I think the worst part of sloths case is the middle bit where he tries to predict how towntom would react to kj flipping town and what he expects sounds like noob scum or the shallowest town player ever.
"He said hed look at last and johnny and all he did was... interact with them and try to solve them independently of kj."
So the people still pushing me, you aren’t changing your mind on me because you are dead set kcc is scum.
Stop and see what I am doing. I am asking questions, searching, and trying to read. If I was scum replacing into this god awful slot I would give up. Seriously.
I would like to concider everyone still pushing kcc slot who is ignoring my play and sticking on kcc. Scum move right there. Ignoring the replacement and still pushing my predicessor. Kcc is gone. Rodemy is here. Why is RODEMY scum?
See, I was going to give you that opportunity but the more this meltdown proceeds the less I trust that decision. Especially that crappy "for science" vote on me. If you crumble under pressure for votes you don't even have, what are you so nervous about?
There’s plenty of other parts of the case that don’t involve your being wrong on KJ. I’m not convinced by your responses at all.
ok, what parts speak to you?
I can address you directly.
It's like your responses are so hand-waving dismissive like powerwolf BSing your way through. The biggest point being it's gotten us nowhere so far and you were talking such a big game with nothing to show for it. At least I would try to break it down; where Sloth makes incorrect assumptions or giant leaps of logic or something. The way you've gone about it so far is exactly what I would expect from a powerwolf strategy.
@Zionite Re #1948
1) Will you reconsider your town read on Johnny if Rhand flips town? If yes, is there already something about Johnny's attack on Rhand that would justify this?
2) Will you maintain your town read on Johnny if Rhand flips scum? If yes, is there already something about Johnny's attack on Rhand that makes it look like it can't be a bus?
Basically, prove to me you aren't setting yourself up to go after Johnny purely for being wrong.
3) To clarify on my vote pool, no I don't believe they are the full scum team. I believe you three are most likely to flip scum.
4) To clarify on KCC/Rod, YWF made a decent case against KCC and Rodemy has been flinging OMGUSes everywhere, both of which toned down my town read on the slot without reversing it.
1 & 2) It's not so tied up like this. The reads on each player are independent, and where they cross was when GJ's pushed on Rhand. Things like that are useful for solving. So these questions already don't seem right because my read is not dependent on Rhand being town/scum. But yeah, if GJ made a bad push I'd definitely reconsider and dive deeper, try to see if it was intentional or if there were signs I missed before. You know, playing the game. I never tried to set up a lynch and if you think anyone is listening to what I have to say anyways, well you're giving me wayy too much credit. Many players are sure I'm scum so I don't know why they'd go for my devious plan to set up a lynch on GJ, who I've been solidly town reading for the majority of the game.
So out of all my town reads, I think the one I'm most unsure about is GJ. Especially with his recent vote. That and his ignoring all the communication tools he has with me is susp.
3) Okay, so why the hard-line stance then if you acknowledge you may be wrong?
4) Alright.
I would also swap LW and Zionite spot wise on that list. I looked at it again, and I was kind of a tie there. I posted it the original way per my last few lists, but I didn't particular like Zionite this game day.
Game is hard.
Even harder when you have vacation for most of the game Day.
@ymwfwathever you should place your vote so tom claims and we can move on.
A stalled game this close to deadline is meh. And sadly typical for the last years of mtgs :/
Ok so. Nonzero chance i get nightkilled. Depending on worlds.
So this is the legacy i wish to leave:
A. Grapefuit21
A. Tomsloger
A. YWFMLF
B. Gentleman Johnny
B. Killjoy
B. Zionite
C. Lastwhisper
C. Slothful
C. Tubba Fett
D. Jackrito
D. KittyCupCake
D. ZeDorkSlipeur
E. FlargBlarg
E. Rhand
E. Vaimes
i do not actually wish to leave a legacy on grape, ywf, jack, kcc, zds, flarg, rhand, or vaimes. Thats over half the game that, if im dead, just read for yourself.
Not saying i dont have opinions, but theyre contradictory/not that strong/too tied up in other things/blah
~~~~~
Everything ive said about KJ stands. Its my most confident read, might compile my whole case in one place if it looks like hes weaseling out of the lynch, but not here.
