Not voting yet but announcing intention to vote KCC.
@Fulcrun I still feel like that post is proving my point? Idk you do you but the progression from that to me being afraid of your scum game is pretty straightforward. But I'm kind of over talking about it because you clearly disagree and it's not like it's your entire read anyway.
I will say that part of me is worried about doing this on Nachos word because there have been some awful hidden cc's in my recent games but Nacho is probably reliable.
I will say that part of me is worried about doing this on Nachos word because there have been some awful hidden cc's in my recent games but Nacho is probably reliable.
i mean there is that, and the fact that KCC's claim is super wolfy (like really wolfy)
If I don't set aside time for writing songs I go insane
The stuff that's left unsaid just turns to static in my brain
It's hard to get things done when my head is full of craziness
Its when I am the busiest that I seem the laziest
I'm sending off my monkeys on the backs of the pink elephants
So it doesn't matter if my lyrics are irrelevant
Tossing out my thoughts like handfuls of confetti
Add a little strummy strum and I feel better already
And yes I know KCC isn't really close to hammer but without automatic vote counts I don't want to risk it.
Writing out how I feel about this mostly for my own benefit - I trust Nacho more than I trust Kitty in general, Kitty's claimed role is honestly pretty powerful as a wolf, but I also have trouble wrapping my head around why Nacho would choose to do this if he is a wolf and she is a villager. Like, KCC has been losing a little bit of traction recently, but I feel like she is definitely mislynchable without going this far - he could've just chosen to hammer home his cases, push KCC's claim as wolf-indicative, etc. and just pretend to eat crow next phase. But with what he's done, after she flips, he's just dying within the next cycle. And he'd be one of the most engaged wolves in any team, why not have anyone else on the team CC her.
Them being w/w would require one of his most prominent pushes to have been a buddy... of course, if he's going for the hard bus with this, here, that's not out of the question (just in the abstract, without looking at how they've interacted.) But this scenario isn't something I'd really consider unless and until he's alive late.
And if Nacho's a villager, he's saying KCC's really likely to be a wolf based on his role.
Actually just had a brainwave and I think KCC's role makes a lot of sense from a design perspective as town in a game with masons. It's a lot of (theoretical) town power concentrated in a role that doesn't use night actions at all. It obviously depends on what else there is so it's not conclusive but it does make sense.
Grapefruit, could you reword this second sentence? I'm having trouble parsing it.
Nacho, if KCC does flip mafia, could you please reassess at least a little on fulcrum. I don't want to foment paranoia, and I'm not saying you should jump into a scumread, but I think she has several things tying her to KCC and dk (and to tom to a lesser extent) and I think your super strong townread on her is a little reckless.
Wrt KCC, the way that KCC poked fulcrum then immediately backed off when fulcrum explained herself makes more sense to me as distancing than KCC poking a villager. She doesn't get anything out of that exchange in a mafia KCC / town fulcrum world. I also think fulcrum's general effort to not lynch KCC, particularly 1479 which is both wishy-washy and protective of KCC, is exactly how she handles KCC in this gamestate when they're partners.
Wrt dk, I think fulcrum's placement of dk in her readlist in 895 is exactly where she puts him if they're together, and I don't think that level of townread vibes with what dk had put into thread in relation to her other reads. Their interaction in 324 felt a little showy. Add in fulcrum's defense of dk in 1479 and her treatment of him overall, I think she's overly generous to him without ending up at a solid townread in a way that doesn't feel genuine and overly focused on defending him rather than explaining her own townread on him.
Wrt tom, and this is pretty nebulous, I think scum!fulcrum is less likely to bother giving town!tom such a careful and detailed townread, but does want to give it to scum!tom.
I don't remember who townread him off "Silver fanning the flames on Mindreaver = sneaky no trust" or maybe I'm just making that up? But he also had Mindreaver as scummy so I'm not sure how that fits together. Like, he said that Silver was suspicious for avoiding responsibility for lynching Mindreaver by saying "we should get this over with" with the "we", but if he thinks Mind is scummy, I don't understand why avoiding responsibility for the lynch is a bad thing - it's only a bad thing after Mindreaver flips town.
