@fulcrum: I don't know the case against dk. He claimed BG that perm BGs someone as long as he wants (but on;y can target one person at a time) which I'm not super interested in lynching D1 especially without a decent scumread on the slot.
KCC I'm not a fan of her reaction to Nacho's fake cc. It was glib and nonchalant and weird for town to do. I'm slightly torn on it, but it's the best read I have.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Look, I need summaries of the cases for and against KCC, dk and no lynch right now.
Well, the case for "No Lynch" is: there isn't a good consensus choice. Some of us (me, DK?) have abilities that work (better) in Summer and if we lynch someone it's going to flip back to Spring.
I also do feel like a rush job at the end is overall less informative to look back at later just because Town people are voting just to get a lynch and that muddies the waters. I am biased though, I know.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
i mean shes my second strongest scumread just zero to do with mechanics
No one except you is reading into her role in any way afaict and youre gonna need to explain why "*****ty rolecop" is a role scum cant have
KCC is definitely reading into her various counter claims lol
Where is this?
I have like 10 minutes tops, you guys, someone help me. @Killjoy @Tom why KCC? @Nacho, @Keldeo why dkings?
you sort of asked about roles and acted weird about kccs claim but it doesnt seem like it should be weird at all with your claimed role so explain it pls like i already asked
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Look, I need summaries of the cases for and against KCC, dk and no lynch right now.
KCC: has been widely wolf read but Nacho, the primary driver and counterclaimer of, retracted his counter claim and thinks she's a villager now for pure posting on threat of death (I agree)
DK: has been overall meh and looks awful on vote counts but claimed Summer Bodyguard~ish and I don't think we should lunch the bodyguard
No Lunch: We're out of time and if we lunch we go straight back to Spring, losing summer abilities like Axel's Watch and KCC's Busdriver (if she's alive) and DK can't choose his permanent bodyguard target (if he's alive)
If we no-lynched and scum no-killed, would we be in that exact same position we are now? Because it sounds like we would.
We can direct DK's bodyguard onto one person we want in late, late game, and if they ever die, immediately kill him. If he's town, mafia are forced to shoot him, if he's scum, mafia are forced to keep that person alive forever.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Unless there's a very, very good reason for no lynch, Tom is right, we need to lynch.
Believe me I understand the sentiment.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Look, I need summaries of the cases for and against KCC, dk and no lynch right now.
KCC: has been widely wolf read but Nacho, the primary driver and counterclaimer of, retracted his counter claim and thinks she's a villager now for pure posting on threat of death (I agree)
DK: has been overall meh and looks awful on vote counts but claimed Summer Bodyguard~ish and I don't think we should lunch the bodyguard
No Lunch: We're out of time and if we lunch we go straight back to Spring, losing summer abilities like Axel's Watch and KCC's Busdriver (if she's alive) and DK can't choose his permanent bodyguard target (if he's alive)
If we no-lynched and scum no-killed, would we be in that exact same position we are now? Because it sounds like we would.
We can direct DK's bodyguard onto one person we want in late, late game, and if they ever die, immediately kill him. If he's town, mafia are forced to shoot him, if he's scum, mafia are forced to keep that person alive forever.
Scum nokilling this early never really serves them though.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
The lynch threshold has been corrected because I'm bad at math. I have extended day by 15 minutes.
Best mod post imo
If we have to lunch we lose the least by lunching DK, I guess, bodyguard isn't that strong of a role if he's town and he ~could be~ lying
Pretty sure all current wagons flip town though
I actually disagree with this. His role, as claimed, is pretty decent.
True, but he needs a summer Night to activate it.
Anyhow, with Nacho on that wagon, I think DK will flip town anyways.
I’m townreading KCC too :/
And I do want a lynch.
why do we always end up deadline lynching like this?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
i mean shes my second strongest scumread just zero to do with mechanics
No one except you is reading into her role in any way afaict and youre gonna need to explain why "*****ty rolecop" is a role scum cant have
KCC is definitely reading into her various counter claims lol
Where is this?