But even with that confidence and that "KJ is scum" perspective, last has actively felt like scumlast unable to bring himself to push anyone...
Overarching point is I think Last's (lack of) read on KJ is disingenuous regardless of his alignment. I see 4 options here:
>scumlast TMIing townkj
>scumlast forcing a defense of partnerkj
>townlast rebelling against the read because he hates when im right
>townlast... actually having a strong townread of KJ that hes choosing not to say?
I dont believe in the fourth one. Perhaps yall will have better luck choosing between the other 3
~~~~~~~
Tubba is town regardless of KJ flip. Some of this is mindmeld because his push on KJ was good and before it was cool.
But if KJ flips scum you dont need me to tell you this. In the event hes town, still dont touch my tubba.
His <impact to postcount ratio> and level of background thinking are very positive signs. Dont let the low activity fool you.
Gentleman johnny is the anti-tubba. He has way more posts than you think because hes done ****-all with them. I think i just accidentally defended grape when im just sticking him back in null because gj was such a better example of what terraine was attacking grape for...
Dudes probably scum.
Sloth might need the opposite caveat as tubba. Sure he probably spent most of the day defending scumkilljoy without townreading him. But the way he went about it was so... solvey. Defense to make ME justify myself. Still kind of prodding at KJ. Looking at zion around the kj wagon. Etc.
~~~~~~~
Zion i still dont want my legacy to be an overarching townread. The post i made when his wagon was first popping up about shaking off the rust was very much a direct response to the reasons he was being pushed at the time. Which i maintain were bad.
But thats not a be all end all, its an establishing point. So if you want my help reading him, start from there and look at what the tinman has done since he got his joints moving correctly and picked up some WD-40 in the form of <a wagon on himself to analyze> and perhaps some flips.
Hes a player whos alignment should shibe through more and more as the game goes on.
Dont be like tom and let your read stagnate.
ok im here before catching up on today and whatever rereading i do to start fixing my perspective on this gamestate.
But going over the kj wagon in my head a little.
Last definitely had the worst defense of him. Because it was literally nothing. Like, flarg has a stupid aversion to meta on principal. Last doesnt have that.
A few people just didnt like the case but (unlike last) that didnt suddenly make him a strong townread.
But as ive said it can easily be a fake read coming from townlast too. But i do think townlast usually hammers when he said he would...
Theres also a group that positioned themselves like "yes this can die because tom said so" with some other agendas.
Speaking here mainly of GJ and rhand, but grape, zion and vaimes with some of it too. Specifically gj made sure that any blowback on his kj push would land on me, which felt iffy at the time and worse with flip.
Rhand didnt push kj or me at all really but played up <something dichotomous>
I think my last thought from kj wagon is if there werent a bunch of scum there already, one would want to push it that last little bit after his claim. So im, like, slightly sus on flarg/kcc but not in any concrete way just a thing to think on
I made it all the way through ZDS walls this time.
I think pretty much all the "avoiding confrontation" exhibits are pretty useless to me without meta (loltom) because i can definitely see that being playstyle, but ill say if it is playstyle its a fairly convenient one for scum (yes yes, pot>kettle)
But the opportunism bits are solid and ZDS is very right that flarg definitely doesnt want to create the change he claims to want in the thread.
Dont think reading that changed my feelings on flarg really, but i might like the trajectory from ZDS.
And i kinda felt ok about him towards eod. His posts kinda sucked then but they did feel like a sucky towny that didnt know what was going on...
I would still like to hear him justify that kj defense though because it was exceptionally inaccurate...but meh
Thinking about D made me want to look at the others.
A. Grapefuit21
A. Tomsloger
A. YWFMLF
B. Gentleman Johnny
B. Killjoy
B. Zionite
C. Lastwhisper
C. Slothful
C. Tubba Fett
D. Jackrito
D. KittyCupCake
D. ZeDorkSlipeur
E. FlargBlarg
E. Rhand
E. Vaimes
If there was 1 in each cell...