That was me, sort of, it's more to do with being used to people thinking my tone is weird and his whole progression on me felt like he was doing that and using my handling of the mindreaver wagon to justify why he thought I felt weird.
I was gonna say I think you're projecting this idea that town who scumread you think your tone is weird onto the actual read he made, but his elaboration on it later was actually pretty founded on your wording and it "sounding wrong". I obviously can't speak to your meta, though, and the fact that the substance of his read on you doesn't really match with his read on my slot still bothers me.
idk I mean, I vibe with the idea of the not w/w read Nacho made on Axel/KCC, which is in his favor too. But also, I don't really feel like solving for aligns/antialigns before a flip just because days are so long
Now, I am ******* tired, but a few thoughts based on this fresh revelation (and some other things):
Keldeo and Axelrod go up up up in towncred with this flip. More Keldeo than Axelrod, but Keldeo was the only person that KCC pushed in any significant way and I'm fairly confident that she wouldn't do that "haha I have a scummy role" and then proceed to push no one but her partner. Wrt Axelrod, I think if he was scum then the day probably would have turned out differently than "bus partner for 70% of the day then when she's actually get lynched wring my hands and do nothing".
Vaimes and DK both lose a bit of stock. With DK, don't know who pointed it out, but KCC not jumping on him is a very odd move if she's scum here - unless they're partners. Vaimes is one that I'm more conflicted about because I know there's bias there (still hate his push on me, surprise, surprise), but him dismissing the cases on both KCC and DK and using that as a reason to ignore the wagons is terrible.
That was me, so I understand the thrust of the read on dk. But if KCC and dk are partners, what are the other wolves doing? Just twiddling their thumbs letting two wolves get run up as the wagons for the day?
I know there are people pushing against both as wagons - like Vaimes, as you mention. But the prominent presence of both wagons for what seems like a good amount of the day makes me hmm.
I don't really think I'm getting much more out of a dk ISO, in a vacuum, outside of him seeming as reasonable, measured, low-impact as he did while I was catching up.
It's worth noting that KCC's vague townread on him ("kind of liking" his posts in ISO) doesn't actually go anywhere material after being mentioned. So I don't think that makes that w/w motivated necessarily. She continues to shade him, and of course votes him.
From dk's side of things these mildly make me think not partners:
I should have posted a V/LA earlier in the week. We hosted Thanksgiving dinner last night, so I've got a bunch of cleanup to do today and then I'm hosting my annual bourbon tasting party tonight. I should have free time on Sunday so I'll actually dig into everything that has happened since vezok's claim then.
Unvote
Vote KCC
Looks like Mindreaver is gonna be replaced, so I'm going to park my vote here for now. I think it's very likely that exactly one of the rush votes after I posted my case on vezok came from scum, and KCC's is the most dubious when coupled with earlier play.
I have thought Killjoy was scum the last two games I played with him (I think) and been wrong both times. I am not getting a scummy feeling from him this game yet.
So, are you getting better, Killjoy, or is this scum you?
KJ has been taking steps to improve his town game since Modern, and it's been working well
This is town kj
I'm not sure I can properly articulate it, but this just feels weird. Modern wasn't that long ago, and I do acknowledge that KCC was scum in the micro where they offed Killjoy N1, but... this post still has a buddying vibe.
Also, I've now got an annoying tingle in the back of my mind that this might be scum!KCC warning teammate Axelrod off a bad lynch. I think I need to review Axelrod's needling of her and see if I think it's all for appearances.
Why single out a partner to vote into contention over any of the other options, like just making a PTAP and not moving his vote?
And the second post just feels a little too TMIy/revealing if they are partners - like, he could have made some throwaway comment or just not singled out anything from her ISO. He had another post where he called KCC/me w/v, is he just that kind of wolf?
I think Nacho is town regardless of KCC's alignment. Burning all of his hard earned towncred and killing his endgame potential to get KCC of all people lynched on day 1 is the stupidest move Nacho could make as a wolf, and Nacho isn't stupid.
