Silver: the other guy that wants to be the big dick :). You I was leaning town on until you went and voted rhand, now I'm just nullish on you. What was up with that? Your reasoning, iirc, was that he just feels off? Suspect my friend, especially because:
Rhand: we mindmelded quite a bit on vez's entrance. I like that he stood up for Nacho, because the push there was justified but misguided. So solid townread at the moment, which is frickin bizzare because we're usually trying to kill each other.
This is like, phrased as a question but it reads like a statement so I'm not sure if you don't understand what I said about Rhand or not~ really the whole thing reads kind of weirdly to me.
Think it's the part where you townread Rhand for defending Nacho because you thought Nacho's push was "justified but misguided" and I'm having trouble squaring that perception of Nacho's push and these two reads. Could you rephrase?
I think you should start spelling her name with one "l". Fu-l-crum. Fulcrum.
I thought she was being a tiny bit two-faced, first in her interaction with Nacho by eating away at his Silver townread, then in her assessment of Nacho as "having reads in his mind already", which I think is a believable reaction to some of his earliest posts but not so much to his later posts, which I think should have changed her take on him. What are your thoughts?
That's roughly what *I* was going to say, it felt like fulcrum was leading Nacho into a wolf read on me... but I'm not actually as sure now, seems like she's actually suspicious of Nacho and trying to get into his head maybe? Dk feels okay in the fulcrum back-and-forth. Both of them do, really, but I'm not sure how to sort fulcrum yet.
Last is focusing on stuff Vaimes does in a very like, meta sense and not even trying to apply it to what Vaimes is doing this game it feels like. A lot of talking about what Vaimes always does but no like... substance. This isn't a wolf read, exactly, I don't know what it is really.
Nacho's big posts feel okay too, I'll try to circle back to them when I have time to.
Ok I don't have all the time in the world. I'm gonna respond to Nacho now, then play catchup till my next day off when I can fully catch up.
I will say I noticed fulcrum's response re: Gemma. @Fulcrum: Do you see specific reasoning that Gemma doesn't want to sort Nacho yet, or is that just a plausible theory from your experience with her? Is that probably true or maybe true?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Ok I don't have all the time in the world. I'm gonna respond to Nacho now, then play catchup till my next day off when I can fully catch up.
I will say I noticed fulcrum's response re: Gemma. @Fulcrum: Do you see specific reasoning that Gemma doesn't want to sort Nacho yet, or is that just a plausible theory from your experience with her? Is that probably true or maybe true?
I don't have her specific reasoning, that's my assumption of what's she doing based on my experience with her (which is pretty significant, lol).
@Tom
At least I got your town read to keep me going
@silver
Well the whole vaimes is never a day 1 Lynch is a thing, his questions and general tone looks townie, but it's nothing he couldn't fake for at least one day phase. That's my read there
I'm kind of actually angry about the tom thing, and that's not a healthy response, so I'm going to give myself a break from this for a bit. Ping me if you need me (there are pings, right?).
I like fulcrum more and more. I don't know why she'd try to provide so many reasonable propositions for why I acted the way I did if she was scum.
Uhh,I could have been trying to pocket you? Have you never been pocketed?
That would be a very poor decision on your part, if you were scum. I'm usually mislynched quickly barring the times where I claim something that can save me.
And even so, the way you approached that seemed to come from a town mindset of exploring all possibilities and not a scum mindset of pocketing. It reminded me a lot of Cantrip's thoughts in Eurovision Mafia where he was town. Also Axelrod's final walls in Modern Mafia.
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Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
I'm kind of actually angry about the tom thing, and that's not a healthy response, so I'm going to give myself a break from this for a bit. Ping me if you need me (there are pings, right?).
There are not. Well, you can enable notification for replies and quotes in your account settings to get an email when someone quotes or replies to you, I think. That's all we have though lol.
I noticed that you think that you know *****
All this shade that's comin at me, I wonder who throws it
They can't see the vision, boy, they must be out of focus
That's a real hot album, homie, I wonder who wrote it (oh, *****)
@silver
Well the whole vaimes is never a day 1 Lynch is a thing, his questions and general tone looks townie, but it's nothing he couldn't fake for at least one day phase. That's my read there
I mean. On the one hand, yes, he's capable of looking like his town self for a while and I dislike the idea of taking anyone off the table as the D1 lunch before the game even starts. But like, we can't really lunch him D1 just because he "might" be a wolf either.
It's a thing I wrestle with constantly and not just with Vaimes.
@Killjoy: I explained to Silver why I challenged his Asta questioning earlier in this post, let me know if you can't find it. The "Vaimes should feel silly" post was because he seemed to be attacking me for being nitpicky in the early game. I also expanded a bit more on the reasons why the LW push on me bothered me, but here we go again - I didn't think that his criticism of my post was accurate because I wasn't speculating on anything (unless we have different definitions of the word) and I don't think I was hedging considering I was pointing out something Silver did that I thought was scummy and I was calling for someone to claim. As a result, seemed like he wasn't really reading my post and instead just wanted to fuel Vaimes's push against me. I didn't like that he didn't engage with anything I posted afterwards because it would have been a good chance for him to solidify a read since I was clearly around and because I felt if that observation/read was something he cared about (as opposed to the alternative of just setting himself up to vote for me later), he would have made the effort to engage.
So you keep trying to get Vaimes to back off. Is there a reason he shouldn't be scumreading you? Does it feel forced? I assume from context of you not really engaging him on the subject that you don't think it's scummy, so why not?
Fulcrum: Hi. Been a while.
So, I need some insight into Gemma. I feel like she doesn't need to sort Nacho, and she isn't really engaging me on that.
Also actually, some insight into Nacho would be good too. He seems to be doing this thing where he's trying to get Vaimes to stop scumreading him passive-aggressively and I'm scumreading it quite a bit.
Also they got rid of dark theme when Curse bought us I think. It's not there anymore.
Hey Killjoy! RIP the dark theme, guess I'll just destroy my eyes.
