More the former. I don't really take meta as a serious read when I enter a game and start looking at them. I think meta is terrible because I think most people are aware of their own meta.
Yeah, I think I've played with you once, ever, and I vaguely remember clashing with you theory-wise
I'm trying to let him do his thing. Historically, I feel like there's some weird scumhunting rift between people who play here now and people who played more years ago. I don't really know how to describe it, but I notice that it causes the older crowd to get a lot of heat early on.
That said, 4/5 of my townreads are voting him and his wagon hasn't really budged beyond that (at least before KCC voted).
Also, I'm of the older crowd, and still think he's scum, so it's not just that
For the record @KCC, my buddy from Michigan has a Turkish Van. Beautiful cat. Derpy as hell, but somehow also smart. Pure white with black ears and a black tail. Your title made me appreciate that.
I completely forgot that was my title, I used to have a bunch of cupcake-cat puns for it
Also, that cat sounds gorgeous, I've only seen Tabby colored Vans. Kinda jealous
Grape (2): kcc, rhand
Vaimes (2): Tom, GJ
Kj (1): Tubba
Tom (1): Vaimes
Not Voting (5): YWFMLF, ZDS, Kj, grape, Zion
Hmm...Tubba, did you ever explain this vote?
Sloth has had it out for me from the beginning and I haven't changed his mind, and Sloth has detailed why. I think he's probably town tunneling a bit, but he's aware of this and made effort to not be too distracted by me so that's great.
Flarg is likely town, but I didn't like where he jumped on and how. Doesn't feel right given there's so much going wrong with my play. Maybe Flarg just wanted to see what others did with it?
LW's post here was a bit of a turning point in my read and makes more sense. Although I think the "not my job to help you read me" is a bit much and could still be fake. But feeling better about LW's alignment regardless. Also caught my point that "lacking commitment doesn't mean someone has to be a wolf, but it doesn't mean they can't be a wolf".
So yeah I'm feeling like I'm just getting what I earned so far.
unvote:
Maybe I'll come back later, but right now there isnt a counter train and that bothers the hell out of me, he isn't even that wolfy to justify the existence of no counter train
Doing my due diligence now. KCC's early game is a lot of fluff, posting but not really interacting with the game in any meaningful way. Could be said for a few players here though so not indicative of scum, but doesn't give me the town vibes I had before when I was just skimming. Might be some projecting here with the trying to hard to look engaged. We can probably throw out a lot of early game stuff though.
I don't like this post because it's like an excuse to not contribute. What would even happen if no one said anything unless it was a question directed toward them? LW engages with this and KCC remains on sidelines, weakly supporting whatever.
I suppose this post would be the first engagement with what we had so far. What I find interesting is that we remove the RVS, don't really dig into Zionite right away on why I may have missed it, go after Grape even though KCC previously said the YWFMLF wagon was fine I guess. The follow up vote on Grape was weak and didn't really inspire anyone to follow. This post is a mis-characterization and seems like KCC knew that with the 'if' statement. Here we start bringing up Zio-meta that I don't particularly agree with. If anything I cared too much as scum in 2015. Kinda feels like some light mud-slinging. The interaction with Grape is somewhat useful. But I feel like it's still pulling punches. Like what is he supposed to say to his post being out of character when it still is in character with the spoiler? I don't understand a scum hunting mindset fitting here.
We see more Zio-meta stuff here and here. I don't really see how Grape's responses answered the inquiry in a satisfactory way. Finally getting around to asking me about the RVS thing and the read. I also don't agree with anything KCC has said about my meta play and it seems like a soft validation for players unfamiliar with me. With this engagement on my meta, I found it odd KCC totally missed my self-meta post. I guess I'm not the only one not paying attention. Post defending backing off Grape, but KCC didn't reaally back off.
Hey, this looks nicer with links and not quotes...
Even though she was your townread at the time, you didn't read KCC's post close enough to see that it was an RVS; despite it being her literal first post so impossible to miss.
Hedging/Lack of commitment not being an indicator. I agree with this but that is seriously not what you were saying earlier. This feels like trying to backtrack.
Further changes unexplained changes on Grape.
