Anyway, continuing on in my quest to catalog all the people who tried to CFD me. The next voter was Keldeo at #1666. (Technically, the next was Gemma at #1665). He's basically barning Killjoy here in saying he agrees I have been pushing on things that look bad as opposed to things that actually are bad. He hedges a bit.
This may be the first vote that could easily have come from a scum hopping on. There was all the momentum at the time, with LW and Gemma having both voted me in the last 15 posts. But that is mostly a timing/position observation, as opposed to a "that vote was actively scummy-looking".
The question then, as always, is, was there any prior foundation for this, or did it just come out of nowhere and was only justified at that opportune moment?
Keldeo does not appear to have had anything to say about me for the first 1000+ post of the game. All his quick impressions and hot takes are on other people. His first vote went to Vaimes. Apparently, this scum read on Vaimes does have something to do with Vaimes' read on me? At least, Keldeo questions Vaimes about his thought process re: my approach to Nacho. But then later Keldeo seems to say this wasn't the actual reason and he was just trying to pressure Vaimes to get a read on him.
By the time Keldeo is fully caught up, as of post #1421, it appears I am a solid nothing to him. He has a few Town reads, and that's about it.
He does ask me a few questions after, mainly focused on my views on KCC. I do not get a sense from these that he developed any kind of read on me as a result on these.
Then he posts #1495 where he states that I am "a bit of a blind spot" for him. He's asking other players for their opinions, and also me to clarify my feeling about DK. The post is...fine? I'm generally not a fan when people make posts essentially asking other people to give them a read on someone. Which is not quite the same thing as just asking someone directly for an opinion on a player. It's a bit...flail-y? Like, he's lamenting that he can't get a handle on me and asking for help?
Maybe that's okay? But seems like something a scum could do also.
He's been supportive of KCC, but insta-votes her after Nacho's thing. Says he trusts Nacho more even though he doesn't really want to lynch KCC. Again, this seem...okay? Like, I can't fault it on the surface. It's just also something that scum could easily do. He seems very cautious, however, to the point of very quickly unvoting KCC and asking no one hammer her before he gets back - even though she was not actually close to being hammered at the time. She was at something like L-4, and now she's at L-5.
And then after Nacho retracts his counter-claim, Keldeo lands on me. So, that's not great.
There's an interesting hesitation for Keldeo after I make my claim. Here. He asks the thread "Why are people still voting the claimed Watcher" while still voting for me himself. He says he's "keeping the vote on" because he doesn't understand why people are voting for No Lynch. Which seems kind of a non-sequitur.
Then does Unvote in #1901, and says he could go with the No Lynch option as well. He's kind of all over the place on me. He asks "Are people confident that Axel is Town," like he still has suspicions, but also says "if this were my homesite I would probably clear both Axel and Fulcrum off those abilities but it isn't."
He's waffley at the deadline. Votes for DK, without seeming enthused about it and unvotes. And goes back to KCC and unvotes. And ultimately ends on No Vote. I personally find the waffling and indecision town-like. I also tend to think that scum would have preferred to lynch a Town in that spot rather than settle for a No Lynch, which might be an okay look. I know Tom strongly disagrees on this point and feels that scum would have supported the No Lynch, so maybe this isn't as good a look as I feel like, but it's certainly where I was, so I can empathize. If KCC is scum, it's much less of a good look.
Keldeo's got no big Red Flags that I see yet, but his positioning on my wagon, and his lack of opinion on me prior to it puts him squarely in the sweet spot for an opportunistic scum. Most of his posts seem reasonable, but nothing that screams "Town" to me and nothing I think I good scum couldn't fake. The best part, for me, was the very end of the day, where he seemed genuinely uncertain about what to do.
So I have to leave him as a definite maybe in the scum-on-my-wagon story, but as I say, nothing smoking here.
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I obvis can't direct anything manually, but I really don't think Vaimes is a good shot to take. He's felt solidly solo this whole game, no interactions that feel even remotely partner-y to me.
I'm still weirdly suspicious of Vezok. Probably just bad instincts, but the King vote happened in what? Four days? The pile on to vote for Vezok quickly feels like at least some scum probably hopped on there. I understand handing the gun off to someone else to make the final call is psychologically easier than casting a lynch vote directly yourself, but like............. we couldn't get a solid shot together in three weeks. Good lord.
I initially thought Axel analyzing people who voted him weird and more defensive than proactive, but uh. I dunno, that Keldeo thing is a shiny looking fruit to me. I dunno what it is, but some of Keldeo's plays feel kind of similar to the mafia game we were just in where he was scum. Could just be paranoia, but it's not nothing IMO.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
also again, Vezok's partner should claim, this really isn't about the possibility of him being a wolf as of yet, I don't really believe that, but confirmation of his partner removes someone from the PoE
@Asta
also here's a tip, you have 28 posts, which doesn't make you scum, but you aren't even a town lean for most based on volume or even based on your analytics, its mostly just tonal vibes
it's super easy to just pretend to be fake, and you are going against the grain for what?