Ywf/gj/last/kcc/rhand
Thats not teambuilding that would be dumb thats in a vacuum
E seems shadiest but just by virtue of having no one townie in it. B if youd asked me before kj flip...
D remains actively discordant. None of C seem to agree on anything either?
Most likely all-town group... probably mine, C, or D.
If i could kill a group outright...
Well B kills my current vote and reveals zions alignment that feels like the best move.
But i might choose E those flips almost would have to break this ***** open
I think my main thought on kcc yesterday was the way she interacted with the kj wagon made sense as a buddy because its that powerishwolf play so many people do where they dont bus but sort of let town lynch their buddies anyway because they cant commit...
But uh
Its just a crappy stance regardless.
Think im gonna roll with this case + my impression of her positioning within her cellblock
Ive read all johnnys posts multiple times. I think hes a bit better than rhand says but still substantially worse than he seems to view himself.
Like, he certainly didnt kick and scream to make anyone do anything.
But i dont think johnny not realizing the impact of his posts is AI at all and despite rhand being.... technically right..
That exchange makes me feel worse about rhand
Generally accepted <optimal use> of a vig shot would be zion the counterwagon.
Like, it gives so much clarity to d1 wagons that if i were vig i probably would have shot him while thinking he would flip town. Easiest decision of my life if i thought he was a wolf.
still not seeing how answering this question is anything but "continuing to play mafia" my dude. So im gonna keep... yknow, answering.
Ok. This is probably going to get us nowhere so I'm not going to get stuck on it.
Then another question: What's your read on Last now? On a town!KJ world, you listed him as scummy, but don't appear to be following that thread. What changed?
Yes. Factually, an extra kill can be town. SK, or scum. Approximately that order of likelihood.
Would say that order holds for mtgs or MU, DLP probably scumvig more likely than SK but its marginal.
Are these things really surprising to you?
I mean. Yes?
I'm used to games where you know if there's more than two factions, and I don't think I've ever played a game with a scumVig.
nothing changed? General opinion on last is i can see him being a wolf wrt kj wagon but seems ~fine otherwise.
Squarely in my poe.
I think what youre looking for is some sudden shift immediately following his flip, but im never gonna work that way. I thought about both worlds day 1. And overnight. And most of today with fairly transparent posting about it.
Idk i think you want a straight line with an angle when im mostly shades of gray and squiggles.
But i guess we'll see when you post your case thats almost certainly too late in the day to accomplish anything but you should probably get out anyway...
~~~~~
Neutrals/SKs DO NOT count as multiball/another faction, but its still less common than a town vig and frankly you handle it the same scum have to deal with him if hes got a bunch of shots so whatever.
Ive played multiple games with scum vig, both here and your homesite, in the last year.
Prison block 1 had a scum vig of sorts.
So yeah.
But i wouldnt lynch him today. Townvig is ~most likely and i think the case on him is largely playstyle based so
Grape by reputation is a better townplayer than me, probably than rhand too. I disagree with the latter but i think i have a higher opinion of rhand (as either alignment) than just about anyone.
So hed be a pretty good SK target.
But that not necessarily relevant since, yknow, no idea what flargs opinion on this is. Of grape as a player or of how to choose shots/if he planned to claim it/etc
Ftr, if i was SK id have shot last because he scumreads me no matter what and just... generally frustrates me lol
~~~~~
Kcc became a wagon because of terrs case. She wouldnt have seen that coming any more than flarg would have seen zds'
If she was scum she certainly spent time trying to look good in light of kj townflip.
I also just... would be incredibly disappointed in her if her peacing out was strategic in some way and wont really consider those worlds
Anyway i think zds' thoughts on this are better than sloths by a pretty significant margin, but about equally towny
I wanted to see his flip and there was nothing else to do D1
Also, I didn't want someone else to hammer first. If he was scum, I wanted to be able to say I helped lynch him D1. And if town, and he went down because I misread him and didn't defend him, I wanted to own that
Flarg was so pure in our cell chat that I am sure he's town.
I invite everyone to actually click the links in ZDS's case and compare them to what ZDS is saying. There's a lot of exaggerations and smears in there.
ZDS is using busswords like "self-conscious" and "opportunistic" in places where it's totally unwarranted.
