KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I think you're really overstating how clearing this should be for Silver. It was a blank vote to start the game off with no explanation other than pings behind it. It looks good for Silver later when Rhand flips, but doesn't convince anyone that Rhand's scum or put him in danger. It's easy distancing.
That's true, but Silver continues to push Rhand for ~halfway of Day 1, and he moved onto another buddy at the end there. If he moved his vote to Mindreaver or KCC and stayed there at the end then that's a different story, but I feel like scum Silver would have moved off on Rhand earlier.
Quote from fulcrum »
Nacho /asked/ Silver if his read on Rhand was changing and Silver didn't feel comfortable enough to back off of Rhand because me, Axel and Nacho were already starting to push Rhand. Also, Silver did try to start pivoting off Rhand and onto an easy mislynch in mindreaver before this:
...
Notice that he went after Mindreaver for lightly townreading Rhand, setting him up for a mislynch even if Rhand flipped first. Obvious scumplay is obvious.
Don't think you're right about this one - Nacho was townreading Rhand early here:
Post 260:
Quote from Nachomamma8 »
Light town read on Rhand's #194; in particular, the expanded empathy defense.
..and I think Nacho wanted to hear about if Silver's scum-read would be impacted by Rhand's big reads post.
I wouldn't call Axelrod's post (#308) and your posts (#313), (#320) as exactly "pushing Rhand". Nacho had a big post that he addressed to Rhand about his wall as well (#366) but I wouldn't call your narrative correct. Silver was the only person voting Rhand as of the votecount on that page.
Quote from Fulcrum »
Notice that he went after Mindreaver for lightly townreading Rhand, setting him up for a mislynch even if Rhand flipped first. Obvious scumplay is obvious.
You have me on this point; his post to Mindreaver did read as thought it was a attempt to springboard a vote onto him.
Quote from Fulcrum »
You cut off half the ******* post to just include the part that looks good for Silver, what the ****.
I cropped out only the part that I thought was relevant (Silver talking about Rhand). Apologies about that.
Quote from Fulcrum »
Silver was literally setting up the mindreaver push away from Rhand /in this post./ And his whole angle for approaching this is too clear himself. His focus is on himself, saying how Rhand must be tmiing him as town, so that if anyone latches onto the reasoning enough to kill Rhand they'll /have/ conclude Silver is town off of it, because the reasoning is based on Rhand knowing Silver is town. It's something then set up in their chat, to make it looks like Rhnad has a bit of tmi on Silver so they can never be together. And if anyone suspects Silver, they then wouldn't have wanted to go after Rhand, because they made it look like Silver flipping scum clears Rhand. It was all set up to clear one of them when the other flipped, without even making that flip much more likely.
Sure he says he's switching to Mindreaver, but I still think that they would have set this up more naturally if they were scum together. I think that Silver and Rhand would have gotten into an argument or had each scumread the other if they wanted to start distancing on Day 1. I think your reasoning here is a little faulty - I don't necessarily think that people would latch onto Silver's argument to vote Rhand, they would just cite some of Rhand's posts to vote him
Quote from Fulcrum »
That's not what they're doing, though. Rhand is townreading Silver, and Silver is doing a big song and dance about how he can never be scum with Rhand, but not actually pushing Rhand about it. Silver was at the head of a wagon on Rhand at this point, but was doing nothing to actually bury him, that was all me and Nacho. But he gets the credit and the unaligned read, while you push me for being on there later, as if it wasn't my logic that was one of the main threats to Rhand in the first place. If other people hadn't attacked Rhand for independent reasons, Silver's "pressure" would have done nothing but make them look unaligned.
You're right in that Silver isn't actively burying Rhand exactly at this point, but Silver is still voting Rhand when he could have easily moved to Mindreaver or anyone else. I can't say what Silver was going to do if, say, Gemma never posted her misgivings WRT Rhand, but I'm just going purely off the information presented to me.
Quote from fulcrum »
Alright, so let's actually look at what he did in this post.
1.He repeated the Tmi stuff, to clear himself and extended it to Nacho, which makes it sound more legit and doesn't hurt scum when everyone was townreading Nacho by then anyway.
Fair. Think it's reasonable for town Silver to have a read like this, personally
Quote from Fulcrum »
2. He restated one of my points against Rhand without adding anything:
Think this is correct, something I didn't notice because I wasn't in the game at the time.
