If all you need is one freaking vote aside from your team's to get your win, the only way you don't vote to accept is if you believe that all 3 town candidates (assuming only 1 spy in Umami's group) with reject it, and a scum team that seriously believes that never votes yes in general 'cause they're too chicke***** to ever make a move. Sorry if that comes across as insulting, but it's true.
Your assuming all the rebels, even on the mission will vote yes to the proposal. Even before today, that wasn't true. Look at 4.2: Even if we assume every spy voted no, at least one rebel voted no as well. 4.4 is the only one I can confidently say had two spies on it...Either Shadow/Rhand, or Umani/Shadow....
Hmm,
****, maybe it is just Umani. My spy read of Rhand is based solely on the assumption that Vaimes is a spy from this stage.
Voting patterns matter just as much if not more because there's no guess work on who voted what. So, you disregarding them is ?
I don't think they do. because if they did, the game would be over. Period, end of discussion. I get that you can't assume that like I can because you don't know my alignment, but 4.4/5.1 would have ended in spy victories if they passed. 100%. KJ or Vaimes just decided to throw for their team by not voting yes. So I can't take the vote count seriously. Maybe they were paranoid of two rebels voting no, I can't tell. If Rhand is a spy, Vaimes probably doesn't care if I take his "I am going to vote no on everyone" at face value.
When saying "a day ago" I meant literally 24 hours ago, which was way after my proposal and, in fact, had been after Umami's. I had been confirmed for almost a week. This was in reference to your #786, where you stated your intention to nominate Rhand only to change your mind later for reasons. How did you get this wrong?
I suppose asking you to ignore that post isn't going to happen, but I was seething in anger. Hence, me mentioning nomnating you and one of KJ/sloth instead of KJ/shadow. The end result is that there are only two possible rebel teams: Vaimes/Rhand/+1 KJ/shadow or Umani/KJ/Shadow. I will refuse to look at worlds were shenanigans happened with two spies but 1 pass. I get your mission 4 wiped that doubt from your mind as well.
But that's it. There is no world I am a rebel, lest I would have just moved on, or casted doubt. I don't vote no on 4.4 if I was a spy. I just don't. I also don't fail mission 4, despite your comment before hand. It makes 0 sense from my perspective, why would I confirm a spy there?
2): Wasn't 4.1 fired off the hip? I would have been nervous about locking myself if as a spy as well...4.1 also has two spies, guaranteed, I missed that.
Rhand was in 4.5, an auto-accepted mission that already had one at least one guaranteed scum. It's possible he was the one scum there but compound it with everything else he's done, I have no idea what he's doing.
3): I don't get that. You knew that one would pass unless exactly me/Umani or me/Rhand or Umani/Rhand were both wolves, that played mission 3 perfectly.
FWIW, Rhand and I as buddies handle each other very differently.
Oh come on. You of all people know that "I do X or Y as a wolf..." is one of the worst excuses in the book. Every wolf in history says they play differently when they are "Actually" a wolf.
Proposal 1.1 by Shadow: Sloth and Shadow
Voting 1.1:Shadow nominated himself and Sloth for the mission
Yes (6): GJ, KJ, Rhand, Sloth, Shadow, Vaimes
No (1): Umami
The mission was succesful.
Proposal 2.1 by Sloth: Sloth, Umami, and Vaimes
Voting 2.1
Yes: Shadow, Sloth, Vaimes
No: KJ, Rhand, Umami
Did not vote and has received a prod: GJ
Proposal 2.2 by Umami: Sloth, Vaimes, and Umami
Voting 2.2
Sloth Proposed: Rhand, Sloth, GJ, and Umami.
The mission succeeded with 3 passes and 1 fail.
@Umami, talk to me about why a rhand/shadow/vaimes team is impossible. Take your time.
I need to hear other people's reasons without my own to see if it's worth following.
Is it impossible?—no. But I do think it’s super improbable. There are several major vote points that just don’t make sense with a Shadow/Rhand/Vaimes team.
Front and center: 4.1 is what full cleared Rhand for me. He was on mission with Vaimes and he voted no. Him voting yes if he was bad was 0 risk. That seemed like a good team at the time—like I wasn’t 100% on KJ but thought that at the very least we had 3 good guys. GJ or shadow being cautious here could make sense, but Rhand? No way, that was a minimal risk/high reward yes vote for Rhand if he was bad and he didn’t take it. Like in the world with Vaimes/Rhand/Shadow, Shadow might hesitate to say yes unsure of what KJ and I would do, but Rhand on the mission? I just can’t see why he would play that way. Especially if his yes vote there would have won it for scum.
