im pretty much focusing all my time after work tomorrow to convince you that its most likely Killjoy
like I said, if Proph is a wolf, then I will blame myself and Killjoy, that road is long gone at this point anyways
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
So this is a bunch of thoughts I have on both Lastwhisper and Killjoy.
There's been a fair amount I've liked from both killjoy and Last, and there has been some stuff that I haven't liked from each of them this game. Let's boil my likes and dislikes about each of them into a succinct PROS and CONS format.
Lastwhisper
PROS
- His constant ACTIVITY and THREAD PRESENCE throughout the entire game. I know that this isn't really something that you can use to read Last with major accuracy (because no matter what his alignment is, he would probably top the postcount and post a lot even as scum) but I'm just going to talk about some events that happened during this four-month long game that I think he would have trouble faking as scum. Instances such as:
There are moments where it feels like he's actively thinking through his reads in a way with such nuance that I think would be difficult for him to fake as scum. Couple of instances like this in the game:
Hey Last could you describe your Vezok progression for me? It looks like you voted her for liking Fulcrum's entrance and then unvoted her for ignoring your vote?
Just trying to make sure I have that straight
Yes and no? It wasn't that he liked it, its that it just felt not real? but I am going with the fact that maybe Vezok is just being a Vezok, and not jumping on the people who vote him, which looks good, and giving thoughts that he believes, which is a complete 180 from my original reasoning for voting him
" <just scumreading the people whos playstyles you dont like>"
give or take, sure
I mean I tend to confuse my wolf reads with, maybe I just dont like how they choose to play
Vaimes meta is pretty garbage for the most part, he just plays for the tonal reads, with reads here and there that dont take much effort
I want to be like, "Ya Vaimes is town here", because of his reads, because right now, all we got is, Can Vaimes play like this at the current stage of the game as both alignments, maybe?
Fulcrum's read of Vaimes is basically, "I dont think wolf!Vaimes goes through all the effort of trying to make us believe he could steal a passive mason because its so messy"
and I honestly dont think that says much of anything in Vaimes favor
especially when overall content-wise, he has mostly nothing
even in regards to like Vezok, who I hate and like posts here and there, who is 99% of the time probably town because of his claim, gives off this feeling that he actually believes his reads and posts, which I dont get from Vaimes
I really don't get why I am being hated for my Vaimes read when Vaimes gets a safety net because of tone which is super easy to fake, when his content is so mediocre, if people don't want to think he is a wolf as of yet, that's fine, but like other than fulcrum who has given a reason why, I would like people to explain to me, why he deserves any semblance of a town read, or why he shouldn't be lynched today
if not Vaimes we should definitely be trying to lynch in the trains from the previous day since no one seems to agree on anything
like Keldeo is such bad choice since he feels like he is trying
In our whole exchange, you've been irritated that I'm pressing you, and expressed confusion about why, but if I'm scum, then that would just be the answer. There wouldn't be a reason beyond that. But you're not approaching it that way at all, like that's even a possibility. It's just "what do you want me to say" and "I don't understand why you're attacking me" without any hint of the straight forward answer that maybe I could just scum. Which doesn't make sense if I'm already in your scum pile.
Like, why would this be annoyed confusion rather than confirmation?
so you want me to take stance? why wouldnt it be a possibility? did I say it wasnt? I mean people push me all the time, it frustrates me regardless of my alignment, but I dont just scum read them anymore, and of course if they are town as well, then they are just as uninformed as me, so getting emotional doesnt help much
I'm not really seeing that though. And that's my go-to hunting method. Why would you be so annoyed at my questions if you're trying to read me that way?
I am mostly annoyed at myself, I aint trying to read you in anyway, like I said before, I think they are +town and +scum things coming from your slot, this push makes me feel a little worse on you, but I also recall this same behavior on you when you were town, so idk
It's one of the strongest leads I've seen this game, I'm not just going to ignore it because of Today's craziness, and what, wait for Tomorrow's different craziness?
but the chances of me getting lynched here based on volume alone, whether you like to believe that is a decent reason to not kill someone or not, is slim, given that we still have 0 wolf flips, its a bad place to push especially if I flip town, and I will flip town. Its bad because you are wasting our time if you are also town, but if you are wolf, its a decent attempt to look like you are wolf hunting.
How about fulcrum? I would like a thoughtful read on him, since you think we are aligned as wolves.
@Silver
what are your wolf reads again? and do you think that his claim being somewhat likely to be real, makes him town? Proph I mean
I picked out a couple of random posts, but there are a bunch more posts like these from Last if you care to trawl through his 83 page ISO.
In the first post, Last's debilitation on vezok's alignment reads as... real, for the lack of a better term. It genuinely feels as though he is uninformed and you can see how he is working through vezok in real time. His mindset is just super transparent here and I think if he was scum this read I feel would be more static and less fleshed out.
