Did you target me with a roleblock assuming it wouldn't stop a passive ability? Excuse you?
I did, my ability is specifically worded to prevent actions and not abilities so I thought it wouldn’t do anything. I probably should have checked instead of assuming, I’m sorry.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I pick a player. That player isn't delayed, but when someone next targets them, that action isn't delayed either, but when that other someone uses another action, that action is the one delayed.
So, say I choose Player A on N1. Then, no one else targets A on N1, or on N2. But then on N3, player B targets A. That action hits A normally, but on N4, any action B makes is delayed to N5.
And her actions were apparently bus driving Axel and Nacho n1, and blocking Proph n2.
Killjoy, when you say someone has to be lying, is that limited to between me/Proph or is it a more complicated thing/you'll claim whenever you roleclaim? Proph being roleblocked is vouched for by KCC when I don't think they're w/w, and to a lesser extent dkings not receiving anything.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I'll claim, Killjoy absolutely needs to claim though
-------------
I'm Aeolus, Town Investigator
I have no Spring ability
My Summer ability targets a player and gives me the name of an ability they have that can only be used during the next season (Winds of Portence)
My Fall ability targets a dead player and a living one and tells me if the living player ever targeted the dead one (Winds of Knowledge)
My Winter ability targets a player and tells me if they were targeted during a previous Night (so I target someone and pick N1, learn whether they were targeted that night or not) (Winds of Past)
-------------
N1 (Summer) I targeted Proph and learned his Spring ability name
N2 (Spring) I did nothing
N3 (Fall) I targeted Gemma and Keldeo, Keldeo hasn't targeted Gemma this game
That means either Killjoy is the day killer, the kill doesn't target, or the kill is stapled to one of these other roles
Killjoy – day 1 we had that back and fourth with him and Rhand, and Rhand was certain he was wolf, because town!killjoy should be less confident? I mean what if this is true, what if this is just Killjoy tmi’ing Rhand as a wolf, possibly trying to do some early scum theater. I can’t recall if Rhand ever revisited Killjoy, so I will come back to this. Placeholder read, since I still think Killjoy is one of the most natural players in this game. The biggest problem here is like Rhand goes from being a wolf to being rarely talked about again
these are my rough thoughts on Killjoy, and this has been bugging me for a while
also given that he is still unclaimed, I believe there is a high chance he is the daykiller
Rough thoughts on Proph
Proph – I am sorry but I still think Cross feels super uninformed here. Proph who takes the time to reread the entirety of the game before posting, who is super careful, just doesn’t even notice DK’s claim was confirmed? The only thing I even have on scum!Proph is that his volume and effort doesn’t feel like his other town games, and I don’t really have an answer to why that is. But like idk if I can ignore it given the high level of volume between the likes of this game and Phantom of the Opera on my site. I really hope he becomes more of active voice this phase so I can solidify my read on this slot. For now I am going with my gut and putting him as a town lean. Also he pushed something, that’s more than I can say about a few others here.
The other world is one where he is maliciously trying to push DK, but this is why more real time from him, cause its hard for me to confidently say he is town here especially given the PoE
Vaimes/Fulcrum
Vaimes – We can start off with the mechanical aspects of both Vaimes and Rhands ability, as they are very similar, and both very weak together on wolves, since that’s two abilities that require them to take from either dead or alive town, when town abilities don’t even really help them? That is unless Vaimes is lying, which is a possibility. Vaimes’ role just feels so god damn neutral honestly, since he’s basically a trader who steals from people and gives it to others for a price? Especially the whole “If I full claim I lose my ability.” Honestly, I hate this slot, since he is actually playing more to not die, than playing to solve the game. But the whole Rhand voting Vaimes at the end confuses me, and Vaimes decided to pull Rhand out of his PoE, because he can’t read him? This slot annoys me beyond belief, but given the fact that he probably isn’t in the PoE we should be focusing on, we got one wolf, and the mechanical stuff I stated, He shouldn’t be the focus anyways.
