a lot in them, but have that change to a null read is beyond me. I don't do many null reads personally by this point espically those on people I once had as town and are active, that only happens in distancing attempts. The other thing is how much they dropped since day one like I pointed out before. That being said to prove this world to a lot of you. Going to change my vote to Vaimes who I have a stronger case on which I did a couple of days ago and who I said I would want today if possible also.
I'm done just hammer me, I have had enough of defending myself to this nonsense all game. I would self vote but that is something I refuse to do out of principle. maybe my flip will convince people it was possible they were wrong this game. Hell maybe I'm wrong on Sloth and a lot of things this game but at least I can admit it.
unvote
***** this feels genuine.
its NAI
still don't hate an Umami train, and don't hate a Vaimes train
I've concluded that lynching Jack is the best ways to move this game forward, and if he flips wolf, Sloth is probably a wolf with him
and if he is town, they are probably both town
Whispy, out of all the possible Jack-Sloth pairings, which one do you think is most likely? (ie w/w, t/t, w/t, t/w)
Well from the perspective of wagonomics, they both sat pretty much around 3/3, then Jack bumped up, and Sloth pretty much disappeared, then we got a bunch of new wagons, Umami/Rodemy/Vaimes
Jack's wagon had a bunch of voices on it, but that again doesnt say much
wolf!Jack here is probably trying to get a mislynch on town!Umami? instead of voting his partner Sloth?
so ya my brain is waffling on Jack being a wolf here, because I dont see why he is actively trying to see Sloth as possible town here, when its just the mislynch? he needs to live? Which points to the possible W/W pairing of them hard defending each other?
so I don't really thinks its w/t
I think I just convinced myself to solve this
vote: Jackrito
either W/W or T/T
if Jack flips town, Sloth is probably just town as well
and I will have to start figuring this game out
Vaimes is probably a wolf, for lack of motivation? but it could just be caused by the game-state like he said, because it is certainly affecting me as well
After seeing both of our scum games, if you think either of us would not bus the other really not sure what to say. Me fliping town does not make him for sure town also though. Stuff like this is a mistake and can lead to issues in the late game. I personally think he is town, but don't use my town flip to back your own read.
but like what are the wolves doing, if one of you or sloth is a wolf, and the other is town?
they would have to be solely in the lurkers, or they are just waiting it out till EoD, hoping for us to just naturally change?
but like what are the wolves doing, if one of you or sloth is a wolf, and the other is town?
they would have to be solely in the lurkers, or they are just waiting it out till EoD, hoping for us to just naturally change?
Well look at the votes this entire day and where we are I know that I'm town and my wagon has never really died just changed around a lot, look at Sloth and others though they have being in flux in competition with my own. I'm not sure how that has happened so much but it has. A reason for this can be seen as the town confirms or as close to confirmed are all voting me so my wagon will always be strong. In this situation the wolves play around that to try and get a different mislynch today and keep me for the next day. Which is why I semi want to die today because I don't think anything clears me in this POE. Apart from the Umani flip being a wolf, but that will never happen for two reasons because confirmed town like them because she is town and I was wrong, or because she is the deep wolf and has other wolfs to protect her like Vaimes and KJ for example. I never get to endgame so no point for wolf teammates to protect me if I had teammates they should and would bus me here because insane to go aganist town core.
I want you to look at Sloth and tell me if you think that this is like his scum game you just saw, early stuff yes it was the later stuff was very different imo. Use their own content to decide on them not my flip. I could of being pockedted here and Sloth is scum but not seeing it.
next doing Vaimes since he has really being going UTR for me was an early town read, but can't even remember why and now since our POE is small time to review.
First real thing I noticed past the fluff was an light defend of Grape when Wisp questioned why Grape voted ZDS and how much he read, next we have a light defend of Umani from ZDS I'm making note of these because they are others in the POE so good to keep track of. Tbf he has light defends of a couple of people early he pushs Wisp the most early on for Wisp KJ vote and defended KJ in doing so. In the middle of this he asked how people read me which I liked at the time but in review this bothers me a bit. Later changes vote to Umani for the tonal shift and pushs them for thoughts, this is more postive since being less passive and unlikely scum interactions but not impossible. quickly changes to Shadow because thinks UMani wills sort themselves this was mixed in with a read on not lynching me Tom and Wisp day one also KJ and perhaps ZDS but paranoid.
