Damn it I don't think I'll be able to pay thoughts at a computer before Night unless Silver delays it by like to hours. I guess break Time thoughts will game to do.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Have been reading Jackrito. My notes can be distilled down to:
I think he's fine?
Early (non-random but only slightly above) vote on Umami is whatever. He sticks with it for a long time, converting a weak vote into a stronger one, but also recognizes this fact.
I like his early paranoia of ZDS from another game where scum-ZDS apparently got the better of him.
Slight red flag when he first lists ITF as one of his top town, but then it flipped completely into what appeared a strong scum read after a review, at a time when ITF was getting heat. So, that's a bit of a yikes. He seems to say the reason for the mis-read came from looking at ITF in ISO before and not in "full." Grape went into this a bit with Jack already. I feel like Jacks explanation was okay.
I mostly appreciated his "reads" posts on player. They showed some decent thought behind them (excepting, of course, the complete miss-fire in regards to myself). It raises the concern that sometimes he seems like he's paying more attention than others, but I don't think that's really a scum indicator. It might even help pseudo-explain his complete flip on ITF. But it's a difficult style to read because it's inconsistent.
Then he got all fatalistic on himself from seemingly out of nowhere? Maybe there were a couple of people saying they didn't like him? But to throw up your hands and go please just lynch me or vig me rather than me have to argue with people. It's a bit over the top and maybe too concerned about other people's views of him? I fee like I can put that down to a personality thing at least for the moment.
The last thing is a meta thing I can't really judge, which is the suggestion that (as Town) he's more "hedgey" than he has been this game - and Jack seems to acknowledge this, and says that he's actually making an effort to be less hedgey this game, thus explaining the difference. I'm probably less of a fan of this explanation just because I feel like conscious attempts to change one's playstyle are (1) rare, and (2) usually don't work anyway. But I guess it's possible.
Aside from that, I don't see anything too bad here. Not yet at least.
I'm reading this in Axel's voice btw.
I think Axel is probably more likely town than not now that I understand his play style a little better. We have very different styles generally, so hes usually either underwhelming or barking up the wrong tree or things like this which seem to just be tangential to whatever else is going on.
I usually read posts like this as cases to show others a played findings on a player, bit I think this is more Axel's attempt too organize his own thoughts.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I don't think Jack sounds as pure as he did in the last game. I'm not sure it necessarily means he's scum though. I plan to read the game overnight now and I'll have a better opinion then
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I think Axel is probably more likely town than not now that I understand his play style a little better. We have very different styles generally, so hes usually either underwhelming or barking up the wrong tree or things like this which seem to just be tangential to whatever else is going on.
I think I resent this.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Jack: your wobble on hammering read as pure. Would still like an answer to my question about sloth.
My bad thought that I did. Well not much should change off Sloth, if he did nothing some people might think less of them, but not going to debate it. You are consistent I guess, even though it is off a not serious read. My issue is that you still have a non serious one in your top 3, Reasons you gave eariler though about reads not having time to simmer is fair though.
I think Axel is probably more likely town than not now that I understand his play style a little better. We have very different styles generally, so hes usually either underwhelming or barking up the wrong tree or things like this which seem to just be tangential to whatever else is going on.
I think I resent this.
lol
My point is part of the reason I scum read you is because you're in your own head and I shouldn't I don't think.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Wait, did I miss the lynch entirely?
Welp.
Tbf, I wasn't coming in with some 11th hour hero case to prove ITF town or something, my plan was to essentially just pop in, vote whoever was the leading wagon, and pop out - life got busy and my catch up plans got very idealistic.
I guess AMA and I'll answer when I check back in the morning.
I'm totes a competent player, guys.
Like, Axel. There was a have recently where you made a big post about me being town. I wasn't under pressure or anything, there was no in game reason to pay it. You just... did.
That's what I mean there. Not that your posts mean nothing in the context of the game, but that you're kinda doing your own thing and it's hard to guage the motivations for that.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Sweet, I was a little worried I'd get lynched before I got a chance to post, didn't realize there was 24 hour twilight.
I no longer think Jack is scum; I remembered town reading Jack in Prison but I didn't remember why. I thought it was smack-me-in-the-face obvious towniness but it was more of a tone, unsure of himself but trying to figure things out kinda thing. His flip on me this game was a little weird, but his explanations aren't crazy, and I'm not sure scum even would want to change their stance on me at the stage he did; he was at a comfortable place to be the townie-of-reason there. I guess he could be worried about TMI, but as scum it's easier to just defend your original position there than make a weird 180. Small chance of being scum, but I don't think this is where to look D2.