I have like 10 minutes tops, you guys, someone help me. @Killjoy @Tom why KCC? @Nacho, @Keldeo why dkings?
you sort of asked about roles and acted weird about kccs claim but it doesnt seem like it should be weird at all with your claimed role so explain it pls like i already asked
Didn't see the ask.
There are some small things about my role I haven't shared, and will not share yet. Parts of KCC's role were similar. The mafia/town mirror thing was about whether there would be a scum roleblocker thing and town roleblock/jailer, and was actually a theory that supports KCC. Also, my role is kind of rolecoppy, and I was wondering if there would maybe be a town rolecop thing and a scum roleblock thing, but it seemed unlikely.
i mean shes my second strongest scumread just zero to do with mechanics
No one except you is reading into her role in any way afaict and youre gonna need to explain why "*****ty rolecop" is a role scum cant have
KCC is definitely reading into her various counter claims lol
Where is this?
I have like 10 minutes tops, you guys, someone help me. @Killjoy @Tom why KCC? @Nacho, @Keldeo why dkings?
you sort of asked about roles and acted weird about kccs claim but it doesnt seem like it should be weird at all with your claimed role so explain it pls like i already asked
Didn't see the ask.
There are some small things about my role I haven't shared, and will not share yet. Parts of KCC's role were similar. The mafia/town mirror thing was about whether there would be a scum roleblocker thing and town roleblock/jailer, and was actually a theory that supports KCC. Also, my role is kind of rolecoppy, and I was wondering if there would maybe be a town rolecop thing and a scum roleblock thing, but it seemed unlikely.
Also, Rhand pushed me for a CC, and I wanted him to cut that ***** out without giving information away, so I made my response super vague.
If we no-lynched and scum no-killed, would we be in that exact same position we are now? Because it sounds like we would.
Um, scum is never ever doing that though. Plus, it's not actually accurate because we would have the Night Action info. Which might or might not be relevant.
We can direct DK's bodyguard onto one person we want in late, late game, and if they ever die, immediately kill him. If he's town, mafia are forced to shoot him, if he's scum, mafia are forced to keep that person alive forever.
The only thing I don't like about DK's claim is that, it's like a worse Bodyguard claim, and Bodyguard already isn't a strong role. He only gets to choose a target if we happen to end a night in Summer, and that's it?
It could be true, but it's bad.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
dk continues to be the only lynch i'm willing to go atm and even then that's a reluctant one. i think kcc was very pure after the cc so really don't want to go there.
There are some small things about my role I haven't shared, and will not share yet. Parts of KCC's role were similar. The mafia/town mirror thing was about whether there would be a scum roleblocker thing and town roleblock/jailer, and was actually a theory that supports KCC. Also, my role is kind of rolecoppy, and I was wondering if there would maybe be a town rolecop thing and a scum roleblock thing, but it seemed unlikely.
Well, yuck.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
If we no-lynched and scum no-killed, would we be in that exact same position we are now? Because it sounds like we would.
Um, scum is never ever doing that though. Plus, it's not actually accurate because we would have the Night Action info. Which might or might not be relevant.
We can direct DK's bodyguard onto one person we want in late, late game, and if they ever die, immediately kill him. If he's town, mafia are forced to shoot him, if he's scum, mafia are forced to keep that person alive forever.
The only thing I don't like about DK's claim is that, it's like a worse Bodyguard claim, and Bodyguard already isn't a strong role. He only gets to choose a target if we happen to end a night in Summer, and that's it?
It could be true, but it's bad.
Sorry, not what I meant. If we'd be in the same spot if scum no-killed, that means we're probably going to be in a worse spot when they kill.
Basically every role claimed has been p bad, except yours, man.
If we no-lynched and scum no-killed, would we be in that exact same position we are now? Because it sounds like we would.