Actually just had a brainwave and I think KCC's role makes a lot of sense from a design perspective as town in a game with masons. It's a lot of (theoretical) town power concentrated in a role that doesn't use night actions at all. It obviously depends on what else there is so it's not conclusive but it does make sense.
Grapefruit, could you reword this second sentence? I'm having trouble parsing it.
I meant that a roleblock that doesn't hit NK's makes more sense in a town that has masons. They are usually a huge part of any power budget and don't use night actions at all. There is something slightly elegant to having a scummy RB in a town that isn't hurt by it as badly as an average town would be.
But without knowing the full set up this is pure speculation.
I think Nacho is town regardless of KCC's alignment. Burning all of his hard earned towncred and killing his endgame potential to get KCC of all people lynched on day 1 is the stupidest move Nacho could make as a wolf, and Nacho isn't stupid.
But then things like this make me rethink Nacho.
Personally, I don’t trust that the roles aren’t both town when you consider it’s a specialty setup and the mod is probably going to have some overlap. And in the world where they are both town, that’s a really big waste.
idk, depending on [redacted], I’ll vote slash silently support the KCC wagon, but I can’t say I have any faith in her flipping scum.
Am in the same boat, and I probably wouldn't have advised Nacho to counterclaim if I had a say in it but he did, so this is where we're at now. Don't think we realistically have enough time before deadline to entertain other options regardless.
KCC's role and my role do not both exist as town. KCC is scum and needs to be lynched.
Well that's spicy.
I've got no idea about Nacho's ability to suss out what roles could and could not exist in the same Town, though. I will be giving you the if KCC flips Town, and then I don't see the clear line from your role to this claim.
But, coupling this with what just looks like lackluster overall effort from KCC (vs what I believe KCC is capable of), then I think this is where my vote is going to end up.
I'm also interested in what Fulcrum is saying about GF. If Fulcrum hasn't rolled scum in a long time, and GF hasn't played with her(?) as scum, where is the fear coming from exactly? And then, there was the fact GF didn't respond to it at first. Ignored Fulcrum's comment until specifically asked by someone else about it.
Not voting yet but announcing intention to vote KCC.
@Fulcrun I still feel like that post is proving my point? Idk you do you but the progression from that to me being afraid of your scum game is pretty straightforward. But I'm kind of over talking about it because you clearly disagree and it's not like it's your entire read anyway.
It's a lot of "other game" stuff, but what was this progression again? Have you ever played with a scum-Fulcrum, even years ago? Did you read an old scum-Fulcrum game?
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Yeah, I dunno, I wouldn't bet on there being no overlap between roles. If it's almost ability-for-ability then maybe but without Nacho's actual claim it's hard to assess (not ~sure~ Nacho should actually claim since KCC lunch seems inevitable due to inertia/deadline)
But I vaguely remember Arkham Horror having two roles that remove items from the game, for example, and the "item vaulter" CC'd the "item destroyer" on that basis but they were both town lol
KCC reponse to the CC is as scummy as possible. That is simply not how town reacts.
vote kcc
If kcc flips scum which I'm pretty sure about, Axelrod shoots up to really town. There's no way he pushes his buddy to claim such an incredibly scummy role for no gain.
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This is a gentle reminder for those who have played with me and those who haven't that I have played this game for over a decade
Nothing on your skill/experience but you said you looked at DV's last set-up, which was Arkham, and I distinctly remember a similar scenario happening D1 in that game and both roles were town and you didn't mention it but I thought it might be relevant.
If you don't think it is, that's fine I guess, like I said hard to judge without seeing your role and knowing why you think it's a CC, but it's... well, a thing worth bearing in mind.
One more question: Does DV try to include symmetry in roles(i.e. scum roles having similar mechanics to town roles)?
Are you counterclaiming?
I’m going to be really vl/a for a week
Not directly, no.
Let's leave it at that.
@Nacho: what do you think about this?
The implications of that exchange seemed to be that the mechanics of fulcrum's role were different from Kitty's. I'm not entirely sure that it's something worth exploring at the moment unless you're asking me if this is the elusive double counterclaim in which case no it is not.