I forgot to say what I was gunna say: "we couldn't get a solid shot together in three weeks. Good lord."
don't shade, posts like that just come off as wolfy
Asta can still easily be scum,
I literally just played with a wolf who pretended to be dumb
and him just shading effort is like, a big **** you to the thread
I change my mind easily re: votes if I have no strong scumreads. If thread flow wanted to lunch someone and I was here to change my vote, I would have. It seems like some think I was dead-ser on a No Lunch and wouldn’t have budged, I don’t know where that assumption is coming from.
do you think its an unfair assumption? You left your vote on "no lynch"
I also kinda think mechanics are getting in the way of me being able to have like. Normal reads I feel good about. Super bleh.
how many of your reads are mechanical?
I count 5 completely unclaimed, and 6 whos claims/roles dont effect my read in any meaningful way.
Like... sure vezok/dkings/kcc/asta. Who else?
No Lynch(5) -Vaimes, Silvercrys, KittyCupCake, Lastwhisper, Axelrod
And you're speculating that the wolves are split between these two wagons, essentially? They'd have to all be voting either dkings or Axel here, right, unless Proph is a wolf, but even then the others are.
But wolves on dkings are like... Vaimes = Last > Nacho > KCC or something?
And on Axel it's like, Rhand = Keldeo > fulcrum?
I need a PC to do votals, not trying to do spreadsheets on mobile lmao
im nit saying much more than "wolves are on this votal"
But i do currently think axel is town and dkings has a solid chance to be. Wish i had some colors to fill in my dude
Well, silly seems wrong. You can disagree, but really only if you're strongly scum-reading him. Otherwise Mason is kind of exactly what you would want in this spot.
I want someone I trust as town + someone whose reads I trust. Do I trust vezok's process as town? No.
Vezok literally offered to lynch whoever the majority chose. I don't really think her process matters here.
Nacho, iirc you said you thought KCC's busdriving was only during the summer, but once you realized she got it once it became summer and could use them anytime even if we lynched, did that change your thoughts on the mechanical benefit from not lynching? It didn't seem to to me.
that was dkings, who nacho then voted
Actually I think Keldeo is right here. KCC did say that she could use the bus drives any time once they were unlocked. I would have to go back and check, but I think Nacho was one of the people who misunderstood how my ability works.
I'm still weirdly suspicious of Vezok. Probably just bad instincts, but the King vote happened in what? Four days? The pile on to vote for Vezok quickly feels like at least some scum probably hopped on there. I understand handing the gun off to someone else to make the final call is psychologically easier than casting a lynch vote directly yourself, but like............. we couldn't get a solid shot together in three weeks. Good lord.
I initially thought Axel analyzing people who voted him weird and more defensive than proactive, but uh. I dunno, that Keldeo thing is a shiny looking fruit to me. I dunno what it is, but some of Keldeo's plays feel kind of similar to the mafia game we were just in where he was scum. Could just be paranoia, but it's not nothing IMO.
Talk more about this, please.
Also, aside: It's absolutely hilarious that I breadcrumbed to you!
On the one hand trying to get a masonizer and clear himself is very on brand
On the other I'm not super sure he wasn't trying to shut the Mason chat down and when it didn't work he tried to buy towncred by claiming, and if he actually thinks his role is bad he should've been fine getting bad abilities in exchange for making town reads bulletproof?
I dunno he's talked about it a bunch I'm just not quite getting there I guess
im firmly at NAI for target choice after some thought.
If hes town, he could have used it better but like you say... this was silly but on brand
If hes scum, im not sure it matters what he thought would happen he just targeted vez for some kind of town cred. Whether he thought hed get a neighborhood or just thought he'd get positive vibes from a mason or even <the abilities are fake so he was hoping he wouldnt have to actually trade yet>
Think it was probably a below average target as town and ~average if hes a wolf.
Certainly squarely in both ranges
Town reads: 0-1 scum
fulcrum
Asta
vezokpiraka
tomsloger
Nachomamma8
Vaimes
Light town reads: 0-2 scum
Killjoy
Silvercrys3467
Lastwhisper
Grapefruit21*
Role brigade: 1-2 scum
dkingsland967
Prophylaxis
Axelrod
KittyCupCake
Leaves: 1-2 scum
Rhand
Keldeo
I think Vaimes' usage and attitude around his role are town, done looking there. Tom's clearly trying to solve, Nacho as well. Asta's newbtown. Vezok is a mason.
Silver, Lastwhisper and Killjoy are all pushing against the grain, probably town.
Game feels p easy. Kill Rhand and Keldeo, probably hit scum, go from there.
On the one hand trying to get a masonizer and clear himself is very on brand
On the other I'm not super sure he wasn't trying to shut the Mason chat down and when it didn't work he tried to buy towncred by claiming, and if he actually thinks his role is bad he should've been fine getting bad abilities in exchange for making town reads bulletproof?
I dunno he's talked about it a bunch I'm just not quite getting there I guess
im firmly at NAI for target choice after some thought.
