@Jackrito
I will wait for Sloth to jump in, in regards to Flarg
TLDR: Scum lean, his iso isnt wolfy for the most part, but it isn't townie either, and he had some questionable reactions, which Sloth can get to
I think this team is highly unlikely
Tom/Flarg/Zion
I would agree that team is unlikely, my reads are a bit messed up with Grapes flip since he was pretty lock scum for me. I have no idea where I stand on Zion anymore, KCC still scum reads him though. I also think Tom is town based off yesterday or he is just insanely good at faking confidence.
That is all for my case on Flarg, really sorry about the part with the non-working links I should have previewed
Re Zionite "@ZDS: can you point me to what you mean about the KCC comment shield when you get a chance?"
See #871.
Re Slothful "Are you saying that because it's too late for a counterwagon you're not going to tell us what you think?"
Yes.
I hate everything about Rhand's #1356. 1) Tom's purity doesn't make him right, 2) Why the need to be on the lynch wagon?
I don't mind KCC's hammer.
Not fond of Slothful's #1433, it's too easy to go after the main proponent of a town-lynch-wagon and what has tom's done that was scummy besides maybe that? I need to re-read (urgggg) Slothful to see his progression on tom, from ISOing his last few posts I don't see an obvious attack.
Re Grape's death: I don't have an opinion, I'll need to double-check what reads he had and check if he gave out power-role hints. Is Grapefruit considered a strong player?
is Grapefruit a strong player?
No, like no offense to him, but its still a no
like in worlds where he is even right, I think he gets mislynched most of the time, due to his overall playstyle anyways
so this is a weird kill
I hate this forum software so much. I hate the spam filter (probably the reason why my post got broken: too many links), I hate the pointless preview feature that doesn't jump you to the last page, I hate that whatever you typed gets deleted when you jump to another page, I hate the *****-tier ISO feature, etc. It's painful how much backwards we've gone from ten years ago.
Re Grapefruit my best guess is that the scum saw him as a power role, then.
If anyone wants me to repost my Flarg case in more bits so the links don't get messed up I will. I don't want people to skip it.
I hate this forum software so much. I hate the spam filter (probably the reason why my post got broken: too many links), I hate the pointless preview feature that doesn't jump you to the last page, I hate that whatever you typed gets deleted when you jump to another page, I hate the *****-tier ISO feature, etc. It's painful how much backwards we've gone from ten years ago.
Re Grapefruit my best guess is that the scum saw him as a power role, then.
If anyone wants me to repost my Flarg case in more bits so the links don't get messed up I will. I don't want people to skip it.
...if you're going to lynch me after I was one of the few people right about the meta case on KJ being horse*****.
Sure, his claim threw me off, but like... I was right. If you want to lynch me go ahead and do it and I can stop caring about this site where people have overblown egos (you know who you are) and ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped on "KJ IS WEIRD LUL" or didn't post much at all.
After that he does nothing relevant for a while, then comes back with a series of posts that end with him voting Zionite : #270, #275 and #280 (there are also unrelated posts inbetween that I don't think are relevant either way). In a vacuum and from a distance, these posts are fine: Flarg notices the game overall had a bad content ratio, notices two players in particular with a bad content ratio, and votes one of them.
However, there's a couple things I want to point out about that vote.
First, Zionite was already attracting attention. Rhand voted then attacked him in #110 and #112, tom defended him in #128 and #136, Grapefruit21 mentionned town-reading him in #162 Slothful voted him in #178, Jackrito weakly barned Slothful in #204, Lastwhisper weakly defended him in #209 (I hope I didn't miss anything). By the time FlargBlarg joined the wagon, Zionite was already a controversial figure.
Now, had Flarg merely barned or repeated the arguments already made by Rhand and Slothful, I would have seen nothing wrong with his voted. But here comes the second thing I want to point out: he didn't. Instead he made an extremely weak argument about Zionite not finding scum among the then-active players (at a time when there weren't that many of them, and it therefore wouldn't be weird to town-read or null-read them all; also keep that argument in mind, we will come back to it later). The addition of that weak argument shows self-consciousness about joining a wagon, ironically making it look even more like an opportunistic, rather than natural, vote. That's Exhibit #1 of FlargBlarg taking an opportunistic stance.
actually I'm salty and gonna post
I was ******* second on the Zion wagon, and have absolutely no idea how you can define that as opportunistic. My argument wasn't that Zion was not finding Scum, it's that page 3/4 had nothing going on but a lot of words and felt weird. I reread it and (correctly) identified KJ as Town who was overeager, so the scum ping must've come from Zion. I helped break RVS by being one of the first people here to cast a serious vote. but apparently that's opportunistic because clearly Scum want to do that.