Fulcrum – first let’s talk about the whole counter claiming thing, wolves don’t do that, like unless he is trying to hide under the guise of us believing a wolf would never do that, and that’s some wild 4d chess, and probably unnecessary over just not claiming at all. Some things make me tilt my head, one being, “If you wanna kill Vaimes, then kill me first”, and I am trying to understand the town mindset in offering your life for a player you don’t know the alignment of, even if you are confident. Her focusing on why certain things happened, aka night kills and day kills and roleblocks and so on, is just wine, and not dependable information, so I really dislike some of her focus on that. Some of her questions and points are kind wild if she is a wolf, like saying Proph might be an arsonist, or “what if they gave the night kill up for a day kill instead.” I do think some of her pushes are easy, and her focus on Vaimes is a big question mark since its not optimal play as either alignment. In the past I stated I always thought Vaimes/Fulcrum were aligned, but given Rhand’s flip making it unlikely that Vaimes is a wolf, and a wolf probably never defending their partner in the way she is defending Vaimes, I think it comes down to either they are both town, or Fulcrum is a wolf trying to pocket Vaimes. But Idk if I believe that. Also I remember there were some emotional responses that I like from Fulcrum
Conclusion: Literally on the border of being a wolf that is opening wolfing which is the problem here, because nothing makes me believe this isnt possible
Silver –
The whole not claiming his whole role kinda bothers me though? There are 3 investigative roles, and I really don’t believe they can all be town, and I hate that Silver keeps talking about setup balance between investigative roles when we don’t even know what his role actually is. He states that Axel’s role not being town means town doesn’t have enough investigative roles, but I don’t get why he doesn’t do the same diligence for Fulcrum? Also something about asking for a mass claim when he hasn’t full-claimed, irks me. “Between us we make like one full investigative role” ok? Each investigative role is good at something, and it makes the game less swingy when the investigatives exist over multiple players, but game design usually leads to a wolf having something to find information with. A watcher is relatively weak as a wolf role. I will agree there, and fulcrum’s role just gives a lot of random info that I think is kinda bad for a wolf? So what are you? You make this large post about players and the roles and who possibly can have the day killer, with this at the top, “Keldeo and Killjoy haven't claimed at all from what I remember.”, so why does it not cross your mind that one of them might be the day killer? You seem to be afraid to push the investigative roles? How exactly is Fulcrum pocketing you? I think you are trying super hard to hide TMI. The strongest case I can remember from you is your ISO of Keldeo, but it doesn’t go anywhere. This slot has volume, and it feels like he is putting effort it, but I just can’t call this slot lock town yet, I still think hes missing this emotional oomph to his posts. Like there are a big chunk of his posts that are just him analyzing wagons, making PoEs (terrible ones), and being fixated on the mechanics, and only a few posts where he actually talks about a player in a way that I feel is real. Conclusion: I don’t want to call you town, but I also really don’t want to call you a wolf yet, since I am trying to take my time. I am starting to get the feeling that you are using VCA/Mechanics, to make it easier to fake your reads and PoEs. But on the other end, you have content, and I just don’t know honestly. I think you on the border pushing more towards the wolf side, but I am scared to push that in the case I am wrong.
KCC – Why the hell are u shading Proph about his actions doing jack *****, especially given that you roleblocked him the previous night?
1 So we got her early, “My role is really wolfy soft”, given that its not optimal wolf play to put yourself in the open like this, and I think most wolves don’t play like this, I think this is likely to come more so from a town
2 She smears fulcrum because fulcrum is smearing Tom because she believes Tom’s posts are easy to digest while fulcrum doesn’t? I think this is just an easy thing to say if you are informed and already know the mindset that Tom is coming from?
3 The specific parts about her claim that have this tone that feels fake is,
“Drumroll please
The RB can't stop the NK!!!!
I'd be such an amazing scum JoaT... except I'm town”
4 Not to mention she really does have some of the most wolfy abilities in this game
5 I don’t get why she randomly turned on me, I am still debating if she really believes the slip or if shes just trying to push something that she believes is a slip maliciously, and pushing me literally holds no benefit from a wolf stand point since she knows I aint getting lynched, if this is her attempt to save Rhand, its pretty bad
I don’t think I have the skill to adequately place KCC tbh, but I think mechanically its fair to believe she is more likely to flip a wolf than not. But like nothing really screams that she has to be a wolf
Vezok/Grape, the likelihood of this grouping being wolves is almost 0, not even solely because of the mason claim, but because I really don’t feel like they are malicious at all, Vezok isn’t the greatest player, but I can usually see when he is trying to be reactive rather than proactive. All I need to do is read Vezok here, because if I don’t think he is a wolf, then neither are wolves
Asta/DK, honestly the whole confirmed BG thing really confuses me, since DK knows nothing about it, but like what does wolf!Asta gain from this? I guess he could give his partner a free town read here if they are both wolves, and almost lock him as town but like, its just as dangerous as the mason claim, and its definitely unneeded. Or Asta is a wolf and knows DK targeted him because of other mechanical information he gained from the other wolves, but I really don’t think so. Tonally speaking, Asta looks super clean, he feels like someone who just believes everything he is saying regardless of if its right or wrong, and isn’t try to push malicious in the thread. I might invoke a Sir Chris read here a bit, and say giving a wolf a public double vote is probably dangerous. Points for DK? Well for one, he is our only claimed protective, if you decide to separate manipulative and protections. I don’t really want to deep dive DK here, since I think he just town here. I think he is exactly like he was in Modern Mafia. But if anyone wants to discuss DK here, I am happy to listen
I still have not finished my thoughts on Axel/Keldeo, those will hopefully be finished by tomorrow evening
@keldeo:I may have just remembered something. So I might be wrong.