If hes town, he could have used it better but like you say... this was silly but on brand
If hes scum, im not sure it matters what he thought would happen he just targeted vez for some kind of town cred. Whether he thought hed get a neighborhood or just thought he'd get positive vibes from a mason or even <the abilities are fake so he was hoping he wouldnt have to actually trade yet>
Think it was probably a below average target as town and ~average if hes a wolf.
Certainly squarely in both ranges
I believe him when he says he thought he might get a masonizer ability from Vezok. If he was scum, he would have been scared of the ability then not working with Vezok knowing he has it, thus outing him.
@Vaimes see this entire claim feels like a scum role to me. If I were town I'd be very curious as to what the other person knew about the offer and would have asked multiple questions about it. In my eyes it's a soft disruption role that can appear townie similar to something like my swab the deck ability from Pirates. If the person isn't notified that the merchant gets the role it looks even scummier to me. Also is your role completely unrelated to the Blue Orb Vez was talking about?
It really isn't. The person is not obligated to buy an item, and it doesn't disrupt them because I pick my target at Night, and (as far as I know) they have the whole Day phase to decide on an ability to exchange.
If you want the details of what my target knows about the transaction, whether or not they know I get the item, you should be asking vezok.
I choose my target anytime before Night ends, and in the case of a trade I’m assuming I wouldn’t get the ability until the end of the following Day. I kinda got locked into acquiring a Mason ability.
KCC, I wanted to know your role. But your claim turned me off, so I switched to vezok and left it there. I considered other people but didn’t choose anyone else.
Ok, I am really confused. You said you select your target at night, but then you said you switched your target to vezok because you thought KCC "might" be lynched and her claim turned you off?
I can’t get “any number of abilities.” Three items, three trades, the end.
I suppose I could go back and double-check this, but you have a LOT of posts. I thought you said you could only get an ability from someone else one time?
Real talk, if you need a lunch, my role is super shruggy. Was planning as playing as vanilla if a redacted thing didn’t work out.
What does this mean?
Is the [redacted] thing your secret plan to become a Mason? Why would you classify this role as shruggy anyway? You have at least two real things to trade (track + vest). And if someone takes you up on it, you could get literally any number of abilities in return. Even if that was all you had, that's not "super shruggy" to me.
The attitude here is weird.
these are good questions though
As claimed its a pretty cool role and i can imagine myself, like,
Oh ***** actually
Make kcc trade her roleblock for something, so vaimes would get tonfind out if shes truthful about a roleblock that doesnt hit a nightkill?
That might not work in some way im missing i just thought of it but you get the idea wheeling and dealing, using it as a rolecop of sorts, giving gifts and getting roles back it all seems pretty fun to me?
Silver, Lastwhisper and Killjoy are all pushing against the grain, probably town.
lmao there is no grain for me, I push who I believe is a wolf regardless of what anyone else thinks
I obvis can't direct anything manually, but I really don't think Vaimes is a good shot to take. He's felt solidly solo this whole game, no interactions that feel even remotely partner-y to me.
I'm still weirdly suspicious of Vezok. Probably just bad instincts, but the King vote happened in what? Four days? The pile on to vote for Vezok quickly feels like at least some scum probably hopped on there. I understand handing the gun off to someone else to make the final call is psychologically easier than casting a lynch vote directly yourself, but like............. we couldn't get a solid shot together in three weeks. Good lord.
i think this is the strongest sign of the asta from his first game (aka noob town asta) ive seen so far.
He doesnt quite understand why we treat a mason claim this way. Not that he doesnt understand the role but doesnt understand the implications of fake claiming it basically.
It probably colors my interpretation that i also dont feel super great about vez beyond claim. But i do think this is towny from asta
I obvis can't direct anything manually, but I really don't think Vaimes is a good shot to take. He's felt solidly solo this whole game, no interactions that feel even remotely partner-y to me.
I'm still weirdly suspicious of Vezok. Probably just bad instincts, but the King vote happened in what? Four days? The pile on to vote for Vezok quickly feels like at least some scum probably hopped on there. I understand handing the gun off to someone else to make the final call is psychologically easier than casting a lynch vote directly yourself, but like............. we couldn't get a solid shot together in three weeks. Good lord.
i think this is the strongest sign of the asta from his first game (aka noob town asta) ive seen so far.
He doesnt quite understand why we treat a mason claim this way. Not that he doesnt understand the role but doesnt understand the implications of fake claiming it basically.
It probably colors my interpretation that i also dont feel super great about vez beyond claim. But i do think this is towny from asta
Nacho, iirc you said you thought KCC's busdriving was only during the summer, but once you realized she got it once it became summer and could use them anytime even if we lynched, did that change your thoughts on the mechanical benefit from not lynching? It didn't seem to to me.
that was dkings, who nacho then voted
Actually I think Keldeo is right here. KCC did say that she could use the bus drives any time once they were unlocked. I would have to go back and check, but I think Nacho was one of the people who misunderstood how my ability works.
you were the one people were talking about specifically needing a night to activate when thats not what you claimed, and im the one that claimed having a similar trigger to correct people going for the dumb no lynch
On the one hand trying to get a masonizer and clear himself is very on brand
On the other I'm not super sure he wasn't trying to shut the Mason chat down and when it didn't work he tried to buy towncred by claiming, and if he actually thinks his role is bad he should've been fine getting bad abilities in exchange for making town reads bulletproof?