I feel like he was maybe trying to pocket me early after seeing how easy it was for ZDS if scum this would explain him defending me, not just about Vaimes but I feel scum team took differanceing stances on me based off current PoE as a way to distant from each other. 264 feels a little bit too buddy buddy I can do this post as town though this is just me being biased towards Umani to a degree. Their amount of interactions with Umani is insane to a degree though compared to other players. I also find their paranoia on ZDS a bit forced with how much they talk about it. First Tubba interactions are in regards to TOm not town reading them and why that could be felt like a bit of a soft ball question. Had a early defend of M7 also if Sloth flips scum this is a bad look. does a blank vote on Tubba semi makes sense off early reads but still weird says later was following Tom. I can see him as a teammate of Tubba 737 makes me feel that way. Votes ITF without even scum reading them very lazy and just looks like a excuse to be on a lynch and avoid blame.
881 feels like tmi that he knows I'm town like he did in Prison, also just before this his question to Grape feels off. He later says he feels fine writing grape off as town with a couple of others which bothers me. In Tubba vs shadow 1371 is trying to turn this on shadow and is trying to do so more. I feel like this is weird, he also agreed with Toms view to lynch out of the two which is another possible attempt to save teammate. espically ends up on Tubba but he had really given up based off early game I would expect him to not think it wa shadow so much and just be happy on Tubba. He was pretty happy with Sloth being shot though but this is perhaps because it could make him look good if sloth fliped red I'm just being biased here though.
The way he has ended up on me when wanted Sloth shot eariler points to me he thinks this is a good chance to get a mislynch. Anyway overall I think Vaimes is scum here nothing in all of this screamed town to me it just gave me a lot of questions and doubts the way he played the cc claims when voting Tubba before it. How many interactions he had with Umani and was soft defending them biased coming through here because I want to be right lol. The way that they are voting me not sloth who they wanted to shoot eariler. Add that to the early defence of M7 it makes me feel like if sloth is scum Vaimes is also. I just found a real lack of scumhunting in this as well it is just so passive and being there but not doing anything apart from commentary they are very little real pushes. I think Sloth is the lynch today but want to go here tomorrow.
ya these vote shifts just make no sense to me at all
and looking back I kinda want to either lynch Umami or Killjoy
just feels so bad, like if he flips town, the game-state tomorrow is still gonna be awful
I was wondering when Jack would sing the martyr song again. At least this time his life was actually in danger.
I don't know if this behaviour is AI for him, I don't know him enough. I do know his self-meta, that town-Jack plays support and scum-Jack plays powerwolf.
Well, sometimes dying is a good support move (never as great as lynching scum but whatever), as you could see back in Day 1 from ITF's brand of self-sacrifice. In Jack's case, he is such a keystone for worldbuilding, and so hard to lynch despite being on most scumdars and overdramatically begging for his own death several times already, that I expect his lynch to practically seal the game. I would push for his death even without a strong read, like I did earlier toDay to some extent.
Instead, in this latest instance of woeismeism, Jack is purely self-centred. Whatever happens past his death is none of his business, as long as the rest of us get served a lesson. This is something I would expect from someone with high ego (might correspond with scum-Jack), or in this context who expects to lose anyway (would definitely correspond with scum-Jack), not from someone who prides themselves on being a support-type.
Again, I don't know Jack enough to tell if this is AI. But from the little I know, either this is more in line with scum-Jack's (supposed) mentality or he should reconsider his self-meta.
Writing this, I realised Jack is the anti-ITF. ITF was townread by few, his lynch proceeded with oddly few hiccups. Jack is also townread by few, yet getting him lynched is a chore. ITF accepted his death for the info it would be provide, Jack is challenging us to kill him so he can have peace and the satisfaction of proving us wrong. They are not the same person, yes, but the parallel is still uncanny.
Because its not like
Figuring out what world we're living in
I dont have superbly strong opinions about vaimes teams. Or whos trying to mislynch him if hes town. Or
Anything really
Hes just there
Which probably makes him more likely scum but its not very good info
With a jack lynch i feel like i know what to do (or at least what to look at) next, for both eventualities
Umami-wants to lynch jack. Also started a counterwagon to jack lol
Dawning- ...
~~~~~
Last: has voted 3 counterwagons to jack (and jack)
Rodemy: has voted 3 counterwagons to Jack (and Jack)
Vaimes: has voted 2 counterwagons to jack (and jack)
Sloth: consistently townreads jack (sans reasons)
KJ: voted once all day, joining sloth wagon the post after he passed jack for lead wagon
Umami-wants to lynch jack. Also started a counterwagon to jack lol
Dawning- ...
~~~~~
Last: has voted 3 counterwagons to jack (and jack)
Rodemy: has voted 3 counterwagons to Jack (and Jack)
Vaimes: has voted 2 counterwagons to jack (and jack)
Sloth: consistently townreads jack (sans reasons)
KJ: voted once all day, joining sloth wagon the post after he passed jack for lead wagon
Ok lynching Jack, but would rather see Sloth or KJ swing. Having doubts about umani's towniness, but Umani/Jack never w/w.