Um, scum is never ever doing that though. Plus, it's not actually accurate because we would have the Night Action info. Which might or might not be relevant.
We can direct DK's bodyguard onto one person we want in late, late game, and if they ever die, immediately kill him. If he's town, mafia are forced to shoot him, if he's scum, mafia are forced to keep that person alive forever.
The only thing I don't like about DK's claim is that, it's like a worse Bodyguard claim, and Bodyguard already isn't a strong role. He only gets to choose a target if we happen to end a night in Summer, and that's it?
It could be true, but it's bad.
But then think about it. If he's not blocked in Summer, it stays there. He won't be able to be blocked until he would retarget. So it CAN be better,
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
if there is a time for us to no lynch, it is right now when we are on evens. if scum no kill, we are back in the same place except DK has a target he protects forever and always which is still a net win and we have time to pick an actual lynch which i feel is another win. scum have the opportunity to push through even worse than usual lynches with the tight deadline but we have a flip and we will get information with a no lynch that we won't with a lynch sooo.
Basically every role claimed has been p bad, except yours, man.
And mine is only actually good ~25% of the time. Which is admittedly part of why I'm loathe to let this time get away.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
If we no-lynched and scum no-killed, would we be in that exact same position we are now? Because it sounds like we would.
Um, scum is never ever doing that though. Plus, it's not actually accurate because we would have the Night Action info. Which might or might not be relevant.
We can direct DK's bodyguard onto one person we want in late, late game, and if they ever die, immediately kill him. If he's town, mafia are forced to shoot him, if he's scum, mafia are forced to keep that person alive forever.
The only thing I don't like about DK's claim is that, it's like a worse Bodyguard claim, and Bodyguard already isn't a strong role. He only gets to choose a target if we happen to end a night in Summer, and that's it?
It could be true, but it's bad.
were interpreting his claim super differently?
He said he got to choose when it becomes summer and i assume it then sticks as a target until next summer when he can change it
If thats correct its about equal to a regular bg with downside cant change target as often but upside can stop a daykill
If we no-lynched and scum no-killed, would we be in that exact same position we are now? Because it sounds like we would.
Um, scum is never ever doing that though. Plus, it's not actually accurate because we would have the Night Action info. Which might or might not be relevant.
We can direct DK's bodyguard onto one person we want in late, late game, and if they ever die, immediately kill him. If he's town, mafia are forced to shoot him, if he's scum, mafia are forced to keep that person alive forever.
The only thing I don't like about DK's claim is that, it's like a worse Bodyguard claim, and Bodyguard already isn't a strong role. He only gets to choose a target if we happen to end a night in Summer, and that's it?
It could be true, but it's bad.
But then think about it. If he's not blocked in Summer, it stays there. He won't be able to be blocked until he would retarget. So it CAN be better,
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
if there is a time for us to no lynch, it is right now when we are on evens. if scum no kill, we are back in the same place except DK has a target he protects forever and always which is still a net win and we have time to pick an actual lynch which i feel is another win. scum have the opportunity to push through even worse than usual lynches with the tight deadline but we have a flip and we will get information with a no lynch that we won't with a lynch sooo.
I'm at a place where I'd prefer a lynch, but I'll take the nolynch in these circumstances over someone I'm pretty sure will flip town
If dk had claimed Mab or Maeve as town queen, that's a for sure scum role, but Titania is pretty seelie, so I am gonna let myself get fooled by flavor.
No I get how DK's role works. But I mean it doesn't even turn on unless we end a day in Summer, and then he picks one time and that just stays and he can't change it later until another Summer. It's definitely worse. And when I say BG isn't a strong role anyway, I mean it's always at best trading yourself for someone else. We are still down the same numbers.
Don't really need to talk about theory here though.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
We're only putting DK on anything if we don't lunch
After the lunch it will be spring and he can't target anything (assuming his claim is true)
Ok, but that's suspicious, I feel like scum!dk would know that we'd have to no lynch to test his claim. If we no lynch, Axel has the watch right? We can have him watch dk to see that the bodyguard actually happens.