What Last and Ter have done to make you feel better? I'm assuming it's more than walls.
@Tom, what is your reaction to #480? Asking for a friend.
@Zi ftr I do hear what you're saying about hang-ups and despite the fact that the way you pointed it out made it slightly AtE, I am honestly trying to see things from different angles. This is why I'm engaging you at all, rather than just dismiss you as scum. This may sound obnoxious as hell, but the burden of innocence is on you to prove, not on me to believe.
On that note, whenever you get around to this would be great: (Also, acknowledge my hilarious joke damn you.)
I'm not there on Zionite being scum but I think this is a town post from Sloth. Jackrito reaching basically the same conclusions is probably also a good look. Feels too on the nose to be a pocket attempt.
One more question though, why did you want to believe jack was scum?
A few reasons first the style just evocatively feels scummy. The hedging and lack of commitment just pings that level 0 mafia part of my brain. Second when a player hedges as much and as naturally as they do they are often easier to read for spew because they are more willing to talk about players and rely on the hedges to attempt to avoid spew. And it basically never avoids it in my experience.
Sloth, Flarg, last, jack, kcc, Tom, GJ, Tubba, Vaimes, rhand, zion, YWFMLF, ZDS, Kj, grape
Slot is a pretty strong town read for me at this point. Both for the reasons I talked about in my previous post but also for their wide interest and effort driving the game. Flarg is a lesser town read for a lot of the similar varied interest and effort to move the game forward. Doesn't have a single post that shone through to me as townie but a lot of smaller TM good posts.
GJ has come in with confidence. The Vaimes push is complete gibberish to me but I'm not willing to call him scum over it. I'm liking his force and activity. His poking at Vaimes feels like it's genuine even if I'm not following his case at all. He's a town lean for now.
KJ, KCC, Wisp, and Vaimes are all very active. I am not buying the cases on Vaimes but I also currently don't have a town read on them. KCC has felt relatively genuine in pushing me and willing to re-evaluate. KJ and Wisp have enough I feel like I should have reads but they're just kind of washing over me. I'd put KJ as the slightly townier of the two but both are decidedly in the shrug range.
Jack I've talked too much about.
Tom, Rhand, ZDS, and Tubba are people I have no feel for. I remember having vaguely positive thoughts about Tubba but those might just have been because of Prison Mike. Tom had the Zionite read that clicked for me. But at this stage one clarifying read from tom means very little. It's small buddy equity between two but I'm a long way from that for now.
Zionite has been a weird combination of overly relaxed and slightly flaily. At a glance his 607 looks solid. The bit about KCC pushing me but not going all out is astute. Don't know if it makes KCC scum but it's a nice read.
Maybe I'll come back later, but right now there isnt a counter train and that bothers the hell out of me, he isn't even that wolfy to justify the existence of no counter train
I don't like this post because it's like an excuse to not contribute. What would even happen if no one said anything unless it was a question directed toward them?
Maybe the thread would still be readable by D2
Anyway, the point was that if someone wants something from me, it's more effective to just ask me directly rather than make an aimless comment. Last especially should know by now I'm way more interested when something involves me
I suppose this post would be the first engagement with what we had so far. What I find interesting is that we remove the RVS, don't really dig into Zionite right away on why I may have missed it, go after Grape even though KCC previously said the YWFMLF wagon was fine I guess. The follow up vote on Grape was weak and didn't really inspire anyone to follow.
We did have a nice little wagon going, but okay
And, yes, the ywfmlf wagon was fine at the time, I had no issues with it. And then grape caught my eye
Are you actually trying to frame scum hunting as being suspicious because I didn't hate earlier pressure on a different unrelated player?
Here we start bringing up Zio-meta that I don't particularly agree with. If anything I cared too much as scum in 2015. Kinda feels like some light mud-slinging.
Maybe in 2015? My meta is from more like 2012. And I'm not wrong. The game that I remember clearly, you ignored the consistent pressure against you for Days, pretty much right up until you were already nearly buried
Like what is he supposed to say to his post being out of character when it still is in character with the spoiler? I don't understand a scum hunting mindset fitting here.