I dunno he's talked about it a bunch I'm just not quite getting there I guess
im firmly at NAI for target choice after some thought.
If hes town, he could have used it better but like you say... this was silly but on brand
If hes scum, im not sure it matters what he thought would happen he just targeted vez for some kind of town cred. Whether he thought hed get a neighborhood or just thought he'd get positive vibes from a mason or even <the abilities are fake so he was hoping he wouldnt have to actually trade yet>
Think it was probably a below average target as town and ~average if hes a wolf.
Certainly squarely in both ranges
I believe him when he says he thought he might get a masonizer ability from Vezok. If he was scum, he would have been scared of the ability then not working with Vezok knowing he has it, thus outing him.
except if he got something that outed him somehow he could just not claim?
And i think the chances of that happening anyway are pretty remote. Like, if i think of every way for a mason role to be worded... most have no interaction with vaimes role, some might give him a new neighborhood or access to the one that already exists, and only fringe cases would backfire at all.
Make kcc trade her roleblock for something, so vaimes would get tonfind out if shes truthful about a roleblock that doesnt hit a nightkill?
That might not work in some way im missing i just thought of it but you get the idea wheeling and dealing, using it as a rolecop of sorts, giving gifts and getting roles back it all seems pretty fun to me?
again, the towny choice from vaimes is something in this neighborhood.
Kcc or fonti both excellent targets because of their claims and place in the game imo.
I feel like dkings would be pretty great too? Like id feel pretty good about him if having (in this case, had) a bodyguard was confirmed.
So no, im not into giving vaimes any towncred for targeting vezok. Ill agree its something he would do as town. But its def something he could do as scum too
if we just ignore everything mechanical revolving around Vaimes, he does not look good?
Assuming his ability would work on Vezok, just seems so wild from either a wolf or a town perspective
claiming he did it for town cred can come from a wolf or town
but like ignore all that, and his posts aren't that great
if you have him has obvious town, or anywhere near, with or with the mechanical information
then
1. He is town and you know he is town, which makes you a wolf
2. He is a wolf and you are his partner
like Fulcrum cant be serious,
Honestly, I think fulcrum has one of the higher equity's for being a wolf, with or without his claim
1. Silvercrys3467 Because of Volume and Consistency
2. Lastwhisper
3. shadowlancerxJackritoProphylaxis (still null)
4. Vaimes (No Consistency, Claim is weird, doesnt seem to care)
5. KittyCupCake (micro read, claim probably town)
6. vezokpiraka (Claim 99% more likely to be town)
7. Rhand (nothing that makes me think he is town)
8. dkingsland967 (I feel like he is actually trying)
9. M1ndreaverKeldeo (given that I have read his wolf games, and played in his town game, I think he is above 75% in being town)
10. Axelrod (effort feels townie now, not as much before)
11. Killjoy (towncore)
12. tomsloger (town core)
13. SlothfulGrapefruit21 (still null)
15. Nachomamma8 (IDK, I am back and forth, can still be town I think)
16. fulcrum (no paranioa, read on Vaimes doesnt sit right with me)
17. Asta(wholesome, no malicious, tonally sound, some shade which I dislike, still more likely to be town I guess)
@Tom
He is a heavy question asker, with reads in between as both alignments, but from the wolf game I read, he makes very forced pushes on his wolf reads, which I haven't seen here yet
@Asta
to be brutally honest, Asta could flip town, and I wouldn't bat an eye in regards to his reads
Keldeo is pretty consistent as both alignments, except for some forced wolf reads, and maybe a slight lack of volume in regards to post count
@Tom
He is a heavy question asker, with reads in between as both alignments, but from the wolf game I read, he makes very forced pushes on his wolf reads, which I haven't seen here yet
uhhm Ill get back to you on that in a couple hours, I need to head to the doctor, to figure out my back pains
and get this stupid work limitation thing filled out, because he recommended I don't do a lot of lifting because of my low calcium level
On the one hand trying to get a masonizer and clear himself is very on brand
On the other I'm not super sure he wasn't trying to shut the Mason chat down and when it didn't work he tried to buy towncred by claiming, and if he actually thinks his role is bad he should've been fine getting bad abilities in exchange for making town reads bulletproof?
I dunno he's talked about it a bunch I'm just not quite getting there I guess
im firmly at NAI for target choice after some thought.
If hes town, he could have used it better but like you say... this was silly but on brand
If hes scum, im not sure it matters what he thought would happen he just targeted vez for some kind of town cred. Whether he thought hed get a neighborhood or just thought he'd get positive vibes from a mason or even <the abilities are fake so he was hoping he wouldnt have to actually trade yet>
Think it was probably a below average target as town and ~average if hes a wolf.
