Oramen shook his head. “Just the way Tove said ‘Not me’, when . . .” He wiped his face with one hand. “And before, when we were at the door . . .” He stared up at the ceiling for a few moments, then shook his head decisively. “No. What am I saying? He was my best friend. He could not.” He shivered. “Great grief, the man dies in my place and I look to blame him.” He drank again.
“Steady, young man,” Fanthile said, smiling, nodding at the glass.
Oramen looked at the glass, appeared to be about to argue, then set it down on the table between them.
“The blame is mine, Fanthile,” he said. “I sent Tove first through that door, and I was stupid enough to finish off the one I’d hit first in the chest. Through him we might have discovered who sent them.”
“You think they were sent, by somebody else?”
“I doubt they were just loitering around the courtyard waiting to rob the first person to come through that door.”
What claim exactly my role? If it is this whatever reasons you think that you you have are wrong
Can you translate this into English?
A bit rude but sure. If you think my role of Vanilla town is fake which it is not. Give your reason to back it up because they should be nothing that you have that can prove otherwise.
Tom is confirmed
Shadow being a wolf here means that both Tubba and him targeted ZDS? and they were playing someone kind of scum theater because town!GJ softed he had information. Actually scratch that, Shadow has to be real here, for the same reason ZDS is real
GJ being a wolf here means he is real, and double stacked the target? ZDS with Tubba, then immediately softed this information knowing Tubba probably dies here??? I guess the other world is he GJ lied, but idk what information he has, that explains why he throws tubba under the buss here
ZDS is actually confirmed here, because Tubba could not possibly target outside doing the KP, and no mod allows wolves to put the factional KP on their teammates
so out of the 3, GJ can still be a wolf
its pretty insane tinfoil, and not something I am thinking about, till like F7 or later
Except that I knew Shadow targeted him (obviously I would know where my nk would have gotten).
I guess what I don't get is the point of that tinfoil? Like yes, if I am still alive in 2-3 days with how the nks fall, look at me with suspicioun. But the day after my results yield fruit, the body guard almost certainly made the correct call (unless you want to argue that Axel is scare enough and just happened to be the nk target).
Why tinfoil that at all, or mention it at all at this stage?
I mean, out of the three, tom is the only one modconfirmed. So nyeh? @LW
If you showed as much fire on your umami "tunnel" as youre showing about your vanilla town claim, you might not be in this predicament
Well the main reason for that being I know I'm VT. They is no way for Me to know who is scum. Also sick of hearing about my Umani tunnel everytime it gets thrown at me. Is it not possible for town to lack conviction on day one.
Oramen shook his head. “Just the way Tove said ‘Not me’, when . . .” He wiped his face with one hand. “And before, when we were at the door . . .” He stared up at the ceiling for a few moments, then shook his head decisively. “No. What am I saying? He was my best friend. He could not.” He shivered. “Great grief, the man dies in my place and I look to blame him.” He drank again.
“Steady, young man,” Fanthile said, smiling, nodding at the glass.
Oramen looked at the glass, appeared to be about to argue, then set it down on the table between them.
“The blame is mine, Fanthile,” he said. “I sent Tove first through that door, and I was stupid enough to finish off the one I’d hit first in the chest. Through him we might have discovered who sent them.”
“You think they were sent, by somebody else?”
“I doubt they were just loitering around the courtyard waiting to rob the first person to come through that door.”
Jack, what are you going to do if I give my reasons? Argue against them? How do you plan on arguing that you really are vanilla?
There are many reasons why I could believe you aren't VT, and you can't prove any of them "otherwise", because proving a VT claim (without outside help) is impossible. The best you could do is show how VT-like your play is, and you don't need me to reveal anything in order to do that.
ITF (actual VT) didn't get pissed when I suggested he was falseclaiming (back then for flavour reasons). He knew his role and that was it.
---
Tubba and Axel still live in the votecounts, Rhand lives in the playerlist.
I mean, saying someone you don't believe someone is VT is just strange to say as well. Like, ya. You don't believe they are town. That's why they are telling you their role...
I feel weird today, or all of you are. Absolutely one of those two choices.