In the second post, I don't think Last has this irrational hatred of how Vaimes plays if Last is scum. Maybe I'm wrong and this is not alignment indicative of Last, but what does he really gain here from dunking on town Vaimes like this besides drawing Vaimes's ire? His care of how he's being treated for his Vaimes read feels way more to me like a townie being upset that he's not being listened to as opposed to having any sort of agenda.
And the exchange with KCC also feels agenda-less. He's being super transparent here and was working to solve KCC even though he was getting fed up that KCC was pressuring him. He's actively debilitating on KCC's alignment even though KCC was pressuring him, which doesn't strike me as a mafia response to this sort of pressure.
Like I said, he has a lot more posts like this in his ISO, but I've only picked out a couple of examples be
- The whole exchange regarding the neighbor chat. I went back and reread the start of Day 5 and it felt like Last genuinely did not know either of his two partner's alignments. I feel like if Last and fulcrum were both scum to town KCC, it would show in Last's posting. Instead we get posts like these which honestly make me think that the neighbor pairing was v/v/w, instead of v/w/w:
Quote from Lastwhisper »
I also don't really appreciate this comment
"They must've snowed you pretty good, dude"
Silver has no idea how I think or any idea what we talked about
Quote from Last »
if there really is a wolf between KCC/Fulcrum, and these two wagons end up pitted against each other, there is a high chance we can hit the wrong one,
and if they are in fact V/V, this leads to a very bad situation in mylo/lylo tomorrow
also I literally just lost a game because of mechanical reads, and I am not about to see that happen again
Quote from Lastwhisper »
I want everyone thought's on this, I won't say who said it in the chat
"My team below is strictly gut. DK feels manipulative. Proph feels distant. And silver feels like he was setting up my chain lynch all day"
- This is very weak but it's a read I just thought about now. I think that if Last was scumbuddies with fulcrum, Last wouldn't call her by male pronouns for most of the game. Maybe this is getting very deep into it but I feel like fulcrum would have corrected Last in scumchat about it rather than allow Last to keep doing it (?). This read is so whack lol
- Vote analysis. I know that killjoy used this as a reason to scumread Last, but in votecount 1.15
You can see how Rhand, fulcrum, and KJ are pushing the town Axel wagon, while there's probably just all town on scum Dkings. It would be weird for scum Last to be pushing scum Dkings here.
Plus, Last was the vote that ensuring Dkings's lynch over mine. I feel like if both Last and fulcrum are scum, I would have been lynched instead of Dkings on Day 5.
Why would last vote his buddy in this vote count, for example? Wouldn't he rather just vote with his scumbuddies and score an easy mislynch on me?
- I keep pointing this out and it always falls on deaf ears, but I have a lot of personal experience with Lastwhisper with him as town and scum. If he's scum this game he would have had to level up MASSIVELY in a very short period of time because he just played as scum in Modern. I don't believe this is the case.
CONS
- He is the only unflipped on the Mindreaver wagon here: but in a 17 player game with only 4 scum, that is not the smoking gun it used to be in the past.
- I think killjoy is correct when he says that Last was fencesitting or townreading most of the scum for most of the game. Namely, he doesn't have the best record when you compare his interactions against dkings/Rhand/fulcrum. Outside from burying dkings Day 5 and voting fulcrum the previous Day, most of his interactions with scum, if you look them without nuance, are not great.
Killjoy next. I see where KJ is coming from with his case, but my issue with it is that he's not really looking at the heart of the interactions. He's just looking at a bunch of Last posts without the surrounding context and then painting a narrative at the end.
I didn't completely ignore context. Like I read around the votes to see generally what caused them. If there's context that was relevent that I missed, let me know.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
- I should probably place less weight on this, but his responses to all of the concerns I've had with him Today have been concise and well thought out. If he's scum here he's certainly playing the best game of his life. The stuff that I'm looking back on reread looks questionable to him, but his responses Today regarding both what his thought process was EoD and his explanation on his stance on Rhand Day 1 are pretty cogent to me.
- Forgot about this but he was very townie Day 1/2. He was my literal top townread when I replaced into the game because he was asking active questions and was fairly clean WRT his thought process. This kind of wavered as the game went on, but it's still a point I have to consider.
CONS
- His voting record. He's lambasting Last for his voting record when KJ has had not the most stellar record of being on scum lynches himself. Again, I have to bring up Votecount 1.15:
I think this votecount is the key to this game. It just makes so little sense from scum Last to be voting dkings here, when he could be joining his fellow scumbuddies in taking down Axelrod and preventing the Day 1 DV lynch.