I have never seen a judge ability outside of that one mafia/witch card game, but that feels like a weird claim to fake. I just don't think it necessarily means it's a town role.
I'll reread KJ, but I distinctly remember coming away with a stronger townread than I was expecting. And a little after that Axelrod did an ISO of KJ and also came away with a [pretty confident, need to recheck] townread that made me feel a thousand times better about it.
Let me correct that a bit: ime governors can either pardon someone, or choose a different lynch target. Which doesn't sound that different from judge, who just kills someone if town doesn't lynch at all.
And the role doesn't reeeeally make sense as a scum one to me. No lynch already punishes the town, and I would think that the role was designed to give us a second chance rather than twist the knife deeper and give scum a completely free shot at someone.
I dont remember seeing judge outside of a hunt (where its always a role that can be randed to either alignment)
But i imagine its plausible
His particular condition as claimed is pretty objectively less useful for town, but that also would make it harder to use how you want as scum
I really dont think its worth reading into the role in a vacuum. Its likely fake to some degree if hes scum and absolutely not worth testing (rolecopping, sure. But not testing)
Might be worth reading into it *within the setup*
But im not sure im there yet
Either way
We dont lynch someone that was jailed on a night with a kill and a roleblock
Thats just bad gambling
Sloth and Jack have many buddy tells, to the point one of them might intentionally be hamming it up (I don't know which one) to muddy up the other, but I think it will be easier to tell Sloth's side from Jack's flip than the other way around.
Also Sloth almost got insta-lynched earlier, I don't know what that means but it's got to mean something.
who are we talking about here?
Rodemy is less of an option for me, because after seeing some of his town games here, and on my home site
I could probably go look at his past wolf games
I remember his posts as a wolf being far and in between, and less explosive?
The ability just to consistently switch votes, and give reasoning behind it, over and over, is just something that isn't easy to pull off as mafia
and I just don't see someone trying to push a narrative
Well from the perspective of wagonomics, they both sat pretty much around 3/3, then Jack bumped up, and Sloth pretty much disappeared, then we got a bunch of new wagons, Umami/Rodemy/Vaimes
Jack's wagon had a bunch of voices on it, but that again doesnt say much
wolf!Jack here is probably trying to get a mislynch on town!Umami? instead of voting his partner Sloth?
so ya my brain is waffling on Jack being a wolf here, because I dont see why he is actively trying to see Sloth as possible town here, when its just the mislynch? he needs to live? Which points to the possible W/W pairing of them hard defending each other?
so I don't really thinks its w/t
I think I just convinced myself to solve this
vote: Jackrito
either W/W or T/T
if Jack flips town, Sloth is probably just town as well
and I will have to start figuring this game out
Vaimes is probably a wolf, for lack of motivation? but it could just be caused by the game-state like he said, because it is certainly affecting me as well
btw (I think)
Vote Vaimes
still don't hate an Umami train, and don't hate a Vaimes train
I've concluded that lynching Jack is the best ways to move this game forward, and if he flips wolf, Sloth is probably a wolf with him
and if he is town, they are probably both town
After seeing both of our scum games, if you think either of us would not bus the other really not sure what to say. Me fliping town does not make him for sure town also though. Stuff like this is a mistake and can lead to issues in the late game. I personally think he is town, but don't use my town flip to back your own read.
they would have to be solely in the lurkers, or they are just waiting it out till EoD, hoping for us to just naturally change?
where is your vaimes scum case? Tried to find it in your iso
Jesus christ this game state
Well look at the votes this entire day and where we are I know that I'm town and my wagon has never really died just changed around a lot, look at Sloth and others though they have being in flux in competition with my own. I'm not sure how that has happened so much but it has. A reason for this can be seen as the town confirms or as close to confirmed are all voting me so my wagon will always be strong. In this situation the wolves play around that to try and get a different mislynch today and keep me for the next day. Which is why I semi want to die today because I don't think anything clears me in this POE. Apart from the Umani flip being a wolf, but that will never happen for two reasons because confirmed town like them because she is town and I was wrong, or because she is the deep wolf and has other wolfs to protect her like Vaimes and KJ for example. I never get to endgame so no point for wolf teammates to protect me if I had teammates they should and would bus me here because insane to go aganist town core.