If you showed as much fire on your umami "tunnel" as youre showing about your vanilla town claim, you might not be in this predicament
Well the main reason for that being I know I'm VT. They is no way for Me to know who is scum. Also sick of hearing about my Umani tunnel everytime it gets thrown at me. Is it not possible for town to lack conviction on day one.
its certainly possible for townies to lack conviction. The problem is very much that you lacked conviction *while calling it a tunnel*
Thats what makes it a fake read imo, and this is pretty much you admitting im right?
If you showed as much fire on your umami "tunnel" as youre showing about your vanilla town claim, you might not be in this predicament
Well the main reason for that being I know I'm VT. They is no way for Me to know who is scum. Also sick of hearing about my Umani tunnel everytime it gets thrown at me. Is it not possible for town to lack conviction on day one.
its certainly possible for townies to lack conviction. The problem is very much that you lacked conviction *while calling it a tunnel*
Thats what makes it a fake read imo, and this is pretty much you admitting im right?
It's not a fake read if I don't believe it 100 per cent. My reads are rarely that certain unless I have proof to show other wise. Your view of a tunnel is different then mine is the issue.
I called it a tunnel because I was stuck on the idea of them being scum. The key word here is idea. I realized that read was watering my in thread time because you all townread them so forced myself elsewhere.
I'm not like most of you it seems I'm plagued by self doubt and lack confidence in my town game so can't force the issue unless it is more in the late game. You all only have 1 game exp with me you don't know how hard I can push pepole and in the early game I was being lazy because focused elsewhere. I said this day one.
Jack, what are you going to do if I give my reasons? Argue against them? How do you plan on arguing that you really are vanilla?
There are many reasons why I could believe you aren't VT, and you can't prove any of them "otherwise", because proving a VT claim (without outside help) is impossible. The best you could do is show how VT-like your play is, and you don't need me to reveal anything in order to do that.
ITF (actual VT) didn't get pissed when I suggested he was falseclaiming (back then for flavour reasons). He knew his role and that was it.
---
Tubba and Axel still live in the votecounts, Rhand lives in the playerlist.
Yes I will agrue them because you are wrong. I can't agrue it well because impossible to prove like you say,but I'm not just going to sit here and be called s liar with vague reasons.
I have asked to die to help the game state that is my proof of my VT state that you asked for my role has no purpose and so I played as such not my normal style but being going in weird defeatist spirals not sure why though.
Answer me this what do you think I am if lying. Don't just say scum
ITF Train: (50-75% chance of successful lynch)
2-3 scum in the following: Jack, Rod, Vaimes, KJ
Off train: (0-50% change of successful lynch)
0-1 scum in the following: Sloth, Grape
Shadow why in the world would you not want to lynch someone on the ITF train, it’s just ridiculous not to. It's taking additional risk with no reward, especially since Tom, who has been all like we need to kill the roleblocker from the beginning believes Sloth isn't the roleblocker and the roleblocker is bussing
Sure, Sloth is busy with real life and hasn’t been here, but it’s freaking day 3, that’s not a reason to lynch someone. Like if sloth shows up and says I will not be here for the entire duration of the game that’s one thing, but schedules change and to lynch someone because you don’t have a read when we have a list of suspicious people for things they’ve actually done is just annoying. If you’re saying sloth should sub out, then just say that, but don’t lynch him for it.
oh please lynch this.
Umami you can’t do percentages without you being included, *sad face*
Also that is a preposterous way to do them.
vote Umami.
And I am gonna go over who pushed that she was towncleared. We need to revisit Umami.
Private Mod Note
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Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
@Tom/ZDS: can I interest either of you in a Last Lynch?
I don’t really think Jack is the scum roleblocker; he was advocating his own death day 1, which indicates that even if he’s scum, he didn’t have a solid claim to back himself up. And if Sloth is scum, he seems the designated bus target, suggesting he’s not the roleblocker either.
Last on the other hand isn’t getting pushed, by like anyone. This actually also applies to Vaimes as well to an extent.
Come join me on Last, he’s well in the PoE and this day doesn’t have to be about Sloth/Jack only.