For Gemma, I think there's a distinction between her not needing to sort Nacho and her not being /ready/ to sort Nacho. At a guess, she doesn't want to share her meta, because she wants to mull it over without Nacho seeing and adjusting to it. Try engaging her on something else?
For Nacho, the bit where he's like "it's my first game back, don't lynch me" (or whatever) is playing Vaimes' feelings in an ick way, yeah. I can't offer you much insight, I don't know him well. I don't know if he's the kind of person who gets manipulative as town.
I also don't get his thought process here. Feels like he's jumping for reads without having anything to land on. Or like he has reads in mind already, and is finding reasons to justify them.
Is vezok's "I didn't have questions to ask to clarify what was said because my mind was already made," a normal thought process for them?
Another couple notes here: Yeah I get not wanting to share secret meta. I had that on Rhand before. So I get that. That wasn't my issue. But I'm gonna try coming at her from a different angle.
re: Nacho: IDK about town, my only experience with him as scum is JPA2 where he made me look like his scumbuddy (he never flipped so it never bore fruit, but I'm pretty sure it was his idea in the scumchat) so, at least he's pretty manipulative as scum.
re: Vez: I don't think that process is outside of her typical demeanor. I've always found her pointed vocabulary odd and scummy though.
Maybe fore some context, look at Eurovision (scum) and ...Modern? (town) It could have also been GoT or DitF. She was town in a recent game I played and I can't remember what game that was. Check ISOs I guess to see if she posted in the thread.
Your assumption that Gemma should be engaging with me more in these early pages to figure out my alignment is misguided. I've been playing mafia for over a decade and prefer playing scum. Doesn't mean that I'm impossible to catch and doesn't mean that I don't have my tells, but it does mean I have a fairly large range as either alignment, and, as a result, expecting someone to figure me out in 20 posts is kind of unreasonable. When she's ready to give a read, she will - it's just something that probably won't happen early day 1.
Why are you bothered by her not giving a read on me but not by me not giving a read on her?
I'm not expecting her to have you solved. I'm saying she's not trying. She's asked you a few clarifying questions, but would otherwise be relying on her (outdated maybe) secret meta for you. The point of my poking her on that front was to figure out how she was trying to read you, and came up empty. Per her view, she is capable, and maybe very liekly to get a decent read on you, but there was nothing in the way of her taking steps in that direction.
In response to your final question, I'll ask one of you: Do you feel you can read her well? I don't recall you making that claim.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
His general approach feels pure. I like that he's comfortable attacking the number of people that he has this game (he's thrown out shots at me, Tom, Vezok, M1ndreaver, Sloth, AND Axel) but also hasn't necessarily found a ton of stuff that he felt strong enough to stock to. I liked his tone in #187, is a pretty smooth reaction if scum there.
Recently, there's stuff like 343 as a genuine tom take or 354 as a good response to tom, also sort of like him ranting against Vaimes... think it's a weird move coming from LW-scum if Vaimes said that one of his scumtells on him was "criticizing [Vaimes] for posting too much".
It's a super lazy "read" that means nothing and is basically an excuse not to give an opinion on someone. I have seen scum use it, I feel like a lot (not "Tom" specifically, but, whoever they aren't giving their read on.)
I know Town people can say it too. But I would rather you say "I can't read Tom." Or "Tom will act however he wants to amuse himself regardless of alignment" if that's what you actually mean.
There seems to be a misunderstanding about what I said earlier. When I said my mind was made up, I meant in regards of the vote not on the read. I was going to vote nacho and watch reactions before I decided on other courses of action.
My action regarding nacho was to vote her and see what happens. I'm not the type of person who is good at asking questions that would clarify my read on that person.
Well, I'm just making a note here. That did not appear to be what you were saying.
About KCC: maybe I phrased it wrong. It should’ve been “a” townie thing to do instead of “the” townie thing to do. Not claiming anything is also townie.
It takes a certain personality type to prepare your claim as mafia on D1. LW, shadow, tom are some people here that I could see doing that. I haven’t seen KCC’s scum game for a long time, but I do know she plays the persons game over the mechanics game. She wouldn’t play the mechanics from D1 as either alignment. Which is exactly what preparing a claim is.
Most scum fakeclaim. They don’t go around preparing us for their scummy role D1.
KCC does tend to get ran up and she knows it. So her thinking about what would happen if she does and her having to claim that role then is perfectly normal.
Well, I guess I will take your word for all this, but I would not think that post outside her "scum" range in general.
Was there an answer KCC could’ve given you that would have triggered you to remove your vote?
Maybe? I don't know. If it was me, and I had thought about it to the point that I decided claiming the "scummy soundingness" of my role was the thing to do, I feel like I would have done it better. And I just know what she did say wasn't particularly persuasive. And then she didn't say anything else.
- I'm not seeing what others are seeing in Axelrod. Maybe it's because I agree with a lot of his points, but I don't see a malicious mindset in anything he's said. Maybe a little paranoid?
Hello, have you met my friend, Mr. Paranoia? He tends to hover next to me most games and whisper grand conspiracy theories in my ear.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
vote slothful -too lazy to come up with a reason right now though
Also, heads up for whenever I claim, my role is super scummy.
Vote: KCC
Might as well get it over with.
I spy with my little eye
A girlie I can get 'cause she don't get too many likes
A curly-headed cutie I can turn into my wife
Wait, that means foreverever, hold up, never mind
vote axel
He sees Axel going for KCC who is an easy mislynch and votes him for it.
pretend this spoiler has all of sloths posts where he *didnt* leave the thread. i dont feel like quoting.
Just to get to see an MC who breathes so freely
Ease over these beats and be so breezy
Turn on these beats, MC's don't see me
Believe me, BET and MTV
Are gonna grieve when we leave, dawg, fo' sheezy
Can't leave rap alone, the game needs me
sloth town
He says Sloth is carefree and feels real guilt for not being able to play as much as he wants.