Your point where if I had "merely barned or repeated the arguments already made by Rhand and Slothful" is a classic damned if you do damned if you don't. Had I repeated them you'd just come after me for making a safe argument that someone else had made, because I didn't want to stick my neck out by making an original argument.
I'm drunk and in no state to make serious posts but honestly, **** all of you if you're going to lynch me after I was one of the few people right about the meta case on KJ being horse*****.
Sure, his claim threw me off, but like... I was right. If you want to lynch me go ahead and do it and I can stop caring about this site where people have overblown egos (you know who you are) and ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped on "KJ IS WEIRD LUL" or didn't post much at all.
I was right too? lmao, the case was blown out of proportion sure, but like, that is no reason to shade everyone
there really isnt a need for this post, it doesnt help us read you at all, and most of us will just push you harder
IDK how you like him, and then are just like, "Mechanically he is probably a wolf now", because he claims a role which overall is pretty NAI
if someone is townie on a macro level, then no micro reasons should change that, is my personal opinion on the matter
ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped
I mean that's something we can work on? like town can be wrong
overblown ego is probably Tom, but that's something most of us already know
either way, attack the post not the player
I won't say anything else on the matter
Tom may have been wrong, but he was a driving force in creating a lynch, when last game where no lynched after a 3 week day 1
I know Tom can fake a case as a wolf, which is why I am still kinda hesitant, but like that push was not shallow at all, and wolf!Tom is probably the only one in this game that I think could go that hard in the paint
the worst thing coming out of Tom is probably his chainsaw onto me, which is disgusting honestly, but anyways vote: Flarg
I hate when they are outbursts like this just makes everything awkward, it always makes me scumread the person more as well, even though I know town can have emotion like this it just feels a bit much. Drunk posting is likely part of that though
Eventually FlargBlarg started coming around to the idea of both Zionite and Killjoy being town (#995, #1103), something I would be perfectly fine with (I came to the same conclusion myself) if he didn't take for-*******-ever to actually unvote. As a results he starts pushing for a CFD lynch on a low poster (#995, #1011, #1107, #1154).
It's an idea he started arguing from a theory perspective back in #520, so if anything he was being consistent — and if he was planning all along to get into that situation, which he very well may have been, then I have to give my respects to the guy. Now from my own perspective, I don't follow his point and think CFDs on inactives are especially horrible on Day 1. These lynches provide extremely little information (we do get a flip, but by definition low posters are also low on interactions so it's really not all that helpful) and are likely to result in Day 2 mostly being a repeat of Day 1. But we are not here to argue mafia theory, and no matter how much we think apart I would have been forced to agree to disagree if FlargBlarg had actually pushed his own idea. He didn't. Just like when he wished for a counterwagon and made no effort to create one, you can see him push platonically for a CFD lynch without actually picking a target and therefore without taking any risk. That's Exhibit #4 of FlargBlarg avoiding confrontation.
Also, remember when Flarg voted Zionite for wanting to look for scum in the inactives, at a time when there were many more of them (and therefore better odds of them containing scum)? I remember.
All of that is why I think FlargBlarg is scum until given very good reasons to think otherwise. He's been careful to a point that far exceeds mere playstyle, repeatedly avoided taking any stance that could put him in the spotlight. The couple times he did take a controversial stance, he always argued his case from the general perspective of mafia theory, an easy way out since he could have made basically the same posts outside of a game and they technically imply nothing about him. When these are the only opinions a player is willing to push in front of adversity, you know something is extremely wrong.
So do your part: either vote FlargBlarg, or if you think he's town, present your arguments. Don't stand there not committing. Don't be a FlargBlarg.
Ah yes, I remember how repeatedly telling Tom his case was bad and it should be ignored was "putting myself out of the spotlight". That definitely didn't take the overwhelming townlean on me away. The Town was right and KJ was clearly scum and I was clearly shortsighted for refusing to lynch him for being different.
Like do you have any self awareness of the fact that you were GONE all of D1? And I stayed out of the spotlight? Not any of the low posters? Even if you were gone for legit reasons, you want to tell me the people who barely posted in this thread *didn't* stay out of the spotlight?
I'm drunk and in no state to make serious posts but honestly, **** all of you if you're going to lynch me after I was one of the few people right about the meta case on KJ being horse*****.
Sure, his claim threw me off, but like... I was right. If you want to lynch me go ahead and do it and I can stop caring about this site where people have overblown egos (you know who you are) and ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped on "KJ IS WEIRD LUL" or didn't post much at all.