I want you to look at Sloth and tell me if you think that this is like his scum game you just saw, early stuff yes it was the later stuff was very different imo. Use their own content to decide on them not my flip. I could of being pockedted here and Sloth is scum but not seeing it.
vote: Vaimes
or Umami
5 posts later
That entire page is just weird how it happened.
vote: Umami
Jack (4): Zds, tom, Vaimes, umami
Vaimes (4): shadow, Rodemy, jack, last
KJ (1): Sloth
Not Voting - 3 (DawningBlueSky, Gentleman Johnny, Killjoy)
and looking back I kinda want to either lynch Umami or Killjoy
just feels so bad, like if he flips town, the game-state tomorrow is still gonna be awful
wtf man
sigh
I am going to sleep
I take back what I said on about not wanting to vote Vaimes
its probably like Vaimes/Umami/X
I don't know if this behaviour is AI for him, I don't know him enough. I do know his self-meta, that town-Jack plays support and scum-Jack plays powerwolf.
Well, sometimes dying is a good support move (never as great as lynching scum but whatever), as you could see back in Day 1 from ITF's brand of self-sacrifice. In Jack's case, he is such a keystone for worldbuilding, and so hard to lynch despite being on most scumdars and overdramatically begging for his own death several times already, that I expect his lynch to practically seal the game. I would push for his death even without a strong read, like I did earlier toDay to some extent.
Instead, in this latest instance of woeismeism, Jack is purely self-centred. Whatever happens past his death is none of his business, as long as the rest of us get served a lesson. This is something I would expect from someone with high ego (might correspond with scum-Jack), or in this context who expects to lose anyway (would definitely correspond with scum-Jack), not from someone who prides themselves on being a support-type.
Again, I don't know Jack enough to tell if this is AI. But from the little I know, either this is more in line with scum-Jack's (supposed) mentality or he should reconsider his self-meta.
Writing this, I realised Jack is the anti-ITF. ITF was townread by few, his lynch proceeded with oddly few hiccups. Jack is also townread by few, yet getting him lynched is a chore. ITF accepted his death for the info it would be provide, Jack is challenging us to kill him so he can have peace and the satisfaction of proving us wrong. They are not the same person, yes, but the parallel is still uncanny.
---
In that case what's your KJ read?
---
We get almost nothing info-wise from a Vaimes lynch so anyone voting him at this point should have a really strong scumread on him.
But the lynch seems like a cop out a little
Because its not like
Figuring out what world we're living in
I dont have superbly strong opinions about vaimes teams. Or whos trying to mislynch him if hes town. Or
Anything really
Hes just there
Which probably makes him more likely scum but its not very good info
With a jack lynch i feel like i know what to do (or at least what to look at) next, for both eventualities
That jacks alignment doesnt necessarily matter because just...
Between the poe and the wagons today:
That scum factually dont want to lynch jack
And it doesnt matter if thats because hes their partner or some more complicated reason
Zds-wants to lynch jack
Shadow-sometimes is ok with lynching Jack
Johnny- ...
~~~~~
Umami-wants to lynch jack. Also started a counterwagon to jack lol
Dawning- ...
~~~~~
Last: has voted 3 counterwagons to jack (and jack)
Rodemy: has voted 3 counterwagons to Jack (and Jack)
Vaimes: has voted 2 counterwagons to jack (and jack)
Sloth: consistently townreads jack (sans reasons)
KJ: voted once all day, joining sloth wagon the post after he passed jack for lead wagon
Ok lynching Jack, but would rather see Sloth or KJ swing. Having doubts about umani's towniness, but Umani/Jack never w/w.
I have never seen a judge ability outside of that one mafia/witch card game, but that feels like a weird claim to fake. I just don't think it necessarily means it's a town role.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
And the role doesn't reeeeally make sense as a scum one to me. No lynch already punishes the town, and I would think that the role was designed to give us a second chance rather than twist the knife deeper and give scum a completely free shot at someone.
Judge condemns
Go back to civics class nerd
But i imagine its plausible
His particular condition as claimed is pretty objectively less useful for town, but that also would make it harder to use how you want as scum
I really dont think its worth reading into the role in a vacuum. Its likely fake to some degree if hes scum and absolutely not worth testing (rolecopping, sure. But not testing)
Might be worth reading into it *within the setup*
But im not sure im there yet
Either way
We dont lynch someone that was jailed on a night with a kill and a roleblock
Thats just bad gambling
I lol'd.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Also Sloth almost got insta-lynched earlier, I don't know what that means but it's got to mean something.
"Vote for Vaimes" = "Vote for victory"
"Victory" = "Vaimes"
But "Vote" = "Vote to lynch"
Therefore "Vote for Vaimes" = "Vote to lynch victory"
Rodemy wants to lose
---
V/LA tomorrow
Don't you guys let Vaimes convince you to test KJ's claim.
Along that vein, I have some misgivings, but for the sake of moving this game forward:
Vote Jack
Gonna put out some thoughts at some point in case I don’t make it through the night.