I have started on a breakdown of the case, but it's becoming a huge wall and I don't think anyone will read it.
vote ZDS
I haven't read zdss case in thread yet, but the arguments made in our chat were awful. I'm still debating if it's some mix of rusty/overconfident/tunneled or willful ignorance.
Flarg is also one of my strongest townreads after reviewing him last Night
I'd rather lynch Zion, but grape being town moves zds squarely into my lynch pool
@rhand: Can you elaborate at all on Tubba? I don't have a great read on him from the thread
KCC what the hell? Why throw a hammer down early? Especially when we have a questionable lurker finally beginning to at least twitch and at least one player talking about how they want to do an ISO on the two wagons.
What do you consider early? Because I'm strongly against the sites current meta of lynches can only happen within 10 mins of deadline. That time is the maximum, not the minimum length. If someone wanted the lynch to wait, they should have said something.
I have started on a breakdown of the case, but it's becoming a huge wall and I don't think anyone will read it.
Do you want to take half, and I'll tackle the other?
Im really not seeing the world where she came in thinking she was doomed.
Shes explaining herself, forcing camraderie. She was gonna live imo
But if she was, i can see the argument that rhand isnt her partner. But that would make zds even less likely a buddy with that hesitation/possible TMI that hes rusty/etc
Looking at this makes me question rhand/kcc a little. I dont agree with the sloth premise but she did look like she wanted to work with rhand/share the blame for zds mislynch...
Anyway im at kccslot and rhand as most likely scum, but <rand together by an amount.
In conjunction with, well, liking rod and not necessarily wanting to kill him immediately...
Wouldnt want people to have to read full sentences to know my reads
actually ive shuffled a bit but this more or less holds. Think that top 6 just holistically feels town and i expect all or most of the scumteam in that bottom 6
Would maybe make a middle section of, like, johnny, flarg, and <the remainder of kcc/rhand if one flips scum>
Sloth was the nightkill probs
Jack and tubba have that doing their own thing/progressiony background thinking
Zds feels like he believes what hes saying and is working through it
Ywf is a solvey and opinionated woman that dont need no buddies
Zion could probably move down to the aforementioned middle section
Ok that would be
There’s plenty of other parts of the case that don’t involve your being wrong on KJ. I’m not convinced by your responses at all.
ok, what parts speak to you?
I can address you directly.
It's like your responses are so hand-waving dismissive like powerwolf BSing your way through. The biggest point being it's gotten us nowhere so far and you were talking such a big game with nothing to show for it. At least I would try to break it down; where Sloth makes incorrect assumptions or giant leaps of logic or something. The way you've gone about it so far is exactly what I would expect from a powerwolf strategy.
first of all, you dont know what powerwolfing means...
But ill answer this with the definition in your head.
Yes thats exactly what i did.
Sloths main premises are:
>toms kj case had no merit
>tom has done nothing
>tom didnt react to being wrong on kj
Which of those is worthy of anything but handwaving? You think those things are true or you dont.
The remainder is like
>tom is overly helpful
>tom is theatrical/insincere
Which... sure
And then the stuff about being scum with you, being scum with kcc, and pocketing tubba.
I don't hate the Tom case as much as I thought I would given my prior TR of him, so I'm not opposed to lunching him, but I don't think he's our best wagon
Pretty obv I have being wanting to do this for a while. His play is just not as great here as he thinks it is, But to be fair it would have to be amazing. Not really explained their scum reads are now just being defeatist.
I already gave my reason on why I'm not voting Tom today, maybe I'm wrong but his play today I see as town and the way that wagon build feels like a mislynch to me at least.
On Zion really not sure where I stand on him part of me wants him to just doe since I'm sick of the discussion around him this whole game and his play not really selling me on him as town. My main concern though is that my main scum read spend all of the night phase saying there were scum with Grape. I don't see that as bussing tbh. So in my view one of Zion and KCC/Rodemy is scum but not both. So just going with my stronger read.
Barring the obvious with Tom who else are you looking at?
This kinda feels like a placeholder question. I mean, my case and previous points show I'm looking at KCRod, and connections thereof? That hasn't changed.