It wasn't something I'd expect from him: part of the post I could see, but not the whole, together, as posted. -And what was he supposed to say? An explanation, if there was one?
Which... is exactly what he did, so what are you even saying here?
I found it odd KCC totally missed my self-meta post.
I know you linked games. That doesn't mean that was the exact list KJ looked at. He might have only read some, or found more, or been making it up to sound like he was researching
It was something I wanted to have down now, rather than coming back for less useful clarification later
Sloth, Flarg, last, jack, kcc, Tom, GJ, Tubba, Vaimes, rhand, zion, YWFMLF, ZDS, Kj, grape
Slot is a pretty strong town read for me at this point. Both for the reasons I talked about in my previous post but also for their wide interest and effort driving the game. Flarg is a lesser town read for a lot of the similar varied interest and effort to move the game forward. Doesn't have a single post that shone through to me as townie but a lot of smaller TM good posts.
GJ has come in with confidence. The Vaimes push is complete gibberish to me but I'm not willing to call him scum over it. I'm liking his force and activity. His poking at Vaimes feels like it's genuine even if I'm not following his case at all. He's a town lean for now.
KJ, KCC, Wisp, and Vaimes are all very active. I am not buying the cases on Vaimes but I also currently don't have a town read on them. KCC has felt relatively genuine in pushing me and willing to re-evaluate. KJ and Wisp have enough I feel like I should have reads but they're just kind of washing over me. I'd put KJ as the slightly townier of the two but both are decidedly in the shrug range.
Jack I've talked too much about.
Tom, Rhand, ZDS, and Tubba are people I have no feel for. I remember having vaguely positive thoughts about Tubba but those might just have been because of Prison Mike. Tom had the Zionite read that clicked for me. But at this stage one clarifying read from tom means very little. It's small buddy equity between two but I'm a long way from that for now.
Zionite has been a weird combination of overly relaxed and slightly flaily. At a glance his 607 looks solid. The bit about KCC pushing me but not going all out is astute. Don't know if it makes KCC scum but it's a nice read.
Even though she was your townread at the time, you didn't read KCC's post close enough to see that it was an RVS; despite it being her literal first post so impossible to miss.
Hedging/Lack of commitment not being an indicator. I agree with this but that is seriously not what you were saying earlier. This feels like trying to backtrack.
Further changes unexplained changes on Grape.
What Last and Ter have done to make you feel better? I'm assuming it's more than walls.
[TRIM TRIM TRIM]
On that note, whenever you get around to this would be great:
[SNIP: the bit about your rather sudden and unexplained change from FOSing Grape to full-on sheeping him.]
1. Yep, totally wasn't paying enough attention to KCC. I deserve this one.
2. Well, I think there's a difference between backtracking openly and trying not to look like backtracking. I'm doing the former here.
3. Was posting on mobile before bed at 3am. My initial reads kind of matched up with what Grape was doing so I liked it. But now I'm liking him less. I could do a more thorough read on him but I don't think it's a productive use right now.
4. LW is less meme-y now and that's where I prefer the posts to be. I was assuming it was gonna be an all-Day thing at first.
I literally can't prove that I'm town though. So that's why I'm more of a "let's just get this over with" instead of "I'm town you gotta believe me". Besides, I thought the standard was innocent until proven guilty? So what sort of proof are you looking for? Are we requiring this for every player? I get what you're saying and I get a good town-read from it, but I don't know how to resolve what you're looking for without pushing me to a lynch.
2: In this case, there really is no difference. This isn't an action or post you read wrong and are backtracking; you can't say "hedging is an indicator" and then take it back and say "no, it is not an indicator." There's no GOOD way to backtrack out of that one, honestly.
Admitting you are backtracking is definitely not it, at least.
3: Yet you still haven't talked about your progression from your initial read on Grape to following him. I don't really want to know where you think he is now, I want to know how you got from your initial assessment to the one where you vote with him. It really was all "oh it was 3am"?
4: And Ter/Laserface?
I'm requiring this of every player I suspect, yes.
I'm not going to address the rest, feels like misdirecting, a lot of "why is it okay if it's you"s and "look the other way"s. Not really relevant to actual gamesolving from what I can see.