Quote from Fulcrum »
3.Called Rhand's reads "fine" but progression weird, which was, again, just restating what I said but somehow making it a bit better for Rhand.
4. He linked two town in Axel and Vezok to Rhand as well, setting up mislynchs for whenever Rhand flips.
How exactly is this "guns blazing" Proph? Especially when there were already multiple people voting Rhand and both Gemma and I had cased him like a few posts above this.
I think this was guns blazing because it was when Silver started to seriously push his Rhand read and treat it as a scumread rather than go "yeah I think Rhand's scum but I'm gonna keep poking in these other directions".
You might disagree with me on this, but I think he would have probably used some different reasoning if he was scum with Rhand rather than agree with you and restate his prior reasoning. Feels like he would better position himself to bus Rhand rather than list reasoning from the top of his head, which is what he did here and I don't think he had any specific agenda in mind when making this anti-Rhand post.
Quote from Fulcrum »
I ******* love how you spin this as Silver "taking responsibility" for the Mind lynch, like it's not scummy for him to shove away from Rhand and onto the lynch he was angling for since the early game just because he posted reasoning for it. Silver literally said "the case is made several times over" instead of making the case for himself. He took no responsibility, he was just telling people to lynch the guy who wasn't here.
IMO he's taking responsibility here because he's voting Mindreaver and taking ownership of the fact that he might be telling people to lynch someone who isn't there. Again, I feel like if Silver was scum, he'd probably word it in a different way where he'd probably talk about how scummy Mindreaver was vs saying "yeah, we need to clear out the lurker here because everyone else is too town".
Quote from Fulcrum »
Just, disagree, Silver is setting up a mislynch after the Mindreaver mislynch, and backing off now that the thread as a whole has let go of Rhand and he feels like they look unaligned up. How else, exactly, should they have played this as mafia? Because Rhand had very little real lynch pressure from Silver, and Silver got to emphasize how they're not together over and over again? How is that not an ideal scenario for a scumteam that knows Rhand often dies early?
You have a fair point here; can't really argue against this.
Quote from Fulcrum »
Ask, and ye shall receive, witch.
tl:dr Proph omitted important context. Y'all need to actually read what happened for yourselves, stop letting scum craft the only narrative of the game.
OK, I admit that after reading this my townread on Silver has wavered a bit (as in, I can see a hypothetical world where Silver is mafia). Still think that if Silver is mafia that he pivots to KCC at EoD as opposed to slaying dkings unless he's like, super bus-heavy scum (which I guess is theoretically possible).
Would at least like Silver to respond to some of fulcrum's stuff, but I'll give this a long sleep and think on it
Sorry if some of the above isn't coherent, I am writing this at 2:45 AM so yeah.
What do you make of Silver being the first one aside from vezok to push Rhand Day 3?
It's just frustrating because I know that all the answers to this game are literally somewhere, but because this game is 5.9k posts it's literally impossible to concisely digest the game history because there's so much sh*t. Like, so much has gd happened this game, lol.
It's just frustrating because I know that all the answers to this game are literally somewhere, but because this game is 5.9k posts it's literally impossible to concisely digest the game history because there's so much sh*t. Like, so much has gd happened this game, lol.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I don't think I have anything to say about fulcrum's stuff, most of it is stuff that just looks how it looks
At the end of the day, if I was a wolf I just wouldn't have spent two game days needling my partner over giving me a weird townread while floundering for actual wolf reads to push, let alone keeping dkings in contention with my votes like I did when I could have literally just hammered KCC on D1 before Keldeo unvoted her; as a wolf I probably take that lunch and hide behind "tom changed my mind about needing to lunch" every time
I guess if someone has specific questions about the thought process behind a post I made or a thing I did, I can try to answer those but a lot of those posts are from 2+ months ago so I can't guarantee I remember
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I was surprised with a parent teacher conference and was smacked with a bunch of extra work. I can't make heads or tails of this game but ya know what
Washington isn't going to listen
To disciplined dissidence
This is the difference
This kid is out!
vote fulcrum vote fulcrum
There are four ******* scum options in the 6 at this juncture but I'm willing to have been pocketed by Proph if he's one of them. **** it. Scum played hard.
I'm not up for waffling. If we lose, we lose, but I'm not checking my phone after I drop off my kid for a nice evening and I just want this done. I haven't been able to play this as much as I would've liked, would really have preferred to keep up to yalls standards.