@kcc: did you block proph? I feel like I remember you claiming that.
@silver: why do you think I need to claim? If you want to know if I did or influenced something I'll say, but I would really prefer not to claim just yet. I don't think it's necessary.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Alright, so like I said, I have no summer ability.
My fall passive ability is Dream of Certainty. When fall starts, I learn the names of two players with abilities restricted to those seasons. Those were Silver and Proph. Kind of useless, but it does confirm that Silver has a fall ability.
My winter passive ability is Dream of Naming. I learn a random ability name from Winter when Winter starts.
My spring ability is the weird one and the best one. It's the Dreams of Future. Every Night in Spring, I get the name of one non-mafia player who made an action. That person could still be 3p, but is guaranteed to not be mafia. As I hinted at strongly yesterDay, that's Killjoy. He's 100% not on the scumteam, he should not have to claim if he doesn't want to.
I gave my spring ability to Vaimes yesterDay, after I got to use it once. This means he can confirm my ability is real, and forces mafia to kill him before next Spring or risk him getting another confirmed town. The strongest potential usage of this ability next spring is having only one person take an action. Either they are confirmed town by Vaimes the next Day, they are confirmed mafia by Vaimes, or Vaimes is killed, taking away a question mark for town. If Vaimes is scum, which I very much doubt, but w/e, it forces him to tie his alignment to another person.
I used Vaimes' track to track keldeo last Night. He didn't target anyone, so his story also matches up wrt that.
The last important thing is that I think Vaimes' item made it so I can't take an action toNight. This doesn't really matter for me, because it doesn't stop my passive, but it's another roleblock action in this game, in addition to KCC, Tom, Proph and Keldeo and now Vaimes.
Don't think the daykiller can be Proph, unless it's somehow related to the orbs? Like, his role is so public and complicated as is, I don't see how that could be tacked on.
Wall incoming, but I think there’s enough info now to provide an early reads post.
Silver:
He’s having fun in RVS and his reaction to Shadow in #14 feels pure. I would be very surprised if that comes from scum!Silver because I don’t expect him to think about a post like that as scum and craft an answer when it’s totally not necessary.
His mixed feelings from Nacho pushing him are normal.
His vote on me seems to come out of nowhere, but when he explains it, he’s voting me for what town always mislynch me for when I get mislynched: my posts feel weird.
Verdict: town
Lastwhisper:
He starts his own sidegame instead of playing the game at first, and then calls Nacho wolfy for his reaction to KCC, which I think was a very pure reaction. Nacho gets more flak for that though; too much to all come from scum.
He doesn’t like tom’s gimmick, but his reaction to it is better than Axelrod’s: he merely says he’s not a fan of the gimmick and that tom doesn’t give him town vibes. Ergo, he’s not calling the gimmick itself scummy, which is good.
His response to Vaimes where he uses the word “probably” talking about his tells not being AI bugs me bigtime. It looks like he jokingly wants to get rid of Vaimes’ push.
His reads in #163 don’t look like real reads. He doesn’t give a real read on both Vaimes and Silver and waffles on Nacho. The only thing there is a townread on KJ.
A lot of scum!pings there, but his later posts are suddenly way better. I like how he questions Silver’s Rhand vote and how he starts real worldbuilding and pressuring Vezok.
Verdict: lean town (if he’s scum he won’t keep up his new posting)
Shadow:
Not enough posts for a read. Null.
I can read him very well though if he actually posts.
Vaimes:
He is in jokey spam-mode, which is a good sign. He knows his own meta though, and I’ve seen him make a whole town believe he’s town before.
There are a few things that trouble me: He voted Nacho, who was low hanging fruit at that point. He claims the existence of a neutral. And the things he’s accusing LW of are dependent of the alignment of the ones LW is interacting with.
I do like that he goes from Nacho to Axel now.
Verdict: Not sure. I’m going to classify him as null for now and will see where he goes with his Axel vote.