God ******* dammit i dont understand how anyone could look at this game and not see scum would want a no lynch here
Why would any town want to go along with that?
KCC I'm not a fan of her reaction to Nacho's fake cc. It was glib and nonchalant and weird for town to do. I'm slightly torn on it, but it's the best read I have.
Asta also has two votes
If we have to lunch we lose the least by lunching DK, I guess, bodyguard isn't that strong of a role if he's town and he ~could be~ lying
Pretty sure all current wagons flip town though
With 16 Alive it takes 9 to Lynch
The Current Season is Summer
I also do feel like a rush job at the end is overall less informative to look back at later just because Town people are voting just to get a lynch and that muddies the waters. I am biased though, I know.
If we no-lynched and scum no-killed, would we be in that exact same position we are now? Because it sounds like we would.
We can direct DK's bodyguard onto one person we want in late, late game, and if they ever die, immediately kill him. If he's town, mafia are forced to shoot him, if he's scum, mafia are forced to keep that person alive forever.
Asta: Do you actually have two votes?
Since dk has claimed Titania, I'm less suspect there.
unvote dkings
vote KCC
Let's get a lynch yall
You're wolf reading her despite her role because you think it might be fake
I dunno what to tell you but that's what I was talking about
True, but he needs a summer Night to activate it.
Anyhow, with Nacho on that wagon, I think DK will flip town anyways.
I’m townreading KCC too :/
And I do want a lynch.
why do we always end up deadline lynching like this?
Can you not put both votes on the same player though? That would help.
Didn't see the ask.
There are some small things about my role I haven't shared, and will not share yet. Parts of KCC's role were similar. The mafia/town mirror thing was about whether there would be a scum roleblocker thing and town roleblock/jailer, and was actually a theory that supports KCC. Also, my role is kind of rolecoppy, and I was wondering if there would maybe be a town rolecop thing and a scum roleblock thing, but it seemed unlikely.
Also, Rhand pushed me for a CC, and I wanted him to cut that ***** out without giving information away, so I made my response super vague.
The only thing I don't like about DK's claim is that, it's like a worse Bodyguard claim, and Bodyguard already isn't a strong role. He only gets to choose a target if we happen to end a night in Summer, and that's it?
It could be true, but it's bad.
With 16 Alive it takes 9 to Lynch
The Current Season is Summer
I literally do not care about her claim
KCC... maybe. But thats still clearly about fontis process not the role itself?
Idk we're getting bogged down
Vote kcc
Sorry, not what I meant. If we'd be in the same spot if scum no-killed, that means we're probably going to be in a worse spot when they kill.
Basically every role claimed has been p bad, except yours, man.
Assuming that's how that works.
I don’t think the existence of a king means the “summer queen” has to be town?
I’m not sure, I guess we could leash him onto Vezok or... maybe onto like Axel
I vibe with what KJ said about KCC’s original reaction to Nacho. But I also liked her later posts.
unvote
He said he got to choose when it becomes summer and i assume it then sticks as a target until next summer when he can change it
If thats correct its about equal to a regular bg with downside cant change target as often but upside can stop a daykill
that was my assumption as well.
I guess
No lunch is more powerful in F4 usually but I don't think it's mechanically incorrect here (unless there's a town vig or something maybe)
After the lunch it will be spring and he can't target anything (assuming his claim is true)
I'm at a place where I'd prefer a lynch, but I'll take the nolynch in these circumstances over someone I'm pretty sure will flip town
I'm sorry, I need to go.
Don't really need to talk about theory here though.
Ok, but that's suspicious, I feel like scum!dk would know that we'd have to no lynch to test his claim. If we no lynch, Axel has the watch right? We can have him watch dk to see that the bodyguard actually happens.
Why would any town want to go along with that?