Like I'm pretty sure Iso botched a CC as town that game too, on the same role no less, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't just automatically trust CCs in specialties even when the player is really experienced
Actually just had a brainwave and I think KCC's role makes a lot of sense from a design perspective as town in a game with masons. It's a lot of (theoretical) town power concentrated in a role that doesn't use night actions at all. It obviously depends on what else there is so it's not conclusive but it does make sense.
Vote: DK
I'm still not really feeling it, but I'm feeling it more than Vaimes so *shrug*
Can people please join my ex-vote on tom?
This is a super sketchy vote. Grape, you've called me a town lean multiple times, but then you jump on me while following it up with "oh hey, really want to lynch Tom tho". Why not vote Tom and try to convince people you're onto something rather than shrug? The deadline was two full days away at that point.
I should have posted a V/LA earlier in the week. We hosted Thanksgiving dinner last night, so I've got a bunch of cleanup to do today and then I'm hosting my annual bourbon tasting party tonight. I should have free time on Sunday so I'll actually dig into everything that has happened since vezok's claim then.
Unvote
Vote KCC
Looks like Mindreaver is gonna be replaced, so I'm going to park my vote here for now. I think it's very likely that exactly one of the rush votes after I posted my case on vezok came from scum, and KCC's is the most dubious when coupled with earlier play.
I have thought Killjoy was scum the last two games I played with him (I think) and been wrong both times. I am not getting a scummy feeling from him this game yet.
So, are you getting better, Killjoy, or is this scum you?
KJ has been taking steps to improve his town game since Modern, and it's been working well
This is town kj
I'm not sure I can properly articulate it, but this just feels weird. Modern wasn't that long ago, and I do acknowledge that KCC was scum in the micro where they offed Killjoy N1, but... this post still has a buddying vibe.
Also, I've now got an annoying tingle in the back of my mind that this might be scum!KCC warning teammate Axelrod off a bad lynch. I think I need to review Axelrod's needling of her and see if I think it's all for appearances.
Why single out a partner to vote into contention over any of the other options, like just making a PTAP and not moving his vote?
And the second post just feels a little too TMIy/revealing if they are partners - like, he could have made some throwaway comment or just not singled out anything from her ISO. He had another post where he called KCC/me w/v, is he just that kind of wolf?
Yeah, I dunno, I wouldn't bet on there being no overlap between roles. If it's almost ability-for-ability then maybe but without Nacho's actual claim it's hard to assess (not ~sure~ Nacho should actually claim since KCC lunch seems inevitable due to inertia/deadline)
But I vaguely remember Arkham Horror having two roles that remove items from the game, for example, and the "item vaulter" CC'd the "item destroyer" on that basis but they were both town lol
Like I'm pretty sure Iso botched a CC as town that game too, on the same role no less, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't just automatically trust CCs in specialties even when the player is really experienced
That's not really the same thing? Like it makes plenty of sense for there to be overlap on abilities that directly interact with the game's central mechanic. But that's not what this is. Side note: it's funny you brought up Iso, because I have a similar instance in a game years ago when he CC'ed me when we were both town (Drury Lane Mafia, if you want to take a trip in the way back machine).
Not to mention that KCC's claim is literally all disruption. In a town/town world where Nacho is claiming similar or identical roles, that creates a ton of potential for townies to **** over teammates and just feels wrong.
That's not really the same thing? Like it makes plenty of sense for there to be overlap on abilities that directly interact with the game's central mechanic. But that's not what this is. Side note: it's funny you brought up Iso, because I have a similar instance in a game years ago when he CC'ed me when we were both town (Drury Lane Mafia, if you want to take a trip in the way back machine).
Not to mention that KCC's claim is literally all disruption. In a town/town world where Nacho is claiming similar or identical roles, that creates a ton of potential for townies to **** over teammates and just feels wrong.
I'm headed to work soon. I probably won't be back for a really long time because extended shift + long commute means that I'm probably going to be dead to the world so if you want me to address things make it BIG AND BOLD but really I'm hoping the day will be done by the time I get back.