I was right too? lmao, the case was blown out of proportion sure, but like, that is no reason to shade everyone
there really isnt a need for this post, it doesnt help us read you at all, and most of us will just push you harder
IDK how you like him, and then are just like, "Mechanically he is probably a wolf now", because he claims a role which overall is pretty NAI
if someone is townie on a macro level, then no micro reasons should change that, is my personal opinion on the matter
ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped
I mean that's something we can work on? like town can be wrong
overblown ego is probably Tom, but that's something most of us already know
either way, attack the post not the player
I won't say anything else on the matter
Tom may have been wrong, but he was a driving force in creating a lynch, when last game where no lynched after a 3 week day 1
I know Tom can fake a case as a wolf, which is why I am still kinda hesitant, but like that push was not shallow at all, and wolf!Tom is probably the only one in this game that I think could go that hard in the paint
the worst thing coming out of Tom is probably his chainsaw onto me, which is disgusting honestly, but anyways vote: Flarg
Is that where the bar is site on this site? His case was bad and wrong, but at least he lynched someone???
I hate when they are outbursts like this just makes everything awkward, it always makes me scumread the person more as well, even though I know town can have emotion like this it just feels a bit much. Drunk posting is likely part of that though
meh
this is like really overblown
but like we still have a week
and in the meantime, we can look for other wolves outside Flarg if he is in fact a wolf
reminds me of when Josh called out Amrock in the good ole days on MS, and he had an outburst almost in the same manner
Amrock was a wolf
like you can talk about the good things you've done without the need to shade people
if you are town, then you should assume some of the people pushing you are also town, and wrong
does that make them bad? no? because 3/4 of this game is also uninformed, and pushing players is what makes mafia the game it is
I'm drunk and in no state to make serious posts but honestly, **** all of you if you're going to lynch me after I was one of the few people right about the meta case on KJ being horse*****.
Sure, his claim threw me off, but like... I was right. If you want to lynch me go ahead and do it and I can stop caring about this site where people have overblown egos (you know who you are) and ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped on "KJ IS WEIRD LUL" or didn't post much at all.
I was right too? lmao, the case was blown out of proportion sure, but like, that is no reason to shade everyone
there really isnt a need for this post, it doesnt help us read you at all, and most of us will just push you harder
IDK how you like him, and then are just like, "Mechanically he is probably a wolf now", because he claims a role which overall is pretty NAI
if someone is townie on a macro level, then no micro reasons should change that, is my personal opinion on the matter
ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped
I mean that's something we can work on? like town can be wrong
overblown ego is probably Tom, but that's something most of us already know
either way, attack the post not the player
I won't say anything else on the matter
Tom may have been wrong, but he was a driving force in creating a lynch, when last game where no lynched after a 3 week day 1
I know Tom can fake a case as a wolf, which is why I am still kinda hesitant, but like that push was not shallow at all, and wolf!Tom is probably the only one in this game that I think could go that hard in the paint
the worst thing coming out of Tom is probably his chainsaw onto me, which is disgusting honestly, but anyways vote: Flarg
Is that where the bar is site on this site? His case was bad and wrong, but at least he lynched someone???
Really????
stop shading this site, I respect the players here, even the ones that I butt heads with
Tom pushed a case, he was wrong, now we evaluate him, and the people that were on the train
its all we can do at this point
I also didn't say his case was bad, just kinda reachy? but town!Tom definitely believed his case here
wolf!Tom goes hard in the paint for what, one mislynch??? on day 1? lmao
and town are wrong all the time, its called being uninformed, its the context of everything that matters, not just, "Well he lynched a town, so he is a wolf"
My PoE scumpool from last night for anyone that cares:
Grape
YWF
GJ
Sloth
Tubba
KCC
ZDS
My cellmates had some very different opinions about some of these players, and Grape is obviously Town now, but if it helps here you go. Yesterday was TvT on the major wagons (at least I think, but if Zion is Scum, add another told-ya-so to my list) so I'm pretty sus of most of the players that just let it happpen.
I'm drunk and in no state to make serious posts but honestly, **** all of you if you're going to lynch me after I was one of the few people right about the meta case on KJ being horse*****.
Sure, his claim threw me off, but like... I was right. If you want to lynch me go ahead and do it and I can stop caring about this site where people have overblown egos (you know who you are) and ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped on "KJ IS WEIRD LUL" or didn't post much at all.
I was right too? lmao, the case was blown out of proportion sure, but like, that is no reason to shade everyone
there really isnt a need for this post, it doesnt help us read you at all, and most of us will just push you harder
IDK how you like him, and then are just like, "Mechanically he is probably a wolf now", because he claims a role which overall is pretty NAI
if someone is townie on a macro level, then no micro reasons should change that, is my personal opinion on the matter
ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped
I mean that's something we can work on? like town can be wrong
overblown ego is probably Tom, but that's something most of us already know
either way, attack the post not the player
I won't say anything else on the matter
Tom may have been wrong, but he was a driving force in creating a lynch, when last game where no lynched after a 3 week day 1
I know Tom can fake a case as a wolf, which is why I am still kinda hesitant, but like that push was not shallow at all, and wolf!Tom is probably the only one in this game that I think could go that hard in the paint
the worst thing coming out of Tom is probably his chainsaw onto me, which is disgusting honestly, but anyways vote: Flarg
Is that where the bar is site on this site? His case was bad and wrong, but at least he lynched someone???