I'm still comfortable with my vote, but now I have something else to think about.
Also time to get off my tunnel, and look at others like I said I would yesterday. Still not buying Zion defense, but no point just sitting on this when I still have others to look at and a lot of time left to do so.
Actually, I may be overthinking.
Change of plans, I'm gonna get sleep, then look at this in the morning and see if I still feel the same. Don't wanna muddy the waters otherwise. Night all!
Huh. I don't know what happened. I remember typing ZYMFL's name because I made the very juvenile "joke" of typing their name as YWMILF. My read was basically saying that I trust Sloth to read them at this point and they seem to have that natural curiosity.
Sloth, Flarg, last, jack, kcc, Tom, GJ, Tubba, Vaimes, rhand, zion, YWFMLF, ZDS, Kj, grape
Slot is a pretty strong town read for me at this point. Both for the reasons I talked about in my previous post but also for their wide interest and effort driving the game. Flarg is a lesser town read for a lot of the similar varied interest and effort to move the game forward. Doesn't have a single post that shone through to me as townie but a lot of smaller TM good posts.
GJ has come in with confidence. The Vaimes push is complete gibberish to me but I'm not willing to call him scum over it. I'm liking his force and activity. His poking at Vaimes feels like it's genuine even if I'm not following his case at all. He's a town lean for now.
KJ, KCC, Wisp, and Vaimes are all very active. I am not buying the cases on Vaimes but I also currently don't have a town read on them. KCC has felt relatively genuine in pushing me and willing to re-evaluate. KJ and Wisp have enough I feel like I should have reads but they're just kind of washing over me. I'd put KJ as the slightly townier of the two but both are decidedly in the shrug range.
Jack I've talked too much about.
Tom, Rhand, ZDS, and Tubba are people I have no feel for. I remember having vaguely positive thoughts about Tubba but those might just have been because of Prison Mike. Tom had the Zionite read that clicked for me. But at this stage one clarifying read from tom means very little. It's small buddy equity between two but I'm a long way from that for now.
Zionite has been a weird combination of overly relaxed and slightly flaily. At a glance his 607 looks solid. The bit about KCC pushing me but not going all out is astute. Don't know if it makes KCC scum but it's a nice read.
....this whole thing basically says you only town read people or have to reads. The closest you come to a "not town" position is Vaimes. You don't buy the case against him but you don't think he's town either. So why?
What would you say if I am fading on him for similar reasons to you?
As far as the freezing on Zionite part. I never thought MTGS was huge on always being dueling wagons. Sure it happens, but I don't think anything if it doesn't. Being frozen on 4 votes with most of the votes being town reads does point to wolves probably being ok with how the day is going.
I want to say low impact/lurky scum team, just based on the number of people abstaining and how the game kinda froze on Zionite.
Tubba are you scumreading KJ?
Yeah, it’s not strong, but he seems atypical and not what I’ve come to expect. He hasn’t done much which is also not normal. kJ in my mind is a plodding stalwart detective. This kJ is a gadfly flitting about. (This is not derogatory or denigrating, more of a mental image of the person in question. You are all my very best friends because I will fire you if you aren’t)
@John
If you get a chance to look back at my question to you from a page or two ago and get back to me I’d be much obliged.
@Slothful
The worst thing about prison was the... was the dementors. They were flying all over the place and they were scary and then they'd come down and they'd suck the soul out of your body. And it hurt!
Would you elaborate on your town block? I don’t recall you mentioning any of them really except for slight town lean on Jack. What’s firmed that up and what do you like about the other two?
Just tone reads, and basic skimming over isos. I liked what I was reading, and how they were handling themselves. I won't lie, those aren't really hottake reads, they are pretty standard from what I am looking at.
Why not ask me about my hot takes? Town lean on Zio and wolf read on Vaimes?
As far as KJ goes, I feel like he flits about quite a bit until later days. I have never been super impressed with his posts few days. Wouldn't mind lighting a fire under him with vaimes
I’m curious about your thoughts on Zio, I’m still feeling there’s a wolf between him and Jack and keep wavering back and forth.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on KJ, particularly from the last game I played with him. That was a serious, thoughtful town player. He may have fluffed a bit but there was certainly more to his game.