Vezok
Last/Gemma
Asta/Silver
Keldeo/Killjoy
Vaimes/fulcrum/Axel/Rhand
[null]Grape
tom
DK/Jack
KCC
Is probably where I'm at? Like maybe Killjoy can drop to the next group down because he's not necessarily anything more than a "tone/presence" read whereas everyone else above him has more substantive reasons for being town, but that's the group I'm probably looking at trying to solidify reads on tomorrow. If we have a vig who could pew pew pew the Jackrito slot that would be swell, don't rly want to waste a lynch there but holy **** does the slot need to die.
That was me, so I understand the thrust of the read on dk. But if KCC and dk are partners, what are the other wolves doing? Just twiddling their thumbs letting two wolves get run up as the wagons for the day?
I know there are people pushing against both as wagons - like Vaimes, as you mention. But the prominent presence of both wagons for what seems like a good amount of the day makes me hmm.
I think your criticisms of my thoughts on DK being scum are well-founded, I'm definitely starting to see a world where he's town.
I'm just kind of lost as to alternatives. I do think the "what are scum doing? just sitting on their hands?" piece is a dangerous line of thought - it's really hard to change momentum as scum in a slow game like this especially when there aren't good alternatives.
Like if Tom is scum he did press grapefruit but his gimmick tied his hands more than usual.
Otherwise, I don't really know who was in position to push back other than Gemma & Last and those two players deserve the win if they're scum at this point?
Vezok
Last/Gemma
Asta/Silver
Keldeo/Killjoy
Vaimes/fulcrum/Axel/Rhand
[null]Grape
tom
DK/Jack
KCC
Is probably where I'm at? Like maybe Killjoy can drop to the next group down because he's not necessarily anything more than a "tone/presence" read whereas everyone else above him has more substantive reasons for being town, but that's the group I'm probably looking at trying to solidify reads on tomorrow. If we have a vig who could pew pew pew the Jackrito slot that would be swell, don't rly want to waste a lynch there but holy **** does the slot need to die.
You're wrong on jackrito slot. The slot is town and is not my mason buddy, but I am about 95% sure on that read.
You're also wrong on others so I suggest you reasses your reads heavily.
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tom you can be V/LA all you'd like but there's only one vote to make here
... ...
kcc/grape w/w anyway
KCC (6) - dkings, gemma, nacho, keldeo, last, tom
Dkings (4) - silver, Asta, KCC, grape
grape (2) - Rhand, fulcrum
axel (2) - Vaimes, Killjoy
Not Voting(3) - Jackrito, axel, vez
@Fulcrun I still feel like that post is proving my point? Idk you do you but the progression from that to me being afraid of your scum game is pretty straightforward. But I'm kind of over talking about it because you clearly disagree and it's not like it's your entire read anyway.
Bro, you ****ed up.
@Nacho: what do you think about this?
No hammer please, after I leave tonight I don't think I can be back until a couple hours before EOD.
The stuff that's left unsaid just turns to static in my brain
It's hard to get things done when my head is full of craziness
Its when I am the busiest that I seem the laziest
So it doesn't matter if my lyrics are irrelevant
Tossing out my thoughts like handfuls of confetti
Add a little strummy strum and I feel better already
Writing out how I feel about this mostly for my own benefit - I trust Nacho more than I trust Kitty in general, Kitty's claimed role is honestly pretty powerful as a wolf, but I also have trouble wrapping my head around why Nacho would choose to do this if he is a wolf and she is a villager. Like, KCC has been losing a little bit of traction recently, but I feel like she is definitely mislynchable without going this far - he could've just chosen to hammer home his cases, push KCC's claim as wolf-indicative, etc. and just pretend to eat crow next phase. But with what he's done, after she flips, he's just dying within the next cycle. And he'd be one of the most engaged wolves in any team, why not have anyone else on the team CC her.
Them being w/w would require one of his most prominent pushes to have been a buddy... of course, if he's going for the hard bus with this, here, that's not out of the question (just in the abstract, without looking at how they've interacted.) But this scenario isn't something I'd really consider unless and until he's alive late.