- KJ's interactions with the flipped scum are not super stellar - ngl, neither Last nor KJ's interactions with scum were great. KJ was also on the tail end of the dkings lynch and didn't really interact with dk for much of the game (he never really strongly scumread dk as well). He had the one thing with Rhand but it kind of tapered off until KJ revoted Rhand on Day 3 for messing up his claim.
- His footsie with Rhand early on, where they both scumread each other then both backed off of each other. I know that KJ explained why he did such a thing, but the fact that Rhand also withdrew /still/ feels extremely weird to me - again, like something was coordinated in scumchat. Late in Day 5, KJ always preferred a KCC lynch over a dk lynch, and he said that he would only do a dk lynch for information.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Killjoy's calm demeanor is almost certainly necessary for his scumgame to work in any meaningful way. Honestly, both Killjoy AND Last have felt behaviorally much the same as they did at the very beginning of the game-- there's no major shift in how they've approached the game. That's hard to really analyze and present as meaningful.
I dunno, Killjoy tried to present Last's voting as "softballs scum until the last second" but didn't REALLY present an extensive case of interactions that would have appeared scummy. So it just doesn't work for me.
Your posts are solid, Proph. They're definitely more extensive than the quick glances through KJ and LW I've done but they've generally been in line with what I've found. It's really close, but there's just slightly more in favor of LW and maybe that's just gut feeling talking but. Whatever! Here we go.
I've read your case, KJ, but most of your case is that he's had poor interactions with Rhand and dk. I agree with that his interactions with both flipped scum aren't great, but I think YOUR interactions with Rhand and dk are worse.
Your point about him being the only nonflipped in a bunch of town is valid, but again I don't think that's fully reliable in a game with 4 scum and 17 players.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I really think it's just killjoy left and he hammered fulcrum because he thought he'd have a better chance of winning toMorrow than getting four votes on me
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
like I said, if Proph is a wolf, then I will blame myself and Killjoy, that road is long gone at this point anyways
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Curse PremiumShould be around tomorrow to finalize things
See y'all tonight
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Curse PremiumGonna work on this game for the rest of the day today
Hopefully we walk out with a W tonight
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Curse PremiumGonna put out a summary of stuff in the next hour or so, would like some comments on that when I finish up
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Curse PremiumThere's been a fair amount I've liked from both killjoy and Last, and there has been some stuff that I haven't liked from each of them this game. Let's boil my likes and dislikes about each of them into a succinct PROS and CONS format.
Lastwhisper
PROS
- His constant ACTIVITY and THREAD PRESENCE throughout the entire game. I know that this isn't really something that you can use to read Last with major accuracy (because no matter what his alignment is, he would probably top the postcount and post a lot even as scum) but I'm just going to talk about some events that happened during this four-month long game that I think he would have trouble faking as scum. Instances such as:
- There are moments where it feels like he's actively thinking through his reads in a way with such nuance that I think would be difficult for him to fake as scum. Couple of instances like this in the game:
I picked out a couple of random posts, but there are a bunch more posts like these from Last if you care to trawl through his 83 page ISO.In the first post, Last's debilitation on vezok's alignment reads as... real, for the lack of a better term. It genuinely feels as though he is uninformed and you can see how he is working through vezok in real time. His mindset is just super transparent here and I think if he was scum this read I feel would be more static and less fleshed out.
In the second post, I don't think Last has this irrational hatred of how Vaimes plays if Last is scum. Maybe I'm wrong and this is not alignment indicative of Last, but what does he really gain here from dunking on town Vaimes like this besides drawing Vaimes's ire? His care of how he's being treated for his Vaimes read feels way more to me like a townie being upset that he's not being listened to as opposed to having any sort of agenda.
And the exchange with KCC also feels agenda-less. He's being super transparent here and was working to solve KCC even though he was getting fed up that KCC was pressuring him. He's actively debilitating on KCC's alignment even though KCC was pressuring him, which doesn't strike me as a mafia response to this sort of pressure.
Like I said, he has a lot more posts like this in his ISO, but I've only picked out a couple of examples be
- The whole exchange regarding the neighbor chat. I went back and reread the start of Day 5 and it felt like Last genuinely did not know either of his two partner's alignments. I feel like if Last and fulcrum were both scum to town KCC, it would show in Last's posting. Instead we get posts like these which honestly make me think that the neighbor pairing was v/v/w, instead of v/w/w:
- This is very weak but it's a read I just thought about now. I think that if Last was scumbuddies with fulcrum, Last wouldn't call her by male pronouns for most of the game. Maybe this is getting very deep into it but I feel like fulcrum would have corrected Last in scumchat about it rather than allow Last to keep doing it (?). This read is so whack lol
- Vote analysis. I know that killjoy used this as a reason to scumread Last, but in votecount 1.15
You can see how Rhand, fulcrum, and KJ are pushing the town Axel wagon, while there's probably just all town on scum Dkings. It would be weird for scum Last to be pushing scum Dkings here.