Certainly squarely in both ranges
I believe him when he says he thought he might get a masonizer ability from Vezok. If he was scum, he would have been scared of the ability then not working with Vezok knowing he has it, thus outing him.
except if he got something that outed him somehow he could just not claim?
And i think the chances of that happening anyway are pretty remote. Like, if i think of every way for a mason role to be worded... most have no interaction with vaimes role, some might give him a new neighborhood or access to the one that already exists, and only fringe cases would backfire at all.
Vezok said she would have known he was getting what she gave up. And Vaimes was not in a great position yesterday, was probably expecting to have to claim today or tomorrow. If he's scum, he would have been extra nervous about. The plausibility of it isn't important, what's important is whether Vaimes' thought it would happen.
if we just ignore everything mechanical revolving around Vaimes, he does not look good?
Assuming his ability would work on Vezok, just seems so wild from either a wolf or a town perspective
claiming he did it for town cred can come from a wolf or town
but like ignore all that, and his posts aren't that great
if you have him has obvious town, or anywhere near, with or with the mechanical information
then
1. He is town and you know he is town, which makes you a wolf
2. He is a wolf and you are his partner
like Fulcrum cant be serious,
Honestly, I think fulcrum has one of the higher equity's for being a wolf, with or without his claim
You should know that I introduced Vaimes to mafia, and we've played an absurd amount of games together. My read on him is excellent. If/when I die, I want you to go back to this and realize he's town.
ugh there's a lot to respond to and I have 5 minutes now and little to no time later.
no I'm not gonna post a lot, it's not going to happen at all with pregnant wife and being a teacher. I'm usually reading in a rush and trying to throw something down, but I can only do like 30-45 minutes a day tops for this so like. Whatever. Post numbers aren't AI has been said like a dozen times? I'm not going to artificially force my post count higher with dumb pop-ins and waste everybody's time unless I actually have something to say or ask, but this game has too many people and mechanics for me to feel anything easier to articulate than vague feelings. I'm pretty much just sheeping Tom this game, because his coherent posting feels the same as the Wonkagame. Mad I can't just sheep Gemma tbh.
Yeah whatever shade at the thread. Just expressing some degree of disbelief at the fact that there wasn't another King wagon or even a nomination? Like that's WEIRD, right? It just feels like some of the vezok people gotta be scum either trying to jump on in order to appear town (ala Keldeo voting to lynch his partner Day 1 to make sure he appeared towny) or the Mason role is a fakeclaim and some scum jumped on to do a thing. This is a fairy game, I wouldn't be surprised if Vezok turned out to be Puck the Shapeshifter with the power to appear Masonly or some nonsense. With this many weird roles, I'm not ruling out anything until Vezok's partner claims. *shrug emoji*
I got mislynched in my first game partially due to town implosion and partially due to genuinely asking if No Lynch might be a good idea. So the No Lynch happening Day1 based on some weird mechanics and "we don't have a good enough feeling" doesn't sit well with me. Not really interested in continuing this circle.
Also mentioning me going against the grain on vez while you've been actively pushing suspicions on him based on the fact that the other Mason hasn't claimed is weird (esp in light of you later saying "I don't have a grain I just push whoever") so uh. Acknowledge the contradiction? Me going against the grain is bad but you're fine to.
Should I link the Wonka game I was in or? I dunno, is that like a faux pas? I've seen some folks post excerpts but I don't...................... think I've seen direct links.
@DKings, YEAH that was a flavor win.
Ugh this post alone took 40 minutes to dig up enough info and think enough on to be coherent enough that I'm confident of it to hit send. Don't like this.
Secondly this can all be solved if his Mason buddy claims
I'm not pushing suspicion on him, I just want his partner to claim, because like any other uninformed player, I get paranoid, and I think it is hands down the correct play to do, once a mason claims
If you are busy fine, but don't shade that fact that we no lynched after 3 weeks
I know Vaimes can be townie, including day 1 and day 2
Maybe it is real life, but I'm not going to have that affect my read
If he was to flip town I can say it helps me get out of this tunnel, but information-wise I don't really think it's that great
So maybe Rhand/KCC/ful
Uh, if Vaimes it would help you get out of the tunnel on him? Or are you talking about me? I'm a she.
Asta, links are allowed. Vezok is town, scum didn't push against the king nomination because it was so unanimous. Which, by the way, is why having an alternative King wagon would have been good.
You're saying that Vaimes would need to die and be confirmed town before you stopped tunneling him. Ok, whatever.
I mean if he stays on this level of play? Like wtf, I've played 6 games with vaimes, he was wolf like 3 times, town twice, and now this game, the plays are drastically different
Secondly this can all be solved if his Mason buddy claims
I'm not pushing suspicion on him, I just want his partner to claim, because like any other uninformed player, I get paranoid, and I think it is hands down the correct play to do, once a mason claims
If you are busy fine, but don't shade that fact that we no lynched after 3 weeks
Look, there is no reason for my partner to claim today as I'm king and unless you want to vig me, it's to late for today to express suspicion. Focus on other stuff. It's not that much of a mystery either way. We'll probably claim tomorrow, but there is literally no reason for it to happen today.