@GJ
I talked about it because Tom referred to himself as the only confirmed, which I guess if he want to be technical that is true
and given everything, you technically arent confirmed, but the play here for you to be mafia would be utter garbage
and because Sloth talked about you being his "tinfoil" wolf
ZDS is just always town here
and I think shadow is always town here too, for the same reason
I am not worried about any of these right now, or you
ZDS is like 100% town here
unless Tubba really didnt visit him, which would go against your claim
because they were a vanilla mafia role which means, for them to have visited ZDS, they had to be holding the night KP
which 100% makes ZDS town, cause no mod lets wolves use their factional KP on their own partners regardless of their abilities
I'm not crazy right?
Wasn't one of the first posts this game about Vaimes seeming town because he actually looked like he cared and was trying to solve? Is anyone still thinking this to be the case because the word for his latest posts is apathy.
Not sure that's AI for him, @Vaimes, what's up with that?
Wasn't one of the first posts this game about Vaimes seeming town because he actually looked like he cared and was trying to solve? Is anyone still thinking this to be the case because the word for his latest posts is apathy.
Not sure that's AI for him, @Vaimes, what's up with that?
that wasn't probably one of my posts? but like with Vaimes is mostly consistency, and ya I don't really think he is town right now, he fell off hard
ZDS is like 100% town here
unless Tubba really didnt visit him, which would go against your claim
because they were a vanilla mafia role which means, for them to have visited ZDS, they had to be holding the night KP
which 100% makes ZDS town, cause no mod lets wolves use their factional KP on their own partners regardless of their abilities
I'm not crazy right?
what the absolute **** is this flavor of wine?
Private Mod Note
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
wth is this, you can't do PoE's/percentages, without adding yourself in there?
excuse me?
I think Vaimes also made that jab at me, without actually calling me a wolf
less forceful than Rod's read
Rod's posts are like varying degrees of, "Does Rod believe this", or, "is rod pushing this maliciously"
Except that I knew Shadow targeted him (obviously I would know where my nk would have gotten).
Reasons and possibilities aside, we only have your word that you actually knew Shadow had targeted ZDS, where scum would definitely know that something happened to prevent the kill.
Then you hinted that you had seen something in a way you later claimed was meant to be subtle but no one at all found to be subtle (regardless of your alignment, I actually think you wanted it clear for people) and Shadow reacted in a way that clearly indicated that, yes, he had been the one to protect ZDS.
That is a more factual description of the events that unfolded.
Just...let's not talk about this right now. I am well aware that I have a penchant to favor outlandish theories 'cause I like mindgames and want the game to be more clever than it is.
I'm trying to change that so I don't want to get too involved on this possibility until I have to, which certainly isn't now, and your responses to it are like custom-made to get me to obsess.
ZDS is like 100% town here
unless Tubba really didnt visit him, which would go against your claim
because they were a vanilla mafia role which means, for them to have visited ZDS, they had to be holding the night KP
which 100% makes ZDS town, cause no mod lets wolves use their factional KP on their own partners regardless of their abilities
I'm not crazy right?
what the absolute **** is this flavor of wine?
That's part of a response to a prompt I brought up.
Btw, don't you think I'm scum?
I get that Umami's a higher priority right now, but while I'm here, don't you want to figure me out?
For reasons I will not give, I believe Jack's claim is a lie.
Hah. I know you're not softing something here. Perfectly happy with your VT claim.
Alternatively, if you are saying you have solid, definite proof of the alignment of a player that was already being dragged to the chopping block alongside me, I guess the only question that matters is why bring this up now if the answer is a definite yes, because I think that's the only way I vote Jack unless I have to self-pres.
For reasons I will not give, I believe Jack's claim is a lie.
Hah. I know you're not softing something here. Perfectly happy with your VT claim.
Alternatively, if you are saying you have solid, definite proof of the alignment of a player that was already being dragged to the chopping block alongside me, I guess the only question that matters is why bring this up now if the answer is a definite yes, because I think that's the only way I vote Jack unless I have to self-pres.
What makes you so sure that I'm town that it would take that much to vote me? I saw you mentioned my wall of isos, before but I could fake that as scum tbh. Grape saw me do it in a recentish game where I replaced in on the last day.