And if Nacho's a villager, he's saying KCC's really likely to be a wolf based on his role.
Grapefruit, could you reword this second sentence? I'm having trouble parsing it.
L-5
Wrt KCC, the way that KCC poked fulcrum then immediately backed off when fulcrum explained herself makes more sense to me as distancing than KCC poking a villager. She doesn't get anything out of that exchange in a mafia KCC / town fulcrum world. I also think fulcrum's general effort to not lynch KCC, particularly 1479 which is both wishy-washy and protective of KCC, is exactly how she handles KCC in this gamestate when they're partners.
Wrt dk, I think fulcrum's placement of dk in her readlist in 895 is exactly where she puts him if they're together, and I don't think that level of townread vibes with what dk had put into thread in relation to her other reads. Their interaction in 324 felt a little showy. Add in fulcrum's defense of dk in 1479 and her treatment of him overall, I think she's overly generous to him without ending up at a solid townread in a way that doesn't feel genuine and overly focused on defending him rather than explaining her own townread on him.
Wrt tom, and this is pretty nebulous, I think scum!fulcrum is less likely to bother giving town!tom such a careful and detailed townread, but does want to give it to scum!tom.
idk I mean, I vibe with the idea of the not w/w read Nacho made on Axel/KCC, which is in his favor too. But also, I don't really feel like solving for aligns/antialigns before a flip just because days are so long
That was me, so I understand the thrust of the read on dk. But if KCC and dk are partners, what are the other wolves doing? Just twiddling their thumbs letting two wolves get run up as the wagons for the day?
I know there are people pushing against both as wagons - like Vaimes, as you mention. But the prominent presence of both wagons for what seems like a good amount of the day makes me hmm.
It's worth noting that KCC's vague townread on him ("kind of liking" his posts in ISO) doesn't actually go anywhere material after being mentioned. So I don't think that makes that w/w motivated necessarily. She continues to shade him, and of course votes him.
From dk's side of things these mildly make me think not partners:
Why single out a partner to vote into contention over any of the other options, like just making a PTAP and not moving his vote?
Vaimes(3) - fulcrum, tom, Wisp
KittyCupCake(2) - Nachomamma8, Gemma
vezokpiraka(2) - dkingsland967, Keldeo
Dkingsland967(1) - Asta
Rhand(1) - Killjoy
Not Voting(3) - Grapefruit21, Jackrito, Rhand, Axel
And the second post just feels a little too TMIy/revealing if they are partners - like, he could have made some throwaway comment or just not singled out anything from her ISO. He had another post where he called KCC/me w/v, is he just that kind of wolf?
I'll be around close to the deadline, but probably not that much tomorrow.
Nacho
Last
Asta/Killjoy
Keldeo/Silver
Vaimes/fulcrum
Jack/Axel [null]
Rhand/tom/Grape
KCC/dk
-
-
-
Vote: KCC
L-4
Putting my legacy in a spoiler so I don't overwhelm people with all the words.
Lol
You should claim now, since you're going to need to immediately D2 anyway
I meant that a roleblock that doesn't hit NK's makes more sense in a town that has masons. They are usually a huge part of any power budget and don't use night actions at all. There is something slightly elegant to having a scummy RB in a town that isn't hurt by it as badly as an average town would be.
But without knowing the full set up this is pure speculation.
Personally, I don’t trust that the roles aren’t both town when you consider it’s a specialty setup and the mod is probably going to have some overlap. And in the world where they are both town, that’s a really big waste.
idk, depending on [redacted], I’ll vote slash silently support the KCC wagon, but I can’t say I have any faith in her flipping scum.
I've got no idea about Nacho's ability to suss out what roles could and could not exist in the same Town, though. I will be giving you the if KCC flips Town, and then I don't see the clear line from your role to this claim.
But, coupling this with what just looks like lackluster overall effort from KCC (vs what I believe KCC is capable of), then I think this is where my vote is going to end up.
