@Rhand: I didn't mention you at all cause you didn't do anything memorable. After this wall I'd pribably put you in the solid town category. This looks nothing like your scum game. You're building up a world instead of deconstructing TMI.
I'm also kinda scratching my head how you just saw me play a scum game and think that this resembles anything related to that.
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@Rhand
I agree with the people attacking Tom's gimmick being wolfy, but that's also on an individual level, because I think the two other players that attack it, both Sloth, and Axel, don't look great. But I am town, so its probably NAI unless you look deeply at how they are attacking, remember context matters, and I personally dont think either of their frustrations feel real
I think you are over-reading the "frustration" you think I am feeling about Tom's posting. I look at stuff like that from a purely cost/benefit analysis standpoint. There is no benefit, as Town. There is a benefit, as scum.
I mean, I think that's not even particularly debatable. It doesn't make him scum, I realize. There is a greater than average chance he's just doing what he wants to amuse himself, but I will say stuff I think and point out bad play.
I let it go. I'm perfectly fine with the explanation that she offered.
"Perfectly fine?" Considering you were actively calling for her to claim, I'm wondering how you get to "perfectly fine" so quickly based on the (very minimal) response she made?
I voted nacho because I think they are scum. I didn't have questions to ask to clarify what was said because my mind was already made. I voted hoping that other would be convinced and do the same.
Your mind was already made? It sounds like you are saying you were so convinced Nacho was scum there was nothing he could say to persuade you otherwise, so you didn't even bother to question him further. And that seems like a rather strong opinion to hold so early in the game.
vote slothful -too lazy to come up with a reason right now though
Also, heads up for whenever I claim, my role is super scummy.
The motivations that I can parse for this soft are a little iffy regardless of KCC's alignment; my initial thought was that she was a newer player making a bit of a misplay to the point where it might be possible to get her to claim early and lock her in as town; unconventional and maybe not the greatest play, but also somewhat influenced by the fact that I can't think of a role that's not pro-scum but also scummy, meaning that the chances of her being silly were decent and thus the potential of getting a confident town early outweighed the risk of outing something I shouldn't out early. I also hoped she was actually around so that I could see her reaction to being pressed to claim a bit (guessing she wouldn't expect a strong push early to get her to do so if scum), but that didn't happy and so I'm happy enough with her "I know what I'm doing, leave me alone" post.
Ok, so I guess this is your explanation for why you were satisfied with KCC's response. I am having trouble parsing this. You thought:
(1) KCC might be a new player, and by pressing her you might get her to claim, and thus confirm her as Town? Because
(2) You couldn't think of a (good) Town role that sounds scummy? So the risk of outing said role was outweighed by the benefit of getting a strong town read? And,
(3) You also hoped she would be around to answer your pressing her in real time, to get some more instant reactions, I guess? But
(4) That didn't happen, so when she finally did respond with "I know what I'm doing, leave me alone" you were satisfied.
It's not a significant difference in read strength, but I'm happier here.
Unvote, Vote: Axelrod
I don't like that Axelrod's focus this game has been nothing but KCC and tom's gimmick. They're low-hanging fruit as far as things to talk and push are concerned, and although I don't think I disagree horribly with anything he's said so far (except for his dislike of the gimmick), I know he's a capable town player and I can't imagine him not having anything else to say other than what he has.
If this is true, you need some better imagination. This game has barely even started. I am much more likely to pick at some small thing I find of interest. Then the next thing. Then the next. Then maybe later do some kind of global review/assessment.
KCC still hasn't said anything to make me feel like moving my vote.
Also just wantrd to comment on Mindreaver's omgus. Nice piece of work there. Accussing me of having surface level reads on page 3. Well drop me on my head and call me Jimmy, but I can't have deep reads when there's nothing to justify them.
I feel a lot more confident on my vote now.
Just pointing this out in as much as it seems to go against what you said before about already having your mind made up about Nacho so no need for any questioning. I understand surface level reads and votes with not much behind them. But usually, when it's a surface level read with not much behind it, you would then poke and/or prod the person you are voting to try and get a better read, yes?
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Vezok: I am seeing one difference between that game and this one that gives me a bit of pause. I’m not going to tell you what though, I need to see more from you here first.
There seems to be a misunderstanding about what I said earlier. When I said my mind was made up, I meant in regards of the vote not on the read. I was going to vote nacho and watch reactions before I decided on other courses of action.
My action regarding nacho was to vote her and see what happens. I'm not the type of person who is good at asking questions that would clarify my read on that person.
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KCC:
Claiming a scummy role from the get-go is the townie thing to do. Scum doesn’t like locking themselves into a claim from the start. I know a few players that do things like that, but KCC doesn’t strike me as one of those, unless she is consciously changing up her game. Which is totally unnecessary because she hasn’t played that many games recently that we all know her meta.
I like her Nacho reaction and have a total mindmeld with her question to Vaimes in #200
Verdict: town
...