And regarding the whole Vaimes thing, I'm kinda falling in favour of town him. I'd rather focus on Rhand a bit.
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I have volunteered to die twice now. Fire away.
I want to kill fulcrum and Nacho. My list hasn’t changed much, Axel might be town. I can put a list together later, try to refresh.
This may be the first vote that could easily have come from a scum hopping on. There was all the momentum at the time, with LW and Gemma having both voted me in the last 15 posts. But that is mostly a timing/position observation, as opposed to a "that vote was actively scummy-looking".
The question then, as always, is, was there any prior foundation for this, or did it just come out of nowhere and was only justified at that opportune moment?
Keldeo does not appear to have had anything to say about me for the first 1000+ post of the game. All his quick impressions and hot takes are on other people. His first vote went to Vaimes. Apparently, this scum read on Vaimes does have something to do with Vaimes' read on me? At least, Keldeo questions Vaimes about his thought process re: my approach to Nacho. But then later Keldeo seems to say this wasn't the actual reason and he was just trying to pressure Vaimes to get a read on him.
By the time Keldeo is fully caught up, as of post #1421, it appears I am a solid nothing to him. He has a few Town reads, and that's about it.
He does ask me a few questions after, mainly focused on my views on KCC. I do not get a sense from these that he developed any kind of read on me as a result on these.
Then he posts #1495 where he states that I am "a bit of a blind spot" for him. He's asking other players for their opinions, and also me to clarify my feeling about DK. The post is...fine? I'm generally not a fan when people make posts essentially asking other people to give them a read on someone. Which is not quite the same thing as just asking someone directly for an opinion on a player. It's a bit...flail-y? Like, he's lamenting that he can't get a handle on me and asking for help?
Maybe that's okay? But seems like something a scum could do also.
He's been supportive of KCC, but insta-votes her after Nacho's thing. Says he trusts Nacho more even though he doesn't really want to lynch KCC. Again, this seem...okay? Like, I can't fault it on the surface. It's just also something that scum could easily do. He seems very cautious, however, to the point of very quickly unvoting KCC and asking no one hammer her before he gets back - even though she was not actually close to being hammered at the time. She was at something like L-4, and now she's at L-5.
And then after Nacho retracts his counter-claim, Keldeo lands on me. So, that's not great.
There's an interesting hesitation for Keldeo after I make my claim. Here. He asks the thread "Why are people still voting the claimed Watcher" while still voting for me himself. He says he's "keeping the vote on" because he doesn't understand why people are voting for No Lynch. Which seems kind of a non-sequitur.
Then does Unvote in #1901, and says he could go with the No Lynch option as well. He's kind of all over the place on me. He asks "Are people confident that Axel is Town," like he still has suspicions, but also says "if this were my homesite I would probably clear both Axel and Fulcrum off those abilities but it isn't."
He's waffley at the deadline. Votes for DK, without seeming enthused about it and unvotes. And goes back to KCC and unvotes. And ultimately ends on No Vote. I personally find the waffling and indecision town-like. I also tend to think that scum would have preferred to lynch a Town in that spot rather than settle for a No Lynch, which might be an okay look. I know Tom strongly disagrees on this point and feels that scum would have supported the No Lynch, so maybe this isn't as good a look as I feel like, but it's certainly where I was, so I can empathize. If KCC is scum, it's much less of a good look.
Keldeo's got no big Red Flags that I see yet, but his positioning on my wagon, and his lack of opinion on me prior to it puts him squarely in the sweet spot for an opportunistic scum. Most of his posts seem reasonable, but nothing that screams "Town" to me and nothing I think I good scum couldn't fake. The best part, for me, was the very end of the day, where he seemed genuinely uncertain about what to do.
So I have to leave him as a definite maybe in the scum-on-my-wagon story, but as I say, nothing smoking here.
I'm still weirdly suspicious of Vezok. Probably just bad instincts, but the King vote happened in what? Four days? The pile on to vote for Vezok quickly feels like at least some scum probably hopped on there. I understand handing the gun off to someone else to make the final call is psychologically easier than casting a lynch vote directly yourself, but like............. we couldn't get a solid shot together in three weeks. Good lord.
What gives you the solo vibes?
also here's a tip, you have 28 posts, which doesn't make you scum, but you aren't even a town lean for most based on volume or even based on your analytics, its mostly just tonal vibes
it's super easy to just pretend to be fake, and you are going against the grain for what?
I forgot to say what I was gunna say:
"we couldn't get a solid shot together in three weeks. Good lord."
don't shade, posts like that just come off as wolfy
I literally just played with a wolf who pretended to be dumb
and him just shading effort is like, a big **** you to the thread
how many of your reads are mechanical?
I count 5 completely unclaimed, and 6 whos claims/roles dont effect my read in any meaningful way.
Like... sure vezok/dkings/kcc/asta. Who else?
But i do currently think axel is town and dkings has a solid chance to be. Wish i had some colors to fill in my dude
I mean, maybe he thought it wouldn't go through?