Really????
stop shading this site, I respect the players here, even the ones that I butt heads with
Tom pushed a case, he was wrong, now we evaluate him, and the people that were on the train
its all we can do at this point
I also didn't say his case was bad, just kinda reachy? but town!Tom definitely believed his case here
wolf!Tom goes hard in the paint for what, one mislynch??? on day 1? lmao
and town are wrong all the time, its called being uninformed, its the context of everything that matters, not just, "Well he lynched a town, so he is a wolf"
I think I've said this before but I actually have Tom at hard town - his tone was genuine. If he's Scum it's a masterful fake and I applaud a job well done.
I'm just incredulous at "we should be thankful he drove a lynch! last time we NLed after 3 weeks". What that tells me is that the game where you NLed after 3 weeks, Town dropped the ball badly by doing nothing. Sure, something here is better than literally nothing, but it doesn't deserve kudos.
I more or less think its tvt, because the movement around both killjoy and zion, doesn't feel like either were a wolf
but like that is information that is easy to control when someone is informed
and Zion's iso really isnt townie
now if we to argue if anything out of his iso is wolfy, thats another topic
cause not being townie doesnt make one a wolf
@Flarg
evaluate ZDS's case when you are in a better state of mind
talk to me about my cellmates, because Sloth is probably the towniest player in this game
and Tubba seems pretty pure
I more or less think its tvt, because the movement around both killjoy and zion, doesn't feel like either were a wolf
but like that is information that is easy to control when someone is informed
and Zion's iso really isnt townie
now if we to argue if anything out of his iso is wolfy, thats another topic
cause not being townie doesnt make one a wolf
This came up a lot yesterday so going to ask, what in your mind is wolfy enough. I know we both got burned by bad town mislynchs a lot in the past, so play it more safe now.
@Flarg
evaluate ZDS's case when you are in a better state of mind
talk to me about my cellmates, because Sloth is probably the towniest player in this game
and Tubba seems pretty pure
Jack and Tom are the towniest players in this game.
I'll reevaluate, later, sure, I'll give you that promise.
How does Tubba seem pure? He's barely posted and what he has posted hasn't moved the needle at all?
I sort of still want GJ dead as well, but part of me feels that is going to be one of my typical mislynches on a bad town. The damn line between scum and town is too hard at times
I more or less think its tvt, because the movement around both killjoy and zion, doesn't feel like either were a wolf
but like that is information that is easy to control when someone is informed
and Zion's iso really isnt townie
now if we to argue if anything out of his iso is wolfy, thats another topic
cause not being townie doesnt make one a wolf
This came up a lot yesterday so going to ask, what in your mind is wolfy enough. I know we both got burned by bad town mislynchs a lot in the past, so play it more safe now.
YesterDay Flarg made a point to mention his read on Killjoy was null, toDay he wants credit for attacking the case. You can't have both. And like I've said in the humongous wall, attacking an argument from a general mafia theory perspective (without actually taking a stance on the players involved) is extremely safe and risk-free.
Stuff like this is why I say Flarg is taking it safe and staying out of the spotlights: he is posting, he is active, but he rarely takes a stance that would put him at risk of being questioned. The two times he did put his neck out on Day 1 (when attacking the case on KJ and when suggesting a CFD), he was shielded by mafia theory and argued his points from the same perspective he could have used outside of the game ("pure meta cases bad, D1 CFDs good").
If someone wants to point out where's the town perspective in there I'm all ears (KCC?).
(@Flarg this is very different from not posting at all for very good IRL reasons such as this *****ty forum not sending the e-mail notifications it's supposed to, and being too occupied with other stuff to check the forums, )
@Whispy: I'm from right here. I started playing in 2006 and mostly disappeared in ~2013/14, with sporadic come backs since then. After GDPR my posts got nuked. I had my stats in a Quicktopic but as you can see there's nothing left. If you need to meta me I can go back through the forum and make a list of games I remember playing — you will have to rely on other players quoting me though since, again, I got GDPR'd.
Re Flarg's #1461: IIRC you were third on Zionite, not second, but I'll chalk that up as you not taking an extra half-hour to double-check. I consider your Vaimes vote the first non-RVS vote, had you gone anywhere with it my opinion of you might have been extremely different. You will have to take me on my word when I say I wouldn't have attacked you for mindlessly wagonning Zionite.