@Vaimes: talk more about Axel please. And what is your LW read right now?
KCC:
Claiming a scummy role from the get-go is the townie thing to do. Scum doesn’t like locking themselves into a claim from the start. I know a few players that do things like that, but KCC doesn’t strike me as one of those, unless she is consciously changing up her game. Which is totally unnecessary because she hasn’t played that many games recently that we all know her meta.
I like her Nacho reaction and have a total mindmeld with her question to Vaimes in #200
Verdict: town
Vezok:
Again a Nacho voter. The fact that she says he agrees with Vaimes on Nacho probably means that she isn’t scum with Vaimes. Saying later on that Nacho is scum because her posts don’t make sense points to a scummy mindset: not making sense is not a scumtell but something scum looks for when trying to get town lynched (I know that all too well). Also not a fan of the randomness of people she gives reads on.
Her vote on Mind is weak and using omgus as extra confidence is again a scummy mindset: omgus in itself is never a tell but often used by scum during fake hunting.
There’s a possible link with Fulcrum because of the way she defends her.
Verdict: scum
@Vezok: you said you gave a (non)read on LW because of the recent scumgame with him. I was also scum there. Why not give a read on me there?
Dkings:
No posts. Null.
Mindreaver:
I like his self-meta because it’s true. And if he does this as scum after a hiatus, that would be extremely dumb because now he has to keep up his energy level.
I mindmeld with him about Nacho and Vezok.
Verdict: town
Axelrod:
The fact that he chose a semi-serious RVS target is bothersome. What is worse is that he uses KCC’s later posts to strengthen that vote. And then he calls tom’s gimmick in itself scummy.
Verdict: scum
KillJoy:
He’s very easy to read as town, and this is town!him.
I wonder if he can mimick his towngame as scum. I haven’t seen him as scum in a loooong time. But I doubt he can. His towngame is extremely pure.
Verdict: town
Tom:
He is throwing out reads all the time, and with the songs he has to really think about them. All his reads are pretty much fleshed out. I know tom is capable of a lot as scum, but this would be too amazing to be true. I’m convinced this is town!tom.
He reminds me of that game where used animal behavior to talk about all of us, which also gave deep insight.
Verdict: town
Slothful:
Some of his questions feel like stating the obvious, but others seem like he’s trying to figure out the game. Not enough there for a read.
Verdict: null
Gemma:
Not a lot of explanation in her posts, but I liked all the votes she cast when she cast them (apart from the brief tom vote).
When she does post longer sentences, I tend to mindmeld with her (Vezok, the tom gimmick).
Verdict: town
Nacho:
I think the reaction she gave to KCC could come from either alignment, with a bigger chance of coming from town. Scum demanding claims on page 1 is pretty darn dumb, and Nacho isn’t dumb.
I like where her vote is right now.
I don’t like the mindreaver vote and the continued KCC pressure.
Verdict: lean town
Fulcrum:
Her first post feels like she distances herself from town a bit with how she talks about tom. Probably NAI though because she hasn’t been active on the site for a while.
I like how she wants Nacho to stop about KCC, which is indeed a needless distraction in thread by now.
Not much more there yet. I’ll need more to form a read.
Verdict: null
Asta:
Nothing really there. It bothers me that she did read the game when she posted #293 and didn’t comment on anything apart from answering a question directed at her.
Can be newb scum that doesn’t really know how to play scum.
Verdict: lean scum
Town
Silver
KCC
Mindreaver
KJ
Tom
Gemma
Lean town
LW
Nacho
Null
Shadow
Vaimes
Dkings
Slothful
fulcrum
Lean scum
Asta
Scum
Vezok
Axelrod
There almost has to be scum in the non-posters. Unless I’m wrong about one of my townclears, but this looks like a good base to start off with.
I found this post from Rhand. The people who come out the worst from this are Keldeo and Axelrod.
I'd like Vaimes to confirm the wording on fulcrum's ability. I also kinda want to just lynch axelrod.
There's too many people who are kinda confirmed town. This is a pretty weird game.
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Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
think if I dont walk away from this thread I am going to get mad again, cause I really dislike how fulcrum has the game in the palm of hands
and I dont have anyone that I can confidently bounce my thoughs off of
think if I dont walk away from this thread I am going to get mad again, cause I really dislike how fulcrum has the game in the palm of hands
and I dont have anyone that I can confidently bounce my thoughs off of
Uh, ok, sorry. Let me know if there's something I can do to help, I guess?
Don't think the daykiller can be Proph, unless it's somehow related to the orbs? Like, his role is so public and complicated as is, I don't see how that could be tacked on.