I'm also interested in what Fulcrum is saying about GF. If Fulcrum hasn't rolled scum in a long time, and GF hasn't played with her(?) as scum, where is the fear coming from exactly? And then, there was the fact GF didn't respond to it at first. Ignored Fulcrum's comment until specifically asked by someone else about it.
It's a lot of "other game" stuff, but what was this progression again? Have you ever played with a scum-Fulcrum, even years ago? Did you read an old scum-Fulcrum game?
But I vaguely remember Arkham Horror having two roles that remove items from the game, for example, and the "item vaulter" CC'd the "item destroyer" on that basis but they were both town lol
KCC reponse to the CC is as scummy as possible. That is simply not how town reacts.
vote kcc
If kcc flips scum which I'm pretty sure about, Axelrod shoots up to really town. There's no way he pushes his buddy to claim such an incredibly scummy role for no gain.
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D2 is going to be ugly if this isn't on the table now
I'm not actually suggesting I'm not the lynch here, because I'd almost certainly be on this wagon too, but
Whatever, good luck, have fun, I'll be enjoying this slow motion train wreck from spec chat
I'm still town. KCC is still scum.
Gemma, I'll absolutely reassess fulcrum tomorrow if I am still alive.
This is a gentle reminder for those who have played with me and those who haven't that I have played this game for over a decade
If you don't think it is, that's fine I guess, like I said hard to judge without seeing your role and knowing why you think it's a CC, but it's... well, a thing worth bearing in mind.
I’m ready for Day to end, but I think Keldeo + someone else requested no hammer quite yet.
The implications of that exchange seemed to be that the mechanics of fulcrum's role were different from Kitty's. I'm not entirely sure that it's something worth exploring at the moment unless you're asking me if this is the elusive double counterclaim in which case no it is not.
Back. Off.
@Gemma, I'm allowed to be wrong, love.
This is a super sketchy vote. Grape, you've called me a town lean multiple times, but then you jump on me while following it up with "oh hey, really want to lynch Tom tho". Why not vote Tom and try to convince people you're onto something rather than shrug? The deadline was two full days away at that point.
This guy is smart!
That's not really the same thing? Like it makes plenty of sense for there to be overlap on abilities that directly interact with the game's central mechanic. But that's not what this is. Side note: it's funny you brought up Iso, because I have a similar instance in a game years ago when he CC'ed me when we were both town (Drury Lane Mafia, if you want to take a trip in the way back machine).
Not to mention that KCC's claim is literally all disruption. In a town/town world where Nacho is claiming similar or identical roles, that creates a ton of potential for townies to **** over teammates and just feels wrong.
I'm headed to work soon. I probably won't be back for a really long time because extended shift + long commute means that I'm probably going to be dead to the world so if you want me to address things make it BIG AND BOLD but really I'm hoping the day will be done by the time I get back.
Last/Gemma
Asta/Silver
Keldeo/Killjoy
Vaimes/fulcrum/Axel/Rhand
[null]Grape
tom
DK/Jack
KCC
Is probably where I'm at? Like maybe Killjoy can drop to the next group down because he's not necessarily anything more than a "tone/presence" read whereas everyone else above him has more substantive reasons for being town, but that's the group I'm probably looking at trying to solidify reads on tomorrow. If we have a vig who could pew pew pew the Jackrito slot that would be swell, don't rly want to waste a lynch there but holy **** does the slot need to die.
I think your criticisms of my thoughts on DK being scum are well-founded, I'm definitely starting to see a world where he's town.
I'm just kind of lost as to alternatives. I do think the "what are scum doing? just sitting on their hands?" piece is a dangerous line of thought - it's really hard to change momentum as scum in a slow game like this especially when there aren't good alternatives.
Like if Tom is scum he did press grapefruit but his gimmick tied his hands more than usual.
Otherwise, I don't really know who was in position to push back other than Gemma & Last and those two players deserve the win if they're scum at this point?
You're wrong on jackrito slot. The slot is town and is not my mason buddy, but I am about 95% sure on that read.
You're also wrong on others so I suggest you reasses your reads heavily.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
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