I dont feel good about the game I played, sucks to possibly go out this way, but I had some fun. Thanks for tolerating.
so if Proph doesnt insta vote here
then we will know its either Fulcrum/X (X presumably being Killjoy) or Silver/Asta in a couple hours,
I aint gunna stress over this anymore
if you are a wolf, you manipulated me beautifully with your posts, and if you are town, sorry that this game has taken so much out of you, I feel you there
I don't think there is much else to look at, at this point
I'm not going to argue that Fulcrum's posts were particularly great today
like the small things we have
the Rhand/Killjoy battle
Fulcrum and Killjoy both pushed Rhand but the read ended up disappearing in the wind
DK shades Asta in a way that I don' think comes from partners
DK shaded Proph in a way that could go either way, but he isnt a wolf unless he is a wolf with Fulcrum, and he definitely had the opportunity to pursue avenue's that werent bussing
The killjoy/Fulcrum interactions are probably the biggest problem for me, but that's probably the red herring that ****ed my progression today
@Fulcrum
at one point you claimed that KCC confirmed her target in the neighborchat, and either you just misremembered and believed she did, or you made that up to look better, but like she never confirmed anything, we just talked about it
I even double-checked to see if maybe I was wrong, but I didnt see it anywhere
@Asta
split ur vote between fulcrum/Silver
at this point I am just following Proph, like his conclusion was the only reason I caught DK, and if he is wrong here, then ohh well
we both did our best
like if its Silver/Asta, then Asta is literally throwing his chances right now
and I don't believe he does that, knowing we are almost 100% going to end up lynching fulcrum
Squeeze gambit is when the last two members of the mafia team fight in f6/f5 lylo so when one of them gets lynched the other looks clear in the f4/f3 lylo
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Curse PremiumDon't think you're right about this one - Nacho was townreading Rhand early here:
Post 260:
..and I think Nacho wanted to hear about if Silver's scum-read would be impacted by Rhand's big reads post.
I wouldn't call Axelrod's post (#308) and your posts (#313), (#320) as exactly "pushing Rhand". Nacho had a big post that he addressed to Rhand about his wall as well (#366) but I wouldn't call your narrative correct. Silver was the only person voting Rhand as of the votecount on that page.
You have me on this point; his post to Mindreaver did read as thought it was a attempt to springboard a vote onto him.
I cropped out only the part that I thought was relevant (Silver talking about Rhand). Apologies about that.
Sure he says he's switching to Mindreaver, but I still think that they would have set this up more naturally if they were scum together. I think that Silver and Rhand would have gotten into an argument or had each scumread the other if they wanted to start distancing on Day 1. I think your reasoning here is a little faulty - I don't necessarily think that people would latch onto Silver's argument to vote Rhand, they would just cite some of Rhand's posts to vote him
You're right in that Silver isn't actively burying Rhand exactly at this point, but Silver is still voting Rhand when he could have easily moved to Mindreaver or anyone else. I can't say what Silver was going to do if, say, Gemma never posted her misgivings WRT Rhand, but I'm just going purely off the information presented to me.
Fair. Think it's reasonable for town Silver to have a read like this, personally
Think this is correct, something I didn't notice because I wasn't in the game at the time.
I think this was guns blazing because it was when Silver started to seriously push his Rhand read and treat it as a scumread rather than go "yeah I think Rhand's scum but I'm gonna keep poking in these other directions".
You might disagree with me on this, but I think he would have probably used some different reasoning if he was scum with Rhand rather than agree with you and restate his prior reasoning. Feels like he would better position himself to bus Rhand rather than list reasoning from the top of his head, which is what he did here and I don't think he had any specific agenda in mind when making this anti-Rhand post.
IMO he's taking responsibility here because he's voting Mindreaver and taking ownership of the fact that he might be telling people to lynch someone who isn't there. Again, I feel like if Silver was scum, he'd probably word it in a different way where he'd probably talk about how scummy Mindreaver was vs saying "yeah, we need to clear out the lurker here because everyone else is too town".
You have a fair point here; can't really argue against this.
OK, I admit that after reading this my townread on Silver has wavered a bit (as in, I can see a hypothetical world where Silver is mafia). Still think that if Silver is mafia that he pivots to KCC at EoD as opposed to slaying dkings unless he's like, super bus-heavy scum (which I guess is theoretically possible).
Would at least like Silver to respond to some of fulcrum's stuff, but I'll give this a long sleep and think on it
Sorry if some of the above isn't coherent, I am writing this at 2:45 AM so yeah.