And I can see a Vaimes Wolf World, but that’s paranoia for me at this stage and I couldn’t point to a real AI thing. What do you see?
While I was catching up at a snail's pace (just reached page 7, yay), at some point YWF's comment that I'm acting coy made me realise something (by the way I'm not coy, I'm just beyond rusty) : everyone is acting coy, or at least being kind of shy, and this is why the game state is how it is.
It's not some cunning plan by the scum (or if it is they are freaking high level), it's a meta issue. I don't actually have a clue what the current site-meta is like (maybe the issue is only with this game?), but back in my day (grumpyoldman.gif) at this point of the game we'd already see giant cancerous walls of quotes fly around in every direction, and more importantly people would be trying to convince other people to vote like they do. I've seen very little of that actually happen in this thread, instead the common modus operandi seems to be to place your vote somewhere, maaayybe wrap a case around it (but not a big one, a couple paragraphs at the very most), and people either like it or they don't.
On the one hand I don't mind that the meta has chilled out from the days of calling for blood at the slightest wrong movement (and I cannot stress out enough how much I hate wall-of-quotes posts), but on the other hand rabidness and overreactions move the game forward.
Instead we have bull***** like FlargBlarg's early push on Vaimes that crumbled into dust at the slightest hint of resistance, or Zionite's recent case (#607) on KCC that may look nice with links, but sure as **** does not look like he's that interested in getting her lynched.
I'd love to bring the change I want to see, but I'll be V/LA until March 1st so that's one more thing that will have to wait.
I'm not yet ready to give my current reads (I want to do things properly and not flip-flop on them as they change throughout my catch-up), but currently I think Zionite is low-hanging fruit and am uneasy with how slow his wagon is going despite of that, and I think FlargBlarg and Vaimes deserve more attention for that early interaction that looked suspiciously like *****ty distancing.
I'm impatient to be caught up so I can write more of these long-winded condescending walls of text. It's been a very long while.
GJ, I’d say whatever you’re using to read my mind, teach me.
You misunderstand, or I phrased it poorly. What I meant was that the same reasons I am not a huge fan of your slot, are starting to apply to KJ.
I’m curious about your thoughts on Zio, I’m still feeling there’s a wolf between him and Jack and keep wavering back and forth.
He can get lazy about posting and snarky in response. His last two/three posts I thought have been pretty analytical like he is trying to solve. I think he is pretty town, and really the only hesitation in that read is how many of my own town reads are voting him. KCC is the only one and that is more of a null read.
Jacks a bit of spicier wolf read. So I don't have to reread your iso, why do you think there has to be a wolf there, and can they both be town or both be wolves?
GJ, I’d say whatever you’re using to read my mind, teach me.
You misunderstand, or I phrased it poorly. What I meant was that the same reasons I am not a huge fan of your slot, are starting to apply to KJ.
I’m curious about your thoughts on Zio, I’m still feeling there’s a wolf between him and Jack and keep wavering back and forth.
He can get lazy about posting and snarky in response. His last two/three posts I thought have been pretty analytical like he is trying to solve. I think he is pretty town, and really the only hesitation in that read is how many of my own town reads are voting him. KCC is the only one and that is more of a null read.
Jacks a bit of spicier wolf read. So I don't have to reread your iso, why do you think there has to be a wolf there, and can they both be town or both be wolves?
It’s in their responses to earlier pressure. Jack had a “why me, not them” response and seemed AtE and... petulant? Now they seem hesitant to rock the boat and I feel that could indicate scum looking for a window.
Zio was also defensive and had his own “why me, not them” moment. Since, he has made an effort to walk things back And present his earlier takes as not being that meaningful or purposely. I don’t like the rolling over approach to the wagon and feel like if he’s concerned with going down and is town he should be giving his thoughts on the other slots.
It could be my brain seeking patterns, but the dynamic between them makes me think there’s a wolf there. I’d be very shocked if there was two, and less shocked if they were both town. I can see a world where Zio is truthful about his mistakes and Jack is upset town trying to refocus on the game.