@GJ
I talked about it because Tom referred to himself as the only confirmed, which I guess if he want to be technical that is true
and given everything, you technically arent confirmed, but the play here for you to be mafia would be utter garbage
and because Sloth talked about you being his "tinfoil" wolf
On that note, why did you elaborate more on that after you had already gotten the cookie?
...I love mafia. It's the only place I can ask these sort of questions with complete seriousness.
I would normally not take this stance on an confirmed town but past caring what others think. Espically when being called a liar off someone.
I don't believe scum!Jack has the moxie to stand on this hill and call out ZDS with this conviction.
This is based off of one game and just conversation with him on specs, so take that as you will, but unless <redacted> I'm cool with his vanilla claim and he's fine to me.
If I'm wrong: Hello, I'll be your Lagoon this game.
Since we are talking about the percentage post, I'm not big on the knowledge of them never done one and don't ever intent to. Percentages can be shaped by who ever does them to suit their argument imo. My example of this is Umani saying they is 0-50 of hitting scum in Grape Sloth is they not a world where both can be scum and it would be 100. Or am I just insane here. If that is wrong to begin with it would mean the percentage is wrong already for those on the ITF wagon. Also not sure why, Wisp can't be scum in the ITF wagon unless I missed Umani explaining why Wisp is town at some point that is another way to shape it in her favor.
What makes you so sure that I'm town that it would take that much to vote me? I saw you mentioned my wall of isos, before but I could fake that as scum tbh. Grape saw me do it in a recentish game where I replaced in on the last day.
Actually just answered this.
You wall of ISOs had very little to do with it.
To be clear, you're not my strongest townread ever. But there are so many I would lynch before you.
I mean I certainly put more thought into after thinking about it
you mentioning it kinda feels like if GJ is a wolf, then you are a wolf with him?
@Sloth
did you ever give "your" thoughts on your tinfoil?
Did a little in 2584, but haven't gone over the whole thing anywhere yet, nor do I plan to for stated reasons.
You're suggesting I would shade my nigh conf!town scumbuddy, possibly weaken his position in the game with a surprisingly plausible argument and ruin what was, if true, a carefully executed plan that probably required quite a bit of work? In order to gain what? Some distancing he didn't need and spreading some chaos and discord?
Yeah, that sounds like me.
It isn't though. I'd go all out if it were, rather than just bring it up in vague terms.
Umami you can’t do percentages without you being included, *sad face*
Also that is a preposterous way to do them.
vote Umami.
And I am gonna go over who pushed that she was towncleared. We need to revisit Umami.
I am not a %s guy, so I'm not even going to bother - but show me, what is the correct way to do this analysis?
percents don’t work like that. Especially that off wagon. You can’t l exclude one person and base your percentages off 100%. Also percentages change in circumstance. Like off wagon does not have a 1 in 2 chance to hit scum. It has a 1 in 3 chance. She didn’t include herself so it’s not accurate. And using that kind of deceit is not very townie.
Yeah you still have a high chance to hit scum, but that’s assuming all scum is on the ITF wagon.
It could be both sloth and umami and grape are the last 3 scum and that would change all of the percentages.
I just don’t like when people try to math their way to victory. From what I believe via the ways of seppel, people who do math are typically scum
Private Mod Note
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Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Sloth isn't doing great, there's no depth to his posts, but I think Jack is a better lynch even if not by a huge margin.
...Again?
But mostly still think theyre both wolves, separately and together
“Steady, young man,” Fanthile said, smiling, nodding at the glass.
Oramen looked at the glass, appeared to be about to argue, then set it down on the table between them.
“The blame is mine, Fanthile,” he said. “I sent Tove first through that door, and I was stupid enough to finish off the one I’d hit first in the chest. Through him we might have discovered who sent them.”
“You think they were sent, by somebody else?”
“I doubt they were just loitering around the courtyard waiting to rob the first person to come through that door.”
Slothful - 3 (Rodemy, Lastwhisper, Killjoy)
Lastwhisper - 1 (shadowlancerx)
Killjoy - 1 (Slothful)
Not Voting - 4 (Grapefruit21, Gentleman Johnny, Jackrito, Vaimes)
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to achieve a majority.
Day 3 ends at 11:59:59 PM Eastern Time on 16 May 2020.