Plus, Last was the vote that ensuring Dkings's lynch over mine. I feel like if both Last and fulcrum are scum, I would have been lynched instead of Dkings on Day 5.
Why would last vote his buddy in this vote count, for example? Wouldn't he rather just vote with his scumbuddies and score an easy mislynch on me?
- I keep pointing this out and it always falls on deaf ears, but I have a lot of personal experience with Lastwhisper with him as town and scum. If he's scum this game he would have had to level up MASSIVELY in a very short period of time because he just played as scum in Modern. I don't believe this is the case.
CONS
- He is the only unflipped on the Mindreaver wagon here: but in a 17 player game with only 4 scum, that is not the smoking gun it used to be in the past.
- I think killjoy is correct when he says that Last was fencesitting or townreading most of the scum for most of the game. Namely, he doesn't have the best record when you compare his interactions against dkings/Rhand/fulcrum. Outside from burying dkings Day 5 and voting fulcrum the previous Day, most of his interactions with scum, if you look them without nuance, are not great.
Killjoy next. I see where KJ is coming from with his case, but my issue with it is that he's not really looking at the heart of the interactions. He's just looking at a bunch of Last posts without the surrounding context and then painting a narrative at the end.
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Curse PremiumPROS
- I should probably place less weight on this, but his responses to all of the concerns I've had with him Today have been concise and well thought out. If he's scum here he's certainly playing the best game of his life. The stuff that I'm looking back on reread looks questionable to him, but his responses Today regarding both what his thought process was EoD and his explanation on his stance on Rhand Day 1 are pretty cogent to me.
- Forgot about this but he was very townie Day 1/2. He was my literal top townread when I replaced into the game because he was asking active questions and was fairly clean WRT his thought process. This kind of wavered as the game went on, but it's still a point I have to consider.
CONS
- His voting record. He's lambasting Last for his voting record when KJ has had not the most stellar record of being on scum lynches himself. Again, I have to bring up Votecount 1.15:
I think this votecount is the key to this game. It just makes so little sense from scum Last to be voting dkings here, when he could be joining his fellow scumbuddies in taking down Axelrod and preventing the Day 1 DV lynch.
- KJ's interactions with the flipped scum are not super stellar - ngl, neither Last nor KJ's interactions with scum were great. KJ was also on the tail end of the dkings lynch and didn't really interact with dk for much of the game (he never really strongly scumread dk as well). He had the one thing with Rhand but it kind of tapered off until KJ revoted Rhand on Day 3 for messing up his claim.
- His footsie with Rhand early on, where they both scumread each other then both backed off of each other. I know that KJ explained why he did such a thing, but the fact that Rhand also withdrew /still/ feels extremely weird to me - again, like something was coordinated in scumchat. Late in Day 5, KJ always preferred a KCC lynch over a dk lynch, and he said that he would only do a dk lynch for information.
idk
thoughts, Asta?
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Curse Premiumscum KJ has played an extremely clean game and deserves huge props
I dunno, Killjoy tried to present Last's voting as "softballs scum until the last second" but didn't REALLY present an extensive case of interactions that would have appeared scummy. So it just doesn't work for me.
Your posts are solid, Proph. They're definitely more extensive than the quick glances through KJ and LW I've done but they've generally been in line with what I've found. It's really close, but there's just slightly more in favor of LW and maybe that's just gut feeling talking but. Whatever! Here we go.
Vote Killjoy
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Curse PremiumI've read your case, KJ, but most of your case is that he's had poor interactions with Rhand and dk. I agree with that his interactions with both flipped scum aren't great, but I think YOUR interactions with Rhand and dk are worse.
Your point about him being the only nonflipped in a bunch of town is valid, but again I don't think that's fully reliable in a game with 4 scum and 17 players.
I gambling with this vote, but this will remove any possibilities that Proph can be a wolf
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Curse Premium-
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Curse PremiumHe picked on everything and everything to make me look like the last wolf
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Curse PremiumMay the better side prevail.
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Curse PremiumPlease be right, Silver.
GG Killjoy
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Curse PremiumThis was a hard fought battle.
super impressed with his play here
I'm future, if you think I'm just good scum, in not. In mediocre town.
can the wolf just claim and stop slow rolling if its not killjoy, I wanna either be happy or cry sooner than later
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Curse Premiumsigh God damn Killjoy
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Curse PremiumSorry for dragging it out like that, wanted to take the line that ensured our victory instead of taking a risk
I will take this lose, and I will learn from it
what you do with this game is up to you
who knows