4.2, why does KJ vote yes unless to throw doubt on the mission?
4.4, everyone knew I was going to vote yes on this so it wouldn’t default to your mission. Like if I get the motivation and time, I really need to read back from the start with the knowledge that you're good because I still don’t know where I went wrong reading you. Putting that aside, I’m not sure why shadow would put the entire bad team on his mission but I guess it’s possible… However, Rhand again voted no and was the limiting factor. After 4.1 and 4.4, I just can’t see Rhand being bad. Like what would his motivation be?
Grapefruit21 hasn't been online in a couple of days and missed this game's deadline (~37.5 hours ago).
We'll give him a little longer to get the game moving again, but players should go ahead and add me to their role PM conversations so I can take over hosting duties in case he isn't able to continue them.
You have a hard deadline 24 hours to vote. A soft deadline of 12 hours exists as well. If all votes are received by then I will move forward immediately. Please do not rely upon changing your vote at the last minute.
I have more suspicions about that than I have about yours, so you is who I'm asking.
I mean, I am pretty sure the answer was obvious. I didn't think that was going to pass, but I gave rope to see if my team was wrong, and try to play it from there. I think if that was the correct team I had listed, I would have gotten 1-3 yes's.
I mean if I got 0 yes's. 1-3 meant that my team would have been incorrect. 0 could have been right, but I think this is very clear that looking at the vote counts for these otherwise passing fancies don't do *****.
I would put the teams as exactly Umani/KJ/Shadow or Vaimes/Rhand/KJ.
I have nothing left to say.
Either Vaimes has the correct team here, which I doubt, or it’s me/Sloth/Umami/Shadow we need and that’s what I will propose.
KJ is all but confirmed spy now.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
There’s two possible teams I can still see. Vaimes / GJ / KJ and Umami / Shadow / KJ. I banked on one and hope it’s right.
I don’t think I’ll ever play resistance again though.
With that proposal the game is locked for the spies. The Spies, Killjoy, Shadowlancer, and Umami, have won because Rhand proposed a mission with at least one spy and the spies mission will be automatically accepted.
Thank you all for sticking with this game. I am so sorry for all of the delays, but I hope you managed to enjoy it anyway! I know I enjoyed reading it.
I want to thank Silver specifically for stepping in and lending me a hand when things were getting away from me a bit.
Sorry @GJ. It’s Umami really. He played na amazing early game and completely convinced me of being a rebel, which made you an auto-spy in my book. I almost snapped out of that tunnel a few times, but 4.1 pushed me into it again completely.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Rhand was the only one that caught the team, but were his reasons actually true? Shadow + Umami talking "in code" and KJ not picking up on it.
I got there for PoE but dismissed it for...reasons? I think I was just convinced GJ was scum, he was consistently in all my teams along with Shadow (until 5.1 was rejected)
...I'm still reading my posts and have no idea how I ended up dismissing Umami over Vaimes, especially given that I was convinced on her as scum since almost the start of the game...
...oh good, I think it was because of GJ again. Sorry GJ.
Sorry @GJ. It’s Umami really. He played na amazing early game and completely convinced me of being a rebel, which made you an auto-spy in my book. I almost snapped out of that tunnel a few times, but 4.1 pushed me into it again completely.
It shouldn't have.
Like seriously.
Vote counts are almost completely irrelevant ESPECIALLY ON THE MOST TOWN SIDED MISSION. And you and Sloth pretended it was gospel.
Eh, game's over, man - no need to waste emotion on it.
I am really sorry. I should have believed you, but I just....didn't understand. Holy *****, I agree that I probably won't play a game like this again. It's...too random.
Yeah, all 4 times this has run (3 resistance, 1 Avalon) scum have won. I think Avalon was super close though, that setup with a full 12 was pretty balanced.
4 consecutive proposals with 2 spies each. How in the world did the scumteam not all vote on any of these???
And holy *****, Vaimes was the only one that got it right (go Vaimes!)
This game was a like a semi-lucid dream, nothing made sense lol.
With that proposal the game is locked for the spies. The Spies, Killjoy, Shadowlancer, and Umami, have won because Rhand proposed a mission with at least one spy and the spies mission will be automatically accepted.
Btw Grape, just to clarify:
Was proposal 5.4 accepted by the majority of players?
Or was 5.4 rejected, leading to 5.5 for KJ, and an automatic scum victory?
4 consecutive proposals with 2 spies each. How in the world did the scumteam not all vote on any of these???
And holy *****, Vaimes was the only one that got it right (go Vaimes!)
This game was a like a semi-lucid dream, nothing made sense lol.