I feel like this is true of most of the roles?
Like, it's almost definitely not Vaimes or Proph or Whisper
Axel and KCC have complete roles that feel weird with a day kill included
Think it has to be either dkingsland or Asta (or it was Rhand and the ability didn't flip, I guess?)
think if I dont walk away from this thread I am going to get mad again, cause I really dislike how fulcrum has the game in the palm of hands
and I dont have anyone that I can confidently bounce my thoughs off of
Uh, ok, sorry. Let me know if there's something I can do to help, I guess?
not be in this game I guess?
There is so little paranioa this game and its actually obnoxious
"ohh new mechanical information, I believe that"
Dk could just have some kind of message send ability, a daykiller could fit in there.
I'm always skeptical of people who have a "alignment cop on nonmafia" type abilities because mafia already know who's not mafia and so doesn't need an ability to do it. So fulcrum could also be the daykiller.
I can't think of anyone else it might fit into unless like silver suggested it's just stapled on somewhere.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Do you think she's a wolf with Killjoy? If not why would she clear him of being the daykiller when I had him mechanically pinned?
u know whats harsh is the only person that I can bounce my thoughts off of, is Vezok
maybe DK but his posts once every 3 years, and Asta is not a strong player, no offense to him
you know whats harsh, this meta surrounding me, to the point where I feel like people just think I am a troll
does that not cross your mind? tell me? Like I want to listen to everyone, but it feels like no one wants to listen to me
Why is fulcrum a town lean?
killjoy should be claiming lmao, like there is literally no ******* reason to believe that all of this mechanical information is real
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Do you think she's a wolf with Killjoy? If not why would she clear him of being the daykiller when I had him mechanically pinned?
u know whats harsh is the only person that I can bounce my thoughts off of, is Vezok
maybe DK but his posts once every 3 years, and Asta is not a strong player, no offense to him
you know whats harsh, this meta surrounding me, to the point where I feel like people just think I am a troll
does that not cross your mind? tell me? Like I want to listen to everyone, but it feels like no one wants to listen to me
Why is fulcrum a town lean?
killjoy should be claiming lmao, like there is literally no ******* reason to believe that all of this mechanical information is real
I'm listening, dude, you just don't trust me lol, and I don't think you're a troll I just don't follow your thought process very well, I guess
And I don't have super solid reasons for fulcrum to be town outside of her role, but I think her role is a good enough reason.
Do you agree she has to be a wolf with Vaimes if she is one?
Like, most of this game send to be town reading me for independent reasons. You don't have to agree, or believe them, but you're basically saying "Y'ALL ARE WRONG" without any actual reason to scum read me. You seem to be trying to convince everyone they're wrong without addressing their reasons.
Line, talk to me about why I'm scum, last, that's not like a gut read or bad feeling or whatever.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@killjoy
I have to go through your iso still, I only posted rough thoughts that I got from early interactions with Rhand
I need to finish you, proph, axel, and Keldeo
@Silver
I dont really know, like it was my original PoE in my notes before I scraped it, but I keep talking myself out of it, because clearly I cant say I am sure on what players like Keldeo/Proph/Axel will flip
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
So you admit the pushes are disingenuous. You do not currently have a reason, but your pushing it pretty hard.
I mean I will die a happy man if the team is exactly vaimes/fulcrum/Killjoy
outside Keldeo/Silver, I have micro reasons to believe other's are town
its not me not having a case, which I do, I think fulcrum is opening ******* wolfing, I think he is hard defending his two partners
I think you are being an ass to me for no reason, I think you should claim
but more so, its just me having reasons to believe others are town, even if they are small
and also a lot of me not wanting to push something so hard that still has a chance of being wrong for the health of the game
like Logically we should still be pushing in the PoE of keldeo/Proph/Axel, but I dont think thats necessarily the best for me
and if you see this as me being disingenuous, then you do you
you need to stop shading me honestly or just vote me
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I would like Silver to at least partially claim, then I will fullclaim.
I believe it was "bus drive, role block, delay, and complicated delay"
There's also name, ability names, etc.
Killjoy, I think she claimed most of it, but it's all spread out:
And her actions were apparently bus driving Axel and Nacho n1, and blocking Proph n2.
Killjoy, when you say someone has to be lying, is that limited to between me/Proph or is it a more complicated thing/you'll claim whenever you roleclaim? Proph being roleblocked is vouched for by KCC when I don't think they're w/w, and to a lesser extent dkings not receiving anything.
crisis averted
I do not think this is super relevant, but maybe?