Haven't looked at recent posts yet, really rethinking my scumlist and I'm kinda motivated atm.
(Obligatory apologies for playing like garbage, I am town, I'm not the type to BS this kinda thing to waste everybody's time.)
I'm trying hard not to think too much of the implications of ITF's claim above before he actually flips. I want as much as possible to re-read his wagon with a fresh mind and not just slap my current reads on top like tom did.
If I do slap my current reads on top, I'd say a town-ITF flips makes Rhand look worse (too much yes-man-ing) and tom look better (not much strategic interest in playing like he did).
I'm trying hard not to think too much of the implications of ITF's claim above before he actually flips. I want as much as possible to re-read his wagon with a fresh mind and not just slap my current reads on top like tom did.
If I do slap my current reads on top, I'd say a town-ITF flips makes Rhand look worse (too much yes-man-ing) and tom look better (not much strategic interest in playing like he did).
I would say it makes tom look worse. He only softly defended ITF and was willing to hammer.
[url=https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/817078-matter-mafia-day-1-sursamens-eighth?comment=940]Rodemy's 940[/url] Never had Shadow anywhere close to town, always has been on the scum-lean side.
[url=https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/817078-matter-mafia-day-1-sursamens-eighth?comment=945]Tom's 945[/url] Yeah, don't want to lynch a lurker cause it's generally dumb. Let Shadow catch up. I gave the reason why I thought my lynch needed to happen and I stand by it.
Quote from Tom »
I think itf is a lurker lynch with a little fancying up[/url]
Ouch
[quote=Killjoy] but I work in grocery[/url]
oof, feel for you dude.
[url=Grapefruit]ITF kind of has that just so level of foreignness where I can't figure out if his weirdness is meta differences, awkwardness fitting into a group that all knows each other, or scumminess. He's very much a shrug to me right now.ITF kind of has that just so level of foreignness where I can't figure out if his weirdness is meta differences, awkwardness fitting into a group that all knows each other, or scumminess. He's very much a shrug to me right now.[url]
Yeah, I've felt like kind an outsider this game. Usually I love being vanilla town (was fist pumping when I got my role pm), but the meta has changed a bit on this site, and it's gotten more closely knit, making it hard to figure out AND not be super awkward. I wish I hadn't gotten discouraged.
[url=https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/817078-matter-mafia-day-1-sursamens-eighth?comment=981]981[/url]Ugh, wanted to get away from my old meta, but apparently I'll always suck
BlueElectric is an ISO alt, that game was super interesting. ISO was very new at that time (younger brother of Seppel) and I think he was trying to find his groove then.
Forgot that ZDS was scum in LotrII, this game has been giving me ptsd from that one.
[quote=ZDS]ITF, did you only take "notes" because I directly asked you for opinions on your wagon? If not why does it seem that way so much?
(If yes I don't particularly care.)
Embarrassing, but yeah, I don't generally take notes. These were my my notes AFTER checking the game ~3days later, which are focused on my wagon.
[quote=ZDS]Right now the current me does not see in the current ITF what the past me saw in the past him (the self-imposed imperial duty to find scum)[/url]
Unfortunate result of me caring less.[
~
God, if I do nothing else this game, I'm glad I'm able to give some older MTGS players some nostalgia <3. And I love that their trying to analyze *****.
~
~
I've been liking Tom's recent posts. In fact I'm just going to say Tom is town. I guess he could be a real tryhard, but probably just town.
Looking at my old games gives me more confidence in my ZDS meta, swore I had reasons for those.
I'm trying hard not to think too much of the implications of ITF's claim above before he actually flips. I want as much as possible to re-read his wagon with a fresh mind and not just slap my current reads on top like tom did.
If I do slap my current reads on top, I'd say a town-ITF flips makes Rhand look worse (too much yes-man-ing) and tom look better (not much strategic interest in playing like he did).
I would say it makes tom look worse. He only softly defended ITF and was willing to hammer.
I'm trying hard not to think too much of the implications of ITF's claim above before he actually flips. I want as much as possible to re-read his wagon with a fresh mind and not just slap my current reads on top like tom did.
If I do slap my current reads on top, I'd say a town-ITF flips makes Rhand look worse (too much yes-man-ing) and tom look better (not much strategic interest in playing like he did).