Axelrod:
The fact that he chose a semi-serious RVS target is bothersome. What is worse is that he uses KCC’s later posts to strengthen that vote. And then he calls tom’s gimmick in itself scummy.
Verdict: scum
All right, at the risk of being accused of derailing the game on a point of "theory," let's go here for a minute.
"Claiming a scummy role from the get-go is the Townie thing to do." At first blush it looks like you are conflating "claiming your scummy role" and "claiming that you have a scummy-sounding role." And while the former might be a thing to do, depending, I would think that claiming the later isn't. I'm trying to imagine how I would act if I got a role PM and it was something I felt like, gee, if I claim this the Town is going to think I am scum for sure. Without speculating too much, my initial thought is that I would feel like I just had to be on my Townie game that game, and just be so super-Townie that I was above suspicion. Or, maybe, I would claim it. Depending on what it was. What I don't see myself doing is going "Hey guys, my role is super-scummy sounding, so, you know, when I claim it, don't hold that against me, kthxby."
That's me though. I'm not locked that no reasonable person could feel otherwise. But it was worth a vote at a time when the votes are mostly worthless.
You say that she has "locked" herself into a claim and scum don't like to do that. Except, maybe, the scum who has a scummy sounding role, yes? Wouldn't they just love to be able to claim their role and not worry about how scummy it looks? That's not a newbie-scum move, to be sure. but KCC isn't a newbie. I'm a little confused about your comments about her meta also. Do you think you know it? Or not? You say she doesn't "strike" you as the type to make a gutsy scum move in her 1st post, but where is that coming from? You also point out how she hasn't been around in a while (except for recently, when I don't think she's been scum). So, how does that even follow?
As for me, what do you find "bothersome" about my "semi-serious" RVS target? Time was, I didn't RVS vote at all, on principle, because I thought they were pointless silly things to do. I got over that. But I think I'm still quicker than most to move past that stage.
I did want to hear KCC's thoughts about why she made that post. You think that's strange? I suppose, maybe, if you really feel her play was the correct "townie" thing to do. But broaden your horizons a bit. Assuming you didn't have that opinion about her opening post - how would her follow up have reassured you? Would it have? I thought it didn't answer the question at all, except, in the most unhelpful way. Like, she is saying (now) that she hopes that by claiming her role is scummy it will help to avoid a mis-lynch? I just don't think that's so. If she is going to avoid a mis-lynch, it's going to be by playing like a Townie. Scum-day chat also does make a scum-claim like that marginally more likely.
None of that makes her scum either, but it's still early. I do not get the "town" read for all of her three posts.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
About KCC: maybe I phrased it wrong. It should’ve been “a” townie thing to do instead of “the” townie thing to do. Not claiming anything is also townie.
It takes a certain personality type to prepare your claim as mafia on D1. LW, shadow, tom are some people here that I could see doing that. I haven’t seen KCC’s scum game for a long time, but I do know she plays the persons game over the mechanics game. She wouldn’t play the mechanics from D1 as either alignment. Which is exactly what preparing a claim is.
Most scum fakeclaim. They don’t go around preparing us for their scummy role D1.
KCC does tend to get ran up and she knows it. So her thinking about what would happen if she does and her having to claim that role then is perfectly normal.
Was there an answer KCC could’ve given you that would have triggered you to remove your vote?
Hey folks. I feel like this game is me, 5-6 players I know, and 10 Natirasha alts. Wonderful.
Anyway, here are a few quick notes:
- I was tempted to vote Mindreaver for 29, but it's for the same reason I started the Killjoy wagon in Modern Mafia and that didn't work out so well. Also, vezok is/was voting him (more below). Bleh.
- So far I'm actually liking Killjoy for town (for once)... which probably means I'm wrong yet again and he's scum this time.
- I'm not seeing what others are seeing in Axelrod. Maybe it's because I agree with a lot of his points, but I don't see a malicious mindset in anything he's said. Maybe a little paranoid?
Cause I was scum with him last game. And I was also part of the previous game where he was scum. I felt like I should comment on him because I should be able to discern some scummines/ towniness from him after these games, but right now I'm at nothing.
This post in particular about LW reads disingenuous/trying too hard to look solvy when she didn't actually have anything of substance to say.
@slothful: I ignored your question cause it's irrelevant and self explanstory.
Gemma's attack on me is ???. I voted nacho because I think they are scum. I didn't have questions to ask to clarify what was said because my mind was already made. I voted hoping that other would be convinced and do the same.
I think Axelrod is the only person who caught this contradiction, and vezok's response is unconvincing. These posts were like 10 hours apart, and vezok had already moved her vote from Nacho to Mindreaver (for reasons that have never been articulated) when the second post was made.
Cause I was scum with him last game. And I was also part of the previous game where he was scum. I felt like I should comment on him because I should be able to discern some scummines/ towniness from him after these games, but right now I'm at nothing.