I am also going to sleep right now.
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I'm Aeolus, Town Investigator
I have no Spring ability
My Summer ability targets a player and gives me the name of an ability they have that can only be used during the next season (Winds of Portence)
My Fall ability targets a dead player and a living one and tells me if the living player ever targeted the dead one (Winds of Knowledge)
My Winter ability targets a player and tells me if they were targeted during a previous Night (so I target someone and pick N1, learn whether they were targeted that night or not) (Winds of Past)
-------------
N1 (Summer) I targeted Proph and learned his Spring ability name
N2 (Spring) I did nothing
N3 (Fall) I targeted Gemma and Keldeo, Keldeo hasn't targeted Gemma this game
That means either Killjoy is the day killer, the kill doesn't target, or the kill is stapled to one of these other roles
these are my rough thoughts on Killjoy, and this has been bugging me for a while
also given that he is still unclaimed, I believe there is a high chance he is the daykiller
Rough thoughts on Proph
Proph – I am sorry but I still think Cross feels super uninformed here. Proph who takes the time to reread the entirety of the game before posting, who is super careful, just doesn’t even notice DK’s claim was confirmed? The only thing I even have on scum!Proph is that his volume and effort doesn’t feel like his other town games, and I don’t really have an answer to why that is. But like idk if I can ignore it given the high level of volume between the likes of this game and Phantom of the Opera on my site. I really hope he becomes more of active voice this phase so I can solidify my read on this slot. For now I am going with my gut and putting him as a town lean. Also he pushed something, that’s more than I can say about a few others here.
The other world is one where he is maliciously trying to push DK, but this is why more real time from him, cause its hard for me to confidently say he is town here especially given the PoE
Vaimes/Fulcrum
Vaimes – We can start off with the mechanical aspects of both Vaimes and Rhands ability, as they are very similar, and both very weak together on wolves, since that’s two abilities that require them to take from either dead or alive town, when town abilities don’t even really help them? That is unless Vaimes is lying, which is a possibility. Vaimes’ role just feels so god damn neutral honestly, since he’s basically a trader who steals from people and gives it to others for a price? Especially the whole “If I full claim I lose my ability.” Honestly, I hate this slot, since he is actually playing more to not die, than playing to solve the game. But the whole Rhand voting Vaimes at the end confuses me, and Vaimes decided to pull Rhand out of his PoE, because he can’t read him? This slot annoys me beyond belief, but given the fact that he probably isn’t in the PoE we should be focusing on, we got one wolf, and the mechanical stuff I stated, He shouldn’t be the focus anyways.
Fulcrum – first let’s talk about the whole counter claiming thing, wolves don’t do that, like unless he is trying to hide under the guise of us believing a wolf would never do that, and that’s some wild 4d chess, and probably unnecessary over just not claiming at all. Some things make me tilt my head, one being, “If you wanna kill Vaimes, then kill me first”, and I am trying to understand the town mindset in offering your life for a player you don’t know the alignment of, even if you are confident. Her focusing on why certain things happened, aka night kills and day kills and roleblocks and so on, is just wine, and not dependable information, so I really dislike some of her focus on that. Some of her questions and points are kind wild if she is a wolf, like saying Proph might be an arsonist, or “what if they gave the night kill up for a day kill instead.” I do think some of her pushes are easy, and her focus on Vaimes is a big question mark since its not optimal play as either alignment. In the past I stated I always thought Vaimes/Fulcrum were aligned, but given Rhand’s flip making it unlikely that Vaimes is a wolf, and a wolf probably never defending their partner in the way she is defending Vaimes, I think it comes down to either they are both town, or Fulcrum is a wolf trying to pocket Vaimes. But Idk if I believe that. Also I remember there were some emotional responses that I like from Fulcrum
Conclusion: Literally on the border of being a wolf that is opening wolfing which is the problem here, because nothing makes me believe this isnt possible
The whole not claiming his whole role kinda bothers me though? There are 3 investigative roles, and I really don’t believe they can all be town, and I hate that Silver keeps talking about setup balance between investigative roles when we don’t even know what his role actually is. He states that Axel’s role not being town means town doesn’t have enough investigative roles, but I don’t get why he doesn’t do the same diligence for Fulcrum? Also something about asking for a mass claim when he hasn’t full-claimed, irks me. “Between us we make like one full investigative role” ok? Each investigative role is good at something, and it makes the game less swingy when the investigatives exist over multiple players, but game design usually leads to a wolf having something to find information with. A watcher is relatively weak as a wolf role. I will agree there, and fulcrum’s role just gives a lot of random info that I think is kinda bad for a wolf? So what are you? You make this large post about players and the roles and who possibly can have the day killer, with this at the top, “Keldeo and Killjoy haven't claimed at all from what I remember.”, so why does it not cross your mind that one of them might be the day killer? You seem to be afraid to push the investigative roles? How exactly is Fulcrum pocketing you? I think you are trying super hard to hide TMI. The strongest case I can remember from you is your ISO of Keldeo, but it doesn’t go anywhere. This slot has volume, and it feels like he is putting effort it, but I just can’t call this slot lock town yet, I still think hes missing this emotional oomph to his posts. Like there are a big chunk of his posts that are just him analyzing wagons, making PoEs (terrible ones), and being fixated on the mechanics, and only a few posts where he actually talks about a player in a way that I feel is real. Conclusion: I don’t want to call you town, but I also really don’t want to call you a wolf yet, since I am trying to take my time. I am starting to get the feeling that you are using VCA/Mechanics, to make it easier to fake your reads and PoEs. But on the other end, you have content, and I just don’t know honestly. I think you on the border pushing more towards the wolf side, but I am scared to push that in the case I am wrong.