I would say it makes tom look worse. He only softly defended ITF and was willing to hammer.
So was jack and he did hammer, what about him?
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Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Its a game with intentional twilight i would ******* hope he would keep playing as any alignment
I mean that's just how I am?
also chill
governing this is still bad given ITF's play, especially in worlds where he is a wolf, and the world where governer does exist and is also a wolf
keep in my mind these governor/venge theories are only because of y'all, none of this even crossed my mind
it didnt become really apparent till I noticed twilight was pretty much 24 hours
You didn't think having an extended deadline doesn't signal that twilight type roles exist?
I mean hosts like Osie use twilight so he can do things because he busy?
I thought it was something like a timer to end the day phase at a specific time
I didnt notice till like 1 am my time, that twilight was like 24 hours
if a vengeful? shooting in the lower posters would be more efficient
Tubba/Shadow seems best
if governer exists? the problem is the if they are mafia or town
probably still wouldn't save this
Wait, what?
Mafia governor? What are YOU talking about?
why does a possible governor half to be a town role?
same could be said for a vengeful?
???
How the **** could governor be a wolf role? It's a role that literally ****s with the town's only reliable mechanism for killing wolves. I hate the role in general because unlike a vig who is one and done, there is an extra layer of WIFOM of playing "appease the govenor." I played with it one in a Zyre game with NAcho as the wolf. Nacho was town and I was a wolf, but I was still pissed at that role's inclusion as just the threat of it out there was irratating, because even if I was town, one player controls the narrative.
Could you ******* imagine if Nacho was a wolf that game? It would have been a ******* blow out, as long as he wasn't wolfy enough to get lynched. We have seen games where the wolves can **** with the lynch. They are never good games. ******* never.
Vengeful can go both ways. I think it primarily is a wolf role, but I have physically seen it about equal as both alignments. I prefer it on wolf where I want them to have an extra kill, but not an actual vig shot, if that makes sense.
I mean we can discuss how anti-fun it is another time if it exists
I believe its pretty anti-town regardless
I checked the wiki, and nothing says it can't be either alignment
Definitely didn’t notice it was a long twilight until now.
@Tom, make a player specific read on why you think I’m scum here, because I can’t help but feel like you’re scum reading “generic player in Shadow slot” and it comes across as disingenuous.
I don’t think ITF is twilight trolling, but I also don’t feel like trying to puzzle through things without the flip.
I don't really respect it either
but hey, at least it's very doubtful you are ever wolf/wolf
anyways the flip should be happening soon
and I need to head to work
I think Axel is probably more likely town than not now that I understand his play style a little better. We have very different styles generally, so hes usually either underwhelming or barking up the wrong tree or things like this which seem to just be tangential to whatever else is going on.
I usually read posts like this as cases to show others a played findings on a player, bit I think this is more Axel's attempt too organize his own thoughts.
My bad thought that I did. Well not much should change off Sloth, if he did nothing some people might think less of them, but not going to debate it. You are consistent I guess, even though it is off a not serious read. My issue is that you still have a non serious one in your top 3, Reasons you gave eariler though about reads not having time to simmer is fair though.
My point is part of the reason I scum read you is because you're in your own head and I shouldn't I don't think.
wth
Welp.
Tbf, I wasn't coming in with some 11th hour hero case to prove ITF town or something, my plan was to essentially just pop in, vote whoever was the leading wagon, and pop out - life got busy and my catch up plans got very idealistic.
I guess AMA and I'll answer when I check back in the morning.
I'm totes a competent player, guys.
That's what I mean there. Not that your posts mean nothing in the context of the game, but that you're kinda doing your own thing and it's hard to guage the motivations for that.
Also give me a comprehensive read on Vaimes plz.
Cool. I don't have to just post tonight. I'll do it tomorrow.
I no longer think Jack is scum; I remembered town reading Jack in Prison but I didn't remember why. I thought it was smack-me-in-the-face obvious towniness but it was more of a tone, unsure of himself but trying to figure things out kinda thing. His flip on me this game was a little weird, but his explanations aren't crazy, and I'm not sure scum even would want to change their stance on me at the stage he did; he was at a comfortable place to be the townie-of-reason there. I guess he could be worried about TMI, but as scum it's easier to just defend your original position there than make a weird 180. Small chance of being scum, but I don't think this is where to look D2.