You need to vote hon, the weekend might not be too doable for us. May I interest you on a nice Tom wagon?
Tom's case and arguments are garbage. They just sound good, but looking into them means nothing. This does not mean they're shallow, they are arguments that sound good and strong...but don't work on the player they are applied to.
Kay.
P.S. I'm sad you didn't engage in verbal fistycuffs with me after the scathing potshot I took at you on #2026.
"This does not mean they're shallow, they are arguments that sound good and strong...but don't work on the player they are applied to."
This is the bit i kept failing to get across to you.
You were looking at <kj meta> as some defined space, while i was looking at it as dual clouds of probability.
KJ is someone ive known for years. Im not sure which of us started first, but we were wolves together in mindscrew for most of 2016...
So yes, i had that defined place before his self improvement kick.
And then he rolled town however many times in a row. 6 or something.
So his town game changed while his scumgame was stagnating. I was *trying to* predict a trajectory with no points in between.
Its not even new for this game. Im sure theres posts about it in games where im town and im scum that neither of us will ever go find. As mentioned, i talk about it in a podcast.
So im (whatever my personal version of) offended by this implication
I resent this. I have given a lot of fresh reads and been very transparent with my thoughts. Tom was already on my watch list. I support the Tom push when you call for it, and this is how you respond. Unbelievable. You act as if I had no opinion until you graced us with your case.
Sloth likes this post. This is the first time you've lost your cool instead of woe-is-me, and though that's not AI, it's real (and I do apologize if I'm being an ass.)
Z, it's been a hell of a week and I'm probably not reading as closely and carefully as I could: I killed most of my energy on that tom case, not to mention, there are several posts between the case and my last post before it I haven't even read yet.
What I'm saying here is that I freely admit I could have missed something. If you can quote me a post of yours where you give a thought that hadn't already been said by someone else in the thread, I will drop this line of thought and apologize.
Are you ******* mirroring me again?
Points for sticking to KCC.
What do you base your Rhand/GJ not v/v world? You propose a scenario where they have to be unaligned.
Dork's "shoot yourself, Flarg" strategy hinged on (1) Flarg doing it toNight; and (2) admitted by Dork as not one that's actually interesting to him, he just said it because he wants Flarg dead. What do you say to this?
(1)So do you want players to vote with you or not? Should I just go play in a sandbox and vote wherever the hell? If you really feel this way you shouldn’t be voting Tom, you should be repeating Day 1 again trying to get me lynched, which you are/were wrong about anyway.
(2)What is v/v? I don’t think I suggested any such thing, at least not intentionally. It’s way too early to operate off those assumptions because the reads aren’t strong. I’m suspicious of both of them.
(3)I don’t really care that ZDS changed his mind. What I do like is that it’s solvey and puts Flarg on a time limit to do something. Either kill himself to prove he’s not scum/sk or actually shoot and kill scum/sk. Because if he’s not hitting good targets he’s a liability anyways.
Per paragraph:
(1) I think you misunderstood what I was saying by mirroring. The comment was not about your vote. Revisit what I said about it on #1023 on copying patterns/styles. I was talking about your wording of "dick move" re: voting Rod, which is something I had just said posts earlier with that exact wording.
In addition, this was actually me making a joke? Because mirroring (again, read #1023) is towards an aggressor, and I have said barely a word to you all Day. On that note, I'm also not voting for you, and this has been briefly discussed. Why do you supposed that is?
(2) v/v is villager/villager. w/w is wolf/wolf, and v/w and w/v are various combinations of the terms.
This is in reference to GJ and Rhand, and your claim that if he flips town you'd look on GJ as scum (hence, they can't be v/v together and there's a w there somewhere.)
You said that Rhand's push on GJ cemented your idea that Rhand was scum, implying that rhand's push was bad. Not getting why rhand flipping town would make his bad case good and that GJ is scum and not just misread town.
(3) ZDS did not change his mind, if you believe his statements. That was his intent all along and he made that clear.
What you're saying is true in regards to a plan for Flarg, but not ZDS' intent.