What do you make of Silver being the first one aside from vezok to push Rhand Day 3?
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Curse PremiumMore rereading tomorrow I suppose
It's just frustrating because I know that all the answers to this game are literally somewhere, but because this game is 5.9k posts it's literally impossible to concisely digest the game history because there's so much sh*t. Like, so much has gd happened this game, lol.
UP TO ABOUT POST 3500!
At the end of the day, if I was a wolf I just wouldn't have spent two game days needling my partner over giving me a weird townread while floundering for actual wolf reads to push, let alone keeping dkings in contention with my votes like I did when I could have literally just hammered KCC on D1 before Keldeo unvoted her; as a wolf I probably take that lunch and hide behind "tom changed my mind about needing to lunch" every time
I guess if someone has specific questions about the thought process behind a post I made or a thing I did, I can try to answer those but a lot of those posts are from 2+ months ago so I can't guarantee I remember
Going to bed, see you all in the morning
Washington isn't going to listen
To disciplined dissidence
This is the difference
This kid is out!
vote fulcrum
vote fulcrum
There are four ******* scum options in the 6 at this juncture but I'm willing to have been pocketed by Proph if he's one of them. **** it. Scum played hard.
I'm not up for waffling. If we lose, we lose, but I'm not checking my phone after I drop off my kid for a nice evening and I just want this done. I haven't been able to play this as much as I would've liked, would really have preferred to keep up to yalls standards.
I dont feel good about the game I played, sucks to possibly go out this way, but I had some fun. Thanks for tolerating.
then we will know its either Fulcrum/X (X presumably being Killjoy) or Silver/Asta in a couple hours,
I aint gunna stress over this anymore
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Curse Premium-
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Curse PremiumPlan on doing final reread tonight
Also if you're scum you've played this day absolutely marvellously
I'm sorry I couldn't get there on you.
also Proph is town, god damn my hedging on that slot... uggh
Asta/Silver or Killjoy/Fulcrum, outside worlds where this its just a suboptimal bus fiesta
if anything I played like a total trashbag
and I was an absolute dick to Vaimes
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Curse PremiumSigh
Yep Proph town unless he's with fulcrum (I doubt that anyway but technically possible)
It's just fulcrum/killjoy here 99.9% of the time
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Curse PremiumKill me now
Basically no one can be wolves with anyone except fulcrum at this point except me/Asta so she's always a wolf
99.9% her partner is Killjoy, it explains the most night action nonsense
The Current Season is Summer.
With 6 Alive it takes 4 to lynch.
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Curse PremiumBlegh
I'm not going to argue that Fulcrum's posts were particularly great today
like the small things we have
the Rhand/Killjoy battle
Fulcrum and Killjoy both pushed Rhand but the read ended up disappearing in the wind
DK shades Asta in a way that I don' think comes from partners
DK shaded Proph in a way that could go either way, but he isnt a wolf unless he is a wolf with Fulcrum, and he definitely had the opportunity to pursue avenue's that werent bussing
The killjoy/Fulcrum interactions are probably the biggest problem for me, but that's probably the red herring that ****ed my progression today
unvote
Fulcrum's reaction feels town. Proph is definitely town. He could have hammered fulcrum for the win.
We have two hours. Do I hammer silver?
at one point you claimed that KCC confirmed her target in the neighborchat, and either you just misremembered and believed she did, or you made that up to look better, but like she never confirmed anything, we just talked about it
I even double-checked to see if maybe I was wrong, but I didnt see it anywhere
vote: no lynch
@Asta I would like your vote on someone, but im not leaving the hammer to you
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Curse Premiumsplit ur vote between fulcrum/Silver
at this point I am just following Proph, like his conclusion was the only reason I caught DK, and if he is wrong here, then ohh well
we both did our best
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Curse PremiumThis all makes no sense
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Curse PremiumMan that fulcrum rebuttal of my case last night just made me super unsure of what's going on
don't hedge you are my last hope
and I don't believe he does that, knowing we are almost 100% going to end up lynching fulcrum
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Curse Premium-
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Curse Premium30 minutes should be a healthy amount of time
please split your vote between Fulcrum, Silver, so me and Proph can get a lynch off
or we are just no lynching here
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Curse PremiumBut ill do some clearer thinking when I'm not on my phone
****
vote fulcrum
vote silver