KCC – Why the hell are u shading Proph about his actions doing jack *****, especially given that you roleblocked him the previous night?
1 So we got her early, “My role is really wolfy soft”, given that its not optimal wolf play to put yourself in the open like this, and I think most wolves don’t play like this, I think this is likely to come more so from a town
2 She smears fulcrum because fulcrum is smearing Tom because she believes Tom’s posts are easy to digest while fulcrum doesn’t? I think this is just an easy thing to say if you are informed and already know the mindset that Tom is coming from?
3 The specific parts about her claim that have this tone that feels fake is,
“Drumroll please
The RB can't stop the NK!!!!
I'd be such an amazing scum JoaT... except I'm town”
4 Not to mention she really does have some of the most wolfy abilities in this game
5 I don’t get why she randomly turned on me, I am still debating if she really believes the slip or if shes just trying to push something that she believes is a slip maliciously, and pushing me literally holds no benefit from a wolf stand point since she knows I aint getting lynched, if this is her attempt to save Rhand, its pretty bad
I don’t think I have the skill to adequately place KCC tbh, but I think mechanically its fair to believe she is more likely to flip a wolf than not. But like nothing really screams that she has to be a wolf
Asta/DK, honestly the whole confirmed BG thing really confuses me, since DK knows nothing about it, but like what does wolf!Asta gain from this? I guess he could give his partner a free town read here if they are both wolves, and almost lock him as town but like, its just as dangerous as the mason claim, and its definitely unneeded. Or Asta is a wolf and knows DK targeted him because of other mechanical information he gained from the other wolves, but I really don’t think so. Tonally speaking, Asta looks super clean, he feels like someone who just believes everything he is saying regardless of if its right or wrong, and isn’t try to push malicious in the thread. I might invoke a Sir Chris read here a bit, and say giving a wolf a public double vote is probably dangerous. Points for DK? Well for one, he is our only claimed protective, if you decide to separate manipulative and protections. I don’t really want to deep dive DK here, since I think he just town here. I think he is exactly like he was in Modern Mafia. But if anyone wants to discuss DK here, I am happy to listen
I still have not finished my thoughts on Axel/Keldeo, those will hopefully be finished by tomorrow evening
I think Vaimes post on rule of 3 has some merit, but also its definitely easily manipulated
@kcc: did you block proph? I feel like I remember you claiming that.
@silver: why do you think I need to claim? If you want to know if I did or influenced something I'll say, but I would really prefer not to claim just yet. I don't think it's necessary.
Aside: I don't think Vaimes and dk are aligned.
My fall passive ability is Dream of Certainty. When fall starts, I learn the names of two players with abilities restricted to those seasons. Those were Silver and Proph. Kind of useless, but it does confirm that Silver has a fall ability.
My winter passive ability is Dream of Naming. I learn a random ability name from Winter when Winter starts.
My spring ability is the weird one and the best one. It's the Dreams of Future. Every Night in Spring, I get the name of one non-mafia player who made an action. That person could still be 3p, but is guaranteed to not be mafia. As I hinted at strongly yesterDay, that's Killjoy. He's 100% not on the scumteam, he should not have to claim if he doesn't want to.