This post in particular about LW reads disingenuous/trying too hard to look solvy when she didn't actually have anything of substance to say.
Also, why is vezok answering a question directed to her trying to hard to say things? I don't follow.
but that never happened. Nothing was exaggerated, nobody was criticized. You make it sound like several people were attacking Gemma, and all Silver did was ask a question.
Speaking of that, LW criticizing me for posting in general, even though it’s considerably less, and even though there’s content to comment on, is right up scum alley.
but that never happened. Nothing was exaggerated, nobody was criticized. You make it sound like several people were attacking Gemma, and all Silver did was ask a question.
Speaking of that, LW criticizing me for posting in general, even though it’s considerably less, and even though there’s content to comment on, is right up scum alley.
The scummy angle there is that Vezok was nervous about being expected to read lastwhisper, and her commenting on it betrayed that nervousness. The town angle is that she was expecting it from herself, and wanted to outline her thought process. I think the lack of initial detail on that process is kind of towny, because a self-conscious person would have tried to flesh it out more.
Because i actually understand most of his views and because he's throwing out tons of reads.
What is your read on him?
I don't have one, because he's being deliberately obstructionist. I can see multiple ways to take posts about his reads, and assigning a good reason just because it's what I'm thinking gives him credit for thoughts he may have never had.
Can you give me an example in his reads where you understand what he's saying? And, like, how you know that's what he's actually saying and not just what you happen to be reading into it?
vote slothful -too lazy to come up with a reason right now though
Also, heads up for whenever I claim, my role is super scummy.
Vote: KCC
Might as well get it over with.
I spy with my little eye
A girlie I can get 'cause she don't get too many likes
A curly-headed cutie I can turn into my wife
Wait, that means foreverever, hold up, never mind
vote axel
He sees Axel going for KCC who is an easy mislynch and votes him for it.
pretend this spoiler has all of sloths posts where he *didnt* leave the thread. i dont feel like quoting.
Just to get to see an MC who breathes so freely
Ease over these beats and be so breezy
Turn on these beats, MC's don't see me
Believe me, BET and MTV
Are gonna grieve when we leave, dawg, fo' sheezy
Can't leave rap alone, the game needs me
sloth town
He says Sloth is carefree and feels real guilt for not being able to play as much as he wants.
Trust me, he is just the worst at board games
Debates about the rules like legislators at a court case
Tampers with the scales of justice
Wielding pencils as his gavel
Once I even caught him cheating while he kept the score in Scrabble
He's a ******* wreck at checkers
Plays Monopoly sloppily
Always bringing up disputes in games of trivial pursuit
Sucks at Battleship and Risk
He fights better hand-to-hand
And don't even get me started bout how trash he is at Candy Land
Like you can't... be bad at that that game yet... he loses all the time. It doesn't make any sense.
Last town
Last is misguided and flails a lot but he’s not trying to abuse the mechanics to win (which would be scum!last)
The beat breaks and your teeth break
Keep your canines embedded in my knuckles as a keepsake
It would seem your veneers just mere souvenirs
Falling out your mouth and on to the landscape vote fonti
Sometimes I let my ego get the best of me
Sometimes I wonder why my stress is stressing me
Sometimes I lay awake and I can't go to sleep
This is my introduction to anxiety
Sometimes I need someone to take control of me
Sometimes I let my demons get ahold me
Sometimes I think that ***** ain't what it used to be
This is my introduction to anxiety Nacho town
I love the thought of being with you
Or maybe it's the thought of not being so alone
Man, ****, I really love being in love
But I also really love not crying on the phone Silver town
Solving puzzles of the universe from jupiter to mars
Playing scientists to try and say we flew there in our cars
Like, "maybe it's not all bad, this scenic view's bizarre"
Watching hydrocarbon neptune snow dissolving from the stars
I never thought I'd say this, but frankly it's been peaceful
To escape from that distasteful state of hate, deceit, and evil gemma town
Nacho is longing for understanding
Silver is emotional, which probably is his town!meta according to tom
Gemma is genuinely trying to solve the game
@tom: If I misinterpret anything, please correct me. But I'm pretty sure this is what he's saying.
These are three specific Vaimes posts I've made a note of that I liked.
Regarding that vezok post, it's the "I felt like I should comment on him" part.
Thank you! Why the the last Vaimes quote?
It was a direct response to someone either voting for/casting suspicion on Mindreaver, and I like that he was direct and succinct in expressing doubt. Nothing really vague/leave-the-door-open-to-push-later in that response, but also asking a specific question that invited disagreement/discussion.
Sorry if this is a bit nitpicky, I do agree on the other contradiction you pointed out from Vezok.
I'm glad someone is engaging me so I can look at things from other angles.
I do kinda see your point in 319, but I just thought the post seemed forced when I read it the first time. Also, I don't think anyone actually asked vezok to comment on LW (I would have to go back and check). I believe the question mark thing Rhand asked about was more of a throwaway comment.