This is a pretty solid point, though.
Vezok literally offered to lynch whoever the majority chose. I don't really think her process matters here.
Why? Have you ever expressed any suspicion of Keldeo before this?
Actually I think Keldeo is right here. KCC did say that she could use the bus drives any time once they were unlocked. I would have to go back and check, but I think Nacho was one of the people who misunderstood how my ability works.
"Short" list
Axel and fulcrum are both on that list... do you think their roles can't co-exist? And if so, do you think we should resolve that dichotomy today?
We had to select the King within 96 hours.
Talk more about this, please.
Also, aside: It's absolutely hilarious that I breadcrumbed to you!
If hes town, he could have used it better but like you say... this was silly but on brand
If hes scum, im not sure it matters what he thought would happen he just targeted vez for some kind of town cred. Whether he thought hed get a neighborhood or just thought he'd get positive vibes from a mason or even <the abilities are fake so he was hoping he wouldnt have to actually trade yet>
Think it was probably a below average target as town and ~average if hes a wolf.
Certainly squarely in both ranges
fulcrum
Asta
vezokpiraka
tomsloger
Nachomamma8
Vaimes
Light town reads: 0-2 scum
Killjoy
Silvercrys3467
Lastwhisper
Grapefruit21*
Role brigade: 1-2 scum
dkingsland967
Prophylaxis
Axelrod
KittyCupCake
Leaves: 1-2 scum
Rhand
Keldeo
I think Vaimes' usage and attitude around his role are town, done looking there. Tom's clearly trying to solve, Nacho as well. Asta's newbtown. Vezok is a mason.
Silver, Lastwhisper and Killjoy are all pushing against the grain, probably town.
Game feels p easy. Kill Rhand and Keldeo, probably hit scum, go from there.
I believe him when he says he thought he might get a masonizer ability from Vezok. If he was scum, he would have been scared of the ability then not working with Vezok knowing he has it, thus outing him.
Ok, I am really confused. You said you select your target at night, but then you said you switched your target to vezok because you thought KCC "might" be lynched and her claim turned you off?
I suppose I could go back and double-check this, but you have a LOT of posts. I thought you said you could only get an ability from someone else one time?
As claimed its a pretty cool role and i can imagine myself, like,
Oh ***** actually
Make kcc trade her roleblock for something, so vaimes would get tonfind out if shes truthful about a roleblock that doesnt hit a nightkill?
That might not work in some way im missing i just thought of it but you get the idea wheeling and dealing, using it as a rolecop of sorts, giving gifts and getting roles back it all seems pretty fun to me?
lmao there is no grain for me, I push who I believe is a wolf regardless of what anyone else thinks
He doesnt quite understand why we treat a mason claim this way. Not that he doesnt understand the role but doesnt understand the implications of fake claiming it basically.
It probably colors my interpretation that i also dont feel super great about vez beyond claim. But i do think this is towny from asta
I think kcc just has night actions
And i think the chances of that happening anyway are pretty remote. Like, if i think of every way for a mason role to be worded... most have no interaction with vaimes role, some might give him a new neighborhood or access to the one that already exists, and only fringe cases would backfire at all.
Kcc or fonti both excellent targets because of their claims and place in the game imo.
I feel like dkings would be pretty great too? Like id feel pretty good about him if having (in this case, had) a bodyguard was confirmed.
So no, im not into giving vaimes any towncred for targeting vezok. Ill agree its something he would do as town. But its def something he could do as scum too
1431
My D1 misreading of vaimes' soft that he asked for
"Make", like I'm not 110% on board with unloading my trash. But, yeah, let's do this thing
Im not even sure what would have to be faked/theater there
Assuming his ability would work on Vezok, just seems so wild from either a wolf or a town perspective
claiming he did it for town cred can come from a wolf or town
but like ignore all that, and his posts aren't that great
if you have him has obvious town, or anywhere near, with or with the mechanical information
then
1. He is town and you know he is town, which makes you a wolf
2. He is a wolf and you are his partner
like Fulcrum cant be serious,
Honestly, I think fulcrum has one of the higher equity's for being a wolf, with or without his claim
like this always hits at least two wolves I think
2. Lastwhisper
3. shadowlancerxJackritoProphylaxis (still null)
4. Vaimes (No Consistency, Claim is weird, doesnt seem to care)
5. KittyCupCake (micro read, claim probably town)
6. vezokpiraka (Claim 99% more likely to be town)
7. Rhand (nothing that makes me think he is town)
8. dkingsland967 (I feel like he is actually trying)
9. M1ndreaverKeldeo (given that I have read his wolf games, and played in his town game, I think he is above 75% in being town)
10. Axelrod (effort feels townie now, not as much before)
11. Killjoy (towncore)
12. tomsloger (town core)
13. SlothfulGrapefruit21 (still null)
15. Nachomamma8 (IDK, I am back and forth, can still be town I think)
16. fulcrum (no paranioa, read on Vaimes doesnt sit right with me)
17. Asta(wholesome, no malicious, tonally sound, some shade which I dislike, still more likely to be town I guess)
I'm not even sure what anyone would see as a crumb there?