I made a point to state it was null because people kept incorrectly stating it was town, which they kept doing because I was attacking the case. I don't understand what's difficult to get about that. Of course I'm going to attack a baseless case when I'm leading a wagon on the other guy. KJ was super hard to read because he was erratic and hyper, which is both why the case on him was bad and why I nulled him - everything he did was NAI.
I feel like you mentioning I was shielded by mafia theory is conceding something major. Your case is that I'm so versed in mafia theory that I can use it to shield everything I do as Scum, yet so oblivious that I don't see that the townreads on me are evaporating for it? It relies on me both being brilliant and incredibly stupid at the same time. The obvious, simple answer is that I kept pushing despite having townreads go away on me because I genuinely believed in what I was pushing and didn't give a ***** about the reads, because my job is to lynch Scum, not worry about how townread I am.
I was second on Zion, at least second of anyone who held their vote on him. Go read back.
Flarg was so pure in our cell chat that I am sure he's town.
I invite everyone to actually click the links in ZDS's case and compare them to what ZDS is saying. There's a lot of exaggerations and smears in there.
ZDS is using busswords like "self-conscious" and "opportunistic" in places where it's totally unwarranted.
I have started on a breakdown of the case, but it's becoming a huge wall and I don't think anyone will read it.
vote ZDS
@tom: how come you didn't change your perspective on KJ here when you saw his posting in token 4 where you were mafia together?
I hate everything about Rhand's #1356. 1) Tom's purity doesn't make him right, 2) Why the need to be on the lynch wagon?
1) no but it's good for the chance that he is
2) none of your business, you shouldn't post this, and you for sure shouldn't "hate" it
Hate is a very strong word too. Why that word?
I'm Steven Alpers, Bulletproof Network Administrator. No further questions about my role will be answered at this time.
Essentially, if you want to get rid of me this game, you are going to have to get me lynched - a lesson scum learned the hard way last Night when they tried to shoot me.
(Don't fret, though, historically, I'm not hard to ML.)
This tells us several things:
Scum either have multiple shots a Night (unlikely), or we have a Town Vig.
I do not see why Scum would ever feel a pressing need to get rid of Grape immediately, and I ISO'd him seconds ago. I do see some points of contention that may have made a Town vig shoot him, hence townvig shot him. (Ftr, vig, Grape? Seriously? Not Tom or Zion or any of the players that people will have a harder time making a choice on, but ****in' Grape?)
This is kind of an smug point, sorry, but it is relevant: I see plenty of reason why Scum would want to get rid of me, hence scum shot me.
Also, Last and Tubba are nigh-conf!Town at this point. Both were aware of my PR last Night and if they were scum they would have certainly told their teammates. I don't see them letting scum waste a shot on me just to see if I was lying. This can be revisited later, but no interest on them should be had toDay.
Anyway.
{Tom; Flarg; Z; KCC} >>> GJ (need to ISO) & Dork outliers
Scum team's here, pretty sure - outliers are more on a null-leaning side. Need to narrow things down and eliminate unlikelier scenarios: Several of these don't make much sense as w/w together. But once that's done, we're good.
Everyone outside of it, assume I have a townread of varying strength on.
However, you shouldn't tell me there's no scenario where scum!Tom (or you) does this if Zi's town: Votes are stalling, wagon was losing steam, etc.
Everyone 100% saw coming because we've all played mafia before and I'm sure no one can name a game where a seemingly strong wagon hasn't fizzled out around the midpoint mark of the Day. Any experienced mafia player would have known this was coming and, as scum, prepared for it; plus, as noted, Tom locked himself into KJ.
People were asking for a counterwagon and one was given. Even if it flips green, it's not necessarily damning for the one that propelled it (though I intend to make sure it is.)
Also there's the KCC factor: In a world where Zi is town and KCC is scum, it was around this time that the noose was starting to close in on her (when, again, people were wanting a counterwagon) so better give them a town one (KJ) before your buddy (KCC) is propped up.
So! Tom.
First, what was your initial reaction to KJ's flip and walk me through how it affects your viewing of the game?
Gotta get some work done at work before I get into the trenches here. But I DO want to ask...
KCC what the hell? Why throw a hammer down early? Especially when we have a questionable lurker finally beginning to at least twitch and at least one player talking about how they want to do an ISO on the two wagons.
Sorry, can we pause for a second? I wanna do something.
Oh my god I made it to D2! Oh my god I made it to D2! Oh my GOD, I made it to D2!
This is SO exciting!!!!
What do I do now? I don't even know! But I am in D2, *****es!
Forget my last post, I'm totally cool with being lynched now - I made it to D2, so I accomplished everything I ever wanted. I can retire off of this!