Trust me, he is just the worst at board games
Debates about the rules like legislators at a court case
Tampers with the scales of justice
Wielding pencils as his gavel
Once I even caught him cheating while he kept the score in Scrabble
He's a ******* wreck at checkers
Plays Monopoly sloppily
Always bringing up disputes in games of trivial pursuit
Sucks at Battleship and Risk
He fights better hand-to-hand
And don't even get me started bout how trash he is at Candy Land
Like you can't... be bad at that that game yet... he loses all the time. It doesn't make any sense.
Last town
Last is misguided and flails a lot but he’s not trying to abuse the mechanics to win (which would be scum!last)
The beat breaks and your teeth break
Keep your canines embedded in my knuckles as a keepsake
It would seem your veneers just mere souvenirs
Falling out your mouth and on to the landscape vote fonti
Sometimes I let my ego get the best of me
Sometimes I wonder why my stress is stressing me
Sometimes I lay awake and I can't go to sleep
This is my introduction to anxiety
Sometimes I need someone to take control of me
Sometimes I let my demons get ahold me
Sometimes I think that ***** ain't what it used to be
This is my introduction to anxiety Nacho town
I love the thought of being with you
Or maybe it's the thought of not being so alone
Man, ****, I really love being in love
But I also really love not crying on the phone Silver town
Solving puzzles of the universe from jupiter to mars
Playing scientists to try and say we flew there in our cars
Like, "maybe it's not all bad, this scenic view's bizarre"
Watching hydrocarbon neptune snow dissolving from the stars
I never thought I'd say this, but frankly it's been peaceful
To escape from that distasteful state of hate, deceit, and evil gemma town
Nacho is longing for understanding
Silver is emotional, which probably is his town!meta according to tom
Gemma is genuinely trying to solve the game
@tom: If I misinterpret anything, please correct me. But I'm pretty sure this is what he's saying.
I'm seeing Tom saying that Nacho seems anxious, since that's word that kept popping up in the rap. Or maybe he's calling Nacho paranoid, and that's towny, because of the "Sometimes I let my demons get ahold me,"
, +I'm a little manic, I just wanna see your big smile
If you ain't ecstatic I feel like I blew it big time
M1ndreaver's 280 finds him going off the ranch in a couple of good ways. I like the thought that KCC's claim might be scummy because of mafia having daychat because it was a little tinfoily, and I like his minor suspicion of Silver due to his "mindmeld townread" of Rhand. I don't think his observations on vezok make a smoking gun because vezok and surface thoughts dripping with an obscene amount of conviction go together like macaroni and cheese.
Additionally @Mindreaver, your Zelda gif was awkward because you came into the thread while things were ~happening~ and clarified Sloth's joke post after everyone had moved on. I also agree that all the active players can't possibly be town which gives me hives in and of itself; Axelrod is currently the only person who is doing things that I actively dislike which obviously isn't right but I'm not necessarily sure where I'm going wrong. LW was a possibility earlier, but while I can't explain my read on him as well as I'd like I don't think he's a good bet for scum at this stage, so... (shrug)?
@Vaimes: I trust you more now than at the time of making that post? I gave a few reasons earlier in my posting than I can dig up again if you'd like, but it's also possible I'm overly sensitive to it since I got mislynched very very recently because I didn't play damage control properly with one townie who had stubborn suspicion of me and had visions of that happening yet again.
I think you should start spelling her name with one "l". Fu-l-crum. Fulcrum.
I thought she was being a tiny bit two-faced, first in her interaction with Nacho by eating away at his Silver townread, then in her assessment of Nacho as "having reads in his mind already", which I think is a believable reaction to some of his earliest posts but not so much to his later posts, which I think should have changed her take on him. What are your thoughts?
Why did I have to prod him for him to take the correction to his impression of silver into account?
This is an odd interpretation. I didn't respond to your correction of my silverread because I was rereading the game and already working on reassessing my reads as a whole. Did you have any thoughts on any of my posts/takes other than that?
Your read strength on Silver seems a bit overblown for the reasoning that you gave - I also townread smooth responses, but a little bit of banter in the very beginning of the game isn't enough for a full blown townread... is it? What do you think of his Asta suspicion based on them holding back on the RVS vote? What do you think of his M1ndreaver read?
What do you mean by saying that "Nacho gets more flak for that reaction" in your read on LW? One thing that I liked from LW re: talking about tom's gimmick is attacking it and then saying that he didn't like the way that either Axel or Sloth did it. The entire reason why I think scum might attack tom's gimmick is because it's an easy hit and also hard to argue with (it is almost irrefutably anti-town, after all), but LW attacking the others who did so means that he ends up alienating himself from the allies that he would have but he's still attacking it so he risks drawing the ire of TeamTom(tm) as well.
Wrt Vaimes read, I don't think his early attack on me was an attack on low-hanging fruit - we've played together enough where even if I come out of the gate a bit awkward I really don't think that translates to him thinking he can get me lynched if scum.
Why is Axel choosing a semi-serious RVS target bothersome? Why is him confirming his initial read based on KCC's posts bad?
I have thought Killjoy was scum the last two games I played with him (I think) and been wrong both times. I am not getting a scummy feeling from him this game yet.
So, are you getting better, Killjoy, or is this scum you?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
All right, Nacho, give me (as brief as you can) a little run down on your going from "I agree with Axelrod re:KCC," (to the point of asking KCC to claim), to "I am completely satisfied with KCC's (less-than-comprehensive) response," to "Vote: Axelrod for only talking about obvious things that I don't actually disagree with, but he should be saying more." Feel like there's a little whiplash involved there.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ok, so I guess this is your explanation for why you were satisfied with KCC's response. I am having trouble parsing this. You thought:
(1) KCC might be a new player, and by pressing her you might get her to claim, and thus confirm her as Town? Because
(2) You couldn't think of a (good) Town role that sounds scummy? So the risk of outing said role was outweighed by the benefit of getting a strong town read? And,
(3) You also hoped she would be around to answer your pressing her in real time, to get some more instant reactions, I guess? But
(4) That didn't happen, so when she finally did respond with "I know what I'm doing, leave me alone" you were satisfied.
Is that correct?