I gave my spring ability to Vaimes yesterDay, after I got to use it once. This means he can confirm my ability is real, and forces mafia to kill him before next Spring or risk him getting another confirmed town. The strongest potential usage of this ability next spring is having only one person take an action. Either they are confirmed town by Vaimes the next Day, they are confirmed mafia by Vaimes, or Vaimes is killed, taking away a question mark for town. If Vaimes is scum, which I very much doubt, but w/e, it forces him to tie his alignment to another person.
I used Vaimes' track to track keldeo last Night. He didn't target anyone, so his story also matches up wrt that.
The last important thing is that I think Vaimes' item made it so I can't take an action toNight. This doesn't really matter for me, because it doesn't stop my passive, but it's another roleblock action in this game, in addition to KCC, Tom, Proph and Keldeo and now Vaimes.
like no offense to him, but these kinda games just arent my thing
Vezok is confirmed town mason from Grape being dead
So probably stapled to a claimed role
Flavor wise Asta makes the most sense I think but double voter with a janitored day kill is hilariously powerful for a single role
I'm going to read Rhand for spew before I lock anything in
Most minis are a lot less mechanical than this too though, for the record
Prison Block has a unique neighbors mechanic but shouldn't be mechanically complicated, for example
hell man
Oh, I'm not disagreeing, I'm just annoyed with them.
I found this post from Rhand. The people who come out the worst from this are Keldeo and Axelrod.
I'd like Vaimes to confirm the wording on fulcrum's ability. I also kinda want to just lynch axelrod.
There's too many people who are kinda confirmed town. This is a pretty weird game.
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and I dont have anyone that I can confidently bounce my thoughs off of
Uh, ok, sorry. Let me know if there's something I can do to help, I guess?
Like, it's almost definitely not Vaimes or Proph or Whisper
Axel and KCC have complete roles that feel weird with a day kill included
Think it has to be either dkingsland or Asta (or it was Rhand and the ability didn't flip, I guess?)
There is so little paranioa this game and its actually obnoxious
"ohh new mechanical information, I believe that"
Do you think she's a wolf with Killjoy? If not why would she clear him of being the daykiller when I had him mechanically pinned?
I'm always skeptical of people who have a "alignment cop on nonmafia" type abilities because mafia already know who's not mafia and so doesn't need an ability to do it. So fulcrum could also be the daykiller.
I can't think of anyone else it might fit into unless like silver suggested it's just stapled on somewhere.
u know whats harsh is the only person that I can bounce my thoughts off of, is Vezok
maybe DK but his posts once every 3 years, and Asta is not a strong player, no offense to him
you know whats harsh, this meta surrounding me, to the point where I feel like people just think I am a troll
does that not cross your mind? tell me? Like I want to listen to everyone, but it feels like no one wants to listen to me
Why is fulcrum a town lean?
killjoy should be claiming lmao, like there is literally no ******* reason to believe that all of this mechanical information is real
So it'd have to be fulcrum/Vaimes/+1 at minimum, assuming he can?
and it really sucks
Your continued push to try to get people to townread me less has no sincerity behind it. You don't believe your assertions.
I am asking you to humor me
do a reread of Fulcrum/Vaimes/Killjoy
please?
that goes for everyone
I need someone to actually pretend that I exist so I don't go crazy
And I don't have super solid reasons for fulcrum to be town outside of her role, but I think her role is a good enough reason.
Do you agree she has to be a wolf with Vaimes if she is one?
Line, talk to me about why I'm scum, last, that's not like a gut read or bad feeling or whatever.
I have to go through your iso still, I only posted rough thoughts that I got from early interactions with Rhand
I need to finish you, proph, axel, and Keldeo
@Silver
I dont really know, like it was my original PoE in my notes before I scraped it, but I keep talking myself out of it, because clearly I cant say I am sure on what players like Keldeo/Proph/Axel will flip
I mean I will die a happy man if the team is exactly vaimes/fulcrum/Killjoy
outside Keldeo/Silver, I have micro reasons to believe other's are town
its not me not having a case, which I do, I think fulcrum is opening ******* wolfing, I think he is hard defending his two partners
I think you are being an ass to me for no reason, I think you should claim
but more so, its just me having reasons to believe others are town, even if they are small
and also a lot of me not wanting to push something so hard that still has a chance of being wrong for the health of the game
like Logically we should still be pushing in the PoE of keldeo/Proph/Axel, but I dont think thats necessarily the best for me
and if you see this as me being disingenuous, then you do you
you need to stop shading me honestly or just vote me
or "Kcc/Wisp, but Wisp feels worse"
I'm just having a hard time believing you are naturally reading me
anyways going to sleep
Stop pretending I'm scum reading you for no reason.