Haven't looked at recent posts yet, really rethinking my scumlist and I'm kinda motivated atm.
(Obligatory apologies for playing like garbage, I am town, I'm not the type to BS this kinda thing to waste everybody's time.)
If I do slap my current reads on top, I'd say a town-ITF flips makes Rhand look worse (too much yes-man-ing) and tom look better (not much strategic interest in playing like he did).
I would say it makes tom look worse. He only softly defended ITF and was willing to hammer.
[url=https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/817078-matter-mafia-day-1-sursamens-eighth?comment=940]Rodemy's 940[/url] Never had Shadow anywhere close to town, always has been on the scum-lean side.
[url=https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/817078-matter-mafia-day-1-sursamens-eighth?comment=945]Tom's 945[/url] Yeah, don't want to lynch a lurker cause it's generally dumb. Let Shadow catch up. I gave the reason why I thought my lynch needed to happen and I stand by it.
Embarrassing, but yeah, I don't generally take notes. These were my my notes AFTER checking the game ~3days later, which are focused on my wagon.
[quote=ZDS]Right now the current me does not see in the current ITF what the past me saw in the past him (the self-imposed imperial duty to find scum)[/url]
Unfortunate result of me caring less.[
~
God, if I do nothing else this game, I'm glad I'm able to give some older MTGS players some nostalgia <3. And I love that their trying to analyze *****.
~
~
I've been liking Tom's recent posts. In fact I'm just going to say Tom is town. I guess he could be a real tryhard, but probably just town.
Looking at my old games gives me more confidence in my ZDS meta, swore I had reasons for those.
I'm up to about 1000 atm
Long twilights done on purpose tend to imply a vengeful or governor type role. Hopefully the former.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Who would you shoot and why?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
So was jack and he did hammer, what about him?
Once it got serious he 180d
Yes?
he did, don't think he slows rolls
so welp
Tubba/Shadow seems best
if governer exists? the problem is the if they are mafia or town
probably still wouldn't save this
Its a game with intentional twilight i would ******* hope he would keep playing as any alignment
What are you talking about?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Wait, what?
Mafia governor? What are YOU talking about?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I mean that's just how I am?
also chill
governing this is still bad given ITF's play, especially in worlds where he is a wolf, and the world where governer does exist and is also a wolf
keep in my mind these governor/venge theories are only because of y'all, none of this even crossed my mind
it didnt become really apparent till I noticed twilight was pretty much 24 hours
The GJ way path to no lynching:
same could be said for a vengeful?
???
I thought it was something like a timer to end the day phase at a specific time
I didnt notice till like 1 am my time, that twilight was like 24 hours
How the **** could governor be a wolf role? It's a role that literally ****s with the town's only reliable mechanism for killing wolves. I hate the role in general because unlike a vig who is one and done, there is an extra layer of WIFOM of playing "appease the govenor." I played with it one in a Zyre game with NAcho as the wolf. Nacho was town and I was a wolf, but I was still pissed at that role's inclusion as just the threat of it out there was irratating, because even if I was town, one player controls the narrative.
Could you ******* imagine if Nacho was a wolf that game? It would have been a ******* blow out, as long as he wasn't wolfy enough to get lynched. We have seen games where the wolves can **** with the lynch. They are never good games. ******* never.
Vengeful can go both ways. I think it primarily is a wolf role, but I have physically seen it about equal as both alignments. I prefer it on wolf where I want them to have an extra kill, but not an actual vig shot, if that makes sense.
Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I believe its pretty anti-town regardless
I checked the wiki, and nothing says it can't be either alignment
Its definitely rare though, and really cant be multiple shots.
grape/rhand
Kj/rod/axel
Mush
sloth
shadow/jack
I didn't realize there was an extended twilight until Rhand mentioned something about it, and then Silver obviously.
Why is KJ above mush for you tom?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Dude was tryna solve the game off the clock
@Tom, make a player specific read on why you think I’m scum here, because I can’t help but feel like you’re scum reading “generic player in Shadow slot” and it comes across as disingenuous.
I don’t think ITF is twilight trolling, but I also don’t feel like trying to puzzle through things without the flip.
I like GJ’s Ted talk.
Correct shadow. My read of you involves no actual meta. Any scum can struggle representing natural worries
As far as the read....okay I guess. We’ll get there.
but hey, at least it's very doubtful you are ever wolf/wolf
anyways the flip should be happening soon
and I need to head to work
pros and cons of this idea. Go.