I got the impression that KCC is a newer player. I don't feel it's likely at all that her scumbuddies coached her to say "hi, my role is scummy and I'd lynch it if someone claimed it!". If I got her to claim early and she claimed early on something that makes sense (rolecop has been brought up and works as an example), that would go a very long way in me trusting her being town.
I can't think of any town roles that are actually scummy because my thoughts on what a scummy role are differ very strongly than MTGS's thoughts on what scummy roles are. I think the chance of her being something that really doesn't need to out at this point are low and I think that she wouldn't go "my role is scummy!" if she was that afraid unless she was lying and instead trying to reduce chances of getting shot early.
When I didn't get the chance to engage her in the early game (or in real time at all), I gave up - it was a line of pursuit I was interested in if I could catch some real-time thought processes (less likely she's being coached) or if I could get a significant response early in the game before scum had the chance to coach her up into a better response, but that window passed and so I was satisfied with her claiming that she wasn't anything actively harmful.
So, this is a bit of a Red Flag for me. The "Tom is Tom" remark.
Your explanation for this being a red flag is that it's a lazy "read" on tom - but I've already given a townread on Tom and explained why I thought so, so I don't really buy that. My point in saying that "Tom is Tom" is that "Tom has played for a while and this is well-established that this is something he does" so I don't really understand how you ended up where you did. I would still like for you to provide wider brush strokes than what you have so far; you're currently pushing things that don't have much to do with the gamestate at all; are you telling me that you don't have a single townread at this stage?
Ok, so I guess this is your explanation for why you were satisfied with KCC's response. I am having trouble parsing this. You thought:
(1) KCC might be a new player, and by pressing her you might get her to claim, and thus confirm her as Town? Because
(2) You couldn't think of a (good) Town role that sounds scummy? So the risk of outing said role was outweighed by the benefit of getting a strong town read? And,
(3) You also hoped she would be around to answer your pressing her in real time, to get some more instant reactions, I guess? But
(4) That didn't happen, so when she finally did respond with "I know what I'm doing, leave me alone" you were satisfied.
Is that correct?
I got the impression that KCC is a newer player. I don't feel it's likely at all that her scumbuddies coached her to say "hi, my role is scummy and I'd lynch it if someone claimed it!". If I got her to claim early and she claimed early on something that makes sense (rolecop has been brought up and works as an example), that would go a very long way in me trusting her being town.
I can't think of any town roles that are actually scummy because my thoughts on what a scummy role are differ very strongly than MTGS's thoughts on what scummy roles are. I think the chance of her being something that really doesn't need to out at this point are low and I think that she wouldn't go "my role is scummy!" if she was that afraid unless she was lying and instead trying to reduce chances of getting shot early.
When I didn't get the chance to engage her in the early game (or in real time at all), I gave up - it was a line of pursuit I was interested in if I could catch some real-time thought processes (less likely she's being coached) or if I could get a significant response early in the game before scum had the chance to coach her up into a better response, but that window passed and so I was satisfied with her claiming that she wasn't anything actively harmful.
So, this is a bit of a Red Flag for me. The "Tom is Tom" remark.
Your explanation for this being a red flag is that it's a lazy "read" on tom - but I've already given a townread on Tom and explained why I thought so, so I don't really buy that.
You don't buy that I think that, or you don't buy it specifically as it refers to you because you gave a read in some other post I don't remember?
My point in saying that "Tom is Tom" is that "Tom has played for a while and this is well-established that this is something he does" so I don't really understand how you ended up where you did.
Where do you think I ended up, Nacho? I am curious to hear.
I would still like for you to provide wider brush strokes than what you have so far; you're currently pushing things that don't have much to do with the gamestate at all;
I'm "pushing" what I feel like and what interests me in the moment. I am also skimming a lot. Generally speaking, I will go back when there's more posts and review specific people.
are you telling me that you don't have a single townread at this stage?
Am I telling you that? I don't think I am. I don't think I even said anything like that.
Although, I will tell you (since you're asking so nicely) that I don't have any especially strong Town reads. Or scum reads. Nor do I expect to have them. Nor does that bother me at all at this stage. Nor should it bother anyone else (but that's just me talking there).
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
You don't buy that I think that, or you don't buy it specifically as it refers to you because you gave a read in some other post I don't remember?
I don't buy that I said that "Tom is Tom and you won't change him" and you interpreted that as "Nacho is refusing to give a read on Tom" as you said you did in your response to Rhand.
Although, I will tell you (since you're asking so nicely) that I don't have any especially strong Town reads. Or scum reads. Nor do I expect to have them. Nor does that bother me at all at this stage. Nor should it bother anyone else (but that's just me talking there).
You are bothered by KCC because her claim was bad and she's not a bad player (although you don't seem to think that her claim is scummy) and because you don't really understand why she claimed because she would have done it differently. I agree, but someone making a bad move =/= scum and you're beating a dead horse; what are you expecting to get out of your questioning here? You're not pushing for her to claim, so - what are you pushing for her for?
You also vaguely pointed out that Tom's rapping was scummish but it's also just bad because it doesn't benefit town whatsoever, but 305 seems to imply you think it's just dumb and not scum.
I'm not asking for super fleshed out reads but I really don't think it's unreasonable to ask for more at this stage, or to try to derail you from current KCC thoughts when I don't feel you're getting anything new out of it; I get it, you have your playstyle, but you clearly have thoughts elsewhere and those thoughts would be much more helpful in reading you than the current lines you're pushing - why not share?
Why did I have to prod him for him to take the correction to his impression of silver into account?
This is an odd interpretation. I didn't respond to your correction of my silverread because I was rereading the game and already working on reassessing my reads as a whole. Did you have any thoughts on any of my posts/takes other than that?
I think Axelrod is the only person who caught this contradiction, and vezok's response is unconvincing. These posts were like 10 hours apart, and vezok had already moved her vote from Nacho to Mindreaver (for reasons that have never been articulated) when the second post was made.