Sloth's case on tom shows how paranoid Sloth is of tom, much more than it proves tom is scum. The paranoia does appear genuine, so there's that.
I don't think "paranoia" is a correct descriptor for me in any situation.
Admittedly I'm biased on this statement, but I honestly believe it: I am not paranoid, I just believe I'm right.
The only one here that can honestly say I'm paranoid with any actual merit to it is Ter (very outside chance of Vaimes, I guess). @Ter, weigh in?
How do you separate between KCC playing like usual while knowing herself doomed and not letting it transpire, and KCC playing like usual?
Keep in mind I, and others, had already read KCC as scum in D1, and she didn't help matters at eoD.
So this was more about what a scum!KCC would do as a result of such events, than a smoking-gun move that was observed. The rest followed suit.
On D2, KCC didn't have smoking-gun tell, but her actions did not disprove that possible pattern, and I've gone over the intent I saw in them.
Good to start fresh instead of copy pasting from old readslista sometimes:
A. Grapefuit21
A. Tomsloger
A. YWFMLF
B. Gentleman Johnny
B. Killjoy
B. Zionite
C. Lastwhisper
C. Slothful
C. Tubba Fett
D. Jackrito
D. KittyCupCake
D. ZeDorkSlipeur
E. FlargBlarg
E. Rhand
E. Vaimes
sloth: By most reasonable mechanics, was the n1 kill.
Overall very town anyway. I have a few weird issues but im comfortable chalking them up to whatever intrinsic differences between us are causing his read on me.
Jack: this is my buzzwordy townread. Idk brah i like his tone and process and *****.
Tubba: most meta thing in here. And some leftover mindmeld good feels even though we were both wrong on kj. Idk hes just felt on my team the whole game.
~~~~~
Flarg is probably town vig. He doesnt stay this tier forever but for day 2 hes green.
Zds, zion, ywf, and (begrudgingly) gj just a pile of alphabet soup i think is probably town. Not reiterating here
A. Grapefuit21
A. Tomsloger
A. YWFMLF
B. Gentleman Johnny B. Killjoy
B. Zionite
C. Lastwhisper
C. Slothful
C. Tubba Fett
D. Jackrito
D. KittyCupCake
D. ZeDorkSlipeur
E. FlargBlarg
E. Rhand
E. Vaimes
Leaving:
C. Lastwhisper
D. KittyCupCake
E. Rhand
E. Vaimes
Thats largely a gut/comparative sort.
Im reasonably certain on blue
Think theres probably 2 scum in the bottom 3.
Whatevers left in <last + the green alphabet soup>
Sloth, were you confused because you thought I was voting tom while townreading him? I didn't really get what you meant there. Maybe it'll click when I go back and read it agian.
It dawns on me I should have definitely caught up before making any posts so as to not ask questions that others have already asked and/or may have already answered.
Oh well.
Tomsloger (4): Rhand, Slothful, Zionite, Vaimes
Zionite (4): Tubba Fett, Rodemy, ZeDorkSlipeur, Gentleman Johnny
Rodemy (2): Lastwhisper, Tomsloger
Not Voting (3): FlargBlarg, Jackrito, YWFMLF
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is March 15th at 2000 MST.
I think the worst part of sloths case is the middle bit where he tries to predict how towntom would react to kj flipping town and what he expects sounds like noob scum or the shallowest town player ever.
"He said hed look at last and johnny and all he did was... interact with them and try to solve them independently of kj."
So scummy it hurts. And irritating.
See, I was going to give you that opportunity but the more this meltdown proceeds the less I trust that decision. Especially that crappy "for science" vote on me. If you crumble under pressure for votes you don't even have, what are you so nervous about?
It's like your responses are so hand-waving dismissive like powerwolf BSing your way through. The biggest point being it's gotten us nowhere so far and you were talking such a big game with nothing to show for it. At least I would try to break it down; where Sloth makes incorrect assumptions or giant leaps of logic or something. The way you've gone about it so far is exactly what I would expect from a powerwolf strategy.