Hah! Anyway, let's focus on this game, fellow D2ers. We're so much better than those D1/N1 deadites! Such losers, amirite?.
You guys, we're in D2.
Sorry, can we pause for a second? I wanna do something.
Oh my god I made it to D2! Oh my god I made it to D2! Oh my GOD, I made it to D2!
This is SO exciting!!!!
What do I do now? I don't even know! But I am in D2, *****es!
Forget my last post, I'm totally cool with being lynched now - I made it to D2, so I accomplished everything I ever wanted. I can retire off of this!
Hah! Anyway, let's focus on this game, fellow D2ers. We're so much better than those D1/N1 deadites! Such losers, amirite?.
You guys, we're in D2.
I wanted to see his flip and there was nothing else to do D1
Also, I didn't want someone else to hammer first. If he was scum, I wanted to be able to say I helped lynch him D1. And if town, and he went down because I misread him and didn't defend him, I wanted to own that
Flarg was so pure in our cell chat that I am sure he's town.
I invite everyone to actually click the links in ZDS's case and compare them to what ZDS is saying. There's a lot of exaggerations and smears in there.
ZDS is using busswords like "self-conscious" and "opportunistic" in places where it's totally unwarranted.
I have started on a breakdown of the case, but it's becoming a huge wall and I don't think anyone will read it.
vote ZDS
I haven't read zdss case in thread yet, but the arguments made in our chat were awful. I'm still debating if it's some mix of rusty/overconfident/tunneled or willful ignorance.
Flarg is also one of my strongest townreads after reviewing him last Night
I'd rather lynch Zion, but grape being town moves zds squarely into my lynch pool
@rhand: Can you elaborate at all on Tubba? I don't have a great read on him from the thread
KCC what the hell? Why throw a hammer down early? Especially when we have a questionable lurker finally beginning to at least twitch and at least one player talking about how they want to do an ISO on the two wagons.
What do you consider early? Because I'm strongly against the sites current meta of lynches can only happen within 10 mins of deadline. That time is the maximum, not the minimum length. If someone wanted the lynch to wait, they should have said something.
I would agree that team is unlikely, my reads are a bit messed up with Grapes flip since he was pretty lock scum for me. I have no idea where I stand on Zion anymore, KCC still scum reads him though. I also think Tom is town based off yesterday or he is just insanely good at faking confidence.
Back in 20 ish hours.
Re Zionite "@ZDS: can you point me to what you mean about the KCC comment shield when you get a chance?"
See #871.
Re Slothful "Are you saying that because it's too late for a counterwagon you're not going to tell us what you think?"
Yes.
I hate everything about Rhand's #1356. 1) Tom's purity doesn't make him right, 2) Why the need to be on the lynch wagon?
I don't mind KCC's hammer.
Not fond of Slothful's #1433, it's too easy to go after the main proponent of a town-lynch-wagon and what has tom's done that was scummy besides maybe that? I need to re-read (urgggg) Slothful to see his progression on tom, from ISOing his last few posts I don't see an obvious attack.
Re Grape's death: I don't have an opinion, I'll need to double-check what reads he had and check if he gave out power-role hints. Is Grapefruit considered a strong player?
No, like no offense to him, but its still a no
like in worlds where he is even right, I think he gets mislynched most of the time, due to his overall playstyle anyways
so this is a weird kill
you ready to thunderdome me?
Re Grapefruit my best guess is that the scum saw him as a power role, then.
If anyone wants me to repost my Flarg case in more bits so the links don't get messed up I will. I don't want people to skip it.
Sure, his claim threw me off, but like... I was right. If you want to lynch me go ahead and do it and I can stop caring about this site where people have overblown egos (you know who you are) and ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped on "KJ IS WEIRD LUL" or didn't post much at all.
actually I'm salty and gonna post
I was ******* second on the Zion wagon, and have absolutely no idea how you can define that as opportunistic. My argument wasn't that Zion was not finding Scum, it's that page 3/4 had nothing going on but a lot of words and felt weird. I reread it and (correctly) identified KJ as Town who was overeager, so the scum ping must've come from Zion. I helped break RVS by being one of the first people here to cast a serious vote. but apparently that's opportunistic because clearly Scum want to do that.