@Vaimes
I mean not much has changed between my last two games except my alignment, I am still trying to take games slower, and I dont think its good for anyone to spam, maybe for the wolves? if you are town, which is up in the air since that depends on your consistency, then you arent going to solve the game day 1, and we have 3 weeks
Your criticism would be valid if my posts made up the majority of the game thread, but they don’t.
Also, I could totally get lucky and solve the game now. Pushing that world is a different matter entirely.
Nah you definitely talk to much, its a little better this game so far though
and that's the funny thing, if u did solve the game right now, it would just be luck since you would never have enough tangible evidence to prove you are right
Your criticism would be valid if my posts made up the majority of the game thread, but they don’t.
Also, I could totally get lucky and solve the game now. Pushing that world is a different matter entirely.
Nah you definitely talk to much, its a little better this game so far though
and that's the funny thing, if u did solve the game right now, it would just be luck since you would never have enough tangible evidence to prove you are right
What are you trying to achieve with this conversation?
also the "correct" thing for KCC to do here if she want to be super transparent is fully claim her role, but I am not going to make her full claim if she doesnt want, I dont live in this world where breadcrumbs and softs always come from wolves like my brother seems to believe
I'd rather just focus on her content, and I don't believe that Axel is any more scummy for wanting to dig more into KCC and her claim
I dont know at this point of Rhand is trying to inflate the how scummy he thinks Axel's question is, is malicious, or just how he sees it
Your criticism would be valid if my posts made up the majority of the game thread, but they don’t.
Also, I could totally get lucky and solve the game now. Pushing that world is a different matter entirely.
Nah you definitely talk to much, its a little better this game so far though
and that's the funny thing, if u did solve the game right now, it would just be luck since you would never have enough tangible evidence to prove you are right
What are you trying to achieve with this conversation?
nothing, I am just not a fan of Vaimes, that's all
also the "correct" thing for KCC to do here if she want to be super transparent is fully claim her role, but I am not going to make her full claim if she doesnt want, I dont live in this world where breadcrumbs and softs always come from wolves like my brother seems to believe
I'd rather just focus on her content, and I don't believe that Axel is any more scummy for wanting to dig more into KCC and her claim
I dont know at this point of Rhand is trying to inflate the how scummy he thinks Axel's question is, is malicious, or just how he sees it
It's pretty obvious that the bolded is not what she wants though?
I'm still catching up TBH and having to read so fast that it's hard for anything to stick. I also have to keep checking acronyms (boy did I feel dumb looking up NAI and RVS for the third time this month but whatever).
Early impressions
Refusing to answer questions feels bad no matter the alignment. Unless it's a joke question, answers are always going to help town, so I side-eye folks who outright ignore questions. It's why I actually went ahead and answered some questions about me or what have you even though I was still 3 pages behind.
Tom's gimmick is gonna drive me bonkers-- I can barely follow this game as-is so far, and anything other than his votes are gonna be impossible for me to even want to parse.
Kind of not bothered by early scumreads of me because I know I haven't been active. Trying to fix that today and maybe throw out some questions.
Hate that MTGS doesn't merge multiple posts by same person, didn't realize I'd enjoy that so much but it makes it way easier to realize when something has abruptly become a monologue rather than conversation.
Mostly seeing a lot of attempts to get the game moving but I'll need to review more to find any weird inconsistencies or oddball behaviors.
also the "correct" thing for KCC to do here if she want to be super transparent is fully claim her role, but I am not going to make her full claim if she doesnt want, I dont live in this world where breadcrumbs and softs always come from wolves like my brother seems to believe
I'd rather just focus on her content, and I don't believe that Axel is any more scummy for wanting to dig more into KCC and her claim
I dont know at this point of Rhand is trying to inflate the how scummy he thinks Axel's question is, is malicious, or just how he sees it
It's pretty obvious that the bolded is not what she wants though?
maybe? I can't read her mind, so the only way for me to understand why she did it, is to continue to read her posts and see what she does from here on out
I'm glad someone is engaging me so I can look at things from other angles.
I do kinda see your point in 319, but I just thought the post seemed forced when I read it the first time. Also, I don't think anyone actually asked vezok to comment on LW (I would have to go back and check). I believe the question mark thing Rhand asked about was more of a throwaway comment.
Good to hear. I'm having a lot of trouble getting my head around this game. I'm guessing you've felt something similar, with that Natirasha alt comment?
No one asked Vezok to comment LW, and it was a throw away comment. I think she either 1.expected someone to ask her about him or 2.was expecting to get a read herself and didn't express that well.