1 & 2) It's not so tied up like this. The reads on each player are independent, and where they cross was when GJ's pushed on Rhand. Things like that are useful for solving. So these questions already don't seem right because my read is not dependent on Rhand being town/scum. But yeah, if GJ made a bad push I'd definitely reconsider and dive deeper, try to see if it was intentional or if there were signs I missed before. You know, playing the game. I never tried to set up a lynch and if you think anyone is listening to what I have to say anyways, well you're giving me wayy too much credit. Many players are sure I'm scum so I don't know why they'd go for my devious plan to set up a lynch on GJ, who I've been solidly town reading for the majority of the game.
So out of all my town reads, I think the one I'm most unsure about is GJ. Especially with his recent vote. That and his ignoring all the communication tools he has with me is susp.
3) Okay, so why the hard-line stance then if you acknowledge you may be wrong?
4) Alright.
Even harder when you have vacation for most of the game Day.
This push is opportunist AF.
A stalled game this close to deadline is meh. And sadly typical for the last years of mtgs :/
Tom day 2 up to then, straight solving only:
(Interacting, meta dive, and question asking/answering removed along with fluff and ***** talking)
Take from that what you will
But ill answer this with the definition in your head.
Yes thats exactly what i did.
Sloths main premises are:
>toms kj case had no merit
>tom has done nothing
>tom didnt react to being wrong on kj
Which of those is worthy of anything but handwaving? You think those things are true or you dont.
The remainder is like
>tom is overly helpful
>tom is theatrical/insincere
Which... sure
And then the stuff about being scum with you, being scum with kcc, and pocketing tubba.
What is it that im missing here?
I don't hate the Tom case as much as I thought I would given my prior TR of him, so I'm not opposed to lunching him, but I don't think he's our best wagon
Pretty obv I have being wanting to do this for a while. His play is just not as great here as he thinks it is, But to be fair it would have to be amazing. Not really explained their scum reads are now just being defeatist.
I already gave my reason on why I'm not voting Tom today, maybe I'm wrong but his play today I see as town and the way that wagon build feels like a mislynch to me at least.
On Zion really not sure where I stand on him part of me wants him to just doe since I'm sick of the discussion around him this whole game and his play not really selling me on him as town. My main concern though is that my main scum read spend all of the night phase saying there were scum with Grape. I don't see that as bussing tbh. So in my view one of Zion and KCC/Rodemy is scum but not both. So just going with my stronger read.
Vote : Rodemy
Zion (4): Tubba, Rod, ZDS, Gj
Rod (4): Last, Tom, flarg, jack
Not Voting (1): YWF
Vote Rodemy
Should be obvious why. Been my strongest scum read since the beginning and Rodemy has not at all changed my mind.
Id rather just live to solve the game but would much rather be shot than lynched on principle
Guys, if you live in the US, stock up as much as possible this week. Just trust me.
This kinda feels like a placeholder question. I mean, my case and previous points show I'm looking at KCRod, and connections thereof? That hasn't changed.
You need to vote hon, the weekend might not be too doable for us. May I interest you on a nice Tom wagon?
P.S. I'm sad you didn't engage in verbal fistycuffs with me after the scathing potshot I took at you on #2026.
Sloths only existed to propagate avocados. They are a superfluous species now that we cultivate them.
And your beard is patchy
Oh snap
This is the bit i kept failing to get across to you.
You were looking at <kj meta> as some defined space, while i was looking at it as dual clouds of probability.
KJ is someone ive known for years. Im not sure which of us started first, but we were wolves together in mindscrew for most of 2016...
So yes, i had that defined place before his self improvement kick.
And then he rolled town however many times in a row. 6 or something.
So his town game changed while his scumgame was stagnating. I was *trying to* predict a trajectory with no points in between.
Its not even new for this game. Im sure theres posts about it in games where im town and im scum that neither of us will ever go find. As mentioned, i talk about it in a podcast.
So im (whatever my personal version of) offended by this implication
Like I said....the Tom wagon has merit....I'm more confident in my own reads. May suggest a Rod wagon instead and we can revisit Tom on the morrow?
Vote Rodemy
unvote
Don't want hammer until people have said their piece
Z, it's been a hell of a week and I'm probably not reading as closely and carefully as I could: I killed most of my energy on that tom case, not to mention, there are several posts between the case and my last post before it I haven't even read yet.