I completely forgot that was my title, I used to have a bunch of cupcake-cat puns for it
Also, that cat sounds gorgeous, I've only seen Tabby colored Vans. Kinda jealous
You should start posting Killjoy instead, make it a contest
VC Please
Sure, I'll go off of this because it's the most recent.
Sloth has had it out for me from the beginning and I haven't changed his mind, and Sloth has detailed why. I think he's probably town tunneling a bit, but he's aware of this and made effort to not be too distracted by me so that's great.
Flarg is likely town, but I didn't like where he jumped on and how. Doesn't feel right given there's so much going wrong with my play. Maybe Flarg just wanted to see what others did with it?
LW's post here was a bit of a turning point in my read and makes more sense. Although I think the "not my job to help you read me" is a bit much and could still be fake. But feeling better about LW's alignment regardless. Also caught my point that "lacking commitment doesn't mean someone has to be a wolf, but it doesn't mean they can't be a wolf".
So yeah I'm feeling like I'm just getting what I earned so far.
This doesn't feel sincere. I think you're just trying to hop on while the getting is good.
Vote KCC
Vaimes (2): Tom, GJ
Kj (1): Tubba
Tom (1): Vaimes
Grape (1): rhand
Kcc (1): zion
Not Voting (4): YWFMLF, ZDS, Kj, grape
Maybe I'll come back later, but right now there isnt a counter train and that bothers the hell out of me, he isn't even that wolfy to justify the existence of no counter train
I don't like this post because it's like an excuse to not contribute. What would even happen if no one said anything unless it was a question directed toward them? LW engages with this and KCC remains on sidelines, weakly supporting whatever.
I suppose this post would be the first engagement with what we had so far. What I find interesting is that we remove the RVS, don't really dig into Zionite right away on why I may have missed it, go after Grape even though KCC previously said the YWFMLF wagon was fine I guess. The follow up vote on Grape was weak and didn't really inspire anyone to follow.
This post is a mis-characterization and seems like KCC knew that with the 'if' statement.
Here we start bringing up Zio-meta that I don't particularly agree with. If anything I cared too much as scum in 2015. Kinda feels like some light mud-slinging.
The interaction with Grape is somewhat useful. But I feel like it's still pulling punches. Like what is he supposed to say to his post being out of character when it still is in character with the spoiler? I don't understand a scum hunting mindset fitting here.
We see more Zio-meta stuff here and here. I don't really see how Grape's responses answered the inquiry in a satisfactory way. Finally getting around to asking me about the RVS thing and the read. I also don't agree with anything KCC has said about my meta play and it seems like a soft validation for players unfamiliar with me. With this engagement on my meta, I found it odd KCC totally missed my self-meta post. I guess I'm not the only one not paying attention.
Post defending backing off Grape, but KCC didn't reaally back off.
Hey, this looks nicer with links and not quotes...
I'm not there on Zionite being scum but I think this is a town post from Sloth. Jackrito reaching basically the same conclusions is probably also a good look. Feels too on the nose to be a pocket attempt.
A few reasons first the style just evocatively feels scummy. The hedging and lack of commitment just pings that level 0 mafia part of my brain. Second when a player hedges as much and as naturally as they do they are often easier to read for spew because they are more willing to talk about players and rely on the hedges to attempt to avoid spew. And it basically never avoids it in my experience.
Have you never played with Jack before?
Slot is a pretty strong town read for me at this point. Both for the reasons I talked about in my previous post but also for their wide interest and effort driving the game. Flarg is a lesser town read for a lot of the similar varied interest and effort to move the game forward. Doesn't have a single post that shone through to me as townie but a lot of smaller TM good posts.
GJ has come in with confidence. The Vaimes push is complete gibberish to me but I'm not willing to call him scum over it. I'm liking his force and activity. His poking at Vaimes feels like it's genuine even if I'm not following his case at all. He's a town lean for now.
KJ, KCC, Wisp, and Vaimes are all very active. I am not buying the cases on Vaimes but I also currently don't have a town read on them. KCC has felt relatively genuine in pushing me and willing to re-evaluate. KJ and Wisp have enough I feel like I should have reads but they're just kind of washing over me. I'd put KJ as the slightly townier of the two but both are decidedly in the shrug range.