Lol, I'm putting that on KJ or Shadow If I got caught, it was game over for spies. If one of them got caught, there were still potential worlds where good guys could be on possible spy team
Sorry @GJ. It’s Umami really. He played na amazing early game and completely convinced me of being a rebel, which made you an auto-spy in my book. I almost snapped out of that tunnel a few times, but 4.1 pushed me into it again completely.
This game mode does seem scum sided if missions get accepted early easily. The lack of a social aspect hurts this game more than Mafia I think.
Yeah, you should definitely always go to nomination 5 or at least 4 for missions 1 and 2. Could potentially work if at the beginning mission nominations were shorter (12-24 hours to nominate, 12-24 hours to vote).
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Your assuming all the rebels, even on the mission will vote yes to the proposal. Even before today, that wasn't true. Look at 4.2: Even if we assume every spy voted no, at least one rebel voted no as well. 4.4 is the only one I can confidently say had two spies on it...Either Shadow/Rhand, or Umani/Shadow....
Hmm,
****, maybe it is just Umani. My spy read of Rhand is based solely on the assumption that Vaimes is a spy from this stage.
I don't think they do. because if they did, the game would be over. Period, end of discussion. I get that you can't assume that like I can because you don't know my alignment, but 4.4/5.1 would have ended in spy victories if they passed. 100%. KJ or Vaimes just decided to throw for their team by not voting yes. So I can't take the vote count seriously. Maybe they were paranoid of two rebels voting no, I can't tell. If Rhand is a spy, Vaimes probably doesn't care if I take his "I am going to vote no on everyone" at face value.
I suppose asking you to ignore that post isn't going to happen, but I was seething in anger. Hence, me mentioning nomnating you and one of KJ/sloth instead of KJ/shadow. The end result is that there are only two possible rebel teams: Vaimes/Rhand/+1 KJ/shadow or Umani/KJ/Shadow. I will refuse to look at worlds were shenanigans happened with two spies but 1 pass. I get your mission 4 wiped that doubt from your mind as well.
But that's it. There is no world I am a rebel, lest I would have just moved on, or casted doubt. I don't vote no on 4.4 if I was a spy. I just don't. I also don't fail mission 4, despite your comment before hand. It makes 0 sense from my perspective, why would I confirm a spy there?
2): Wasn't 4.1 fired off the hip? I would have been nervous about locking myself if as a spy as well...4.1 also has two spies, guaranteed, I missed that.
Rhand was in 4.5, an auto-accepted mission that already had one at least one guaranteed scum. It's possible he was the one scum there but compound it with everything else he's done, I have no idea what he's doing.
3): I don't get that. You knew that one would pass unless exactly me/Umani or me/Rhand or Umani/Rhand were both wolves, that played mission 3 perfectly.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Oh come on. You of all people know that "I do X or Y as a wolf..." is one of the worst excuses in the book. Every wolf in history says they play differently when they are "Actually" a wolf.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Is it impossible?—no. But I do think it’s super improbable. There are several major vote points that just don’t make sense with a Shadow/Rhand/Vaimes team.
Front and center: 4.1 is what full cleared Rhand for me. He was on mission with Vaimes and he voted no. Him voting yes if he was bad was 0 risk. That seemed like a good team at the time—like I wasn’t 100% on KJ but thought that at the very least we had 3 good guys. GJ or shadow being cautious here could make sense, but Rhand? No way, that was a minimal risk/high reward yes vote for Rhand if he was bad and he didn’t take it. Like in the world with Vaimes/Rhand/Shadow, Shadow might hesitate to say yes unsure of what KJ and I would do, but Rhand on the mission? I just can’t see why he would play that way. Especially if his yes vote there would have won it for scum.
4.2, why does KJ vote yes unless to throw doubt on the mission?
4.4, everyone knew I was going to vote yes on this so it wouldn’t default to your mission. Like if I get the motivation and time, I really need to read back from the start with the knowledge that you're good because I still don’t know where I went wrong reading you. Putting that aside, I’m not sure why shadow would put the entire bad team on his mission but I guess it’s possible… However, Rhand again voted no and was the limiting factor. After 4.1 and 4.4, I just can’t see Rhand being bad. Like what would his motivation be?
Anyway, I messaged grape
Nominate GJ, Umani, Sloth, KJ.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Grapefruit21 hasn't been online in a couple of days and missed this game's deadline (~37.5 hours ago).
We'll give him a little longer to get the game moving again, but players should go ahead and add me to their role PM conversations so I can take over hosting duties in case he isn't able to continue them.
Given the massive delays I have PM'd everyone who hasn't voted yet and will move the game along as soon as all votes are received.