There seems to be a misunderstanding about what I said earlier. When I said my mind was made up, I meant in regards of the vote not on the read. I was going to vote nacho and watch reactions before I decided on other courses of action.
My action regarding nacho was to vote her and see what happens. I'm not the type of person who is good at asking questions that would clarify my read on that person.
Also wrt vezok, while he didn't explicitly explain the M1ndreaver vote it came after M1ndreaver explained a joke from like three pages back, so don't think it's unreasonable to deduce that was the reasoning for his vote.
Refusing to answer questions feels bad no matter the alignment. Unless it's a joke question, answers are always going to help town, so I side-eye folks who outrigh[/b]t ignore questions. It's why I actually went ahead and answered some questions about me or what have you even though I was still 3 pages behind.
So you keep trying to get Vaimes to back off. Is there a reason he shouldn't be scumreading you? Does it feel forced? I assume from context of you not really engaging him on the subject that you don't think it's scummy, so why not?
I don't think I understand the question here?
He shouldn't be scumreading because I'm town and the things that he was attacking me for were wrong or overblown. I don't think it's scummy because I don't think that scum-Vaimes, as the first significant action of the game, tries to mislynch me - don't think he's that ballsy and don't think he has the range to actually pull it off. I keep trying to get him to back off because him tunneling for dumb reasons hurts my enjoyment of the game, flips me from someone who won't get mislynched to someone who might (since it usually takes a very very wrong townie leading the charge for me to go down unless I'm lurking), and because he's a good town player and we will benefit from him pushing someone who I don't know to be town.
I'm not expecting her to have you solved. I'm saying she's not trying. She's asked you a few clarifying questions, but would otherwise be relying on her (outdated maybe) secret meta for you. The point of my poking her on that front was to figure out how she was trying to read you, and came up empty. Per her view, she is capable, and maybe very liekly to get a decent read on you, but there was nothing in the way of her taking steps in that direction.
In response to your final question, I'll ask one of you: Do you feel you can read her well? I don't recall you making that claim.
She's asking me clarifying questions and she's reading my posts - what other "trying" do you need to see? I don't get why you don't think that "she's not ready to give her read yet" is an acceptable answer because it's a reasonable one...? I'm clearly posting and generating content and it's not like I'm currently in danger of death so there's no pressing need for her to have a read on me right this second.
You don't buy that I think that, or you don't buy it specifically as it refers to you because you gave a read in some other post I don't remember?
I don't buy that I said that "Tom is Tom and you won't change him" and you interpreted that as "Nacho is refusing to give a read on Tom" as you said you did in your response to Rhand.
Ok, pet peeve incoming. I really try to be accurate when I'm saying something and I try to avoid hyperbole (I'm sure some slips in now and again). But I did not say at any point "Nacho is refusing to give a read on Tom". I said that - for me - seeing someone go "Tom is Tom" (or really, "anyone" is "anyone") as a read on someone is a Red Flag. Rhand said "Why" and I gave the answer I gave, which was not actually specific to you, nor was I even thinking at the time who had said it when I was replying to Rhand.
I even allowed that it's not just scum who say it. And in as much as you have already given a read on Tom (which, reminder, I do not remember if you have or what it is) that part of it wouldn't exactly apply anyway, would it? It would be different if I was mischaracterizing you, but I'm not, you're mis-characterizing me - twice.
I still think it's a kind of lazy shorthand which is not very helpful and which scum like to use.
Although, I will tell you (since you're asking so nicely) that I don't have any especially strong Town reads. Or scum reads. Nor do I expect to have them. Nor does that bother me at all at this stage. Nor should it bother anyone else (but that's just me talking there).
You are bothered by KCC because her claim was bad and she's not a bad player (although you don't seem to think that her claim is scummy) and because you don't really understand why she claimed because she would have done it differently. I agree, but someone making a bad move =/= scum and you're beating a dead horse; what are you expecting to get out of your questioning here? You're not pushing for her to claim, so - what are you pushing for her for?
I'm not beating the horse at all. More hyperbole?
Here's a tiny insight: I want her to speak more. Period.
You also vaguely pointed out that Tom's rapping was scummish but it's also just bad because it doesn't benefit town whatsoever, but 305 seems to imply you think it's just dumb and not scum.
It is dumb. It might be from scum. "Scummish" is about as precise as I can get there.
I'm not asking for super fleshed out reads but I really don't think it's unreasonable to ask for more at this stage, or to try to derail you from current KCC thoughts when I don't feel you're getting anything new out of it; I get it, you have your playstyle, but you clearly have thoughts elsewhere and those thoughts would be much more helpful in reading you than the current lines you're pushing - why not share?
Well, believe it or not, I've not formed much in the way of opinions, and I don't think me giving a bunch of off the cuff gut reads would be helpful at all. I don't know what "stage" you consider this, but for me, this is the "nobody knows anything" stage, and it's another pet peeve of mine when people post about others with way more certainty than they ought to be having.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Actually, let me put it this way. KCC, do you agree with everything Rhand said about Tom's reads? Do you think Rhand described everything Tom was saying in those posts? If you do, ok, maybe Tom's actually being super clear and I just can't get him. But I don't think you do.
Okay, this is fair. While I do agree with a lot of Rhands interpretation, it's not all of it. And I wasn't reading them quite as deeply as Rhand did. I still think you were a little harsh about it, but I like that you acknowledged that and took a step back
I have thought Killjoy was scum the last two games I played with him (I think) and been wrong both times. I am not getting a scummy feeling from him this game yet.
So, are you getting better, Killjoy, or is this scum you?
KJ has been taking steps to improve his town game since Modern, and it's been working well
I don't buy that I said that "Tom is Tom and you won't change him" and you interpreted that as "Nacho is refusing to give a read on Tom" as you said you did in your response to Rhand.
This is a great point. I've only played 3 games with Tom, and I'll need to double check this, but I'm pretty sure it was the first one (Modern) where I learned that this is a thing to expect from Tom. And Axel played that with me. So, he should know that too
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Dk feels okay in the fulcrum back-and-forth. Both of them do, really, but I'm not sure how to sort fulcrum yet.