Jack I've talked too much about.
Tom, Rhand, ZDS, and Tubba are people I have no feel for. I remember having vaguely positive thoughts about Tubba but those might just have been because of Prison Mike. Tom had the Zionite read that clicked for me. But at this stage one clarifying read from tom means very little. It's small buddy equity between two but I'm a long way from that for now.
Zionite has been a weird combination of overly relaxed and slightly flaily. At a glance his 607 looks solid. The bit about KCC pushing me but not going all out is astute. Don't know if it makes KCC scum but it's a nice read.
I don't think so. Might have in the Starship game where I was scum but that would have been the only one.
This is going to take a while. Incoming large post.
Gonna address a few things first!
Anyway, the point was that if someone wants something from me, it's more effective to just ask me directly rather than make an aimless comment. Last especially should know by now I'm way more interested when something involves me We did have a nice little wagon going, but okay
And, yes, the ywfmlf wagon was fine at the time, I had no issues with it. And then grape caught my eye
Are you actually trying to frame scum hunting as being suspicious because I didn't hate earlier pressure on a different unrelated player?
How was it a mischaracterization? It was one of the exactly two reasons you gave
Maybe in 2015? My meta is from more like 2012. And I'm not wrong. The game that I remember clearly, you ignored the consistent pressure against you for Days, pretty much right up until you were already nearly buried It wasn't something I'd expect from him: part of the post I could see, but not the whole, together, as posted. -And what was he supposed to say? An explanation, if there was one?
Which... is exactly what he did, so what are you even saying here?
I know you linked games. That doesn't mean that was the exact list KJ looked at. He might have only read some, or found more, or been making it up to sound like he was researching
It was something I wanted to have down now, rather than coming back for less useful clarification later
Man We really need to wolf together again
Lucky number 12 is missing
might go back to Zi later but we need another wagon
2: In this case, there really is no difference. This isn't an action or post you read wrong and are backtracking; you can't say "hedging is an indicator" and then take it back and say "no, it is not an indicator." There's no GOOD way to backtrack out of that one, honestly.
Admitting you are backtracking is definitely not it, at least.
3: Yet you still haven't talked about your progression from your initial read on Grape to following him. I don't really want to know where you think he is now, I want to know how you got from your initial assessment to the one where you vote with him. It really was all "oh it was 3am"?
4: And Ter/Laserface?
I'm requiring this of every player I suspect, yes.
I'm not going to address the rest, feels like misdirecting, a lot of "why is it okay if it's you"s and "look the other way"s. Not really relevant to actual gamesolving from what I can see.
I'm still comfortable with my vote, but now I have something else to think about.
lol where did this comment come from, but yeah we do since the one other time ended so badly.
Change of plans, I'm gonna get sleep, then look at this in the morning and see if I still feel the same. Don't wanna muddy the waters otherwise. Night all!
Zionite (4): Slothful, FlargBlarg, Jackrito, KittyCupCake
Vaimes (2): Tomsloger, Gentleman Johnny
Killjoy (1): Tubba Fett
Grapefruit21 (1): Rhand
tomsloger (1): Vaimes
KittyCupCake (1): Zionite
Not Voting (5): YWFMLF, ZeDorkSlipeur, Killjoy, Grapefuit21, Lastwhisper
With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Deadline is March 3rd at 1700 MST.
....this whole thing basically says you only town read people or have to reads. The closest you come to a "not town" position is Vaimes. You don't buy the case against him but you don't think he's town either. So why?
Tubba are you scumreading KJ?
What would you say if I am fading on him for similar reasons to you?
As far as the freezing on Zionite part. I never thought MTGS was huge on always being dueling wagons. Sure it happens, but I don't think anything if it doesn't. Being frozen on 4 votes with most of the votes being town reads does point to wolves probably being ok with how the day is going.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Yeah, it’s not strong, but he seems atypical and not what I’ve come to expect. He hasn’t done much which is also not normal. kJ in my mind is a plodding stalwart detective. This kJ is a gadfly flitting about. (This is not derogatory or denigrating, more of a mental image of the person in question. You are all my very best friends because I will fire you if you aren’t)
@John
If you get a chance to look back at my question to you from a page or two ago and get back to me I’d be much obliged.