I apologize for all the delays. I know that has sapped a lot of energy from the game and I'm sorry.
GJ Nominated: GJ, Umani, Sloth, KJ
Yes (1): KJ
No (6): GJ, Rhand, Shadow, Sloth, Umami, Vaimes
It is now Vaimes' turn to nominate.
Proposal 5.3: Vaimes, Sloth, Rhand, GJ
Go vote!
The GJ way path to no lynching:
You have a hard deadline 24 hours to vote. A soft deadline of 12 hours exists as well. If all votes are received by then I will move forward immediately. Please do not rely upon changing your vote at the last minute.
I am more curious why KJ voted yes.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I mean, I am pretty sure the answer was obvious. I didn't think that was going to pass, but I gave rope to see if my team was wrong, and try to play it from there. I think if that was the correct team I had listed, I would have gotten 1-3 yes's.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I mean if I got 0 yes's. 1-3 meant that my team would have been incorrect. 0 could have been right, but I think this is very clear that looking at the vote counts for these otherwise passing fancies don't do *****.
I would put the teams as exactly Umani/KJ/Shadow or Vaimes/Rhand/KJ.
Unfortunately, it couldn't be more.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The votes over the course of the game are bleh, but the last mission only had one spy, and I know it's Umami.
Either Vaimes has the correct team here, which I doubt, or it’s me/Sloth/Umami/Shadow we need and that’s what I will propose.
KJ is all but confirmed spy now.
@Grape any update?
Yes: Vaimes, Gentleman Johnny
No: shadowlancerx, Slothful, Umami, Rhand
Failed to vote: Killjoy
The mission has been rejected. It is now Rhand's turn to nominate. He has 72 hours to propose a team.
Go on, Rhand.
I really haven't been looking at the game much. I feel like there's not a whole lot more I can do.
Rhand, what's your idea here?
The wrong one.
proposal 5.4: Rhand, Slothful, Umami, Shadowlancerx
The GJ way path to no lynching:
There’s two possible teams I can still see. Vaimes / GJ / KJ and Umami / Shadow / KJ. I banked on one and hope it’s right.
I don’t think I’ll ever play resistance again though.
Thank you all for sticking with this game. I am so sorry for all of the delays, but I hope you managed to enjoy it anyway! I know I enjoyed reading it.
I want to thank Silver specifically for stepping in and lending me a hand when things were getting away from me a bit.
I...think you've earned it?
I don't know. And that's not mean as an insult. I honestly don't understand ***** about this game.
@GJ well. My face is certainly red. Sorry.
It was almost comical how many times we should have won but we just didn't accept the mission.
Rhand was the only one that caught the team, but were his reasons actually true? Shadow + Umami talking "in code" and KJ not picking up on it.
I got there for PoE but dismissed it for...reasons? I think I was just convinced GJ was scum, he was consistently in all my teams along with Shadow (until 5.1 was rejected)
...I'm still reading my posts and have no idea how I ended up dismissing Umami over Vaimes, especially given that I was convinced on her as scum since almost the start of the game...
...oh good, I think it was because of GJ again. Sorry GJ.
Also, @Umami: that mission you missed voting on gave me a mild heart attack
I couldn't actually be angrier.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
It shouldn't have.
Like seriously.
Vote counts are almost completely irrelevant ESPECIALLY ON THE MOST TOWN SIDED MISSION. And you and Sloth pretended it was gospel.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I am really sorry. I should have believed you, but I just....didn't understand. Holy *****, I agree that I probably won't play a game like this again. It's...too random.
4 consecutive proposals with 2 spies each. How in the world did the scumteam not all vote on any of these???
And holy *****, Vaimes was the only one that got it right (go Vaimes!)
This game was a like a semi-lucid dream, nothing made sense lol.
Was proposal 5.4 accepted by the majority of players?
Or was 5.4 rejected, leading to 5.5 for KJ, and an automatic scum victory?
But I knew I was never gonna be townread over Umami. Is what it is.
Never signing up for forum Resistance/Avalon again. I just reeeally think it's better suited to 45-60 minute games.
Agreed about being better as a quick game. Still a lot of fun, thanks Grape!
Lol, I'm putting that on KJ or Shadow If I got caught, it was game over for spies. If one of them got caught, there were still potential worlds where good guys could be on possible spy team
Oh, I totally would have voted no on that. I have no idea why Sloth voted yes but assumed he would vote no as a test
<3
Yeah, you should definitely always go to nomination 5 or at least 4 for missions 1 and 2. Could potentially work if at the beginning mission nominations were shorter (12-24 hours to nominate, 12-24 hours to vote).