@Rhand, man I don't even see most of those. I can maybe see the one about me, if he's saying I'm too toothless to kill him (which he knows isn't true, but whatever, he's 90% bravado at the best of times). I can see the axel, sloth and gemma ones coming from part of what tom's said, but there are a lot of lines in there that don't fit. What does "Wait, that means foreverever, hold up, never mind" mean for Axel? Is he saying that Axel isn't going after KCC strongly enough for it to be a real read? Is he saying he expects Axel to back off later? I can see tom saying Sloth seems carefree, but the main difference in Sloth's post style in this game is from feedback about his last scum game /that I gave him/, and tom knows that. Sloth definitely isn't "grieving" being away from the thread, that doesn't make any sense. I don't the lost thing at all, but that probably because I don't know lost. Why is tom's song there so long? Is he just having fun dissing lost? Is he saying anything game related? I don't get how you thought Tom is saying Nacho's wants understanding, that seems like your reads of Nacho. I'm seeing Tom saying that Nacho seems anxious, since that's word that kept popping up in the rap. Or maybe he's calling Nacho paranoid, and that's towny, because of the "Sometimes I let my demons get ahold me," but that's my read of Nacho that I'm just attributing to Tom. How is tom saying silver is being emotional? Where is he saying that's Silver's town meta? Is that something you guys talked about before, or again is that just your thought that you think Tom is also having? I assume he's saying Gemma is solving, because it starts with the word "solving" but is "To escape from that distasteful state of hate, deceit, and evil" saying that she's seems to be a better mood than when she was last scum?
Do you see the problem here? I have thoughts about the players in the game, and as long as something in tom's posts could be interpreted as being similar to those thoughts, he gets to have me thinking we're on the same page, even though there's no actual evidence he's thinking anything close to what I'm thinking? And both of us saying all of this is bad, because now he has all these ideas to retroactively justify his reads. How do you know your interpretation is correct and not just what you want to see?
also the "correct" thing for KCC to do here if she want to be super transparent is fully claim her role, but I am not going to make her full claim if she doesnt want, I dont live in this world where breadcrumbs and softs always come from wolves like my brother seems to believe
I'd rather just focus on her content, and I don't believe that Axel is any more scummy for wanting to dig more into KCC and her claim
I dont know at this point of Rhand is trying to inflate the how scummy he thinks Axel's question is, is malicious, or just how he sees it
KCC, I’m saying I don’t need those interactions to find Last scummy for them. They strengthen or weaken upon flips, sure, but I’m not gonna wait until scum flips fall from the sky to make potential connections.
It definitely makes sense to keep track of those things. I'm just probably not going to care until someone involved flips
I also don’t think the “scum wouldn’t be openly scummy” read works for me. Seem too many well respected players absolutely flub it on Day 1. We can talk about it after a few more pages of content, maybe.
Oh, yeah, it's definitely not set in stone, there's tons of exceptions, but I think it's truer than not on average
They're related because Nacho's push appeared to be at least partly based on the fact that I didn't weigh in on your soft. If he's not rolefishing then... I guess he really just expected me to have thoughts about your claim, I guess, but it partly felt like he wanted me to weigh in on it and try to put pressure on you because he thought I was agreeing with Axel or something. My thoughts on this still aren't very coherent but this progression felt contradictory to me. It doesn't to you?
Oh, I get what you're saying. I could maybe see that, but that's not what it felt like to me. And I really liked the progression there, especially now that it's been explained more
@Kitty:Can you order the playerlist from town to scum for me? I don't necessarily need reasons (although reasons are nice), but I'm having trouble placing where you are ATM.
I don't really play that way. And even if I did, I don't have many reads yet, kinda struggling just keeping up.
I do like you so far. I cautiously like vaimes and rhand and a bit Tom. I'm okay with Vez pressure. I'm about to vote fulcrum in a minute
I don't have one, because he's being deliberately obstructionist. I can see multiple ways to take posts about his reads, and assigning a good reason just because it's what I'm thinking gives him credit for thoughts he may have never had.
Can you give me an example in his reads where you understand what he's saying? And, like, how you know that's what he's actually saying and not just what you happen to be reading into it?
This is ugly smearing. Tom's post are pretty straightforward, certainly more so than how this tries to make it sound. This feels over the top even from someone who doesn't like it
[This is ugly smearing. Tom's post are pretty straightforward, certainly more so than how this tries to make it sound. This feels over the top even from someone who doesn't like it
unvote vote fulcrum
They are not. I've seen tom be straight forward and play the game. This isn't it.
[This is ugly smearing. Tom's post are pretty straightforward, certainly more so than how this tries to make it sound. This feels over the top even from someone who doesn't like it
unvote vote fulcrum
They are not. I've seen tom be straight forward and play the game. This isn't it.
and in the end, it's still the interpretation of his content that matters
Actually, let me put it this way. KCC, do you agree with everything Rhand said about Tom's reads? Do you think Rhand described everything Tom was saying in those posts? If you do, ok, maybe Tom's actually being super clear and I just can't get him. But I don't think you do.