Your point where if I had "merely barned or repeated the arguments already made by Rhand and Slothful" is a classic damned if you do damned if you don't. Had I repeated them you'd just come after me for making a safe argument that someone else had made, because I didn't want to stick my neck out by making an original argument.
there really isnt a need for this post, it doesnt help us read you at all, and most of us will just push you harder
IDK how you like him, and then are just like, "Mechanically he is probably a wolf now", because he claims a role which overall is pretty NAI
if someone is townie on a macro level, then no micro reasons should change that, is my personal opinion on the matter
ignore all of the derps who blindly sheeped
I mean that's something we can work on? like town can be wrong
overblown ego is probably Tom, but that's something most of us already know
either way, attack the post not the player
I won't say anything else on the matter
Tom may have been wrong, but he was a driving force in creating a lynch, when last game where no lynched after a 3 week day 1
I know Tom can fake a case as a wolf, which is why I am still kinda hesitant, but like that push was not shallow at all, and wolf!Tom is probably the only one in this game that I think could go that hard in the paint
the worst thing coming out of Tom is probably his chainsaw onto me, which is disgusting honestly, but anyways
vote: Flarg
why did you hammer Killjoy like that?
Ah yes, I remember how repeatedly telling Tom his case was bad and it should be ignored was "putting myself out of the spotlight". That definitely didn't take the overwhelming townlean on me away. The Town was right and KJ was clearly scum and I was clearly shortsighted for refusing to lynch him for being different.
Like do you have any self awareness of the fact that you were GONE all of D1? And I stayed out of the spotlight? Not any of the low posters? Even if you were gone for legit reasons, you want to tell me the people who barely posted in this thread *didn't* stay out of the spotlight?
Is that where the bar is site on this site? His case was bad and wrong, but at least he lynched someone???
Really????
this is like really overblown
but like we still have a week
and in the meantime, we can look for other wolves outside Flarg if he is in fact a wolf
reminds me of when Josh called out Amrock in the good ole days on MS, and he had an outburst almost in the same manner
like you can talk about the good things you've done without the need to shade people
if you are town, then you should assume some of the people pushing you are also town, and wrong
does that make them bad? no? because 3/4 of this game is also uninformed, and pushing players is what makes mafia the game it is
Tom pushed a case, he was wrong, now we evaluate him, and the people that were on the train
its all we can do at this point
I also didn't say his case was bad, just kinda reachy? but town!Tom definitely believed his case here
wolf!Tom goes hard in the paint for what, one mislynch??? on day 1? lmao
and town are wrong all the time, its called being uninformed, its the context of everything that matters, not just, "Well he lynched a town, so he is a wolf"
Grape
YWF
GJ
Sloth
Tubba
KCC
ZDS
My cellmates had some very different opinions about some of these players, and Grape is obviously Town now, but if it helps here you go. Yesterday was TvT on the major wagons (at least I think, but if Zion is Scum, add another told-ya-so to my list) so I'm pretty sus of most of the players that just let it happpen.
I think I've said this before but I actually have Tom at hard town - his tone was genuine. If he's Scum it's a masterful fake and I applaud a job well done.
I'm just incredulous at "we should be thankful he drove a lynch! last time we NLed after 3 weeks". What that tells me is that the game where you NLed after 3 weeks, Town dropped the ball badly by doing nothing. Sure, something here is better than literally nothing, but it doesn't deserve kudos.
but like that is information that is easy to control when someone is informed
and Zion's iso really isnt townie
now if we to argue if anything out of his iso is wolfy, thats another topic
cause not being townie doesnt make one a wolf
evaluate ZDS's case when you are in a better state of mind
talk to me about my cellmates, because Sloth is probably the towniest player in this game
and Tubba seems pretty pure
This came up a lot yesterday so going to ask, what in your mind is wolfy enough. I know we both got burned by bad town mislynchs a lot in the past, so play it more safe now.
Just give me an example of what is wolfy enough.
Jack and Tom are the towniest players in this game.
I'll reevaluate, later, sure, I'll give you that promise.
How does Tubba seem pure? He's barely posted and what he has posted hasn't moved the needle at all?
anyways off to bed
Stuff like this is why I say Flarg is taking it safe and staying out of the spotlights: he is posting, he is active, but he rarely takes a stance that would put him at risk of being questioned. The two times he did put his neck out on Day 1 (when attacking the case on KJ and when suggesting a CFD), he was shielded by mafia theory and argued his points from the same perspective he could have used outside of the game ("pure meta cases bad, D1 CFDs good").
If someone wants to point out where's the town perspective in there I'm all ears (KCC?).
(@Flarg this is very different from not posting at all for very good IRL reasons such as this *****ty forum not sending the e-mail notifications it's supposed to, and being too occupied with other stuff to check the forums, )
@Whispy: I'm from right here. I started playing in 2006 and mostly disappeared in ~2013/14, with sporadic come backs since then. After GDPR my posts got nuked. I had my stats in a Quicktopic but as you can see there's nothing left. If you need to meta me I can go back through the forum and make a list of games I remember playing — you will have to rely on other players quoting me though since, again, I got GDPR'd.