Announcement // Votes Reset
Vote Count 3.1
Vote Count 3.2
Vote Count 2.1
Vote Count 2.2
Vote Count 2.3
Vote Count 2.4
Vote Count 2.5
Vote Count 2.6 [Final]
End of Day 2
Vote Count 1.1
Vote Count 1.2
Vote Count 1.3
Vote Count 1.4
Vote Count 1.5
Vote Count 1.6
Vote Count 1.7
Vote Count 1.8
Vote Count 1.9
Vote Count 1.10 [Final]
End of Day 1
If your vote is uncounted and I didn't say why, please PM me or DM me on Discord so I can investigate.
What claim exactly my role? If it is this whatever reasons you think that you you have are wrong
Also yes again if Sloth is actually going to play I'm going to let him play. I don't town read him but still intrested in what he has to say
Unless it’s something having to do with role information, but even then you’re pretty low on the list to die atm.
Meh, you don’t really have to answer this if you think it’s best you don’t.
Bussing should work this game (in the short term)
Can you translate this into English?
A bit rude but sure. If you think my role of Vanilla town is fake which it is not. Give your reason to back it up because they should be nothing that you have that can prove otherwise.
Except that I knew Shadow targeted him (obviously I would know where my nk would have gotten).
I guess what I don't get is the point of that tinfoil? Like yes, if I am still alive in 2-3 days with how the nks fall, look at me with suspicioun. But the day after my results yield fruit, the body guard almost certainly made the correct call (unless you want to argue that Axel is scare enough and just happened to be the nk target).
Why tinfoil that at all, or mention it at all at this stage?
I mean, out of the three, tom is the only one modconfirmed. So nyeh? @LW
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Well the main reason for that being I know I'm VT. They is no way for Me to know who is scum. Also sick of hearing about my Umani tunnel everytime it gets thrown at me. Is it not possible for town to lack conviction on day one.
....Is Tubba still alive?
Also Sloth > Jack, but I don't hate either wagon.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
There are many reasons why I could believe you aren't VT, and you can't prove any of them "otherwise", because proving a VT claim (without outside help) is impossible. The best you could do is show how VT-like your play is, and you don't need me to reveal anything in order to do that.
ITF (actual VT) didn't get pissed when I suggested he was falseclaiming (back then for flavour reasons). He knew his role and that was it.
---
Tubba and Axel still live in the votecounts, Rhand lives in the playerlist.
At least Rhand seems to have stayed dead
Vote count will be corrected momentarily
I feel weird today, or all of you are. Absolutely one of those two choices.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Thats what makes it a fake read imo, and this is pretty much you admitting im right?
It's not a fake read if I don't believe it 100 per cent. My reads are rarely that certain unless I have proof to show other wise. Your view of a tunnel is different then mine is the issue.
I called it a tunnel because I was stuck on the idea of them being scum. The key word here is idea. I realized that read was watering my in thread time because you all townread them so forced myself elsewhere.
I'm not like most of you it seems I'm plagued by self doubt and lack confidence in my town game so can't force the issue unless it is more in the late game. You all only have 1 game exp with me you don't know how hard I can push pepole and in the early game I was being lazy because focused elsewhere. I said this day one.
Yes I will agrue them because you are wrong. I can't agrue it well because impossible to prove like you say,but I'm not just going to sit here and be called s liar with vague reasons.
I have asked to die to help the game state that is my proof of my VT state that you asked for my role has no purpose and so I played as such not my normal style but being going in weird defeatist spirals not sure why though.
Answer me this what do you think I am if lying. Don't just say scum
oh please lynch this.
Umami you can’t do percentages without you being included, *sad face*
Also that is a preposterous way to do them.
vote Umami.
And I am gonna go over who pushed that she was towncleared. We need to revisit Umami.
Tom that was gross and you know it.
I don’t really think Jack is the scum roleblocker; he was advocating his own death day 1, which indicates that even if he’s scum, he didn’t have a solid claim to back himself up. And if Sloth is scum, he seems the designated bus target, suggesting he’s not the roleblocker either.
Last on the other hand isn’t getting pushed, by like anyone. This actually also applies to Vaimes as well to an extent.
Come join me on Last, he’s well in the PoE and this day doesn’t have to be about Sloth/Jack only.