@Vaimes
I mean not much has changed between my last two games except my alignment, I am still trying to take games slower, and I dont think its good for anyone to spam, maybe for the wolves? if you are town, which is up in the air since that depends on your consistency, then you arent going to solve the game day 1, and we have 3 weeks
@vezok
why did you ignore my vote?
I ignored a lot of things. Your vote mostly didn't phase me.
I like fulcrum more and more. I don't know why she'd try to provide so many reasonable propositions for why I acted the way I did if she was scum.
KCC voting fulcrum feels ???? I don't feel like that post is smearing tom. Fulcrum is asking a question to another person and not really attacking tom. I also agree that tom's gimmick makes his post unreadable. I skipped all of them simply because I have no idea what he is trying to say in them. I only read the bolded parts. Don't feel like tom's scum though. He does these gimmicks all the time and drops them when stuff becomes serious.
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Will back read and toss out some reads at some point today, but I love you all. Gorta run!
Do read it please
I'm also kinda scratching my head how you just saw me play a scum game and think that this resembles anything related to that.
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I mean, I think that's not even particularly debatable. It doesn't make him scum, I realize. There is a greater than average chance he's just doing what he wants to amuse himself, but I will say stuff I think and point out bad play.
"Perfectly fine?" Considering you were actively calling for her to claim, I'm wondering how you get to "perfectly fine" so quickly based on the (very minimal) response she made?
Your mind was already made? It sounds like you are saying you were so convinced Nacho was scum there was nothing he could say to persuade you otherwise, so you didn't even bother to question him further. And that seems like a rather strong opinion to hold so early in the game.
Ok, so I guess this is your explanation for why you were satisfied with KCC's response. I am having trouble parsing this. You thought:
(1) KCC might be a new player, and by pressing her you might get her to claim, and thus confirm her as Town? Because
(2) You couldn't think of a (good) Town role that sounds scummy? So the risk of outing said role was outweighed by the benefit of getting a strong town read? And,
(3) You also hoped she would be around to answer your pressing her in real time, to get some more instant reactions, I guess? But
(4) That didn't happen, so when she finally did respond with "I know what I'm doing, leave me alone" you were satisfied.
Is that correct?
So, this is a bit of a Red Flag for me. The "Tom is Tom" remark.
If this is true, you need some better imagination. This game has barely even started. I am much more likely to pick at some small thing I find of interest. Then the next thing. Then the next. Then maybe later do some kind of global review/assessment.
KCC still hasn't said anything to make me feel like moving my vote.
Just pointing this out in as much as it seems to go against what you said before about already having your mind made up about Nacho so no need for any questioning. I understand surface level reads and votes with not much behind them. But usually, when it's a surface level read with not much behind it, you would then poke and/or prod the person you are voting to try and get a better read, yes?
@Axel: how is “tom is tom” a red flag?
My action regarding nacho was to vote her and see what happens. I'm not the type of person who is good at asking questions that would clarify my read on that person.
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"Claiming a scummy role from the get-go is the Townie thing to do." At first blush it looks like you are conflating "claiming your scummy role" and "claiming that you have a scummy-sounding role." And while the former might be a thing to do, depending, I would think that claiming the later isn't. I'm trying to imagine how I would act if I got a role PM and it was something I felt like, gee, if I claim this the Town is going to think I am scum for sure. Without speculating too much, my initial thought is that I would feel like I just had to be on my Townie game that game, and just be so super-Townie that I was above suspicion. Or, maybe, I would claim it. Depending on what it was. What I don't see myself doing is going "Hey guys, my role is super-scummy sounding, so, you know, when I claim it, don't hold that against me, kthxby."
That's me though. I'm not locked that no reasonable person could feel otherwise. But it was worth a vote at a time when the votes are mostly worthless.
You say that she has "locked" herself into a claim and scum don't like to do that. Except, maybe, the scum who has a scummy sounding role, yes? Wouldn't they just love to be able to claim their role and not worry about how scummy it looks? That's not a newbie-scum move, to be sure. but KCC isn't a newbie. I'm a little confused about your comments about her meta also. Do you think you know it? Or not? You say she doesn't "strike" you as the type to make a gutsy scum move in her 1st post, but where is that coming from? You also point out how she hasn't been around in a while (except for recently, when I don't think she's been scum). So, how does that even follow?
As for me, what do you find "bothersome" about my "semi-serious" RVS target? Time was, I didn't RVS vote at all, on principle, because I thought they were pointless silly things to do. I got over that. But I think I'm still quicker than most to move past that stage.
I did want to hear KCC's thoughts about why she made that post. You think that's strange? I suppose, maybe, if you really feel her play was the correct "townie" thing to do. But broaden your horizons a bit. Assuming you didn't have that opinion about her opening post - how would her follow up have reassured you? Would it have? I thought it didn't answer the question at all, except, in the most unhelpful way. Like, she is saying (now) that she hopes that by claiming her role is scummy it will help to avoid a mis-lynch? I just don't think that's so. If she is going to avoid a mis-lynch, it's going to be by playing like a Townie. Scum-day chat also does make a scum-claim like that marginally more likely.