What I'm saying here is that I freely admit I could have missed something. If you can quote me a post of yours where you give a thought that hadn't already been said by someone else in the thread, I will drop this line of thought and apologize. Per paragraph:
(1) I think you misunderstood what I was saying by mirroring. The comment was not about your vote. Revisit what I said about it on #1023 on copying patterns/styles. I was talking about your wording of "dick move" re: voting Rod, which is something I had just said posts earlier with that exact wording.
In addition, this was actually me making a joke? Because mirroring (again, read #1023) is towards an aggressor, and I have said barely a word to you all Day.
On that note, I'm also not voting for you, and this has been briefly discussed. Why do you supposed that is?
(2) v/v is villager/villager. w/w is wolf/wolf, and v/w and w/v are various combinations of the terms.
This is in reference to GJ and Rhand, and your claim that if he flips town you'd look on GJ as scum (hence, they can't be v/v together and there's a w there somewhere.)
You said that Rhand's push on GJ cemented your idea that Rhand was scum, implying that rhand's push was bad. Not getting why rhand flipping town would make his bad case good and that GJ is scum and not just misread town.
(3) ZDS did not change his mind, if you believe his statements. That was his intent all along and he made that clear.
What you're saying is true in regards to a plan for Flarg, but not ZDS' intent.
I will return. This is not over.
Its part 1.
Part 1 is right
Dont townread me (or scumread me) for any of that *****
Admittedly I'm biased on this statement, but I honestly believe it: I am not paranoid, I just believe I'm right.
The only one here that can honestly say I'm paranoid with any actual merit to it is Ter (very outside chance of Vaimes, I guess).
@Ter, weigh in?
Keep in mind I, and others, had already read KCC as scum in D1, and she didn't help matters at eoD.
So this was more about what a scum!KCC would do as a result of such events, than a smoking-gun move that was observed. The rest followed suit.
On D2, KCC didn't have smoking-gun tell, but her actions did not disprove that possible pattern, and I've gone over the intent I saw in them.
Dude, I'm like dead on my feet, and was when I wrote that original post, so just tell me.
I love all those @Z questions at the start. Like, a lot.
b) I'd also say Sloth is not typically a person who gets paranoid.
I am. But no not him
A. Grapefuit21
A. Tomsloger
A. YWFMLF
B. Gentleman Johnny
B. Killjoy
B. Zionite
C. Lastwhisper
C. Slothful
C. Tubba Fett
D. Jackrito
D. KittyCupCake
D. ZeDorkSlipeur
E. FlargBlarg
E. Rhand
E. Vaimes
Overall very town anyway. I have a few weird issues but im comfortable chalking them up to whatever intrinsic differences between us are causing his read on me.
Jack: this is my buzzwordy townread. Idk brah i like his tone and process and *****.
Tubba: most meta thing in here. And some leftover mindmeld good feels even though we were both wrong on kj. Idk hes just felt on my team the whole game.
~~~~~
Flarg is probably town vig. He doesnt stay this tier forever but for day 2 hes green.
Zds, zion, ywf, and (begrudgingly) gj just a pile of alphabet soup i think is probably town. Not reiterating here
A. Grapefuit21A. Tomsloger
A. YWFMLF
B. Gentleman Johnny
B. KilljoyB. Zionite
C. Lastwhisper
C. Slothful
C. Tubba Fett
D. Jackrito
D. KittyCupCake
D. ZeDorkSlipeur
E. FlargBlarg
E. Rhand
E. Vaimes
Leaving:
C. Lastwhisper
D. KittyCupCake
E. Rhand
E. Vaimes
Thats largely a gut/comparative sort.
Im reasonably certain on blue
Think theres probably 2 scum in the bottom 3.
Whatevers left in <last + the green alphabet soup>
zds/ywf/zion/flarg/gj
Last
vaimes
Rhand
rod
Idk can you run for president?
34
Boomer
You have the pallid complexion and dead eyes of a younger millenial
I'll try to catch up in the morning.
Sloth is agelessly goofy lookin
Oh well.
Oh you ******* ****.