What in particular did DK say that you liked? Did Rhand's #300 affect your read on him at all?
Dk's Vezok read is something I believe he believes and his response to fulcrum questioning him feels very open and not manipulative. It's not really a town read, just feels not wolfy.
Rhand's post didn't really move the needle for me, no. It's a good post but it doesn't really resolve the weirdness, I'll have to iso him later toDay and try to explain what it is... but I think it's more natural for him to try to win me over than OMGUS me especially after Eurovision lol, and the rest of the reads are like... reasonable but nothing that I really think he wouldn't/couldn't make as a wolf.
I just looked. I think the last time I played a game with Nacho was literally three years ago, and we got into an endgame with a Cop-cleared scum Godfather when I was already thinking he was scum....That didn't go well.
But he voted me and not the other way round, so my end-game record is still untarnished! I think. Good times!
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Because I think like half the game has more wolf equity than he does
Why do you think he has any?
That's a non-answer. You haven't given any reason for why you have him as a townlean, I don't have any reasons of my own to townread him. I think he's as good a wagon as anyone else right now.
I'm not exactly flawless, but I'm gorgeous just like a horse is
I know the thought of me succeeding makes a lot of people nauseous
Still I'm on the back of the boat taking pictures with the swordfish
I'm not exactly flawless, but I'm gorgeous just like a horse is
I know the thought of me succeeding makes a lot of people nauseous
Still I'm on the back of the boat taking pictures with the swordfish
I don't have one, because he's being deliberately obstructionist. I can see multiple ways to take posts about his reads, and assigning a good reason just because it's what I'm thinking gives him credit for thoughts he may have never had.
Can you give me an example in his reads where you understand what he's saying? And, like, how you know that's what he's actually saying and not just what you happen to be reading into it?
This is ugly smearing. Tom's post are pretty straightforward, certainly more so than how this tries to make it sound. This feels over the top even from someone who doesn't like it
This is ugly smearing. Tom's post are pretty straightforward, certainly more so than how this tries to make it sound. This feels over the top even from someone who doesn't like it
unvote vote fulcrum
They are not. I've seen tom be straight forward and play the game. This isn't it.
Actually, let me put it this way. KCC, do you agree with everything Rhand said about Tom's reads? Do you think Rhand described everything Tom was saying in those posts? If you do, ok, maybe Tom's actually being super clear and I just can't get him. But I don't think you do.
Actually, let me put it this way. KCC, do you agree with everything Rhand said about Tom's reads? Do you think Rhand described everything Tom was saying in those posts? If you do, ok, maybe Tom's actually being super clear and I just can't get him. But I don't think you do.
Okay, this is fair. While I do agree with a lot of Rhands interpretation, it's not all of it. And I wasn't reading them quite as deeply as Rhand did. I still think you were a little harsh about it, but I like that you acknowledged that and took a step back
Okay, this is fair. While I do agree with a lot of Rhands interpretation, it's not all of it. And I wasn't reading them quite as deeply as Rhand did. I still think you were a little harsh about it, but I like that you acknowledged that and took a step back
Tom's post are pretty straightforward, certainly more so than how this tries to make it sound. This feels over the top even from someone who doesn't like it
Welp, there’s no way I’m getting caught up anywhere close to soon. I’m in disaster recovering mode at work since Friday, and on call perpetually, so I’m not even gonna try, since it’s either get sleep or backread 250 posts; someone give me the quick and dirty or what’s gone down since around post 100, with some color commentary. Most entertaining/useful answer gets something special
@Gemma: what’s the takeaway with that’s spoilered post?
I was just having fun highlighting what I thought were the more notable aspects of that interaction. I think it's a less than stellar look for both of them, KCC not really displaying an actual thought process in her fulcrum read, fulcrum kind of getting in KCC's head and playing devil's advocate in a way that doesn't seem constructive.
Welp, there’s no way I’m getting caught up anywhere close to soon. I’m in disaster recovering mode at work since Friday, and on call perpetually, so I’m not even gonna try, since it’s either get sleep or backread 250 posts; someone give me the quick and dirty or what’s gone down since around post 100, with some color commentary. Most entertaining/useful answer gets something special
It's day 1. You missed almost nothing. KCC claimed a scummy role and nacho tried some rolefishing to get to claim. KCC refused.
Otherwise it's just people bickering about unimportant stuff.
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Think it's the part where you townread Rhand for defending Nacho because you thought Nacho's push was "justified but misguided" and I'm having trouble squaring that perception of Nacho's push and these two reads. Could you rephrase?
That's roughly what *I* was going to say, it felt like fulcrum was leading Nacho into a wolf read on me... but I'm not actually as sure now, seems like she's actually suspicious of Nacho and trying to get into his head maybe?
Dk feels okay in the fulcrum back-and-forth. Both of them do, really, but I'm not sure how to sort fulcrum yet.
Last is focusing on stuff Vaimes does in a very like, meta sense and not even trying to apply it to what Vaimes is doing this game it feels like. A lot of talking about what Vaimes always does but no like... substance. This isn't a wolf read, exactly, I don't know what it is really.
Nacho's big posts feel okay too, I'll try to circle back to them when I have time to.
Silvercrys3467
Vaimes/Killjoy
Gemma/Slothful
Axelrod
KittyCupCake/tomsloger
Nachomamma8/dkingsland967
fulcrum / shadowlancerx / Asta (Null)
vezokpiraka / Lastwhisper
Rhand/M1ndreaver
I will say I noticed fulcrum's response re: Gemma. @Fulcrum: Do you see specific reasoning that Gemma doesn't want to sort Nacho yet, or is that just a plausible theory from your experience with her? Is that probably true or maybe true?
I don't have her specific reasoning, that's my assumption of what's she doing based on my experience with her (which is pretty significant, lol).
At least I got your town read to keep me going
@silver
Well the whole vaimes is never a day 1 Lynch is a thing, his questions and general tone looks townie, but it's nothing he couldn't fake for at least one day phase. That's my read there
That would be a very poor decision on your part, if you were scum. I'm usually mislynched quickly barring the times where I claim something that can save me.