None of that makes her scum either, but it's still early. I do not get the "town" read for all of her three posts.
It takes a certain personality type to prepare your claim as mafia on D1. LW, shadow, tom are some people here that I could see doing that. I haven’t seen KCC’s scum game for a long time, but I do know she plays the persons game over the mechanics game. She wouldn’t play the mechanics from D1 as either alignment. Which is exactly what preparing a claim is.
Most scum fakeclaim. They don’t go around preparing us for their scummy role D1.
KCC does tend to get ran up and she knows it. So her thinking about what would happen if she does and her having to claim that role then is perfectly normal.
Was there an answer KCC could’ve given you that would have triggered you to remove your vote?
Anyway, here are a few quick notes:
- I was tempted to vote Mindreaver for 29, but it's for the same reason I started the Killjoy wagon in Modern Mafia and that didn't work out so well. Also, vezok is/was voting him (more below). Bleh.
- So far I'm actually liking Killjoy for town (for once)... which probably means I'm wrong yet again and he's scum this time.
- I'm not seeing what others are seeing in Axelrod. Maybe it's because I agree with a lot of his points, but I don't see a malicious mindset in anything he's said. Maybe a little paranoid?
/Barn the **** out of this. I would appreciate it if the memes stopped as well.
On to the meat and potatoes... I don't like vezok. She's making reads out of nothing.
This post in particular about LW reads disingenuous/trying too hard to look solvy when she didn't actually have anything of substance to say.
I think Axelrod is the only person who caught this contradiction, and vezok's response is unconvincing. These posts were like 10 hours apart, and vezok had already moved her vote from Nacho to Mindreaver (for reasons that have never been articulated) when the second post was made.
Vaimes reads pretty town to me, seems like he is posting in earnest and the couple things he has latched onto feel like he believes he is right.
Asta is more gut, but I'm getting the same low-hanging fruit/skittish newb vibe that I got from Fuwa on D1 in Modern.
Vote Vezok
Could you quote those couple things?
Also, why is vezok answering a question directed to her trying to hard to say things? I don't follow.
These are three specific Vaimes posts I've made a note of that I liked.
Regarding that vezok post, it's the "I felt like I should comment on him" part.
Thank you! Why the the last Vaimes quote?
So the original post from vezok was:
That doesn't look like she was trying to look solvey at all, to me.
Sorry if this is a bit nitpicky, I do agree on the other contradiction you pointed out from Vezok.
Because i actually understand most of his views and because he's throwing out tons of reads.
What is your read on him?
I don't have one, because he's being deliberately obstructionist. I can see multiple ways to take posts about his reads, and assigning a good reason just because it's what I'm thinking gives him credit for thoughts he may have never had.
Can you give me an example in his reads where you understand what he's saying? And, like, how you know that's what he's actually saying and not just what you happen to be reading into it?
I dunno, I just noticed complaining about posts existing is a thing he tends to do as scum. He tends to exaggerate how much I’m spamming.
Does he have motivation issues as scum? Because it's probably that.
He sees Axel going for KCC who is an easy mislynch and votes him for it.
He says Sloth is carefree and feels real guilt for not being able to play as much as he wants.
This one I don’t completely get, but I agree with his Nacho read so
Last is misguided and flails a lot but he’s not trying to abuse the mechanics to win (which would be scum!last)
Your attacks don’t have punch to them.
Nacho is longing for understanding
Silver is emotional, which probably is his town!meta according to tom
Gemma is genuinely trying to solve the game
@tom: If I misinterpret anything, please correct me. But I'm pretty sure this is what he's saying.
It was a direct response to someone either voting for/casting suspicion on Mindreaver, and I like that he was direct and succinct in expressing doubt. Nothing really vague/leave-the-door-open-to-push-later in that response, but also asking a specific question that invited disagreement/discussion.
I'm glad someone is engaging me so I can look at things from other angles.
I do kinda see your point in 319, but I just thought the post seemed forced when I read it the first time. Also, I don't think anyone actually asked vezok to comment on LW (I would have to go back and check). I believe the question mark thing Rhand asked about was more of a throwaway comment.
Do you want a gift? A, B, or C.
I mean not much has changed between my last two games except my alignment, I am still trying to take games slower, and I dont think its good for anyone to spam, maybe for the wolves? if you are town, which is up in the air since that depends on your consistency, then you arent going to solve the game day 1, and we have 3 weeks
@vezok
why did you ignore my vote?
Also I could totally get lucky and solve the game now. Pushing that world is a different matter entirely.
and that's the funny thing, if u did solve the game right now, it would just be luck since you would never have enough tangible evidence to prove you are right
What are you trying to achieve with this conversation?