Was the KCC coloring intentional?
I'm interested in hearing your impression of Keldeo in contrast with what Asta mentioned above, once he elaborates on it.
He is a heavy question asker, with reads in between as both alignments, but from the wolf game I read, he makes very forced pushes on his wolf reads, which I haven't seen here yet
@DK
yes because his claim is wolfy as *****
to be brutally honest, Asta could flip town, and I wouldn't bat an eye in regards to his reads
Keldeo is pretty consistent as both alignments, except for some forced wolf reads, and maybe a slight lack of volume in regards to post count
and get this stupid work limitation thing filled out, because he recommended I don't do a lot of lifting because of my low calcium level
So if youre saying his scumgame is characterized by forced pushes, it looks like he didnt even manage to force them.
Vezok said she would have known he was getting what she gave up. And Vaimes was not in a great position yesterday, was probably expecting to have to claim today or tomorrow. If he's scum, he would have been extra nervous about. The plausibility of it isn't important, what's important is whether Vaimes' thought it would happen.
You should know that I introduced Vaimes to mafia, and we've played an absurd amount of games together. My read on him is excellent. If/when I die, I want you to go back to this and realize he's town.
I'm going to keep using this response to posts that I don't care for
Maybe I will, maybe I won't, maybe you flip town, maybe you don't
It's all things I can't answer right now, and I hope vezok shoots vaimes or you
Rhand works too
I'm kinda over KCC, but if he shoots there, I wouldn't be mad either
By shoot I mean lynch
I honestly can't tell if you are a child or in your 70's, but it's definitely one of those.
Maybe it is real life, but I'm not going to have that affect my read
If he was to flip town I can say it helps me get out of this tunnel, but information-wise I don't really think it's that great
So maybe Rhand/KCC/ful
no I'm not gonna post a lot, it's not going to happen at all with pregnant wife and being a teacher. I'm usually reading in a rush and trying to throw something down, but I can only do like 30-45 minutes a day tops for this so like. Whatever. Post numbers aren't AI has been said like a dozen times? I'm not going to artificially force my post count higher with dumb pop-ins and waste everybody's time unless I actually have something to say or ask, but this game has too many people and mechanics for me to feel anything easier to articulate than vague feelings. I'm pretty much just sheeping Tom this game, because his coherent posting feels the same as the Wonkagame. Mad I can't just sheep Gemma tbh.
Yeah whatever shade at the thread. Just expressing some degree of disbelief at the fact that there wasn't another King wagon or even a nomination? Like that's WEIRD, right? It just feels like some of the vezok people gotta be scum either trying to jump on in order to appear town (ala Keldeo voting to lynch his partner Day 1 to make sure he appeared towny) or the Mason role is a fakeclaim and some scum jumped on to do a thing. This is a fairy game, I wouldn't be surprised if Vezok turned out to be Puck the Shapeshifter with the power to appear Masonly or some nonsense. With this many weird roles, I'm not ruling out anything until Vezok's partner claims. *shrug emoji*
I got mislynched in my first game partially due to town implosion and partially due to genuinely asking if No Lynch might be a good idea. So the No Lynch happening Day1 based on some weird mechanics and "we don't have a good enough feeling" doesn't sit well with me. Not really interested in continuing this circle.
Also mentioning me going against the grain on vez while you've been actively pushing suspicions on him based on the fact that the other Mason hasn't claimed is weird (esp in light of you later saying "I don't have a grain I just push whoever") so uh. Acknowledge the contradiction? Me going against the grain is bad but you're fine to.
Should I link the Wonka game I was in or? I dunno, is that like a faux pas? I've seen some folks post excerpts but I don't...................... think I've seen direct links.
@DKings, YEAH that was a flavor win.
Ugh this post alone took 40 minutes to dig up enough info and think enough on to be coherent enough that I'm confident of it to hit send. Don't like this.
Secondly this can all be solved if his Mason buddy claims
I'm not pushing suspicion on him, I just want his partner to claim, because like any other uninformed player, I get paranoid, and I think it is hands down the correct play to do, once a mason claims
If you are busy fine, but don't shade that fact that we no lynched after 3 weeks
Uh, if Vaimes it would help you get out of the tunnel on him? Or are you talking about me? I'm a she.
Asta, links are allowed. Vezok is town, scum didn't push against the king nomination because it was so unanimous. Which, by the way, is why having an alternative King wagon would have been good.
You're saying that Vaimes would need to die and be confirmed town before you stopped tunneling him. Ok, whatever.
I am all ears, but I don't see it
Look, there is no reason for my partner to claim today as I'm king and unless you want to vig me, it's to late for today to express suspicion. Focus on other stuff. It's not that much of a mystery either way. We'll probably claim tomorrow, but there is literally no reason for it to happen today.
And regarding the whole Vaimes thing, I'm kinda falling in favour of town him. I'd rather focus on Rhand a bit.
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