And even so, the way you approached that seemed to come from a town mindset of exploring all possibilities and not a scum mindset of pocketing. It reminded me a lot of Cantrip's thoughts in Eurovision Mafia where he was town. Also Axelrod's final walls in Modern Mafia.
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All this shade that's comin at me, I wonder who throws it
They can't see the vision, boy, they must be out of focus
That's a real hot album, homie, I wonder who wrote it (oh, *****)
It's a thing I wrestle with constantly and not just with Vaimes.
.....
I'll show myself out.
Another couple notes here: Yeah I get not wanting to share secret meta. I had that on Rhand before. So I get that. That wasn't my issue. But I'm gonna try coming at her from a different angle.
re: Nacho: IDK about town, my only experience with him as scum is JPA2 where he made me look like his scumbuddy (he never flipped so it never bore fruit, but I'm pretty sure it was his idea in the scumchat) so, at least he's pretty manipulative as scum.
re: Vez: I don't think that process is outside of her typical demeanor. I've always found her pointed vocabulary odd and scummy though.
Maybe fore some context, look at Eurovision (scum) and ...Modern? (town) It could have also been GoT or DitF. She was town in a recent game I played and I can't remember what game that was. Check ISOs I guess to see if she posted in the thread.
I'm not expecting her to have you solved. I'm saying she's not trying. She's asked you a few clarifying questions, but would otherwise be relying on her (outdated maybe) secret meta for you. The point of my poking her on that front was to figure out how she was trying to read you, and came up empty. Per her view, she is capable, and maybe very liekly to get a decent read on you, but there was nothing in the way of her taking steps in that direction.
In response to your final question, I'll ask one of you: Do you feel you can read her well? I don't recall you making that claim.
His general approach feels pure. I like that he's comfortable attacking the number of people that he has this game (he's thrown out shots at me, Tom, Vezok, M1ndreaver, Sloth, AND Axel) but also hasn't necessarily found a ton of stuff that he felt strong enough to stock to. I liked his tone in #187, is a pretty smooth reaction if scum there.
Recently, there's stuff like 343 as a genuine tom take or 354 as a good response to tom, also sort of like him ranting against Vaimes... think it's a weird move coming from LW-scum if Vaimes said that one of his scumtells on him was "criticizing [Vaimes] for posting too much".
I know Town people can say it too. But I would rather you say "I can't read Tom." Or "Tom will act however he wants to amuse himself regardless of alignment" if that's what you actually mean.
Well, I'm just making a note here. That did not appear to be what you were saying.
Well, I guess I will take your word for all this, but I would not think that post outside her "scum" range in general.
Maybe? I don't know. If it was me, and I had thought about it to the point that I decided claiming the "scummy soundingness" of my role was the thing to do, I feel like I would have done it better. And I just know what she did say wasn't particularly persuasive. And then she didn't say anything else.
Hello, have you met my friend, Mr. Paranoia? He tends to hover next to me most games and whisper grand conspiracy theories in my ear.
, +I'm a little manic, I just wanna see your big smile
If you ain't ecstatic I feel like I blew it big time
Additionally @Mindreaver, your Zelda gif was awkward because you came into the thread while things were ~happening~ and clarified Sloth's joke post after everyone had moved on. I also agree that all the active players can't possibly be town which gives me hives in and of itself; Axelrod is currently the only person who is doing things that I actively dislike which obviously isn't right but I'm not necessarily sure where I'm going wrong. LW was a possibility earlier, but while I can't explain my read on him as well as I'd like I don't think he's a good bet for scum at this stage, so... (shrug)?
@Vaimes: I trust you more now than at the time of making that post? I gave a few reasons earlier in my posting than I can dig up again if you'd like, but it's also possible I'm overly sensitive to it since I got mislynched very very recently because I didn't play damage control properly with one townie who had stubborn suspicion of me and had visions of that happening yet again.
This is an odd interpretation. I didn't respond to your correction of my silverread because I was rereading the game and already working on reassessing my reads as a whole. Did you have any thoughts on any of my posts/takes other than that?
@Rhand's 300:
Your read strength on Silver seems a bit overblown for the reasoning that you gave - I also townread smooth responses, but a little bit of banter in the very beginning of the game isn't enough for a full blown townread... is it? What do you think of his Asta suspicion based on them holding back on the RVS vote? What do you think of his M1ndreaver read?
What do you mean by saying that "Nacho gets more flak for that reaction" in your read on LW? One thing that I liked from LW re: talking about tom's gimmick is attacking it and then saying that he didn't like the way that either Axel or Sloth did it. The entire reason why I think scum might attack tom's gimmick is because it's an easy hit and also hard to argue with (it is almost irrefutably anti-town, after all), but LW attacking the others who did so means that he ends up alienating himself from the allies that he would have but he's still attacking it so he risks drawing the ire of TeamTom(tm) as well.
Wrt Vaimes read, I don't think his early attack on me was an attack on low-hanging fruit - we've played together enough where even if I come out of the gate a bit awkward I really don't think that translates to him thinking he can get me lynched if scum.
Why is Axel choosing a semi-serious RVS target bothersome? Why is him confirming his initial read based on KCC's posts bad?
So, are you getting better, Killjoy, or is this scum you?
I got the impression that KCC is a newer player. I don't feel it's likely at all that her scumbuddies coached her to say "hi, my role is scummy and I'd lynch it if someone claimed it!". If I got her to claim early and she claimed early on something that makes sense (rolecop has been brought up and works as an example), that would go a very long way in me trusting her being town.
I can't think of any town roles that are actually scummy because my thoughts on what a scummy role are differ very strongly than MTGS's thoughts on what scummy roles are. I think the chance of her being something that really doesn't need to out at this point are low and I think that she wouldn't go "my role is scummy!" if she was that afraid unless she was lying and instead trying to reduce chances of getting shot early.