I'd rather just focus on her content, and I don't believe that Axel is any more scummy for wanting to dig more into KCC and her claim
I dont know at this point of Rhand is trying to inflate the how scummy he thinks Axel's question is, is malicious, or just how he sees it
It's pretty obvious that the bolded is not what she wants though?
Early impressions
Refusing to answer questions feels bad no matter the alignment. Unless it's a joke question, answers are always going to help town, so I side-eye folks who outright ignore questions. It's why I actually went ahead and answered some questions about me or what have you even though I was still 3 pages behind.
Tom's gimmick is gonna drive me bonkers-- I can barely follow this game as-is so far, and anything other than his votes are gonna be impossible for me to even want to parse.
Kind of not bothered by early scumreads of me because I know I haven't been active. Trying to fix that today and maybe throw out some questions.
Hate that MTGS doesn't merge multiple posts by same person, didn't realize I'd enjoy that so much but it makes it way easier to realize when something has abruptly become a monologue rather than conversation.
Mostly seeing a lot of attempts to get the game moving but I'll need to review more to find any weird inconsistencies or oddball behaviors.
Good to hear. I'm having a lot of trouble getting my head around this game. I'm guessing you've felt something similar, with that Natirasha alt comment?
No one asked Vezok to comment LW, and it was a throw away comment. I think she either 1.expected someone to ask her about him or 2.was expecting to get a read herself and didn't express that well.
@Rhand, man I don't even see most of those. I can maybe see the one about me, if he's saying I'm too toothless to kill him (which he knows isn't true, but whatever, he's 90% bravado at the best of times). I can see the axel, sloth and gemma ones coming from part of what tom's said, but there are a lot of lines in there that don't fit. What does "Wait, that means foreverever, hold up, never mind" mean for Axel? Is he saying that Axel isn't going after KCC strongly enough for it to be a real read? Is he saying he expects Axel to back off later? I can see tom saying Sloth seems carefree, but the main difference in Sloth's post style in this game is from feedback about his last scum game /that I gave him/, and tom knows that. Sloth definitely isn't "grieving" being away from the thread, that doesn't make any sense. I don't the lost thing at all, but that probably because I don't know lost. Why is tom's song there so long? Is he just having fun dissing lost? Is he saying anything game related? I don't get how you thought Tom is saying Nacho's wants understanding, that seems like your reads of Nacho. I'm seeing Tom saying that Nacho seems anxious, since that's word that kept popping up in the rap. Or maybe he's calling Nacho paranoid, and that's towny, because of the "Sometimes I let my demons get ahold me," but that's my read of Nacho that I'm just attributing to Tom. How is tom saying silver is being emotional? Where is he saying that's Silver's town meta? Is that something you guys talked about before, or again is that just your thought that you think Tom is also having? I assume he's saying Gemma is solving, because it starts with the word "solving" but is "To escape from that distasteful state of hate, deceit, and evil" saying that she's seems to be a better mood than when she was last scum?
Do you see the problem here? I have thoughts about the players in the game, and as long as something in tom's posts could be interpreted as being similar to those thoughts, he gets to have me thinking we're on the same page, even though there's no actual evidence he's thinking anything close to what I'm thinking? And both of us saying all of this is bad, because now he has all these ideas to retroactively justify his reads. How do you know your interpretation is correct and not just what you want to see?
B is my favorite. Don't tell C.
Sorry, who's your brother?
Oh, yeah, it's definitely not set in stone, there's tons of exceptions, but I think it's truer than not on average
Oh, I get what you're saying. I could maybe see that, but that's not what it felt like to me. And I really liked the progression there, especially now that it's been explained more
I don't really play that way. And even if I did, I don't have many reads yet, kinda struggling just keeping up.
I do like you so far. I cautiously like vaimes and rhand and a bit Tom. I'm okay with Vez pressure. I'm about to vote fulcrum in a minute
And why would anyone want to? I'm excited to see this type of Tom posting I've heard so much about
This is ugly smearing. Tom's post are pretty straightforward, certainly more so than how this tries to make it sound. This feels over the top even from someone who doesn't like it
unvote vote fulcrum
his posts arent that great, and they arent that bad
everyone just feels like they are shading him, or white-knighting him, and IDK how I feel about it
They are not. I've seen tom be straight forward and play the game. This isn't it.
I ignored a lot of things. Your vote mostly didn't phase me.
I like fulcrum more and more. I don't know why she'd try to provide so many reasonable propositions for why I acted the way I did if she was scum.
KCC voting fulcrum feels ???? I don't feel like that post is smearing tom. Fulcrum is asking a question to another person and not really attacking tom. I also agree that tom's gimmick makes his post unreadable. I skipped all of them simply because I have no idea what he is trying to say in them. I only read the bolded parts. Don't feel like tom's scum though. He does these gimmicks all the time and drops them when stuff becomes serious.
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Uhh,I could have been trying to pocket you? Have you never been pocketed?