@Slothful
The worst thing about prison was the... was the dementors. They were flying all over the place and they were scary and then they'd come down and they'd suck the soul out of your body. And it hurt!
Just tone reads, and basic skimming over isos. I liked what I was reading, and how they were handling themselves. I won't lie, those aren't really hottake reads, they are pretty standard from what I am looking at.
Why not ask me about my hot takes? Town lean on Zio and wolf read on Vaimes?
As far as KJ goes, I feel like he flits about quite a bit until later days. I have never been super impressed with his posts few days. Wouldn't mind lighting a fire under him with vaimes
The GJ way path to no lynching:
We’ll have to agree to disagree on KJ, particularly from the last game I played with him. That was a serious, thoughtful town player. He may have fluffed a bit but there was certainly more to his game.
And I can see a Vaimes Wolf World, but that’s paranoia for me at this stage and I couldn’t point to a real AI thing. What do you see?
GJ, I’d say whatever you’re using to read my mind, teach me.
It's not some cunning plan by the scum (or if it is they are freaking high level), it's a meta issue. I don't actually have a clue what the current site-meta is like (maybe the issue is only with this game?), but back in my day (grumpyoldman.gif) at this point of the game we'd already see giant cancerous walls of quotes fly around in every direction, and more importantly people would be trying to convince other people to vote like they do. I've seen very little of that actually happen in this thread, instead the common modus operandi seems to be to place your vote somewhere, maaayybe wrap a case around it (but not a big one, a couple paragraphs at the very most), and people either like it or they don't.
On the one hand I don't mind that the meta has chilled out from the days of calling for blood at the slightest wrong movement (and I cannot stress out enough how much I hate wall-of-quotes posts), but on the other hand rabidness and overreactions move the game forward.
Instead we have bull***** like FlargBlarg's early push on Vaimes that crumbled into dust at the slightest hint of resistance, or Zionite's recent case (#607) on KCC that may look nice with links, but sure as **** does not look like he's that interested in getting her lynched.
I'd love to bring the change I want to see, but I'll be V/LA until March 1st so that's one more thing that will have to wait.
I'm not yet ready to give my current reads (I want to do things properly and not flip-flop on them as they change throughout my catch-up), but currently I think Zionite is low-hanging fruit and am uneasy with how slow his wagon is going despite of that, and I think FlargBlarg and Vaimes deserve more attention for that early interaction that looked suspiciously like *****ty distancing.
I'm impatient to be caught up so I can write more of these long-winded condescending walls of text. It's been a very long while.
*hears the sound of sloth being triggered in the distance*
In my humble opinion it’s what’s not coming from town!Killjoy.
You misunderstand, or I phrased it poorly. What I meant was that the same reasons I am not a huge fan of your slot, are starting to apply to KJ.
He can get lazy about posting and snarky in response. His last two/three posts I thought have been pretty analytical like he is trying to solve. I think he is pretty town, and really the only hesitation in that read is how many of my own town reads are voting him. KCC is the only one and that is more of a null read.
Jacks a bit of spicier wolf read. So I don't have to reread your iso, why do you think there has to be a wolf there, and can they both be town or both be wolves?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
GJ Mind walking me through the wolf KJ and Vaimes thought process you're having? Is it a partnering lean you're getting or a one or the other?
It’s in their responses to earlier pressure. Jack had a “why me, not them” response and seemed AtE and... petulant? Now they seem hesitant to rock the boat and I feel that could indicate scum looking for a window.
Zio was also defensive and had his own “why me, not them” moment. Since, he has made an effort to walk things back And present his earlier takes as not being that meaningful or purposely. I don’t like the rolling over approach to the wagon and feel like if he’s concerned with going down and is town he should be giving his thoughts on the other slots.
It could be my brain seeking patterns, but the dynamic between them makes me think there’s a wolf there. I’d be very shocked if there was two, and less shocked if they were both town. I can see a world where Zio is truthful about his mistakes and Jack is upset town trying to refocus on the game.