When I didn't get the chance to engage her in the early game (or in real time at all), I gave up - it was a line of pursuit I was interested in if I could catch some real-time thought processes (less likely she's being coached) or if I could get a significant response early in the game before scum had the chance to coach her up into a better response, but that window passed and so I was satisfied with her claiming that she wasn't anything actively harmful.
Your explanation for this being a red flag is that it's a lazy "read" on tom - but I've already given a townread on Tom and explained why I thought so, so I don't really buy that. My point in saying that "Tom is Tom" is that "Tom has played for a while and this is well-established that this is something he does" so I don't really understand how you ended up where you did. I would still like for you to provide wider brush strokes than what you have so far; you're currently pushing things that don't have much to do with the gamestate at all; are you telling me that you don't have a single townread at this stage?
You don't buy that I think that, or you don't buy it specifically as it refers to you because you gave a read in some other post I don't remember? Where do you think I ended up, Nacho? I am curious to hear.
I'm "pushing" what I feel like and what interests me in the moment. I am also skimming a lot. Generally speaking, I will go back when there's more posts and review specific people.
Am I telling you that? I don't think I am. I don't think I even said anything like that.
Although, I will tell you (since you're asking so nicely) that I don't have any especially strong Town reads. Or scum reads. Nor do I expect to have them. Nor does that bother me at all at this stage. Nor should it bother anyone else (but that's just me talking there).
Sure.
I don't buy that I said that "Tom is Tom and you won't change him" and you interpreted that as "Nacho is refusing to give a read on Tom" as you said you did in your response to Rhand.
You are bothered by KCC because her claim was bad and she's not a bad player (although you don't seem to think that her claim is scummy) and because you don't really understand why she claimed because she would have done it differently. I agree, but someone making a bad move =/= scum and you're beating a dead horse; what are you expecting to get out of your questioning here? You're not pushing for her to claim, so - what are you pushing for her for?
You also vaguely pointed out that Tom's rapping was scummish but it's also just bad because it doesn't benefit town whatsoever, but 305 seems to imply you think it's just dumb and not scum.
I'm not asking for super fleshed out reads but I really don't think it's unreasonable to ask for more at this stage, or to try to derail you from current KCC thoughts when I don't feel you're getting anything new out of it; I get it, you have your playstyle, but you clearly have thoughts elsewhere and those thoughts would be much more helpful in reading you than the current lines you're pushing - why not share?
Ah, ok. Yes, but I'm processing them.
What do you think of vezok's explanation below?
Who are you talking about here?
What in particular did DK say that you liked? Did Rhand's #300 affect your read on him at all?
I don't think I understand the question here?
He shouldn't be scumreading because I'm town and the things that he was attacking me for were wrong or overblown. I don't think it's scummy because I don't think that scum-Vaimes, as the first significant action of the game, tries to mislynch me - don't think he's that ballsy and don't think he has the range to actually pull it off. I keep trying to get him to back off because him tunneling for dumb reasons hurts my enjoyment of the game, flips me from someone who won't get mislynched to someone who might (since it usually takes a very very wrong townie leading the charge for me to go down unless I'm lurking), and because he's a good town player and we will benefit from him pushing someone who I don't know to be town.
She's asking me clarifying questions and she's reading my posts - what other "trying" do you need to see? I don't get why you don't think that "she's not ready to give her read yet" is an acceptable answer because it's a reasonable one...? I'm clearly posting and generating content and it's not like I'm currently in danger of death so there's no pressing need for her to have a read on me right this second.
I can read her well, yes.
I even allowed that it's not just scum who say it. And in as much as you have already given a read on Tom (which, reminder, I do not remember if you have or what it is) that part of it wouldn't exactly apply anyway, would it? It would be different if I was mischaracterizing you, but I'm not, you're mis-characterizing me - twice.
I still think it's a kind of lazy shorthand which is not very helpful and which scum like to use.
I'm not beating the horse at all. More hyperbole?
Here's a tiny insight: I want her to speak more. Period.
It is dumb. It might be from scum. "Scummish" is about as precise as I can get there.
Well, believe it or not, I've not formed much in the way of opinions, and I don't think me giving a bunch of off the cuff gut reads would be helpful at all. I don't know what "stage" you consider this, but for me, this is the "nobody knows anything" stage, and it's another pet peeve of mine when people post about others with way more certainty than they ought to be having.
unvote
KJ has been taking steps to improve his town game since Modern, and it's been working well
This is town kj
This is a great point. I've only played 3 games with Tom, and I'll need to double check this, but I'm pretty sure it was the first one (Modern) where I learned that this is a thing to expect from Tom. And Axel played that with me. So, he should know that too
Awesome, but, I'm not saying anymore about my role
With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Lynch
Back after work y'all
Rhand's post didn't really move the needle for me, no. It's a good post but it doesn't really resolve the weirdness, I'll have to iso him later toDay and try to explain what it is... but I think it's more natural for him to try to win me over than OMGUS me especially after Eurovision lol, and the rest of the reads are like... reasonable but nothing that I really think he wouldn't/couldn't make as a wolf.
Because I think like half the game has more wolf equity than he does
Why do you think he has any?
maybe if he wasn’t town then he wouldn’t have struggled
playa, all he gots opinions not crooks in his huddle
axel town
But he voted me and not the other way round, so my end-game record is still untarnished! I think. Good times!
I know the thought of me succeeding makes a lot of people nauseous
Still I'm on the back of the boat taking pictures with the swordfish
I was just having fun highlighting what I thought were the more notable aspects of that interaction. I think it's a less than stellar look for both of them, KCC not really displaying an actual thought process in her fulcrum read, fulcrum kind of getting in KCC's head and playing devil's advocate in a way that doesn't seem constructive.
It's day 1. You missed almost nothing. KCC claimed a scummy role and nacho tried some rolefishing to get to claim. KCC refused.
Otherwise it's just people bickering about unimportant stuff.
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should I unvote this?
I mean he seems to just completely ignore votes on himself, and that's townie I think?
nah
Hands in the air like its good to be
Alive and I'm a famous rapper
Even when the paths are all crookedy