Re Flarg's #1461: IIRC you were third on Zionite, not second, but I'll chalk that up as you not taking an extra half-hour to double-check. I consider your Vaimes vote the first non-RVS vote, had you gone anywhere with it my opinion of you might have been extremely different. You will have to take me on my word when I say I wouldn't have attacked you for mindlessly wagonning Zionite.
I feel like you mentioning I was shielded by mafia theory is conceding something major. Your case is that I'm so versed in mafia theory that I can use it to shield everything I do as Scum, yet so oblivious that I don't see that the townreads on me are evaporating for it? It relies on me both being brilliant and incredibly stupid at the same time. The obvious, simple answer is that I kept pushing despite having townreads go away on me because I genuinely believed in what I was pushing and didn't give a ***** about the reads, because my job is to lynch Scum, not worry about how townread I am.
I was second on Zion, at least second of anyone who held their vote on him. Go read back.
I invite everyone to actually click the links in ZDS's case and compare them to what ZDS is saying. There's a lot of exaggerations and smears in there.
ZDS is using busswords like "self-conscious" and "opportunistic" in places where it's totally unwarranted.
I have started on a breakdown of the case, but it's becoming a huge wall and I don't think anyone will read it.
vote ZDS
@tom: how come you didn't change your perspective on KJ here when you saw his posting in token 4 where you were mafia together?
1) no but it's good for the chance that he is
2) none of your business, you shouldn't post this, and you for sure shouldn't "hate" it
Hate is a very strong word too. Why that word?
Would lynch though
vote gentleman johnny
As a courtesy I'll not vote anyone right now.
I honestly forgot that mechanic was a thing at night.
I did get your note though. I am slightly curious why you seem so sure I was town?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Weekends, just to reiterate are always going to be dead zones. Especially during busy season.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I'm Steven Alpers, Bulletproof Network Administrator. No further questions about my role will be answered at this time.
Essentially, if you want to get rid of me this game, you are going to have to get me lynched - a lesson scum learned the hard way last Night when they tried to shoot me.
(Don't fret, though, historically, I'm not hard to ML.)
This tells us several things:
{Tom; Flarg; Z; KCC} >>> GJ (need to ISO) & Dork outliers
Scum team's here, pretty sure - outliers are more on a null-leaning side. Need to narrow things down and eliminate unlikelier scenarios: Several of these don't make much sense as w/w together. But once that's done, we're good.
Everyone outside of it, assume I have a townread of varying strength on.
Here comes the fun part. So! Tom.
First, what was your initial reaction to KJ's flip and walk me through how it affects your viewing of the game?
Vote KCC
The GJ way path to no lynching:
FlargBlarg (3): Jackrito, ZeDorkSlipeur, Lastwhisper
ZeDorkSlipeur (2): Vaimes, Rhand
Gentleman Johnny (1): Tomsloger
KittyCupCake (1): Gentleman Johnny
Not Voting (6): FlargBlarg, Tubba Fett, Zionite, Slothful, KittyCupCake, YWFMLF
Zionite is V/LA until 3/10
Vaimes is V/LA until 3/8
Gentleman Johnny is V/LA weekends
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is March 14th at 2000 MST.
KCC what the hell? Why throw a hammer down early? Especially when we have a questionable lurker finally beginning to at least twitch and at least one player talking about how they want to do an ISO on the two wagons.
Oh my god I made it to D2!
Oh my god I made it to D2!
Oh my GOD, I made it to D2!
This is SO exciting!!!!
What do I do now? I don't even know! But I am in D2, *****es!
Forget my last post, I'm totally cool with being lynched now - I made it to D2, so I accomplished everything I ever wanted. I can retire off of this!
Hah! Anyway, let's focus on this game, fellow D2ers. We're so much better than those D1/N1 deadites! Such losers, amirite?.
You guys, we're in D2.
......what?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
(It's been a while since I made it to one.)
Sloth never makes it to D2. He annoys the bejesus out of everyone and they just lynch or NK him to get respite.
I wanted to see his flip and there was nothing else to do D1
Also, I didn't want someone else to hammer first. If he was scum, I wanted to be able to say I helped lynch him D1. And if town, and he went down because I misread him and didn't defend him, I wanted to own that
I haven't read zdss case in thread yet, but the arguments made in our chat were awful. I'm still debating if it's some mix of rusty/overconfident/tunneled or willful ignorance.
Flarg is also one of my strongest townreads after reviewing him last Night
I'd rather lynch Zion, but grape being town moves zds squarely into my lynch pool
@rhand: Can you elaborate at all on Tubba? I don't have a great read on him from the thread
What do you consider early? Because I'm strongly against the sites current meta of lynches can only happen within 10 mins of deadline. That time is the maximum, not the minimum length. If someone wanted the lynch to wait, they should have said something.
vote zds way better than the other wagon