I talked about it because Tom referred to himself as the only confirmed, which I guess if he want to be technical that is true
and given everything, you technically arent confirmed, but the play here for you to be mafia would be utter garbage
and because Sloth talked about you being his "tinfoil" wolf
ZDS is just always town here
and I think shadow is always town here too, for the same reason
I am not worried about any of these right now, or you
@Shadow
but how does that make me a wolf?
ZDS is like 99% info related town.
You can surely tell the difference between mechanically cleared vs behavior.
I was about to say stop quipping over technicalities, but here I go.
@Sloth:
Who are the wolves right now?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
unless Tubba really didnt visit him, which would go against your claim
because they were a vanilla mafia role which means, for them to have visited ZDS, they had to be holding the night KP
which 100% makes ZDS town, cause no mod lets wolves use their factional KP on their own partners regardless of their abilities
I'm not crazy right?
Not sure that's AI for him, @Vaimes, what's up with that?
what the absolute **** is this flavor of wine?
excuse me?
I think Vaimes also made that jab at me, without actually calling me a wolf
less forceful than Rod's read
Rod's posts are like varying degrees of, "Does Rod believe this", or, "is rod pushing this maliciously"
I wanna try to finish Trails in the Sky SC today
Then you hinted that you had seen something in a way you later claimed was meant to be subtle but no one at all found to be subtle (regardless of your alignment, I actually think you wanted it clear for people) and Shadow reacted in a way that clearly indicated that, yes, he had been the one to protect ZDS.
That is a more factual description of the events that unfolded.
Just...let's not talk about this right now. I am well aware that I have a penchant to favor outlandish theories 'cause I like mindgames and want the game to be more clever than it is.
I'm trying to change that so I don't want to get too involved on this possibility until I have to, which certainly isn't now, and your responses to it are like custom-made to get me to obsess.
Btw, don't you think I'm scum?
I get that Umami's a higher priority right now, but while I'm here, don't you want to figure me out?
Alternatively, if you are saying you have solid, definite proof of the alignment of a player that was already being dragged to the chopping block alongside me, I guess the only question that matters is
why bring this up nowif the answer is a definite yes, because I think that's the only way I vote Jack unless I have to self-pres.What makes you so sure that I'm town that it would take that much to vote me? I saw you mentioned my wall of isos, before but I could fake that as scum tbh. Grape saw me do it in a recentish game where I replaced in on the last day.
...I love mafia. It's the only place I can ask these sort of questions with complete seriousness.
This is based off of one game and just conversation with him on specs, so take that as you will, but unless <redacted> I'm cool with his vanilla claim and he's fine to me.
If I'm wrong: Hello, I'll be your Lagoon this game.You wall of ISOs had very little to do with it.
To be clear, you're not my strongest townread ever. But there are so many I would lynch before you.
you mentioning it kinda feels like if GJ is a wolf, then you are a wolf with him?
@Sloth
did you ever give "your" thoughts on your tinfoil?
You're suggesting I would shade my nigh conf!town scumbuddy, possibly weaken his position in the game with a surprisingly plausible argument and ruin what was, if true, a carefully executed plan that probably required quite a bit of work? In order to gain what? Some distancing he didn't need and spreading some chaos and discord?
Yeah, that sounds like me.
It isn't though. I'd go all out if it were, rather than just bring it up in vague terms.
percents don’t work like that. Especially that off wagon. You can’t l exclude one person and base your percentages off 100%. Also percentages change in circumstance. Like off wagon does not have a 1 in 2 chance to hit scum. It has a 1 in 3 chance. She didn’t include herself so it’s not accurate. And using that kind of deceit is not very townie.
Yeah you still have a high chance to hit scum, but that’s assuming all scum is on the ITF wagon.
It could be both sloth and umami and grape are the last 3 scum and that would change all of the percentages.
I just don’t like when people try to math their way to victory. From what I believe via the ways of seppel, people who do math are typically scum
Thats what not including yourself in a poe is. You absolutely get to do that. Its standard.
Get out of here with that and the general idea that using math is scummy.
Umami doesnt have reliable premises imo. But that math post follows logic from those premises reasonably
@Last: that’s not what makes you scum, but it plays into your thoughts on your potential.